Caring/Compassion/Sensitivity/Tact vs Lying/Faking

[3DMonkey]

Thank you, yossarian. Personally, those colors have baffled me. It is the one thing I've never understood about the LOO.

[zenmaster]

The intuitive and intellectual faculties are separate from the chakras.

Absolutely true. The mystic and the intellectual however are different psychological orientations for working with experience which may have provided polarization (and therefore chakra activation, and balance). "Blue" is honesty, ego-identity-transcended honesty, which can facilitate intersubjective communication or form of "shared mind."

[Monica]

i'm sorry Monica. that's horrible. parents and people kids respect have a lot of influence on them, like Ra has on those who believe in them, and thus this influence is actually something that if used unwisely leads to damage. a pure soul's enthusiasm untainted by the views of others is i think the best place to be in, wellbeingly and creatively. your passion for singing was a butterfly and your mother's hands crushed it. even if unintentionally, her hand was too heavy for such a precious fairy that was your feelings toward your singing, because you were new and unguarded. it makes me so sad that happened. i've had similar experiences regarding people whose opinions have more weight than others and who use them carelessly. not everyone cares for anothers' "honesty or truth". sometimes people just need to be left alone in their own untainted unswayed beliefs. you can't put a butterfly back together and that is the biggest tragedy in that.

Thanks, Oceania! What was even more tragic was that it was one of the few memories I have of the normal sort of joy children are supposed to have. That made her action even more damaging.

I no longer feel hurt by it, and have forgiven both my parents long ago. But my family history has lots of poignant examples so that's why I mentioned it. I know firsthand.

By the way i always felt that way about Picasso too. but if others or me in the future appreciate him, then it doesn't mean he's crap.

Agreed. Art and music are subject to taste.

[Namaste]

yes. the main difference in our perspectives is that, despite you are saying that you are operating from 4th ray, and describing me as operating from 5th ray, you are criticizing me for not mixing 5th ray with 4th ray as it should be in 6th ray work, which is a level above the ray you are describing me to be working with, all the while you yourself are conveniently ignoring 5th ray as much as you want yourself. why demand someone to operate in a higher level, if you are not seeing any need to do it yourself ....

Not once have I described you from operating from 5th ray. Another projection.

The blue-ray center of energy streaming is the center which, for the first time, is outgoing as well as inpouring. Those blocked in this area may have difficulty in grasping the spirit/mind complexes of its own entity and further difficulty in expressing such understandings of self. Entities blocked in this area may have difficulties in accepting communication from other mind/body/spirit complexes.

Although 5D is the density of light/wisdom, it has it's own contexts within third density, as stated above by Ra. The contexts are clear: honest communication and understanding of the self and others. I very much resonate with Zen's interpretation and description, above.

Aptly, this is very much tied the cause of this rather lengthly discussion :¬)

---

I just stumbled on this quote, and found it quite relevant to this thread in terms of firstly Ra's compassion/consideration, and secondly, the understanding of energy rays, specifically blue (sorry yossy) ;¬)

38.5 Questioner: Could you tell me how each of the rays, red through violet, would appear in a perfectly balanced and undistorted entity?

Ra: I am Ra. We cannot tell you this for each balance is perfect and each unique. We do not mean to be obscure.

Let us offer an example. In a particular entity, let us use as an example a Wanderer; the rays may be viewed as extremely even, red, orange, yellow. The green ray is extremely bright. This is, shall we say, balanced by a dimmer indigo. Between these two the point of balance resides, the blue ray of the communicator sparkling in strength above the ordinary. In the violet ray we see this unique spectrograph, if you will, and at the same time the pure violet surrounding the whole; this in turn, surrounded by that which mixes the red and violet ray, indicating the integration of mind, body, and spirit; this surrounded in turn by the vibratory pattern of this entity’s true density.

[unity100]

you cannot use blue ray, if you are moving with negative forms of orange/yellow. for, blue ray is not found in negative spectrum as we are told.

Really? I remember green being the ray that was missing in the polarized STS entity. Can you provide a quote?

actually it came out even further :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#3

Due to the fact that the primary color, shall we say, or energy blue is missing from the negatively oriented system of power, the green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in the vibratory schedules or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration.

the above information basically says that, in negative spectrum, because energy blue is missing from the negative system, green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in negative system.

this is probably due to the fact that the blue ray of communication facilitates communication in between entities, therefore, feeling empathy for other entities, the feelings of other entities would be carried through blue ray of communication. that energy being ignored, would make the entity oblivious to others' feelings magically and spiritually. it would also provide the entity with totally perceiving the world as it wants to perceive it, and project this false/lie perception to others, to also polarize them.

These statements seem to contradict each other. You just said blue ray is not found in negative, then you said it is used in negative. Can you clarify please?

the use of 5th level energy, blue, manifests in negative spectrum as lack of that energy - lie, misrepresentation and so on. the energy goes in, instead of going out.

Negative use of blue ray might also take the form of telling the truth, but in a cruel way.

If I walked up to a horribly disfigured person, say someone who had been severely burned or otherwise maimed, and said, "Your body is ugly and gross! You might scare children who think you're a monster!" I'd be telling the truth, but my action is STS because it's cruel, insensitive, and serves no purpose other than to hurt.

no it doesnt. negative use of blue in this case would be to tell what the entity wants or doesnt want to hear, in order to make it dependent on the entity and its control for entity's benefit. that requires that the other entity should not have any kind of hesitations or irritation from obliging with the other entity. that, excludes telling of truth in brutal fashion, because it would alienate the other entity.

what you depict could only be true for a negative 4d entity who would want to inflict pain on the other entity. however, in this case, 'truth' has little relevance.

Are you saying STS entities cannot be honest? I strongly disagree. Honesty can be used to hurt and manipulate

so you basically did not spend any noticeable time pondering what sts is, how sts systems described in the material work, how sts societies told in the system are, and the examples of sts construct in the past of this planet ?

yet, you are making so sharp statements about blue, truth, sts, and their usage ...

yes, these kind of stuff cause me to react in a manner which some of you find distasteful. these are SO very important subjects and matters, yet, people have so sharp and certain opinions about these - but what's more important, they are using these inaccurate opinions to gauge what acts are sts, what acts are sto and so on.

ill start simple and go deeper in spiritual basics.

- in every sts society/construct in the past of this planet, lie and false information are basics in the feature of the society. from manipulation to religion from deification of personas to creating wars for profit and misrepresenting acts, including the immense number of lies/misrepresentations nazis have perpetuated outside and among themselves, to very events that are happening today, like the libya, afghanistan, iraq cases and more, to tv evangelists to wall street, wherever there is self serving, there is lie that facilitates it.

- entities who are consciously trying to exploit others, always lie. they do not, cannot be honest. doing as such, decreases their chances of profiting from others due to myriad of reasons. only temporal truths are given if it is inevitable, and even then these are never presented in a way that would disturb the people that desire to be manipulated.

- orion societies polarize by the higher ups in the hierarchy taking the credit for whatever happens. the existence of others' effort and successes are ignored, and the higher up positions take all credit for any success, as if they have themselves did it, even if they had no relevance to it. this can also be seen in the negative social constructs on this planet, from governments to corporations.

- the only way to be oblivious and impervious to other entities feelings and pains is the lack of blue ray. this, prevents communication with other entities. but more importantly, it magically makes the entity impervious to communication from aside - and this includes the thoughts and feelings a mind/body/spirit complex inevitably transmits through the unpreventable telepathy. moreover, lack of blue allows the entity to perceive the world as it wants to perceive it, shaped by its own desire - another lie. so, other entities that are enduring pain due to him/her can be perceived to be doing it willingly, or any other justification or lie can be dressed over basic realities.

- when the 5th ray is missing, the other entities are basically non-existent as far as your own self is concerned - you basically totally engulfed in your own world since the other entities' communique/existence cant seep through the ray of communication. this is one reason why 5th d negative entity is depicted as extremely intensified, and isolated, seeing no value in anything else, in the material. its totally their own world. presence of 5th ray totally damages this world, due to the information that other entities with their own free wills conflicting this negative entity will seep in and disturb the entity's psyche.

- 5th ray is the ray of knowledge. if, there is truth in its existence, there has to be lie in its absence. otherwise, there cant be no polarization. one will emit the truth, lack of it will absorb the truth.

There are multiple ways to 'pursue music.' I might not have had enough desire and passion to 'do it anyway' and become a huge star, but I certainly did have enough desire and passion to sing for fun, and explore singing. My mother had no right to take that away from me.

as one of my seniors and long time childhood friend told me when i quit the university i entered in qualifying in 499th in 1,5 million examinees ; "Apparently you didnt want to finish this curriculum. if you have wanted it enough, you would do it".

apparently, you didnt want to sing even in friend's circles enough that you couldnt pass a small hurdle your mother presented you.

