The Tunguska event

[Lavazza]

Hey guys,

Whilst reading the latest issue of 'Edge Science', which is published by the Scientific Society for Exploration, I came across an interesting article that basically disproves that the Tunguska event of 1908 might have been caused by an asteroid of meteorite as is commonly accepted as the cause by the scientific community. In fact- it points to some rather interesting anomalies. As I was reading I kept in my mind the information Ra shared about this event... Read below. But first read the article, here (issue #5): http://www.scientificexploration.org/edgescience/

17.3 Questioner: In meditation I got the question about the crater in Russia in the, I believe, Tunguska region. Can you tell me what caused the crater?

Ra: I am Ra. The destruction of a fission reactor caused this crater.

17.4 Questioner: Whose reactor?

Ra: I am Ra. This was what you may call a “drone” sent by Confederation which malfunctioned. It was moved to an area where its destruction would not cause infringement upon the will of mind/body/spirit complexes. It was then detonated.

17.5 Questioner: What was its purpose in coming here?

Ra: It was a drone designed to listen to the various signals of your peoples. You were, at that time, beginning work in a more technical sphere. We were interested in determining the extent and the rapidity of your advances. This drone was powered by a simple fission motor or engine as you would call it. It was not that type which you now know, but was very small. However, it has the same destructive effect upon third-density molecular structures. Thus as it malfunctioned we felt it was best to pick a place for its destruction rather than attempt to retrieve it, for the possibility/probability modes for this maneuver looked very, very minute.

17.6 Questioner: Was its danger both blast and radiation?

Ra: I am Ra. There is very little radiation, as you know of it, in this particular type of device. There is radiation which is localized, but the localization is such that it does not drift with the winds as does the emission of your somewhat primitive weapons.

17.7 Questioner: I believe that analysis has detected very little radiation in the trees in this area. Is this low level of radiation a result of what you are speaking of?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The amount of radiation is very localized. However, the energy which is released is powerful enough to cause difficulties.

- The lack of typical elements in the soil points towards something besides a celestial object falling in to Earth's atmosphere
- The "second" object as discussed in the article may be a Confederation projectile aimed at the failing device
- The lack of human deaths might imply that it was a pre-determined location for the explosion
- The rapid growth of the trees following the event might be Confederation Love and Light being beamed towards that area, for healing.

What do you think?

L&L ~Lavazza

[Aaron]

Wow, that's an amazing discovery, Lavazza! (Or re-discovery for some of us, I suppose.) Thank you for sharing.

[Monica]

I don't see a link to the actual article. Can you post it? thanks

[Lavazza]

yup! http://www.scientificexploration.org/edg...nce_05.pdf

[LsavedSmeD]

I like this quote especially -

Having at our disposal all this data, we are led towards accepting
Kazantsev’s “Alien Spacecraft” hypothesis as probably
worthy of further consideration, even if in a modified form.
It seems conceivable that in the morning of June 30, 1908,
two artificial objects flew over Central Siberia and one of them
exploded at Tunguska due to its internal energy. Whether this
event should have been interpreted as an “aerospace combat”
or as a “failed rescue operation” is a matter of conjecture. All
experienced Tunguska specialists agree that this problem will

Good find. More credibility once again.

[βαθμιαίος]

Wow, fascinating, and thanks for posting. It's starting to seem like Tunguska could quite legitimately be moved to the "Ra's claims verified by science" thread.

LsavedSmeD, I was just about to post that quote! I like this one, too:

...the TSB’s explosion must have been produced by its internal energy (chemical, nuclear, or other).

It's intriguing that they may have found artificial metallic particles.

[Questioner]

Intriguing, Lavazza, thank you. The magazine you provided had a lot of interesting information. This topics seems one where Wikipedia is actually pretty useful. I tried to track down some further information about the Russian science fiction author who visited Hiroshima, in case anyone had translated his work to English. Couldn't find any reference to a translation.

