Law of One Channeling

[Shin'Ar]

yeah yeah, I am aware that you know that I know exactly what you mean with your blah blahs, as I have seen them very intricately set into your other posts.

I meant the Ra quotes you used above. i didnt see their relevance to the discussion and thought you could elaborate.

What I understand from those quotes you are using Ra is trying to tell us that all communication between fields is two way, thus that is what they mean bu learn/teaching and teach/learning. We must realize that Higher Beings do not communicate the same way that we do, and that when we interact with them we do via fields of consciousness that connect the way that all fields of consciousness are designed. This is that sacred Space that I always refer to.

In that space of connection between fields communication is by design two way, which means that the experiences, information, understanding and ability of each are present within the sharing. And the lower of the two may not be able to comprehend or pass on some of the higher aspects of that interaction. It also means that there are aspects of the lower that may also inhibit certain opportunities for the Higher to achieve.

Therefore what Ra is trying to tell us is that Carla's lower state of being becomes a hindrance to some of their ability to interact with her.

this is common throughout all two way interaction between sharing fields of consciousness.

---

The Consciousness that was Christ showing us the way. Not the way that ended up being taught through the Romans, but the way that all of the Ancient masters had always taught. Via the astral gate, the divine connection, the sacred geometry.

Thank you for this Tenet, by the way. I know it was meant for me and why you have been subtly peeking through this doorway.

---

The point is simply that the Ra material could not have been distorted by any concepts of the instrument including her Christianity.

Sorry Valtor but I think it means the exact opposite as I just posted above. If it doesn't , than it should.
.

[Patrick]

The point is simply that the Ra material could not have been distorted by any concepts of the instrument including her Christianity.

Sorry Valtor but I think it means the exact opposite as I just posted above. If it doesn't , than it should.
.

Well I agree somewhat. But not in the sense that the instrument distorted the material, but in the sense that we all see what we want to see.

Like I said before, imho all of us creates our own Truth and I know that you do not agree with this view. So you are looking at things in a different way than I do.

Which is perfectly fine and happens to fit with my opinion that Truth is subjective.

[Tenet Nosce]

The Consciousness that was Christ showing us the way. Not the way that ended up being taught through the Romans, but the way that all of the Ancient masters had always taught. Via the astral gate, the divine connection, the sacred geometry.

According to my understanding- most of what we now know of as "Christianity" is a re-casting of Jesus' teachings through the Jewish paradigm by Paul, and in many cases resulted in a total reversal of the teachings.

[Shin'Ar]

The Consciousness that was Christ showing us the way. Not the way that ended up being taught through the Romans, but the way that all of the Ancient masters had always taught. Via the astral gate, the divine connection, the sacred geometry.

According to my understanding- most of what we now know of as "Christianity" is a re-casting of Jesus' teachings through the Jewish paradigm by Paul, and in many cases resulted in a total reversal of the teachings.

Re-casting is putting it mildly for one who has such disdain for diplomacy Tenet, lol.

And it wasn't just the Jewish corruption. The Roman authority and the resulting Papal influences had a great deal to do with the corruption of Christ's teachings.

Personally, I believe as the Templars did. That Jesus was a Johannite/Mandean teaching the same gnostic understandings of the Ancients. Something that did not sit well with the Roman authority or the pope or succeeding Chrsitianity.

[Tenet Nosce]

There are no mistakes, but there are sure surprises, right?

In the ultimate sense, there are no mistakes under the Law of One. And yet:

Yahweh was of the Confederation but was mistaken in its attempts to aid.

Try reading the word in a different way... mis - take. As in... they attempted to communicate with earthlings, but their messages were mis - taken by them.

I used to think so. I blamed humanity, and wondered why the heck Ra is still here serving our ungrateful mass, that not only perverted what they had to offer, but also now accusing them for messing this up. I don't think in these lines anymore, but want to be honest with you.

Then I'm curious to know... if it isn't Ra's responsibility, and it isn't humanity's responsibility... then whose responsibility is it? Ra says...

we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the Law of One.

Where is the imbalance of compassion and wisdom stated? If you look at these quotes again, and read it carefully, here is what I see:

My sister, what we "see" and what is there, are often two different things. Might I make a gentle suggestion? We have been provided with a most excellent search tool at www.lawofone.info. When you have questions such as these, why not avail yourself of this tool before entering into debate/discussion in a thread? Is there perhaps a fear or unwillingness about "seeing" something different from what you want to believe?

Do you read the imbalance of compassion and wisdom into this and that other quote that you've provided, or is there another quote where they directly state that it was imbalance between love and wisdom?

There is nothing to "read into it". Ra's view is right there in black and white. Here are some quotes for a search for the terms wisdom, compassion, and balance.

On the other hand, however, you are correct in your assumption that the green ray response is not as refined as that which has been imbued with wisdom. This wisdom enables the entity to appreciate its contributions to the planetary consciousness by the quality of its being without regard to activity or behavior which expects results upon visible planes.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

We seek now without polarity. Thus we do not invoke any power from without, for our search has become internalized as we become light/love and love/light. These are the balances we seek, the balances between compassion and wisdom which more and more allow our understanding of experience to be informed that we may come closer to the unity with the One Creator which we so joyfully seek.

