The Detuning of Session 17 and Ra's True Intentions Regarding 2011 - Part II

[unity100]

Yes, I think we have been talking about two different things. If "walking the circle of one" = protection = preventing a negative entity from taking over Carla's body, then I see no conflict in our points of view.

You are right, who knows? However you have invoked Occam's Razor without taking into account all of the facts. One being that Icaro proposed a theory here in this forum, which doesn't offend my sensibilities as much as it appears to bother others. Next, for "some reason", I was inspired to look for any documentation of solar activity during the sessions Icaro pointed out. In fact, I DID find evidence. And THEN when I followed up on the evidence, I found that the Book V material originating from that time period SPECIFICALLY DISCUSSES psychic attack, and the kidney issue from Carla's past.

So, in this case, invoking Occam's Razor relegates everything else I described above to "mere coincidence". Are you saying that all of these "coincidences" are meaningless, according to your assessment?

let me occam the razor simply :

if a negative entity in 5d had had access and means to set things up as you are portraying, there would be no way in hell anything positive would succeed. each density can manifest feats based on the allowances they are given. and so, things that can affect everything at large can only be accessed from densities 6 and above.

not surprisingly actually, because early 6d is the point at which negative goes away as a polarity, and therefore past that point, the entities get into a formation which would not be destructively irresponsible towards the universe.

not coincidentally, 6d union also signifies unification of genders, and time/space and space/time - the physical properties of the density is analogous to the spiritual properties it manifests, and the rest follow.

[βαθμιαίος]

So, in this case, invoking Occam's Razor relegates everything else I described above to "mere coincidence". Are you saying that all of these "coincidences" are meaningless, according to your assessment?

I'm not commenting on the coincidences other than to say that they don't convince me that what happened to Carla when she was thirteen was necessarily related to her eventual channeling of Ra.

The solar flare article that you linked is from July 28, 1981 and says, "[t]he sun, after weeks of relative quiet, is moving into a period of steadily increasing solar flare activity..."

Session 62 took place on July 13, 1981, presumably during the weeks of relative quiet.

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let me occam the razor simply :

LOL! Love that phrase.

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I'm really enjoying this discussion. Very stimulating and thought-provoking. Thanks to all the participants!

+1

[Tenet Nosce]

so far you are making grand conclusions based on holywood science fiction - not the usable material at hand or general spiritualism.

Questioner: Was the opening that was made in the protective circle planned to be made by the Orion entity? Was it a specific planned attempt to make an opening, or was this just something that happened by accident?

Ra: I am Ra. This entity was, as your people put it, looking for a target of opportunity. The missed word was a chance occurrence and not a planned one.

We might suggest in the, shall we say, future, as you measure space/time, as you begin a working be aware that this instrument is likely being watched for any opportunity. Thus if the circle is walked with some imperfection it is well to immediately repeat. The expelling of breath is also appropriate, always to the left.

Can you please explain how a 5D entity "looks for a target of opportunity" while being bound to our "normal" perceptions of 3D time? Is the entity just following Carla around... or?

Questioner: Could you give an example of how this programming by the Higher Self would then bring about education through parallel experiences?

Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the simplest example of this apparent simultaneity of existence of two selves, which are in truth one self at the same time/space, is this: the Oversoul, as you call it, or Higher Self, seems to exist simultaneously with the mind/body/spirit complex which it aids. This is not actually simultaneous, for the Higher Self is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex as needed from a position in development of the entity which would be considered in the future of this entity.

So the Higher Self is in sixth density, which would be considered in the future of an entity in 3D. Please explain what I am missing, or how I have misinterpreted the quote.

Questioner: Then the Higher Self operates from the future as we understand things. In other words my Higher Self would operate from what I consider to be my future? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. From the standpoint of your space/time, this is correct.

Plain as day. Either that or I am suffering again from a severe chronic case of brain farts.

Questioner: You said that each third-density entity has an Higher Self in the sixth-density which is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex of the entity as needed. Does this Higher Self also evolve in growth through the densities beginning with the first-density, and does each Higher Self have a corresponding Higher Self advanced in densities beyond it?

Ra: I am Ra. To simplify this concept is our intent. The Higher Self is a manifestation given to the late sixth-density mind/body/spirit complex as a gift from its future selfness. The mid-seventh density’s last action before turning towards the allness of the Creator and gaining spiritual mass is to give this resource to the sixth-density self, moving as you measure time in the stream of time.

This self, the mind/body/spirit complex of late sixth-density, has then the honor/duty of using both the experiences of its total living bank of memory of experience, thoughts, and actions, and using the resource of the mind/body/spirit complex totality left behind as a type of infinitely complex thought-form.

In this way you may see your self, your Higher Self or Oversoul, and your mind/body/spirit complex totality as three points in a circle. The only distinction is that of your time/space continuum. All are the same being.