In that case, she could have truthfully said something like:

"Honey, I'm so happy to hear you are interested in singing! Would you like voice lessons when you get a little older? Here, let me teach you how to breathe deeply and get the most out of your voice."

and that would be a lie, a false information, a false hope.

she was not happy at that point to see you sing apparently. and even if she was, her dissatisfaction at your singing had had suppressed it to the point she expressed it.

That's irrelevant. What's relevant to an STO entity is that it isn't our job to provide negative catalyst. That is the job of STS entities. They do their job well; let them do it. There is already plenty of negative catalyst. The job of STO is to radiate love.

Squashing a child's dreams or even momentary exuberance isn't STO; it's STS. No matter how you slice it.

negative catalyst would be your mother telling you that you have a very good singing voice, and then using that amiable condition to manipulate you to doing things for her, or put you through various classes and lessons in order to make you participate in contests to make money over you.

..............

it seems a lot of people equate the popular society's 'negative' reaction/emotion definition with the polarization's 'negative'.

they are not same. someone telling you some bad word, is not something negative in POLARIZATION. it is negative in the sense that popular culture loads some desirable/undesirable meanings onto situations and words and attitudes.

again - they are NOT the same.

negative means,manipulating and using other entities for your own benefit. irritating other entities, do not serve that aim. you can find that many negative entities you can easily identify, are soft spoken entities, or entities that speak rather rarely.

again - negative polarization is USING something else for your own gain. it is not 'irritating behaviors' or 'emotionally charged undesirable harsh conduct/words' or irritating people or anything.

I find this amusing, knowing what I know about the music industry. For every 1 musician/singer to hit the big time, there are thousands who don't. The music industry is difficult enough as it is. We don't have to worry about people with horrible voices recording songs and imposing them on us when we turn on the radio. It might happen occasionally because that particular singer had some quirk that people liked for some reason, and it got them famous. (Like Rod Stewart with his raspy voice for example) But in those cases, obviously enough people liked the voice or he wouldn't have sold so many records.

your sound quality has little to do with your fate as a singer. if you are not fated, you just do not become a singer or succeed at it. this is simply due to the fact that your spirit does not desire it as a path to be walked. in that case, nomatter what you do, you wont succeed. in the opposite case, nomatter what you do, you will gravitate, sometimes even pushed towards that path.

An adult singing opera in a compact car is vastly different from a child singing outside while playing. You have given an extreme example.

It's highly unlikely that an adult would have such a skewed opinion of his own voice by that time.

you would be surprised.

Someone would surely have told him what his voice sounds like, by the time he's an adult.

and the very reason that adult is doing something like that, is because others had not at all told him that due to the exact very political dishonesty-ness that has been conditioned into modern culture. go figure.

This forum seems to think that intellectualizing = blue ray and feeling/intuiting = green ray.

We really need to get over this. Being logical isn't "blue". The intuitive and intellectual faculties are separate from the chakras. It's really pretty ridiculous how people try to say others are "working from blue" or "working from green". This is a gross oversimplification of the chakras.

Someone will come forward with some intuitive insight, unity will shoot it down with a logical argument, and then they'll have a fight about how the intuitive person is "green" and unity is "blue". The actual fight is the age-old conflict between feeling and logic, two separate ways of determining the truth. Feelings cant be logically defended, and logic can't be invalidated by feelings. Sometimes they agree sometimes they don't but it has nothing to do with anahata and vishuddha.

I think I'm gonna start a protest campaign on this forum based on "Leave Britney Alone!"

Leave the Chakras Alone! They have no part in your fight!! Thinking isn't blue ray!! Feeling isn't green ray!! They dont mean what you think they mean!

you are incorrect in this. all rays carry a certain manifestation of existence. and all of the manifestations are manifested through mind, which experiences the catalysts and creation through bodies (all included), which in turn itself is a projection of spirit.

there is nothing like 'intellectual mind'/'intellect' also - there is only mind. just like there isnt different forms of spirit.

what is being termed as 'intellectual approach', is mind conditioned according to scholastic heritage of the science subset of this planet's societal mind.

and, when you successfully free yourself from the conditionings of that subset so that you cross the border into paranormal/spiritual, you shed all of the conditionings that went with it. note that i mentioned 'successfully free'.

Although 5D is the density of light/wisdom, it has it's own contexts within third density, as stated above by Ra. The contexts are clear: honest communication and understanding of the self and others. I very much resonate with Zen's interpretation and description, above.

yes. and you want to exclude HONEST COMMUNICATION part from the blue ray, for political correctness.

[3DMonkey]

I wish this thread had a different title...

[Namaste]

LOL

[Oceania]

i guess we went off main topic.

[apeiron]

Good exposition of blue ray. (and lack of when negative)

Now, what about when green/blue is involved. Since compassion is part of it, how would green affect your use of blue when Monica's singing was irritating? (hey, I love Bach, but when is not the proper time, I find it irritating too).

Is not a temporal irritation potential for unnecessary long lasting effects in another entity? Regardless of cultural influences, it seems could contain lack of wisdom and compassion, because the expression was an expression of your present emotional status and not of what you usually feel, lets say, towards Bach.

Granted that you like this or the other can change over time, and above case is specific, but in the presence of green ray, expression of blue would be different that presence of orange/yellow.

I think this is what Monica is expecting (in retrospect) form mom's attitude, for example, she expects the mom blue ray expression to contain compassion. However, maybe it was lacking because lack of green, excessive orange/yellow, at the time.

[yossarian]

yes. the main difference in our perspectives is that, despite you are saying that you are operating from 4th ray, and describing me as operating from 5th ray, you are criticizing me for not mixing 5th ray with 4th ray as it should be in 6th ray work, which is a level above the ray you are describing me to be working with, all the while you yourself are conveniently ignoring 5th ray as much as you want yourself. why demand someone to operate in a higher level, if you are not seeing any need to do it yourself ....

Not once have I described you from operating from 5th ray. Another projection.

The blue-ray center of energy streaming is the center which, for the first time, is outgoing as well as inpouring. Those blocked in this area may have difficulty in grasping the spirit/mind complexes of its own entity and further difficulty in expressing such understandings of self. Entities blocked in this area may have difficulties in accepting communication from other mind/body/spirit complexes.

Although 5D is the density of light/wisdom, it has it's own contexts within third density, as stated above by Ra. The contexts are clear: honest communication and understanding of the self and others. I very much resonate with Zen's interpretation and description, above.

Aptly, this is very much tied the cause of this rather lengthly discussion :¬)

---

I just stumbled on this quote, and found it quite relevant to this thread in terms of firstly Ra's compassion/consideration, and secondly, the understanding of energy rays, specifically blue (sorry yossy) ;¬)

38.5 Questioner: Could you tell me how each of the rays, red through violet, would appear in a perfectly balanced and undistorted entity?

Ra: I am Ra. We cannot tell you this for each balance is perfect and each unique. We do not mean to be obscure.

Let us offer an example. In a particular entity, let us use as an example a Wanderer; the rays may be viewed as extremely even, red, orange, yellow. The green ray is extremely bright. This is, shall we say, balanced by a dimmer indigo. Between these two the point of balance resides, the blue ray of the communicator sparkling in strength above the ordinary. In the violet ray we see this unique spectrograph, if you will, and at the same time the pure violet surrounding the whole; this in turn, surrounded by that which mixes the red and violet ray, indicating the integration of mind, body, and spirit; this surrounded in turn by the vibratory pattern of this entity’s true density.

Nothing there contradicts my rant. Blue ray is about communicating, NOT LOGIC! When you communicate feelings you are still communicating. Poetry, music, crying, shouting, dancing -- all of these are communication and have nothing to do with logic. So no need to say sorry to yossy

My quest is to shout loud against the idea that 4th ray = feelings and 5th ray = logic. This Idea Must Die!

Logic/thinking is not a chakra!

Intuition/feelings are not a chakra!

Chant: Leave Chakras Alone! Leave Chakras Alone! They aren't what you think! They aren't what you think!

:p

[Namaste]

Nothing there contradicts my rant. Blue ray is about communicating, NOT LOGIC! When you communicate feelings you are still communicating. Poetry, music, crying, shouting, all of these are communication and have nothing to do with logic. So no need to say sorry to yossy

It was only meant in jest, in response to this (as the quote was chakra/ray related):

Leave the Chakras Alone! They have no part in your fight!!

I agree that we agree

[yossarian]

This forum seems to think that intellectualizing = blue ray and feeling/intuiting = green ray.

We really need to get over this. Being logical isn't "blue". The intuitive and intellectual faculties are separate from the chakras. It's really pretty ridiculous how people try to say others are "working from blue" or "working from green". This is a gross oversimplification of the chakras.

Someone will come forward with some intuitive insight, unity will shoot it down with a logical argument, and then they'll have a fight about how the intuitive person is "green" and unity is "blue". The actual fight is the age-old conflict between feeling and logic, two separate ways of determining the truth. Feelings cant be logically defended, and logic can't be invalidated by feelings. Sometimes they agree sometimes they don't but it has nothing to do with anahata and vishuddha.

