Why Steve Jobs died

[Namaste]

No one ever dies alone :¬)

I would guess he's seeing his spirit guides, they come to comfort in the final moments.

I think it is possible to become lost for a period. This might be described as falling off the steps.

Seeing his real family appear may not have been the same entities as specialty guides.

People can become very lost, and feel very isolated, yet they are never actually alone. Life guides never leave. Hearing/feeling them is another matter of course :¬)

Indeed, a multitude of entities can appear. Friends (nurses) often comment about someone close to passing asking them "Who is that lovely lady in white who visits me after you?".

[Monica]

misinformation spread amongst michael jackson fans do not have the power to change public perspective and effect changes to the degree people are free on their information technology devices and on the internet.

the misinformation and cult propaganda around steve jobs, does. it is possibly another reason why the mainstream media is so very much propagating it - his trends, fit well with the desires of the established corporations' control schemes. and in a 'hip and trendy fashion' too.

Ah, so you consider misinfo about Jobs actually dangerous?

[unity100]

misinformation spread amongst michael jackson fans do not have the power to change public perspective and effect changes to the degree people are free on their information technology devices and on the internet.

the misinformation and cult propaganda around steve jobs, does. it is possibly another reason why the mainstream media is so very much propagating it - his trends, fit well with the desires of the established corporations' control schemes. and in a 'hip and trendy fashion' too.

Ah, so you consider misinfo about Jobs actually dangerous?

quite dangerous.

mass media's galvanizing apple has allowed other corporations to do what they did, because it became acceptable to engage in restrictive and possessive, anti-liberty practices like apple due to the almost complete immunity that galvanizing provided for apple.

the more they galvanize apple and preach jobs, the more acceptable what he did will become to public, and other companies who were wanting to do the same will find courage to do the same. they were already pushing for more control on people, but were meeting resistance. the way apple did and got away, provides a totally acceptable means to do it so far. and private too.

[Oceania]

the moment they manifest green ray, they graduate.

Can you please define manifest green ray?

and there is no relevance in between service to others, and faking reactions.

I agree. However, being considerate of others, and choosing words that express respect while yet being honest, isn't faking.

"Today we celebrate Dennis Ritchie Day, an idea proposed by Tim O'Reilly. Ritchie, who died earlier this month, made contributions to computing that are so deeply woven into the fabric that they impact us all. We now have to remark on the elephant in the room. If Dennis Ritchie hadn't died just after Steve Jobs, there would probably have been no suggestion of a day to mark his achievements. We have to admit that it is largely a response to the perhaps over-reaction to Steve Jobs which highlighted the inequality in the public recognition of the people who really make their world work."

It's true that there have been many other contributors to the computer industry that haven't gotten nearly as much recognition. The media is very fickle and basically decides who gets recognition, based on what makes good news.

It's a lot like the music industry. I remember when Michael Jackson died. Based on all the accolades, you'd think he was the very first musical artist to make any good songs at all! Being a music connoisseur who likes a lot of music from obscure musicians who never made the pop charts, I could easily think, "yeah but xyz artist did that too, way before Michael Jackson, but never got recognition for it just because the timing wasn't right so he never made the pop charts. I can think of a lot of other musical artists who deserve recognition way more than Michael Jackson."

And I did think that very thing. But I didn't bother telling the Michael Jackson fans, at least not right after he died. It wouldn't have mattered to them, and they didn't want to hear it when they were in the midst of grieving over someone they loved and admired.

yeah, i agree, let people grieve. everyone forgets this little fact. not everyone wants to be famous. not everyone wants to be grieved by strangers when they die. Steve took on the job of being a face for his company. a public being. if it was me, i wouldn't want that. and i wouldn't give a s*** if "everyone" remembered me when i died. i'd care if the people that mattered to me did. and i'm sure that was true of Steve but he didn't mind being the public face. public faces touch more people so of course it's bigger news. more people are gonna grieve. what really pisses me off is how people get all nasty and angry at people grieving Steve and start listing his faults or how others deserve the credit more. as if anyofthat matters. he's dead, people who feel a connection to him grieve. and it's really selfish and mean to b**** about something petty to people who grieve because of your distorted views of what is sooo frickin important, like fame and posthumous recognition. that doesn't matter to anyone who cared about Steve as a person. like his family. or people that just liked him. and there's these mean things about him floating and i hope his family doesn't see. like there was this facebook pic that was about how african victims are more deserving of grieving. as if grieving Steve takes away from african people. what a load of crap. i'm so tired of this self righteous bullshit everyone's on. and i realize i'm judging people for judging. the judgement never ends.

