The Detuning of Session 17 and Ra's True Intentions Regarding 2011 - Part II

[unity100]

Given your previous comments on why I should care about impractical information in Book 4, despite my already having told you that I -do- care about it, and in light of a direct inquiry for assistance:

the problem is not whether you care about it or not - the problem is, you dubbed as transient information, and then proceeded to make grand conclusions regarding negative influence due to transient information. that is wrong.

if you just told 'i dont care about it', it would be alright. but you used your non-caring as a base to conclude that information was transient, whereas it was not. asking about rasputin's love life is transient. not asking about what constitutes an 'entity' with mind, spirit and body.

It sounds to me like you consider yourself to be one of those very few who has landed upon the precise interpretation of the material. So, what say you? Harvest is in 52 days. What message do you have for me, Tenet Nosce, who appears to be one minute on the verge of grasping something, and the next minute floundering in confusion. Any advice?

harvest is happening as of now/until a near date vicinity within 2011 you mean. yes, harvest may be happening now, and it may end in 52 days or so, with the frequency going to max.

judging from the changing behavior of people even in this forum it is easy to conclude that whatever has to happen, seems to be happening even as of now. 'all react to the unchangeable during harvest'.

there is nothing to say about it. i think the time for preparing is past. it is even useless to tell people to act according to their inner motives and drives now, since the vibration increase seem to be forcing people to do that sooner or later even if they resist at the start.

being more aware of the process by not rejecting it or trying to deny it would be more helpful though - it could allow the person to see his/her nature in all its bareness.

Your reply is actually quite telling of the amount of pristine spiritual principles you have succeeded in making practical for everyday use. As evidenced by the fact that you have pretty much "dismissed" everybody in this forum in one way or another, I am inclined to ask what exactly is your purpose in being here? What are you seeking in your interactions with others in this forum?

i dismiss people, when interaction with them reach an impasse due to any kind of reason. the rest would be a long discussion.

[Tenet Nosce]

harvest is happening as of now/until a near date vicinity within 2011 you mean. yes, harvest may be happening now, and it may end in 52 days or so, with the frequency going to max.

And when it ends... should we expect you to still be physically present? Or...?

[unity100]

harvest is happening as of now/until a near date vicinity within 2011 you mean. yes, harvest may be happening now, and it may end in 52 days or so, with the frequency going to max.

And when it ends... should we expect you to still be physically present? Or...?

according to what you have dug out in the first 2 threads, apparently all else than the 3-4d entities will need to bite the dust soon.

[Raman]

I don't think there will even be dust left to bite...(or thoughts or feelings...)

Which is good..don't get me wrong guys!

[3DMonkey]

Session 62 - Carla was under specific psychic greeting. Ra asks that breath be expelled over her body.

This session occurred at the beginning of a flurry of major solar flares:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fvJ...lare&hl=en

It appears that sessions 62 - 64 occurred during this period of intense solar activity. There is also a Book V fragment from that time. I haven't looked into it any further at this point, as I have an appointment coming in...

in case you reflect on the cases for which 'psychic greeting' termage is used, you will see that the phrase 'physic greeting' is used as a polite way of saying 'attempt to kill'. not 'influence', or 'lead astray' or any of the sort. all the 'psychic greetings' in the book take form of trying to amplify one or other health problem or distortion to kill the entity named as Carla.

I thought we weren't supposed to apply personal bias to the material.

[Tenet Nosce]

Session 62 - Carla was under specific psychic greeting. Ra asks that breath be expelled over her body.

This session occurred at the beginning of a flurry of major solar flares:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fvJ...lare&hl=en

It appears that sessions 62 - 64 occurred during this period of intense solar activity. There is also a Book V fragment from that time. I haven't looked into it any further at this point, as I have an appointment coming in...

This just in:

Space Instrument Observes New Characteristics of Solar Flares

[unity100]

if you post that in mayan day/night thread it would be more tidy and relevant to the thread. it will just get lost in this thread.

---

for - it is more relevant to that subject than this.

charging up of a planet by energy can be used to any means. with that proposal, since the world is so much being bombarded by energy now, we are in a period in which we would have to endure endless psychic attacks.

energy can be used for either means.

[Tenet Nosce]

according to what you have dug out in the first 2 threads, apparently all else than the 3-4d entities will need to bite the dust soon.

And then what happens to the hybrid population left behind post-harvest?

[unity100]

according to what you have dug out in the first 2 threads, apparently all else than the 3-4d entities will need to bite the dust soon.

And then what happens to the hybrid population left behind post-harvest?

that is a good question.

[βαθμιαίος]

If you look at the material as a whole, there is a clear trend toward more transitory material as it goes on.

