The undeniable truth of Darkness and STS

[Tenet Nosce]

Say, do sts come together in unity for common causes?

[Shemaya]

Interesting thread here guys! I totally see what you are saying TN, Shin'ar posts seemed very odd to me from the beginning. And I have mentioned before, I felt pretty triggered by what he was saying, and deliberately did not reply in his threads. Actually probably started replying at least 5 or 6 times and changed my mind.

But I think all the forum members that interacted with him have been exceptionally tolerant , patient and accomodating. You people rock! Way to go Bring4thers

[Monica]

Nope- the quotes I provided were from three different threads. One of them specifically refers to people "in this forum".

Oh.

[Tenet Nosce]

[deleted] (say... how come I can't seem to delete my own post?)

[Monica]

[deleted] (say... how come I can't seem to delete my own post?)

Only the mods (and I) have that power.

Otherwise, we'd have Swiss cheese all over the place.

[Tenet Nosce]

Otherwise, we'd have Swiss cheese all over the place.

(I couldn't resist!)

[Shin'Ar]

Tenet Nosche,

It is unfortunate that you did not let everyone know the gist of the entire post that was made in the DC forum.

Although as you noted I do think it is in here somewhere anyway.

When I speak of dark and light as the natural polarity found in the design of the universe this is vastly different than the darkness of greedy self gratifying people who manipulate and abuse others for their own personal gain. But I think you knew that.

is it an insult for me to point that out? I do not think so given the amount of posts that we have shared that lead me to make that remark. Why can I not state what I observe?

If I come to a place and my observation is that many of those I have just conversed with seem to be tolerant of STS, than how is it an insult for me to say that I find that many here seem to be STS oriented? It might be an insult if I was deliberately trying to offend someone. But when I am simply relaying what I believe I am experiencing, than that is simply stating what I observe as fact. Ot at least possible and needing further invetsigation.

I had good reason to try to lead a discussion by posting the Brown Notes without actually labeling them. I had tried to have a discussion about STs and the best of my efforts were being mocked and derailed. If that tactic had worked, whether a little underhanded or not, it certainly would have had a dramatic affect at revealing some of the things that I was trying to reveal here.

I have been clear about my feelings around the apathetic stance with regard to STS. In many of my earlier discussions here on that topic, with a few particular members, the discussions very much gave me the impression that STS was being taught by them to be worthy of exploration and that it didnt really matter because we are all One anyway.

But, I am not here to point fingers or try to corner anyone by rehashing that or posting all those remarks. they are in here somewhere. What matters is that there might be a chance that something that I have said has caused someone who might have been thinking that STS is a path worth exploring, might now think twice.

That makes all of this worthwhile to me. Heck, just the fact that I am getting Gary to actually read the Brown Notebook is a bonus. Who knows, maybe some of the confusion can be cleared up completey when some of what I said is further investigated.

All in all, these remarks that many of you have made about me were expected and only serve to point out that which I was already trying to point out. There are many here who have a problem with having their understandings of STS questioned and dissected.

But my observations and whether or not they were accurate and credible is not what matters. What matters is whether or not the issues are real. Those in defiance that are pretending that there never was any issue know how those earlier discussions went and exactly why I came to those conclusions. So what point would there be in me now trying to point fingers and serach through old posts? I would get the same response all over again.

Light and dark. Polarity. If you understand what that means than you will not need me to explain the balancing of the two in nature.

Darkness and STS. Well, in this forum, that seems to be up for grabs. But if someone states that they think that partaking in STS is a great way to learn about one's self, or that it really doesn't matter if someone murders someone or not because we are all One, than I would state that person to be STS oriented. Which is what I found with at least half a dozen members here as they argued their points about exactly that with me.

Insulting? Not in my understanding.

[native]

I notice two different views.

One focuses on evil and how to destroy it.

One focuses on love and how to enhance it.

I didn't reference destroying anything (?). For any kind of progression, one has to have values. What would you suggest?

[Shin'Ar]

And one focuses on both love and enhancing it ANd the need to be wary of darkness that pervades in the world so as not to become entrapped within it. That is loving others and being cautious of their welfare.

[Monica]

But if someone states that they think that partaking in STS is a great way to learn about one's self, or that it really doesn't matter if someone murders someone or not because we are all One, than I would state that person to be STS oriented. Which is what I found with at least half a dozen members here as they argued their points about exactly that with me.

Aha, seems like a miscommunication here. Perhaps I can shed some light on this.

In this community, we refer to someone as being STS-oriented if they are on the path to a very high percentage of STS polarity - like approaching 90-95% or at least heading in that direction.

Whereas, an STO-oriented person is someone who is aspiring to be at least 51% STO. They might not be there yet, but they're actively working in that direction.