I think I'm gonna start a protest campaign on this forum based on "Leave Britney Alone!"

Leave the Chakras Alone! They have no part in your fight!! Thinking isn't blue ray!! Feeling isn't green ray!! They dont mean what you think they mean!

you are incorrect in this.

I'm 100% incorrect? There isn't a shred of correctness in there that you can recognize and affirm?

all rays carry a certain manifestation of existence. and all of the manifestations are manifested through mind, which experiences the catalysts and creation through bodies (all included), which in turn itself is a projection of spirit.

there is nothing like 'intellectual mind'/'intellect' also - there is only mind. just like there isnt different forms of spirit.

what is being termed as 'intellectual approach', is mind conditioned according to scholastic heritage of the science subset of this planet's societal mind.

and, when you successfully free yourself from the conditionings of that subset so that you cross the border into paranormal/spiritual, you shed all of the conditionings that went with it. note that i mentioned 'successfully free'.

I agree with you. Once again, you fail to grasp the essence of my communication.

What we have are different bodies. The mental body or "the mind" expresses all the activated chakras. It doesn't express one chakra. Using the mind therefore has nothing to do with using blue ray. Using logic has nothing to do with blue ray.

The emotional body has feelings. The emotional body expresses all the activated chakras. It doesn't express just one chakra. Using the emotional body therefore has nothing to do with green ray or blue ray or any other ray. They are separate things.

Thanks for the lesson but you missed my point like usual. My point is that logic is not blue ray. Logic is a separate thing.

If you haven't noticed, people on this forum call anyone who is logical "blue" and anyone who is emotional "green". Rather to be more specific, if the emotion is socially considered to be positive (e.g. love, gratitude) they call it "green" and negative (e.g. anger) they call it one of the lower 3 chakras.

I am specifically starting a propaganda campaign to counteract the equation of blue with logic and green with feeling.

[3DMonkey]

A couple of members use that labeling. I don't think it's a majority.

[yossarian]

A couple of members use that labeling. I don't think it's a majority.

Proof that protest works.

[3DMonkey]

Lol. Okay

[unity100]

Good exposition of blue ray. (and lack of when negative)

Now, what about when green/blue is involved. Since compassion is part of it, how would green affect your use of blue when Monica's singing was irritating? (hey, I love Bach, but when is not the proper time, I find it irritating too).

it is impossible to make an analysis for that, without being in that exact particular position. a mother's affinity and proximity to her child is incomparable compared to someone living on the other side of the planet. a mother's senses about her child too. however my reaction would not take the form of sacrificing honesty in order to appease the child.

Is not a temporal irritation potential for unnecessary long lasting effects in another entity? Regardless of cultural influences, it seems could contain lack of wisdom and compassion, because the expression was an expression of your present emotional status and not of what you usually feel, lets say, towards Bach.

if it is a temporal irritation, you be honest, tell that you have been irritated temporarily, and describe what else you felt. a true, honest description of the situation and your feelings.

just like how i switch bach, if a chorus piece pops up. i dont try to listen it or fake pleasure listening it, to be politically correct or 'compassionate'.

I think this is what Monica is expecting (in retrospect) form mom's attitude, for example, she expects the mom blue ray expression to contain compassion. However, maybe it was lacking because lack of green, excessive orange/yellow, at the time.

or, maybe, mother did right.

Nothing there contradicts my rant. Blue ray is about communicating, NOT LOGIC! When you communicate feelings you are still communicating. Poetry, music, crying, shouting, dancing -- all of these are communication and have nothing to do with logic. So no need to say sorry to yossy

My quest is to shout loud against the idea that 4th ray = feelings and 5th ray = logic. This Idea Must Die!

Logic/thinking is not a chakra!

Intuition/feelings are not a chakra!

Chant: Leave Chakras Alone! Leave Chakras Alone! They aren't what you think! They aren't what you think!

:p

just what do you think 'logic' is then ?

the faculties that mind, body, spirit manifests, are all based on the energy that manifests in this octave, and this is divided into 7 main rays. there is no other way.

and blue, is the ray of KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM, COMMUNICATION. it carries all these properties. so, learning, is something that 5d entities or entities working with 5th suboctave ray of any density, actually make.

notice the requirement for graduating to 5d is the desire and readiness to learn how existence works.

I'm 100% incorrect? There isn't a shred of correctness in there that you can recognize and affirm?

that is 100% incorrect, because there is no way to manifest in this octave aside from expressing the properties that were arranged to manifest in this octave. and of course, the information you apparently forgotten about the properties of 5th ray, and 5d above.

What we have are different bodies. The mental body or "the mind" expresses all the activated chakras. It doesn't express one chakra. Using the mind therefore has nothing to do with using blue ray. Using logic has nothing to do with blue ray.

The emotional body has feelings. The emotional body expresses all the activated chakras.

no kind of 'mental body' was defined in the material we are studying. there is mind, body, spirit, and bodies are potentiated/activated depending on which density body is manifesting. there is no body like 'mental body'. instead, EVERYthing that is felt, experienced, thought, manifests in mind. that includes love, intuition, and other things. if needed, i can provide the necessary quote for that.

it seems you are overriding Ra material with hindu teachings.

If you haven't noticed, people on this forum call anyone who is logical "blue" and anyone who is emotional "green". Rather to be more specific, if the emotion is socially considered to be positive (e.g. love, gratitude) they call it "green" and negative (e.g. anger) they call it one of the lower 3 chakras.

that seems to be the case. it seems people are projecting the american/popular western cultural conditionings/biases to the positive/negatives and chakra system.

[apeiron]

Good exposition of blue ray. (and lack of when negative)

Now, what about when green/blue is involved. Since compassion is part of it, how would green affect your use of blue when Monica's singing was irritating? (hey, I love Bach, but when is not the proper time, I find it irritating too).

it is impossible to make an analysis for that, without being in that exact particular position. a mother's affinity and proximity to her child is incomparable compared to someone living on the other side of the planet. a mother's senses about her child too. however my reaction would not take the form of sacrificing honesty in order to appease the child.

Is not a temporal irritation potential for unnecessary long lasting effects in another entity? Regardless of cultural influences, it seems could contain lack of wisdom and compassion, because the expression was an expression of your present emotional status and not of what you usually feel, lets say, towards Bach.

if it is a temporal irritation, you be honest, tell that you have been irritated temporarily, and describe what else you felt. a true, honest description of the situation and your feelings.

just like how i switch bach, if a chorus piece pops up. i dont try to listen it or fake pleasure listening it, to be politically correct or 'compassionate'.

Or one can use the:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4sUPvDZf...re=related

[yossarian]

the mind itself is the mental body i was referring to.

Wisdom, knowledge, and communication can be achieved without logic. They can be achieved intuitively.

You make it sound like 3d entities can't learn or something. Basically I really have no idea what you're talking about it and it makes no sense. Ra said humans are mind/body/spirit complexes with 7 chakras. They didn't say that logic/intellect comes from the 5th chakra.

[unity100]

the mind itself is the mental body i was referring to.

no such definition was made in Ra material. mind actually was defined as something that is independent of any body. mind/spirit complex always remained constant, whereas bodies have been interchangeable.

You make it sound like 3d entities can't learn or something. Basically I really have no idea what you're talking about it and it makes no sense. Ra said humans are mind/body/spirit complexes with 7 chakras. They didn't say that logic/intellect comes from the 5th chakra.

please refer to book 4.

[Monica]

Due to the fact that the primary color, shall we say, or energy blue is missing from the negatively oriented system of power, the green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in the vibratory schedules or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration.

the above information basically says that, in negative spectrum, because energy blue is missing from the negative system, green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in negative system.

This is clearly an error in the transmission. That would indicate that green is present in the STS entity. And yet, here is what we know about green:

The center of heart, or green-ray, is the center from which third-density beings may springboard, shall we say, to infinite intelligence. Blockages in this area may manifest as difficulties in expressing what you may call universal love or compassion.

We know that STS entities lack compassion. They also don't value compassion.

Whereas, STS entities often fully express the characteristics of blue:

15.12
The blue-ray center of energy streaming is the center which, for the first time, is outgoing as well as inpouring. Those blocked in this area may have difficulty in grasping the spirit/mind complexes of its own entity and further difficulty in expressing such understandings of self. Entities blocked in this area may have difficulties in accepting communication from other mind/body/spirit complexes.

There are 2 possibilities:

The quote is correct, in which case STS entities would have difficulty communicating (blocked blue) but would show compassion.

or

The quote is in error. Ra meant to say green, in which case STS entities might have good communication skills, but unable to feel compassion.

Which makes more sense?