That's basically the opposite of my sense of the progression of the sessions. Don started out by asking about transient material, in part because he thought it would help attract an audience, but by the end he was focusing on material much more central to Ra's interests (philosophy, the archetypical mind, etc.)

Here's a helpful outline of the subjects covered in each session: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=2448

There are so many countless works on the tarot and the archetypes, and frankly I didn't find one stitch of new information in any of those responses that couldn't be found in other books, or simply by meditating on the images on the cards themselves.

I'm not aware of any other source that groups the major arcana of the tarot into seven archetypes each of mind, body, and spirit, plus the choice. Are you? If so, could you provide a reference?

[native]

you are not at all willing to mold or grow your understanding. for 2.5 threads total now, you are trying to go around a quote you dont like.

Nope. I have been entering form and exiting form as Monica would say. I have no problem publicly discussing my thought process as I attempt to make sense of a quote taken out of context. Your personal critiques do no affect me. Your criticisms only motivated me to eloquently describe the present moment, and I will gladly point new members to that thread when they have questions on the harvest.

Putting my understanding of the present moment in a clear and concise manner only led to further refinement. Through this, I seem to have illuminated some observations on how dates within the material point to some important concepts on negative philosophy, while seemingly describing how negative entities were working on the group to cause confusion in regards to specific information. I will also point new members to this thread, and I'm sure it will be inspiring and thought-provoking. Many seem to like it so far, so I can assume many more will agree with it.

I would like to thank you for your negative catalyst of personal attacks and attempted discouragement. These did not affect me, rather I took them and transformed them positively. Rather than accepting me, your acts of separation by constantly trying to put me below you allowed me to embrace your negativity and transform it. My argument has not been weakening, it has only become more coherent, stronger, and meticulously cited which will benefit current and newer members. I feel that we have made great strides in the past two weeks in understanding the harvest as a group. It seems that many more are choosing to embrace the present moment as they realize that the harvest is now.

I found another good quote..

62.23 Questioner: Isn’t this unusual that a fifth-density entity then would bother to do this rather than sending a fourth-density servant, shall I say?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Nearly all positive channels and groups may be lessened in their positivity or rendered quite useless by what we may call the temptations offered by the fourth-density negative thought-forms. They may suggest many distortions towards specific information, towards the aggrandizement of the self, towards the flowering of the organization in some political, social, or fiscal way.

[Tenet Nosce]

That's basically the opposite of my sense of the progression of the sessions. Don started out by asking about transient material, in part because he thought it would help attract an audience, but by the end he was focusing on material much more central to Ra's interests (philosophy, the archetypical mind, etc.)

Here's a helpful outline of the subjects covered in each session: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=2448

Thanks for the outline. I don't know what to say- maybe I should take another look at that section and see if I have a new assessment as to the practical value of the information contained there.

I'm not aware of any other source that groups the major arcana of the tarot into seven archetypes each of mind, body, and spirit, plus the choice. Are you? If so, could you provide a reference?

There is a section in The Tarot: history, symbolism, and divination which describes the major arcana as "three groups of seven" in the Tarot of Marseilles, which is generally thought to have originated in the 15th century, although that particular term is a late 19th century creation. This system was further elaborated in the late 18th century by Comte de Mellet, who did in fact attribute it to the Egyptians although he had no historical basis for saying so.

Interestingly, this ties back into The Archetypes - Potentiator of the Spirit where I asked you for a reference on Zain. The "Tarot of Marseilles" was a term coined by Papus aka Gerard Encausse, who I believe was partially responsible for a major distortion of occult teaching at the end of the 19th century, in particular that of Joseph Alexandre Saint-Yves d'Alveydre and Sir Edward Bulwer Lytton.

This is not to say the 3X7 +1 framework is a distortion... only that this individual Papus associated his name with the concept, along with several other concepts that did not originate with him. So it is very intriguing that you should ask me this question, and the answer would lead me back to this individual who had a distorting influence on occult traditions.

As previously discussed in Guardians from the Octave Above, some of these ideas, and particularly that of underground civilizations was passed down through this lineage. Not the least of which is a fairly clear comparison of 4D neg/pos worlds as offered in A Wrinkle In Time. Now we have established the 7x3 +1 Tarot was also present in this lineage.

All of these ideas were present and established in the group mind before the Ra contact in 1981. This does not preclude them actually having originated with Ra, in the remote past. But they are certainly not unique to the Ra material at present.

[Raman]

if you post that in mayan day/night thread it would be more tidy and relevant to the thread. it will just get lost in this thread.

---

for - it is more relevant to that subject than this.

charging up of a planet by energy can be used to any means. with that proposal, since the world is so much being bombarded by energy now, we are in a period in which we would have to endure endless psychic attacks.

energy can be used for either means.