So, the mind/body/spirit complex in sixth density, draws upon its past experiences or "living bank of memory", creating the Higher Self manifestation, which then becomes available to the seeker "in the past" moving through third density.

Yes- it is our limited perception which creates the illusion of past-present-future. Therefore, I would imagine that a sixth density entity would be able to view the entirety of a 3D cycle as a whole.

Unless you are saying that only a 6D entity could do this, and that 4D and 5D entities are somehow restricted in consciousness in linear time? I don't think I am following you here.

Perhaps if you offered more detail as to the nature and abilities of 4D and 5D negative entities, with respect to what they can and can't do to manipulate 3D entities it would help to clear things up. I am apparently attributing greater power to these negative entities then they have, in which case it would behoove me to know their limitations more clearly.

I did find this quote:

Questioner: What is the objective; what does the leader, the one at the very top of the pecking order in fifth-density of the Orion group, have as an objective? I would like to understand his philosophy with respect to his objectives and plans for what we might call the future or his future?

Ra: I am Ra. This thinking will not be so strange to you. Therefore, we may speak through the densities as your planet has some negatively oriented action in sway at this space/time nexus.

The early fifth-density negative entity, if oriented towards maintaining cohesion as a social memory complex, may in its free will determine that the path to wisdom lies in the manipulation in exquisite propriety of all other-selves. It then, by virtue of its abilities in wisdom, is able to be the leader of fourth-density beings which are upon the road to wisdom by exploring the dimensions of love of self and understanding of self. These fifth-density entities see the creation as that which shall be put in order.

Dealing with a plane such as this third-density at this harvesting, it will see the mechanism of the call more clearly and have much less distortion towards plunder or manipulation by thoughts which are given to negatively oriented entities although in allowing this to occur and sending less wise entities to do this work, any successes redound to the leaders.

The fifth-density sees the difficulties posed by the light and in this way directs entities of this vibration to the seeking of targets of opportunity such as this one. If fourth-density temptations, shall we say, towards distortion of ego, etc. are not successful the fifth-density entity then thinks in terms of the removal of light.

All of the above described manipulations seem to imply an ability to function outside the bounds of 3D space/time. If this is not the case, please describe what is the case.

Questioner: I think I have an erroneous concept of the mind/body/spirit complex that, for instance, I represent here in this density and my Higher Self. This probably comes from my concept of space and time. I am going to try to unscramble this. The way I see it right now is that I am existing in two different locations, here and in mid-sixth-density, simultaneously. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. You are existing at all levels simultaneously. It is specifically correct that your Higher Self is you in mid-sixth-density and, in your way of measuring what you know of as time, your Higher Self is your self in your future.

Redundant, but I am including this quote for redundancy's sake.

In you continue to find my understanding to be severely lacking after reading this post, I ask that you specifically offer the information which you perceive to be lacking. This would be more helpful, than issuing another dismissal. EDIT: You appear to have done this above, so only add anything you have not already said in the previous post.

[Monica]

So the Higher Self is in sixth density, which would be considered in the future of an entity in 3D. Please explain what I am missing, or how I have misinterpreted the quote.

Questioner: Then the Higher Self operates from the future as we understand things. In other words my Higher Self would operate from what I consider to be my future? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. From the standpoint of your space/time, this is correct.

Plain as day. Either that or I am suffering again from a severe chronic case of brain farts.

I don't understand this to mean that all 6D is in 'our' future. 6D Ra is in some other entities' future; ie. the entities of Venus. Our Higher Selves are in our future. But unless our Higher Selves are part of Ra, Ra isn't in our future, but simply millions of 'our' years ahead of us in their evolution.

It has been speculated that some of us Wanderers are part of Ra, but even so, that wouldn't make Ra in our future.

[3DMonkey]

6th Density gives us the sense of purpose within eternity. In it, we have our fullness. It is the point of connection between our self as we know it and the wholeness of One. It is the actual imaginary line between separateness and wholeness.

[Tenet Nosce]

no i havent watched that.

I would be interested to know how coherent this video is with your own personal views regarding the upcoming time period.

[unity100]

Can you please explain how a 5D entity "looks for a target of opportunity" while being bound to our "normal" perceptions of 3D time? Is the entity just following Carla around... or?

entity is following Carla around. i dont know why you even ask that. it is expressed that the entity has past the quarantine with its astral body, and waiting around Carla in time/space. (astral part of this nexus).

Questioner: Could you give an example of how this programming by the Higher Self would then bring about education through parallel experiences?

Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the simplest example of this apparent simultaneity of existence of two selves, which are in truth one self at the same time/space, is this: the Oversoul, as you call it, or Higher Self, seems to exist simultaneously with the mind/body/spirit complex which it aids. This is not actually simultaneous, for the Higher Self is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex as needed from a position in development of the entity which would be considered in the future of this entity.

