The mysterious nature of time

[3DMonkey]

LOL. "the grass is greener on the other side". Almost always true when describing people's views.

[Confused]

You have my full permission and assistance

I am so glad to have the aid of the High Priestess!

[Confused]

19
Throw away holiness and wisdom,
and people will be a hundred times happier.
Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.
Throw away industry and profit,
and there won’t be any thieves.
If these three aren’t enough,
just stay at the center of the circle
and let all things take their course.

source: http://www.ai.rug.nl/~ronald/zinvol/tao.pdf

[Confused]

[Confused]

[Confused]

[Confused]

20
Stop thinking, and end your problems.
What difference between yes and no?
What difference between success and failure?
Must you value what others value,
avoid what others avoid?
How ridiculous!
Other people are excited,
as though they were at a parade.
I alone don’t care,
I alone am expressionless,
like an infant before it can smile.
Other people have what they need;
I alone possess nothing.
I alone drift about,
like someone without a home.
I am like an idiot, my mind is so empty.
Other people are bright;
I alone am dark.
Other people are sharper;
I alone am dull.
Other people have a purpose;
I alone don’t know.
I drift like a wave on the ocean,
I blow as aimless as the wind.
I am different from ordinary people.
I drink from the Great Mother’s breasts.

Source: http://www.ai.rug.nl/~ronald/zinvol/tao.pdf

[Confused]

21
The Master keeps her mind
always at one with the Tao;
that is what gives her radiance.
The Tao is ungraspable.
How can her mind be at one with it?
Because she doesn’t cling to ideas.
The Tao is dark and unfathomable.
How can it make her radiant?
Because she lets it.
Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see.

Source: http://www.ai.rug.nl/~ronald/zinvol/tao.pdf

[3DMonkey]

You'd think the Tao wouldn't need so many words to describe the Tao. Seems a bit un-Tao-y to me. You smell something fishy?

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Dr. Dyer, to me: the guy that clogs up PBS during pledge drives, and sounds just like a church dude. *click*

[Confused]

You'd think the Tao wouldn't need so many words to describe the Tao. Seems a bit un-Tao-y to me. You smell something fishy?

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Dr. Dyer, to me: the guy that clogs up PBS during pledge drives, and sounds just like a church dude. *click*

I don't know, 3. I just don't know. Though all this talk about the Tao feels good at the chakras ranging from the green to the indigo, they are futile, if the first three chakras are not balanced and in harmony (all my opinion).

It is very often easy to forget that the body is also part of what is called the 'Self', and it is the mechanism by which evolution is permitted (my interpretation of the LOO). The power of the body (or less denseness) is what primarily necessitates the choice in 3D, in my opinion.

[3DMonkey]

I agree with you.

What about what I said made you say that?

[Confused]

I thought about your statement for a while. Then I reflected on the teachings of the Tao Te Ching to remain at the centre. When I contemplated as to why I am not able to remain at the centre, it perfectly dawned on me that it is because I need to work with the rest of the world to preserve the survival of my body (eating, working, avoiding pain, etc), have a healthy personal identity and be able to work in group dynamics. These correlate from the Red-Yellow. Without the body, these activities are redundant. If no body, then no feeding. If no feeding, then no working and the attendant ego games and humiliations. I will not be attached to my spouse and children, and so on. I am sure you are catching my drift there.

[3DMonkey]

I was just trying to be funny.

But yeah, that's what the Tao is saying. Don't try, but don't get mad at the consequences... that is, if you want to be Tao. It's almost like spiritual suicide, no?

[Confused]

I was just trying to be funny.

But yeah, that's what the Tao is saying. Don't try, but don't get mad at the consequences... that is, if you want to be Tao. It's almost like spiritual suicide, no?

From 52.2 To the disciplined entity, all things are open and free. The discipline which opens the universes opens also the gateways to evolution. The difference is that of choosing either to hitchhike to a place where beauty may be seen or to walk, step by step, independent and free in this independence to praise the strength to walk and the opportunity for the awareness of beauty.

The hitchhiker, instead, is distracted by conversation and the vagaries of the road and, dependent upon the whims of others, is concerned to make the appointment in time. The hitchhiker sees the same beauty but has not prepared itself for the establishment, in the roots of mind, of the experience.

---

[Confused]

[3DMonkey]

They begin by saying it can't be named. They should stop right there. After that, we get a long list of names. That's not Tao

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Yet, evidently, that is Tao. Naming something that can't be named. That's naturally not energy spent towards accepting whatever may come. They lost the moment they spoke. It suggests we do something that its existence does not do.

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The Tao could be placed in the "slingshot" category.

[Confused]

There is no doubt in my mind that we need to reintegrate with the wisdom of the body, which in turn is a creature of the mind (according to Ra). The Tao is a concept beyond understanding for me now. It may never be understood. May be that is where humility comes into play. At times, it does seem OK to think of the ONE as a puppeteer.