Wow, fascinating, and thanks for posting. It's starting to seem like Tunguska could quite legitimately be moved to the "Ra's claims verified by science" thread.

I think this is more what one science show calls "plausible," rather than "confirmed." Or, "Ra's claims that human science has to concede are mysteries it hasn't yet solved."

[Lavazza]

Intriguing, Lavazza, thank you. The magazine you provided had a lot of interesting information.

Definitely... each article they publish would make excellent thread topics here (at Bring4th)!

I think this is more what one science show calls "plausible," rather than "confirmed." Or, "Ra's claims that human science has to concede are mysteries it hasn't yet solved."

Also agreed. I rather wished that that thread had a subject line as you wrote it- I think slim to none of it is 'confirmed', speaking in the spirit of science. Plausible is the better word there, I think.

~L

[Questioner]

I rather wished that that thread had a subject line as you wrote it

If you were the original author of the thread, the mods might be open to changing the title. (I presume they have that ability, which seems a magical working to those on the lower density of user roles.)

[Lavazza]

http://www.astronomycast.com/2011/12/ep-...ska-event/

[Diana]

- The lack of human deaths might imply that it was a pre-determined location for the explosion

It is distressing to me that the Confederation would cause this kind of damage: trees, and all the other life forms that were affected. So what if no human life was affected; human life is not the only life.

http://www.tunguskaevent.net/
The massive explosion, blast, or shock wave was so powerful that is leveled or flattened over 100 million plus trees in an area covering over 850 sure miles. Here is a picture of the flattened trees from the Tunguska blast.

[Lavazza]

It is distressing to me that the Confederation would cause this kind of damage: trees, and all the other life forms that were affected. So what if no human life was affected; human life is not the only life.

I interpret the move as being the best option in a limited option scenario. I.e. any other option would have resulted in more damage.

[AnthroHeart]

I guess they couldn't have teleported it into space. Or maybe that would have caused more damage.

[Oceania]

why do these advanced beings make such bloopers? doesn't give me hope for eventual perfectness of things.

[Parsons]

I think that the fallacy of these "ETs" is one of the most comforting things I have run across reading/consuming Q'uo and other material. If they are infallible... then I couldn't possibly be "one" with them as they would be truly "alien" to me. If everyone made the exact correct / most efficient decision every single time (even for more advanced beings than us), things would get very boring very fast. And to me, "perfection" and "idealism" go hand in hand. We have all seen what idolatry has done to this world (*coughorganizedreligionscough*).

Personally, I don't think I could accomplish anything that I could describe as "perfection" in this density and even in 4 - 7th density I could imagine myself still considering that a quite lofty goal.

[AnthroHeart]

I believe perfection would imply a standstill, as nothing would need to evolve or change.

[Parsons]

I believe perfection would imply a standstill, as nothing would need to evolve or change.

YES! Very well put. Thats essentially what I was trying to say but I just stuck my foot in my mouth a bit.

[Diana]

why do these advanced beings make such bloopers? doesn't give me hope for eventual perfectness of things.

For me, it has less to do with perfection at some point, and more to do with this event sounding like a 3D human blunder. Humans disregard life, especially life other than human. Why would the Confederation allow so much destruction? Wouldn't they have a way to avoid loss of life? Or are they just as inept technologically as humans? Why couldn't they use sound, or create a tiny black hole or something to prevent all that loss of life? It doesn't make sense, unless the Confederation is not advanced or evolved at all.

[Oldern]

Diana, how could it not make sense?
Confederation is not advanced or evolved?

Because some trees and some animals died?
I do not want to sound rude, but the alternative (3rd density death) is worse than 1st/2nd density "damage", especially when this reality is such that you can always come back again, and again, and again. I am pretty sure that the Tree social memory complex lovingly accepted that tiny sacrifice it had to make in order to not make a fuss over a fusion reactor blowing up o_o

And do not take this the wrong way: I would love if no life would be lost, but life as such - when experienced as being a part of something bigger in lower densities - are designed to end, always. That does not mean that the Confederation is dumb or selfish or not advanced.