So the Higher Self is in sixth density, which would be considered in the future of an entity in 3D. Please explain what I am missing, or how I have misinterpreted the quote.

i already told it in my earlier post, but probably you havent read it by the time you replied to this part since it remains in the below quotes.

higher self of an entity is THAT entity's future manifestation. and, as you can see, it manifests at mid 6th density, where unification of balances of male/female polarities happen, not to mention the paths. at this point you can claim that time/space and space/time are more evenly distributed.

this doesnt allow entities before that point to be able to do 'time travel to change things'.

in short, just any entity currently in 6d is not your future manifestation. not to mention that any entity in 5d does not happen to be in its future.

Questioner: Then the Higher Self operates from the future as we understand things. In other words my Higher Self would operate from what I consider to be my future? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. From the standpoint of your space/time, this is correct.

Plain as day. Either that or I am suffering again from a severe chronic case of brain farts.

So, the mind/body/spirit complex in sixth density, draws upon its past experiences or "living bank of memory", creating the Higher Self manifestation, which then becomes available to the seeker "in the past" moving through third density.

this is what i say when you are making hasty conclusions in your hurry and getting off-thrown.

read the bold part again and emphasize the underlined part. the entity higher self is the future of THAT entity in that particular nexus. it is not the future manifestation of another entity in another planet as of that moment. to another entity, that higher self would just be a 6d entity.

Yes- it is our limited perception which creates the illusion of past-present-future. Therefore, I would imagine that a sixth density entity would be able to view the entirety of a 3D cycle as a whole.

Unless you are saying that only a 6D entity could do this, and that 4D and 5D entities are somehow restricted in consciousness in linear time? I don't think I am following you here.

first, there is no such thing as 'linear' and 'nonlinear' time. light, which has been created at the start of everything, travels in an infinite straight line. and after that EVERYthing that you count comes - including the concept you call 'time', which is actually just something that measures change of the manifestations/states/movements of existing entities made of light, compared to OTHER changes. it is a comparison. there is one 'time'.

but secondly and more importantly, there are endless pointers to what time in this planetary nexus in 3d means :

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...=1&ss=1#20

16.20 Questioner: Thank you very much. In previous material, before we communicated with you, it was stated by the Confederation that there is actually no past or future … that all is present. Would this be a good analogy?

Ra: I am Ra. There is past, present, and future in third density. In an overview such as an entity may have, removed from the space/time continuum, it may be seen that in the cycle of completion there exists only the present. We, ourselves, seek to learn this understanding. At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

the 'present' that some speak of is NOT valid until 7d.

Perhaps if you offered more detail as to the nature and abilities of 4D and 5D negative entities, with respect to what they can and can't do to manipulate 3D entities it would help to clear things up. I am apparently attributing greater power to these negative entities then they have, in which case it would behoove me to know their limitations more clearly.

if you revisit and work on the archetypal material you have easily dismissed, you will notice a lot of important aspects that make up the creation, including the quite important positive/negative male/female polarities and their relation with space/time and time/space.

analyzing these, you will see that each density increasingly approximates 1:1 balance and merger of these counterparts, asymptotically approaching infinity.

in any lesser point in this function, any manifestation will be unevenly distributed in space/time and time/space, as well as positive/negative, male/female, limiting what it can do and its properties depending on the measure of the unification.

from this point on you will be able to see that mid 6d, a point where the polarities merge, is a point where the possibilities you propose begin, due to increased permeability of the polarities/balances from both sides. not to mention from this point on, (and 6d in general) the separation in between physical/astral become blurred, leading to smaller differences in between a physical body manifestation and astral. which totally is removed when an entity gets into 7d.

any point before this, the separation of polarities and all the limiting factors they bring, exist - including the impossibility of time travel into your own past and whatnot and so on.



I did find this quote:

Questioner: What is the objective; what does the leader, the one at the very top of the pecking order in fifth-density of the Orion group, have as an objective? I would like to understand his philosophy with respect to his objectives and plans for what we might call the future or his future?

Ra: I am Ra. This thinking will not be so strange to you. Therefore, we may speak through the densities as your planet has some negatively oriented action in sway at this space/time nexus.

The early fifth-density negative entity, if oriented towards maintaining cohesion as a social memory complex, may in its free will determine that the path to wisdom lies in the manipulation in exquisite propriety of all other-selves. It then, by virtue of its abilities in wisdom, is able to be the leader of fourth-density beings which are upon the road to wisdom by exploring the dimensions of love of self and understanding of self. These fifth-density entities see the creation as that which shall be put in order.

Dealing with a plane such as this third-density at this harvesting, it will see the mechanism of the call more clearly and have much less distortion towards plunder or manipulation by thoughts which are given to negatively oriented entities although in allowing this to occur and sending less wise entities to do this work, any successes redound to the leaders.