I would say that the psychic attacks would be less pronounced due to the 3d vibrations waning to a point of being nil in a short period of time.

Since these attacks occur against 3d vibrations (also 2d influence it seems), these should become less or not effective. Moreover, the increase in green ray manifestations (outward) of the planetary sphere will conflict with these attacks.

However, it is important to not to bring/attract negativity since increase in green ray potentially could allow negative manifestations for a short period. However, at this point this could not even be an issue anymore.

---

according to what you have dug out in the first 2 threads, apparently all else than the 3-4d entities will need to bite the dust soon.

And then what happens to the hybrid population left behind post-harvest?

There are hidden/underground cities built by the 6d group that was working in South America.

Also contact with the Confederation won't infringe free will since there is memory (no veil).

[native]

It appears that sessions 62 - 64 occurred during this period of intense solar activity. There is also a Book V fragment from that time. I haven't looked into it any further at this point, as I have an appointment coming in...

Interesting.

[Tenet Nosce]

It appears that sessions 62 - 64 occurred during this period of intense solar activity. There is also a Book V fragment from that time. I haven't looked into it any further at this point, as I have an appointment coming in...

Interesting.

Yes, quite. Turns out the Book V session is exactly about Carla's arthritis, the physical limitations of disease, and an inquiry as to whether her kidney problem was originally caused by psychic attack!

The Law of One, Book V, Session 63, Fragment 35

July 18, 1981

Jim: Carla’s arthritis began just after her kidneys failed when she was thirteen years old. In her childhood she had the very strong desire to be of service to others, but after many difficult experiences as a child unable to fit well anywhere she felt so sure that she would never be able to really be of service that by the age of thirteen she prayed that she might die. When her kidney failure six months later provided her with an avenue for such an exit from the incarnation, her near-death experience was of the nature where she was told that she could go on if she chose to but that her work was not done. She immediately chose to return to this life, now feeling that there was indeed service to be provided, and the juvenile rheumatoid arthritis set in immediately.

You can also see here how the efforts of negative entities intensified the choice to die that she had made of free will, but by that same free will there was no force that could hinder her return to service once she had made that choice.

Carla: The concept of limitation, especially in the form of physical disease, being a benign thing can be disturbing to think upon at first. I asked myself why in heaven’s name would I choose this particular condition? For it is as cunning in how it limits me as it could be. Although the rheumatoid disease has altered each joint in my body, it has focused on my hands, wrists and shoulders and back. I simply cannot do anything physical for too long a period, including typing at this very computer’s keyboard. I cannot pick up heavy things, or do heavy cleaning around the house. In general, I must watch how long I work at anything, for I cannot do a good day’s work and expect to rise the next day feeling well. I simply must write a lot of rest into the schedule. Any time I do overstep these unseen limitations, I reap the reward of having lots of quiet time while I recuperate.

Through the years, therefore, I have become very able to live in a world that is retired to the point of being a hermit’s way. Even in the depths of illness, in the early ’90’s, I was still given work to do, in the channeling, and in correspondence with a wide variety of students, counsel-ees and friends. My voice, because it hurt to produce a tone, was faint, but my thoughts still flew with wings, and there was immense satisfaction in continuing to serve.

It has always been difficult for me to take things lightly. I am always the one so intensely riveted on whatever I am doing that there’s no possibility of my being “cool.” Forget it! So Ra’s telling me I needed to reserve energy for myself during sessions did not sit well. However, given the way I was physically wasting away, I realized I would have to learn how to do that. I have come to appreciate this lesson greatly, and so pass the advice on to each who sees himself in these words. It is a worthwhile thing to preserve the physical shell; indeed, it is the kind of loving act that teaches as it aids.

Session 63, July 18, 1981

Questioner: Was the original problem with the kidneys some 25 years ago caused by psychic attack?

Ra: I am Ra. This is only partially correct. There were psychic attack components to the death of this body at that space/time. However, the guiding vibratory complex in this event was the will of the instrument. This instrument desired to leave this plane of existence as it did not feel it could be of service.

So... why was Carla being attacked way back in 1956, before the Ra contact had ever even been conceived? The attack seems to have been made with specific foreknowledge to the situation that would unfold in 1981, as documented here.

Questioner: You are saying then that the instrument itself created the kidney problem at that time?

Ra: I am Ra. The instrument’s desire to leave this density lowered the defenses of an already predisposed weak body complex, and an allergic reaction was so intensified as to cause the complications which distorted the body complex towards unviability. The will of the instrument, when it found that there was indeed work to be done in service, was again the guiding factor or complex of vibratory patterns which kept the body complex from surrendering to dissolution of the ties which cause the vitality of life.