When it is perceived that universal love has been achieved the next balancing may or may not be wisdom. If the adept is balancing manifestations it is indeed appropriate to balance universal love and wisdom. If the balancing is of mind or spirit there are many subtleties to which the adept may give careful consideration. Love and wisdom, like love and light, are not black and white, shall we say, but faces of the same coin, if you will. Therefore, it is not, in all cases, that balancing consists of a movement from compassion to wisdom.

As we have said, this instrument, feeling that it lacked compassion to balance wisdom, chose an incarnative experience whereby it was of necessity placed in situations of accepting self in the absence of other-selves’ acceptance and the acceptance of other-self without expecting a return or energy transfer.

Next, here are some quotes for a search for the terms love, wisdom, and balance.

In the streamings reaching your planet at this time, these understandings and disciplines have to do with the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions.

When these natural functions may be observed in the daily life they may be examined in order that the love of self and love of other-self versus the wisdom regarding the use of natural functions may be observed. There are many fantasies and stray thoughts which may be examined in most of your peoples in this balancing process.

Equally to be balanced is the withdrawal from the need for these natural functions with regard to other-self. On the one hand there is an excess of love. It must be determined whether this is love of self or other-self or both. On the other hand there is an over-balance towards wisdom.

It is well to know the body complex so that it is an ally, balanced and ready to be clearly used as a tool, for each bodily function may be used in higher and higher, if you will, complexes of energy with other-self. No matter what the behavior, the important balancing is the understanding of each interaction on this level with other-selves so that whether the balance may be love/wisdom or wisdom/love, the other-self is seen by the self in a balanced configuration and the self is thus freed for further work.

However, the balancing of sensation has to do with an analysis of the sensation with especial respect to any unbalanced leaning between the love and the wisdom or the positive and the negative.

The three aspects of the magical personality, power, love, and wisdom, are so called in order that attention be paid to each aspect in developing the basic tool of the adept; that is, its self. It is by no means a personality of three aspects. It is a being of unity, a being of sixth density, and equivalent to what you call your Higher Self and at the same time is a personality enormously rich in variety of experience and subtlety of emotion.

The three aspects are given that the neophyte not abuse the tools of its trade but rather approach those tools balanced in the center of love and wisdom and thus seeking power in order to serve.

Here is my view: in the above they are talking about UFO technology, and then adding that there were many other certain types of aid from Confederation, that are now seen as a folly certain *type of aid*. I interpret it as it is things like initiations, mummifications, nuclear and UFO technology etc, that are now seen to be that kind of aid that has proven to be *unhelpful to increase the Harvest*. I can explain myself and how I think in regards to that other quote too, that you've posted, *if* you are interested. But would you like to explain how you think? What makes you to state that you see an imbalance between love and wisdom?

I agree with you insofar as the forms which the aid had taken- and would add many more. However, the imbalance does not lie within the form, but the intention.

As far as "how I think"- I feel it to be somewhat irrelevant to this discussion which is about what -Ra- thinks. All I am doing is parroting their words.

Wise approach and I understand it too, Tenet. I feel strong catalysts when someone totally reverses what is actually said. Some members are real experts in doing that, and present me invaluable catalysts in learning this difficult lesson.

Yes- and I think it is a great example of what I am talking about. Each time I come across this phenomenon, I actually go back to the material and investigate for myself what it actually says. This results in the acquisition of an even deeper understanding and appreciation for the material, and for that result I am grateful to those who would twist Ra's words to suit their own ends.

However- this result does not reverse the folly of twisting Ra's words in the first place. It doesn't undo the confusion which may have resulted in the minds of others who come across a distorted interpretation of Ra's words, and then use that to reinforce their own distortions, and then propagate them to others through continued discussion in other threads.

I invite you to ponder this, my sister, for often times when others are twisting Ra's words they are doing it out of a perceived need to be "more loving".

There was an alteration of the bodies when marsians were transferred to this planet, and the genes from their Guardians, the Confederation group that was called Yahweh, was added to these new bodies. What I remember it said in the material is that their senses and intellect was sharpened among other things.

Yes, alterations were done. But on more than one occasion. The information of which you speak can be found in a lawofone.info search for "Anak".

Not incidentally- scientists have recently confirmed that the DNA of Homo sapiens includes some gene fragments from other closely related species. Now, of course, because these scientists don't believe that this could have been the result of genetic engineering, they are promoting this as a result of interspecies mating. This in spite of what anybody who has taken an Intro to Genetics course would/should know...
that interspecies mating results in the transfer of entire genes, not gene fragments. Again- such is the power of our biases in seeing "what we want to see". The evidence is right there in their faces, but they fail to see the glaring contradiction in their distorted interpretation of it.

I think that the Free Will is the main reason, whether people choose the folly love or not. We have to preserve it, and as soon as everybody here have made that choice, or died, there will be differences.

In my fallible opinion, people choose loving folly for two reasons:

The first being collective amnesia about the events which transpired back in the Age of Taurus.

The second being that the pervasiveness of loving folly in our societies precludes most people from having to accept responsibility for the mis-takes which result from these actions. The thought process being- who can be faulted for being too loving?

Indeed, there is no fault in being "too loving". The fault is in failing to balance that love with the wisdom necessary to create the desired result. Instead- when most of these efforts fail people arrive at the false conclusion that they just weren't "loving enough" and so the result is an increase in the distortion, rather than the balancing which is necessary. If the balancing were undertaken in earnest- people would find the power necessary to manifest their loving intentions.