The fifth-density sees the difficulties posed by the light and in this way directs entities of this vibration to the seeking of targets of opportunity such as this one. If fourth-density temptations, shall we say, towards distortion of ego, etc. are not successful the fifth-density entity then thinks in terms of the removal of light.

All of the above described manipulations seem to imply an ability to function outside the bounds of 3D space/time. If this is not the case, please describe what is the case.

that is incorrect. in nowhere above anything that is relevant to 'time' is expressed or implied.

an entity that is manifesting as a 5d entity at YOUR current time (in this 3d nexus), may send you thoughts that affect you. this does not mean that entity traveled back in time.

the 5d entity that you speak of, as already TOLD in the material, got past quarantine with its astral body, and was waiting around the group in time/space looking for opportunity. and at a point, considered withdrawing because its efforts were failing.

it was not outside bounds of time. to be outside bounds of time you need to be in 7d.

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So the Higher Self is in sixth density, which would be considered in the future of an entity in 3D. Please explain what I am missing, or how I have misinterpreted the quote.

Questioner: Then the Higher Self operates from the future as we understand things. In other words my Higher Self would operate from what I consider to be my future? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. From the standpoint of your space/time, this is correct.

Plain as day. Either that or I am suffering again from a severe chronic case of brain farts.

I don't understand this to mean that all 6D is in 'our' future. 6D Ra is in some other entities' future; ie. the entities of Venus. Our Higher Selves are in our future. But unless our Higher Selves are part of Ra, Ra isn't in our future, but simply millions of 'our' years ahead of us in their evolution.

4 billion 75 000 years to be precise. this was when Ra's 3d had ended.

some seem to think that a higher density means 'future'.

[Tenet Nosce]

I'm not commenting on the coincidences other than to say that they don't convince me that what happened to Carla when she was thirteen was necessarily related to her eventual channeling of Ra.

I don't expect it to be convincing or irrefutable proof. Only I would expect that when somebody keeps "happening upon" information intuitively, that there is IN FACT something of value there to be pursued.

The first attempt at translating such an awareness is not likely to be 100% accurate. The appropriate, or shall I say desired, response is to acknowledge that something of value might be present, and then to assist the seeker in separating the "wheat from the chaff" so to speak.

Simply dismissing the whole thing as impossible and useless right off the bat, simply because the details aren't all ironed out, basically amounts to telling a person that they are dysfunctional, and calls into question the entirety of their spiritual growth up until that point.

At the very least, it turns the conversation from constructive to defensive. A more constructive conversation would involve Person B pointing out the questionable or tenuous conclusions from Person A's post, and then offering an alternative conclusion which accounts for the facts, and is respectful of a seeker's inner guidance system.

.

Frank Guy, solar forecaster of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, said the last major flare in a series that occurred around mid-July [around the 13th] occurred early Sunday [the 26th].

The article goes on to say:

The magnetic storm is the second most severe observed thus far in 1981...

The implication of this being that the first most severe storm could have occurred during some of the previous sessions that Icaro pointed out.

But apparently I am just mentally masturbating, projecting desires, seeing things where they are not, and being let astray by my own guidance system. So perhaps it would be pointless to further pursue this line of inquiry.

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[quote=unity100].....
Thank you for your insights and additional information. I will review the link you offered, as well as revisit the archetype material to see what I may have missed the last time around.

It would appear that I have been attributing abilities to 4D/5D negative entities which they do not have. This is a relief.

[βαθμιαίος]

Simply dismissing the whole thing as impossible and useless right off the bat, simply because the details aren't all ironed out, basically amounts to telling a person that they are dysfunctional, and calls into question the entirety of their spiritual growth up until that point.

Yikes! I didn't say it was impossible and useless, just that I don't find it convincing. Just because I don't find it convincing doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't. And I never meant to imply, nor did I ever think, that you (if it's you we're talking about here) were or are dysfunctional, nor did I intend to question your spiritual growth.

At the very least, it turns the conversation from constructive to defensive. A more constructive conversation would involve Person B pointing out the questionable or tenuous conclusions from Person A's post, and then offering an alternative conclusion which accounts for the facts, and is respectful of a seeker's inner guidance system.

I intended to do this by suggesting that Carla might have been attacked because she was a wanderer.

Frank Guy, solar forecaster of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, said the last major flare in a series that occurred around mid-July [around the 13th] occurred early Sunday [the 26th].

OK, thanks for that. I admit that I stopped reading after the first paragraph.

But apparently I am just mentally masturbating, projecting desires, seeing things where they are not, and being let astray by my own guidance system. So perhaps it would be pointless to further pursue this line of inquiry.