[Monica]

yeah, i agree, let people grieve. everyone forgets this little fact. not everyone wants to be famous. not everyone wants to be grieved by strangers when they die. Steve took on the job of being a face for his company. a public being. if it was me, i wouldn't want that. and i wouldn't give a $hit if "everyone" remembered me when i died. i'd care if the people that mattered to me did. and i'm sure that was true of Steve but he didn't mind being the public face. public faces touch more people so of course it's bigger news. more people are gonna grieve. what really pisses me off is how people get all nasty and angry at people grieving Steve and start listing his faults or how others deserve the credit more. as if anyofthat matters. he's dead, people who feel a connection to him grieve. and it's really selfish and mean to b!tch about something petty to people who grieve because of your distorted views of what is sooo frickin important, like fame and posthumous recognition. that doesn't matter to anyone who cared about Steve as a person. like his family. or people that just liked him. and there's these mean things about him floating and i hope his family doesn't see. like there was this facebook pic that was about how african victims are more deserving of grieving. as if grieving Steve takes away from african people. what a load of crap. i'm so tired of this self righteous bullshit everyone's on. and i realize i'm judging people for judging. the judgement never ends.

I understand. I felt that way after John Lennon was killed. I cried buckets over John Lennon. I didn't even know him but I felt absolutely devastated at his death! Especially because it was so senseless, so needless, so violent. Lennon represented so much to me: peace, truth, rebellion against corruption, etc. in addition to the spawning of the greatest era of rock music. John Lennon inspired a generation!

But after he was brutally and senselessly murdered, all the gossip started, about how he wasn't a good dad to his oldest son, blah blah blah. All of which just showed that he wasn't perfect.

A person doesn't have to be perfect to inspire others.

Apparently, Steve Jobs wasn't perfect either. And there is indeed some truth in what unity100 says. I was in IT for 18 years and I remember when the pc hit mainstream homes, and it was indeed the IBM pc, not the Apple. So yes, those are good points too. But none of that matters to those whose lives he touched. Just like whether or not John Lennon was a good dad or not, won't lesson my respect for him regarding what he did accomplish, or my grief at having lost him.

Having said that, I didn't interpret that FB cartoon as mean at all, or in any way directed negatively towards Steve Jobs. Rather, it seemed to just be making the point that each life is valuable, not just the famous ones. I don't think it intended to say not to grieve for Steve; it was just saying, wake up and grieve for these others as well.

---

the source you are reading, directly tells the questioner that he is incorrect, bluntly answers 'no' to various questions, and even at times directly says that a question or a formulated proposition is unintelligible.

why arent you accusing or criticizing them for their lack of compassion and bluntness ?

Because Ra was in the position of providing information, of which Ra was an authoritative source.

Even then, Ra acknowledged that they learned as well as taught, and that we were advised to use our own discernment.

Still, Ra was the teacher, the provider of answers, while Don was the student, the questioner.

In an online discussion forum, none among us is in the position that Ra was in. None among us is the undisputed teacher. None of us are 'experts' in the subject we are discussing. We are all students.

[Oceania]

you mean the pic with apple and the african continent? it wasn't just it but what people said. and i never claimed Steve was perfect. but my point was he made a unique and great contribution. Unity may disagree.

[Monica]

you mean the pic with apple and the african continent? it wasn't just it but what people said.

I'm not sure, but that's probably the same one. I didn't read any commentary on it that I remember. I just remember thinking that it was making the point that each life was precious.

and i never claimed Steve was perfect.

I know you didn't.

