In regards to eating meat

[Bring4th_Austin]

I've not had a single vegan friend who didn't make some snide remark at least once as I was eating meat.

Austin, I find that hard to believe. Being that I never make snide remarks unless provoked by the meat-eater's snide remarks, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Diana said the same thing. We just don't go around making snide remarks. We just don't. Surely there are other vegans out there who don't make snide remarks. I'm incredulous that you haven't encountered any.

Believe as you wish. I've had 5 vegan friends, all who have let their tongues slip. Sure, maybe I've encountered some vegans that have not or would not say anything, but I'm talking about my friends...the people I would be eating around on a regular basis. There are noxious vegetarians and vegans, and they do leave an impact which leaves an opening for prejudice towards other vegetarians. That was the point I was trying to make, not that all vegans exhibit that behavior. But perhaps more do than you realize.

But the heart of the matter: "So the question is: WHY do they perceive vegetarians as having a 'self-proclaimed superior point of view'?"

The reasons for being vegetarian are far-reaching, but I've never been in a discussion with a vegetarian who was doing it just for health reasons. It's normally along the lines of "I think eating meat is wrong." It's a logical train of thought, in my mind, to go from "I think eating meat is wrong." "You eat meat." "Something you do is wrong, and I am right." While vegetarians may not express moral superiority, it's hard not to imagine that they don't feel morally superior because they find something you do to be immoral.

Well, we're dancing around the elephant in the room.

Do I dare say it? No, I can't. I'll catch all sorts of flack if I say it.

But there's an elephant in the room.

I think there are multiple elephants in the room here that we're both dancing around.

In this situation, they're the same thing. If I were to work actively to take away your right to eat and feed your family vegetables because millions of beings die from veggie production, picketed a vegetarian get-together accusing them of murder and hypocrisy, and formed organizations with significant financial funding to harass vegetable producers and consumers about the murder that happens in veggie fields, do you feel this is justified out of "championing the oppressed?" All I would be doing, taking this point of view, is trying to protect the plants, bugs, and other animals that are killed through veggie production. I understand that at the root of what you do is the desire to protect, but your discussion and actions are no different in the eyes of meat-eaters than the actions I described above. And if you feel that your actions would be more justified than someone doing these things to vegetarians, juxtapose that against why someone may view vegetarians as feeling morally superior.

The outcome might be the same, but the motivation is different.

You are focused on the outcome. I am referring to the motivation.

We aren't motivated by trying to control others. We are motivated by the desire to champion the oppressed.

That is the point.

I think you have misunderstood my point then. In the scenario, I would not be motivated by trying to control others. I would be motivated by a desire to champion what I personally view as the oppressed (the plants, bugs, and other animal victims of production-scale agriculture/horticulture).

The goal is to awaken people to the horrors of the slaughterhouse, so that they willingly want to reduce suffering, just as many people willingly have quit oppressing humans. We shouldn't need laws to accomplish that. No one is suggesting that we go about this via legislation. No one is suggesting that anyone be 'controlled' legally. We're just trying to inform and educate.

Again, same analogy. The goal would be to awaken people of the horrors of the produce farm so that they willingly want to reduce suffering (by whatever means). Not suggesting that anyone do any of those things you would consider controlling, but rather be just as adamant and forward about how a vegetarian diet also results in death and suffering as vegetarian activists are about a meat-eating diet. Literally, tit-for-tat. And I'm not trying to make any grand point here, just trying to help you see it from the opposing viewpoint of this discussion as you had asked earlier for insight into the mind-set. I'm not suggesting anyone do any of these things.

Perhaps, when you say that you donate towards animal welfare groups, I misunderstood. The two organizations that come to mind are PETA and the Humane Society, so I had assumed it was one or both of those. PETA is noxious and imposing in their message, and the Humane Society does lobby in attempts to sway legislatures towards animal welfare. However (to drive my point home that I was simply painting a scenario for you), I stand with the Humane Society (I sit on the State Agriculture Council for the HSUS NC), mainly because they have recently been outspoken about their support for sustainable and humane farming as an alternative production system for a meat-eating diet. They don't wish the world to be vegetarian, they simply want to end the suffering and inhumane conditions of animals (defining suffering of farm animals is something we've already danced around about). They are changing the direction of their legislative efforts to create a more competitive and realistic market for small farmers. Using legislation can be a tricky monster, as you pointed out with your slavery question.