Here are some more attributes of green:

26.34 ...the green ray being polarizing slightly towards service to others.
31.5 ...The green ray is one of complete universality of love. This is a giving without expectation of return.
34.9 ...There are some few whose desires to aid society are of a green ray nature or above. These entities, however, are few due to the understanding, may we say, of fourth ray that universal love freely given is more to be desired than principalities or even the rearrangement of peoples or political structures.
34.10 ...Ra: I am Ra. Let us take two such positively oriented active souls no longer in your physical time/space. The one known as Albert went into a strange and, to it, a barbaric society in order that it might heal. This entity was able to mobilize great amounts of energy and what you call money. This entity spent much green ray energy both as a healer and as a lover of your instrument known as the organ.

The above quotes all indicate that green is the ray of giving, caring, healing, kindness, compassion, etc.

Green cannot be present in STS, while blue is not. That makes no sense whatsoever.

And here are some examples of Ra admitting to errors regarding rays:

32.3 Questioner: From the material that you transmitted February 17th you stated: “In third ray there are two possibilities. Firstly, if both vibrate in third ray there will be a mutually strengthening energy transfer.” What color is third ray in this material?
Ra: I am Ra. The ray we were speaking of in that material should be properly the green ray or fourth ray.

32.4 Questioner: So I should change that third to fourth or green?
Ra: This is correct. Please continue to scan for errors having to do with numbering, as you call them, as this concept is foreign to us and we must translate, if you will, when using numbers. This is an on-going weakness of this contact due to the difference between our ways and yours. Your aid is appreciated.

Yes, Ra acknowledged that they said 3rd when they meant 4th! And it didn't get caught until Don referenced that particular quote.

Would it have been caught if Don hadn't referenced it? If Ra said 3rd instead of 4th, then they could have said 5th instead of 4th on another occasion. This is what I think must have happened.

And another error that didn't get caught until Don questioned it:

34.15 Questioner: You just used the term third ray in that statement. Was that the term you meant to use?
Ra: I am Ra. We intended the green ray. Our difficulty lies in our perception of red ray and violet ray as fixed; thus the inner rays are those which are varying and are to be observed as those indications of seniority in the attempts to form an harvest.

This next quote seals the deal for me:

32.14 Questioner: I meant was it possible for a green ray person who is primarily of green ray activation to vary on both sides of the green ray in a large or a small amount in regards to energy activation, or is he primarily green ray?
Ra: I am Ra. We grasp the newness of material requested by you. It was unclear, for we thought we had covered this material. The portion covered is this: the green ray activation is always vulnerable to the yellow or orange ray of possession, this being largely yellow ray but often coming into orange ray. Fear of possession, desire for possession, fear of being possessed, desire to be possessed: these are the distortions which will cause the deactivation of green ray energy transfer.

Fear of possession, desire for possession, fear of being possessed, desire to be possessed deactivate green!

These are the very traits that define STS! Therefore, if those traits deactivate green, and yet are present in STS, then it logically follows that green is not present in STS.

Because, green cannot coexist with those traits, and we already know that those traits do exist in STS.

This supports, and perhaps even proves, my theory that Ra said blue when they meant to say green in the quote you provided.

And if I am correct, then your entire analysis of the rays should be reevaluated, for it is based on a false premise.

---

Moderator note: This thread will be split as soon as I get time to do it.

[unity100]

Due to the fact that the primary color, shall we say, or energy blue is missing from the negatively oriented system of power, the green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in the vibratory schedules or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration.

the above information basically says that, in negative spectrum, because energy blue is missing from the negative system, green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in negative system.

This is clearly an error in the transmission. That would indicate that green is present in the STS entity. And yet, here is what we know about green

there is no error in anything. the quote states that because blue is missing from the negative system of power, green and blue VIBRATORY ENERGIES are not seen in the VIBRATORY SCHEDULES Or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration.

it seems you have not understood the quote there at all.

Whereas, STS entities often fully express the characteristics of blue:

15.12
The blue-ray center of energy streaming is the center which, for the first time, is outgoing as well as inpouring. Those blocked in this area may have difficulty in grasping the spirit/mind complexes of its own entity and further difficulty in expressing such understandings of self. Entities blocked in this area may have difficulties in accepting communication from other mind/body/spirit complexes.

There are 2 possibilities:

The quote is correct, in which case STS entities would have difficulty communicating (blocked blue) but would show compassion.

or

The quote is in error. Ra meant to say green, in which case STS entities might have good communication skills, but unable to feel compassion.

Which makes more sense?

nothing makes sense if you dont understand the quote in detail.


there isnt any information there regarding blue ray energy center functioning the same with the positive entity.

actually, that quote relates to BLOCKAGES. an entity who is in 5th d, is not an entity BLOCKED in 5th chakra. you are confusing negative with blockage.

Here are some more attributes of green:

26.34 ...the green ray being polarizing slightly towards service to others.
31.5 ...The green ray is one of complete universality of love. This is a giving without expectation of return.
34.9 ...There are some few whose desires to aid society are of a green ray nature or above. These entities, however, are few due to the understanding, may we say, of fourth ray that universal love freely given is more to be desired than principalities or even the rearrangement of peoples or political structures.
34.10 ...Ra: I am Ra. Let us take two such positively oriented active souls no longer in your physical time/space. The one known as Albert went into a strange and, to it, a barbaric society in order that it might heal. This entity was able to mobilize great amounts of energy and what you call money. This entity spent much green ray energy both as a healer and as a lover of your instrument known as the organ.

The above quotes all indicate that green is the ray of giving, caring, healing, kindness, compassion, etc.

Green cannot be present in STS, while blue is not. That makes no sense whatsoever.

And here are some examples of Ra admitting to errors regarding rays:

apparently you are still moving from your misperception of the initial quote. and, confusing vibratory energy manifestations with negative/positive systems of power. you should go back and dwell on the quote.

green vibratory energy is missing from negative spectrum, because the negative system does not have blue energy.

32.3 Questioner: From the material that you transmitted February 17th you stated: “In third ray there are two possibilities. Firstly, if both vibrate in third ray there will be a mutually strengthening energy transfer.” What color is third ray in this material?
Ra: I am Ra. The ray we were speaking of in that material should be properly the green ray or fourth ray.

32.4 Questioner: So I should change that third to fourth or green?
Ra: This is correct. Please continue to scan for errors having to do with numbering, as you call them, as this concept is foreign to us and we must translate, if you will, when using numbers. This is an on-going weakness of this contact due to the difference between our ways and yours. Your aid is appreciated.

Yes, Ra acknowledged that they said 3rd when they meant 4th! And it didn't get caught until Don referenced that particular quote.

Would it have been caught if Don hadn't referenced it? If Ra said 3rd instead of 4th, then they could have said 5th instead of 4th on another occasion. This is what I think must have happened.

And another error that didn't get caught until Don questioned it:

34.15 Questioner: You just used the term third ray in that statement. Was that the term you meant to use?
Ra: I am Ra. We intended the green ray. Our difficulty lies in our perception of red ray and violet ray as fixed; thus the inner rays are those which are varying and are to be observed as those indications of seniority in the attempts to form an harvest.

[/quote]

has the date about orion entry been corrected because don questioned ? no.



This next quote seals the deal for me:

Fear of possession, desire for possession, fear of being possessed, desire to be possessed deactivate green!

These are the very traits that define STS! Therefore, if those traits deactivate green, and yet are present in STS, then it logically follows that green is not present in STS.

excuse me, but you are wrong again. deactivation of green ray does not mean you went negative. it means, you have fallen back into YELLOW. that may be positive, or negative yellow, depending on what your situation with yellow was, before you activated green.

i dont even know how you are able to confuse the two. missing green ray does not make an entity negative, neither does being possessive of another entity due to yellow/orange ray immaturity does not make another entity negative. the latter is just one of the lessons of 3rd density.

being negative requires a conscious effort to exploit others for yourself. just feeling a strong sense of identification to another entity does not make an entity negative,.

Because, green cannot coexist with those traits, and we already know that those traits do exist in STS.

This supports, and perhaps even proves, my theory that Ra said blue when they meant to say green in the quote you provided.

again, missing green ray manifestation does not make an entity negative. or sts. you should actually reevaluate your memory about what constitutes positive/negative - for, you have made all entities dwelling in 2nd and 3rd densities, negative/sts because they are missing green ray.


while at it, you should dwell on what the initial quote means, since it is important in regard to understanding negative and positive. 'negative system of power' and 'vibratory schedule', are two different things that you have missed to differentiate in between.

[Monica]

If I walked up to a horribly disfigured person, say someone who had been severely burned or otherwise maimed, and said, "Your body is ugly and gross! You might scare children who think you're a monster!" I'd be telling the truth, but my action is STS because it's cruel, insensitive, and serves no purpose other than to hurt.

no it doesnt. negative use of blue in this case would be to tell what the entity wants or doesnt want to hear, in order to make it dependent on the entity and its control for entity's benefit. that requires that the other entity should not have any kind of hesitations or irritation from obliging with the other entity. that, excludes telling of truth in brutal fashion, because it would alienate the other entity.

what you depict could only be true for a negative 4d entity who would want to inflict pain on the other entity. however, in this case, 'truth' has little relevance.

