An Emotive View of STO vs. STS

[Ankh]

What a bad hangover to, choose service to self in that "instant" of third-density and wake up on the flip side of fourth density saying, "OH F*CK, what was I thinking? That's the last time I'm getting drunk on power and greed."

I cannot help but remember what that Zaxon fellow stated in his 'Greetings From The Dark' thread; "I present myself with the arrogance of one who comprehends himself as Creator".

He said that? I haven't been reading there that much lately, but I love that dude!

[native]

The negative path, as would call it, uses a combination of the yellow ray and the orange ray in its polarization patterns. These rays, used in a dedicated fashion, will bring about a contact with intelligent infinity. (32:2)

Good find. I think there is another where they emphasize how difficult it is to contact infinity through the yellow ray.

[Ankh]

Good find. I think there is another where they emphasize how difficult it is to contact infinity through the yellow ray.

In assessing the harvestable fourth-density negative, the intensity of the red as well as the orange and the yellow rays is looked upon quite carefully as a great deal of stamina and energy of this type is necessary for the negative progression, it being extremely difficult to open the gateway to intelligent infinity from the solar plexus center. This is necessary for harvest in fourth-density negative.

[Oceania]

I believe I get the gist of what you're saying, zenmaster. The entity in the process of polarization is initially not aware of the machinations of such a process, and the very process itself is not a linear one occurring in a limited number of circumstances; there are an infinite variety of ways in which it may manifest and be set in motion.

Oceania, these drugs are only considered a "shortcut to enlightenment" to those who are already not upon a spiritual path in the first place. It cannot be denied that certain states are much easier and exclusively experienced through high doses and meditation, but there also exists the problem of coming across knowledge much quicker than one is ready to receive. Merely being exposed to divine states and so-called "enlightening knowledge" is not enough, for it is INTEGRATION of what one has learned in these states into your life which is key. For a time the function they held for me was to seek an answer. I have found my answer. The function now has changed. They are no longer "keys to the gate" as I have long opened the gate, and instead now serve as tools alongside my personal spiritual and shamanic practices, the reasons varying. It is when one incorporates them into their spiritual journey as opposed to simply only going on a spiritual journey everytime they "trip" that lies the difference. Also, one should be more grateful of the various gifts the Creator has left Itself so as to better have the opportunity to jettison awakening of Itself through these gifts.

I'm not demonizing or belittling you for preferring one over the other though, just keep that in mind. If speed has served some positive purpose in your life and is not negatively affecting any aspect of your life, then nobody has any place to tell you otherwise. One point I was trying to get across though, is that it is completely and utterly impossible for speed to allow one to experience what DMT will.

i never said i prefer one over the other. i don't do drugs and the speed i did was prescribed by a doctor. but it expanded my mind in a permanent way. also, i would never do DMT or anything like that, and i don't care for short cuts. people often aren't ready for what they see in shortcuts, or they can't keep the realizations. i could, via speed, because it was not a trip, it was something that changed me.

if you think that's less worthy than some mushrooms then go ahead but don't tell me what to think. it's these blanket statements that say one thing is always superior to another that irk me. you don't get to say what another person experiences or what it's worth.

---

also i never said i wasn't grateful or that they served no purpose. but to place them in some superior position is just silly. they can be used to awaken, but why need them after that?

[native]

.. it being extremely difficult to open the gateway to intelligent infinity from the solar plexus center. This is necessary for harvest in fourth-density negative.

There it is.

[Plenum]

spiritual pride

well, that wasn't very helpful was it plenum?

how about? -

- -

StS = separation
StO = respect

- -

but I think you already said that, so I bow my humble knee.

blessings

[zenmaster]

Positive entities should be able to do the same.

[godwide_void]

I believe I get the gist of what you're saying, zenmaster. The entity in the process of polarization is initially not aware of the machinations of such a process, and the very process itself is not a linear one occurring in a limited number of circumstances; there are an infinite variety of ways in which it may manifest and be set in motion.