These are the definitions given us by Ra. We have exact percentages required for harvest. Someone nearing those percentages, even if not yet harvestable, would be considered 'oriented' towards that polarity.

According to these definitions, most of our members are decidedly not STS oriented.

Even those with whom you were discussing, who may be fascinated by conversing with one who professes to be STS - they aren't STS oriented. They aren't murderers, they aren't going around killing and raping. They might be naive. They might be going a little overboard in welcoming self-professed STS entities. They might even be a little too enthusiastic about learning about the STS path, but that is NOT the same thing as actually engaging in STS activities that control, harm, and dominate others.

Where I agree with you, Shin'Ar, is your point that some might be rather nonchalant about the STS path. I too have noticed an attitude of "well nothing matters because we're all One anyway" and "please, dark one, tell me more about your dark path! I love you!" and, as I stated in a previous post, they're really NOT loving/accepting STS at all; they are merely loving and accepting a polite demeanor, a mask, which seems glamorous because it professes to be 'the dark side.'

I agree, Shin'Ar, that such fascination could open the door to deception and vulnerability. I agree, Shin'Ar, that enthusiastically embracing those professing to be of the dark path, could possibly result in a clouding of vision, as the path can be seductive.

As I stated, I think, as a community, there is much room for improvement in our acceptance of one another's differences and personality quirks. I am much more interested in that, than in claiming to love and accept an STS entity who is being overly polite, when they clearly aren't demonstrating any STS attributes. What's to accept? Polite people are easy to accept. It's when others get annoyed, or hurt, or when there are misunderstandings or buttons pushed, that it becomes challenging.

HOWEVER, and this is a VERY BIG HOWEVER, the fact that ALL of us here have our shortcomings, ALL of us have indeed fallen short at times, and the fact that some maybe, just maybe, have become a bit fascinated with learning about the 'dark side' and maybe even have misunderstood what it means to 'love and accept' the dark side, does NOT make them STS!

I wish to validate what I consider to be a valid point you have made. I concur that it is a valid concern, and, for the record, several other members are in agreement also. Yes, a few others have told me privately that they too were concerned about an increased fascination with all things STS. One person even used the metaphor of the Pied Piper dancing with his band of merry followers...so eager are they to stumble over one another to be first in line to converse with the - swoon - STS entity who has graced us with his presence. (NOT my words, ok? Just passing it on.)

So, Shin'Ar, I validate THAT point.

HOWEVER, I also wish to be very clear that there has been a miscommunication based on an erroneous definition of the term STS oriented.

Bring4th members are not without flaws. But, most of our active members are most assuredly STO oriented. I am 100% certain of that.

Does this clarify?

Now, about Azrael and that Belial thing...? What's up with that?

[Tenet Nosce]

It is unfortunate that you did not let everyone know the gist of the entire post that was made in the DC forum.

I provided a link to it for anybody who cares to read it. I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth by summarizing your posts on your behalf. That is how many conflicts get started in web forums... as perhaps you well know by now.

When I speak of dark and light as the natural polarity found in the design of the universe this is vastly different than the darkness of greedy self gratifying people who manipulate and abuse others for their own personal gain. But I think you knew that.

Yes, I know that. As well, so do you know that the "STS path" is a path of spiritual adepthood. The "STS path" is not simply referring to selfish people who don't think past their own sense of immediate gratification. Those people aren't on a spiritual path yet. They know not what they do.

is it an insult for me to point that out? I do not think so given the amount of posts that we have shared that lead me to make that remark. Why can I not state what I observe?

You are welcome to state what you have observed. However- when you take an observation about some members and then make a generalization about members who you have had little to no such interaction with- that is what I think some people find insulting. Do you see the difference?

If I come to a place and my observation is that many of those I have just conversed with seem to be tolerant of STS, than how is it an insult for me to say that I find that many here seem to be STS oriented? It might be an insult if I was deliberately trying to offend someone. But when I am simply relaying what I believe I am experiencing, than that is simply stating what I observe as fact. Ot at least possible and needing further invetsigation.

I would say that it needs further investigation. Expressing tolerance for the STS path does not mean that one condones it, or would recommend it to others. Neither does acceptance necessarily mean approval.

I would normally give you the benefit of the doubt on this one- however several members, including myself, have made this point to you multiple times and somehow it keeps getting overlooked by you.

I had good reason to try to lead a discussion by posting the Brown Notes without actually labeling them. I had tried to have a discussion about STs and the best of my efforts were being mocked and derailed. If that tactic had worked, whether a little underhanded or not, it certainly would have had a dramatic affect at revealing some of the things that I was trying to reveal here.