[Shemaya]

I think it's off to pranayama for me

[drifting pages]

I wish we listened to our innate wisdom for a lot of things beside food, even if said wisdom did not match with others. I sometimes fail to follow my guidance

[Diana]

How about if each were to learn how to listen to the innate wisdom of their bodies as regards the appropriateness of certain foods?

I agree. However, we are more than just bodies. We are emotional, mental, and spiritual beings as well. Perhaps that's what you meant?--to listen to your whole being?

---

I think it's off to pranayama for me

If I'm not mistaken, most yogis are vegetarians.

[Shemaya]

I think it's off to pranayama for me

If I'm not mistaken, most yogis are vegetarians.

yes, that's been discussed previously I'm pretty sure, the yogic practice of non-violence ahimsa. Which is why many yogi's are vegetarian, and rarely yogi's can live just on the air they breathe and the energy of the sun without actually eating food.

I would surmise that when 4D is fully active we will no longer need food as we do now.

[Monica]

Sweethearts, there is nothing moral about eating. Period. Fact.

I don't care for the word moral. I think ethical is a better word in this context.

There is a lot that is ethical/unethical about eating.

---

How about if each were to learn how to listen to the innate wisdom of their bodies as regards the appropriateness of certain foods?

The body must first be cleansed of residual toxins, in order to give its wisdom. Otherwise, what we think is 'wisdom' may actually be the addictions talking.

Case in point: Is the body sharing its innate wisdom when it asks for a cigarette?

[BrownEye]

I have a tail now.

I have felt a sensation of heat movement, hitting me in the right rear buttock. Really "different" feelng of heat. After applying attention i find the source to be about six inches outside of my body. While i thought it may be chakra related my self tells me it is kundalini.

I tossed my issue at a few friends to pinpoint and they all found kundalini as well.

Further questions brought up diet as part of the issue. Beyond that i find that it is also reason to not let it rise. I do not need to change my diet, but i DO need to eat less.

So it looks like green food has a huge impact on our energy systems. I am not in the least interested in kundalini, but now must pay attention to what may happen.

[Unbound]

Maybe it's the Kundabuffer?

http://gnosticteachings.org/books-by-sam...organ.html

[BrownEye]

The body must first be cleansed of residual toxins, in order to give its wisdom. Otherwise, what we think is 'wisdom' may actually be the addictions talking.

Technically it is possible for toxins themself to "talk" to us.

In a reality of polarities we do not pay much attention to what polarity we structure our bodies with on an elemental level. We just assume that our body is fully capable of transmuting.

[Monica]

Believe as you wish.

I'm not saying I don't believe you. I was just incredulous.

I've had 5 vegan friends, all who have let their tongues slip. Sure, maybe I've encountered some vegans that have not or would not say anything, but I'm talking about my friends...the people I would be eating around on a regular basis.

Ah, that explains it! You had mentioned supplying organic meats to former vegetarians/vegans, so I assumed you were referring to dozens of people over the years. Five isn't a very big sample size, statistically speaking.

There are noxious vegetarians and vegans, and they do leave an impact which leaves an opening for prejudice towards other vegetarians. That was the point I was trying to make, not that all vegans exhibit that behavior. But perhaps more do than you realize.

There are obnoxious people found in every walk of life.

I think there are multiple elephants in the room here that we're both dancing around.

We've already exposed some of them in this thread.

I think you have misunderstood my point then. In the scenario, I would not be motivated by trying to control others. I would be motivated by a desire to champion what I personally view as the oppressed (the plants, bugs, and other animal victims of production-scale agriculture/horticulture).

I suspect this is one of your perceived elephants. We've been down that road, and I think the argument carries zero weight.

Not suggesting that anyone do any of those things you would consider controlling, but rather be just as adamant and forward about how a vegetarian diet also results in death and suffering as vegetarian activists are about a meat-eating diet. Literally, tit-for-tat.

I don't think it's a good analogy because it would never happen, at least not until everyone is a vegetarian and then they take on the next level of compassionate living. You know as well as I do that even the most hardcore among us would find such a movement absurd. So respectfully, it really does seem like an effort to be tit-for-tat, without any actual substance.

