The Detuning of Session 17 and Ra's True Intentions Regarding 2011 - Part II

[zenmaster]

Cayce was accessing the akashic records, the 'racial mind' which is also limited by what had been made conscious by the earth+inhabitant sub-logos system, up to that point. My understanding is that anyone can do this with blue-ray or higher activated, although the form of access will be different for each person.

akhasic records is not racial mind. racial mind does not reside in 7th density. Ra told that cayce was reaching to the totality of the planet in future.

"Therefore, although this Akashic, planetary, or racial mind is indeed a root of mind it may be seen in sharp differentiation from the deeper roots of mind which are not a function of altering memory, if you will."

There is a non-hampered view from the current experience. There is the aid of the 'higher self' - one's 'totality' which suggests balance, but the bias on how to achieve that balance comes from the current outlook. The more one makes conscious, the more that one has to work with - 'probability vortices' become practical guides at some point during 3rd density, even to the point of seeing actions and consequences, and the 3rd density entity can choose appropriate further working.

the totality is the guardian of that information, actually any kind of information that can be accessed.

My point is that the information only exists in meaningful or discernible form as may be impressed or reflected upon current consciousness.

[unity100]

Cayce was accessing the akashic records, the 'racial mind' which is also limited by what had been made conscious by the earth+inhabitant sub-logos system, up to that point. My understanding is that anyone can do this with blue-ray or higher activated, although the form of access will be different for each person.

akhasic records is not racial mind. racial mind does not reside in 7th density. Ra told that cayce was reaching to the totality of the planet in future.

"Therefore, although this Akashic, planetary, or racial mind is indeed a root of mind it may be seen in sharp differentiation from the deeper roots of mind which are not a function of altering memory, if you will."

notice the difference in between 'mind' and 'record'. akhasic records, represent the entire story of a given entity from start to its end, with all the potential paths it traveled.

My point is that the information only exists in meaningful or discernible form as may be impressed or reflected upon current consciousness.

yes. and there is nothing barring the totality from allowing that information to seep to conscious mind if the conscious mind is able to perceive it and it would be meaningful for progression of the entity.

[zenmaster]

Cayce was accessing the akashic records, the 'racial mind' which is also limited by what had been made conscious by the earth+inhabitant sub-logos system, up to that point. My understanding is that anyone can do this with blue-ray or higher activated, although the form of access will be different for each person.

akhasic records is not racial mind. racial mind does not reside in 7th density. Ra told that cayce was reaching to the totality of the planet in future.

"Therefore, although this Akashic, planetary, or racial mind is indeed a root of mind it may be seen in sharp differentiation from the deeper roots of mind which are not a function of altering memory, if you will."

notice the difference in between 'mind' and 'record'. akhasic records, represent the entire story of a given entity from start to its end, with all the potential paths it traveled.

Notice it because? I've read Cayce and understand the difference between mind and record. Your 'potential paths' idea highly questionable since you can't record what has not been created. What Cayce was viewing was basically a step below our personal unconscious, which is the racial mind sustained by the earth itself. This has been called Noosphere and the Collective Unconscious. It's the same concept. It's a 'mind principle', so yes it is what we refer to as memory - hence 'record' or repository. It evolves as consciousness here evolves. Accessing it consciously requires a transpersonal awareness and the style and depth of interface, and character of contents, will be different for each person. It is an ontologically distinct consciousness but part of the local supporting yellow-ray mind and eventually be the supporting green-ray mind.

[Joseph326]

Well, if I were a sixth- density entity seeking to serve the Creator by expanding its understanding of it(my)self, knowing that polarity is a powerful tool for expansion, realizing that all paths are one and there are no missteps, existing as the sum of every lifetime of an entire race, seeing the balance within Creation at every moment, appreciating the potential for growth that is inherent in every possible choice, and loving every other entity as it is my equal/self/creator/reflection/creation/etc., then I would be pretty darn proud of how successfully expansive this channeling has proven to be, not only in this space/time but in every possible outcome. For everyone ever involved with it in any way has added additional possibilities and depth to the learning and teaching intended. Does not the One in its purest form contain every polarity in balance? If a description was to be given of the Law of One to those in the third density, where choice is the method of spiritual growth, would it not be advantageous for the material to encourage as many possible interpretations as possible? It is the seeker's individual task to choose what thought to believe, what feeling to follow, and what to take from another's words. Truth is, the truth is whatever you believe it to be

[unity100]

Cayce was accessing the akashic records, the 'racial mind' which is also limited by what had been made conscious by the earth+inhabitant sub-logos system, up to that point. My understanding is that anyone can do this with blue-ray or higher activated, although the form of access will be different for each person.

akhasic records is not racial mind. racial mind does not reside in 7th density. Ra told that cayce was reaching to the totality of the planet in future.

