Caring/Compassion/Sensitivity/Tact vs Lying/Faking

[yossarian]

Yes yossarian, recent discussions in this thread.

Although I have noticed significant energetic peaks both negative and positive relating to others (lately more negative). However, today I found some positive interactions but mostly related to yellow energy. I would say two particular people today felt like genuinely positive towards green, with compassionate traits.

Highly negative yellow can be seen almost in crescendo in newspapers headlines, etc. Particularly whats going on re: war games near Iran feels strange.

By negative yellow do you mean controlling? Like attempting to manipulate other selves?

I wish you'd name names so I could understand what you're saying. I'm all paranoid that I've been unintentionally insensitive or unfair or mean.

[3DMonkey]

I think you have been okay, yossarian.

[Ruth]

yossarian - I agree with 3DMonkey - you're just fine!

Love and light.

[apeiron]

By negative yellow do you mean controlling? Like attempting to manipulate other selves?

I wish you'd name names so I could understand what you're saying. I'm all paranoid that I've been unintentionally insensitive or unfair or mean.

There are always control issues in this density, it seems, but I am referring propensity towards conflict, not getting along with others, hostility. Things like that.

It was the overall energetic interaction from all of us. Probably also our confusion and lack of grasp of the moment. obviously, unity100 included.

No need to be paranoid. I was not thinking about you but our interactions with each other, the so called gestalt, if you wish. Difference this time, yellow negative took over us in my opinion.

[Tenet Nosce]

Frankly- I don't observe any such exacerbation of "negative yellow" in this thread. What I observe is a group of people who simply want to express themselves and speak their minds openly.

I observe that each, in their own way, has decided to somewhat dispense with the "niceties" and the "pleasantries" and get right down to the heart of the matter. Even those who would appear to be in favor of "niceties and pleasantries".

I don't observe this at all to be a "mistake" but exactly what is intended to occur. This is the time of the awakening. This is the time for all humanity to face the uncomfortable truth of what they have created, and that includes us.

The Plain Jane truth is that, for thousands of years, humanity has operated under some or another form of restrictive code of social conduct that requires all manner of wasted energy and absurdity in order to placate the ego.

It hasn't worked. Why is this so difficult to see?

The bottom line is that everybody in this forum should be given the benefit of the doubt that they ARE speaking from the heart. I am very sorry to be the bearer of "bad tidings" but those who believe that Spirit is always gentle are lying to themselves.

I would recommend (re)reading The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and review how C.S. Lewis depicts Aslan returning to Narnia.

Adonai. <--- This would appear to be more than sufficient of a nicety for the purposes of communication between different cultures within our local galaxy.

[3DMonkey]

At the same time, for thousands of years, those codes have coincided with philosophies designed to jump that hurdle. Same ol' same ol'

[Tenet Nosce]

At the same time, for thousands of years, those codes have coincided with philosophies designed to jump that hurdle. Same ol' same ol'

Then what would you suggest as the way forward?

Also... I would point out that even Q'uo had to come up with that ridiculous disclaimer to put at the beginning of every communication because so many thick-skulled humans couldn't seem to grasp that it should be taken for granted that Q'uo is just another cosmic "dude" out in the cosmic "peanut gallery".

[3DMonkey]

Me? Eat, drink and be merry. As long as I can.

But, I think humans should try the Vulcan route. The Tower of Babel route. It'd be ugly, but the race would achieve more.

[Monica]

I'm all paranoid that I've been unintentionally insensitive or unfair or mean.

Gosh, yossarian, not at all!

[Tenet Nosce]

Me? Eat, drink and be merry. As long as I can.

You know... there are those who find that attitude highly offensive!

(Once I told a girlfriend who was being very clingy to ponder the phrase Merry meet, and merry part, and merry meet again. She was neither amused, nor enlightened by it. She felt it wasn't my place to tell her what to ponder.)

But, I think humans should try the Vulcan route. The Tower of Babel route. It'd be ugly, but the race would achieve more.