---

I think that the fallacy of these "ETs" is one of the most comforting things I have run across reading/consuming Q'uo and other material. If they are infallible... then I couldn't possibly be "one" with them as they would be truly "alien" to me. If everyone made the exact correct / most efficient decision every single time (even for more advanced beings than us), things would get very boring very fast. And to me, "perfection" and "idealism" go hand in hand. We have all seen what idolatry has done to this world (*coughorganizedreligionscough*).

Personally, I don't think I could accomplish anything that I could describe as "perfection" in this density and even in 4 - 7th density I could imagine myself still considering that a quite lofty goal.

Yes. I imagine that being on higher levels, we will make many mistakes as mistakes are designed to be a huge part in the learning process. And we are moving, we are evolving as long as there are things to learn. What happened to a lot of civilizations (like Maldek, Atlantis, etc) pointed flaws out in the design of this Logos and its veil probably, and that is why they have set up this drone in the first place (imho). Of course they would make no mistakes if they did not try to observer us more closely - for our own sake.

[Diana]

Because some trees and some animals died?
I do not want to sound rude, but the alternative (3rd density death) is worse than 1st/2nd density "damage", especially when this reality is such that you can always come back again, and again, and again. I am pretty sure that the Tree social memory complex lovingly accepted that tiny sacrifice it had to make in order to not make a fuss over a fusion reactor blowing up o_o

Do you think that one life is more important than another? If you do, what "density" would you put this belief into?

Why is 3rd density life more sacred or important than 2nd density life? (You can also come back and back again in 3rd density.) Do you think that 6th density life is more sacred or important than 5th density life?

Do you think that testing products on animals for the sake of humans is okay, for instance?

How can you be so sure that those millions of trees, and all the other life--insects, animals, grasses and all the plants, etc.--agreed to it? And if they did, wouldn't that seem weird, that 2nd density beings would be more compassionate than humans? Humans certainly don't do the reverse for 2nd density beings. Doesn't this fly in the face of the whole "density" thing?

I can't think that "advanced beings" in the "Confederation" could make the human judgment that trees and animals were less valuable than humans.

[Oldern]

You are throwing me a lot of questions, Diana. The majority of those questions are usually thrown when someone behaves in a way that seems to support animal killings (which I do not support at all), animals being treated poorly while trying new medicines on them (which I do not support at all), or places one life above the other (which I did not).

Yet, here you are, bringing absolutely flawed, untouchable human concepts into an event that Ra described as a somewhat hasty saving of a lot of lives. Valuable? What is value to you? Everything is one. All is one. Everyone is part of the Creator. No value is ever lost.

What differentiates 3rd density from the densities before it is the presence of Free Will. This has been stated many times in the Law of One and in other places. That obviously means that the FOCUS is in this reality on the 3rd density beings. That does not mean that we get to not love the animals and the plants. It means that we get to choose whether we love them or not.

They? They love us all ;) Therefore if the destruction would have happened where there is a lot of people, animals AND plants AND trees would have died, compared to a damage dealt to a limited zone, mostly to trees (also note the rapid tree growth part).

You sound like you are trying to blame them for doing what they did. If you are maintaining a little garden and you see a tree having an infection on one of its branches, you cut the branch off usually. That does not mean that you hated that branch or that you could not have called in some experts if you had enough time (which, based on Ra's words, they clearly did not have the luxury of having). You love your garden, do not you? We all do, at some point, I guess. They love us equally.

In this density, our society's maintained free will was so important that they have placed a force field around this planetary sphere to keep the interference to a minimum. Judging by that, it is obvious that the main goal in this planet is to move into 4th density, not to preserve life of 2nd and 1st density beings. If you preserve something, you freeze it, you freeze change itself. That is not healthy to a learning experience, but that is not my point here.