There is nothing to reveal that is not already known. Hatonn is of fourth density. Latwii is of fifth density. Ra is of sixth density. They each have different perspectives, but there is no incongruence. If you see incongruence between any of these documents, it is more likely due to your not having studied them deeply enough.

I have been clear about my feelings around the apathetic stance with regard to STS. In many of my earlier discussions here on that topic, with a few particular members, the discussions very much gave me the impression that STS was being taught by them to be worthy of exploration and that it didnt really matter because we are all One anyway.

Well then, I suggest you would do better by keeping your comments directed toward those particular members in question, rather than attempting to generalize to the whole forum base.

But, I am not here to point fingers or try to corner anyone by rehashing that or posting all those remarks.

You may want to consider that perhaps what you are perceiving as "apathy" from some of the members is precisely because we are tired of rehashing the same old debates over and over again about STO/STS. People are going to believe whatever they want to believe. That much you can count on.

What matters is that there might be a chance that something that I have said has caused someone who might have been thinking that STS is a path worth exploring, might now think twice.

Who elected you their savior? I think perhaps you are missing an important point about service-to-others... generally speaking the service must be first requested by the other. Pushing your service onto another who has not requested it is a spiritual violence, and ultimately depolarizing.

That makes all of this worthwhile to me. Heck, just the fact that I am getting Gary to actually read the Brown Notebook is a bonus. Who knows, maybe some of the confusion can be cleared up completey when some of what I said is further investigated.

There is no confusion beyond that which exists in your own mind. Here you are telling others to read the Brown Notebook. May I ask? Have you read all of the Ra material? How about the Aaron/Q'uo Dialogues? Overall, what percentage of the L/L Research Transcripts have you, Shin'Ar, actually read?

Or did you just skim over a few things and then jump right in ready to tell others "how it really is"?

All in all, these remarks that many of you have made about me were expected and only serve to point out that which I was already trying to point out. There are many here who have a problem with having their understandings of STS questioned and dissected.

No- they don't serve to point out what you were trying to point out. That would be called "STS" thinking. In actuality, they serve to point out what we were trying to point out.

Please- don't tell me what I think about something. You seem to be overestimating your ability to probe into another person's mind. Not to mention that probing into another person's mind- without permission- is actually "STS" behavior.

Light and dark. Polarity. If you understand what that means than you will not need me to explain the balancing of the two in nature.

I don't need you to explain anything to me. I have my own internal guidance system, thank you very much. Oh, and by the way, trying to get others to acknowledge oneself as an external authority on spiritual matters is "STS" behavior. I would "warn" you of the dangers of styling oneself as a spiritual authority... but you haven't asked and it wouldn't make a difference, would it?

Darkness and STS.

Yes. I see you know all about it. Seeing as how you repeatedly use lies, deception, manipulation, accusations, threats, warnings, admonitions, and fear, in order to make your points. How is that working out for you so far, Shin'Ar? Have you "converted" anybody to the Light side yet?

But if someone states that they think that partaking in STS is a great way to learn about one's self, or that it really doesn't matter if someone murders someone or not because we are all One, than I would state that person to be STS oriented. Which is what I found with at least half a dozen members here as they argued their points about exactly that with me.

Perhaps your experience of the forum members was skewed. Have you considered all of the members who didn't participate in those threads? Did you see me write a peep in Zaxon's thread? No- but you were sure quick to draw conclusions about me based on what others wrote, now weren't you?

Insulting? Not in my understanding.

Apparently, to your understanding, making general comments about a group of people based on your interactions with only a few is a totally loving and "STO" thing to do. Go figure.

[Monica]

Who elected you their savior? I think perhaps you are missing an important point about service-to-others... generally speaking the service must be first requested by the other. Pushing your service onto another who has not requested it is a spiritual violence, and ultimately depolarizing.
...
I don't need you to explain anything to me. I have my own internal guidance system, thank you very much. Oh, and by the way, trying to get others to acknowledge oneself as an external authority on spiritual matters is "STS" behavior. I would "warn" you of the dangers of styling oneself as a spiritual authority... but you haven't asked and it wouldn't make a difference, would it?

Shin'Ar, I invite you to consider Tenet's words here. One of the core tenets of the Law of One is that free will must always be respected. Assistance is provided in response to a call. We may offer help if we perceive a call, but if our offer is declined, we must honor that.

In fact, an example is given by Ra of 2 STO Wanderers who imposed their knowledge on a community, and woke up "disconcerted" to find they had polarized STS!

The Law of One isn't a religion or dogma, and there are no authorities. Our community, as a whole, will balk at anyone who tries to assert any sort of spiritual authority. Not even Carla, the channel of the material, puts herself in an authority role.