And I'm not trying to make any grand point here, just trying to help you see it from the opposing viewpoint of this discussion as you had asked earlier for insight into the mind-set. I'm not suggesting anyone do any of these things.

Because no one really would do those things, which is precisely my point. The argument falls apart because it's not plausible. I don't see it as an opposing viewpoint at all.

An opposing viewpoint would be to prove that animals don't suffer and there is no need for compassion. That is the opposing viewpoint. And it can't be done.

Perhaps, when you say that you donate towards animal welfare groups, I misunderstood. The two organizations that come to mind are PETA and the Humane Society, so I had assumed it was one or both of those. PETA is noxious and imposing in their message, and the Humane Society does lobby in attempts to sway legislatures towards animal welfare. However (to drive my point home that I was simply painting a scenario for you), I stand with the Humane Society (I sit on the State Agriculture Council for the HSUS NC), mainly because they have recently been outspoken about their support for sustainable and humane farming as an alternative production system for a meat-eating diet. They don't wish the world to be vegetarian, they simply want to end the suffering and inhumane conditions of animals (defining suffering of farm animals is something we've already danced around about). They are changing the direction of their legislative efforts to create a more competitive and realistic market for small farmers. Using legislation can be a tricky monster, as you pointed out with your slavery question.

I'm not trying to change legislation. As with the abortion issue, that wouldn't work anyway.

I support both, actually. Both have their place. PETA is much more 'in your face' and gets more of a reaction, but they're effective. At this late stage of the game, even that isn't enough, sadly.

[3DMonkey]

Sweethearts, there is nothing moral about eating. Period. Fact.

Love to all s

And neither ethical. Nothing wrong or right. It's just food.

[Monica]

yes, that's been discussed previously I'm pretty sure, the yogic practice of non-violence ahimsa. Which is why many yogi's are vegetarian, and rarely yogi's can live just on the air they breathe and the energy of the sun without actually eating food.

I would surmise that when 4D is fully active we will no longer need food as we do now.

Lol, yes, a living broth, according to Ra. And we have discussed previously, about going from Point A (eating at McDonald's) to Point B (consuming a living broth).

[Plenum]

why do people get so angry in this thread?

I find myself GETTING angry.

[Monica]

And neither ethical. Nothing wrong or right. It's just food.

I invite you to listen to last week's radio show. Carla talked about the concept of 'right and wrong' while in 3D. She didn't talk about food, but did talk about right and wrong.

[Pablísimo]

Pardon my interruption here, folks. I just wanted to take a moment to express my gratitude and appreciation for all the fine souls that have participated in this thread.

THANKS EVERYBODY!!!

Though of course I have an opinion, and a strong one at that, on diet, I am genuinely grateful for the thoughtful comments shared in this long thread by both vegetarian and meat eating participants.

As we have explored our individual and group distortions through these posts, there were some moments that were very emotionally charged. I know that can be difficult to read through and has caused some discomfort for some, myself included. And yet it is precisely those emotionally charged moments that have taught me the most. It's catalyst alright!

However, I feel that this thread has been ENORMOUSLY valuable to myself and many others. Diet in the spiritual context IS an important topic, and I directly credit this thread with greatly expanding my own perspective. I honestly DO feel that our food choices are a moral and ethical issue, as with many of our other choices from the mundane to the magical.

I am a vegetarian now, have been for many years, and have every intention of remaining so. However, I realize now that previous to this thread my viewpoint was rather simplistic. The choice to "go veg" really seemed so obvious and congruent with the STO path that I was absolutely shocked that all 'evolved people' didn't see it that way. It turns out that there were many issues and attitudes I simply hadn't considered and explored fully. That I once thought it was so simple is an indication of my ignorance at the time. It clearly is NOT, and I realize that now.