"Therefore, although this Akashic, planetary, or racial mind is indeed a root of mind it may be seen in sharp differentiation from the deeper roots of mind which are not a function of altering memory, if you will."

notice the difference in between 'mind' and 'record'. akhasic records, represent the entire story of a given entity from start to its end, with all the potential paths it traveled.

Notice it because? I've read Cayce and understand the difference between mind and record. Your 'potential paths' idea highly questionable since you can't record what has not been created.

that would be incorrect. you are forgetting the simultaneous multiple existences of an entity throughout parallel universes. all of these potential paths combine in 7d, where you can see their entire picture.

[zenmaster]

the simultaneous multiple existences of an entity throughout parallel universes. all of these potential paths combine in 7d, where you can see their entire picture.

If you say so.

[Raman]

Parallel existence exists in 3d. It seems 4d 5d beginning of 6d since no veil this would not be possible unless part of specific properties I am not aware of are there (in 4d, for example).

Then, at least in mid 6d the higher self is able to program multiple parallel existences if necessary for its 3d entity.

So we have a situation in which evolution started form above and once a return occurs to mid 6d, then entity (now higher self) is able to program balance using 3d and parallel existences if necessary.

[native]

Does not the One in its purest form contain every polarity in balance? If a description was to be given of the Law of One to those in the third density, where choice is the method of spiritual growth, would it not be advantageous for the material to encourage as many possible interpretations as possible? It is the seeker's individual task to choose what thought to believe, what feeling to follow, and what to take from another's words.

They certainly believe in free will.

Here's another thing to consider. Ra corrects dates of Orion and Confederation entry by one thousand years.

Does anyone feel relieved knowing that Orion entered in 3,600 and NOT 2,600..and the Confederation in 3,300 and NOT 2,300? I mean, I'm certainly glad that has been cleared up you know? Historical dates would have been detrimental to our knowledge of the Law of One *sarcasm* Do you see how Ra is asking you to reflect on how dates are irrelevant?

Or was the message...... "To concern yourself with dates regarding harvest is to have not listen to what we've been telling you. Not only in regards to staying away from history, and specificity, but we've already told you the harvest is occurring in several ways."

Ra knew 17.29 would cause controversy...

[Raman]

Does not the One in its purest form contain every polarity in balance? If a description was to be given of the Law of One to those in the third density, where choice is the method of spiritual growth, would it not be advantageous for the material to encourage as many possible interpretations as possible? It is the seeker's individual task to choose what thought to believe, what feeling to follow, and what to take from another's words.

They certainly believe in free will.

Here's another thing to consider. Ra corrects dates of Orion and Confederation entry by one thousand years.

Does anyone feel relieved knowing that Orion entered in 3,600 and NOT 2,600..and the Confederation in 3,300 and NOT 2,300? I mean, I'm certainly glad that has been cleared up you know? Historical dates would have been detrimental to our knowledge of the Law of One *sarcasm*

Or was the message...... "To concern yourself with dates regarding harvest is to have not listen to what we've been telling you. Not only in regards to staying away from history, but we've already told you the harvest is occurring in several ways."

Ra knew 17.29 would cause controversy...

Funny thing were becoming aware/conscious of this (really) in 2011...

[native]

The argument seems to be that Ra means exactly what they say, right? Someone put forth a sufficient argument as to how "The harvest is now" ..can mean anything else beside direct interpretation, without using other quotes. Or does one require to use other quotes to support a bias, and interpret those quotes incorrectly?

If 2011 is....."an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest." Aren't the two statements one in the same? That is unless you take the second one out of context. Because if the harvest is occurring now, 2011 surely is an appropriate nexus for harvest. Right? Anyone? Think.

[Tenet Nosce]

(continued...)

you can see this as an entity incarnating into a 3d body without going through the veil.

I could see it that way, but it may not be that way. And besides people have wildly different ideas about what the process of "incarnating" really involves.

don was not talking to an entity channeled by Carla. don was talking to Ra.