[Tenet Nosce]

In fact, an example is given by Ra of 2 STO Wanderers who imposed their knowledge on a community, and woke up "disconcerted" to find they had polarized STS!

Do you know where that example is in the material?

[Monica]

In fact, an example is given by Ra of 2 STO Wanderers who imposed their knowledge on a community, and woke up "disconcerted" to find they had polarized STS!

Do you know where that example is in the material?

89.30 Questioner: Would Ra have the same attitude toward the unharvestable entities or would it be different at this nexus than at the time of harvest from the third density?
Ra: I am Ra. Not substantially. To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested. We were ready to serve in whatever way we could. This still seems satisfactory as a means of dealing with other-selves in third density. It is our feeling that to be each entity which one attempts to serve is to simplify the grasp of what service is necessary or possible.

89.31 Questioner: What techniques did the two negatively harvested entities use for negative polarization upon such a positively polarized planet?
Ra: I am Ra. The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases. Upon a planetary influence much unused to slaughter these entities were able to polarize by this means. Upon your third-density environment at the time of your experiencing such entities would merely be considered, shall we say, ruthless despots which waged the holy war.

89.32 Questioner: Did these two entities evolve from the second density of the planet Venus along with the rest of the population of Venus that became Ra from second density to third?
Ra: I am Ra. No.

89.33 Questioner: What was the origin of the two entities of which you speak?
Ra: I am Ra. These entities were Wanderers from early positive fifth density.

89.34 Questioner: And though they had already evolved through a positive fourth density they, shall we say, switched polarity in the reincarnating in third density. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

89.35 Questioner: What was the catalyst for their change?
Ra: I am Ra. In our peoples there was what may be considered, from the viewpoint of wisdom, an overabundance of love. These entities looked at those still in darkness and saw that those of a neutral or somewhat negative viewpoint found such harmony, shall we say, sickening. The Wanderers felt that a more wisdom-oriented way of seeking love could be more appealing to those in darkness.

First one entity began its work. Quickly the second found the first. These entities had agreed to serve together and so they did, glorifying the One Creator, but not as they intended. About them were soon gathered those who found it easy to believe that a series of specific knowledges and wisdoms would advance one towards the Creator. The end of this was the graduation into fourth-density negative of the Wanderers, which had much power of personality, and some small deepening of the negatively polarized element of those not polarizing positively. There was no negative harvest as such.

89.36 Questioner: What was the reason for the wandering of these two Wanderers, and were they male and female?
Ra: I am Ra. All Wanderers come to be of assistance in serving the Creator, each in its own way. The Wanderers of which we have been speaking were indeed incarnated male and female as this is by far the most efficient system of partnership.

89.37 Questioner: As a wild guess, one of these entities wouldn’t be the one who has been our companion here for some time would it?
Ra: I am Ra. No.

89.38 Questioner: Then from what you say I am guessing that these Wanderers returned or wandered to Ra’s third density possibly to seed greater wisdom in what they saw as an overabundance of compassion in the Ra culture. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect in the sense that before incarnation it was the desire of these Wanderers only to aid in service to others. The query has correctness when seen from the viewpoint of the Wanderers within that incarnation.

89.39 Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as the population of Venus was doing as far as I can tell would need Wanderers in order to help with the harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?
Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves.

89.40 Questioner: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into-fourth density negative and, the veil being removed, realized that they had switched polarities?
Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted.

89.41 Questioner: Then did they continue striving to polarize negatively for a fifth-density harvest in the negative sense or did they do something else?
Ra: I am Ra. They worked with the fourth-density negative for some period until, within this framework, the previously learned patterns of the self had been recaptured and the polarity was, with great effort, reversed. There was a great deal of fourth-density positive work then to be retraced.

[Shin'Ar]

Tenet Nosche, I really do not know how to converse with you so it is probaly best that we avoid each other in here.

Monica, as it is a breach of forum policy and rules I must find a way to say the things which I believe without crossing that line.

I am not sure that I can do this but I will try.

However it seems strange to me that if one cares about others, and sees what they percieve to be a danger awaiting them, why would one avoid calling out the danger in hopes of bringing it to their attention?

many years ago a coworker of mine was attacked in our work parking lot by three people that he had a confronation with earlier that day. He was badly beaten and spent weeks recovering in the hospital. later we found out that those attackers had been waiting in the parking lot for hours not knowing when he would actually come back from work. they had even told a couple of other coworkers that they were wating for my friend and that they were going to make him sorry.

Those coworkers chose not to concern themnselves and chose not to report this to the officals. they just went about their business and let it go.

My friend may not have actuially requested their help, but if someone had actually cared, and acted in compassion and concern instead of the opposite, that disaster might have been avoided.