Never before was I given the opportunity to hear thoughtful explanations and perspectives from what was (to me at the time) an oxymoron -- spiritually AWARE people who eat meat. Some of the posts by meat eaters were really articulate, thoughtful, and clear. This caused me to stop using vegetarianism unconsciously as a spiritual litmus test. I have received plenty of taunts and bizarre attacks from meat eaters in my day, but not until I read this thread did I actually hear any coherent, thoughtful and spiritual explanations from those with an opposing view, just like Austin and Tenet are doing now. This more balanced perspective has greatly expanded my compassion towards other-selves and no longer is diet a point of contention for me in regards to how I view other-selves. I'm grateful to you meat eaters out there who took the time to explain their perspective here. Seriously, thank you!

At the same time, my own views were nourished, enriched, and expanded by the explanations and input from other vegetarians who had clearly given these matters more consideration than I had. I cannot believe the incredible wisdom shared here from other vegetarians (I'm lookin' at you Diana & Monica!). I have never had the honor of being among such enlightened folks before, on both sides of the question. I feel more at peace with my own dietary choice and my convictions of the rightness of the path I am on -- for me -- are stronger than they have ever been. I'm a more committed vegetarian than I ever have been, thanks to that input, and yet I'm more accepting and tolerant of those who disagree with my choice. Two seemingly paradoxical things and both from the comments given in this one thread! Wow, you guys and gals rock my world.

Brothers and Sisters, no matter where you stand on the issue -- THANK YOU. I do not judge you for your choices and I hope that you will not judge me for mine. The totality of our Being, rather than our views or choices on one single topic is who we really are, and I am sincerely trying to find the balance of honoring my own convictions on vegetarianism and yet respecting those who disagree. Like it or not, the issue is just not a simple one by any means and, after all, we're ALL aspects of the One Creator. We each must follow our own Path.

This thread has massively, and I mean MASSIVELY, increased my Compassion, my Discernment, and Wisdom on a complex and multi-layered issue.

THANK YOU FOR THIS ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY TO GROW AND LEARN THROUGH THIS THREAD. THANK YOU FOR SHARING, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE QUESTION, YOUR HEARTFELT THOUGHTS.



THANK YOU ALL!!


Love to all

[Monica]

why do people get so angry in this thread?

I find myself GETTING angry.

That's a very good question!

Poll: Who is feeling angry when they read this thread?

Y or N

Y = yes, angry
N = no, not angry

Me: N

[Ankh]

I have a tail now.

I have felt a sensation of heat movement, hitting me in the right rear buttock. Really "different" feelng of heat. After applying attention i find the source to be about six inches outside of my body. While i thought it may be chakra related my self tells me it is kundalini.

I tossed my issue at a few friends to pinpoint and they all found kundalini as well.

Further questions brought up diet as part of the issue. Beyond that i find that it is also reason to not let it rise. I do not need to change my diet, but i DO need to eat less.

So it looks like green food has a huge impact on our energy systems. I am not in the least interested in kundalini, but now must pay attention to what may happen.

Hey there! I have been having abnormal heat sensation in my spine and back for couple of days now. It begins in that tail bone and goes up through the spine to solar plexus area. It burns and spreads out. I now pay attention to it too, as something tells me that it *might* be "kundalini". I am addressing my previous lack of the respect for the self in dietary issues among many things, but also find that most of the importance is in the complete picture as possible, and among many things it involves working with the self, addressing issues and catalysts met in the daily life and activities, and try to be attentive to acceptance of the complete self. But speaking of dietary issues, in my case, this energy rising occured when I addressed the self respect by starting to eat more. Anyway, good luck to you! : )

[Pablísimo]

Me: N

(but that N is for 'not any more!'). Once I had processed my own inner distortions and catalyst this thread provoked in me, the emotional charge left. Now I never get angry reading this thread.

Now, I am edified and at peace. This is a good conversation and very helpful if we can all remember to just chill out a little bit and stay respectful.

If something makes you uncomfortable, it is an opportunity to explore that inside yourself.

It helped me anyway.

Love to all

[yossarian]

Monica, I think your last post was kind of mean, ie. "hurtful". I eat meat, probably mostly because I am "weak-willed" (by another's judgement perhaps), but I have had many other battles to fight, and this is one more that I haven't chosen to take on this lifetime.

---

I don't think I've ever been "preached to" by vegetarians. The very few I have met in person have been humble and great people, but I am finding reading this particular thread catalyzing, ie. invoking frustration and anger in me because I understand that unless you are completely off the grid and not participating in modern day society, you are supporting an oppressive societal system in some way. So as awakened beings, we are all basically cognitively dissonant on some level because we are living here in 3D.