[Parsons]

For me, it has less to do with perfection at some point, and more to do with this event sounding like a 3D human blunder. Humans disregard life, especially life other than human. Why would the Confederation allow so much destruction? Wouldn't they have a way to avoid loss of life? Or are they just as inept technologically as humans? Why couldn't they use sound, or create a tiny black hole or something to prevent all that loss of life? It doesn't make sense, unless the Confederation is not advanced or evolved at all.

I hate to answer a question with a question, but: Why would the Confederation let the Orion group or other STS groups take over this planet and enslave us and suppress us, etc etc?

I think what you are describing is more like omnipotence... They have limits. Ra states that "Thus as it malfunctioned we felt it was best to pick a place for its destruction rather than attempt to retrieve it, for the possibility/probability modes for this maneuver looked very, very minute."

So it sounds like they thought it was physically possible to retrieve the probe without it self-destructing in our atmosphere, but the odds were remote at best. And what if another failure / mistake occurred in the process... such as it detonating over a city or crashing and being retrieved semi-intact by humans that might blow themselves after reverse-engineering some extremely advanced technology.

[Diana]

You are throwing me a lot of questions, Diana. The majority of those questions are usually thrown when someone behaves in a way that seems to support animal killings (which I do not support at all), animals being treated poorly while trying new medicines on them (which I do not support at all), or places one life above the other (which I did not).

Okay. It just seemed cavalier to say:

"Because some trees and some animals died?"

What differentiates 3rd density from the densities before it is the presence of Free Will. This has been stated many times in the Law of One and in other places. That obviously means that the FOCUS is in this reality on the 3rd density beings. That does not mean that we get to not love the animals and the plants. It means that we get to choose whether we love them or not.

This sounds like you are saying that 3rd density is only for 3rd density beings, and whoever else is here--2nd and 1st density beings--they don't count. Aren't 2D animals trying to attain 3D here in this density as we are trying to attain 4D?

You sound like you are trying to blame them for doing what they did.

Not at all. I am not blaming. I don't "believe" everything I read. I question the Ra material when it doesn't make sense. I am questioning that "advanced beings" of the "Condeferation" would make such a blunder with no better way to handle it.

In this density, our society's maintained free will was so important that they have placed a force field around this planetary sphere to keep the interference to a minimum. Judging by that, it is obvious that the main goal in this planet is to move into 4th density, not to preserve life of 2nd and 1st density beings. If you preserve something, you freeze it, you freeze change itself. That is not healthy to a learning experience, but that is not my point here.

No one is talking about preserving, I am talking about having respect for all life. How about to have compassion? Isn't that the prerequisite of 4th density? Is compassion only for humans? Aren't animals and plants other-selves?

[Oldern]

You can love something, have compassion and still forced to do something that terminates one incarnation in what is a series of countless incarnations. I interpret the action of Confederation simply as a last resort, as they have described it through Ra as well.

Compassion and love are not excluding to terminating a temporary life. Life itself is indestructible. You cannot destroy anything that is the part of the Creator. That is kinda my point. They understand it perfectly well what plants dying means (btw, I think that 1st/2nd density beings count, but in this case, this was not even a factor... really.)

Again: just think about how 7,000,000,000 people are eating every day. Majority of those eat meat. Which means that in order to maintain their 3rd density incarnations, they terminate 2d incarnations all the time. Is that considered bad by you? You are free to stop doing it. But every individual has its own free will, as that is the POINT for being here. You cannot decide for others what to do, but you can love them and allow them to do whatever they do. Even if you perceive it as something bad.

I do not want to turn this into a net argument when there is nothing to lose or gain by "winning" it, so sorry if it felt like I was attacking you or animals/plants right to live. I was not. I was just shocked for a moment because I was not used to this kind of questioning when it comes to higher density being's actions, especially at a case which was quite harmless to our Earth as a whole.