Don was talking to Ra... through Carla. This doesn't preclude the possibility of transient interference with the communication.

as you can see from various incidents like the 'tape incident' in which Ra had gone back in time in order to see what was wrong with the tape, the capacities of the entity Ra in that body remain the same as they are when they are in their original home environment - in regard to time/space.

You're continuing to build upon a characterization of the channeling process that may not be accurate. It may in fact be correct. But I don't know of any standard by which to evaluate these statements.

Speaking of "tape incidents" I will refer back again to the incident in Session One, where Don was asking about earth changes, and the tape gets flipped. Then Ra says nevermind about the earth changes, we are more concerned with harvest. What I was trying to get at this is that [tape gets flipped] is PART of the material, and might be significant.

I can't tell you how many times I have been yammering on in this very forum, decide to watch something on Netflix, and lo and behold what I am watching ties in directly with what I was just posting about. The latest example was in Share your vision for the harvest where my partner decides to put Flatliners on, then she promptly falls asleep. All of a sudden I am hearing a dialogue that exactly mimics the dynamics that are going on in the thread.

I mean... how does THAT happen? We need concepts like 5D/6D just to even attempt to explain it. 4D doesn't even cut it in these cases. What this implies is that the consciousness of a being fully actualized at the 6D level must be WAY beyond even what we can begin to conceive.

therefore, a negative entity of a mere 5th order, 'corrupting' the Ra entity and causing it to give a negatively oriented or confused answer, is outright ridiculous.

I think what is being said here is that a 5D entity either interfered with Carla's unconscious state, Don's conscious state, or both. Which is not ridiculous, and is in fact not only possible, but exactly correct, according to Ra's words.

that would mean that Ra would be corruptible even in their home vibration, and even in their home state.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that Ra "screwed up" several times throughout earth's history, with all sorts of unexpected ramifications and unforeseen consequences. So yes, we must assume that- even at Ra's level- things are to a degree unknown and unpredictable. In fact, we specifically know that Ra's continued interaction with us here in 3D is directly tied to their attempt to attain their own next level.

when you propose or accept this nonsense, then you totally let go of any information given in the book.

Yes, this would call many things into question. Since we don't have recordings of PET scans or EEGs of Don and Carla during the sessions, we really have no way of knowing how deeply "out" Carla was, or what kind of emotional state Don was in when he asked the questions, etc.

not only that, you also let go of the orders of progress in regard to this octave , from 5th to late 6th at least.

Eh? I am not following you in this statement.

Wrote:third, if a contact became corrupted, the original entity would not stay there continuing channeling. because then they would be aiding proliferation of negative information with their positive information.

Not true. They come when they are called. The calling also draws the attention of the Orion group. This is all discussed in the material. Honestly, I am having a hard time seeing how one can accept that the group was under attack during many of the sessions, but that somehow the material emerged completely unscathed.

I don't know for sure, but I do think that I have had some experience with 5D/neg entities- and let me tell you that they are not in the least perturbed by white candles. Nor does invoking the name of "Jesus Christ" send them off whimpering to their master in defeat. Such contrivances are amusing to 5D entities.

The only reason that the protection rituals had ANY effect was because of the effect they had on Carla's mental/emotional state to the degree that they reduced fear and doubt. If Carla wanted to create a ritual using a rotten banana peel and an empty bottle of Jack Daniels, while reciting the theme song to Cheers, she could have done that, and it would have worked just as well if such a ritual was acceptable to her subconscious.

What is perhaps MORE important is that there is no such thing as an impervious protection ritual. The very idea of a ritual implies a certain amount of energy that is draining to 4D/neg, and which can be utilized by 5D/neg. ANY type of invocation creates an opportunity for attack.

What I have personally found to be a bit absurd is the idea that:

1. We KNOW that the group was under attack during much of the contact.
2. Don is dead, via suicide.
3. Carla still suffers from a debilitating health condition.
4. The material was redacted in multiple ways.
5. We can't even get a group of 10 people on an Internet forum 30 years later to agree upon what Ra was even talking about.

YET, we are expected to believe that somehow, the actual words of the material emerged 100% unscathed, and error free? You must admit the situation is tenuous, at best.

this is probably why there are continual affirmations and confirmations of group's purity and dedication of service by Ra in a repeated fashion. commending of purity of a compromised, corrupted group, would be outright stupid.