Vulcans tend to make great ambassadors... unless of course you are a lunatic named Nero. (HINT: I wonder why Nero was so quick to take offense??)

[3DMonkey]

I should offer those persons a drink

[Tenet Nosce]

I should offer those persons a drink

What?! You drink alcohol?! And to think I thought of you as a "spiritual" person.

[AnthroHeart]

I can't really drink, I'm way too sensitive to it.

[Tenet Nosce]

Well I am pleased to say that after 15 years of not being on speaking terms, I just finally made up with Captain Morgan!

[Cassandra11]

At the same time, for thousands of years, those codes have coincided with philosophies designed to jump that hurdle. Same ol' same ol'

Then what would you suggest as the way forward?

Also... I would point out that even Q'uo had to come up with that ridiculous disclaimer to put at the beginning of every communication because so many thick-skulled humans couldn't seem to grasp that it should be taken for granted that Q'uo is just another cosmic "dude" out in the cosmic "peanut gallery".

Maybe it is just a form of showing Love. Human beings need language to communicate thoughts, feelings and intentions.

[Tenet Nosce]

Maybe it is just a form of showing Love. Human beings need language to communicate thoughts, feelings and intentions.

Or do we? :exclamation:

[AnthroHeart]

I'm not sure which subdensity I have experienced, but I had experience of going through the 7th sub-sub-density. Each sub-density I believe has a creator gateway within it as a sub-sub-density. This is my experience, so is pretty subjective.

My experiences of learning to be a conscious creator within the creator gateway:

1SSD7 - Experienced fiery emotions during my creation, and became at peace with my individuality. Gained intense passion for creation.

2SSD7 - Gave my creation over to Creator when I was "done", and demonstrated willingness to create another. This other I realized was actually a continuation of the original, making it more refined. Learned about not being too attached to the original creation.

3SSD7 - Experienced becoming an individual within my creation (in my mind). This one was very short, a few brief flashes.

4SSD7 - Experienced integrating the social memory complex of trillions within my creation to one being.

5SSD7 - Experienced the feeling of being the individualization of my creation. That one being that represents what it is.
Increased believability (optimal veils) of story and added ability for story to have history. Continually refined the story by "magic".

6SSD7 - Sharing ownership of creation with Ra after working with them to make creation more dense, vibrant and full of contrast. I gained experience of their stories that I helped balance with them as we approached the Creator gateway. Higher self was individualization of Ra memory complex. You can only approach Creator as one.

7SSD7 - Experience of higher self merging with Creator, as Creator creates a new One Original Thought from this "one". The higher self becomes a new Universe (one of 10^49 out there, 1 with 49 zeros).

In 7SSD7, the story/creation that Ra and I created has an archetypal mind, which was absorbing my own mind. I gave myself over completely to Creator, to be absorbed into this story I had created.

And it repeats as I continue to find myself. Now with newfound confidence, and purpose. Emotions aren't nearly so fiery now,
they're more refined. And I deeply love my creation, especially having gone through this process. This was 100's of hours for me of mental focusing.

[Tenet Nosce]

No, it doesn't make your path unusual. You may want to look at Spiral Dynamics. We move through the subdensities in a spiral, but in cross-section it's a linear manner - and this linear progression is not necessarily in the scope of an individual lifetime.

Well then so long as people are made aware that what appears to be "linear" is simply a cross-section of a spiral, then that would make sense to me.

I see too many systems that try to force everybody through the same linear path. Everything from the chakras opening (my chakras have clearly been opening in "reverse" order from what is commonly taught) to mathematics (why does one need to learn algebra before calculus?).

Bottom line is... pretty much anybody who authors a "system" of some sort almost immediately goes into the mode of defending said "system" from attackers, and digging their heels in deeper until it becomes dogma, and until their entire personage is defined by this "system" that they came up with.