The greater the love, the greater the need to balance it with wisdom in order to create the desired result.

---

That Jesus was a Johannite/Mandean teaching the same gnostic understandings of the Ancients. Something that did not sit well with the Roman authority or the pope or succeeding Chrsitianity.

What do you mean by "Mandean"? Is there a connection to Mendes?

[Unbound]

Mandeism and Manichaeism were early Gnostics, heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism. I have a book with the Dead Sea Scrolls and nag Hammadi Library scripts and a number of them are related to these two.

A guy I met who had gone through Christian religious studies called them "ancient scientology" aha

[Ankh]

yeah yeah, I am aware that you know that I know exactly what you mean with your blah blahs, as I have seen them very intricately set into your other posts.

What I meant with "blah-blah-blah" in my post is quotes and other sayings in between those two paragraphs that I posted as a response to your question to me in your previous post. The question in your post was what my point with my post was. I posted the gist of my post highlightning that point out for you.

In the future, I would prefer a communication where we don't assume what the other one knows. It might happen that if you continue assuming that, I will learn this catalyst eventually and then will not respond to these assumptions anymore by any posts. I am looking forward for mastering this difficult lesson. Until then - thank you for these catalysts, brother.

I meant the Ra quotes you used above. i didnt see their relevance to the discussion and thought you could elaborate.

I used three Ra quotes, which one did you mean?

[Shin'Ar]

yeah yeah, I am aware that you know that I know exactly what you mean with your blah blahs, as I have seen them very intricately set into your other posts.

What I meant with "blah-blah-blah" in my post is quotes and other sayings in between those two paragraphs that I posted as a response to your question to me in your previous post. The question in your post was what my point with my post was. I posted the gist of my post highlighting that point out for you.

In the future, I would prefer a communication where we don't assume what the other one knows. It might happen that if you continue assuming that, I will learn this catalyst eventually and then will not respond to these assumptions anymore by any posts. I am looking forward for mastering this difficult lesson. Until then - thank you for these catalysts, brother.

I meant the Ra quotes you used above. i didnt see their relevance to the discussion and thought you could elaborate.

I used three Ra quotes, which one did you mean?

Let me point out than, just so we are clear in why one might perceive the way one does.

Sarcasm done by mistake is an accident. Sarcasm placed intricately into precise places where it specifically works its point, is well placed sarcasm.

I have noted that some of your posts have well placed sarcasms, and if they are not meant that way it may just be a language barrier, and a very powerful coincidence.

Now just so you know, in my experiences, when responding to someone with blah blah blah, it usually indicates that one is not really interested in what they have to say or that they feel that what is said does not really matter to them.

Maybe that is not how you meant all of those sarcasms that I have read in many of your posts.

[βαθμιαίος]

Thus we, as a social memory complex of fourth-density, had the tendency towards compassion even to martyrdom in aid of other-selves. When the fifth-density harvest was achieved we found that in this vibratory level flaws could be seen in the efficacy of such unrelieved compassion. We spent much time/space in contemplation of those ways of the Creator which imbue love with wisdom.

I'm not sure if you're saying that this is relevant to Ra's actions in regards to earth's third density, but I don't think it is. Ra's fourth density ended, as I understand it, long before our third density began.

[Ankh]

There are no mistakes, but there are sure surprises, right?

In the ultimate sense, there are no mistakes under the Law of One. And yet:

Yahweh was of the Confederation but was mistaken in its attempts to aid.

Try reading the word in a different way... mis - take. As in... they attempted to communicate with earthlings, but their messages were mis - taken by them.

Yes, I agree. There are plenty other quotes in the material where Ra uses words like "mistaken", "error" and so on. I was thinking about balancing it with used statements such as there are no mistakes.

Then I'm curious to know... if it isn't Ra's responsibility, and it isn't humanity's responsibility... then whose responsibility is it? Ra says...

we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the Law of One.

Ra have their own responsibility/honor for removing specific distortions. What I talked about was whom to blame, which, in my humble opinion, is unbalanced. I just wanted to be honest with you and said that I blamed humanity. Perhaps realization that it is unimportant who made which mistake, as we are one, is what is important? Responsibility/honor is different from that.

My sister, what you "see" and what is there, are often two different things. Might I make a gentle suggestion? We have been provided with a most excellent search tool at www.lawofone.info. When you have questions such as these, why not avail yourself of this tool before entering into debate/discussion in a thread? Is there perhaps a fear or unwillingness about "seeing" something different from what you want to believe?

I offered you my interpretation of the quote in our discussion. I am very familiar with a most excellent search tool at lawofone.info, which I use daily and nightly. I am sorry to hear that my interpretation is not enough to enter the debate/discussion in a thread. This is a community of studying the material, and that very interpretation, when offered by me, if/when offered, is there for everyone to dissect. The meaning of my offering of my own interpretation/s is to test if that interpretation is correct. The fear or unwillingness about "seeing" something different from what I want to believe is not what this is about. When the interpretation is challenged and another view or explanation is offered which resonates with me better, I feel a great joy of being illuminated even more in what is stated in this complicated and advanced study material.