This line of thinking isn't coming from me. I am not speculating on your motives or anything else about you. I'm just trying to have a conversation with you and the other participants by responding to what you and they post.

[Tenet Nosce]

Yikes!

My apologies. I appear to be having a sensitive moment.

I intended to do this by suggesting that Carla might have been attacked because she was a wanderer.

Got it. But while we're on the topic of wanderers, I am curious- what happens to wanderers upon harvest?

If I am understanding correctly, no wanderers have hybrid bodies... therefore they wouldn't be able to persist in a post-harvest world? Seems curious as it would appear to be a large opportunity for service.

On the other hand, I can also see logic in the idea that, once harvest is completed, there is no further purpose for wanderers to be here as the main objective of wanderers is to increase the harvest.

[The above reply is intended for the forum at large, not just βαθμιαίος]

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read the bold part again and emphasize the underlined part. the entity higher self is the future of THAT entity in that particular nexus. it is not the future manifestation of another entity in another planet as of that moment. to another entity, that higher self would just be a 6d entity.

So what does this imply for a 3D/4D/5D entity that has penetrated the gateway to intelligent infinity? Am I correct in assuming that such a contact would imply communication with the 6D Higher Self manifestation? And further am I correct in assuming that such contact would grant an entity abilities which would not normally be accessible for them within 3D/4D/5D? If so, to what degree would those abilities be limited?

In such a case, what of communication which passes from the 6D Higher Self to the 3D/4D/5D entity? Is is not correct as to perceive it as information "from the future" relative to this nexus? If not, what is the correct perception?

from this point on you will be able to see that mid 6d, a point where the polarities merge, is a point where the possibilities you propose begin, due to increased permeability of the polarities/balances from both sides. not to mention from this point on, (and 6d in general) the separation in between physical/astral become blurred, leading to smaller differences in between a physical body manifestation and astral. which totally is removed when an entity gets into 7d.

any point before this, the separation of polarities and all the limiting factors they bring, exist - including the impossibility of time travel into your own past and whatnot and so on.

This is interesting. Assuming you are correct, it would appear that I have been attempting to project 6D experience into my concept of 4D experience. Specifically, the idea of the blurring between the physical/astral to which you referred. As well as the time travel aspect. This is also interesting because, to my conscious awareness, the only source of knowledge about 6D experience I possess is sourced in the Ra material. Why do you suppose I would be confusing these?

[Raman]

Yikes!

My apologies. I appear to be having a sensitive moment.

I intended to do this by suggesting that Carla might have been attacked because she was a wanderer.

Got it. But while we're on the topic of wanderers, I am curious- what happens to wanderers upon harvest?

If I am understanding correctly, no wanderers have hybrid bodies... therefore they wouldn't be able to persist in a post-harvest world? Seems curious as it would appear to be a large opportunity for service.

On the other hand, I can also see logic in the idea that, once harvest is completed, there is no further purpose for wanderers to be here as the main objective of wanderers is to increase the harvest.

[This reply is intended for the forum at large, not just βαθμιαίος]

For 5d 6d wanderers since in 4d there is no veil and there is memory, it is not possible to remain in a 4d world.
4d is best left to themselves.

However, there is opportunity at some point to learn from other densities since the Confederation is composed form 4d up.

It is interesting to point out that in a way, 4d is possibly the last purest expression of physicality in space/time or matter, since 5d could be physical or light at will and 6d being light itself. Obviously being light allows manifestations into matter (matter being just a form of light) like Ra when walking in Egypt.

[unity100]

If I am understanding correctly, no wanderers have hybrid bodies... therefore they wouldn't be able to persist in a post-harvest world? Seems curious as it would appear to be a large opportunity for service.

it wouldnt be a service. it would be a violation of free will of new 4d entities.

wanderers will be in 4d vibrations on a 4d planet. and since they are already accustomed to their own home density, it will be much easier for them to penetrate the veil acting on their body when they start to remember 4d vibrations.

this would cause free will problems in regard to the new 4d entities' experiences.

wanderers must leave this planet. starting 4d, any call can be answered through thought apparently, or in time/space, without a veil hampering.
there is little need for incarnational processes.

So what does this imply for a 3D/4D/5D entity that has penetrated the gateway to intelligent infinity? Am I correct in assuming that such a contact would imply communication with the 6D Higher Self manifestation? And further am I correct in assuming that such contact would grant an entity abilities which would not normally be accessible for them within 3D/4D/5D? If so, to what degree would those abilities be limited?

penetrating gateway into intelligent infinity should not be taken as something that is continuous and constant. if the entity was vibrating as such, it would be vibrating in a vibration that is outside bounds of this universe and would not be an entity of densities in this octave.

even at the point of contact, it is rather extravagant to think that the entity will be able to perform feats that its mind/spirit cannot comprehend. just think - you are looking at a form of infinity just below infinity, and there are infinite manifestations/thoughts/feelings/concepts in it which you yet dont even know to exist.

you cant use what you dont know. so, infinite amount of stuff would just go unnoticed by the entity, or not perceived even in subconscious levels even if seen.

a good example may be beholding 7d totality of self or the planet or anything else - all you would see would be a sky filled with colorful, changing, shifting clouds that have a collective intelligence and interact with you. you wouldnt be able to do zit with what you see other than interacting. because, you have no idea what is happening in that density even if you are beholding a portion of it in front of your eyes.

in short - the ability of any entity is limited with what its mind/spirit can perceive and muster, consciously or subconsciously at any given level. of course, the body component also is a factor.