Then of course, there is the inevitable person(s) who comes along and "creates" the anti-system. With all the attendant sophistry and attention-seeking behavior that goes along with "playing devil's advocate" and arguing for argumentation's sake and to be "clever" rather than for the sake of truth. Such individuals just can't seem to see the irony of forwarding their demi-urgic "creations" which are largely devoid of any true creativity. Such "anti-systems" are wholly based upon saying the opposite of something offered by a genuine author, and contain little to no original thought.

Personally, I have worked on creating many such "systems" in the past. Generally, I find that about two-thirds of the way through, a new and improved system comes into my mind that makes the one I was just working on obsolete. So in my view, creating a system is a great exercise, but hardly something that I would want to stand behind with the whole of my being and declare that this is "Who I Am" and "What Is So".

Hence you will find no books, book series, scientific papers, tapes and DVDs, feature length films, talk show appearances, syndicated content, T-shirts and buttons, retreat cruises, patents, copyrights, etc., under my authorship. I just don't have the time to get anything like that out as I am already on to the next thing. Ironically, the lack of said authorship appears to be a stumbling block in many people's minds as to the credibility of my words.

Again, stepping stones are fine so long as they are marked as stepping stones and not each as "The Destination".

Most people are 'passing through' green vmeme all of the time, as it has a basis in archetype - it's a 'vibration' which is identified by values.

I really struggle with accepting this. I honestly don't see this kind of attitude as normal or necessary. I see it as a carefully constructed manipulation tactic engineered to keep humans from truly connecting with one another.

At least the global elitist bankers are open and honest about their control tactics and desire to rule the world. Many "spiritual" people like to disguise their controlling behaviors as "love and light" and to use their "spirituality" as a defense mechanism against acknowledging the existence of negative things and people in the world.

In particular, the vGreen memers like to deny the existence of global elitist bankers that are plotting to rule the world. So that works out quite conveniently for the global elitist bankers.

hence the narcissism of the 'progressives'.

You mean the 'boomers'?

[zenmaster]

No, it doesn't make your path unusual. You may want to look at Spiral Dynamics. We move through the subdensities in a spiral, but in cross-section it's a linear manner - and this linear progression is not necessarily in the scope of an individual lifetime.

Well then so long as people are made aware that what appears to be "linear" is simply a cross-section of a spiral, then that would make sense to me.

You may want to read about it sometime.

I see too many systems that try to force everybody through the same linear path. Everything from the chakras opening (my chakras have clearly been opening in "reverse" order from what is commonly taught) to mathematics (why does one need to learn algebra before calculus?).

Prerequisites exist to provide free-will choices. Progression is part of the learning process. People are "at" different stages of development based on learning needs.

Bottom line is... pretty much anybody who authors a "system" of some sort almost immediately goes into the mode of defending said "system" from attackers, and digging their heels in deeper until it becomes dogma, and until their entire personage is defined by this "system" that they came up with.

In the SD system, dogma is learnt as part of 'blue' conformist ideologies - it usually has its support in religion with promise of transcendence and reward to the faithful.

Then of course, there is the inevitable person(s) who comes along and "creates" the anti-system. With all the attendant sophistry and attention-seeking behavior that goes along with "playing devil's advocate" and arguing for argumentation's sake and to be "clever" rather than for the sake of truth. Such individuals just can't seem to see the irony of forwarding their demi-urgic "creations" which are largely devoid of any true creativity. Such "anti-systems" are wholly based upon saying the opposite of something offered by a genuine author, and contain little to no original thought.

There either is no original thought, or all thought is original. Truly. There are naturally just as many approaches with products are 'pearls' as there are anti-system approaches with products of projection.

Personally, I have worked on creating many such "systems" in the past. Generally, I find that about two-thirds of the way through, a new and improved system comes into my mind that makes the one I was just working on obsolete. So in my view, creating a system is a great exercise, but hardly something that I would want to stand behind with the whole of my being and declare that this is "Who I Am" and "What Is So".

That's called 'identification' in the West and 'attachment' in the East, which is the basis for survival-oriented consciousness. It is important in its own scope, and, as you are learning, no so important in another scope.

