Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods

[Namaste]

I like to skip ahead to the last page and wing it. :-)

LOL

With respect to harvest and the changes that are to take place with our bodies, I would recommend Dolores Cannon's latest book

I found the ideas there to be highly congruent with the Ra Material. Especially if one allows for the idea that certain possibilities/probabilities exist now that weren't available in 1981. Hence Ra never spoke of them. This is just my personal interpretation, but there is only one way to found out for yourself.

I would ask only one favor- that my recommendation of this book is not taken as an assertion that I agree with every statement contained therein. If you would kindly offer me this small indulgence, it would allow me to feel as if I may speak more freely without concern of infringing upon free will, or for causing offense or consternation amongst the forum members.

Agree. I love Dolores!



6 minutes onwards is exceedingly interesting - a clear reference to the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow; "The Earth is calling for help", "I'm here to help the people". Brought a tear to my eye :¬)

[Edinburgh]

I truly don't understand why you people bother so much about the future and what will happen.

There are plenty of things happening in the now so you need to bother as much with the future. There's really no point to put so much energy in discussing and projecting and referring how and when the climax event will unfold, when there are better things to be done. Things like:
1. Clean up your own self
2. Helping the collective clean up & prepare better - family, friends, colleagues and further ...
3. Actively assist Gaia by being more loving, cautious and aware
4. Observe, follow and experience the shift process and events (which is what we all do anyway ). Increase your awareness.

I am starting to believe that everything is really dynamic and the plan for when and what to happen is constantly changing. There obviously are milestones, but the plan is being adjusted to us and we to it. I think that if there is a chance for increasing the harvestability, the shift period could span over many more years than Ra stated as possible/probable.

What you say makes a lot of sense. Just doing no.1 on the list is hard enough!!

[3DMonkey]

I'd rather say "dirty yourself up as much as you can"

[native]

now, returning after this informative tangent, if you combine the two information above, you will find that if the harvest was something that just waited at the behest of the entities inhabiting a planet, so that even the last entity born prior to harvest would die and have a chance for harvest, then the harvest duration for 3d planets would need to vary from 20-30 years, to a whopping 900 years. this doesnt take into account the fact that in more harmonious environments, the life expectancy of the 3d entity may be somewhat longer than 900 years.

This is an insightful comment..one that I have brought up before. I have no desire to understand these details, but here are my thoughts. Consider that on a planet where everyone lives 900 years..it would mean that their harmony has allowed significant progression in their development. They should have direct contact with higher density beings, as was the case with Ra, and we know the material has said other 3d civilizations are far more advanced than ours, capable of traveling off-planet.

These types of civilizations have the ability to use intelligent infinity/energy. Being so evolved, they are probably aware of the harvest approaching in space/time because of their contact with higher density beings. I would imagine their harmony would allow fourth density bodies to easily undergo changes, and their harmony would certainly allow the fourth density society to easily manifest. So come harvest time, the changes required are immensely accelerated.

Nonetheless, the harvest is a time/space event so I don't see any disparity between the experience of space/time and time/space. Their ratios are not 1:1. Less 'time' passes in time/space while events are going on here. I believe Ra even commented on this once, expressing how their passage of time is much much slower than ours. So even with your proposition of the harvest possibly lasting one year as experienced in time/space, this would translate to an immense amount of space/time.

Third density exists as a cycle of completion..it's why Ra can go to any point in our time. How can some mechanic that actually transcends even time/space (it's related to cosmic rhythms that form existence) have any real bearing in regards to space/time experience when all space/time experience is already completed? It can't. The harvest is a rhythm that does not slip from our fingers. The harvest is a point in the 'future' that is there ready and waiting as space/time and time/space move ever closer to it.

So I would suggest that you begin considering the more metaphysically vague concepts with more depth. Focusing on minute details of Ra's answers will not illuminate your approach. I would also urge you to consider that the harvest is not prophecy. Ra cannot come and speak of when our lives will end. It is a supreme violation of free will. They of course don't violate this because they have given everything we need to know to properly understand the harvest. Our false perceptions are our fault, as it is the nature of third density. We can be swayed either way dependent on how we seek. To fall prey to the idea of prophecy involves the workings of negative influence in your own mind, which is what I attempted to detail in Part II.