In such a case, what of communication which passes from the 6D Higher Self to the 3D/4D/5D entity? Is is not correct as to perceive it as information "from the future" relative to this nexus? If not, what is the correct perception?

you can perceive it as from the future relative to this nexus, but it would be on an energetic/spiritual level. and, even if you go about to saying that energy is matter, even in that state that kind of interaction would still be a part of this nexus. hence, the cyclic nature of past and future in regard to 3d entity and its higher self.

This is interesting. Assuming you are correct, it would appear that I have been attempting to project 6D experience into my concept of 4D experience. Specifically, the idea of the blurring between the physical/astral to which you referred. As well as the time travel aspect. Why do you suppose I would be confusing these?

can happen due to two logical factors - subjective factors or other stuff i cant say anything about.

first logical factor is you didnt spend enough time on researching what makes space, what makes time, what is time, what is space, what does space/time and time/space mean, what does a density mean, what does an octave mean and the densities' order. coupled with their properties for each density, and how do male/female positive/negative reflect in regard to existence in this octave like as in space, time, and so on.

mostly material of book 4.

second logical factor is that you were hasty again - you didnt go through a plain direct thought process before making conclusions - if, a negative 5d entity had access to 'time' and was able to change things in the past, there is no way in hell that entire universe was not a big singular empire by now. so, the law of responsibility kicks in here again - all entities are responsible with all their acts, and what entities can do are limited with what responsibility they can handle at any given point.

therefore, there is no way that a 5d entity could travel in time and change things. just like how a 4d entity is not able to change its body manifestation at will, or travel by thought easily like a 5d entity. if you go down to 3d, limitations grow even more. if you go down to 1d, you find that entities in that density are not even able to move by their own will and propulsion.

and so it goes.

[Tenet Nosce]

For 5d 6d wanderers since in 4d there is no veil and there is memory, it is not possible to remain in a 4d world.
4d is best left to themselves.

This seems like a reasonable proposition to me. Do you have any idea what this "looks like" for wanderers departing to their home densities? Do they just drop out of their bodies, like when the plug gets pulled in The Matrix? Disease? Getting caught up in the maelstrom of earth changes? Simply go missing? All of the above? Whichever they choose?

Assuming such wanderers are in close association with loved ones and family members it seems like it would be a crushing disservice to suddenly turn up dead. Or perhaps this is the "Sorrow" which the wanderers have taken upon themselves? The burden they must bear for piercing the veil and essentially gaining foreknowledge about their own physical death?

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wanderers must leave this planet. starting 4d, any call can be answered through thought apparently, or in time/space, without a veil hampering.
there is little need for incarnational processes.

As I replied above to Raman, this seems like sound logic to me. So I will follow up with a similar query: what happens to the wanderer's physical body as they leave this planet? Will there be any body left behind? Or would such a wanderer be able to simply "step out" of this density, as has been suggested was possible for the Mayan ancestors?

If it is the case that a wanderer must needs leave their physical body behind so as to not interfere with free will of those remaining on the planet- what degree of choice do you understand the wanderer would have with respect to the death process? Would it be possible for a wanderer to simply "choose death" consciously, drop the physical body, and then continue on directly to their home density in mind/spirit only?

Or... perhaps would such an entity find that their 5D/6D body complex was "alive and well" having been in a sort of hibernation during their sojourn into 3D? I can imagine that, from the wanderer's perspective, it may appear that they have simply "woken up" from a dream, or something similar. In this respect, the overwhelming feeling of "harvest" would be more of a returning, than a departing, relative to the consciousness of the wanderer.


Any other ideas?

[βαθμιαίος]

My apologies. I appear to be having a sensitive moment.

No worries. Give yourself a big hug from me.

[unity100]

As I replied above to Raman, this seems like sound logic to me. So I will follow up with a similar query: what happens to the wanderer's physical body as they leave this planet? Will there be any body left behind? Or would such a wanderer be able to simply "step out" of this density, as has been suggested was possible for the Mayan ancestors?

the body will simply die. unless not walked in by another entity due to an agreement or something. even 3-4d bodies need to die if you look at Ra.