Am I completely delusional? Or is this beyond coincidence?

You can also see here how the efforts of negative entities intensified the choice to die that she had made of free will, but by that same free will there was no force that could hinder her return to service once she had made that choice.

Just wanted to pluck that one out for highlight, in case it was scrolled past the first time.

[native]

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Tenet Nosce]

according to what you have dug out in the first 2 threads, apparently all else than the 3-4d entities will need to bite the dust soon.

And then what happens to the hybrid population left behind post-harvest?

that is a good question.

Have you seen The Quickening? I am watching it for the first time right now, and it is talking about this very idea! Another "Netflix coincidence". I mean, really it is getting too bizarre.

[unity100]

according to what you have dug out in the first 2 threads, apparently all else than the 3-4d entities will need to bite the dust soon.

And then what happens to the hybrid population left behind post-harvest?

that is a good question.

Have you seen The Quickening? I am watching it for the first time right now, and it is talking about this very idea! Another "Netflix coincidence". I mean, really it is getting too bizarre.

if that is highlander ii, i dont know what to respond.

[Tenet Nosce]

if that is highlander ii, i dont know what to respond.

LOL... no this:

http://awakeningasone.com/

I was wrong, it wasn't on Netflix. I just saw it for the first time myself, after just hearing about it a couple of hours ago.

It ends with a quote:

The harvest is Great,
yet the harvesters are few.

Beeseech ye, then the Lord,
to send more harvesters
to the harvest.

- the bodhisattva Issa

:exclamation:

[unity100]

no i havent watched that.

[βαθμιαίος]

There is a section in The Tarot: history, symbolism, and divination which describes the major arcana as "three groups of seven" in the Tarot of Marseilles, which is generally thought to have originated in the 15th century, although that particular term is a late 19th century creation. This system was further elaborated in the late 18th century by Comte de Mellet, who did in fact attribute it to the Egyptians although he had no historical basis for saying so.

I scanned those links briefly and didn't see anything connecting the groups of seven to mind, body, and spirit.

Interestingly, this ties back into The Archetypes - Potentiator of the Spirit where I asked you for a reference on Zain.

I missed that question. I don't know anything about Zain, but the organization he founded has a website here: http://www.light.org/

So... why was Carla being attacked way back in 1956, before the Ra contact had ever even been conceived? The attack seems to have been made with specific foreknowledge to the situation that would unfold in 1981, as documented here.

That seems like a stretch. Ra stated that wanderers are high-priority targets for Orion (16.53). If a wanderer is having negative thoughts, Orion entities seek to amplify them.

I don't know for sure, but I do think that I have had some experience with 5D/neg entities- and let me tell you that they are not in the least perturbed by white candles. Nor does invoking the name of "Jesus Christ" send them off whimpering to their master in defeat. Such contrivances are amusing to 5D entities.

The only reason that the protection rituals had ANY effect was because of the effect they had on Carla's mental/emotional state to the degree that they reduced fear and doubt. If Carla wanted to create a ritual using a rotten banana peel and an empty bottle of Jack Daniels, while reciting the theme song to Cheers, she could have done that, and it would have worked just as well if such a ritual was acceptable to her subconscious.

What is perhaps MORE important is that there is no such thing as an impervious protection ritual. The very idea of a ritual implies a certain amount of energy that is draining to 4D/neg, and which can be utilized by 5D/neg. ANY type of invocation creates an opportunity for attack.

This is also quite different from my understanding, which is that the circle of one that Don and Jim walked did, in fact, create a barrier through which no thought form could pass. On at least one occasion (session 62), when the circle was imperfectly walked, a thought form did penetrate the circle and began to attack Carla's kidneys and would have killed her had Ra not been able to instruct Don and Jim to rewalk the circle. This had nothing to do with Carla's subconscious.

[Tenet Nosce]

I scanned those links briefly and didn't see anything connecting the groups of seven to mind, body, and spirit.

This particular reference attributes them to Plato's theory of "three parts of the soul": there is the "soul of appetite" (the body), the "soul of reason" (the mind), and the "soul of will" (the spirit). It was right there in the second page and highlighted. But believe what you will, I have offered the information but have no need to defend it.

That seems like a stretch. Ra stated that wanderers are high-priority targets for Orion (16.53).

What is so "stretchy" about higher order entities moving back and forth in time according to our perception?

This is also quite different from my understanding, which is that the circle of one that Don and Jim walked did, in fact, create a barrier through which no thought form could pass.

What is the basis for this understanding? How does "no thought form pass" when there are people within the circle, thinking?

On at least one occasion (session 62), when the circle was imperfectly walked, a thought form did penetrate the circle and began to attack Carla's kidneys and would have killed her had Ra not been able to instruct Don and Jim to rewalk the circle.