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[Confused]

22
If you want to become whole,
let yourself be partial.
If you want to become straight,
let yourself be crooked.
If you want to become full,
let yourself be empty.
If you want to be reborn,
let yourself die.
If you want to be given everything,
give everything up.
The Master, by residing in the Tao,
sets an example for all beings.
Because he doesn’t display himself,
people can see his light.
Because he has nothing to prove,
people can trust his words.
Because he doesn’t know who he is,
people recognize themselves in him.
Because he has no goal in mind,
everything he does succeeds.
When the ancient Masters said,
”If you want to be given everything,
give everything up,”
they weren’t using empty phrases.
Only in being lived by the Tao can you be truly yourself.

Source: http://www.ai.rug.nl/~ronald/zinvol/tao.pdf

[3DMonkey]

If you want to be reborn,
let yourself die.

Because he has no goal in mind,
everything he does succeeds.


That sums it up for me. I like it, but it is about allowing yourself to be steamrolled by life and trying to find joy in it. It worked for Forest Gump. If we could only return to the ignorance of an infant ("I alone am expressionless, like an infant before it can smile."), life would be wonderful bliss. I think a lobotomy is the only effective way to achieve that.

[Confused]

Lobotomy

[native]

Yet, evidently, that is Tao. Naming something that can't be named. That's naturally not energy spent towards accepting whatever may come. They lost the moment they spoke. It suggests we do something that its existence does not do.

I'm not surprised to see your eternal battle with words carrying over to the Tao! If there's going to be any kind of discussion or shared learning towards something experienced, insights have to be expressed in some manner. Your spirit is aligned with Robert Anton Wilson and his displeasure with words.

[3DMonkey]

Haha. Yeah, maybe

I don't want to abolish or even transform our use of words. It is seems to me that I am not fixated on words but on the mind.

My reasoning is appears to me not to point at words but of how the spiritual teaching is appears to me to be in contradiction to itself. More so that the discoveries are always made with the mind and therefore follows the pattern of the mind and can never be a concept outside of the mind because it follows a pattern of the mind even when describing the mind, the mind is used to do so, and so we get just another picture of what the mind is as we view it with our mind which follows the same pattern that painted the picture and the pattern is to re-create the picture and the mind with the mind, never leaving the mind out of the picture. This is why it is appears to be infinite, IMO.

[Confused]

23
Express yourself completely,
then keep quiet.
Be like the forces of nature:
when it blows, there is only wind;
when it rains, there is only rain;
when the clouds pass, the sun shines through.
If you open yourself to the Tao,
you are at one with the Tao
and you can embody it completely.
If you open yourself to insight,
you are at one with insight
and you can use it completely.
If you open yourself to loss,
you are at one with loss
and you can accept it completely.
Open yourself to the Tao,
then trust your natural responses;
and everything will fall into place.

Source: http://www.ai.rug.nl/~ronald/zinvol/tao.pdf

[3DMonkey]

If anyone wonders what my voice sounds like, this is very very close.

[Confused]

I thought it was the voice of a lady :p

[3DMonkey]

Even funnier

[native]

Haha. Yeah, maybe

I don't want to abolish or even transform our use of words. It is seems to me that I am not fixated on words but on the mind.

My reasoning is appears to me not to point at words but of how the spiritual teaching is appears to me to be in contradiction to itself. More so that the discoveries are always made with the mind and therefore follows the pattern of the mind and can never be a concept outside of the mind because it follows a pattern of the mind even when describing the mind, the mind is used to do so, and so we get just another picture of what the mind is as we view it with our mind which follows the same pattern that painted the picture and the pattern is to re-create the picture and the mind with the mind, never leaving the mind out of the picture. This is why it is appears to be infinite, IMO.

Well your mind certainly is one of a kind!

I recently picked up The Origins and History of Consciousness by Erich Neumann, and I came across this insightful thought in the first few pages.."The form of representation peculiar to the unconscious is not that of the conscious mind. It neither attempts nor is able to seize hold of and define its objects in a series of discursive explanations, and reduce them to clarity by logical analysis. The way of the unconscious is different. Symbols gather round the thing to be explained, understood, interpreted. The act of becoming conscious consists in the concentric grouping of symbols around the object, all circumscribing and describing the unknown from many sides. Each symbol lays bare another essential side of the object to be grasped, points to another facet of meaning. Only the canon of these symbols congregating about the center in question, the coherent symbol group, can lead to an understanding of what the symbols point to and of what they are trying to express."

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If anyone wonders what my voice sounds like, this is very very close.

Ha! He sounds like quite a happy fellow. Reminds me of like David Sedaris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=161Fyi6fid0

[Confused]

Sometimes, the greatest symbol is laughter! The Tao is laughter for me sometimes, as it writhes in laughter at my clumsiness in living.

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[native]

Yes! It all comes down to laughter..the absurdity of it all.

[Confused]

24
He who stands on tiptoe
doesn’t stand firm.
He who rushes ahead
doesn’t go far.
He who tries to shine
dims his own light.
He who defines himself
can’t know who he really is.
He who has power over others
can’t empower himself.
He who clings to his work
will create nothing that endures.
If you want to accord with the Tao,
just do your job, then let go.

Source: http://www.ai.rug.nl/~ronald/zinvol/tao.pdf