I gave the example of John Lennon because he wasn't perfect either, but man, I sure grieved over his death!

but my point was he made a unique and great contribution. Unity may disagree.

I actually think the ability to inspire others is more important than the details, in some cases anyway. If Steve Jobs inspired you, that's all that matters. I wouldn't trade that inspiration for mere facts.

No sarcasm here. I'm absolutely serious.

[Oceania]

i know you're not sarcastic Monica. and i agree.

so you were alive when he died? i think i was born afterwards. and when River Phoenix died i wasn't his fan yet. so it's weird when you know someone's dead and then start liking them, it's not the same as learning they're dead while liking them. i still grieved for River Phoenix tho, somehow, i still do. he was such a remarkable person. and Lennon was too. but mostly i feel sad for Yoko there. usually people that die young or are very inspiring have flaws. it almost comes with the territory but what stands out is that they're not afraid to live. or to be an example, for better or not so better. they're bright souls to me no matter what anyone says. because they shine with all their might.

[Monica]

so you were alive when he died?

Yes, I was 20 in 1980. A sad sad day it was.

i think i was born afterwards. and when River Phoenix died i wasn't his fan yet. so it's weird when you know someone's dead and then start liking them, it's not the same as learning they're dead while liking them. i still grieved for River Phoenix tho, somehow, i still do. he was such a remarkable person. and Lennon was too. but mostly i feel sad for Yoko there.

Oh I feel sooo sad for Yoko! They were such soul mates. And to actually see it happen...how horrible!

usually people that die young or are very inspiring have flaws. it almost comes with the territory but what stands out is that they're not afraid to live. or to be an example, for better or not so better. they're bright souls to me no matter what anyone says. because they shine with all their might.

Yes, exactly!

[Lavazza]

What do you guys think?

Rest in peace, Steve. :idea:

I think there is something to this train of thought for sure. In the last few weeks I've read a lot of positive and negative articles related to Jobs and it's fair to say he was to some degree controlling, and to some degree unable to release issues with anger- the Android quote is the most tell tale there.

However, it's hard to get a completely accurate picture of a person from the news without knowing him, well, personally.

Whatever the nature of his being, I have to say I've a lot of respect for his aesthetics, vision, and in general his can-do attitude. When he came back to Apple it was nearly bankrupt, and we all know the story from there.

There's also this video- a commencement speech he gave at Stanford (I think) in 2005. Sorry if it's already been posted- I didn't read all the replies here before posting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA

Love,
Eric

[Meerie]

Yes.... we still don't know why Steve Jobs died
RIP Stevie.

[Oceania]

did you guys see the iThing about Steve Jobs?

[Monica]

Moderator Note: This thread got way off-topic so it has been split. Please refer to
Life on Planet Earth > Caring/Compassion/Sensitivity/Tact vs Lying/Faking

[Meerie]

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[turtledude23]

The first personal computer and mouse was designed by a team of researchers at Stanford Research Institute led by Doug Englebart in 1969. Researchers at Xerox PARC built upon that research and created a personal computer with a GUI (not text-based) in 1973 that could have been mass produced (that's also where ethernet cables and early internet protocols were developed later on). Steve Wozniak built a simple text-based personal computer using widely available parts in his spare time (Apple I) in 1976 and Steve Jobs marketed an improved version of it (Apple II) in 1977. IBM created a cheaper personal computer (also text based) intended for business use in 1981, and closed off their hardware in the style unity was referring to. Compaq hired hackers to reverse engineer the IBM PC in 1982 and as a result we got even cheaper PCs which didn't have to be restricted to the whims of IBM. This is the point when PCs really started taking off, because they were cheap and because programmers who have nothing to do with Apple, IBM or Microsoft developed "killer apps" for these platforms.

Right now there are amazing technologies and potential technologies available and working in the labs of research departments at universities, technologies which may not enter the mass market for many years, or perhaps may never enter the market at all. Why do people buy certain products? Sometimes because they need it (food, soap, clothes, etc.), sometimes because it makes their life easier or more enjoyable (cell phones, movies, etc.), sometimes to look cool or fit in (luxury products). Marketing is also a factor, if someone tells their employees to take a bunch of technologies other people invented and package them in a cool way, runs a large marketing campaign, and alot of people buy that product then that person has succeeded as an entrepreneur, but to have a cult of personality developed around them makes me suspicious.