I see. You are talking about protection against a negative entity physically entering Carla's body and wreaking havoc, or death. unity100 also equated "psychic attack" with an direct attempt on one's life. This is not what I am talking about.

If a wanderer is having negative thoughts, Orion entities seek to amplify them.

This is what I am talking about. What terminology would you use to describe an attempt by an Orion entity to amplify negative thoughts? If not "psychic attack" or "negative greeting", then...?

This had nothing to do with Carla's subconscious.

Well that is quite a sweeping statement, and more than a bit incredulous. That anybody involved in a magical working leaves their entire subconscious mind "at the door" once the circle closes seems a little over the top to me. Can you see why this would be a challenging idea for one to accept- especially on faith?

At the very least, we know that Carla's physical body was present. That means all of her DNA, including whatever personal or collective memories are stored there, and various energetic imbalances (causing pain for example) that are sourced in the subconscious mind. In addition, we have present any sort of effects on the body caused by ambient energy and environment, not the least of which being extreme solar activity during the session.

[native]

Here are my latest thoughts. I have been thinking about the channeling process and how Ra takes the place of Carla's yellow ray body. Some good points have been made as to if a negative entity could have such control over the instrument and I would have to agree.

It seems that throughout the group sessions, there was a fourth-density entity attempting to affect the group's harmony in their daily lives which has been stated many ways. And if you search 'companion', it became increasingly so that the group came under psychic greetings by the fifth density entity on a regular basis. Ra even states how the entity is 'present' at this space/time nexus during several workings. What that means as far as what can be accomplished by the entity, I don't know. But the entity certainly had to be lurking waiting for errors to be made in the rituals like how it penetrated the circle of light.

Don is a part of the channel as much as the other two. Commentary from the group has said he was the one who ultimately made the decisions on what questions to ask, and the group trusted him in this. After repeated warnings, Don would occasionally delve into transitory topics with genuine intent. He was clearly being tempted, and we know for a fact that negative entities work to detune positive channels by getting them to ask specific transitory questions.

My latest thoughts take all this into consideration, and it seems that when Ra makes warnings to stay away from dates and transitory information, they are speaking in a general sense about the tempting of the negative entities, not as if the entity is trying to take over the channel. The entity was simply trying to get Don to ask questions which detune the channel. However, I remain adamant about the purity of the information sought, it's effect on the window phenomenon/quarantine in regards to balancing information requested, which ultimately affects the clarity of Ra's responses. Ra must abide by free will, and when specific information is requested, they must lack some amount of clarity so that the answer can be interpreted both ways because Don is falling prey to the negative temptations. However, if you take into account all of Ra's warnings their answers become clear.

67.7 The normal gambit of such fourth-density attack is the tempting of the entity or group of entities away from total polarization towards service-to-others and toward the aggrandizement of self or of social organizations with which the self identifies. In the case of this particular group each was given a full range of temptations to cease being of service to each other and to the One Infinite Creator. Each entity declined these choices and instead continued with no significant deviation from the desire for a purely other-self service orientation. At this point one of the fifth-density entities over-seeing such detuning processes determined that it would be necessary to terminate the group by what you might call magical means, as you understand ritual magic. We have previously discussed the potential for the removal of one of this group by such attack and have noted that by far the most vulnerable is the instrument due to its pre-incarnative physical complex distortions.

[βαθμιαίος]

This particular reference attributes them to Plato's theory of "three parts of the soul": there is the "soul of appetite" (the body), the "soul of reason" (the mind), and the "soul of will" (the spirit). It was right there in the second page and highlighted. But believe what you will, I have offered the information but have no need to defend it.

I saw the soul of appetite, etc, but didn't make the connection to body, mind, and spirit. I don't have time to read that book now. Does it link the first seven cards to mind, the second to body, and the third to spirit?

Other unique (to my knowledge) aspects of Ra's discussion of the archetypes are the notions of matrix, potentiator, etc and the suggestion that cards 1, 8, and 15; 2, 9, and 16; etc. are linked in an architectural way.

What is so "stretchy" about higher order entities moving back and forth in time according to our perception?

It's a stretch in that it's not necessary. As a wanderer, Carla was already a target.

What is the basis for this understanding? How does "no thought form pass" when there are people within the circle, thinking?

Pass from outside the circle to inside it. The phrase used in the ritual was "Let no thought-form enter the circle we have walked about this instrument, for the Law is One."

What terminology would you use to describe an attempt by an Orion entity to amplify negative thoughts? If not "psychic attack" or "negative greeting", then...?

I'm not disagreeing that Carla came under psychic attack when she was thirteen. I don't think the reason she came under attack was necessarily that she was going to be the channel for the Ra contact 25 years later.