Hence you will find no books, book series, scientific papers, tapes and DVDs, feature length films, talk show appearances, syndicated content, T-shirts and buttons, retreat cruises, patents, copyrights, etc., under my authorship. I just don't have the time to get anything like that out as I am already on to the next thing. Ironically, the lack of said authorship appears to be a stumbling block in many people's minds as to the credibility of my words.

Perhaps, perhaps not. On an individual basis, people can recognize credibility through commonality of experience. The more well-trodden paths can be a shared foundation for exploring something more novel.

Again, stepping stones are fine so long as they are marked as stepping stones and not each as "The Destination".

The marking of the stones is something an individual learns for themself. It's obviously counter productive to annotate relatives vs absolutes with regard to declarations, and the more discerning reader can always do this for themself - which is infinitely more desirable.

Most people are 'passing through' green vmeme all of the time, as it has a basis in archetype - it's a 'vibration' which is identified by values.

I really struggle with accepting this. I honestly don't see this kind of attitude as normal or necessary. I see it as a carefully constructed manipulation tactic engineered to keep humans from truly connecting with one another.

It is a person's perrogative to engineer their own wedges from 'truly' connecting with one another. The SD system is obviously not such a wedge - it was designed to recognize the value of needs and connect. http://www.soulscode.com/spiral-dynamics...explained/

At least the global elitist bankers are open and honest about their control tactics and desire to rule the world. Many "spiritual" people like to disguise their controlling behaviors as "love and light" and to use their "spirituality" as a defense mechanism against acknowledging the existence of negative things and people in the world.

If it's true disguise, that's what Ra referred to as a negative polarizing attitude. Because in order to disguise, there has to be acknowledgement. In order to not apply honesty to that acknowledgement, there has to be repression. There is great potential being done through such clever working.

In particular, the vGreen memers like to deny the existence of global elitist bankers that are plotting to rule the world. So that works out quite conveniently for the global elitist bankers.

Actually the green vmemers are the very ones pointing it out with such fervor. They see healthy vs pathological behavior with respect to green (where they are still learning the scope and propriety of egalitarianism). Unfortunately their ideology is strongly colored with a rather 'absolute', universal, idea of valueless relativism/pluralism, so this is what they unconsciously reference with no solutions (which would require valuing).

hence the narcissism of the 'progressives'.

You mean the 'boomers'?

Not just boomers, any 'post-modern' ethical platform which is blind to people's valuing needs.

[Tenet Nosce]

You may want to read about it sometime.

Quite "coincidentally" my partner just decided that she wanted me to watch this:

So, this is all laid out very nicely and is in many ways self-evident. But it is still presented as a step-by-step process of unfolding or stages that one "must pass through". Don't get me wrong, this looks like a brilliant model.

Let me see if I can explain this from a different angle.

I appear to have been born aware of the Turquiose Holistic Meme.

As a child, when I was first learning science in primary school, I had wrongly assumed that it was being taught in the context of this Turquoise Holistic Meme, when in fact it was being taught in the context of the Blue Purposeful/Authoritarian Meme. This was very confusing to me as a child, and my Turquoise Holistic Memes were taken by others to be "cute" or at most "fanciful" ideas.

When I got to secondary school and I was able to take "advanced" science classes, I was thinking to myself, surely they are going to get to this Turquoise Holistic Meme stuff. Again I was wrong. It was actually coming from the standpoint of the Orange Achievist/Strategic Meme. Here the Turquoise Holistic Memes were taken by others as "impractical" and "naive".

When I got to the University I thought to myself, now surely HERE of all places we are going to get to the Turquoise Holistic Meme stuff. Again I was quite incorrect. This time science was presented to me from the standpoint of the Green Communitarian/Egalitarian Meme. Here my Turquoise Holistic Memes appeared to others to be "disrespectful" to the establishment and "elitist".

Well, could you imagine how elated I was to find a naturopathic graduate medical program where I thought now absolutely HERE in this place, we will FINALLY get to this Turquoise Holistic Meme stuff! Mmm. Nope mostly Yellow Integrative Meme viewpoints and my Turquoise Holistic Memes appeared to be "narrow" and "inexperienced".

