In regards to eating meat

[BrownEye]

During my animal rehab days there was a full separation between what I ate, and what I was currently involved in. Food was food, and I could not connect it to the animals in my care. So while I had a form of love for those in my care, it did not translate into full compassion for the animal kingdom itself.

This never came about until the cleaning up of my body. I fully think that having the animal parts in your body will block off certain connections. Whether we want to call it awareness, consciousness, evolving, whatever, I found a definite connection between animal matter in my body, and the nonexistent compassion.

This may be what is described in gospel of peace, "eat of death, death will become you", not so much as death in the sense of dying, but dead to certain aspects/portions of awareness.

[βαθμιαίος]

Q'uo?

Could be -- don't know.

[Monica]

I don't think the idea that whales and dolphins are third-density entities is from Ra.

If not Ra, then Q'uo.

---

To say someone is in denial is to say that if they were honest they wouldnt eat meat, and to say that is to say that they are wrong.
To agree exclamation point with someone who just said they aren't evolving is to say the same thing
To tell me "fine just eat fruits and nuts" is to tell me my logic is wrong

Respectfully, Monkey, I get the impression you are more interested in analyzing every word the vegetarians say, than in discussing the topic of this thread.

[3DMonkey]

During my animal rehab days there was a full separation between what I ate, and what I was currently involved in. Food was food, and I could not connect it to the animals in my care. So while I had a form of love for those in my care, it did not translate into full compassion for the animal kingdom itself.

This never came about until the cleaning up of my body. I fully think that having the animal parts in your body will block off certain connections. Whether we want to call it awareness, consciousness, evolving, whatever, I found a definite connection between animal matter in my body, and the nonexistent compassion.

This may be what is described in gospel of peace, "eat of death, death will become you", not so much as death in the sense of dying, but dead to certain aspects/portions of awareness.

I think there is truth in that. In a physical sense and a metaphysical sense. I think I've said this before in this thread- that I am coming at this discussion from a completely metaphysical point of view. And I think the original post was started to discuss it metaphysically.

As for the physical stuff you're speaking about, Pickle, I agree. But the way I see it, I live on earth, and my body itself is pretty gross if I think about it too long . In other words, I'm not putting heroine in my body, but meat... I don't care about that.

Metaphysically, I would rather not digest guilt. Then what would I become?

[AnthroHeart]

Aren't there farms that are humane with their meat? I believe so, but even with that, it's probably not the same on a spiritual level as eating plants. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

[3DMonkey]

I don't think the idea that whales and dolphins are third-density entities is from Ra.

If not Ra, then Q'uo.

---

To say someone is in denial is to say that if they were honest they wouldnt eat meat, and to say that is to say that they are wrong.
To agree exclamation point with someone who just said they aren't evolving is to say the same thing
To tell me "fine just eat fruits and nuts" is to tell me my logic is wrong

Respectfully, Monkey, I get the impression you are more interested in analyzing every word the vegetarians say, than in discussing the topic of this thread.

Not at all. You could have taken "calling people wrong" in a [edit] hypothetical sense. It is what I meant.

You decided to make a claim. I pointed out some things that I think make that claim false.

But why reduce me down to a knit picker? I am fully engaged in this topic for the sake of the topic and nothing else.

[Diana]

It isn't compassionate toward 3D to say they are wrong.

---

To say they aren't evolving

I don't recall anyone on this thread ever saying anyone was 'wrong' or not evolving. (Well maybe one person did, but it wasn't me.)

I hope you are not referring to me . I am here discussing because I think this group IS interested in evolving. I am just debating the subject of eating meat.

If I gave that impression, please forgive my poor choice of words.

[3DMonkey]

It isn't compassionate toward 3D to say they are wrong.

---

To say they aren't evolving

I don't recall anyone on this thread ever saying anyone was 'wrong' or not evolving. (Well maybe one person did, but it wasn't me.)

I hope you are not referring to me . I am here discussing because I think this group IS interested in evolving. I am just debating the subject of eating meat.

If I gave that impression, please forgive my poor choice of words.

Well, I would not try to say the person Diana is not a compassionate person.

The ideas of viewing others as not wanting to evolve or that eating meat means that they are not evolving are not compassionate ideas, IMO.

[Diana]

Monica, thank you for the 2D-3D explanation. It was very clear. This helps me .