Why, in the name of all that is good and holy, would anyone professing love and compasssion, choose to just walk on by without crying out a warning? Tenet Nosche? can you explain that to me? can anyone explain that to me? because I do not undetstyand it, and I could never have allowed that to happen that day had I been able to warn him.

Now how is my concern for humanity any different? If Ra would be one of those who would not give warning, than I have concerns about Ra. However as I said, there is a forum policy about this and so I must abide.

[BrownEye]

Um, are you saying that any karma your friend had could be avoided?

[Shin'Ar]

Um, are you saying that any karma your friend had could be avoided?

?? I am not sure if any of those attackers were named karma or not? Are you saying that you would have left him to be attacked if there was a way of warning him?

[Tenet Nosce]

Tenet Nosche, I really do not know how to converse with you so it is probaly best that we avoid each other in here.

Agreed. Unless you might be willing to respond to this:

Expressing tolerance for the STS path does not mean that one condones it, or would recommend it to others. Neither does acceptance necessarily mean approval.

I couldn't help but notice you conveniently overlooked this point, yet again.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Did Shin'Ar refer to anyone else besides Zaxion as STS? (I'm not counting Zaxion since he referred to himself as STS.)

I know that there have been a few replies to this already, but I'd like to point out that Shin'Ar has both directly and indirectly accused others of being STS.

In the midst of going on about "ratting out those following STS," Shin'Ar suggested that plenum was "preaching STS" in his thread The undeniable truth of Light and STO, and when I made a simple humorous reply about plenum preaching STS, Shin'Ar stated towards me "And here we have another one! They make themselves very obvious. Why is that those here who know better do not address them?" Shin'Ar has also stated on numerous occasions that he believes there are multiple STS members here trying to manipulate the community and he sees it as his job to rat them out.

[Ankh]

Beyond this- to do these things while claiming to be putting out "love and light" or claiming to be some sort of enlightened or awakened being... well that's just totally absurd in my book.

Well, many here claim to be loving, and claim to be from this or that density, so Shin'Ar isn't alone in that respect.

I think that the difference is in imposing its own truth on others, to use lies and deception when spreading the message, while claiming doing that for other's sake, in order to "save" them. These methods are used by service to self entities. And I have not seen other members using these same methods in this forum. These methods has been used since well, I don't know when, but among many, they are used today by religious fanatics and zealots, who propose that there is only one truth, their own. Yes, there might be only one truth, but it has invested itself in many-ness.

Incidentally, several other members had expressed similar concerns to me over the past few months, though in a less dramatic way. This is probably why I was able to see some validity in some of Shin'Ar's concerns. Others had the same concerns.

When I hear of the same concerns from multiple people, I tend to pay attention to it. The delivery of said concerns is secondary and seems to be what's being focused on here. Shin'Ar is the only one who voiced those concerns publicly, and chose a way to do that, that wasn't effective.

For the record, Shin'Ar also isn't the only one to say that others were STS, nor the only one to proselytize or try to 'warn' the community.

I suppose that one does worry and is concerned about others, especially about those near and dear ones. I am one of those people who tend to worry about my friends, relatives etc. But I believe in the following:

One of the core tenets of the Law of One is that free will must always be respected. Assistance is provided in response to a call. We may offer help if we perceive a call, but if our offer is declined, we must honor that.

In fact, an example is given by Ra of 2 STO Wanderers who imposed their knowledge on a community, and woke up "disconcerted" to find they had polarized STS!

The Law of One isn't a religion or dogma, and there are no authorities. Our community, as a whole, will balk at anyone who tries to assert any sort of spiritual authority. Not even Carla, the channel of the material, puts herself in an authority role.

So if we are worried and concerned, we may express our worries and concerns.

It is a big difference though between expressing the concerns and imposing them on others using fear and its own truth as the only valid truth.

[3DMonkey]

Say, do sts come together in unity for common causes?

Isn't there a saying- Birds of a feather flock together

[Monica]

I think that the difference is in imposing its own truth on others, to use lies and deception when spreading the message, while claiming doing that for other's sake, in order to "save" them. These methods are used by service to self entities. And I have not seen other members using these same methods in this forum. These methods has been used since well, I don't know when, but among many, they are used today by religious fanatics and zealots, who propose that there is only one truth, their own. Yes, there might be only one truth, but it has invested itself in many-ness.

I understand. And yet...that "imposing" too is a distortion of the One.

I suppose that one does worry and is concerned about others, especially about those near and dear ones. I am one of those people who tend to worry about my friends, relatives etc. But I believe in the following:...
So if we are worried and concerned, we may express our worries and concerns.

It is a big difference though between expressing the concerns and imposing them on others using fear and its own truth as the only valid truth.

So it appears that you felt imposed upon. I understand.

