Whoa, Nelly!!!!! LSD used in Ra channeling sessions????

[Sacred Fool]

I'm just now reading the wiki version of the Ra Material. Session 18 talks of distortions happening because the chemical substance is wearing off called [TAPE BLANK]... Footnote says Book V calls it LSD. http://wiki.lawofone.info/index.php/Ra_Session_18

Session 18 of The Law of One by Ra, An Humble Messenger
February 4, 1981

Ra: [I am Ra.] [1] I greet you in the love and the light of the infinite Creator. We communicate now.

Questioner: I was thinking last night that if I were in the place of Ra at this time, the first distortion of the Law of One might cause me to mix some erroneous data with the true information that I was transmitting to this group. Do you do this?

Ra: I am Ra. We do not intentionally do this. However, there will be confusion. The errors which have occurred have occurred due to the occasional variation in the vibrational complex of this instrument due to its ingestion of a chemical substance. It is not our intent in this particular project to create erroneous information but to express in the confining ambiance of your language system the feeling of the infinite mystery of the one creation in its infinite and intelligent unity.

Questioner: Can you tell me what the chemical substance is that was ingested and causes the poor contact?

Ra: I am Ra. This is not a clear query. Could you please restate?

Questioner: You just stated that you had some problems with the instrument because of the ingestion by the instrument of some chemical substance. Can you tell me what the substance was?

Ra: I am Ra. The substance of which we speak is called vibra— [tape blank] [2]. It does not give poor contact if it is used in conjunction with the contact. The difficulty of this particular substance is that there is, shall we say, a very dramatic drop-off of the effect of this substance. In each case this instrument began the session with the distortion towards extreme vital energy which this substance produces. However, this entity was, during the session, at the point where this substance no longer was in sufficient strength to amplify the entity’s abilities to express vital energy. Thus, first the phenomenon of, shall we say, a spotty contact and then, as the instrument relies again upon its own vibrational complexes of vital energy, the vital energy being in this case very low, it became necessary to abruptly cut off communication in order to preserve and nurture the instrument. This particular chemical substance is both helpful and unhelpful in these contacts for the causes given.

[2] In Book V, the missing words were published as “sound complex, LSD.” However, on the copy of the tape, the indicated section had been erased.

By the time Book V came out a few years ago I didn't feel the need to read it and this is the first time I've read the material on-line.

This is a big shock to me. I've never seen it written that "This material was channeled by Carla Rueckert while she was tripping on acid."

Can someone please explain this? Thanks very much.

PS, What does this say about those moon bases?

[kylissa]

I don't mean to speculate or speak for Carla here but somewhere in the LOO materials it explains how a friend offered her LSD once during a recreational time during the years of the Ra contact and Carla used the experience in a positive way, yet like all drugs it damaged vitals for a period of time afterwards. Using LSD creates a type of "hole" in the aura that is susceptible to psychic attacks and seemingly permanent. The trance channeling sessions were a separate situation and not done under the influence of any drugs to my knowlege and on the contrary it required more intake of food and exercise and overall healthy behavior on the team's part. I think what Ra is referring to is the substance still technically being in Carla's system during that session although time had passed.

[Monica]

This is a big shock to me. I've never seen it written that "This material was channeled by Carla Rueckert while she was tripping on acid."

Can someone please explain this? Thanks very much.

PS, What does this say about those moon bases?

Would you feel shocked if you learned that a channeler had been taking, say, anti-depressants or something like that?

It seems to me that any drug could affect the contact.

Ra didn't seem too concerned about it, and seemed to indicate that efforts were made to correct any errors; Ra also seemed more concerned about her vital energy.

I'm still puzzled as to why so many people seem to be concerned about the moon bases. I've seen several videos on youtube by people who have nothing to do with the Law of One who claim there are moon bases. This doesn't mean it's true, of course! But it does indicate that, unrelated to the Law of One, others have reasons to think that, so it might not be quite as far-fetched as it might seem.

---

Using LSD creates a type of "hole" in the aura that is susceptible to psychic attacks and seemingly permanent.

Can you please tell us what that's based on? I've heard this before but have never known anyone to really back it up.

[ayadew]

Can you please tell us what that's based on? I've heard this before but have never known anyone to really back it up.

Ra, session 6

We proceed now with the third area of the teach/learning concerning the development of the energy powers of healing.