There is nothing to "read into it". Ra's view is right there in black and white. Here are some quotes for a search for the terms wisdom, compassion, and balance.

What you further provide in your post are general discussions about imbalance/balance between love/compassion and wisdom. What I specifically asked you: do you have any quote where Ra states directly that Ra was guided by folly love/compassion in their attempts to aid this planet in Harvest which was not balanced by wisdom?

Here is my view: in the above they are talking about UFO technology, and then adding that there were many other certain types of aid from Confederation, that are now seen as a folly certain *type of aid*. I interpret it as it is things like initiations, mummifications, nuclear and UFO technology etc, that are now seen to be that kind of aid that has proven to be *unhelpful to increase the Harvest*. I can explain myself and how I think in regards to that other quote too, that you've posted, *if* you are interested. But would you like to explain how you think? What makes you to state that you see an imbalance between love and wisdom?

I agree with you insofar as the forms which the aid had taken- and would add many more. However, the imbalance does not lie within the form, but the intention.

As far as "how I think"- I feel it to be somewhat irrelevant to this discussion which is about what -Ra- thinks. All I am doing is parroting their words.

What Ra thinks is probably that approaching awesome Harvest soon to be made into 7D. (<------------- JOKE!) I think that it is irrelevant to try to figure out what Ra thinks if it is not stated in the material. That is why I asked you - do they state in any specific quote that Ra's aid was an imbalance between love and wisdom when aiding this planet?

However- this result does not reverse the folly of twisting Ra's words in the first place. It doesn't undo the confusion which may have resulted in the minds of others who come across a distorted interpretation of Ra's words, and then use that to reinforce their own distortions, and then propagate them to others through continued discussion in other threads.

I invite you to ponder this, my sister, for often times when others are twisting Ra's words they are doing it out of a perceived need to be "more loving".

Well, perhaps here lies the near-hopelessness that Ra talks about in the attempts to teach? That no matter how clear you can be (and I mean they even took away the unconscious*(see Edit note) mind, and said that they are transmitting information without the distortions) it is still distorted by us? It is kind of sad actually...

Otherwise, I do as you: if someone says something that I believe is distorted or worse, the opposite of what is said in the material, I look up that quote and offer it in the discussion. I realize though that it doesn't matter. People will see what they wish and are ready to see. When student is ready, the teacher will appear. And by teacher I don't only mean the teacher as in the physical form or in form of an advanced material, but more that it could be something in the intelligence of the entity which wakes up, who then start seeing things that were missed before. Perhaps a hunger to study? To stop distorting teach/learnings in order for them to fill the self preconceived, firm beliefs?

Edit: *I wrote unconscious mind, which is a mistake. It should be conscious mind.

[Tenet Nosce]

Thus we, as a social memory complex of fourth-density, had the tendency towards compassion even to martyrdom in aid of other-selves. When the fifth-density harvest was achieved we found that in this vibratory level flaws could be seen in the efficacy of such unrelieved compassion. We spent much time/space in contemplation of those ways of the Creator which imbue love with wisdom.

I'm not sure if you're saying that this is relevant to Ra's actions in regards to earth's third density, but I don't think it is. Ra's fourth density ended, as I understand it, long before our third density began.

Yes- however this quote implies that there was still balancing work for Ra to do in fifth density. Upon harvest to fifth density, the flaws could be seen. This imbalance could have persisted even into early sixth density.

I think it is relevant, regardless of where the earth contact occurred in the context of their own evolution. However- I am curious if there is any definitive statement in the material about this. I will go look again...

[Ankh]

Now just so you know, in my experiences, when responding to someone with blah blah blah, it usually indicates that one is not really interested in what they have to say or that they feel that what is said does not really matter to them.

Maybe that is not how you meant all of those sarcasms that I have read in many of your posts.

I agree with your experience. *However* I used "blah-blah-blah" in regards to *my own words*, which means no disrespect to what you had to say.

I take what you have said here into consideration though, and will try to refrain to use this particular expression in the future, as it might add to perceived disrespectful tone in the discussion.

As to my usage of sarcasm in many of my posts - please feel free to address me with the specifics, and I will answer, if that is what you are seeking, to my best ability.

[Tenet Nosce]

I will go look again...

Got it.

When we were at the sixth dimension our physical beings were what you would call golden... In this form we decided to come among your peoples.

[βαθμιαίος]

This imbalance could have persisted even into early sixth density.

I don't think there's anything in the material that indicates that it did. They graduated from fifth density, so presumably they gained the wisdom necessary to do so.

I am curious if there is any definitive statement in the material about this. I will go look again...

Quotes that I found are below. Taken together, they indicate that Ra's graduation from fourth density was a long time ago -- about 2.57 billion years. They don't say how long they were in fifth for, but they do indicate that they're almost done with sixth.

43.13 Questioner: How long is a cycle of experience in fourth density in our years?

Ra: The cycle of experience is approximately 30 million of your years if the entities are not capable of being harvested sooner. There is in this density a harvest which is completely the function of the readiness of the social memory complex. It is not structured as is your own, for it deals with a more transparent distortion of the One Infinite Creator.