But at any rate, it's not going to convince anyone to "change their ways" of conditioned and cultural food choices by implying that they are "less" than yourself in any way (weak-willed, jealous,cognitively dissonant)

Every day I fill my pets food bowl, I do so with love and care for them....I'm am not thinking of the factory-farm industry that I am supporting by purchasing pet food.

Same thing when I put gas in my car or or buy clothing from Target. We live in vast oppressive matrix/system that basically causes harm to those who are "weak" by the stronger. I could choose any number of causes if I was called to activism to advocate for the oppressed.

I am just saying that I find reading this thread not helpful at all in convincing me that I should not eat meat. The cognitive dissonance not only goes both ways, but is very deeply embedded in the matrix.

Let's analyze your emotional reaction in comparison to my reaction.

I'm a meat eater. I'm actually on a low carb diet right now and eat ridiculous amounts of meat. Truth is, I'm embarrassed to admit this because some people on this forum remember me as a vegan and even a raw food vegan. But life circumstances change and now I'm on an animal-heavy diet.

Why don't I feel defensive when I read Monica's post?

I can read this thread and I really feel very little, just a bit of sadness because some part of me would like to get back to vegism. I certainly don't feel accused or hurt or offended or defensive. I recognize clearly that I'm eating animal corpses and that some of them aren't even treated well.

I feel like I have a unique perspective on these social dynamics, both because I've extensively studied psychology and because I'm been on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion it is the people who have not owned up to the horror and the reality of the food system that have these defensive reactions. The earth is an inherently brutal and disgusting place packed with misery and suffering. Many people seem to be raised on an illusion of idyllic nature, peaceful and kind. But it's so not. The nature of life on earth is just inherently disgusting, cruel, horrific.

I've watched every single nature show made by David Attenborough. This involves a direct observation of life in every Earth context. Land, sea, air. He even studies the fungus that lives inside rocks.

None of it exhibits any nobility at all. It's brutal. There is nothing but the indifferent striving of nature to survive, the will to power of every organism. From a certain vantage point you can view the wide scale adaptive evolutionary process whereby life seems to increase itself, but it's still horrific.

I've come to they conclusion that the Earth plane is simply horrific to our spiritual natures. I've really deeply owned up to the brutality and dog eat dog nature of the physical plane. This includes owning up to the brutality and indifference of the human species, a meat based life form that unconsciously strives to increase itself and shies away from no horror.

This entire planet is a holocaust. Someone describes the body of a fat person as a graveyard for animals. Yes, precisely. And the planet itself is also a graveyard for countless billions of life forms, all of whom ultimately meet painful ends.

Anyway my point is just that I'm a meat eater who sees my self as part of the great horror called physical existence. I pragmatically justify my own atrocities but I don't devalue the seriousness or severity of my sins. I'm a sinner who has seen the Holy Spirit yet remained flesh, a sinner who has acknowledged tht Jesus is Lord but still I remain in sin.

All I'm saying is that despite being a meat eater I don't feel defensive and I'm also not going to change my habits anytime soon. I also recognize the horror of my situation. When I see other meat eaters defend themselves and get emotional reactions to non-accusatory statements by veggies I just see people who are trying to keep an illusion alive--the illusion that they arent hurting anyone by eating meat, but also the illusion that the Earth is a nice place and that life is mostly sunshine and rainbows. The illusion that we don't live in one of the planes of Hell. The illusion that God is compassionate but not sadistic. If God is one then he must be the other. If God is omnipotent then he is to blame for all the horror--and compassion is just another mask he puts on as part of a game. He takes off his sadist psychopath mask and puts on a compassionate Buddha mask. The people who react to vegetarians are people who don't want to recognize that God is the one who tortures them and that they themselves are torturers. As above, so below.

[Monica]

Me: N

(but that N is for 'not any more!'). Once I had processed my own inner distortions and catalyst this thread provoked in me, the emotional charge left. Now I never get angry reading this thread.

Now, I am edified and at peace. This is a good conversation and very helpful if we can all remember to just chill out a little bit and stay respectful.

If something makes you uncomfortable, it is an opportunity to explore that inside yourself.