You seem to be conceiving of this as an either/or situation. There are many shades of "pure". And we are giving at least one example earlier in this thread about a man who was inspired by the Confederation to make some sort of free energy device, but then got influenced by the Orion group thus depolarizing his mission. Yet, in the end there was no real "harm done" due to the man's purity of intention.

So purity of intention does not 100% preclude manipulation. It just helps to reduce it.

if contact was compromised at that point, there would be an entity imitating Ra, and the information given would take on an increasingly corrupted form, continually concentrating on the 'transitory' information equating the given one and expanding on it incessantly.

Agreed. I think it is safe to say that Ra wasn't completely removed and replaced by a negative entity. The most we are talking about here is the possibility that a negative influence caused a "slip up" and/or that Ra, for some reason unbeknownst to us, allowed the "slip up" to pass.

one look to other compromised channeled material is enough to see how it develops from its start to its late stages. such a format, is not present here. the contact is consistent from start to end, in tone, manner, information focused on, approach, and depth. it doesnt vary. note how i am saying 'contact' and not the 'channel'. for :

Actually, yes it is. If you look at the material as a whole, there is a clear trend toward more transitory material as it goes on. In fact, as I have repeatedly pointed out ad nauseum, this trend was established right there in Session One. Ra offers to continue discourse on the Law of One. Don says, no thanks, tell us about the earth changes. "The tape gets flipped." Then Ra parlays the query about earth changes into harvest. And we're off to the races from there.

As you progress toward the end of the material it is dominated by discussion about the negative contact and the archetypes of the tarot. Which, I am sorry I am interested by the tarot just as much as the next guy, but I still don't understand why so much time was spent on this. There are so many countless works on the tarot and the archetypes, and frankly I didn't find one stitch of new information in any of those responses that couldn't be found in other books, or simply by meditating on the images on the cards themselves.

So, yes, there is a very clear trend in depolarization throughout the entire contact, and it begins only a few paragraphs into Session One. This is not to say that Ra was displaced by a negative entity. It IS to say that Ra's purpose in responding to the call was largely depolarized by a direct attack on the material.

Moreover, this attack appears to be extended into this very moment as we have a group of otherwise intelligent people attempting to understand this information, yet repeatedly get drawn into all manner of conflicts, side-arguments, and outright denial. Why all the confusion? Are we just idiots here? Or is something continuing to actively interfere with understanding the material?

fourth, the proposition of corruption of Ra ENTITY (as Carla was not even there at that point in time) for just two quotes someone has problems with, is exactly what it seems - biased denial. there is no deeper meaning in that. especially when the proposition is refused to be held for any other quote, but that one-two that contradicts with the person's perspective. it is ridiculous that this is even being discussed here at this point.

I'm sorry, but you appear to be in a bit of denial yourself. There appears to be no way to interpret the material that makes it 100% coherent. Moreover, you are continuing to build on the idea that Carla was somehow "completely removed" from the equation, despite the fact that her brain and vocal cords were being used during the channeling. Somehow, you want to attribute bias to all others- except for the channel herself.

We have:

Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest.

Either: Don was right, and harvest is a discrete event (from a 3D perspective) on or around 2011, and this is why Ra did not correct Don.

Or: Don was wrong, but for some REASON Ra DID NOT correct him. This is even more baffling, and begs for an explanation, especially in consideration of Ra's point blank comment in Session 14:

The harvest is now.

So, no matter how you slice it up, there is information that "should have" been corrected, but was not.

Also, I think it is appropriate to reiterate here that there is another ambiguity in the infamous 2011 harvest quote. I mentioned this before, but it was overlooked. "At this time" could just as well mean 1981 as it does 2011, in which case any conclusions we are drawing about those "not in incarnation" must be carefully reevaluated. So, here again, we have Ra letting something very ambiguous pass, ostensibly with FULL KNOWLEDGE that it carries the seed for grand confusion in the reader.

So here are the options I see:

1. Ra did not give the reply.
2. Ra DID give the reply, but Carla was under attack at the moment, thus the reply was not clear. Also explains why Ra did not make the correction at that time- if Carla was under attack then any attempt to correct the mistake would probably lead to even GREATER confusion.
3. Ra purposely DID NOT make a correction because they understood that a certain degree of ambiguity must be allowed to pass in order to maintain balance and for free will considerations.

[native]

2. Ra DID give the reply, but Carla was under attack at the moment, thus the reply was not clear. Also explains why Ra did not make the correction at that time- if Carla was under attack then any attempt to correct the mistake would probably lead to even GREATER confusion.