89.8 Questioner: How many of our years ago was Ra’s third density ended?

Ra: I am Ra. The calculations necessary for establishing this point are difficult since so much of what you call time is taken up before and after third density as you see the progress of time from your vantage point. We may say in general that the time of our enjoyment of the choice-making was approximately 2.6 million of your sun-years in your past. However—we correct this instrument. Your term is billion, 2.6 billion of your years in your past. However, this time, as you call it, is not meaningful for our intervening space/time has been experienced in a manner quite unlike your third-density experience of space/time.

14.19 Questioner: Of what density level is Ra?

Ra: I am Ra. I am sixth density with a strong seeking towards seventh density. The harvest for us will be in only approximately two and one-half million of your years and it is our desire to be ready for harvest as it approaches in our space/time continuum.

When we were at the sixth dimension our physical beings were what you would call golden... In this form we decided to come among your peoples.

Right, they were at sixth density. It doesn't say their mistakes were due to excessive compassion, which is what I thought you were arguing.

[Shin'Ar]

Now just so you know, in my experiences, when responding to someone with blah blah blah, it usually indicates that one is not really interested in what they have to say or that they feel that what is said does not really matter to them.

Maybe that is not how you meant all of those sarcasms that I have read in many of your posts.

I agree with your experience. *However* I used "blah-blah-blah" in regards to *my own words*, which means no disrespect to what you had to say.

I take what you have said here into consideration though, and will try to refrain to use this particular expression in the future, as it might add to perceived disrespectful tone in the discussion.

As to my usage of sarcasm in many of my posts - please feel free to address me with the specifics, and I will answer, if that is what you are seeking, to my best ability.

That is fair enough. I am aware that English is not your first language.

[Tenet Nosce]

Ra have their own responsibility/honor for removing specific distortions. What I talked about was whom to blame, which, in my humble opinion, is unbalanced. I just wanted to be honest with you and said that I blamed humanity. Perhaps realization that it is unimportant who made which mistake, as we are one, is what is important? Responsibility/honor is different from that.

Ah... yes now I've got you. I think we are mostly on the same page. Still... notice how easily the mind goes from "Who is responsible?" to "Who is to blame?" Yes- there is little value in "blame" and yet aversion to perceived blame is the mechanism par excellence by which people avoid taking responsibility. It gets back to seeing an "attack" where there is none. Much easier to take offense than to take responsibility.

In my opinion, the balanced view acknowledges responsibility, while leaving out the judgement.

I am sorry to hear that my interpretation is not enough to enter the debate/discussion in a thread. This is a community of studying the material, and that very interpretation, when offered by me, if/when offered, is there for everyone to dissect. The meaning of my offering of my own interpretation/s is to test if that interpretation is correct.

There is nothing wrong with your interpretations, and by all means continue to offer them! What I am attempting to convey is that there are often two different discussions which become intermingled and confused. The first being of what Ra actually said. And the second being of "our interpretation" of what Ra actually said. I was just attempting to disentangle these two in the discussion, rather than making you "wrong" in your beliefs. I wasn't perceiving us to be in all that much disagreement.

When the interpretation is challenged and another view or explanation is offered which resonates with me better, I feel a great joy of being illuminated even more in what is stated in this complicated and advanced study material.

Then, I tip my hat to you, dear sister.

What I specifically asked you: do you have any quote where Ra states directly that Ra was guided by folly love/compassion in their attempts to aid this planet in Harvest which was not balanced by wisdom?

No. This is the closest that I am aware of:

However, the priests and peoples of that era quickly distorted our message, robbing it of the, shall we say, compassion with which unity is informed by its very nature. Since it contains all, it cannot abhor any.

When we were no longer able to have appropriate channels through which to enunciate the Law of One, we removed ourselves from the now hypocritical position which we had allowed ourselves to be placed in.

The message was given in compassion, yet they "allowed themselves" to be in a hypocritical position. I am at a loss to come up with another explanation besides an imbalance of wisdom. Do you see another interpretation?

Well, perhaps here lies the near-hopelessness that Ra talks about in the attempts to teach? That no matter how clear you can be (and I mean they even took away the unconscious mind, and said that they are transmitting information without the distortions) it is still distorted by us? It is kind of sad actually...

Yes, I think so. I lament at my own seeming inability to convey with words what I so clearly perceive in my heart- especially with respect to this particular issue.

Let me put this another way... if Confederation ships landed today, how many of those in the "New Age" community would -yet again- hail the visitors as "gods" rather than equals? Even after channeling upon channeling- from multiple sources- which explicitly state otherwise?

Or put it this way... if Jesus were to actually return in human form declaring the universal brother/sisterhood of man... how many of his own followers would label him the "Antichrist"?

---

When we were at the sixth dimension our physical beings were what you would call golden... In this form we decided to come among your peoples.

Right, they were at sixth density. It doesn't say their mistakes were due to excessive compassion, which is what I thought you were arguing.

No- what I was trying to say was that the mistakes were due to a relative lack of wisdom. Sixth density is where the balance between compassion and wisdom is learned, right? Then, by inference from other quotes by Ra which explicitly state their distortion toward compassion, one must conclude that their sixth density experience is/was one of balancing compassion with wisdom. So yes, there is some inductive reasoning here, however it seems fairly straightforward to me. Do you have another explanation for their "mistakes"?

They graduated from fifth density, so presumably they gained the wisdom necessary to do so.