[Bring4th_Austin]

To say someone is in denial is to say that if they were honest they wouldnt eat meat, and to say that is to say that they are wrong.

---

To agree exclamation point with someone who just said they aren't evolving is to say the same thing

---

To tell me "fine just eat fruits and nuts" is to tell me my logic is wrong

It is possible to love somebody but not love their ways.

Q'uo?

Could be -- don't know.

The idea that dolphins and whales are 3D vehicles for Atlanteans who wished to depart from the society created from bipedal evolution is from Q'uo. It is also a consistent theme across many channeled sources. However, as far as I'm aware, dolphins and whales are the only "animals" that are 3D.

[Diana]

It isn't compassionate toward 3D to say they are wrong.

---

To say they aren't evolving

I don't recall anyone on this thread ever saying anyone was 'wrong' or not evolving. (Well maybe one person did, but it wasn't me.)

I hope you are not referring to me . I am here discussing because I think this group IS interested in evolving. I am just debating the subject of eating meat.

If I gave that impression, please forgive my poor choice of words.

Well, I would not try to say the person Diana is not a compassionate person.

The ideas of viewing others as not wanting to evolve or that eating meat means that they are not evolving are not compassionate ideas, IMO.

But, the idea of including meat in our diets is one fraction of our total beingness. So, if my opinion of meat-eating is that it would serve a person's evolution to move away from it, that is not to say the person isn't evolving .

[3DMonkey]

If one might say "eating animals is bad for society". I would say "thinking of your fellow humans as making the world a bad place is harmful to your balance"

[Monica]

Metaphysically, I would rather not digest guilt. Then what would I become?

Monkey, do you see any difference between 'healthy remorse' which leads to positive changes, and 'unhealthy guilt' which just causes loathing?

[Oceania]

i'm with Pickle.

[3DMonkey]

Healthy remorse originates in an individual. From individual circumstances.

---

Thinking that someone should feel remorse. That's a whole other topic.

---

"I can't believe you don't care. You must be blind". That's not good.

[Diana]

During my animal rehab days there was a full separation between what I ate, and what I was currently involved in. Food was food, and I could not connect it to the animals in my care. So while I had a form of love for those in my care, it did not translate into full compassion for the animal kingdom itself.

This never came about until the cleaning up of my body. I fully think that having the animal parts in your body will block off certain connections. Whether we want to call it awareness, consciousness, evolving, whatever, I found a definite connection between animal matter in my body, and the nonexistent compassion.

This may be what is described in gospel of peace, "eat of death, death will become you", not so much as death in the sense of dying, but dead to certain aspects/portions of awareness.

I will concur with this experience. I always did have some compassion for animals--and all life--but cleaning up the body makes a huge difference in clarity and understanding. So much fear dissipates as well.

For example:
I used to be afraid of bees stinging me (I'm not allergic) and now, I love hanging around them at the bird bath where they drink. They crawl on me and their energy is so gentle and compelling. I had an experience where a swarm, that had been living in my backyard, left my property, and I was working in my studio when they left. I heard a huge sound outside my window. I went outside and the swarm was right there over my head hovering (maybe 8 feet up). They hovered for maybe 3 minutes and I could "feel" them saying good-bye to me. I will add that I am not prone to fanciful imaginings .

[Monica]

I hope you are not referring to me .

Oh gosh no!!! I probably shouldn't even have said that. This thread has been going on for a very long time. Someone might have said something like that months ago, before you were even here.

If I gave that impression, please forgive my poor choice of words.

Not at all! Nothing to forgive. I am very appreciative of your contributions!

---

It is possible to love somebody but not love their ways.

Thank you, Austin! Exactly.

That's the point Monkey and I have disagreed on before. My understanding from Monkey is that he feels we must 'approve' of everything a person does, in order to love and accept them. (Monkey please correct me if I have misunderstood you. That's what I got from that last conversation.)

[BrownEye]

The ideas of viewing others as not wanting to evolve or that eating meat means that they are not evolving are not compassionate ideas, IMO.

I think evolving is a side effect.

I am kind of seeing it as a bubble, a sphere, an expanding field of awareness of "other". Expanding this field of perception, is like growing, but not the same as evolving. I really think evolving is a side effect of no longer "needing" what I would call "weight". Whether that be the weight of matter we ingest, or the weight of materialistic goods that we collect, it all seems to be weight that we slough off like an insect sheds its skin, possibly even changing its form.