It helped me anyway.

Love to all

Ditto for me.

PS. You ROCK, Pablisimo!

[Plenum]

I'm a meat eater. I'm actually on a low carb diet right now and eat ridiculous amounts of meat. Truth is, I'm embarrassed to admit this because some people on this forum remember me as a vegan and even a raw food vegan. But life circumstances change and now I'm on an animal-heavy diet.

how much meat do you eat?

[Monica]

Let's analyze your emotional reaction in comparison to my reaction.

I'm a meat eater. I'm actually on a low carb diet right now and eat ridiculous amounts of meat. Truth is, I'm embarrassed to admit this because some people on this forum remember me as a vegan and even a raw food vegan. But life circumstances change and now I'm on an animal-heavy diet.

Why don't I feel defensive when I read Monica's post?

I can read this thread and I really feel very little, just a bit of sadness because some part of me would like to get back to vegism. I certainly don't feel accused or hurt or offended or defensive. I recognize clearly that I'm eating animal corpses and that some of them aren't even treated well.

I feel like I have a unique perspective on these social dynamics, both because I've extensively studied psychology and because I'm been on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion it is the people who have not owned up to the horror and the reality of the food system that have these defensive reactions. The earth is an inherently brutal and disgusting place packed with misery and suffering. Many people seem to be raised on an illusion of idyllic nature, peaceful and kind. But it's so not. The nature of life on earth is just inherently disgusting, cruel, horrific.

I've watched every single nature show made by David Attenborough. This involves a direct observation of life in every Earth context. Land, sea, air. He even studies the fungus that lives inside rocks.

None of it exhibits any nobility at all. It's brutal. There is nothing but the indifferent striving of nature to survive, the will to power of every organism. From a certain vantage point you can view the wide scale adaptive evolutionary process whereby life seems to increase itself, but it's still horrific.

I've come to they conclusion that the Earth plane is simply horrific to our spiritual natures. I've really deeply owned up to the brutality and dog eat dog nature of the physical plane. This includes owning up to the brutality and indifference of the human species, a meat based life form that unconsciously strives to increase itself and shies away from no horror.

This entire planet is a holocaust. Someone describes the body of a fat person as a graveyard for animals. Yes, precisely. And the planet itself is also a graveyard for countless billions of life forms, all of whom ultimately meet painful ends.

Anyway my point is just that I'm a meat eater who sees my self as part of the great horror called physical existence. I pragmatically justify my own atrocities but I don't devalue the seriousness or severity of my sins. I'm a sinner who has seen the Holy Spirit yet remained flesh, a sinner who has acknowledged tht Jesus is Lord but still I remain in sin.

All I'm saying is that despite being a meat eater I don't feel defensive and I'm also not going to change my habits anytime soon. I also recognize the horror of my situation. When I see other meat eaters defend themselves and get emotional reactions to non-accusatory statements by veggies I just see people who are trying to keep an illusion alive--the illusion that they arent hurting anyone by eating meat, but also the illusion that the Earth is a nice place and that life is mostly sunshine and rainbows. The illusion that we don't live in one of the planes of Hell. The illusion that God is compassionate but not sadistic. If God is one then he must be the other. If God is omnipotent then he is to blame for all the horror--and compassion is just another mask he puts on as part of a game. He takes off his sadist psychopath mask and puts on a compassionate Buddha mask. The people who react to vegetarians are people who don't want to recognize that God is the one who tortures them and that they themselves are torturers. As above, so below.

WOW yossarian, PROFOUND!

[BrownEye]

why do people get so angry in this thread?

I find myself GETTING angry.

My eyes are watering from laughing at your response.
You guys get angry and I'm over here trying to learn to wag my tail.

---

But speaking of dietary issues, in my case, this energy rising occured when I addressed the self respect by starting to eat more.

I seem to be eating more, but self instructs that i need to fast before there is safety in full activation. So there is activity, but the autonomous system will not allow rising until my situation allows me to fast.

[Shemaya]

Pickle, I am so jealous of your tail. Unless it's the kunda-thingy that eternal One mentioned.
O.M.G.

yossarian, completely agree, the world as it is sucks.

[BrownEye]

That gnostic page had almost nothing pertaining to reality.