If it is the case that a wanderer must needs leave their physical body behind so as to not interfere with free will of those remaining on the planet- what degree of choice do you understand the wanderer would have with respect to the death process? Would it be possible for a wanderer to simply "choose death" consciously, drop the physical body, and then continue on directly to their home density in mind/spirit only?

depends on how things were planned for life of entity. or, how the death mechanism during harvest works out.

in addition, any entity which contacted intelligent infinity during incarnation was told to have the right to choose how they will leave this density. i dont think wanderers are an exception.

Or... perhaps would such an entity find that their 5D/6D body complex was "alive and well" having been in a sort of hibernation during their sojourn into 3D? I can imagine that, from the wanderer's perspective, it may appear that they have simply "woken up" from a dream, or something similar. In this respect, the overwhelming feeling of "harvest" would be more of a returning, than a departing, relative to the consciousness of the wanderer.

it feels as if you are rather cold to the process of dying.

there wouldnt be much difference to a 6d entity because when dead, entity would be placed in time/space 6d body. since there is less difference in between time/space and space/time in 6d than 3d, this would not be something that is too different from what would happen if the entity was in physical body in 6d. so it wouldnt make much difference.

if the entity kept a 6d body in 6d, it would need to be attached to it too. i dont think that's likely.

dying and going back to its home vibration would be a coming home for any entity. leave aside a 6d entity returning to its social memory complex, which is basically home.

[Tenet Nosce]

in addition, any entity which contacted intelligent infinity during incarnation was told to have the right to choose how they will leave this density. i dont think wanderers are an exception.

1. What would be the evidence of such a contact?
2. Wouldn't the nature of the wanderer imply that they would automatically contact intelligent infinity upon harvest? Or if not, simply through making a simple request to do so?

Also, I am having a hard time reconciling the immediate nature of harvest with choosing the manner of departure. This is why I previously hypothesized with you about the window of approximately one year. Which would be plenty of time to reduce the traumatic effect this might have on others. Any thoughts on this?

it feels as if you are rather cold to the process of dying.

What would you characterize as warm in this respect?

[unity100]

in addition, any entity which contacted intelligent infinity during incarnation was told to have the right to choose how they will leave this density. i dont think wanderers are an exception.

1. What would be the evidence of such a contact?

this is probably the 4th time or so that you are asking this in 4 separate consecutive threads now. if i was to repeat again, what an entity contacting infinite intelligence consciously was explained in material.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#2

2. Wouldn't the nature of the wanderer imply that they would automatically contact intelligent infinity upon harvest? Or if not, simply through making a simple request to do so?

contacting intelligent infinity apparently is something that happens from 8th chakra. and as such, its 2 octaves above 6th density. though we can only make assumptions at this point, i think it shouldnt just be a direct contact whenever the energy is available. the entity may need to tune in and go up with the energy.

doing it 'by request' part, is something i cant comment on.

Also, I am having a hard time reconciling the immediate nature of harvest with choosing the manner of departure. This is why I previously hypothesized with you about the window of approximately one year. Which would be plenty of time to reduce the traumatic effect this might have on others. Any thoughts on this?

i dont think an immediate mass death with the presence of energies from intelligent infinity upon the planet, and presence of harvesters through a preplanned mechanism would be traumatic. leaving aside its something preplanned, there are also harvesters and infinite intelligence directly present at such a point. leaving aside the usual normal mechanisms and entities which assist the dying process and those that are dying.

in addition, i dont think an entity which is in contact with infinite intelligence at that point in time, would care if it died, leave aside being frightened.

it feels as if you are rather cold to the process of dying.

What would you characterize as warm in this respect?

that question is lost on me.

[Tenet Nosce]

it feels as if you are rather cold to the process of dying.

What would you characterize as warm in this respect?

that question is lost on me.

What do you mean by "cold"? Are you meaning "inexperienced" or "emotionally numb" or..?

I was asking how would a person who is "warm" to the process of dying view it, in contrast to how you feel I am?

[Monica]

wanderers must leave this planet.

At some point yes...but what makes you so sure wanderers 'must' leave immediately and suddenly?

[zenmaster]

wanderers must leave this planet.

At some point yes...but what makes you so sure wanderers 'must' leave immediately and suddenly?

And if wanderers are dual activated, as you say, then they are part of the beginning 4th density experience.

[unity100]

wanderers must leave this planet.

At some point yes...but what makes you so sure wanderers 'must' leave immediately and suddenly?