I would say that I existed in the stage you are at, and would have continued if not for the health effects that appeared around age 38-39. So there may come a point where you are cornered by catalyst as I was, and be forced to make a choice. That would most likely cause a change, then after the change comes a shift in perception, which when permanent might be called "evolving".

So some of us on this thread may have intuitively made the change, I was backed in to a corner. Although, depending on your development as a soul portion, it may not even be on your "to do" list. However, I will assume it is since you are on this thread LMAO!

[Monica]

If one might say "eating animals is bad for society". I would say "thinking of your fellow humans as making the world a bad place is harmful to your balance"

Monkey, how do we ever change anything, if we don't first recognize that something needs changing?

I think war is bad. I don't think it's harming my balance to say that. Quite the opposite; I'd be concerned about balance if I couldn't recognize that war is...bad.

---

Healthy remorse originates in an individual. From individual circumstances.
Thinking that someone should feel remorse. That's a whole other topic.
"I can't believe you don't care. You must be blind". That's not good.

No one lives in isolation. We all mirror to one another. I'm very glad someone cared enough about me to bring certain things to my attention.

[βαθμιαίος]

I hope you are not referring to me .

Oh gosh no!!! I probably shouldn't even have said that. This thread has been going on for a very long time. Someone might have said something like that months ago, before you were even here.

Isn't this the kind of thing unity100 was objecting to? Not only did she say it, you agreed with it:

I find this amazing: that, in a forum of people who are supposedly here because they have an interest in evolving, there is so much clinging to eating meat with any justification that can be thought of. Is it really possible that you don't understand this? That eating meat, and in particular, the cruel way we have developed to bring the meat to you, isn't an evolved way to live? I addressed the argument of eating plants earlier.

I feel that with this group, and after 47 pages of this, it's time to stop trying to gently shift your thinking as if you are members of the anesthetized sleeping masses. I understand Monica's frustration. My guess is that everyone who is aware of the cruelty and negative health issues associated with eating animals is in denial. I mean no offense, but if this group can't even evolve past such barbaric behavior, where does that leave the human race, and for that matter, the planet?

Well said, Diana! I agree completely. It's major denial. There's no other explanation.

Eating meat = cruelty
Cruelty not compatible with STO

It's so...basic.

[Diana]

I hope you are not referring to me .

Oh gosh no!!! I probably shouldn't even have said that. This thread has been going on for a very long time. Someone might have said something like that months ago, before you were even here.

Isn't this the kind of thing unity100 was objecting to? Not only did she say it, you agreed with it:

I find this amazing: that, in a forum of people who are supposedly here because they have an interest in evolving, there is so much clinging to eating meat with any justification that can be thought of. Is it really possible that you don't understand this? That eating meat, and in particular, the cruel way we have developed to bring the meat to you, isn't an evolved way to live? I addressed the argument of eating plants earlier.

I feel that with this group, and after 47 pages of this, it's time to stop trying to gently shift your thinking as if you are members of the anesthetized sleeping masses. I understand Monica's frustration. My guess is that everyone who is aware of the cruelty and negative health issues associated with eating animals is in denial. I mean no offense, but if this group can't even evolve past such barbaric behavior, where does that leave the human race, and for that matter, the planet?

Well said, Diana! I agree completely. It's major denial. There's no other explanation.

Eating meat = cruelty
Cruelty not compatible with STO

It's so...basic.

Let me apologize for my poor choice of words again. To say "shift your thinking" was very unevolved of me. I really do not want to change anybody but me, and yet, ironically, I see the suffering in the world and I become impatient to let it be. There is a blurry line here, between "being" and "connectedness" that I find difficult to fathom at times.

[βαθμιαίος]

Let me apologize for my poor choice of words again. To say "shift your thinking" was very unevolved of me. I really do not want to change anybody but me, and yet, ironically, I see the suffering in the world and I become impatient to let it be. There is a blurry line here, between "being" and "connectedness" that I find difficult to fathom at times.

For my part, your apology is certainly accepted and I really didn't mean to make an example of you but to respond to Monica's breezy assurance that "someone might have said something like that months ago, before you were even here," which I thought smacked a lot of the kind of faked political correctness that unity100 was recently complaining about.

[3DMonkey]

It is possible to love somebody but not love their ways.