Yes..much like a pain flare can cause Ra to say Significator of the Body when they meant Mind.

3. Ra purposely DID NOT make a correction because they understood that a certain degree of ambiguity must be allowed to pass in order to maintain balance and for free will considerations.

I agree. I'm willing to acknowledge that there could be other explanations, but I maintain my position on harvest because of the philosophy that was given to us. Ra's reference to all the other sessions which include dates, talk about how Orion polluted their message. Ra could be figuratively saying at the beginning of the session, that people will succumb to fear, uncertainty, and confusion related to how we interpret Ra's words, which they explain in one way or another in all the sessions that are linked together. This certainly has been achieved. Right? We are constantly being pulled in one direction or another by both positive and negative catalyst.

If you embrace fear of death OR prophecy, you subject yourself to negative manipulation. Prophecy is how Orion manipulates. If there was no Mayan calendar, I have a hard time believing many of us would be arguing about 2011. If you're influenced by 2011, you must be influenced by prophecy in some small way, even if you don't know it.

To take two perceived contradicting statements and apply different meaning to each indicates subjective reasoning at work. We all do it..but Ra gave us plenty of advice to work with outside of subjectivity. But I don't even think the 2011 statement lacks totally in clarity, it's ambiguous at best, and in post #100 I explain why.

I'm willing to mold and grow my understanding, and consider other possibilities. Suppose Orion didn't influence the channel directly. The purity of the session was detuning, no doubt. Ra simply could be telling both Don and those who read the following, to consider the information you seek, to consider the emotions that negative entities work with, and to consider all the information in the sessions that these dates point to. It seems Don was unsure about the harvest at that point because he was still learning. He too was probably influenced by negative catalyst/concepts, much like we all are. Detuning certainly affects clarity..we can say that for sure because of the errors made.

Look at question 10.5 and the rest of the session where a specific date of 10, 821 was given. Ra is talking about the downfall of Atlantis, which was the result of Atlantis being pulled back towards the negative polarity.

Dates don't have meaning in the Ra material, but all the sessions that do have dates impart philosophy that illuminates how negative catalyst affects us.

That could have been the true message.

[Tenet Nosce]

as you know from the threads in which i had to switch my perspective regarding sudden/lengthy harvest, i have no qualms in changing my perspective with sufficient and valid information, in an instant.

And as you know, I have no such qualms either.

'ra is compromised because i dont like q/a 17.29' is not in my list that includes sufficient and valid information.

Yes, however that is not the reason I am taking Icaro's proposition under consideration. For I am not having a negative emotional reaction to 17.29, and would actually prefer that harvest is both swift, and immanent.

it is beyond waste that we are even discussing the personal bias of someone which strongly requires s/he deny a particular uncomfortable info.

I am one who is willing to sit with the uncomfortable information, in either case.

your assessments regarding harvest date and duration were sound and solid.

And they still may be. I am not wholesale abandoning my previous assessments. Despite the outcome of this conversation, we still have clear, documented evidence that somebody went to great lengths to encode the dates of 28 Oct 11 and 21 Dec 12 into monolithic architecture, calendar systems, and various mythologies. This evidence still stands.

no you cannot do that - you can see that in the earlier phases of this thread, when attempted, it came out in the form of instantly divining the purity of the questioner and the measure of negative influence.

A failed attempt does not imply impossibility.

there is no way that you can do these measurements, so that you could be able to measure the 'level of negative influence' with it.

I propose that one place to begin would be a deep analysis of the syntax and content of the queries. But you are right... there is no way to know what was "going on" for anybody in L/L at the exact moment of each query/reply.

i am at a loss as to how you are labeling this as channeling. this is not conscious or semi conscious channeling. this is basically one entity technically dying, leaving the body, and another walking in, without being subject to veil. it is no different than an alien basically landing in your backyard.

Well, besides the fact that L/L considers it channeling, that Carla wrote about the process in A Channeler's Handbook, and that most people consider the information to be channeled, I am not sure where you are coming up with the idea that the Ra material was not channeled. But I don't see continued argumentation on this point leading anywhere productive, so I will drop it.

that aside, you lost me about the structure of queries, pink elephant, and my annoyance with you pushing something. if you recite a few lines from those threads, i will elaborate.

From Why do Don and Ra talk about a lenticular galaxy when our galaxy is spiral?