Whether 4D STS or 5D STS, do you agree that such an action is cruel, lacks compassion, and therefore is an STS act?

Are you saying STS entities cannot be honest? I strongly disagree. Honesty can be used to hurt and manipulate

so you basically did not spend any noticeable time pondering what sts is,

This is an example of a rude comment, and a violation of B4 guidelines. It's disrespectful to assume that the other person hadn't studied the material, just because they disagree with you.

As I just pointed out, I believe your analysis to be in error. I wouldn't say you hadn't studied the material. I simply disagree with your conclusions.

If you are indeed wrong, then you may be wrong about STS entities being capable of honesty as well.

My opinion is that it's just as wrong to assume that STS entities are never honest, as it is to assume that they are always honest.

Honesty has no relevance to an STS entity. An STS entity will use whatever info it has available to him, and if that info happens to be the truth, then so be it - it will be used just as ruthlessly as it would use lies.

yes, these kind of stuff cause me to react in a manner which some of you find distasteful.

No, nothing 'causes' you to react in 'distasteful' ways. YOU CHOOSE to react in distasteful ways.

You could just as easily choose to react in more respectful ways, as you've been asked to do by numerous members as well as the mods, numerous times.

these are SO very important subjects and matters, yet, people have so sharp and certain opinions about these - but what's more important, they are using these inaccurate opinions to gauge what acts are sts, what acts are sto and so on.

Yes, and that is ok, because the process of learning is what's important.

Furthermore, you yourself react in 'sharp and certain opinions' yet you have been proven wrong before, and I am of the opinion that you are wrong in this case too.

apparently, you didnt want to sing even in friend's circles enough that you couldnt pass a small hurdle your mother presented you.

You have missed the point. It doesn't matter whether I wanted to sing publicly or not. At age 10, I was singing just for fun. My exuberance was cruelly squashed by an insensitive mother.

I might never have sung publicly anyway. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that my momentary joy was extinguished.

In that case, she could have truthfully said something like:

"Honey, I'm so happy to hear you are interested in singing! Would you like voice lessons when you get a little older? Here, let me teach you how to breathe deeply and get the most out of your voice."

and that would be a lie, a false information, a false hope.

You cannot know that! How could you possibly know that it would be a false hope?

How could offering voice lessons be a false hope? That doesn't even make sense. In my example, I didn't suggest that she say: "Your voice is beautiful! You are a natural singer! You will be the next great star!" That would have been false hope. But that's not what I was suggesting at all.

Offering voice lessons would have been a constructive way to help a child make the most of whatever talent they have. It could also have been a way to explore singing to find out just how much I really liked it.

In junior high and high school, I enrolled in a Speech & Drama class for 3 years. I loved it! For a little while, I fancied myself becoming an actress.

But I dropped that idea on my own. No one needed to squash my dream for me. I figured it out on my own that I didn't want to pursue acting. But I had fun during those 3 years, so it was time well spent. It was a good experience.

Taking voice lessons could have been a good experience too. At the very least, it could have been a show of support by a loving mom.

she was not happy at that point to see you sing apparently. and even if she was, her dissatisfaction at your singing had had suppressed it to the point she expressed it.

You are correct that she wasn't happy. But that's because she was a very miserable person. Any normal, loving mother would be happy to witness her child's joy and exuberance.

My example was based on what a normal, loving mother might say.

negative catalyst would be your mother telling you that you have a very good singing voice, and then using that amiable condition to manipulate you to doing things for her, or put you through various classes and lessons in order to make you participate in contests to make money over you.

That's a different example of negative catalyst, but not the only possible one.

Do you not see lack of compassion as negative? Do you see no value in compassion or kindness at all?

[unity100]

If I walked up to a horribly disfigured person, say someone who had been severely burned or otherwise maimed, and said, "Your body is ugly and gross! You might scare children who think you're a monster!" I'd be telling the truth, but my action is STS because it's cruel, insensitive, and serves no purpose other than to hurt.

no it doesnt. negative use of blue in this case would be to tell what the entity wants or doesnt want to hear, in order to make it dependent on the entity and its control for entity's benefit. that requires that the other entity should not have any kind of hesitations or irritation from obliging with the other entity. that, excludes telling of truth in brutal fashion, because it would alienate the other entity.

what you depict could only be true for a negative 4d entity who would want to inflict pain on the other entity. however, in this case, 'truth' has little relevance.

Whether 4D STS or 5D STS, do you agree that such an action is cruel, lacks compassion, and therefore is an STS act?

no.

Are you saying STS entities cannot be honest? I strongly disagree. Honesty can be used to hurt and manipulate

so you basically did not spend any noticeable time pondering what sts is,

This is an example of a rude comment, and a violation of B4 guidelines. It's disrespectful to assume that the other person hadn't studied the material, just because they disagree with you.

As I just pointed out, I believe your analysis to be in error. I wouldn't say you hadn't studied the material. I simply disagree with your conclusions.

that is not a disagreement. and i am right in assuming that you havent spent time on these, since you evidently transferring the meanings western popular culture has in its modern culture into positive/negative systems of power. you are basically equating being a jerk or blunt, with negativity. whereas, ironically, the traits you apparently are associating with positivity, ranging from the political correctness that you value so much to being soft spoken, are excessively used and manifested by those who actually do sts work on top of the government and society. yet, this detail does not catch your eye.

not to mention you have concluded that missing green makes something negative/sts. which relegates any 3d entity to negative/sts status. you dont even remember that there are 3rd density negative societies in orion confederation, you dont even remember that there are positive and negative manifestations of yellow.

you just delegated everything to presence of green.

these are information that is present in entrance phases of the material.

If you are indeed wrong, then you may be wrong about STS entities being capable of honesty as well.

My opinion is that it's just as wrong to assume that STS entities are never honest, as it is to assume that they are always honest.

Honesty has no relevance to an STS entity. An STS entity will use whatever info it has available to him, and if that info happens to be the truth, then so be it - it will be used just as ruthlessly as it would use lies.

and here, you are equating information with honesty. that is also wrong. information does not have anything to do with 'honesty' as a general term. honesty is not something that is limited to information. even if a sts entity transmitted you accurate factual information, it would not disseminate the reason that it is disseminating that information, moreover, it would never communicate its feelings/desires/thoughts to you. that would mean that they would need to tell you how they intend to exploit you, what they feel about you, all the negative exploitative things that are associated with it. you wont get that kind of communication.

as for facts, we actually do not have any record of any such fact transmission in our history. despite Ra had had mentioned that when negatives meet a positive, the information they transmit take the form of warnings against future dangers, we dont have a solid example of this - what we know to be a negative transmission is 10 commandments, and they are just orders for stuff.

however it is safe to assume that Ra was precise on that one too, considering the amount of potential information that include warnings about future catastrophes in religions.

BUT, that does not mean this information, was truth, fact, or accurate and not lies.

yes, these kind of stuff cause me to react in a manner which some of you find distasteful.

No, nothing 'causes' you to react in 'distasteful' ways. YOU CHOOSE to react in distasteful ways.

You could just as easily choose to react in more respectful ways, as you've been asked to do by numerous members as well as the mods, numerous times.

surely. and the other people who are discussing with me when i react like that, may have chosen not to easily switch on/off about the discussion and selectively switch on ignoring/acknowledging information depending on their bias/preference in just 2 pages, ignoring it when they see fit, and suddenly turning to acknowledge it when they see otherwise.

if you relegate these to 'choice' everything is very simple. we can just choose not to, right ?

Furthermore, you yourself react in 'sharp and certain opinions' yet you have been proven wrong before, and I am of the opinion that you are wrong in this case too.

me being proven wrong before does not make universal positive/negative systems of power, things that are relegated and debased into simplified perceptions of american society and its biases.

apparently, you didnt want to sing even in friend's circles enough that you couldnt pass a small hurdle your mother presented you.

You have missed the point. It doesn't matter whether I wanted to sing publicly or not. At age 10, I was singing just for fun. My exuberance was cruelly squashed by an insensitive mother.

I might never have sung publicly anyway. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that my momentary joy was extinguished.

and what if your momentary joy not being extinguished, would cause you to follow a totally different path in life, and die of drug overdose in some shady motel room on some highway at the age of 25 ?

why is that opportunity/path more valuable than this one, or this opportunity/path was more valuable than the other ?

In that case, she could have truthfully said something like:

"Honey, I'm so happy to hear you are interested in singing! Would you like voice lessons when you get a little older? Here, let me teach you how to breathe deeply and get the most out of your voice."

and that would be a lie, a false information, a false hope.

You cannot know that! How could you possibly know that it would be a false hope?

How could offering voice lessons be a false hope? That doesn't even make sense. In my example, I didn't suggest that she say: "Your voice is beautiful! You are a natural singer! You will be the next great star!" That would have been false hope. But that's not what I was suggesting at all.