That anybody involved in a magical working leaves their entire subconscious mind "at the door" once the circle closes seems a little over the top to me. Can you see why this would be a challenging idea for one to accept- especially on faith?

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the attack on Carla in session 62 was an attack by an external source and occurred when she was not present in her body. It was made possible by a misstep in the walking of the circle. You had said that the ritual was only effective to the extent that it reduced Carla's fear and was acceptable to her subconscious. I don't think that's the case.

[Tenet Nosce]

I saw the soul of appetite, etc, but didn't make the connection to body, mind, and spirit. I don't have time to read that book now. Does it link the first seven cards to mind, the second to body, and the third to spirit?

You don't need to read the entire book, just the section that I linked for you consisting of four paragraphs. It is kind of amusing that you would specifically ask for a reference, and then declare that you have no time to read it.

Other unique (to my knowledge) aspects of Ra's discussion of the archetypes are the notions of matrix, potentiator, etc and the suggestion that cards 1, 8, and 15; 2, 9, and 16; etc. are linked in an architectural way.

I'm not sure off the top of my head if that exact terminology was previously used to describe the three tiers. According to comte de Mellet, they are equated to the three historical ages: gold, silver, iron. But yes, in terms of specifically linking (I, VIII, XV), (II, IX, XVI), etc. this was already well-established in the occult circles well before the Ra contact in 1981.

It's a stretch in that it's not necessary. As a wanderer, Carla was already a target.

So... Carla is a wanderer... meaning that she has previously graduated from the 3D cycle of time... moved on to 4D or 5D as the case may be, CAME BACK to this 3D reality "from the future" in order to provide a specific form of service- namely channeling information from an entity that is largely responsible for the creation of the entire human race, as we know it....

BUT... it would not be "necessary" for a negative being, in seeing that Carla was the one who chose to channel Ra, to scan backwards in time for additional windows of attack that could cause "future" depolarization? I really am not following your thought process here. We seem to have very different understandings of how higher order negative beings operate.

Pass from outside the circle to inside it.

Right, got it. Now what about the mental/emotional state of the entities already inside the circle? Also, I would suggest to attempt to wrap your mind around what a "circle" means to a 5D entity.

The phrase used in the ritual was "Let no thought-form enter the circle we have walked about this instrument, for the Law is One."

So the entire basis for believing that the ritual was 100% effective, is simply this sentence? I mean 100% effective against negative interference, not 100% effective of an overt takeover of Carla's body, as I previously replied. In other words, do you believe that a negative entity "outside" the circle could have no effect, whatsoever, on what is going on "inside" the circle?

I'm not disagreeing that Carla came under psychic attack when she was thirteen. I don't think the reason she came under attack was necessarily that she was going to be the channel for the Ra contact 25 years later.

Not necessarily, but why not? Also what is the barrier to a 5D entity, once having observed Carla channeling Ra in 1981, to have scanned backwards in time and make an attempt to "take her out" earlier in the game? Even if such an attempt failed, it could still have left a strong imprint of fear and doubt, which was later capitalized upon during the Ra contact.

This sounds like exactly the thought process of a negative 5D entity to me.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the attack on Carla in session 62 was an attack by an external source and occurred when she was not present in her body. It was made possible by a misstep in the walking of the circle. You had said that the ritual was only effective to the extent that it reduced Carla's fear and was acceptable to her subconscious. I don't think that's the case.

What I am attempting to say is that, if the Upanishads were used instead of the Bible, and if one of Rumi's poems was used instead of the prayer of St. Francis, they would have worked just as well, if such symbols were acceptable to Carla's subconscious.

[βαθμιαίος]

You don't need to read the entire book, just the section that I linked for you consisting of four paragraphs. It is kind of amusing that you would specifically ask for a reference, and then declare that you have no time to read it.

I read those paragraphs (several times) and the next few, too. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how they support your claim that everything Ra gave about the archetypes was already available before 1981. I was thinking that if I read the rest of the book I might find what you're referring to, but after reading forward a few more pages I abandoned that effort.

So the entire basis for believing that the ritual was 100% effective, is simply this sentence? I mean 100% effective against negative interference, not 100% effective of an overt takeover of Carla's body, as I previously replied. In other words, do you believe that a negative entity "outside" the circle could have no effect, whatsoever, on what is going on "inside" the circle?

Yes, I do, if by "have no effect" you mean that the negative entity was unable to send thought forms into the circle during the working. However, any inroads the negative entity might have made into Jim or (especially) Don's consciousness or subconsciousness before the session could, of course, affect the session.