The third area is the spiritual complex which embodies the fields of force and consciousness which are the least distorted of your mind/body/spirit complex. The exploration and balancing of the spirit complex is indeed the longest and most subtle part of your learn/teaching. We have considered the mind as a tree. The mind controls the body. With the mind single-pointed, balanced, and aware, the body comfortable in whatever biases and distortions make it appropriately balanced for that instrument, the instrument is then ready to proceed with the greater work.

That is the work of wind and fire. The spiritual body energy field is a pathway, or channel. When body and mind are receptive and open, then the spirit can become a functioning shuttle or communicator from the entity’s individual energy of will upwards, and from the streamings of the creative fire and wind downwards.

The healing ability, like all other, what this instrument would call, paranormal abilities, is effected by the opening of a pathway or shuttle into intelligent infinity. There are many upon your plane who have a random hole or gateway in their spirit energy field, sometimes created by the ingestion of chemicals such as, what this instrument would call LSD, who are able, randomly and without control, to tap into energy sources. They may or may not be entities who wish to serve. The purpose of carefully and consciously opening this channel is to serve in a more dependable way, in a more commonplace or usual way, as seen by the distortion complex of the healer. To others there may appear to be miracles. To the one who has carefully opened the door to intelligent infinity this is ordinary; this is commonplace; this is as it should be. The life experience becomes somewhat transformed and the great work goes on.

[Turtle]

I have no idea about the "hole in your aura" type effect from drugs, but the danger of an unprepared mind taking any hard drug is definitely an obvious problem. It can leave you "stuck in crazy mode" if you're not ready for it..and there are so many different factors that can effect the outcome of the "trip" one goes on.

A risky thing, not necessarily worth the risk. Funny though, because it was just such an event that sparked my spiritual search from the get go.

As for Carla's apparent LSD usage, eh, whatever. I'm glad the trio was able to communicate with Ra, obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be on this site, lol.

Drugs have a way of temporarily lifting the veil, I know this from experience. It's just not something done lightly or without much care and guidance.

[Monica]

The healing ability, like all other, what this instrument would call, paranormal abilities, is effected by the opening of a pathway or shuttle into intelligent infinity. There are many upon your plane who have a random hole or gateway in their spirit energy field, sometimes created by the ingestion of chemicals such as, what this instrument would call LSD, who are able, randomly and without control, to tap into energy sources. They may or may not be entities who wish to serve. The purpose of carefully and consciously opening this channel is to serve in a more dependable way, in a more commonplace or usual way, as seen by the distortion complex of the healer.

Ah! Thanks for the quote! (Maybe it's time for me to re-read the books again, eh.)

Well, in that case then maybe it would be a good idea to put this into perspective. As one who partied as a teen back in the 70s, I can certainly relate to the 'random' tapping into energy sources!

My impression from reading about Carla's experience didn't seem to be in that category, though. She definitely seemed to take great care in "carefully and consciously opening this channel is to serve in a more dependable way" so I would speculate that any random holes would have been minimized. That's not to say that errors might not have occurred; we know from Ra that they did. So the contact isn't perfect. But, even with the errors, it remains the clearest and most profound channeled work that I've ever seen, in my experience.

---

Drugs have a way of temporarily lifting the veil, I know this from experience. It's just not something done lightly or without much care and guidance.

I agree! And from what I know of Carla, I feel certain that she would not have done it lightly.

I think of Carla sort of the same way I would think of a seasoned shaman. Surely a shaman utilizing peyote would not face the same risks as a teenager just partying.

[Monica]

This is a big shock to me. I've never seen it written that "This material was channeled by Carla Rueckert while she was tripping on acid."

Respectfully, I think having a bit of residue in her system from a previous acid trip, which may have caused a few errors, which Ra was aware of and tried to correct, is a far cry from channeling the whole series while tripping on acid.

None of the channeling sessions ever took place while on acid.

[Questioner]

Perigrine, here is one more person's perceptions, for what it's worth.

Ra indicates that for Carla, within the context of her work with Don and Jim, LSD did not cause a risk of inaccuracy, but it did cause a risk of fatigue for Carla as the drug wore off. This physical fatigue could lead to a degraded contact, just as physical fatigue from any cause.

Ra further indicates that "special attention" to the alignments is needed for this session, and in particular, that alignments be properly placed to prevent problems with a subsequent session. As has been discussed elsewhere, the LL Researchers realized that Ra's discussion of alignments indicated, symbolically, an unhelpful distortion in the questioning process used to communicate with Ra. The questions are in line with the typically constructive questions asked by the team, so what is different about this session is the drug residue. Ra concluded this session with a coded way of saying, "we can work with the post-trip Carla this time, but don't do that again, please," yet without interfering with free will.