Drats, foiled again.

[3DMonkey]

I might find some correlations of these "stages" in my process of a single catalyst, but I do not appreciate associating timelines with them. Even in the video, he says we get our beliefs here and then it was here and now here. It's one step forward and two steps back. Every one of these dynamics have been in play since humans existed.

[zenmaster]

Even in the video, ..

I'd suggest taking a look at the actual research, not the dumbed-down Oprah crap.

[Oceania]

Oprah panders to the people.

[Tenet Nosce]

Prerequisites exist to provide free-will choices. Progression is part of the learning process.

And yet, one need not know algebra to perform calculus. The idea of a linear progression through school appears to be attached to the Blue Meme.

People are "at" different stages of development based on learning needs.

And the primary role of an educator should be to identify the appropriate stage of development in the student, and teach from there, rather than to attempt to cram the whole class into their limited view (or worse teaching to some state-mandated "standard") or to squash creative thinking because it is nonconformist and/or makes the other students uncomfortable.

Individuals who are themselves stuck at the blue/orange level should not be educators. Certainly not to anybody who is working with higher memes.

In the SD system, dogma is learnt as part of 'blue' conformist ideologies - it usually has its support in religion with promise of transcendence and reward to the faithful.

Does the SD system allow for the presence of souls who have never passed through the subsistence value memes? Does it allow for a child's awareness to be at the Turquoise level, or does it insist that is not possible for a child?

There either is no original thought, or all thought is original. Truly. There are naturally just as many approaches with products are 'pearls' as there are anti-system approaches with products of projection.

Ehhh. I do see what you are saying, to a point. What I mean here by "original thought" is original for earth humans. A unique perspective. I am attempting to draw a distinction between true and false creativity, and somewhat griping about all the "systems" out there being pushed that in some way represent a return to the past, or doing what was done before (and failed).

Example: A presidential candidate whose basic "plan" is to "do what Reagan did". Um.. that is not a "plan" that is mimicry.

That's called 'identification' in the West and 'attachment' in the East, which is the basis for survival-oriented consciousness. It is important in its own scope, and, as you are learning, no so important in another scope.

Yes. The scope in which it is not so important is in the realm of spirituality and personal development. 15 years ago, there was an explosion of writers in these fields. Instead of comparing notes and finding out what was in common, each chose to go the "copyright" path, do the "lecture tours" and "workshops" and so on. Branding. So it is more than a little ironic to me that all these so-called gurus and experts can't see past their own attachments to the systems that they "created".

Perhaps, perhaps not. On an individual basis, people can recognize credibility through commonality of experience. The more well-trodden paths can be a shared foundation for exploring something more novel.

And what happens when one has no direct experience (from within this lifetime) to draw from? They have no credibility. Especially a child couldn't possibly have credibility because they "haven't lived long enough to know anything". And so on. The problem in this case seems to be the notion of "Tabula Rasa" that is one of those theories that is presented as a fact.

The marking of the stones is something an individual learns for themself. It's obviously counter productive to annotate relatives vs absolutes with regard to declarations, and the more discerning reader can always do this for themself - which is infinitely more desirable.

What would be infinitely more desirable is for authors to provide a Quo-like disclaimer on their works, and to include at least one chapter at the end outlining the shortcomings of their system and suggesting ways that it can be improved. THEN, if and when somebody else comes along and improves the system, this would actually be welcomed and accepted, and no copyright infringement battles would ensue.

By the way, a fully functional approach to this issue is represented among the open-source and hacker community, whereupon information is freely shared with the specific intent that others add to, and improve upon, the existing knowledge base.

It is a person's perrogative to engineer their own wedges from 'truly' connecting with one another. The SD system is obviously not such a wedge - it was designed to recognize the value of needs and connect. http://www.soulscode.com/spiral-dynamics...explained/

I see.

If it's true disguise, that's what Ra referred to as a negative polarizing attitude. Because in order to disguise, there has to be acknowledgement. In order to not apply honesty to that acknowledgement, there has to be repression. There is great potential being done through such clever working.