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#6

We discovered that for each word we could utter, there were thirty impressions we gave by our very being, which confused those entities we had come to serve.

just by being incarnated, a wanderer becomes basically a channel for energies of its own social memory complex, and vibration. this process is impeded by veil and reduced remembrance of the wanderer when in a 3d body. wanderers who can pierce this veil, can get in touch with their sources and increase the flow. so, it is basically tied to the capacity of the wanderer to pierce the veil.

however, when planet is fully aligned to 4d vibrations, it would become much easier for wanderers to pierce through the veil through their mind/spirit. a higher vibration is not only something they are desiring and craving for, but also something they remember. a 4d entity would not have the same drive to tune with 4d vibrations as much as a wanderer, despite s/he is of harvested status. wanderer is basically a high density entity which does not at all like the vibration vicinity of late 3d, leave aside 3d. it would desire to move to any more comfortable vibration it could find.

and when they tune with that energy, they will inevitably start piercing the veil even though in a 3d body, and they will inevitably be radiating the vibrations of their home social memory complex. this is not something optional or conscious. any entity is a reflector for the source it vibrates and draws energy from. a 'vibration' is not just some energy vibrating in some frequency - it also carries any kind of characteristic the resulting mind/spirit collective developed up till that point.

so you basically suddenly have a lot of entities which are radiating the vibrations of their home densities along with their understanding.

in short, they will collectively be imprinting their vibration and whatever understanding and inclinations that come with their vibration (not of the density only, but also their own social memory complex flavor) onto the newly budding 4d society.

without having been called by 4d entities. without there being any options to accept or reject or offset.

so the new 4d planetary entity will be born by being heavily imprinted upon. this is not something that is acceptable per the principle of free will.

it is not possible to defend against free will principle by proposing that these wanderers were called to this 3d planet to help either - 3d planet is no longer a 3d planet. and they were not called by 4d entities.

it feels as if you are rather cold to the process of dying.

What would you characterize as warm in this respect?

that question is lost on me.

What do you mean by "cold"? Are you meaning "inexperienced" or "emotionally numb" or..?

I was asking how would a person who is "warm" to the process of dying view it, in contrast to how you feel I am?

you seemed to be trying to weed out if there were any ways to leave the density without going through anything resembling the process of death as known here.

wanderers must leave this planet.

At some point yes...but what makes you so sure wanderers 'must' leave immediately and suddenly?

And if wanderers are dual activated, as you say, then they are part of the beginning 4th density experience.

wanderers being dual activated is not a possibility, since dual activated body already allows remembrance of 4d characteristics by newly harvested 4d entities as stated in the material. this would basically entail to a easy and fast piercing of the veil for wanderers even from the start.

[zenmaster]

wanderers being dual activated is not a possibility

Yep.

[Tenet Nosce]

wanderers being dual activated is not a possibility

Yep.

Why?

[zenmaster]

wanderers being dual activated is not a possibility

Yep.

Why?

My take is that they have a genetic connection to a time/space 4D vibrational mind. Wanderers have 3D vibrational minds.

[unity100]

wanderers being dual activated is not a possibility

Yep.

Why?

My take is that they have a genetic connection to a time/space 4D vibrational mind. Wanderers have 3D vibrational minds.

considering there are major genetic differences in between 3d and 4d bodies (and 3-4d bodies) this may be a possibility.

[Raman]

It seems there is a quantum shift. Otherwise it does not make sense why there are 3d/4d dual activated that have to die according to 3d necessities. It has to be that once harvest phenomenon occurs the 3d 'area' dies per 3d neccesitiy and the 4d (now activated) body is able to keep going. Otherwise it just makes no sense having dual activated ones and then just die like a regular 3d. this means that indeed 3d goes away and 4d is activated.

[zenmaster]

It seems there is a quantum shift. Otherwise it does not make sense why there are 3d/4d dual activated that have to die according to 3d necessities. It has to be that once harvest phenomenon occurs the 3d 'area' dies per 3d neccesitiy and the 4d (now activated) body is able to keep going. Otherwise it just makes no sense having dual activated ones and then just die like a regular 3d. this means that indeed 3d goes away and 4d is activated.

Harvest is what provided the vibrations required to make use of the local space/time green-ray environment in the first place. As more 4D material is available, more will be usable to make bodies. Probably will take a few hundred years. Harvest has nothing to do with 3D death, or with full 4D activation, of course.

[unity100]

harvest providing the vibrations required for using green ray environment is not based on anything. there was no harvest by then, but a lot of 3-4d entities (30 000 and more) were born by dual bodies circa 1981.

[zenmaster]

harvest providing the vibrations required for using green ray environment is not based on anything.

Incorrect. You are ignoring that the 3D graduate gets harvested to a 4D vibration. That is the essence that attracts the 4D material.

[unity100]

harvest providing the vibrations required for using green ray environment is not based on anything.

Incorrect. You are ignoring that the 3D graduate gets harvested to a 4D vibration. That is the essence that attracts the 4D material.

incorrect your incorrect - the planet moved into 4d vibrations in 1937, and it was true color green a long time ago before 3-4d entities started incarnating.