The "random hole" that Ra said could be opened by LSD is more of a concern for those without a channeling process or working group like Carla had.

Carla has been outspoken and humble about her own mistakes in the process. I believe that the side-flipping hole in the audio is a genuine artifact of circumstance, not any attempt to cover anything up.

Remember that the L/L Research material spans decades, with consistent messages from multiple sources, through multiple channels including channeling circles, and there's no evidence of other LSD use. So it would make an exciting tabloid headline, but not be accurate to state the Law of One material is some kind of drug trip.

---

Could the "moon base"/"unbelievable" discussion get its own thread? It's popped up a couple of different places, not quite on topic.

[Monica]

Remember that the L/L Research material spans decades, with consistent messages from multiple sources, through multiple channels including channeling circles, and there's no evidence of other LSD use. So it would make an exciting tabloid headline, but not be accurate to state the Law of One material is some kind of drug trip.

Well said!

Could the "moon base"/"unbelievable" discussion get its own thread? It's popped up a couple of different places, not quite on topic.

I think there's already a thread devoted to it and other points considered by some to be 'implausible.' I'll see if I can find it and post the link.

[ayadew]

Ah! Thanks for the quote! (Maybe it's time for me to re-read the books again, eh.)

I'm actually doing that now, but I've only read them once before... humm, hardest book I've ever read.

Isn't there a Q'uo session on this subject?

[Sacred Fool]

...somewhere in the LOO materials it explains how a friend offered her LSD once during a recreational time during the years of the Ra contact ...

Thanks for that information, Kylissa.

Does anyone know where that quote is? I'd like to inspect it myself. If it were only one time, then this wouldn't be a big deal...to me at least.

Would you feel shocked if you learned that a channeler had been taking, say, anti-depressants or something like that?

It seems to me that any drug could affect the contact.

1. Anti-depressants might be a little less apt to cause metal distortion than would LSD.

2. Exactly! That accounts for the importance of the query--at least to the degree that sorting out distortion is of value.

Ra didn't seem too concerned about it, and seemed to indicate that efforts were made to correct any errors; Ra also seemed more concerned about her vital energy.

I'm still puzzled as to why so many people seem to be concerned about the moon bases.

Someone somewhere else in another post in another thread distortion vibration already pointed out that Ra was most impressive when discussing spiritual principles and the like. However , the distortion was most likely when they were dealing with down-to-earth human stuff such as perhaps drug experiences and moon bases. (The preceding is a statement of probability, not fact.)

I believe that the side-flipping hole in the audio is a genuine artifact of circumstance, not any attempt to cover anything up.

I hate to turn the tables, Questioner, and question you, but do you have a basis in fact for this or is it...something else. I'm just asking because the words immediately before and after are extant. Plus, it was only the third question in the session, so the tape should have been fresh. Come to that, I can't remember any case in the Ra sessions where tape flipping was an issue (the way it is in the Q'uo sessions), although I could easily be wrong about that. Audibility was a recurrent event, but not [tape blank]. This looks like different phenomenon all together, just to be clear. {I have a strong bias towards clarity. Did I mention that already?}


Anyhow, after all that fuss I caused, I'd be very happy to see for myself that this was a one time event (or a good tabloid headline--I'm open to, like, whatever). So, if someone could provide that reference, I'd be most grateful.

Thanks.
~P~

[βαθμιαίος]

Have you read Book V? If I remember correctly, Carla discusses the incident there. I believe she used LSD twice recreationally. The book is available for download from L/L's site.

My understanding is that Carla, Don, and Jim viewed the Ra contact as a sacred trust and that none of the three would have consciously done anything to damage or distort the contact. Carla, naively, thought that doing LSD with a friend on her own time would not affect the contact. I don't think she was high at the time of any session, nor do I think her having done LSD affected the quality of the information that came through. It did cause the sessions in Book II to be shorter than normal because of the need for Carla to regain strength, which is partly why that book is thinner than the rest.

Over time Carla, Don, and Jim learned that everything they did affected the contact, and once they attracted their fifth-density negative friend, everything was watched for opportunities for negative intervention.

I'm pretty sure the LSD use occurred after the moon base session (session 8), so I don't think it's relevant to the question of whether the moon base information is distorted or not.

There is a tape flipping issue in the Ra sessions, to a minor extent, at least as far as the re-listening project goes. The original sessions were recorded on three tapes each (I think) and the tapes were started at slightly different times so that the flip would occur at a different time on each and none of the sessions be lost. However, only one tape was kept from each session; the others were re-used after the transcription was done. So in the re-listening project there is a tape flipping issue. Later sessions at wiki.lawofone.info indicate where the tape flip occurred; this has not been done yet with the earlier sessions.