[native]

Here..I made a diagram illustrating the harvest. It might help others.

[3DMonkey]

Huh???

[loop]

What you say makes a lot of sense. Just doing no.1 on the list is hard enough!!

Actually, #2 is very easy and might appear to be much more beneficial in the longer run. The collective NEEDS HELP and those aware can really help!

Try this meditation, it's very powerful:
http://ascension101.com/en/events/event-...ctiva.html

We did it last night with my wife, as part of the live session organized by Inelia, and we are advised to repeat it as often as possible.

People, stop theorizing stuff. Really. Be here in the now and help it. We need to be of service & value to the process. Gaia and the collective urgently need help from within!

[unity100]

now, returning after this informative tangent, if you combine the two information above, you will find that if the harvest was something that just waited at the behest of the entities inhabiting a planet, so that even the last entity born prior to harvest would die and have a chance for harvest, then the harvest duration for 3d planets would need to vary from 20-30 years, to a whopping 900 years. this doesnt take into account the fact that in more harmonious environments, the life expectancy of the 3d entity may be somewhat longer than 900 years.

These types of civilizations have the ability to use intelligent infinity/energy. Being so evolved, they are probably aware of the harvest approaching in space/time because of their contact with higher density beings. I would imagine their harmony would allow fourth density bodies to easily undergo changes, and their harmony would certainly allow the fourth density society to easily manifest. So come harvest time, the changes required are immensely accelerated.

remember that Ra said when the clock ticks, the gates to intelligent infinity open, regardless of circumstances on a planet. nomatter what they be. so, this is not something that is dependent on anything on the planet or its inhabitants.

So I would suggest that you begin considering the more metaphysically vague concepts with more depth. Focusing on minute details of Ra's answers will not illuminate your approach. I would also urge you to consider that the harvest is not prophecy. Ra cannot come and speak of when our lives will end. It is a supreme violation of free will. They of course don't violate this because they have given everything we need to know to properly understand the harvest. Our false perceptions are our fault, as it is the nature of third density. We can be swayed either way dependent on how we seek. To fall prey to the idea of prophecy involves the workings of negative influence in your own mind, which is what I attempted to detail in Part II.

and i would suggest that you begin considering not trying to abstract-ize and vague-ize everything in Ra material, just because you want to evade something you find uncomfortable - the harvest event. you have gone at length of almost invalidating entirety of Ra material due to that approach before, and now you are going the way of abstracting and mystifying everything to sublime concepts in order to be able to abstract harvest event also. this will have the same effect with the time you almost invalidated entirety of Ra material for the same purpose - this time, everything will be abstracted, ranging from chakras to pyramids to moses. you will end up with 'pyramid is not an actual building' while trying to make harvest 'a shift in perspective'.

these are not our perceptions. when Ra was asked something that was related to this density, they answered with the precision for this density. if they couldnt, they stated that clearly and refrained from commenting.

People, stop theorizing stuff. Really. Be here in the now and help it. We need to be of service & value to the process. Gaia and the collective urgently need help from within!

some of us are here to learn and see things while living. are you aware how many more planets are going through this harvest event as of now, and how many more will go through it until this octave completes ?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Out of pure curiosity, what would one consider a safe amount of time before either re-interpreting the Ra material or disowning it completely if we see nothing noticeable happen as far as "harvest" goes, for the "instant" school of thought? The question is hypothetical, and while I know some don't even consider the possibility, I would like to understand that perspective.

[zenmaster]

Out of pure curiosity, what would one consider a safe amount of time before either re-interpreting the Ra material or disowning it completely if we see nothing noticeable happen as far as "harvest" goes, for the "instant" school of thought? The question is hypothetical, and while I know some don't even consider the possibility, I would like to understand that perspective.