Oceania, these drugs are only considered a "shortcut to enlightenment" to those who are already not upon a spiritual path in the first place. It cannot be denied that certain states are much easier and exclusively experienced through high doses and meditation, but there also exists the problem of coming across knowledge much quicker than one is ready to receive. Merely being exposed to divine states and so-called "enlightening knowledge" is not enough, for it is INTEGRATION of what one has learned in these states into your life which is key. For a time the function they held for me was to seek an answer. I have found my answer. The function now has changed. They are no longer "keys to the gate" as I have long opened the gate, and instead now serve as tools alongside my personal spiritual and shamanic practices, the reasons varying. It is when one incorporates them into their spiritual journey as opposed to simply only going on a spiritual journey everytime they "trip" that lies the difference. Also, one should be more grateful of the various gifts the Creator has left Itself so as to better have the opportunity to jettison awakening of Itself through these gifts.

I'm not demonizing or belittling you for preferring one over the other though, just keep that in mind. If speed has served some positive purpose in your life and is not negatively affecting any aspect of your life, then nobody has any place to tell you otherwise. One point I was trying to get across though, is that it is completely and utterly impossible for speed to allow one to experience what DMT will.

i never said i prefer one over the other. i don't do drugs and the speed i did was prescribed by a doctor. but it expanded my mind in a permanent way. also, i would never do DMT or anything like that, and i don't care for short cuts. people often aren't ready for what they see in shortcuts, or they can't keep the realizations. i could, via speed, because it was not a trip, it was something that changed me.

if you think that's less worthy than some mushrooms then go ahead but don't tell me what to think. it's these blanket statements that say one thing is always superior to another that irk me. you don't get to say what another person experiences or what it's worth.

---

also i never said i wasn't grateful or that they served no purpose. but to place them in some superior position is just silly. they can be used to awaken, but why need them after that?

I wasn't aware that speed could be doctor prescribed and I apologize for misunderstanding your relation with it. Though, I'm in no way attempting to tell you what to think. I'm merely offering my own stance on the matter, my opinion being that there is a hierarchy of usefulness and effectivity with them. Compare a shaman to a crackhead and therein lies the (albeit general and stereotypically oriented) distinction. Regarding their usage after they have lead to awakening, ritualistic usage for divine communion amongst other things. It was not my intention to offend you in any way Oceania, and I deeply apologize if I have 'ruffled your feathers', so to speak.

[Oceania]

the magic you make, no matter what your ingredients, are always up to YOU to make the best out of. you CANNOT make a hierarchy out of it. it's unique to individuals. i can't stress this enough.

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and comparing my experiences to that of a crackhead is ruffling my feathers just SLIGHTLY.

[BrownEye]

the magic you make, no matter what your ingredients, are always up to YOU to make the best out of. you CANNOT make a hierarchy out of it. it's unique to individuals. i can't stress this enough.

---

and comparing my experiences to that of a crackhead is ruffling my feathers just SLIGHTLY.

This made me laugh LoL.

I do agree with the use of entheogens, by grounded stable people.

But I see too many people that don't have any clue about anything beyond normal eyesight that want to scratch or cut off the bugs they see all over their skin.

They don't realize the amount of (astral) critters that feed on them on a daily basis LMAO! And if they suddenly see their skin crawling with them it can make them do something really stupid.

[Oceania]

i had some of the most profound and beautiful experiences on speed, i do not appreciate you condescendinly telling me how some drugs are better than others. everyone has unique experiences and mine as just as valid as yours.

---

the magic you make, no matter what your ingredients, are always up to YOU to make the best out of. you CANNOT make a hierarchy out of it. it's unique to individuals. i can't stress this enough.

---

and comparing my experiences to that of a crackhead is ruffling my feathers just SLIGHTLY.

This made me laugh LoL.

I do agree with the use of entheogens, by grounded stable people.

But I see too many people that don't have any clue about anything beyond normal eyesight that want to scratch or cut off the bugs they see all over their skin.