The blank tape in the LSD session is not because of a tape flip, however. On that tape the one word seems to have been intentionally erased.

BTW, peregrine, you say you're interested in clarity, but the way you titled this thread(!!!!!) suggests that a certain amount of emotion may be involved, too.

[Questioner]

Does anyone know where that quote is? I'd like to inspect it myself.

Do you want to inspect the quote or the chemical?

I believe that the side-flipping hole in the audio is a genuine artifact of circumstance, not any attempt to cover anything up.

I hate to turn the tables, Questioner, and question you, but do you have a basis in fact for this or is it...something else.

In a discussion forum, asking and answering questions is equally a part of everyone's role, isn't it?

My opinion is that the Ra material was no LSD trip or any kind of drug trip. I have both indirect and direct evidence.

Carla has revealed a lot of unflattering and "socially unacceptable" information. This includes discussion of what some people might consider unorthodox relationships and sexuality, issues with income, and other less-than-heroic experiences. None of these revelations would serve someone trying to set themselves up as a "hero of the faith." Compare them, for example, with the typical televangelist's self-aggrandizing claims.

Throughout the discussion of her experiences with channeling, Carla has acknowledged mistakes and imperfections. She has consistently presented herself as a sincere seeker, one who has foibles and struggles along with some successes. Nothing about that material sets herself up as a saint.

She consistently says that the wisdom she's channeled and learned has come because she was available to be of service to greater spiritual forces, not because she was already holy. And also, not because she was clever.

She's even outspoken about some of the Ra material being over her head, especially about science, with the need for herself to look to more scientifically developed people to explain to her what she channeled! This is not behavior consistent with taking drug trips and lying about them.

Being a dishonest deceiver about drug use, would be inconsistent with the forthrightness she's consistently demonstrated about other aspects of life. It would also be a major blow to her credibility and to the value of her work. Such a harsh claim should not be made lightly of someone who has decades of evidence against it.

Beyond these indirect hints, she addresses the topic head-on in her "Wanderer's Handbook," in chapter 10 available online free here at http://www.llresearch.org/library/a_wand...ook_10.pdf.

In this portion of the text, which is her own opinion not channeling, she writes, "I would be the last to condemn the more innocuous
substances out of hand, for I enjoy a little, in moderation. On the other hand, having had alcoholics in my birth family, I know exactly how much chaos and distress overuse of addictive substances causes in a family. .... The drug seeker is looking for ways to feel better. In this way, it can be clearly seen that drug usage is service-to-self in its polarity."

She goes on to contrast various reasons for taking drugs, such as experimentation, sociability, pain relief, and escape. She suggests careful consideration about the underlying intentions, and advises moderation.

And she then writes about the use of "consciousness-expanding" drugs, "My experience is limited to having taken LSD twice, in the early ’80s, and finding no trips in consciousness taking place .... However, the after-effects of this usage were so severe for me, physically, that I decided not to take LSD again, and I have not. .... Taking addictive drugs to achieve enlightenment is a cul de sac. It may bring moments of enhanced awareness, but the question remains: can we be responsible for the material we have learned?"

Peregrine, I'm familiar with much of the work of someone I respect greatly, who has demonstrated honesty and integrity in life, and who has explicitly said, for herself, statements that flat-out contradict your innuendo and suspicions.

Either Carla's a flat-out liar about drugs, in a way that would not gain her anything to have made the lie, or your suspicions are inappropriate.

I have a strong bias towards clarity.

I admire that.
I respectfully point out that it is not clarity to invent suspicious, cast aspersions, and make innuendos.
It is not clarity to suggest dishonesty on the part of someone else with a total absence of evidence.
It is not clarity to develop an imagined storyline about another person's life, without first trying to find out what the person said on her own behalf.
It is not clarity to imply that a lack of cleverness equals a lack of morality.
It is not clarity to introduce a tone of wariness and implications of some unspecified issue alleged to be present in another person's heart.
It is not clarity to leave blanks for other people to fill in about what might have been your own message.
Assuming that others have something they hide because it's a shameful character flaw, and that sufficient digging will expose it so they can be distrusted, is a common game among some intellectuals, including my family of origin and many people I've had as colleagues and friends. This means I can quickly and easily spot the pattern. But it has nothing to do with clarity, never did, and doesn't here.