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

The "way out" of being held down to a date or even a date range has been, and will continue to be, re-interpretation of the material and hand-waving of subjective feelings and subjective correlations of external events as important signs of imminence (of course always more important than the 'event' itself, due to the ego-bound, unconscious complexes involved).

[unity100]

Out of pure curiosity, what would one consider a safe amount of time before either re-interpreting the Ra material or disowning it completely if we see nothing noticeable happen as far as "harvest" goes, for the "instant" school of thought? The question is hypothetical, and while I know some don't even consider the possibility, I would like to understand that perspective.

entities who are on a level that could be aware of the harvest consciously would not need to do anything about it - what will be necessary for them would probably be what to do with their new situation/state and it brings. we could see some of them leave. either to go away because they are from higher densities or to reincarnate into 3-4d bodies here. it is possible that we may see some of those who are in wanderer status leave, even if they are not harvestable/harvested, or are not in a position to be aware of any process.

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

in short, you are basically saying that whole Ra material is just intellectual 'fluff' that can be relegated to the psychological subconscious with no reliability or real-world impact.

The "way out" of being held down to a date or even a date range has been, and will continue to be, re-interpretation of the material and hand-waving of subjective feelings and subjective correlations of external events as important signs of imminence (of course always more important than the 'event' itself, due to the ego-bound, unconscious complexes involved).

for those who actually SEE what happen - and not in a metaphorical fashion but in physical fashion - there is little doubt in regard to things that are happening. for others, it would remain conveniently irrelevant.

[native]

Huh???

I tried..ha! I did it on a whim..some things are slightly incorrect but the gist of it is there. The first illustration explains things linearly while the second is from the eternal perspective.

---

you have gone at length of almost invalidating entirety of Ra material due to that approach before, and now you are going the way of abstracting and mystifying everything to sublime concepts in order to be able to abstract harvest event also.

So then, how long should we expect this reality to last? When will it end? Let's get this on record. In 5 years we can discuss this.

[3DMonkey]

At the least, it will make me ponder illustrations of my own. With my skills, I'll need a pencil, paper, and a scanner.

[zenmaster]

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

in short, you are basically saying that whole Ra material is just intellectual 'fluff' that can be relegated to the psychological subconscious with no reliability or real-world impact.

And earlier, you said I didn't trust the Ra Material... As if your interpretation was "the" interpretation, somehow? Anyway, the so-called "real-world" impact is as it is. It's almost as if you think you're somehow doing a valuable service by insisting on the importance of completely transient events. As if the whole of Ra Material was being reduced to the act of foretelling and prophecy and not about learning.

The "way out" of being held down to a date or even a date range has been, and will continue to be, re-interpretation of the material and hand-waving of subjective feelings and subjective correlations of external events as important signs of imminence (of course always more important than the 'event' itself, due to the ego-bound, unconscious complexes involved).

for those who actually SEE what happen - and not in a metaphorical fashion but in physical fashion - there is little doubt in regard to things that are happening. for others, it would remain conveniently irrelevant.

It's not that difficult. Whatever one perceives important is relevant, others things not. If it finally takes physically-fashioned catalyst to SEE something happen, then something definitely must have been ignored along the way.

[3DMonkey]

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

in short, you are basically saying that whole Ra material is just intellectual 'fluff' that can be relegated to the psychological subconscious with no reliability or real-world impact.

That is close to what I am saying. (You might be taking it out on Zen, I don't know.). But, even so, I do maintain that it has relevant "real-world impact".

[Bring4th_Austin]

Out of pure curiosity, what would one consider a safe amount of time before either re-interpreting the Ra material or disowning it completely if we see nothing noticeable happen as far as "harvest" goes, for the "instant" school of thought? The question is hypothetical, and while I know some don't even consider the possibility, I would like to understand that perspective.

entities who are on a level that could be aware of the harvest consciously would not need to do anything about it - what will be necessary for them would probably be what to do with their new situation/state and it brings. we could see some of them leave. either to go away because they are from higher densities or to reincarnate into 3-4d bodies here. it is possible that we may see some of those who are in wanderer status leave, even if they are not harvestable/harvested, or are not in a position to be aware of any process.