[Parsons]

The way I understand the way a forest works as described in the LOO and other similar sources is they end up being a mind/body/spirit complex as a whole. So if you imagine for a moment the whole organism of the forest being "damaged" as one might injure their body(destroying that portion of flesh). But this damaged portion was healed via enhanced re-growth / healing of the area. So it would be more like recovering from an injury in the case of the forest, not like millions of unique awareness's of each tree getting killed.

I'm sure there was some fauna was killed along with all the flora, though. I'm sure these factors were carefully considered(their compassion for all life, weighed against the particularly complicated fragile state our planetary societal structure takes on) by the confederation and they would have detonated it out in space or recovered it if they thought the could have done so safely.

Edited: for dropped word

[Diana]

Again: just think about how 7,000,000,000 people are eating every day. Majority of those eat meat. Which means that in order to maintain their 3rd density incarnations, they terminate 2d incarnations all the time. Is that considered bad by you? You are free to stop doing it. But every individual has its own free will, as that is the POINT for being here. You cannot decide for others what to do, but you can love them and allow them to do whatever they do. Even if you perceive it as something bad.

No one "needs" to eat meat as far as I know, unless they have some rare physiology. It is a choice.

I respect free will. I do not eat meat (for 19 years now), and there is much said on that in the thread: In Regards to Eating Meat.

I do try and walk my talk. I respect all life.

I do not want to turn this into a net argument when there is nothing to lose or gain by "winning" it, so sorry if it felt like I was attacking you or animals/plants right to live. I was not. I was just shocked for a moment because I was not used to this kind of questioning when it comes to higher density being's actions, especially at a case which was quite harmless to our Earth as a whole.

For my part, I can't imagine considering the destruction of 100-million+ trees, and the ecosystems around them, quite harmless.

It is always good to question; the higher beings will not mind. We as humans all need to wake up and question everything, rather than following (look where religions have gotten us).

No offense taken, no argument perceived. This is discussion, and I welcome all points of view. Being part of this community has exposed me to many new and interesting points of view and perspectives.

[Lavazza]

Hey Diana!

I like the spirit of your questioning. I too attempt to try and rationally evaluate things I read, be them in the Ra material or elsewhere.

Anyways, I think that it might be helpful to let go of the idea that these beings are quite as advanced as you are describing them to be. It's easy to fall in to that mode of thinking, but they are not gods. Just further down the road than we are. Perhaps if they were wiser (no insult to the Confederation implied) the scenario of a malfunctioning nuclear drone wouldn't have come up at all because they would have some more sophisticated means.

Such as it was, I still believe they most likely went ahead with the solution in which they felt minimized destruction of any kind.

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder if first they saw an explosion happen in the probability vortexes and then worked to avoid it. Or if they could tell right away the drone was malfunctioning.

[Cyan]

You are throwing me a lot of questions, Diana. The majority of those questions are usually thrown when someone behaves in a way that seems to support animal killings (which I do not support at all), animals being treated poorly while trying new medicines on them (which I do not support at all), or places one life above the other (which I did not).

Okay. It just seemed cavalier to say:

"Because some trees and some animals died?"

What differentiates 3rd density from the densities before it is the presence of Free Will. This has been stated many times in the Law of One and in other places. That obviously means that the FOCUS is in this reality on the 3rd density beings. That does not mean that we get to not love the animals and the plants. It means that we get to choose whether we love them or not.

This sounds like you are saying that 3rd density is only for 3rd density beings, and whoever else is here--2nd and 1st density beings--they don't count. Aren't 2D animals trying to attain 3D here in this density as we are trying to attain 4D?

You sound like you are trying to blame them for doing what they did.

Not at all. I am not blaming. I don't "believe" everything I read. I question the Ra material when it doesn't make sense. I am questioning that "advanced beings" of the "Condeferation" would make such a blunder with no better way to handle it.