Perhaps disguise wasn't the ideal word choice. The point is that all spiritual seekers, including myself, should be reaching for what is next. Not pulling people back into the past.

I will say it again differently. For a person who goes through life getting offended at the drop of a hat, flipping out because somebody said retard instead of mentally challenged, and/or losing their cool because somebody told them they are "wrong", it should be obvious that THEY are the ones who need to grow into a new understanding.

Actually the green vmemers are the very ones pointing it out with such fervor. They see healthy vs pathological behavior with respect to green (where they are still learning the scope and propriety of egalitarianism). Unfortunately their ideology is strongly colored with a rather 'absolute', universal, idea of valueless relativism/pluralism, so this is what they unconsciously reference with no solutions (which would require valuing).

I see. Then who are the ones that flatly deny that such people exist? Who believe that "everybody is just doing their best" and "nobody would ever commit such heinous acts against humanity"? These would be the same ones who dismiss any non-mainstream view as "rubbish" or a "conspiracy theory". Or who seem to feel that conspiracies happen in other places, or in other times, but NEVER here/now in the USA. (No American would EVER sell out his countrymen to make a fast buck!)

---

Oprah panders to the people.

My favorite is when people come up to me and say something to the effect of "OMG! You sound like Dr. Oz!" Really? Cause I think Dr. Oz sounds like me. But since he is on teevee, we will just give him all the credit.

Natural medicine was all "quackery" before Dr. Oz. Television is what makes things "real" to people.

[Tenet Nosce]

I might find some correlations of these "stages" in my process of a single catalyst, but I do not appreciate associating timelines with them. Even in the video, he says we get our beliefs here and then it was here and now here. It's one step forward and two steps back. Every one of these dynamics have been in play since humans existed.

I agree. In particular, the timeline associated with this system does not account for past cultures that were "beyond" our own. It is still framed as "gaining something new" rather than "regaining what was lost".

[3DMonkey]

Oprah panders to the people.

My favorite is when people come up to me and say something to the effect of "OMG! You sound like Dr. Oz!" Really? Cause I think Dr. Oz sounds like me. But since he is on teevee, we will just give him all the credit.

Natural medicine was all "quackery" before Dr. Oz. Television is what makes things "real" to people.

I feel so backwards than the world sometimes. You see, I think Dr. Oz makes natural medicine all "faddish", which disgusts me.

He bugs me soooo much. "strawberries have xyz that fights cancer, so eat more strawberries. I'm speaking so fast and excitedly". (fine print: you must eat three pounds of strawberries a day for two years to recognize any actual changes in your cancer)

I'm totally exaggerating, but that is how I see the dude.

[Tenet Nosce]

I feel so backwards than the world sometimes. You see, I think Dr. Oz makes natural medicine all "faddish", which disgusts me.

Yup. Again presented as something "new" rather than a presentation of lost knowledge. What? You mean food impacts health?! Revolutionary!

He bugs me soooo much. "strawberries have xyz that fights cancer, so eat more strawberries. I'm speaking so fast and excitedly". (fine print: you must eat three pounds of strawberries a day for two years to recognize any actual changes in your cancer)

Right... NOT! Actually, the most truthful statement would not be that strawberries fight cancer, or that lycopene fights cancer, but that the immune system fights cancer.

And what does the immune system need to fight cancer? Well no less than 22 (<-- there's that number again!) essential vitamins and minerals.

Oh it will be a grand day when the gurus of medicine stop presenting cancer as if there is a "cancer fairy" flying around striking down people at random...

Eating buckets of estrogen-laden chicken raised on GMO soy and deep fried in trans fat, of course, helps to fight cancer too!

[Oceania]

i'm glad it's not dr phil. dr oz is at least good looking,

hey the office is on! yay

[Tenet Nosce]

i'm glad it's not dr phil. dr oz is at least good looking

Never trust a man in makeup.

[3DMonkey]

I thought it was the mustache not to trust.