Watch Pirates of Silicon Valley, Steve Jobs was a very controlling person, he may have talked the talk about spiritual things, but so did/does every leader of a cult (see Jim Jones), and in some sense most politicians and business leaders do the same thing: say one thing in public that sounds nice, and do something else in private. Its tempting to think that there was some visionary, spiritual business leader who's personal innovations changed the world, we like blaming one person for everything that's good or bad in the world, and our mass media likes keeping that idea going, but life is far from the simple. Technologies which have far larger impacts on our lives every single moment of every day go unnoticed, their inventors die poor and no one knows their names outside a small circle of nerds. If the general public knows someones name it's very rarely because they did anything to deserve that publicity, the majority of the time its because they seek that publicity. The nature of mass media and consumer trends does not reward good deeds.

Here's what Steve Jobs actually did: he marketed someone else's creation which, of which there had already been at least 2 far higher quality equivalents many years earlier; he told his employees to add a GUI which he saw on someone else's invention (which also wasn't the first to have it) to his companies products as his sales were going downhill; he got fired then came back in 1997; he told his employees to make an obscure operating system (already existed) look nicer, but still barely anyone was buying it; he told his employees to make an mp3 player (already existed) which looked cool and forced it to have to connect to his music store and marketed it very successfully, in turn the obscure operating system gained some popularity; he told his employees to make a smartphone (already existed) that looked cool and controlled what kind of applications can be developed for that phone because applications can only be distributed through one channel and that channel was completely under his companies control, so for instance porn viewing applications weren't allowed on any iPhones, in turn the obscure operating system and overpriced PCs forcibly attached to it also gained popularity.

He was good at marketing and good at making money for his company and shareholders, good for him. He was also very controlling both in terms of human beings (yelled at his employees, demoralized them, forced them to compete against each other) and other peoples creations (restricting which apps can be distributed on iPhones and now Macs after the Lion update). He made money by monopolizing markets and charging way more than his competitors. I was not upset when he died, and the fact that so many people will passionately defend someone (who they've never met) who's greatest accomplishment was making phones prettier as the century's greatest innovator while not knowing the names of the people who invented: the first personal computer, ARPAnet or the microprocessor - all of which had exponentially more impact on each of our lives, and the whole world, than the sum total of every Apple product ever created, shows how much our opinions are shaped by the media, how easy it is to lose sight of the big picture, and that the average person doesn't really care how a product reaches them but just that its there and, perhaps, that they deserve it.

The media is interested in "cool" things, fads, trends, it has an inherent bias to short term outlooks and has no desire to give a big picture or long term point of view. Our opinions and outlook on life are all influenced by mainstream media without us realizing it. And I'm not saying there's any conscious or deliberate conspiracy behind this phenomenon, its a totally natural outcome when the spreading of information is in the hands of organizations interested primarily in making profit.

[Oceania]

Pirates of Silicon Valley is one of my fave movies. that doesn't change how i feel about Steve indeed it gave me insight into him.

and he was the guy who put it all together. he gave us iStuff. he put art and hard work into everything. he was a slavedriver. he pushed his people to work so hard they created awesome things. he loved what he did. he gave a great contribution, being a unfier is no less great than building something.

[UnifyingFactor]

I was never really on the Apple bandwagon because I always appreciated an open system rather than a pretty looking closed system. I beleive in sharing, ala LOO. I've noticed many apple fans had an elitist mindset.

After reading Jobs' biography I can say he seemed like a very confused entity. He was quite damaged and insecure. He pursued zen and was against materialism, yet he was obsessed with making pretty material gadgets. He was extremely manipulative and ruthless. He became successful by stealing many ideas from others and then became outrageously angry and vengeful when he felt others stole from him. As his quote "Good artists copy, great artists steal" he took credit for all the great ideas from the talented people that worked for him.