Offering voice lessons would have been a constructive way to help a child make the most of whatever talent they have. It could also have been a way to explore singing to find out just how much I really liked it.

and, you may have died off drug overdose still.

'how can something be of false hope' has actually an answer which is much more deep and delicate than the question itself.

it relates to the spirit, its drive, its desire, and trust in the spirit.

In junior high and high school, I enrolled in a Speech & Drama class for 3 years. I loved it! For a little while, I fancied myself becoming an actress.

But I dropped that idea on my own. No one needed to squash my dream for me. I figured it out on my own that I didn't want to pursue acting. But I had fun during those 3 years, so it was time well spent. It was a good experience.

you yourself are saying that you fancied being something else for a while. this means, if the singing was treated the same, you could fancy it too. maybe the time spent in singing lessons would not be well spent as the one spent in acting lessons were, and different things that were undesirable were going to happen ?

she was not happy at that point to see you sing apparently. and even if she was, her dissatisfaction at your singing had had suppressed it to the point she expressed it.

You are correct that she wasn't happy. But that's because she was a very miserable person. Any normal, loving mother would be happy to witness her child's joy and exuberance.

My example was based on what a normal, loving mother might say.

again, an entity acting irate or undesirable does not constitute negativity.

negative catalyst would be your mother telling you that you have a very good singing voice, and then using that amiable condition to manipulate you to doing things for her, or put you through various classes and lessons in order to make you participate in contests to make money over you.

That's a different example of negative catalyst, but not the only possible one.

Do you not see lack of compassion as negative? Do you see no value in compassion or kindness at all?

that is a negative catalyst. someone acting irrate or undesirable towards someone else, is NOT something that is in the negative system of power or polarization. the other entity needs to exploit you for it to be a negative act. some 3d entity acting like a jerk, does not constitute 'negative'. you are just transplanting the word 'negative' the modern western social culture uses to denote undesirable behavior to the negative system of power definition.

'acting like a jerk' is not something that was in the definition of negative system. negative system of power was defined as exploiting others for your own benefit.

[Monica]

there is no error in anything.

You don't know that for sure.

the quote states that because blue is missing from the negative system of power, green and blue VIBRATORY ENERGIES are not seen in the VIBRATORY SCHEDULES Or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration.

You have made sense of it in your mind, therefore you believe it to be correct. But you might be wrong.

it seems you have not understood the quote there at all.

Maybe. Or maybe you have misunderstood it. Either is possible.

nothing makes sense if you dont understand the quote in detail.

Or it might make sense, but be wrong.

A person who doesn't understand the quote in detail, might actually be correct in the overall concept.

We are debating this or that quote. Very much like when the Christians debate Bible quotes.

But maybe we are missing the point. Maybe the point is to understand the concepts, rather than the details.

My understanding of the STO path is that it's loving, caring, kind and compassionate.

The STS path is inconsiderate, insensitive, uncompassionate, and even cruel.

You seem to be arguing in favor of the STS path.

If you think an STO entity can extinguish the joy in a child without concern, then it is you who has misunderstood the paths....regardless of how you interpret and analyze Ra's words.

apparently you are still moving from your misperception of the initial quote.

Likewise, you may be doing that very thing you say I am doing.

Neither can be proven.

I am simply asking you to consider that you may be wrong.

you should go back and dwell on the quote.

Indeed I will! Likewise, you should consider the possibility that you have created an elaborate analysis based on an error.

green vibratory energy is missing from negative spectrum, because the negative system does not have blue energy.

It doesn't make sense to me that green would be lacking because a higher ray is lacking. The higher rays build on the lower. Green is the foundation for the higher rays.

You are using circular logic. You are trying to prove that the quote is correct, because the quote says xyz. But if the quote is incorrect, then your entire premise is wrong.

Consider this:

87.11 Questioner: I’m sorry for getting confused on my question here in not asking it correctly. There is a philosophical point of central importance that I am trying to clear up here. It has to do with the fact that fourth-density negative seems to be aware of the first distortion. They are in a nonveiled condition, and they seem to use this knowledge of the first distortion to maintain the situation that they maintain in contacts with this planet. I am trying to extract their ability to understand the mechanism of the first distortion and the consequences of the veiling process and still remain in a mental configuration of separation on the negative path. I hope that I have made myself clear there. I have had a hard time asking this question.
Ra: I am Ra. The answer may still not satisfy the questioner. We ask that you pursue it until you are satisfied. The fourth-density negative entity has made the choice available to each at third-density harvest. It is aware of the full array of possible methods of viewing the universe of the One Creator and it is convinced that the ignoring and non-use of the green-ray energy center will be the method most efficient in providing harvestability of fourth density. Its operations among those of third density which have not yet made this choice are designed to offer to each the opportunity to consider the self-serving polarity and its possible attractiveness.

This seems to indicate why green is lacking. Not because of lack of blue.

has the date about orion entry been corrected because don questioned ? no.

Providing an example of when Ra corrected a mistake does not negate the possibility that another mistake went undetected.

Had Ra known that they would correct every error, why did they say "Please continue to scan for errors" ?

excuse me, but you are wrong again. deactivation of green ray does not mean you went negative. it means, you have fallen back into YELLOW. that may be positive, or negative yellow, depending on what your situation with yellow was, before you activated green.

In some cases, yes. That would depend on the density of the entity and whether the higher chakras had been activated.

i dont even know how you are able to confuse the two. missing green ray does not make an entity negative, neither does being possessive of another entity due to yellow/orange ray immaturity does not make another entity negative. the latter is just one of the lessons of 3rd density.

being negative requires a conscious effort to exploit others for yourself.

An entity with an active green ray could not exploit others.

---

Whether 4D STS or 5D STS, do you agree that such an action is cruel, lacks compassion, and therefore is an STS act?

no.

Wow. You continue to astonish me.

Thank you for making crystal clear that you don't value the things most of us hold dear and consider to be hallmarks of the STO path: kindness, compassion, and caring for others.

[unity100]

You have made sense of it in your mind, therefore you believe it to be correct. But you might be wrong.

You have made sense of it in your mind, therefore you believe it to be correct. But you might be wrong.

Maybe. Or maybe you have misunderstood it. Either is possible.

i have given extensive explanation behind the reasoning, and even how the mechanics in regard to spiritual aspect of it works.

please prove me wrong/misunderstood over the explanation i have given.

My understanding of the STO path is that it's loving, caring, kind and compassionate.

The STS path is inconsiderate, insensitive, uncompassionate, and even cruel.

yes, and then that means, you do not understand what negative/sts is.

negative path, is the path of EXPLOITING others. not irritating them.

an entity can be positive or negative, without even having activated green energy center, even while being in late 3d, which is something that you equate with all the emotions you recount above.

all manifestations of negative/positive depend on the density that entity manifests in, and the ray themselves. there is no thumb rule saying that an entity which 'acts like a jerk' will be negative.

If you think an STO entity can extinguish the joy in a child without concern, then it is you who has misunderstood the paths....regardless of how you interpret and analyze Ra's words.

a mother of a kitten can also extinguish the joy of playfulness in its kitten by just swinging a paw in a random time.

that does not make the cat, negative or sts. its just a meaning loaded onto it by popular culture.

I am simply asking you to consider that you may be wrong.

i have reconsidered, and i am not wrong. i have given many reasons, none of which you have invalidated or countered. you are giving many 'maybe's to me, each of which i am explaining. you can keep doing that and i can keep explaining for eternity, which will not be fruitful. how about you go back and invalidate the explanation/reasoning i have given ?

It doesn't make sense to me that green would be lacking because a higher ray is lacking. The higher rays build on the lower. Green is the foundation for the higher rays.

You are using circular logic. You are trying to prove that the quote is correct, because the quote says xyz. But if the quote is incorrect, then your entire premise is wrong.

Consider this:

there is nothing 'circular' about it. you are just forgetting very important spiritual information, AGAIN, while making that statement :

the creation goes from top to bottom, spreading from infinite intelligence's central sun towards outside and downwards towards densities, and in Ra's words 'recapitulating the lessons in the reverse order' when it goes back.

that means, the proliferation of everything spiritual comes from top down, from HIGHER density to the lower, and the learning of lessons go from bottom up.

this is also the reason behind the mechanic Ra explains as 'the higher energy field governing the lower' and 'hierarchical nature of creation' from higher frequency to lower frequency.

the concept flows from top towards bottom. the negative system of power, therefore is realized by omitting the blue from the format, which manifests as blue, and green being missing from the vibration spectrum IN MANIFESTATION.

"it is convinced that the ignoring and non-use of the green-ray energy center will be the method most efficient in providing harvestability of fourth density. "

................

This seems to indicate why green is lacking. Not because of lack of blue.

the above does not tell anything regard to 'because's or reasons. it says, the reason for the decision for negative path. it does not explain how that lacking of green ray, is manifested and effected.

the quote you are claiming erroneous, does that. it says, BECAUSE the blue is omitted from the negative system of power, BLUE and GREEN energies are not seen in negative vibration spectrum.