In this density, our society's maintained free will was so important that they have placed a force field around this planetary sphere to keep the interference to a minimum. Judging by that, it is obvious that the main goal in this planet is to move into 4th density, not to preserve life of 2nd and 1st density beings. If you preserve something, you freeze it, you freeze change itself. That is not healthy to a learning experience, but that is not my point here.

No one is talking about preserving, I am talking about having respect for all life. How about to have compassion? Isn't that the prerequisite of 4th density? Is compassion only for humans? Aren't animals and plants other-selves?

[/quote]

Just to chime in here. My belief is that 2nd density creatures are by and large far more compassionate than 3rd density. Compassion seems to vanish the higher up you go in the system then merging to a entire new platou on the 6th.

My experience is that compassion vanishes as intelligence increases. Only to merge back into the process once intelligence reaches a certain point of "we are all one".

So yes, I believe that the 2D entities more than gladly participated in the experience. But, that being said. What the confederation does to the 2D entities is the confederations choices and their karmic responsibility. What we do to 2D entities is our karmic responsibility.

Personally, I'd suggest we rush the dev of those bio genetic developements that would allow the growth of pure meat in laboratory conditions. If for nothing else than the fact that it would finally free us from the "requirement" of killing animals for food.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat

Then again, I'm a big believer in not simply observing suffering but seeking to give people and entities the possibility, if not the probability of, not killing each other for fun.

[Diana]

Hey Diana!

I like the spirit of your questioning. I too attempt to try and rationally evaluate things I read, be them in the Ra material or elsewhere.

Anyways, I think that it might be helpful to let go of the idea that these beings are quite as advanced as you are describing them to be. It's easy to fall in to that mode of thinking, but they are not gods. Just further down the road than we are. Perhaps if they were wiser (no insult to the Confederation implied) the scenario of a malfunctioning nuclear drone wouldn't have come up at all because they would have some more sophisticated means.

Such as it was, I still believe they most likely went ahead with the solution in which they felt minimized destruction of any kind.

Thanks.

I didn't mean to imply that the Confederation would be godlike. But even if they were just a tiny bit more advanced than 3D humans, it seems like they could have handled it better (assuming there is a Confederation, and assuming they were responsible for Tunguska).

It may be as you have described, but then if it was, I would agree with Oceania that it doesn't bode well for advancement if the Confederation is that inept.

---

Just to chime in here. My belief is that 2nd density creatures are by and large far more compassionate than 3rd density. Compassion seems to vanish the higher up you go in the system then merging to a entire new platou on the 6th.

My experience is that compassion vanishes as intelligence increases. Only to merge back into the process once intelligence reaches a certain point of "we are all one".

That may be intimated in certain channelings or teachings, but I could not make sense of that. 5D may be more focused on knowledge, but after having been 4D, one wouldn't DEvolve back to no compassion. One would change focus perhaps, but not lose what one has gained, unless one went back to 3D for the lessons.

So yes, I believe that the 2D entities more than gladly participated in the experience. But, that being said. What the confederation does to the 2D entities is the confederations choices and their karmic responsibility. What we do to 2D entities is our karmic responsibility.

This is true about responsibility. About the 2D entities gladly participating--I'm not so sure. I don't know about plants, but I have felt "feelings" from individual trees, although they may still be part of a system. And animals definitely do not want to die. Of course, the bigger picture is that all things go on. But that is not a good reason to just let life die.

Personally, I'd suggest we rush the dev of those bio genetic developements that would allow the growth of pure meat in laboratory conditions. If for nothing else than the fact that it would finally free us from the "requirement" of killing animals for food.

It is not a requirement to kill animals for food. However, since so many humans are attached to eating animals, then this would be a good alternative as an interim measure.

I am fairly certain that any advanced culture beyond 3D would find a way to obtain the healthiest food (not meat--it's not healthy) with no cruelty, or against the wishes of the animal. If you have ever hunted or seen an animal slaughtered, you will know they did not want it.