But as has been pointed out frequently, "all are harvested regardless of progress." Taking the standpoint that harvest is an inescapable event that will have noticeable effect on everyone's lives (even in space/time), at what point is the material to be re-interpreted or abandoned? Say we get to the end of 2012 and there are no noticeable spiritual changes and life seems to be the same as it has always been. How much longer will you (any firm believer in an instant and noticeable harvest) wait for an event?

[native]

At the least, it will make me ponder illustrations of my own. With my skills, I'll need a pencil, paper, and a scanner.

Oh no! Do not put the inner workings of your mind on paper..you will cause my head to explode! No..go ahead. In my second illustration, you could add six more concentric circles representing each density, in which the higher contains all lower. The more you move outwards, the more one becomes ever increasingly ingrained in the present, as you become more and more a part of the whole creation.

Is your new baby born?

[Bring4th_Austin]

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

The "way out" of being held down to a date or even a date range has been, and will continue to be, re-interpretation of the material and hand-waving of subjective feelings and subjective correlations of external events as important signs of imminence (of course always more important than the 'event' itself, due to the ego-bound, unconscious complexes involved).

Perhaps the terms "instant" and "gradual" do not fully express the opposing schools of thought I was trying to define. "Instant" being described as a noticeable event which will impact our lifetimes in a very real way. "Gradual" being described as a seamless change, perhaps only barely noticeable or not at all, to the degree where when the event is complete, there is no difference from one day to the next, yet a noticeable difference in a larger amount of time.

[3DMonkey]

Is your new baby born?

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=3317

Will be six weeks this Fri

[zenmaster]

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

The "way out" of being held down to a date or even a date range has been, and will continue to be, re-interpretation of the material and hand-waving of subjective feelings and subjective correlations of external events as important signs of imminence (of course always more important than the 'event' itself, due to the ego-bound, unconscious complexes involved).

Perhaps the terms "instant" and "gradual" do not fully express the opposing schools of thought I was trying to define. "Instant" being described as a noticeable event which will impact our lifetimes in a very real way.

In addition to not being able to define "instant", connotations for "noticeable" and "very real" are also relegated to purely subjective and selective (ephemeral) notions.

"Gradual" being described as a seamless change, perhaps only barely noticeable or not at all, to the degree where when the event is complete, there is no difference from one day to the next, yet a noticeable difference in a larger amount of time.

I don't understand either of these "options". If, when one dies during harvest, they qualify for the next vibration, they get a new core vibration. If the transition to the higher vibration is hundreds of years, then they (now, what Ra calls part of the "new breed") probably have only partial use of the abilities afforded to that higher vibration.

[native]

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=3317

Will be six weeks this Fri

Ohhhh..congratulations man! My love goes out to you and your family.

[Bring4th_Austin]

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

The "way out" of being held down to a date or even a date range has been, and will continue to be, re-interpretation of the material and hand-waving of subjective feelings and subjective correlations of external events as important signs of imminence (of course always more important than the 'event' itself, due to the ego-bound, unconscious complexes involved).

Perhaps the terms "instant" and "gradual" do not fully express the opposing schools of thought I was trying to define. "Instant" being described as a noticeable event which will impact our lifetimes in a very real way.

In addition to not being able to define "instant", connotations for "noticeable" and "very real" are also relegated to purely subjective and selective (ephemeral) notions.

I quite understand what you're saying. But I always imagined the "instant" harvest picture painted by Unity (and others) to be an inescapable event in which none would question the actual existence and passing of such event.

Let's say that one day the sky instantly turned red. Few would exist who would legitimately try to refute this fact. It would be known by all who had seen the blue sky and now see a red sky. But let's say that the sky turned red gradually over a period of 1000 years. The change would not be noticeable day-to-day, but still apparent over a period of time.

"Gradual" being described as a seamless change, perhaps only barely noticeable or not at all, to the degree where when the event is complete, there is no difference from one day to the next, yet a noticeable difference in a larger amount of time.