I invite you to use this catalyst to consider which actions and words actually promote clarity, and which undermine the clarity they claim to serve. I believe the type of suspicions you've introduced in this thread present great risk of a service-to-self temptation of self-promotion through clever, indirect and unfounded undermining of the reputation and goodwill of others. This may be an inaccurate conclusion on my part, and if so, I apologize. But if there is some truth to it, then it is a form of intellectual practice that's not consistent with clarity of sincere seeking.

[ayadew]

Beware of the ego, it's self-manipulation is very subtle. Often the desire of the ego is not the total desire of the person. Forgive your own ego and other's.

As for the tape-conspiracies, it's malfunctioning in Ra occasionally also.
Example

Questioner: By freeing the planetary entities from darkness, precisely what do you mean?

Ra: I am Ra. (Most of the following answer was lost due to tape recorder malfunction. The core of the response was as follows.) We spoke of freeing people from darkness in a literal sense.

[Sacred Fool]

Have you read Book V? If I remember correctly, Carla discusses the incident there. I believe she used LSD twice recreationally. The book is available for download from L/L's site.

As I said at the outset, no, I've not read Book V. The personal stuff held no interest for me heretofore. It's now on my reading list.

My understanding is that Carla, Don, and Jim viewed the Ra contact as a sacred trust and that none of the three would have consciously done anything to damage or distort the contact. Carla, naively, thought that doing LSD with a friend on her own time would not affect the contact. I don't think she was high at the time of any session, nor do I think her having done LSD affected the quality of the information that came through.

Personally, I find this perfectly understandable. I'm sorry to have ruffled some folks' feathers about this, but I feel that potential distortion due to psychedelic drug use is a topic most worthy of explanation.

There is a tape flipping issue in the Ra sessions, to a minor extent, at least as far as the re-listening project goes. The original sessions were recorded on three tapes each (I think) and the tapes were started at slightly different times so that the flip would occur at a different time on each and none of the sessions be lost. However, only one tape was kept from each session; the others were re-used after the transcription was done. So in the re-listening project there is a tape flipping issue. Later sessions at wiki.lawofone.info indicate where the tape flip occurred; this has not been done yet with the earlier sessions.

The blank tape in the LSD session is not because of a tape flip, however. On that tape the one word seems to have been intentionally erased.

Thanks for clearing this up.

By the way, peregrine, you say you're interested in clarity, but the way you titled this thread(!!!!!) suggests that a certain amount of emotion may be involved, too.

Well, what can I say? Must clarity be divorced from emotion and devoid of humor? If so, I was out of the loop when that memo went around. (Such is the story of my life. I must have been wandering off somewhere at the time.)

I hate to turn the tables, Questioner, and question you, but do you have a basis in fact for this or is it...something else.

In a discussion forum, asking and answering questions is equally a part of everyone's role, isn't it?

Sorry, Q. I was amusing myself with the distortion of cleverness.

PS, I was speaking specifically about the tape erasure, not about anyone's character.

And she then writes about the use of "consciousness-expanding" drugs, "My experience is limited to having taken LSD twice, in the early ’80s, and finding no trips in consciousness taking place .... However, the after-effects of this usage were so severe for me, physically, that I decided not to take LSD again, and I have not. .... Taking addictive drugs to achieve enlightenment is a cul de sac. It may bring moments of enhanced awareness, but the question remains: can we be responsible for the material we have learned?"

Thank you very much, Q. This is just what I was looking for.

Either Carla's a flat-out liar about drugs, in a way that would not gain her anything to have made the lie, or your suspicions are inappropriate.

As it happens, I also have much admiration for Carla's character. I was in no position to question her veracity about the drug taking because I was not aware of what her statement was. All I did know was that I had very carefully and repeatedly gone through Books I-IV (some years prior to Books V's publication) and never seen any reference which might have suggested the contacts could have been tainted by psychedelic drug use. I'm sorry, other-self, but that really floored me when I came across it the other day.

I have a strong bias towards clarity.

I admire that.
I respectfully point out that it is not clarity to invent suspicious, cast aspersions, and make innuendos.
It is not clarity to suggest dishonesty on the part of someone else with a total absence of evidence.
It is not clarity to develop an imagined storyline about another person's life, without first trying to find out what the person said on her own behalf.
It is not clarity to imply that a lack of cleverness equals a lack of morality.
It is not clarity to introduce a tone of wariness and implications of some unspecified issue alleged to be present in another person's heart.
It is not clarity to leave blanks for other people to fill in about what might have been your own message.
Assuming that others have something they hide because it's a shameful character flaw, and that sufficient digging will expose it so they can be distrusted, is a common game among some intellectuals, including my family of origin and many people I've had as colleagues and friends. This means I can quickly and easily spot the pattern. But it has nothing to do with clarity, never did, and doesn't here.