Yes- presumably they would have amassed "enough" wisdom to graduate, however that doesn't imply that there was still wisdom to be gained in sixth density. Just as one can graduate from 3D without having fully embodied that principle known as "universal love", or having fully mastered the discipline of faith.

---

Perhaps the confusion is stemming from use of the word "folly". The way I see it is this- there are four basic categories of "lessons" to be learned: faith, love, compassion, and wisdom. The notion of "folly" would, in an ultimate sense, encompass any sort of imbalanced expression of these.

In a more practical sense- it has to do with willful disregard for and/or disdain of wisdom. It seems rather clear to me that, out of these four qualities, wisdom is that which is most lacking among earth peoples at this nexus.

And yet... we have all these "spiritual teachers" and "gurus" telling us to be more loving, or more compassionate, or to have more faith... and very few imploring us to seek wisdom within. Might this perhaps have something to do with the fact that the wise person would immediately recognize the folly of giving one's power away to external sources?

[Ankh]

What I specifically asked you: do you have any quote where Ra states directly that Ra was guided by folly love/compassion in their attempts to aid this planet in Harvest which was not balanced by wisdom?

No. This is the closest that I am aware of:

However, the priests and peoples of that era quickly distorted our message, robbing it of the, shall we say, compassion with which unity is informed by its very nature. Since it contains all, it cannot abhor any.

When we were no longer able to have appropriate channels through which to enunciate the Law of One, we removed ourselves from the now hypocritical position which we had allowed ourselves to be placed in.

The message was given in compassion, yet they "allowed themselves" to be in a hypocritical position. I am at a loss to come up with another explanation besides an imbalance of wisdom. Do you see another interpretation?

I am sorry but what this quote says to *me* is that unity is to have compassion for *all*, as unity contains all. This quote does not say: when we were aiding your planet, we were guided by folly compassion, not balanced with wisdom, which we now see as a mistake.

Well, perhaps here lies the near-hopelessness that Ra talks about in the attempts to teach? That no matter how clear you can be (and I mean they even took away the unconscious mind, and said that they are transmitting information without the distortions) it is still distorted by us? It is kind of sad actually...

I made a mistake in this quote. I corrected it in my original post. In this quote I wrote unconscious mind, where it should be said conscious mind.

Let me put this another way... if Confederation ships landed today, how many of those in the "New Age" community would -yet again- hail the visitors as "gods" rather than equals? Even after channeling upon channeling- from multiple sources- which explicitly state otherwise?

Or put it this way... if Jesus were to actually return in human form declaring the universal brother/sisterhood of man... how many of his own followers would label him the "Antichrist"?

I don't get your point...?

And yet... we have all these "spiritual teachers" and "gurus" telling us to be more loving, or more compassionate, or to have more faith... and very few imploring us to seek wisdom within. Might this perhaps have something to do with the fact that the wise person would immediately recognize the folly of giving one's power away to external sources?

I believe that the reason for spiritual teachers and gurus and who else to tell us to be more loving and more compassionate is because it is salvation from third density.

[Diana]

And yet... we have all these "spiritual teachers" and "gurus" telling us to be more loving, or more compassionate, or to have more faith... and very few imploring us to seek wisdom within. Might this perhaps have something to do with the fact that the wise person would immediately recognize the folly of giving one's power away to external sources?

I couldn't agree more.

[Tenet Nosce]

I am sorry but what this quote says to *me* is that unity is to have compassion for *all*, as unity contains all. This quote does not say: when we were aiding your planet, we were guided by folly compassion, not balanced with wisdom, which we now see as a mistake.

Then what- according to *you*- was the cause of Ra ceasing to directly interact with the population?

I made a mistake in this quote. I corrected it in my original post. In this quote I wrote unconscious mind, where it should be said conscious mind.

Got it. Thanks for the correction.

Let me put this another way... if Confederation ships landed today, how many of those in the "New Age" community would -yet again- hail the visitors as "gods" rather than equals? Even after channeling upon channeling- from multiple sources- which explicitly state otherwise?

Or put it this way... if Jesus were to actually return in human form declaring the universal brother/sisterhood of man... how many of his own followers would label him the "Antichrist"?

I don't get your point...?

Try answering the questions I offered instead of attempting to skip to the "point". I'm curious to know your opinion.

---

And yet... we have all these "spiritual teachers" and "gurus" telling us to be more loving, or more compassionate, or to have more faith... and very few imploring us to seek wisdom within. Might this perhaps have something to do with the fact that the wise person would immediately recognize the folly of giving one's power away to external sources?

I couldn't agree more.

Please explain why you agree.

[Ankh]

I am sorry but what this quote says to *me* is that unity is to have compassion for *all*, as unity contains all. This quote does not say: when we were aiding your planet, we were guided by folly compassion, not balanced with wisdom, which we now see as a mistake.

Then what- according to *you*- was the cause of Ra ceasing to directly interact with the population?

Wisdom.

I don't get your point...?

Try answering the questions I offered instead of attempting to skip to the "point". I'm curious to know your opinion.

Not sure I liked the tone of this request, but I will answer your questions.

Let me put this another way... if Confederation ships landed today, how many of those in the "New Age" community would -yet again- hail the visitors as "gods" rather than equals?