They don't realize the amount of (astral) critters that feed on them on a daily basis LMAO! And if they suddenly see their skin crawling with them it can make them do something really stupid.

ok it is kinda funny.

[godwide_void]

Once again I apologize Oceania as I do not mean to come across as condescending, only informative and opinionated on this matter. I also am NOT equating you to the likes of a junkie and only offered the example of the shaman and the crackhead as depicting the extreme end of the spectrum for both classes of psychoactive substances. I am not at all doubtful that you have had some beautiful experiences with speed (nor that you are a beautiful person) as I am very aware that there is no clear-cut "black and white" in regards to this (or anything, for that matter). Some people can function for years on opiates without falling into addiction or fiendish mindsets, and some people can end up completely "frying their brains" as is so termed on LSD. In no way am I nor did I attempt to invalidate your own experiences or those of others, and why would you assume I did? No experience is above another, and all have value in their own ways. Besides, in what way would any experience of mine cancel out yours if none of them are contrary to any truths you personally hold? I wholeheartedly agree with what you stated here:

the magic you make, no matter what your ingredients, are always up to YOU to make the best out of. you CANNOT make a hierarchy out of it. it's unique to individuals. i can't stress this enough.

Though perhaps I should not have used the term "hierarchy" when I was implying my own personal preference and ranking for these things based on my own experiences and perspectives. What completely works for one person and how it works for that person can never overlap with others in most cases, though I still stand by my notion that there are certain benefits and functions central to one thing/tool which cannot be found in another, thus there are indeed certain things which can be more useful than another in varying ways.

Now Oceania, you have seen the zealousness I hold in my devotion to the Creator which you may gather from the posts I have made here. I view you and respect you as an equally unique and powerful aspect of the Creator as I do with any whom I exchange thoughts with. I admit that had I not made such rash generalizations this tension between us would not have arisen, and I will take this as a learning experience in regards to the manner in which I present myself when engaging in a discussion I am highly opinionated about.

In short,

[Agua del Cielo]

Iam really with the OP here, in so far, as i just cant see no possible benefit from those countless polarization threads that are completely abstract and intellectual.
It would, in my opinion, only lead to more and more superficial viewing of the topic.

I would say, in the end its pretty easy.
When we get to know ourselves, we realize our deeper motivation behind actions.
Then it would not be so difficult to distinguish between sts and sto.

If, however, we rather do not want to know ourselves on a deeper level, for whatever reason, abstraction and intellectualization would probably be be the best way to avoid deeper knowlegde of ourselves.
I think, i had my more than fair share of this, we are afraid of what we might find.
And i guess this is mostly about unprocessed catalyst, that we try to avoid. Abstraction and intellectualization are probably the exact opposite of emotions, so how could one avoid emotions better?

Someone in this thread quoted the sts path Ra statement about "trying to contact intelligent infinity by a combination of orange and yellow ray".
Sts would try to bypass the green ray.
One could think abaou that

I have, on the other hand, a deep understanding of this abstractism thing. Still i have to admit, it sometimes annoys me in a way, and i dont think this will lead anywhere.

We, on this planet behindthe veil, are a mixture of both paths anyway. This can probably not be avoided.
There is so much we dont realize yet, so much to discover yet, so many mistakes to make to gain insight.
We are all learning.

[Sena]

The predominate problematic factor with this whole STO vs. STS business is the common tendency amongst several members here to seemingly over-conceptualize and compartmentalize these concepts. It is not rocket science; these terms were chosen by Ra and both 'paths' were deemed equally valid due to their having transcended polarity in the highly evolved state of being they hold at their current nexus. It is necessary to filter these terms so as to better apply them to our world, and when this is done the following definitions apply:

STO = displaying and acting from a place of kindness, compassion, seeking to assist others for any reason in any way

STS = self-gratification at the expense of others, perceiving no value in others other than how they may be of use to you, manipulation, greed, extreme arrogance, actions stemming from such unskillful states of mind

Thanks for these clear definitions.