I invite you to use this catalyst to consider which actions and words actually promote clarity, and which undermine the clarity they claim to serve. I believe the type of suspicions you've introduced in this thread present great risk of a service-to-self temptation of self-promotion through clever, indirect and unfounded undermining of the reputation and goodwill of others. This may be an inaccurate conclusion on my part, and if so, I apologize. But if there is some truth to it, then it is a form of intellectual practice that's not consistent with clarity of sincere seeking.

With all due respect, Questioner, I feel that's a bit much.

As to my introducing suspicions, my feeling is that, as this work becomes more popular, that's something the Keepers of the Faith will have to adjust to. The information on homosexuality, for instance, will probably not go unchallenged at some point.

Speaking of "Challenging"...Well, maybe discussion of how to salubriously respond to a *challenge* is a topic for another thread?

I'm just trying to say that you can't promote the material as genuine and not expect reasonable inquiries into it's credibility. Or am I wrong?

Thanks.
~P~

[βαθμιαίος]

Well, what can I say? Must clarity be divorced from emotion and devoid of humor? If so, I was out of the loop when that memo went around. (Such is the story of my life. I must have been wandering off somewhere at the time.)

I'm just observing that there seems to be a certain urgency to your desire for clarification.

[Sacred Fool]

Well, what can I say? Must clarity be divorced from emotion and devoid of humor? If so, I was out of the loop when that memo went around. (Such is the story of my life. I must have been wandering off somewhere at the time.)

I'm just observing that there seems to be a certain urgency to your desire for clarification.

You are not wrong, my friend. The ideological content of this material has been central to the construct of my sense of the world--and beyond--for many years. Had it all been received while tripping, well, I might'ave had feelings about that, shall we say.

Seriously, it just would not compute that so much care had gone in to making the contact and preserving it only to risk it by continued drug use.

I'm happy to now know that the extent of the LSD use was not significant (2 trips). Of course, I'll read Book V for myself...not that I'm some kind of skeptic or anything...

[Questioner]

I hate to turn the tables, Questioner, and question you, but do you have a basis in fact for this or is it...something else.

In a discussion forum, asking and answering questions is equally a part of everyone's role, isn't it?

Sorry, Q. I was amusing myself with the distortion of cleverness.

I took it as a clever comment worth a chuckle. I hoped to respond with a clever comment worth a chuckle. Your remark seemed to me to be as a funny little aside. For my come-back I hoped to reply in kind. Are we now on the same page about all that?

I was in no position to question her veracity about the drug taking because I was not aware of what her statement was.

And that's my concern. Could there have been a more gracious way to have asked what the story actually was?

Thank you very much, Q. This is just what I was looking for.

Glad I could help. Often, research is fun for me.

never seen any reference which might have suggested the contacts could have been tainted by psychedelic drug use. I'm sorry, other-self, but that really floored me when I came across it the other day.

"That really floored me." I wish you'd have started the discussion there, with how you felt and what was in your own mind. Maybe you did; maybe by "Whoa, Nelly!!!" you meant "I feel boggled!" not "I'm here to criticize wrongdoers!!!"

If that's the case, then I can see how the discussion got off track. Derailment came from misinterpreting what you were here to say. And maybe you meant nothing harsher than "I feel floored when I speculate about this!" Can you understand how others might have thought you meant to come on too strong? Even thought you had some kind of 60 Minutes style bad news expose against Carla?

(clarity issues) With all due respect, Questioner, I feel that's a bit much.

Then I apologize for whatever distortions I added in my attempts to understand your perspective.

I'm just trying to say that you can't promote the material as genuine and not expect reasonable inquiries into it's credibility. Or am I wrong?

Carla's a librarian, for God's sake - literally!

Of course I agree it makes sense to inquire about credibility.

I think the way you went about the credibility inquiry might have been too harshly worded. It really did seem to suggest bad faith, without evidence of bad faith.

I can see how my response might in turn have had more unfounded suggestion of bad faith, and for that I apologize.

Just as you didn't have a good reason to suspect Carla had something to hide, I didn't have a good reason to be suspicious that you were too suspicious. (This makes more sense if you talk like Maxwell Smart when reading it.)