But is that too just another distortion? Is the response not the same?

[drifting pages]

A person who seeks to convert them to there religion

A person who talks about religion all time never stops

A person that annoys everyone with talking about religion.

A religious nut preaching on street corner

That is a subdivision of dis-empowering mentality/reality

Edit:
I don't care if shin is that or not but this type of thoughts feel like lack to me.

[Ankh]

So it appears that you felt imposed upon. I understand.

Not sure if I felt imposed upon, but what I did react at was, a trap, and I didn't see it. I didn't get it. I was blind to it. When it was discovered, I got shocked that any member on this forum would go into such extremities in order to spread their philosophy. :exclamation:

That is why I wrote in that post, that maybe Shin'Ar does teach us, but not in the ways that he tells us that he teaches.

But is that too just another distortion? Is the response not the same?

Yes it is. Working on it. /

[Shin'Ar]

Monica,

You may be absolutely right on a misunderstanding over their perception of STS and that which I have of it. maybe that is why they were taking insult and why I saw their replies as sarcastic. I thought they were deliberately being facetious or distracting, because I knew that I had not deliberately meant to be insulting.

It does make a little more sense now.

I did read that about the 95 % thing with regard to harvest, but I did not apply that to the overall day to day choices of living life. It actually confuses me a little as I can't see how a person who practices service to self to the degree of 95% would not be considered STS, and yet one who only practices service to others half that time WOULD be considered STO. That is a contradiction that I cant grasp.

But maybe that has to do with how I am defining STS. So let me be clear and then you can tell me if that is causing the issue here.

In my studies of various religions, there has forever been the call to rise above the flesh and escape its hold so that one can become a higher self, not bound to continuing in the cycle of reincarnation. This has been the recurring teaching of many religions and philosophies around the world for thousands of years.

Bear in mind that I am NOT trying to convert anybody to any of these religions. And I am NOT preaching any specific doctrine. This is simply my understanding of what I have learned through studying these things.

And within those teachings there is the acknowledgement that the reason that this separation from the flesh is so diffcult to accomplish is because of the pleasures that the flesh affords. It is in self gratification, for the sake of enjoying the tempting pleasures of the flesh, that man becomes so addicted to those pleasures that he neither wants to be separated from them, nor can he, because of his addicition.

Now, it is also taught in many of these ancient religions that when the angels/ higher beings/ Ets, or whatever name one wants to give them, first came to Earth they became addicted to the pleasures of the flesh and trapped within the cycle of reincarnation as a result, because they did not want to leave the flesh behind. And they became so entrapped in the routine of it that they actually lost/forgot their true identites. These became known as the Sons of Belial or the Sons of Darkness because of their desire to remain in the flesh, while others, having realized their plight and loss, and were aware of their true divine nature, became the Sons of Light.

The distinguishing factor between these two was not a % ratio, but the fact that the Sons of Light believed that the way to escape from their flesh was to avoid being addicted to it, and so instead of indulging in self gratification, they sought to serve others, seeek harmony and love for all, and deny their fleshly lusts and passions of individualism.

Those who were not of that desire, and did not want to separate from those lusts and desires, were at odds with their brethren and struggles between the two became more and more exxagerated. Those now not only engaged in self gratification as a lifestyle and philosophy, but they now had to contend with others who were 'not' so inclined, and in that source of contention, control and power became the goal of those who did 'not' seek to 'escape the flesh'.

This is my understanding of the definitions of 'service to self' and 'service to others', and in that understanding I find it difficult to comprehend the whole idea of those Sons of Belial, not being Sons of Belial, UNTIL they reach some point of 95%. In my thinking it is not the degree, but the chosen path and direction of the walk, and philosophy of the mind, that makes one either/ or.

Maybe you could further explain what lines or boundaries are seen at that degree of 95%? What exactly are the characteristics one would reveal of themselves to be at the 95% point?
Is a person not of the Sons of Belial mindset until they actually commit murder or some type of deliberate espionage agaisnt society? Does Ra give any definition of that at all? What brings a person to 95%?

From now on I will use the term Sons of Belial when speaking of STS so that it does not make it sound like I am accusing one of being at that 95% stage. I will avoid using the term Sons of Darkness because anyone that doesn't understand that the 'darkness' does not refer to evil, but reincarnation, might take that as an insult.

[Oldern]

Shin'Ar, let me add my thoughts on this matter.

It does not matter what one is considered as "STS" and "STO" is not really an exact definitin in itself. It is a tool to describe certain things, and it is DEFINITELY ( ) not something that is a label that gets stamped on your skin if you SIN.