I don't understand either of these "options". If, when one dies during harvest, they qualify for the next vibration, they get a new core vibration. If the transition to the higher vibration is hundreds of years, then they (now, what Ra calls part of the "new breed") probably have only partial use of the abilities afforded to that higher vibration.

I think from that perspective, the main difference would be whether we are forced into "death" from some outside mechanic of harvest, or whether we harvested upon natural death.

[zenmaster]

I quite understand what you're saying. But I always imagined the "instant" harvest picture painted by Unity (and others) to be an inescapable event in which none would question the actual existence and passing of such event.

Death is an inescapable event which none would question the actual existence and passing of such an event.

"Gradual" being described as a seamless change, perhaps only barely noticeable or not at all, to the degree where when the event is complete, there is no difference from one day to the next, yet a noticeable difference in a larger amount of time.

I don't understand either of these "options". If, when one dies during harvest, they qualify for the next vibration, they get a new core vibration. If the transition to the higher vibration is hundreds of years, then they (now, what Ra calls part of the "new breed") probably have only partial use of the abilities afforded to that higher vibration.

I think from that perspective, the main difference would be whether we are forced into "death" from some outside mechanic of harvest, or whether we harvested upon natural death.

OK, yes this has been brought up numerous times. The latter would be more parsimonious due to the need to continue the propagation of these genetic vessels for our consciousness.

In my view, the "new breed" (dual-activated), mentioned by Ra, is much more of an upcoming thing as far as being a more overt presence.

---

People, stop theorizing stuff. Really. Be here in the now and help it. We need to be of service & value to the process. Gaia and the collective urgently need help from within!

Now you're being selectively hypocritical. Take a look at all your posts in the Elenin thread.

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...4#pid52274

[native]

OK, yes this has been brought up numerous times. The latter would be more parsimonious due to the need to continue the propagation of these genetic vessels for our consciousness.

In my view, the "new breed" (dual-activated), mentioned by Ra, is much more of an upcoming thing as far as being a more overt presence.

Yes, and there are various reasons for wanting to preserve continuity, mainly for all opportunities of service. The catalyst is immense and full of experience.

I noticed this earlier today, Ra is speaking of the transition.. ""It is misleading to speak of gains and losses when dealing with the subject of the cycle’s ending and the green-ray cycle beginning upon your sphere. It is to be kept in the forefront of the faculties of intelligence that there is one creation in which there is no loss. There are progressive cycles for experiential use by entities. We may now address your query."

Ra is alluding to the fact that there is continuity, no instant death, and plenty of catalyst available that will be put to use.

[unity100]

you have gone at length of almost invalidating entirety of Ra material due to that approach before, and now you are going the way of abstracting and mystifying everything to sublime concepts in order to be able to abstract harvest event also.

So then, how long should we expect this reality to last? When will it end? Let's get this on record. In 5 years we can discuss this.

elaborate the reality you are speaking of and i will reply.

There is no difference between "instant" and "gradual" if "instant" is indefinitely projected into the future. It's perpetual incipience of the "event" unfolding according to hyper-intuitive notions of transcendence or pareidolia of current events matching expectations of awakening-to-higher-vibrational behavior. Framing, which by now, over 30 years, is becoming trite and shallow.

in short, you are basically saying that whole Ra material is just intellectual 'fluff' that can be relegated to the psychological subconscious with no reliability or real-world impact.

And earlier, you said I didn't trust the Ra Material... As if your interpretation was "the" interpretation, somehow? Anyway, the so-called "real-world" impact is as it is. It's almost as if you think you're somehow doing a valuable service by insisting on the importance of completely transient events. As if the whole of Ra Material was being reduced to the act of foretelling and prophecy and not about learning.

this case is not a matter of interpretation or belief. you are basically relegating everything told in the material to a subconscious/abstract/non-impacting status in regard to physical manifestation on this planet.

there is endless amount of information that is directly descriptive of existing situations, conditions, and events in that material, regarding this planet. this range from pyramids, to psychotronic weapons, to ex. u.s. presidents.