Seriously, this whole issue of credibility is a very important, central theme in my life. I've had many experiences with people who demanded that they must be trusted uncritically, yet they must face no consequences for saying untrue things and for destructive behavior. After all, they felt emotionally intense at the time they were untrue and hurtful: as though ethics are always trumped by vivid feelings.

At the same time, these suppliers of super-intense catalyst used nothing but their worst feelings as some kind of proof: proof that I didn't have any caring or kindness, that I couldn't be telling the truth, even about my own experiences.

Just today, I had an in-person conversation with someone who said, "You have to realize, of course, that lots of people say all kinds of things they just don't mean at all." I know this is true, but it boggles me! How could people be so indifferent to whether or not they say the truth, with whether or not they help or hurt others with their communications!

The person I talked with in person also said, "I'm sorry I startled you with my outburst, and I don't actually mean anything bad about you." He then explained that he was upset when he read something that had nothing to do with me. So that ended well, although it started with a scare for me.

This is better than the way things used to go for me. The "excitement means you accept whatever I do or say, while I reject you" situations led to many painful circumstances in my life. Perhaps I projected some of my past issues onto what you said, from being oversensitive. If so, I ask for your forgiveness about any overreaching.

And perhaps, my heightened sensitivity does let me notice something at the edge of awareness that does deserve to be brought into focus. If so, perhaps we can together learn something that could help both of us.

In any event, I think it's safe to say the Ra material is not a drug trip.

[Sacred Fool]

[quote='peregrine' pid='6381' dateline='1256969612']
I hate to turn the tables, Questioner, and question you, but do you have a basis in fact for this or is it...something else.

In a discussion forum, asking and answering questions is equally a part of everyone's role, isn't it?

Sorry, Q. I was amusing myself with the distortion of cleverness.

I took it as a clever comment worth a chuckle. I hoped to respond with a clever comment worth a chuckle. Your remark seemed to me to be as a funny little aside. For my come-back I hoped to reply in kind. Are we now on the same page about all that?

Same page distortion, or close enough. No problem, other-self.


Looking back, I suppose it would be hard to argue that the title of this post is in conformity with common practices of this forum. Gosh, it appeals to *my* sense of humor?? Upon reflection, it exclaims, but does not articulate, my feelings at the time. To be sure, next time I get a shock like that I'll...well...who knows what I'll do?? Oh, my!!

I am honestly sorry if I aggravated anyone with my urgency. If it leads anyone to suspect that my polarization could be of a suspect nature, rest assured, it certainly has been...but not since I've been alive in this form...uh...at least not a lot more that anyone else I know.

How's that for clarity?

[Questioner]

Upon reflection, it exclaims, but does not articulate, my feelings at the time.

There you go. And I got an opportunity to reflect on some things too.

How's that for clarity?

Yup, we got that swamp all drained.


Just teasin' ya.

[Sacred Fool]

This only wholly off topic, but, if you want to check to see if your heart is still beating, get close to one of those suckers at night sometime. Talk about eliciting a reptilian response!

[Monica]

The ideological content of this material has been central to the construct of my sense of the world--and beyond--for many years. Had it all been received while tripping, well, I might'ave had feelings about that, shall we say.

That's a reasonable concern. Perhaps what is being suggested by some of us here is that maybe there has been a bit of 'jumping to conclusions' in assuming that an occasional acid trip meant that the entire series was channeled while under the influence.

As one who has tripped (5 times, 30 years ago), I can attest that it's pretty much impossible to talk while tripping, much less talk coherently for a solid hour! Much less to make any sense...

So, any concerns about the sessions taking place while tripping can be easily alleviated by just asking anyone who's ever tripped...Talking calmly and slowly and coherently for a solid hour? Nah...not possible, as far as I know!

Seriously, it just would not compute that so much care had gone in to making the contact and preserving it only to risk it by continued drug use.

Yeah, that would have been rather counterproductive.

I'm happy to now know that the extent of the LSD use was not significant (2 trips). Of course, I'll read Book V for myself...not that I'm some kind of skeptic or anything...

You will find references to Carla's 2 acid trips on pages 32-33, 38-40, 48-50 and 66.

---

I am honestly sorry if I aggravated anyone with my urgency. If it leads anyone to suspect that my polarization could be of a suspect nature, rest assured, it certainly has been...but not since I've been alive in this form...uh...at least not a lot more that anyone else I know.

Oh yes you are a suspect now!...anytime anyone freaks out around here, we know they're STS!

Just kidding!!!

Seriously, we're all just a bit protective about our dear, beloved Carla! We didn't want anyone erroneously thinking she was a hardcore druggie!