Providing an example of when Ra corrected a mistake does not negate the possibility that another mistake went undetected.

Had Ra known that they would correct every error, why did they say "Please continue to scan for errors"

no mistake can go undetected for an entity which is standing past 6th density, being independent of time to the point of being able to travel back in time to see why a tape recorder has malfunctioned, or seeing potential futures of a particular planet all with their probabilities.

any mistakes that were temporally left undetected, were probably left there in order to test the study group.

In some cases, yes. That would depend on the density of the entity and whether the higher chakras had been activated.

no actually it wouldnt - an entity which was 3d and negatively polarized would be exploiting others consciously for its own self. not irritating others for random reasons. it would be carefully manipulating others as best as can be achieved in 3rd d. not randomly being a jerk or acting hostile as a 2d entity would.

the traits you associate with the caring/compassion/this/that, are traits of 4d, and they mainly get into play for the lack of concern of entity for others while exploiting others for its self - NOT solely lack of concern for others.

in short, if your mother did not exploit you in that singing business, it does not constitute a sts act. you may dub it as being an inconsiderate jerk, at best, if your mother was not being brutally honest, but you cannot label it something grand as sts behavior.

---

Whether 4D STS or 5D STS, do you agree that such an action is cruel, lacks compassion, and therefore is an STS act?

no.

Wow. You continue to astonish me.

Thank you for making crystal clear that you don't value the things most of us hold dear and consider to be hallmarks of the STO path: kindness, compassion, and caring for others.

hallmark of the sto path, is serving others. traits of positive 4d, are not 'hallmarks' of the sto path.

else, there wouldnt be positive/negative inclinations and spectrum in 3rd, 5th, and 6th densities. a positive 3d entity may not have any manifestation of compassion, KINDNESS, but, it may be positively serving other entities through any social means you can have in 3d. this includes military acts, this includes anything else.

you are transplanting a SINGLE density's meaning and manifestations, to ENTIRE octave, which includes SEVEN more densities in addition to that one.

you should also remember that Ra has said that 2d is also another density with its polarities and inclinations.

[Monica]

i have given extensive explanation behind the reasoning, and even how the mechanics in regard to spiritual aspect of it works.

please prove me wrong/misunderstood over the explanation i have given.

Neither of us can prove that the other is right or wrong regarding any Law of One concepts, in most cases. All either of us can do is build a strong case, and invite the other person to consider it.

Time permitting, I will see about building a stronger case. But I will be very busy the next few days, so it might take me awhile.

My understanding of the STO path is that it's loving, caring, kind and compassionate.

The STS path is inconsiderate, insensitive, uncompassionate, and even cruel.

yes, and then that means, you do not understand what negative/sts is.

negative path, is the path of EXPLOITING others. not irritating them.

I am incredulous that you don't consider blatant, calloused cruelty and disregard for the feelings of others, to be STS! I mean, that is just so obvious. I don't need an explicit quote from Ra to know that.

We are not empty slates, ready to absorb all the knowledge from Ra. We are entities who have already learned much throughout our incarnations. Some things are quite obvious and don't need confirmation from Ra.

I believe I do understand the concepts of STS and STO quite well. And in my understanding, blatant disregard for the feelings and welfare of others is...polarizing in the direction of STS.

(As opposed to ignorant, unintentional disregard, which isn't STS but just indicative of an entity who hasn't yet learned to show concern for others.)

an entity can be positive or negative, without even having activated green energy center, even while being in late 3d, which is something that you equate with all the emotions you recount above.

No, what makes an entity positive is activation of green. 51% or more, to be precise.

An entity who is less than 51% but making progress towards the 51% is polarizing towards positive, but not yet at the point of conclusively positive.

all manifestations of negative/positive depend on the density that entity manifests in, and the ray themselves. there is no thumb rule saying that an entity which 'acts like a jerk' will be negative.

That's true. An entity who hasn't yet learned compassion might 'act like a jerk' unintentionally.

However, if the entity is aware of the feelings of others and still disregards them, then that is STS or polarizing in the direction of STS.

Certainly, at this late stage of the game, with harvest nigh, and knowing that all the souls presently incarnate are here because of seniority, it's reasonable to expect that any souls senior enough to be potentially harvestable, aren't in the category of 'not yet knowing'; thus if they behave in a cold, calloused way, it's because they are polarizing STS, not because they're ignorant.

Thousands of years ago, we might have given them the benefit of the doubt, but not now, so close to harvest.

a mother of a kitten can also extinguish the joy of playfulness in its kitten by just swinging a paw in a random time.

that does not make the cat, negative or sts. its just a meaning loaded onto it by popular culture.

Any souls presently incarnate, aren't ignorant like a cat.

Attributes of kindness and compassion have nothing to do with popular culture. Those attributes are found in all cultures. People find ways to convey caring, even when there are cultural and language barriers.

I am simply asking you to consider that you may be wrong.

i have reconsidered, and i am not wrong.

This is what rubs people the wrong way, unity. You aren't even leaving open the possibility that you might be wrong.

Just because you've reconsidered, and still think you're not wrong, doesn't mean you're not wrong.

You might be wrong in thinking that you're not wrong!

there is nothing 'circular' about it. you are just forgetting very important spiritual information, AGAIN, while making that statement :

the creation goes from top to bottom, spreading from infinite intelligence's central sun towards outside and downwards towards densities, and in Ra's words 'recapitulating the lessons in the reverse order' when it goes back.

that means, the proliferation of everything spiritual comes from top down, from HIGHER density to the lower, and the learning of lessons go from bottom up.

this is also the reason behind the mechanic Ra explains as 'the higher energy field governing the lower' and 'hierarchical nature of creation' from higher frequency to lower frequency.

the concept flows from top towards bottom. the negative system of power, therefore is realized by omitting the blue from the format, which manifests as blue, and green being missing from the vibration spectrum IN MANIFESTATION.

The above is your interpretation. It certainly doesn't prove that you're right.

"it is convinced that the ignoring and non-use of the green-ray energy center will be the method most efficient in providing harvestability of fourth density. "

................

This seems to indicate why green is lacking. Not because of lack of blue.

the above does not tell anything regard to 'because's or reasons. it says, the reason for the decision for negative path. it does not explain how that lacking of green ray, is manifested and effected.

the quote you are claiming erroneous, does that. it says, BECAUSE the blue is omitted from the negative system of power, BLUE and GREEN energies are not seen in negative vibration spectrum.

It makes more sense if you substitute green for blue.

no mistake can go undetected for an entity which is standing past 6th density, being independent of time to the point of being able to travel back in time to see why a tape recorder has malfunctioned, or seeing potential futures of a particular planet all with their probabilities.

Then why did Ra ask Don to be vigilant in detecting errors?

any mistakes that were temporally left undetected, were probably left there in order to test the study group.

By 'study group' do you mean the 3, or do you mean us?

The mistakes could have been left, to test us, so that we could develop our own abilities of discernment.

in short, if your mother did not exploit you in that singing business, it does not constitute a sts act. you may dub it as being an inconsiderate jerk, at best, if your mother was not being brutally honest, but you cannot label it something grand as sts behavior.

You have taken this discussion into a different direction. Initially, you stated that my mother did the right thing, implying, the right thing for an STO entity. I countered that by saying what she did was STS, not STO.

Now you are saying, no it wasn't STS.

If my mother was not sufficiently evolved, then yes, I agree, that it might have just been ignorant, and not actually STS.

However, that does not prove your original argument that what she did was actually 'the right thing' for an STO.

Please return to your original statement and explain how blatant disregard for a child's feelings can possibly be 'the right thing' for an entity attempting to polarize STO.


Note: This post has been edited to correct misquotes and add a statement.

[unity100]

I am incredulous that you don't consider blatant, calloused cruelty and disregard for the feelings of others, to be STS! I mean, that is just so obvious. I don't need an explicit quote from Ra to know that.

We are not empty slates, ready to absorb all the knowledge from Ra. We are entities who have already learned much throughout our incarnations. Some things are quite obvious and don't need confirmation from Ra.

I believe I do understand the concepts of STS and STO quite well. And in my understanding, blatant disregard for the feelings and welfare of others is...polarizing in the direction of STS.

(As opposed to ignorant, unintentional disregard, which isn't STS but just indicative of an entity who hasn't yet learned to show concern for others.)

sts needs to have exploitation of the other entity as an aim. this, has been the definition of sts. excuse me, but you cant redefine it. you cant just classify random undesirable acts that are manifestations of orange or yellow OR, someone honestly expressing their feelings of extreme dissatisfaction in a politically incorrect manner, as sts.

something that is politically incorrect and rude in your society, is not as such in others.

No, what makes an entity positive is activate of green. 51% or more, to be precise.