Even though he followed Zen he was never able to achieve inner peace. He was obsessed with fasts and weird diets as a control factor over his body. He'd been fighting different forms of cancer for almost 10 years most likely as severe catalyst but he just didn't seem to get it.

All in all he was fairly STS, but bless him for he was/is a manifestation of the infinite creator.

His gadgets while nice looking and pleasant to use, have not really added anything to polarization or spirituality. All this technology just distracts us and keeps people asleep. Even though I can say my life has been blessed by the internet which I was able to access on a 486 back in 1995. No iAnything required.

I think humanity would have been better off spiritualy if we still lived on farms and small towns ala 150 years ago. Although this is all just my opinion and mine alone

+ :idea:

[3DMonkey]

I think humanity would have been better off spiritualy if we still lived on farms and small towns ala 150 years ago. Although this is all just my opinion and mine alone

I agree. Except I like tv and internet. Of course, I didn't like internet until I bought a Mac

[UnifyingFactor]

I think humanity would have been better off spiritualy if we still lived on farms and small towns ala 150 years ago. Although this is all just my opinion and mine alone

I agree. Except I like tv and internet. Of course, I didn't like internet until I bought a Mac

haha ya because macs make that internet browser window come alive with sprinkles and unicorns right? I think that's what Jobs meant when he kept calling it magical. He put acid in every box

I like the internet too, but this summer I lived on an Ashram/Organic Farm for 3 months and I realized that I had no use for the internet anymore. That is until I came back to Toronto...

+ :idea:

[Oceania]

why is this bash Steve jobs thread? he was a human being. so what? was he supposed to be a saint? people love JFK and he was no saint. lots of our heroes were human. that'spart of the charm. as for materialistic gadgets, it wasn't that, he saw beauty in things, art. just cuz you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. he gave us quality that we actually can use. not gadgets. tools. he gave us tools. look at the iPad. that's the new direction. and he saw it years ago. he was a visionary. and NOT STS. who are you to decide what he was? jeeze. talk about high horses.

[UnifyingFactor]

why is this bash Steve jobs thread? he was a human being. so what? was he supposed to be a saint? people love JFK and he was no saint. lots of our heroes were human. that'spart of the charm. as for materialistic gadgets, it wasn't that, he saw beauty in things, art. just cuz you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. he gave us quality that we actually can use. not gadgets. tools. he gave us tools. look at the iPad. that's the new direction. and he saw it years ago. he was a visionary. and NOT STS. who are you to decide what he was? jeeze. talk about high horses.

You're right I don't know. That's why I prefaced it by writing that these are my observations after reading his biography, as in this is what it seems like... I have no way of knowing anything about him really.

Although you seem to be having a defensive reaction to an apparent accusation of an entity being STS. Are you implying there is something wrong with being STS? Why does this offend you?

I can see the beauty in his creations, but they weren't his alone. It took many people. I appreciate the beauty as the creator, not Jobs' genius. I'm not bashing Jobs, he was great at what he did. All is one

+ :idea:

[Oceania]

he never took credit unfairly. he was the head of the company. that role is like an actor's role or director's role. they take the crap and the credit. not everyone wants the credit. you wanna be famous? tell me it's great when people write s*** about you on random message boards.

and is there anything wrong with not liking STS? if you think that's here nor there then you shouldn't judge if i do judge it.

[turtledude23]

why is this bash Steve jobs thread? he was a human being. so what? was he supposed to be a saint? people love JFK and he was no saint. lots of our heroes were human. that'spart of the charm. as for materialistic gadgets, it wasn't that, he saw beauty in things, art. just cuz you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. he gave us quality that we actually can use. not gadgets. tools. he gave us tools. look at the iPad. that's the new direction. and he saw it years ago. he was a visionary. and NOT STS. who are you to decide what he was? jeeze. talk about high horses.

You seem to be personally affected by people sharing their opinions on a public figure. This is a thread about steve jobs, if some people bash him and other people defend him that doesn't mean it becomes a thread about either but about both.