[Lavazza]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to express some gratitude to the participants of this thread as it has been very interesting to follow. I also wanted to leave my comment and support for Peregrine's viewpoint that we must not shy away from challenges (however they are worded, lol!) of the Ra material and those associated with it's transmission. As the "good word spreads" (heh!) of The Law of One to humanity, we should not just expect further challenges but embrace them, discuss them, and leave no topic to the taboo. Of course, having said that I understand many responded here due to what they perceived to be an attack on Carla.

As to LSD, quite frankly, there is a lot of weird stuff contained in the Ra material, surely we must all agree. Paradigm busting, convention upsetting, world view changing material. Finding that LSD was in any way associated with it surely does not comfort those who study it seriously. Just wishing to underscore and echo Peregrine's statement:

You are not wrong, my friend. The ideological content of this material has been central to the construct of my sense of the world--and beyond--for many years. Had it all been received while tripping, well, I might'ave had feelings about that, shall we say.

Having understood the issue to be cleared up in this thread of course.

[ayadew]

It's pleasant to see karmic bonds releasing

[Questioner]

quite frankly, there is a lot of weird stuff contained in the Ra material, surely we must all agree.

Sure, but I have to wonder if Ra's members say to each other, "quite frankly, there is a lot of weird stuff contained in those human minds!"

---

This only wholly off topic, but, if you want to check to see if your heart is still beating, get close to one of those suckers at night sometime. Talk about eliciting a reptilian response!

Never seen a gator in person as far as I know. I expect I'd be terrified, day or night!

[Lavazza]

Sure, but I have to wonder if Ra's members say to each other, "quite frankly, there is a lot of weird stuff contained in those human minds!"

Haha! Of that I have little doubt!

[Sacred Fool]

Uh Oh!! Something strange is coming over me and I'm having to squelch impulses to start more threads with tabloid headlines. I've got two so far:


TARAS BULBA Sighted at Louisville 711

Moische says Ra WAS WRONG: He really GAINED Polarization!



Could this be some subtle form of psychic greeting???

Should I be worried?

[ayadew]

You also forgot the thread "Ra incarnated as mummy for halloween! Wanderer's seen throwing candy-hearts at the abomination"

[Sacred Fool]

You also forgot the thread "Ra incarnated as mummy for halloween! Wanderer's seen throwing candy-hearts at the abomination"

This causes me to experience much of the distortion you call laughter.

[Sacred Fool]

WAIT...There's MORE!!!

...about LSD.


In hindsight I can see that I should have done a search on the topic before posting the first time. This stuff was not in the edition of the Ra Material I first read, so it's taking me a period of time to adjust to it.

Session 25 of The Law of One by Ra, An Humble Messenger
February 16, 1981

Ra: I am Ra. I greet you in the love and the light of the Infinite Creator. We communicate now.

Questioner: What cause or complex of causes has led to the instrument’s chest cold, as it is called?

Ra: I am Ra. This distortion towards illness was caused by the free will of the instrument in accepting a chemical substance which you call LSD. This was carefully planned by those entities which do not desire this instrument to remain viable. The substance has within it the facility of removing large stores of vital energy from the ingestor. The first hope of the Orion entity which arranged this opportunity was that this instrument would become less polarized towards what you call the positive. Due to conscious efforts upon the part of this instrument, using the substance as a programmer for service to others and for thankfulness, this instrument was spared this distortion and there was no result satisfactory to the Orion group.

The second hope lay in the possible misuse of the most powerful means of transmission of energy between your peoples in the area of body complex distortions. We have not previously spoken of the various types of energy blockages and transfers, positive and negative, that may take place due to participation in your sexual reproductive complex of actions. This entity, however, is a very strong entity with very little distortion from universal green-ray love energy. Thus this particular plan was not effected either, as the entity continued to give of itself in this context in an open or green-ray manner rather than attempting to receive or to manipulate other-self.

The only remaining distortion available, since this entity would not detune and would not cease sharing love universally under this chemical substance, was simply to drain this entity of as much energy as possible. This entity has a strong distortion towards busy-ness which it has been attempting to overcome for some time, realizing it not to be the appropriate attitude for this work. In this particular area the ingestion of this substance did indeed, shall we say, cause distortions away from viability due to the busy-ness and the lack of desire to rest; this instrument staying alert for much longer than appropriate. Thus much vital energy was lost, making this instrument unusually susceptible to infections such as it now experiences.

This information seems to back up my earlier feelings somewhat, although not for the same reasons. Ra's complacency earlier was purely short term, it seems.

Stay tuned for more...maybe.