It's not that difficult. Whatever one perceives important is relevant, others things not. If it finally takes physically-fashioned catalyst to SEE something happen, then something definitely must have been ignored along the way.

i specifically emphasized SEE, so that you wouldnt fall into 'perception' pit again. however, you still did.

the things that i mention in regard to seeing, are not things that people can just ignore or not perceive or perceive in the fashion they please. im not talking about events happening in that country, or this country, or change of attitude in people, this or that. im talking about real phenomenon.

Out of pure curiosity, what would one consider a safe amount of time before either re-interpreting the Ra material or disowning it completely if we see nothing noticeable happen as far as "harvest" goes, for the "instant" school of thought? The question is hypothetical, and while I know some don't even consider the possibility, I would like to understand that perspective.

entities who are on a level that could be aware of the harvest consciously would not need to do anything about it - what will be necessary for them would probably be what to do with their new situation/state and it brings. we could see some of them leave. either to go away because they are from higher densities or to reincarnate into 3-4d bodies here. it is possible that we may see some of those who are in wanderer status leave, even if they are not harvestable/harvested, or are not in a position to be aware of any process.

But as has been pointed out frequently, "all are harvested regardless of progress." Taking the standpoint that harvest is an inescapable event that will have noticeable effect on everyone's lives (even in space/time), at what point is the material to be re-interpreted or abandoned? Say we get to the end of 2012 and there are no noticeable spiritual changes and life seems to be the same as it has always been. How much longer will you (any firm believer in an instant and noticeable harvest) wait for an event?

that depends on how the harvest will impact entities that are not harvestable, or of lower vibrations. the realization, awareness, following of the events and the material and their rejection would follow a vibratory ladder :

3-4d transitory entities were already living in a reality that overlapped the accustomed reality of this society and surpassing it, ranging from paranormal phenomenon to their bodily conditions, emotions, their strength of character/will and many other traits.

wanderers, it is rather hard to determine their situation. what would determine their situation would be the vibration they were able to vibrate in probably. a wanderer who got mixed and lost in the 3d society, may be affected as a planetary entity and its experience would probably be same with them. for wanderers who had successfully raised their vibration, the impact on them would be in accordance with their vibration levels. these group of entities, i presume, will get easily affected by paranormal phenomenon during harvest and the times leading up to and following it. at this point, for them, anything goes.

for entities who are harvestable, if an intelligent infinity contact happens, this would be something that would totally eclipse everything in their life. they may choose to suppress what they lived and try to oblige with the existing habits of society. but, from experience i can tell you that this is very, very hard, and those who do it - i can tell from one person i know who did it - get into very, very dysfunctional and hard position for a human being. i dont think these entities would need to be told anything happened either. intelligent infinity contact has an impact like a truck.

if, harvestable entities do not necessarily make contact with intelligent infinity, but, instead harvesters deciding that the entity is harvestable can suffice - and if it is even possible in the first place -, then the entity may not feel anything in conscious life. but, it is very highly likely that entity would feel something quite profound and considerable in waking life, due to events that transpired in time/space in harvest. i have to say that i find this rather unlikely since the harvest seems to necessitate intelligent infinity contact. cant be certain though.

for entities who are near harvestable, they may experience various strong situations, fluctuations and whatnot, this can have a huge impact on their waking life. i think this crowd will be rather considerably affected due to being close to harvestable, but on the border. these may or may not become aware that something is happening.

for entites nowhere near harvest, there will probably be various strong emotions or character changes or things the entity may or may not notice, or others may notice.