What I am attempting to say is that, if the Upanishads were used instead of the Bible, and if one of Rumi's poems was used instead of the prayer of St. Francis, they would have worked just as well, if such symbols were acceptable to Carla's subconscious.

I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about the symbols (bible, candle, incense) that the group used to reassure Carla. I agree with you that if the Upanishads were symbolically meaningful to Carla then they would have worked just as well to reassure her. But I'm talking about what protected her, and I don't understand the symbols to be what protected Carla -- as I understand it, the protection was provided by Don and Jim walking the circle of one.

As to whether Carla was attacked when she was thirteen because she was going to channel Ra -- who knows? I'm just invoking Occam's Razor and suggesting that she would probably have been attacked no matter what her future held, given that, as a wanderer, she was a high-priority target.

[native]

Yes, I do, if by "have no effect" you mean that the negative entity was unable to send thought forms into the circle during the working. However, any inroads the negative entity might have made into Jim or (especially) Don's consciousness or subconsciousness before the session could, of course, affect the session.

This is what my opinion has evolved into. Don must have been receiving temptation and manipulation before the sessions, and this is what Ra was referring to allegorically within the sessions themselves, and also how the group's sessions will be taken out of context in the future (our conversations now).

[unity100]

It's a stretch in that it's not necessary. As a wanderer, Carla was already a target.

So... Carla is a wanderer... meaning that she has previously graduated from the 3D cycle of time... moved on to 4D or 5D as the case may be, CAME BACK to this 3D reality "from the future" in order to provide a specific form of service- namely channeling information from an entity that is largely responsible for the creation of the entire human race, as we know it....

you dont become a 'future entity' by moving into 5d. no such thing exists. this is something that you have mistakenly concluded, and you are making a lot of false assumptions over it.

ra has graduated from venus 3d 4 billion years ago. it is NOT in 'our' future. the continuum of this planet, is currently 2011 A.D. with our timing.

a wanderer from Ra incarnating on this planet does not make that wanderer coming from 'our future'. only if that wanderer incarnated to venus's 3d back 4 billion years ago, that would be something of the sort of 'coming from future'.

however it is not possible apparently, since it would break the continuum. the entity was 3d in that point in time. it cannot just go back in time and reincarnate into that nexus as a 6d entity. this happens only in our sci-fi movies.

not being a part of time does not mean that you can break all continuum(s). if you did, then the continuum(s) would be different. and there would be no such thing as a 'mistake to be balanced'. maldek wouldnt get destroyed, and many many more.

again,

you have incorrectly concluded that an entity that is in 5d or 6d is an entity that is in 'future', and that entity going to a 3d locality makes it 'coming from future'.

not to mention that no such thing like 'not being part of time' exists for 5d entities.

Right, got it. Now what about the mental/emotional state of the entities already inside the circle? Also, I would suggest to attempt to wrap your mind around what a "circle" means to a 5D entity.

a circle means to a 5d entity what it means to a thought form. it is an impenetrable circle if it was made an impenetrable circle.

a thought form is something stronger than a thought. its focus and concentration is higher. it is basically an 'entity' compared to thought. if a thought form cannot pass a barrier, the thoughts of the same kind also wont be able to pass.

Not necessarily, but why not? Also what is the barrier to a 5D entity, once having observed Carla channeling Ra in 1981, to have scanned backwards in time and make an attempt to "take her out" earlier in the game? Even if such an attempt failed, it could still have left a strong imprint of fear and doubt, which was later capitalized upon during the Ra contact.

there is no such thing as 'going back in time' as a 5d entity. there is a reason why reviews are made in indigo body in 6d time/space. this is the locus point that has access to OBSERVING past and future, due to the time abundance of time/space.

..............

so far you are making grand conclusions based on holywood science fiction - not the usable material at hand or general spiritualism.

---

It's a stretch in that it's not necessary. As a wanderer, Carla was already a target.

So... Carla is a wanderer... meaning that she has previously graduated from the 3D cycle of time... moved on to 4D or 5D as the case may be, CAME BACK to this 3D reality "from the future" in order to provide a specific form of service- namely channeling information from an entity that is largely responsible for the creation of the entire human race, as we know it....

you dont become a 'future entity' by moving into 5d. no such thing exists. this is something that you have mistakenly concluded, and you are making a lot of false assumptions over it.

ra has graduated from venus 3d 4 billion years ago. it is NOT in 'our' future. the continuum of this planet, is currently 2011 A.D. with our timing. ra is currently at 6d, at a point that is congruent with our own nexus, even if it is nearing 7d 'timelessness' and is not something that could be accurately represented with our measurements. just like how the measurements to tell where rasputin et all incarnated currently are rather meaningless since they are in a different dimension and time flows differently - BUT, they are at current nexus, incarnated in those places. not 'were incarnated' or 'going to be incarnated' at the same time or anything like that.