You're defending him because he told his employees to make an computer with a touchscreen, I'm attacking him because he was mean to his employees and restricted what other innovators can do (e.g. iOS app developers, people who want to modify their macs, etc.). Maybe he was a visionary, but if his vision includes holding back other visionaries then what?

I wouldn't say he was significantly STS but I would definitely say he was more STS than the average person and I certainly do not look up to him as a human being, at most I respect him for being a good business person and marketer.

Let's not forget we're talking about a narrow definition of innovation here. We can all relate to the concept of making a phone prettier or adding a touchscreen to a computer because its simple and any one of us could have come up with it. Imagine how much creativity it takes to design an improved microprocessor. Do you know that microprocessors get twice as powerful every two years? Making the hardware that makes pretty phones possible takes alot of creativity and vision too, especially when you're expected to release an improved product every two years. Talk about pressure and vision.

I like the internet too, but this summer I lived on an Ashram/Organic Farm for 3 months and I realized that I had no use for the internet anymore. That is until I came back to Toronto...

+ :idea:

I live in Toronto!

[BlatzAdict]

umm has anyone seen pirates of silicon valley?

---

maybe it dramatizes the whole thing but jobs talks about having this single vision. of everything being connected.

and he kinda did that... he made a phone... that could sync to a computer. and to other apple wireless devices.
and all the devices save the same relevant info.

the idea made me think of oneness... and made me excited to see technology in the future... the next big thing is human thought recognition devices put in to the phones i think.
like you touch it and think about calling whoever and then it calls that person.

i wonder if that technology can be re appropriated from the recovered crafts. or already has been.

i think that would really bring that idea of oneness and that essence, the original beauty of his idea would come to fruition. the only thing that stinks is that in order to use those kinds of services is to have apple products. though most people have iphones so... ??

[turtledude23]

umm has anyone seen pirates of silicon valley?

---

maybe it dramatizes the whole thing but jobs talks about having this single vision. of everything being connected.

and he kinda did that... he made a phone... that could sync to a computer. and to other apple wireless devices.
and all the devices save the same relevant info.

the idea made me think of oneness... and made me excited to see technology in the future... the next big thing is human thought recognition devices put in to the phones i think.
like you touch it and think about calling whoever and then it calls that person.

i wonder if that technology can be re appropriated from the recovered crafts. or already has been.

i think that would really bring that idea of oneness and that essence, the original beauty of his idea would come to fruition. the only thing that stinks is that in order to use those kinds of services is to have apple products. though most people have iphones so... ??

To achieve that vision you need a centralization of all information in the hands of a private corporation, I don't think I need to warn you about what could go wrong with that. Companies like AOL and CompuServe tried to a create a "walled garden" internet which never would have allowed for a forum like this one, all the best things we appreciate about the internet are because a group of idealistic computer nerds, whose names we don't know, who fought against large corporations to create a decentralized, anonymous internet - we can lose that all because of a company like Apple which has a tendency to monopolize markets then control the information flow.

[Plenum]

Steve Jobs' Cancer Treatment Regrets

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton...t-regrets/

Steve Jobs had an easily curable form of cancer but pursued alternative treatments rather than surgery which allowed the cancer to metastasize.

- -

I probably would have resisted surgery too :-/

I know that Carla has had her spine fused both at the top and the base, and if not for modern medicine, she might not be able to walk today.

I really am allergic to doctors.

time to reconsider the stance??

[BrownEye]

Mind over matter. The program. Any fix can still be overidden by the mind. Any problem can be solved with a thought. Awareness can make you a god, which is the reason it is said we have a veil. The program does not include a bunch of gods running amuk on the planet lol!

[Cyan]

They were out of firewood on planet Xenu.

And thats my final answer.

[BrownEye]

Zen reiterated this on my thread. Without acknowledging the problem, you cannot remove it. This is why changes i make to others are temporary. Unless they take advantage of that moment of clarity to change something.

[Plenum]

Without acknowledging the problem, you cannot remove it. This is why changes i make to others are temporary.

yeah, it's like giving someone a double lung transplant, and they continue to smoke. Temp fix at best.