..............

so, the entities that are lower in the vibration ladder above, would readily and speedily ignore/reject/disown anything faster than the ones higher in the ladder. actually, many already do.

however one thing complicates this situation and introduces a lot of entropy - the affinity of any given mind/body/spirit complex as they manifest in this society, for things that are of paranormal or spiritual nature.

so, even a 3d nonharvestable entity may experience a lot of paranormal/spiritual things that could be quite considerable in impact if the entity's particular mind/body/spirit complex as it lives in this incarnation and time has an affinity or an opening through the veil.

for entities who are 3-4d, i expect this to be rather a constant possibility.

for wanderers who had been able to raise their vibrations, actually anything goes. a wanderer with lower vibrations or a wanderer who got mixed up with the planetary society, can also be drastically affected due to its past and its spiritual biases/sensitivities.

however still, being consciously higher in vibratory ladder, would provide the means to consciously follow and perceive the events in an aware fashion. someone who is lower on the vibratory ladder due to any reason at that point in time, may not be able to make heads or tails of the events or any paranormal experience it goes through, due to the reduced perception/awareness that accompanies lower vibrations.

I don't understand either of these "options". If, when one dies during harvest, they qualify for the next vibration, they get a new core vibration. If the transition to the higher vibration is hundreds of years, then they (now, what Ra calls part of the "new breed") probably have only partial use of the abilities afforded to that higher vibration.

thats what you think, because apparently you have forgotten the information about harvest and transition.

vibrations are already here. its truecolor green.

the transition that is spoken about, is the transition to a 4d society, with 4d social and vibratory structure, inhabited by 4d bodies that evolved through time. it does not relate to any event during harvest, harvesters, or vibrations. it pertains to ADAPTING to those vibrations, as a society. harvest is not a transitory event - it is an event that starts the transition for 4d society. thats a whole another topic in itself, with many questions.

[loop]

some of us are here to learn and see things while living. are you aware how many more planets are going through this harvest event as of now, and how many more will go through it until this octave completes ?

Now you're being selectively hypocritical. Take a look at all your posts in the Elenin thread.

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...4#pid52274

I really have no idea how many other planets and worlds will pass through the Harvest process. And I am also one of those who are here to learn and experience the shift.
EDIT: And i really have no idea how the harvest process works. I don't have access to knowledge beyond the veil, so I consciously only know what I've learned through the past 32 years of earth live.

What I mean with my statement is that since Oct 28, I'm experiencing much deeper levels of meditation and I really feel that the Earth and the collective need the aware ones to participate in the healing and the cleanup more than ever.

I am saying that it's important that we will be more active with our meditation practices in the period Oct 28 - Nov 11. What will be after this date is yet to be seen.

BTW, I've changed my username from knaumov -> loop, which is my nickname of choice for the last 12-13 years.

[Oceania]

i plan on doing more fasting and meditating soon.

[native]

elaborate the reality you are speaking of and i will reply.

I'm with you that there will be shifts in consciousness, changes in abilities, phenomenon, calls to service etc., but it will be gradual. We have lately been in a time of radical social change (there is congruency), but if in 5 years, say there is nothing other than steps towards transparency in politics and equality movements taking shape, what then? According to you, the harvest has to at least happen over a very short period of time. There is no room for 5, 10, or 15 year interpretations and modifications.

But more importantly, probably one of the most objective questions people can ask themselves, is how Ra can come and speak of prophecy? Describing the harvest as an end date scenario is a violation of free will. If it really was an "event" in the short-term, they would refuse to comment. Please explain how Ra, according to your interpretation, is allowed to violate free will.

[3DMonkey]

I understand, Icaro.

I have a take on "free will". How is it EVER possible to violate free will? It is a scapegoat, IMO. If Ra told me, "you will die on June 7, 2033", how is it a violation of free will? I still have freedom to direct my will to interpret that massage any way I choose.

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It's not any different that telling me I must polarize a certain amount to embody a different density. This information could sway me to trip on my path I was already on.

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To me, it's just another indication that the material originated in the mind complex because it obviously reflects our mind's process.

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Which furthe indicates, IMO, that they didn't predict anything.

[Edinburgh]

Out of pure curiosity, what would one consider a safe amount of time before either re-interpreting the Ra material or disowning it completely if we see nothing noticeable happen as far as "harvest" goes, for the "instant" school of thought? The question is hypothetical, and while I know some don't even consider the possibility, I would like to understand that perspective.

I think about 'now' is the right time to re-interpret the material. However, it may be January 2013 before we can totally put that school to rest. In the meantime, keep positive, no matter what happens.