a wanderer from Ra incarnating on this planet does not make that wanderer coming from 'our future'. only if that wanderer incarnated to venus's 3d back 4 billion years ago, that would be something of the sort of 'coming from future'.

however it is not possible apparently, since it would break the continuum. the entity was 3d in that point in time. it cannot just go back in time and reincarnate into that nexus as a 6d entity. this happens only in our sci-fi movies.

not being a part of time does not mean that you can break all continuum(s). if you did, then the continuum(s) would be different. and there would be no such thing as a 'mistake to be balanced'. maldek wouldnt get destroyed, and many many more.

again,

you have incorrectly concluded that an entity that is in 5d or 6d is an entity that is in 'future', and that entity going to a 3d locality makes it 'coming from future'.

not to mention that no such thing like 'not being part of time' exists for 5d entities.

Right, got it. Now what about the mental/emotional state of the entities already inside the circle? Also, I would suggest to attempt to wrap your mind around what a "circle" means to a 5D entity.

a circle means to a 5d entity what it means to a thought form. it is an impenetrable circle if it was made an impenetrable circle.

a thought form is something stronger than a thought. its focus and concentration is higher. it is basically an 'entity' compared to thought. if a thought form cannot pass a barrier, the thoughts of the same kind also wont be able to pass.

Not necessarily, but why not? Also what is the barrier to a 5D entity, once having observed Carla channeling Ra in 1981, to have scanned backwards in time and make an attempt to "take her out" earlier in the game? Even if such an attempt failed, it could still have left a strong imprint of fear and doubt, which was later capitalized upon during the Ra contact.

there is no such thing as 'going back in time' as a 5d entity. there is a reason why reviews are made in indigo body in 6d time/space. this is the locus point that has access to OBSERVING past and future, due to the time abundance of time/space.

..............

so far you are making grand conclusions based on holywood science fiction - not the usable material at hand or general spiritualism.

[Tenet Nosce]

I read those paragraphs (several times) and the next few, too. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how they support your claim that everything Ra gave about the archetypes was already available before 1981. I was thinking that if I read the rest of the book I might find what you're referring to, but after reading forward a few more pages I abandoned that effort.

OK, no worries. I will admit it has been a while since I looked at the archetype material in detail. My use of the phrase "not one stitch" was perhaps a little rambunctious. The main idea I was attempting to convey is that, upon my first read through of the Ra material in 1994/1995, the archetype section did not jump out at me as being too different from anything else I had previously read on tarot. At any rate, it is just a difference of opinion, and not really a critical point.

What -IS- of great significance in my mind, is that you "just happened" to ask for more information, upon which my investigation "just happened" to turn up references to the same individuals and concepts I have been talking about in other threads.

As a seeker, when I observe these "coincidences" I take that as a signal that I am on the "right track". So for me to be "completely wrong" here would signify a fundamental malfunction, or outright hijacking, of my internal guidance system. Which is a little much for me to accept, I will admit.

However, any inroads the negative entity might have made into Jim or (especially) Don's consciousness or subconsciousness before the session could, of course, affect the session.

This is pretty much the extent of what I have been saying, although now I more clearly see the source of the confusion.

I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about the symbols (bible, candle, incense) that the group used to reassure Carla. I agree with you that if the Upanishads were symbolically meaningful to Carla then they would have worked just as well to reassure her. But I'm talking about what protected her, and I don't understand the symbols to be what protected Carla -- as I understand it, the protection was provided by Don and Jim walking the circle of one.

Yes, I think we have been talking about two different things. If "walking the circle of one" = protection = preventing a negative entity from taking over Carla's body, then I see no conflict in our points of view.

As to whether Carla was attacked when she was thirteen because she was going to channel Ra -- who knows? I'm just invoking Occam's Razor and suggesting that she would probably have been attacked no matter what her future held, given that, as a wanderer, she was a high-priority target.

You are right, who knows? However you have invoked Occam's Razor without taking into account all of the facts. One being that Icaro proposed a theory here in this forum, which doesn't offend my sensibilities as much as it appears to bother others. Next, for "some reason", I was inspired to look for any documentation of solar activity during the sessions Icaro pointed out. In fact, I DID find evidence. And THEN when I followed up on the evidence, I found that the Book V material originating from that time period SPECIFICALLY DISCUSSES psychic attack, and the kidney issue from Carla's past.

So, in this case, invoking Occam's Razor relegates everything else I described above to "mere coincidence". Are you saying that all of these "coincidences" are meaningless, according to your assessment?

[Monica]

I'm really enjoying this discussion. Very stimulating and thought-provoking. Thanks to all the participants!