What matters is this: upon this upcoming "Harvest" (be it a sudden event, an event that spans through several decades, whatever), individuals have the opportunity increase their abilities to sense, to understand, to contain more of the Love of the Infinite Creator. Now, that 95% "STS requirement" means that if one is really, really so set up on its goal to have as much power and control (over himself, over others, over "everything"), then it is possible to have one's existence elevated to another level. Not some kind of present for being bad, hell no. It is just that it is what he/she is aiming for, and the event of Harvest actually allows a change. This is usually mentioned in a negative way, meaning that "negative polarity 4th density" is a place full of war, being alone, continuing on the path that one choose in this manner. They want power, so they meet their opponents, be it other STS beings or STO groups set to protect other realms.

In the meantime, there is a way to possibly broaden one's existence by positive means. Integration, love, care to what we desribe as "others" - and the 51% simply means that you really are thinking for others just as much or slightly more at least, than for yourself -, then you will be a positive polarity 4th density being. By the law of attraction (what you put out is what you get back), it is obvious that as with the negative entities, here the positive beings experience more of the joy, the creation, the building of societies, harmony, connection, creation of new ideas, and most importantly: a lack of fear, mostly thanks to the new understanding without any Veils present.

What you are describing as STS and STO, based on the above post of yours, is simply a totally different viewpoint. People who bathe in the joy found in physical existence? Becoming addicted to it? There have been a lot of different teachings about this, trying to reach Nirvana by getting rid of all addictions and expectations is one of the most known - or the extreme Christian view where every joy one has has some kind of Sin attached to it, for what we should feel ashamed.

Personally, I do not agree with this. I know that these physical joys are but temporary. I know that by allowing ourselves to experience it, we obviously will experience other aspects of this existence as well - which is mainly: obesity, physical sickness, making love without finding someone who actually loves you, accidents, the ability to kill, the ability to be killed, cancer, diseases, sleepiness, being tired, sweating, being smelly and beaten in a job that let us you eat nothing but cheap food and watch tv - all these things are again a different side of the coin. I also think that is for every single individual to recognize and realize that the seeking of the pleasures is sometimes thanks to the belief system that says "if you stop this, you will be less! you will die! you will not be who you are anymore!" - and I am very happy if I am able to help someone or myself to fight these - false - beliefs. That is what one who polarizes positively usually does. By being an example, trying to help when they can.

But the whole STS/STO is - for me - totally unrelated to that. Even the definition is different. There are positive STS individuals. If a monk meditates for his own enlightment all his life, that is no service for others. It is service for self. If he attains it and does not stay incarnated like Buddha did, well..was he a "Son of Belial" then? No, I think not. And he definitely did not bathe in pleasures. If someone slaps me a face, that is what? If it gives joy to him, that is STS, but what does it say about what he does to me? If I get pleasure out of pain, will this be also STO? But if I get seriously injured thanks to that, was it a...well, I say it was a negative service for me - but also something that is totally dependent on MY belief system.

And here is where we reach our main disagreement, I believe. Because it has been said countless times that the STS beings, just being who they are, are giving us catalysts. Giving us opportunities to reflect on the actions of others and say "I am not that person. I do not want to be someone who gets greedy over money. I do not wanna screw others like they do. I do not wanna hurt others." Etc.

You know that recent Facebook group that says "We love you Iran, we would not bomb you?" If actually the majority of one country would do that when they are in war against another nation, that would mean that a few negative individual's reckless action has pushed enough people over the fenct to be able to EXPRESS THEIR LOVE over people that are perceived as being from a different nation. What is catalyst if not that?

The world is not black and white. It is an all-encompassing gold of Love, but what we do with it is totally up for each and every one of us.

[Shin'Ar]

Oldern,

I would have to ask you if you think that there is a possibility to escape from the cycle of reincarnation? And if so, how do YOU think that happens?

From what I have learned by combining the anceint religions and philosophies, they all teach that it is through the realization that we are much more than mere flesh, and that realzing our true divine nature is what brings us out of the reincarnative experience.

Your examples of enlightenment and your definition of self serving is just something that we will have to remain in disagreement over.

[Monica]

Thank you for explaining your views, Shin'Ar. I understand these concepts from the various religions.

The Law of One offers a very different perspective on the nature of physical reality altogether. In the Law of One cosmology, physical reality (what we call 3rd density) isn't something to escape. We didn't 'fall' and get sucked into Maia but in fact chose to come here for the experience, to further our evolution. It's all part of the process and this beautiful planet serves a very important purpose.

In fact, according to Ra, souls are basically waiting in line to incarnate here, and are allowed the honor and privilege of 3D incarnation on a seniority basis.

There is much more I could say, but it's really too in-depth to explain here. I invite you to read the Law of One books in their entirety, if you wish to better understand the principles this community, for the most part, accepts. This is, after all, a community dedicated the study and application of the Law of One.