An entity who is less than 51% but making progress towards the 51% is polarizing towards positive, but not yet at the point of conclusively positive.

then that would mean that there can be NO positive 3d entity. or, NO entity that is in early 3d, can be positively oriented.

as i said, your effort to carry over 4d properties into 3d has basically redefined what positive means, and totally delegated entire creation below end 3d into being non-positive/negative. congratulations. you had had basically removed the reality of positively inclined 3d societies, and even negatively oriented 3d societies that are present in orion confederation, from existence.

That's true. An entity who hasn't yet learned compassion might 'act like a jerk' unintentionally.

However, if the entity is aware of the feelings of others and still disregards them, then that is STS or polarizing in the direction of STS.

no it isnt. there are endless cases in which the entity may act like that, and if none of these involve desire for manipulation and exploitation of the entity for its own benefit, then it cannot be dubbed as a sts act.

the reasons range from honesty to dysfunctional behavior patterns. being aware of the other entity's feelings does not mean that the entity will not act in any of these.

Certainly, at this late stage of the game, with harvest nigh, and knowing that all the souls presently incarnate are here because of seniority, it's reasonable to expect that any souls senior enough to be potentially harvestable, aren't in the category of 'not yet knowing'; thus if they behave in a cold, calloused way, it's because they are polarizing STS, not because they're ignorant.

Thousands of years ago, we might have given them the benefit of the doubt, but not now, so close to harvest.

precariously wrong.

entity may have problems in 4th suboctave of 3rd density. that does not make her a negative entity or negatively polarizing entity. you are exaggerating. or, the entity may have many other concerns in all other suboctaves than the 4th suboctave. that doesnt make the entity negative either,.

you are carrying over properties of 4th DENSITY to 3rd density. this is another density.

a mother of a kitten can also extinguish the joy of playfulness in its kitten by just swinging a paw in a random time.

that does not make the cat, negative or sts. its just a meaning loaded onto it by popular culture.

Any souls presently incarnate, aren't ignorant like a cat.

actually they are. the society is regressive towards orange, which was apparently a planet wide issue as Ra had dubbed the entire society as being in orange consciousness. when you are under the influence of a ray, you exhibit its properties.

Attributes of kindness and compassion have nothing to do with popular culture. Those attributes are found in all cultures. People find ways to convey caring, even when there are cultural and language barriers.

what is dubbed as kindness and compassion, however, differ in all cultures. and the ways to exhibit those too. you people find telling someone directly that they are wrong, as something incompassionate in america. we dont think like that here. i didnt see any other culture so far among the ones i interacted on internet or in my life, with the same bias either. it is apparently an anglo-american cultural perspective.

going further, i see that people dislike being rejected or hearing no as an answer to anything in america. and this reflects on their cultural behavior and expectations, creating things like the political correctness about seeming to accept everyone whereas being worlds apart from them, or lying/faking in order to keep up appearances of acceptance or harmony. and then this reflects on the definitions of positive/negative apparently, for someone who has gotten into spirituality.

I am simply asking you to consider that you may be wrong.

i have reconsidered, and i am not wrong.

This is what rubs people the wrong way, unity. You aren't even leaving open the possibility that you might be wrong.

Just because you've reconsidered, and still think you're not wrong, doesn't mean you're not wrong.

You might be wrong in thinking that you're not wrong!

yes. but i have reconsidered, reassessed, examined my explanations and rationalizations, and saw that i was not wrong.

you, on the other hand, have yet not provided any other explanation or reasoning, or mechanic or anything, other than 'maybe's. whereas i have assessed and considered all of your maybes. and you are now wanting me to consider that i was wrong. no - you WANT me to be wrong. however, i have reconsidered, and in this situation, what i have had brought is much more clear than what you have brought. at this point you are even claiming wrongness on some quote that is found in the material you are relying in, without bringing any justification for its wrongness. despite, as i have explained, it complements much more deeper and advanced spiritual information in regard to creation.

so, excuse me, but i cannot be wrong because you want me to be.

there is nothing 'circular' about it. you are just forgetting very important spiritual information, AGAIN, while making that statement :

the creation goes from top to bottom, spreading from infinite intelligence's central sun towards outside and downwards towards densities, and in Ra's words 'recapitulating the lessons in the reverse order' when it goes back.

that means, the proliferation of everything spiritual comes from top down, from HIGHER density to the lower, and the learning of lessons go from bottom up.

this is also the reason behind the mechanic Ra explains as 'the higher energy field governing the lower' and 'hierarchical nature of creation' from higher frequency to lower frequency.

the concept flows from top towards bottom. the negative system of power, therefore is realized by omitting the blue from the format, which manifests as blue, and green being missing from the vibration spectrum IN MANIFESTATION.

The above is your interpretation. It certainly doesn't prove that you're right.

ok then interpret it differently, and make it one that doesnt revolve cultural traits that are found in america or britain.

no mistake can go undetected for an entity which is standing past 6th density, being independent of time to the point of being able to travel back in time to see why a tape recorder has malfunctioned, or seeing potential futures of a particular planet all with their probabilities.

Then why did Ra ask Don to be vigilant in detecting errors?

totally leaving aside whatever kind of aim don's social memory complex/totality and don, subconsciously may have arranged to be learned in this work for don's person, totally leaving out the fact that more alert and conscious participants would have more magical faculties manifesting, aiding with endless things ranging from intuition to psychic defense, being alert would provide the means for the questioner to feel more appreciated. an alert student/teacher is much more effective than one that has put his head on the desk.

any mistakes that were temporally left undetected, were probably left there in order to test the study group.

By 'study group' do you mean the 3, or do you mean us?

The mistakes could have been left, to test us, so that we could develop our own abilities of discernment.

3.

in short, if your mother did not exploit you in that singing business, it does not constitute a sts act. you may dub it as being an inconsiderate jerk, at best, if your mother was not being brutally honest, but you cannot label it something grand as sts behavior.

You have taken this discussion into a different direction. Initially, you stated that my mother did the right thing, implying, the right thing for an STO entity. I countered that by saying what she did was STS, not STO.

Now you are saying, no it wasn't STS.

However, that does not prove your original argument that what she did was actually 'the right thing' for an STO.

Please return to your original statement and explain how blatant disregard for a child's feelings can possibly be 'the right thing' for an entity attempting to polarize STO.

im not saying something as such. i expressed my opinion about your mother at that point. you have identified the behavior in particular as something sts. from that point on, i am discussing about that particular behavior, and telling you that it is not a sts behavior.

If my mother was not sufficiently evolved, then yes, I agree, that it might have just been ignorant, and not actually STS.

sufficiently evolved, not sufficiently evolved ... a mother's instinct about its child, is not something that can be matched. thats why she probably did a very big favor to you. apparently, she did not do the same about your acting didnt she. i wonder why. a negative sts entity - per your definition - would do the same to you for your acting too. yet apparently you even entertained becoming an actress.

you should think about that. since it rather nullifies your arguments.

[Oceania]

Cats aren't ignorant! they're awesome. people are stupid.

[yossarian]

Just because the mother wasn't intentionally trying to exploit doesn't mean her act is positively polarizing.

Also I think you're projecting norms from turkey or something on to big parts of the world. Did you forget about Japan?

People may have good intentions when they're being mean but that doesn't make it a proper, effective, helpful or beneficial behaviour. Sure, on some level everything is fate and it's all working out for the best. But you need to keep it clear which level you're talking about. Child abuse, honestly intended to help the child, is not spiritually skillful behaviour.

[Namaste]

Cats aren't ignorant! they're awesome. people are stupid.

I love cats!

that is not a disagreement. and i am right in assuming that you havent spent time on these, since you evidently transferring the meanings western popular culture has in its modern culture into positive/negative systems of power. you are basically equating being a jerk or blunt, with negativity. whereas, ironically, the traits you apparently are associating with positivity, ranging from the political correctness that you value so much to being soft spoken, are excessively used and manifested by those who actually do sts work on top of the government and society. yet, this detail does not catch your eye.

You've just equated a genuine act of STO (compassion, caring for another) with a dishonest manipulation with means to control, STS!

That's quite an astonishing thing to draw parallels with. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Polarisation, to be precise :¬)

For the record, and this is not pointed at unity, rather an expression of thought to those interested in this discussion - I agree with Monica's words; we're eternal beings that have learned through aeons of experience. We have intuition and feeling. Inner wisdom. The Self is the greatest teacher of all. Experience is the key to unlocking this wisdom.

The Ra Material is only but a pointer. It points us to the Self. Using it as your sole teacher, over your own Self, removes you from your seat of power, turning you into nothing more than a regurgitator (that should be a word) of another's information. The intellect then controls the person, rather than it being called upon as a tool.

Wisdom though experience is the discovery of the Self, the only path to truth.

When I pass over I could discover that Ra was a joker, or L/L were messing around. I don't think that's the case, but it's possible. That truth then crumbles. My own experiences however can never fall to such crumbling, they stand firm in their truth.

Peace! :¬)