Don't know, but I will offer my own perspective. If a certain group landed I would have great difficulties with seeing them as equals. The balanced view is possible to attain through meditation, contemplation and realization after some time. That would not be easy though. Don't know about the "New Age" folks.

Even after channeling upon channeling- from multiple sources- which explicitly state otherwise?

Yes, even after channeling upon channeling, or as in my case, reading, resonating, accepting, and understanding. Intellectual understanding is not the same as the understanding when it reaches the heart or the essence of the being perhaps, or when it is not manifested. In short, very easy to say, not so easy to do.

Or put it this way... if Jesus were to actually return in human form declaring the universal brother/sisterhood of man... how many of his own followers would label him the "Antichrist"?

Seriously don't know.

[Diana]

And yet... we have all these "spiritual teachers" and "gurus" telling us to be more loving, or more compassionate, or to have more faith... and very few imploring us to seek wisdom within. Might this perhaps have something to do with the fact that the wise person would immediately recognize the folly of giving one's power away to external sources?

I couldn't agree more.

Please explain why you agree.

Gurus and living masters have set themselves up as the ones who "know." They are here to tell us how to "get there." Been there, done that, so to speak. This may be the case, but in maintaining this stance, it sets up 2 dynamics:

1) They accumulate followers. To be a follower is to be disempowered, by my definition. With no followers, they would not have the title of "guru," "master," etc. It seems to me it can be in their own interest to be followed. However, the responsibility to think/feel for one's self is at issue, and not to follow what someone else thinks/feels. What the gurus and masters have to say is information to be discerned, not followed (in my opinion).

2) It is infringing upon free will in a way--the free will do do it yourself. Is it enlightened to tell someone how to become enlightened? Gurus and living masters lecture to followers or seekers. Yet, how many paths are there to evolve? An infinite number, of course. I would rather see teachers who guide, but do not say "this is the way to enlightenment."

[Tenet Nosce]

Then what- according to *you*- was the cause of Ra ceasing to directly interact with the population?

Wisdom.

Exactly... I'm sorry, Ankh, are we in disagreement about something??

[Plenum]

nice post Diana.

I like it!

[yossarian]

And yet... we have all these "spiritual teachers" and "gurus" telling us to be more loving, or more compassionate, or to have more faith... and very few imploring us to seek wisdom within. Might this perhaps have something to do with the fact that the wise person would immediately recognize the folly of giving one's power away to external sources?

I couldn't agree more.

Please explain why you agree.

Gurus and living masters have set themselves up as the ones who "know." They are here to tell us how to "get there." Been there, done that, so to speak. This may be the case, but in maintaining this stance, it sets up 2 dynamics:

1) They accumulate followers. To be a follower is to be disempowered, by my definition. With no followers, they would not have the title of "guru," "master," etc. It seems to me it can be in their own interest to be followed. However, the responsibility to think/feel for one's self is at issue, and not to follow what someone else thinks/feels. What the gurus and masters have to say is information to be discerned, not followed (in my opinion).

2) It is infringing upon free will in a way--the free will do do it yourself. Is it enlightened to tell someone how to become enlightened? Gurus and living masters lecture to followers or seekers. Yet, how many paths are there to evolve? An infinite number, of course. I would rather see teachers who guide, but do not say "this is the way to enlightenment."

The funniest ones are the ones who tell you stuff like:

- dont trust me blindly
- trust yourself
- look inside yourself, the answers are there
- dont look outside yourself for guidance
- dont give your power away
- dont look to me to tell you what to do
- etc

. . . . . . . and then they have a thousand little copycats who follow them around, do everything they say, obey blindly, trust them blindly, laugh at every bad joke, worship their images, buy all their products, send them all their money, etc

David Wilcock is a good example.

One time in a dream I met a spiritual master who I had read (not DW) and in his writing he talked a lot about trusting in yourself and not looking to others to lead you.

In the dream I said to hi to him, and looked over, and 10 feet away there was a huge horde of a thousand worshippers blindly acquiescing, obeying, unquestioning, gazing at him in admiration ready to obey any wish.

Anyway in the dream I was upset at seeing all these people and how it did not even fit what he was teaching. He told me he didnt like it either but that the more he tells them to "f*** OFF!" the more they worship him. He has just learned to make the most of being followed around by these slaves who apparently dont even listen to his teachings.

So.... yeah I guess thats the earth for you. Maybe these gurus often dont want to be worshipped but have it literally forced on them. Slaves gonna slave.

[Ankh]

I'm sorry, Ankh, are we in disagreement about something??

Well, it seemed to me that you were saying that Ra was guided by folly compassion not balanced by wisdom, when aiding this planet. What are you saying?

Taken together, they indicate that Ra's graduation from fourth density was a long time ago -- about 2.57 billion years. They don't say how long they were in fifth for, but they do indicate that they're almost done with sixth.

If Ra graduated from fourth density 2.57 billions years ago, and assuming that this is their first major cycle of sixth density, which is 75 millions years, then they must have spent 1.845 billions of years in fifth density! O_o?

(There must have been a lot of missed Harvests in fifth density!
Ra: Here it comes! Here it comes! C'moooon, guys!!
Intelligent Infinity: Still too folly, guys! Sorry. Better luck next time.
Ra: dang!! )

[Tenet Nosce]

- dont trust me blindly
- trust yourself
- look inside yourself, the answers are there
- dont look outside yourself for guidance
- dont give your power away
- dont look to me to tell you what to do
- etc

I know what you are talking about. Some years ago I used to attend channeling sessions with "The Angels". They would begin with a sermonette that was usually somewhat interesting, and they proceed to take questions from the audience.