For now, I will say that the reason many of us have chosen to accept the Law of One as our spiritual foundation, is precisely because of its view on the nature of physical reality and 'good vs evil.' It offers a much broader, more comprehensive, and, in my opinion, more reasonable explanation for why we're here and why there is polarity in the first place.

Respectfully, though I believe there is much truth in the various ancient religions, all of them have distortion, and trying to fit the Law of One into their structure is no different than trying to fit it into, say, Christianity. Though Truth is Truth, and Law of One concepts are certainly found in those religions, scattered like jewels hidden amidst all the dogma, the Law of One as presented to us by Ra is quite a departure from those religions, and, in my opinion, goes way beyond them.

This is why such terms as Belial may not have much application here, any more than terms like sin, salvation, etc.

I hope this helps to clarify why you have encountered resistance here. Our community doesn't respond well to 'teachers' in general, and especially when religious terminology is used.

Please know that I intend no disrespect whatsoever to your spiritual studies! You clearly do have much knowledge, and understandings to offer. You are welcome in our community. I am simply explaining why putting those concepts into the framework of the Law of One might yield much better communication and exchange of ideas with those of our community. This can best be accomplished by becoming more familiar with the material, so again I invite you to do that. Then we can discuss the Law of One with you, with your own background adding your own unique flavor, rather than have a chasm based on differing terminologies and concepts.

[Oldern]

Oldern,

I would have to ask you if you think that there is a possibility to escape from the cycle of reincarnation? And if so, how do YOU think that happens?

From what I have learned by combining the anceint religions and philosophies, they all teach that it is through the realization that we are much more than mere flesh, and that realzing our true divine nature is what brings us out of the reincarnative experience.

Your examples of enlightenment and your definition of self serving is just something that we will have to remain in disagreement over.

I think that is is a combined matter of the self and the higher self. For one, as we are all connected to some oversouls that have a specific purpose - here on Earth, to experience living under a physical existence, over a very heavy veil -, I believe that when certain souls would want to embrace more of what they are, then they are able to orchestrate a life in this Earth that presents them with the well fit opportunities for even questioning "Why?". I believe that once one is contemplating getting rid of every affection, pleasure, and phyiscality, that means that other aspects of life has already been explored enough so this incarnation can finally be about letting go of them. I am not saying it is impossible to change from an "addict" to a Buddha in a mere second - I am just saying that it is highly unlikely to happen this way.

With that being said, there are many incarnations in this planet that will not find joy in getting rid of everything that brings them pleasure or joy, and enforcing any kind of mandatory "now, you better break those shackles of physicality, or you will keep incarnating" is not only dumb, but also rather ineffective. ( And I am not assuming anyone is enforcing them to do so, of course. Just saying.)

Of course we disagree, and there is nothing wrong with disagreement. Different point of views are created for us to be able to experiment disagreement in the first place. : ) And I definitely not claim that my truth is an ultimate truth: it is my truth only, gained by observing almost ALL major religions, spiritual paths and guidelines, and experiencing some (not all, of course) of it. Hence my incompatibility with anything that says "be afraid of this, be afraid of that, be afraid cause..." and such.

[Shin'Ar]

One important thing to note with regard to my understanding of this is that as beings of such complexity this is where the whole aspect of balancing comes in.

balance is the key!

the teachings are there to point to us the reason for them. that there is a direction and purpose that evolves beyond the temporary aspects of this process in which we take part.

that done, and knowing our goal to become divine higher beings, we must now balance the acts of living, appreciating and enjoying life with leaving it to evolve into higher aspects of the creation.

With regard to Monica's note about the Fall. That is viewed in different ways among the religions. some say the Fall merely represents the Infinite Spirit entering into creation, or the creation of matter.

And there is also two types of human entities here on earth, the human that has evolved through the process of evoltuion from second density into third, AND the descendants of those interactions with higher beings that are said to have taken place in our ancient past, as well as some higher beings that came here through their own abilities.

The human is a very complex being. But none of the teachings suggest that it is wrong to enjoy life or the beauty of creation. They always suggest that getting back to nature is the best way to apprecaite our true identities as temporary, because we then see ourselves as a part of something far greater than mere flesh.

lets not forget that what we are escaping is not creation or its beauty. What we are escaping is being trapped in a cessation of our natural design because we are choosing to forget our true nature and design. In that lapse, we are NOT reaching the higher potentials of this wonderful beautiful creation that we are designed to explore.

In short we are stuck on one small island and experiencing only that, when there is an entire ocean of other experiences all around us, if we could find the way to get off of this island to explore the many other wonderful things that exists out there. We have a universe awaiting us. and we are stuck here, unaware of our options and what else is out there.