Modern gnosticism is hijacked in the same way as orthodox christianity.

"Buffer" is british slang i guess.

---

http://www.adishakti.org/subtle_system/m...chakra.htm
Off topic a bit.

But consider, what use is a tail on a bipedal entity? Normally counterbalance.

[Monica]

Never before was I given the opportunity to hear thoughtful explanations and perspectives from what was (to me at the time) an oxymoron -- spiritually AWARE people who eat meat. Some of the posts by meat eaters were really articulate, thoughtful, and clear. This caused me to stop using vegetarianism unconsciously as a spiritual litmus test. I have received plenty of taunts and bizarre attacks from meat eaters in my day, but not until I read this thread did I actually hear any coherent, thoughtful and spiritual explanations from those with an opposing view, just like Austin and Tenet are doing now. This more balanced perspective has greatly expanded my compassion towards other-selves and no longer is diet a point of contention for me in regards to how I view other-selves. I'm grateful to you meat eaters out there who took the time to explain their perspective here. Seriously, thank you!

At the same time, my own views were nourished, enriched, and expanded by the explanations and input from other vegetarians who had clearly given these matters more consideration than I had. I cannot believe the incredible wisdom shared here from other vegetarians (I'm lookin' at you Diana & Monica!). I have never had the honor of being among such enlightened folks before, on both sides of the question. I feel more at peace with my own dietary choice and my convictions of the rightness of the path I am on -- for me -- are stronger than they have ever been. I'm a more committed vegetarian than I ever have been, thanks to that input, and yet I'm more accepting and tolerant of those who disagree with my choice. Two seemingly paradoxical things and both from the comments given in this one thread! Wow, you guys and gals rock my world.

Pablisimo, thanks so much for sharing how this discussion has helped you develop more understanding and compassion for those with views different from your own; in this case, those who eat meat.

I wonder if the converse is also true? Meateaters, have any of you gained more understanding and compassion towards the vegetarians, as a result of this discussion?

[Ankh]

But speaking of dietary issues, in my case, this energy rising occured when I addressed the self respect by starting to eat more.

I seem to be eating more, but self instructs that i need to fast before there is safety in full activation. So there is activity, but the autonomous system will not allow rising until my situation allows me to fast.

Yeah, then it's important to listen to the self. There was a time, when I seemed to channel a lot of energies through my body, in the past, and at that time - I ate and ate, as it seemed to me. Then I went back to my usual habit, and that is to eat way too little, sometimes rediciously too little. But as you said, if the self instructs something - then you'd better to listen and address it. Good luck with your fasting and the energy rising! =)

[BrownEye]

Meateaters, have any of you gained more understanding and compassion towards the vegetarians, as a result of this discussion?

When i was a meat eater i thought vegetarians tasted good.

[Tenet Nosce]

I agree. However, we are more than just bodies. We are emotional, mental, and spiritual beings as well. Perhaps that's what you meant?--to listen to your whole being?

I dunno. I will have to ponder that more. Seems to me like there is too much listening to the mental body (following one of ten thousand theories on food) or the emotional body (I am going to eat this crap because I am depressed, etc).

---

The body must first be cleansed of residual toxins, in order to give its wisdom. Otherwise, what we think is 'wisdom' may actually be the addictions talking.

True. But it isn't necessarily that meat=toxins or that veggies=clean. As you well know.

Case in point: Is the body sharing its innate wisdom when it asks for a cigarette?

Well... actually! There are chemicals in tobacco (along with coffee and cacao) called beta-carbolines which play an important role in the maintenance of endogenous tryptamines like DMT... but that is a whole 'nother thread. (Think shamanic use of tobacco.) For the purposes of this thread... is it really the physical body that craves the cigarette? Or is it one of the other bodies?

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Lol, yes, a living broth, according to Ra.

Sounds like ferments!

[yossarian]

That gnostic page had almost nothing pertaining to reality.


Modern gnosticism is hijacked in the same way as orthodox christianity.

"Buffer" is british slang i guess.

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http://www.adishakti.org/subtle_system/m...chakra.htm
Off topic a bit.

But consider, what use is a tail on a bipedal entity? Normally counterbalance.

edit: nevermind, I found it