Every week, the same questions. Should I take that job? Should I move or stay? Should should should. Tell me what to do. And in every case, the reply was as you said... trust yourself, go within, don't look to us for that.

Would you believe that there were certain people who came back week after week asking basically the same question and getting basically the same answer... seemingly oblivious?! Putting money in the box week after week. Like total zombies.

Anyhow, I found it irritating beyond belief. I always came with a question about "The Angels" themselves. I wanted to know about more of their world, and what their perspectives of us were like. How absurd to waste all this time saying the same thing over and over and over again!

It is the answer that nobody wants to hear. Go within. Look inside. There is nothing that you "should" be doing other than what brings you peace, love and joy. We just won't have it. It can't possibly be the answer. We think- there must be some kind of "hidden" answer or "secret" that only the "initiated" know about. And so we are off to find the next guru. It's just really quite absurd and the only possible function I can think of for this is to have a constant source of amusement in the world.

. . . . . . . and then they have a thousand little copycats who follow them around, do everything they say, obey blindly, trust them blindly, laugh at every bad joke, worship their images, buy all their products, send them all their money, etc

Well, that's true. And I think it's one of those things that people of course get real touchy about when it gets brought up. It's more P.C. to say, oh look those poor downtrodden humans who have been abused and taken advantage of, somebody please help them! But it is offensive to point out the blithering idiocy of those who have the answer constantly thrust in their face, but still persist in this kind of ridiculous idolatry.

Maybe these gurus often dont want to be worshipped but have it literally forced on them.

I suspect that is often the case.

---

What are you saying?

I'm saying that Ra is much wiser for having been here.

[βαθμιαίος]

Ra offered teachings that were misapplied. I guess your argument is that they shouldn't have offered the teachings if they might be misapplied, but I'm not sure I agree. I do agree that they have learned from the experience.

[Tenet Nosce]

Ra offered teachings that were misapplied.

Why do you think the teachings were misapplied?

I guess your argument is that they shouldn't have offered the teachings if they might be misapplied, but I'm not sure I agree.

Not exactly. I would leave "should" out of the equation. There was a call and they responded. The folly is in giving what is asked for before the recipient is mature enough to act responsibly with it.

Does every little girl get that pony they want so badly? Or does the wise parent recognize that the little girl is not responsible enough to properly care for the pony? To give the pony prematurely is loving folly. Perhaps start with a hamster or guinea pig. When the girl demonstrates her responsibility with that, then maybe a dog or cat. Then after that- the pony. Chances are by then, the girl no longer wants the pony, and is off to the next thing.

I do agree that they have learned from the experience.

But have we? That is my question.

[Shin'Ar]

Yes tenet,

We have. And we continue to do so. many have gone on before us having been through this place you now dwell on. And many more will come behind us to go through it all over again.

It is a process, and one in which we are caught up in this frame of mind at this time.

What you are trying to do is draw that proverbial line.

How long? At what Point? When? Why?

Who is to say whether a billion years of ten years should be the setting of that timeline, when we are aware that there is an infinity at work that is vastly more ancient than anything we can begin to comprehend.

Tenet, I cannot speak to Ra's use of rationale, but I can speak to the nature of man. It is natural for us to tend toward setting limits and basing existence upon our logical understanding of it.

What we should be doing is trying to find our natural in the supernatural so we do not make those mistakes.

[Tenet Nosce]

We have. And we continue to do so. many have gone on before us having been through this place you now dwell on. And many more will come behind us to go through it all over again.

Yes, I see your point. This place we call earth is just a station we are passing through. But I am talking about racial memory. Normally, human beings would- as a collective- learn from their mistakes and each new generation would build upon the wisdom of the ancestors, and/or Ancients as you may call them.

In this place we have come to disregard the wisdom of the ancients. Humans seem to feel this doesn't apply to us. We seem to have some sort of collective amnesia which prevents us from acknowledging our past, and learning from it.

For example, rarely do three generations go by before people get whipped back up into a warlike frenzy. Has war ever solved anything in the history of the human race? Ever? Did Sargon succeed in his mission to rule the world through war and submission? Did Cyrus? Did Alexander? Did Caesar? Did Bush? Did any of the Kings, Pharaohs, Popes, and Presidents succeed? No, they did not. Yet each of them thought- I will be the one to succeed where others have failed. And each of them found a willing army of human beings- ready to slay their brothers and sisters... for... what? "Glory"?

Why do you suppose that is?

It is a process, and one in which we are caught up in this frame of mind at this time.

What you are trying to do is draw that proverbial line.

No, not exactly. I agree yes, it is a process. Perhaps a necessary process (though I don't really think so). The point is that a process is supposed to result in progress. Not the continual building up of civilizations only to have them repeatedly destroyed by war, famine, and disease.

It is natural for us to tend toward setting limits and basing existence upon our logical understanding of it.

What we should be doing is trying to find our natural in the supernatural so we do not make those mistakes.

So then, putting those two statements together, we should be trying to set limits on the supernatural?