I disagree. People are their ways. Either I accept what they do or I don't.

"I love him, but I hate what he does". No, you don't love him. You are being dishonest with yourself.

That is my opinion.

[Monica]

Isn't this the kind of thing unity100 was objecting to?

He was objecting to what he perceived as 'fakery.'

When I said "I probably shouldn't have said that" I was referring to when I mentioned that someone somewhere sometime did say "you are wrong" because that led Diana to mistakenly think I was referring to her.

Not only did she say it, you agreed with it:

I find this amazing: that, in a forum of people who are supposedly here because they have an interest in evolving, there is so much clinging to eating meat with any justification that can be thought of. Is it really possible that you don't understand this? That eating meat, and in particular, the cruel way we have developed to bring the meat to you, isn't an evolved way to live? I addressed the argument of eating plants earlier.

I feel that with this group, and after 47 pages of this, it's time to stop trying to gently shift your thinking as if you are members of the anesthetized sleeping masses. I understand Monica's frustration. My guess is that everyone who is aware of the cruelty and negative health issues associated with eating animals is in denial. I mean no offense, but if this group can't even evolve past such barbaric behavior, where does that leave the human race, and for that matter, the planet?

Well said, Diana! I agree completely. It's major denial. There's no other explanation.

Eating meat = cruelty
Cruelty not compatible with STO

It's so...basic.

Not sure what your point here is...?

[Bring4th_Austin]

It is possible to love somebody but not love their ways.

I disagree. People are their ways. Either I accept what they do or I don't.

"I love him, but I hate what he does". No, you don't love him. You are being dishonest with yourself.

That is my opinion.

Then how do you decide how to act yourself?

And no one ever said hate. You can disagree with an action and not hate it.

I disagree with torture. I disagree that torture should be allowed. I do not hate the people that torture others. I love them but feel their actions should not be allowed because of its effects on society and others.

I think, perhaps, it is something you just simply do not understand. I am not being dishonest with myself when I say that I love the one who tortures. I see myself in them, them in myself, but I do not agree that those actions which we are both capable of should be carried out. There is no dishonesty.

[3DMonkey]

It isn't compassionate toward 3D to say they are wrong.

---

To say they aren't evolving

I don't recall anyone on this thread ever saying anyone was 'wrong' or not evolving. (Well maybe one person did, but it wasn't me.)

I hope you are not referring to me . I am here discussing because I think this group IS interested in evolving. I am just debating the subject of eating meat.

If I gave that impression, please forgive my poor choice of words.

Well, I would not try to say the person Diana is not a compassionate person.

The ideas of viewing others as not wanting to evolve or that eating meat means that they are not evolving are not compassionate ideas, IMO.

But, the idea of including meat in our diets is one fraction of our total beingness. So, if my opinion of meat-eating is that it would serve a person's evolution to move away from it, that is not to say the person isn't evolving .

It may serve A! Person. It obviously serves Pickle well.

It is a fraction. A fraction I don't think makes a bit of difference when it comes to assessing harvest ability during the indigo ray assessment after death.

[βαθμιαίος]

Not sure what your point here is...?

See this post: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...6#pid61406

[Diana]

It may serve A! Person. It obviously serves Pickle well.

It is a fraction. A fraction I don't think makes a bit of difference when it comes to assessing harvest ability during the indigo ray assessment after death.

Once again--I chose words poorly. When I said "a person" what I really was referring to was the entity of human race, which if I remember correctly (I read a lot in this genre and sometimes get the references mixed), must move as a group to 4th density. If I am wrong about this, please let me know.

[3DMonkey]

I hope you are not referring to me .

Oh gosh no!!! I probably shouldn't even have said that. This thread has been going on for a very long time. Someone might have said something like that months ago, before you were even here.

Isn't this the kind of thing unity100 was objecting to?

Is that what he was talking about? Oh!!! Hahahaha. Sorry unity100, I didn't understand.

[Monica]

to respond to Monica's breezy assurance that "someone might have said something like that months ago, before you were even here," which I thought smacked a lot of the kind of faked political correctness that unity100 was recently complaining about.

Oooooohhh is thaaaaaat what you mean. If I am being accused of political correctness, then OK. Guilty as charged.

Edit: Just noticed the word faked. I don't admit to that at all. I'm actually a little offended that you think I'm faking it when I try to avoid hurting or judging someone.