WHAT?! Could this possibly mean that Ra is not infallible? Or perhaps that limitations in the Questioner's mind could distort the communication toward greater confusion? Wild!

lets get to the bottom of this - you have a beef with some information in the material, and you need Ra to be fallible in order for that information not to disturb you. this is the picture youre drawing with your concern going on and on in all threads, taking the form of 'ra's fallibleness'.

why not cut to the chase and just pop the real deal ?

That one. Please also follow the links within the above quote, as they shed more light on the topic.

the measurement of 'contamination' of the channel, is totally based on one's own desire.

Possibly, but not totally. Again, my desire is for the truth of the matter, not, "I don't want to believe harvest is immanent, therefore I will deny it."

there is no way you could measure the purity of the questioner, Ra, and the scribe.

True. This poses a major problem. But then again it is no different than considering Matthew's Messages, SaLuSa, the Nibiruans, Bashar, and a whole host of other bodies of information that, to some degree are coherent with LOO, and to some degree are not.

i am leaving out the channel, as you can see, for she was not there in that body.

No, I don't see this. If you can provide some additional info to back this up, I am open to seeing it.

in regard to 'meta information', 'effectiveness of words' and such - excuse me but there is not that much complication in this.

see, here ?

Yes, it happens all the time. And this forum is riddled with examples where somebody said one thing, another person took their words to be something different, and then conflict and confusion ensued.

Or I can think of countless failed attempts at reconciliation between Israel and Palestine in which both sides seem to be talking past each other. Or an American presidential debate where nobody seems to even understand the questions, or willfully ignores them. Or for that matter, pretty much any clip of Sarah Palin where she takes extreme liberty with the use of the English language to make things mean whatever she wants them to mean through the process of equivocation. (Sorry, Palin fans, I hope this doesn't derail the entire thread )

you are asking me a question. i am answering your question. i am still an entity that is attached to a body that is made of physical material, whereas i am still actually in time/space with mind/spirit. yet you are taking my replies literally, not talking about garbage in garbage out, or contamination, level of information and so on.

Yes, but that is not what is going on in the Ra material. You and I are two 3D entities having a direct conversation. Ra is a 6D entity, attempting to communicate with 3D entities about a level of existence which they themselves say, is beyond the ability to accurately describe with words.

it is not any different with the process you are talking about in this contact - there are 3 entities participating - a questioner, Ra, and a scribe. it is no different than 3 people talking in a room, and when you ask a question and get an answer from your friend, you taking it literally as answered.

Well we clearly do not see eye to eye here. People misunderstand each other all the time. Yes, Ra was using plain English language but that doesn't mean that something got lost in translation, or that the channel only "heard" what she was able to "hear" based upon her own internal biases and/or degree of negative attack that she was experiencing at the moment the reply was given.

i see what you are trying to get at, and yet you seem to be continuing in the wrong footing from the start. as i said - conscious, semi conscious channeling, trance and this kind of thing cannot be compared.

Are there any other examples of "this kind of thing" to use? Otherwise we are left with the closest known phenomenon. For that matter, how would you characterize "this kind of thing"? What would be the correct footing from which to begin, according to your understanding?

if you and i were to meet in person, you would ask my name, and you would take my name to be what i replied you.

More importantly, if I were to open the gateway to intelligent infinity, and be communicating directly with the universe, it would behoove me to already understand that asking questions like "What should I do?" or "What is going to happen next?" is going to lead me astray. Communication through the gateway is not the same as you and I having a chat over coffee.

It seems to me that on the one hand you are characterizing the Ra contact as "special" and a class unto its own, while other hand attempting to reduce the whole of the communication to a casual chat between two friends on a Sunday afternoon. I am confused by this.

you wouldnt suspect negative interference, you wouldnt reinterpret what i said, you wouldnt suspect the structure of your query.

Not immediately. However if our conversation continued to descend into chaos and conflict, and it seemed that no matter how I tried to rephrase my position, you continued to misinterpret what I was saying, then YES I would begin to suspect negative interference and/or a hidden agenda on your part.

Have you ever attempted to resolve a conflict with a woman who was hell-bent on interpreting whatever you say in the worst possible light? It is like that.

'is now' is a phrase that is used as 'imminent' in english literature and language.

if harvest was really 'then', the correct wordage and termage would take the form of 'harvest is happening as of now'.

So what you are saying is that Ra used the word "now" when they actually meant "in the not-so-near future, according to 3D measurements of time"? If so, they should have corrected this statement, or chosen a different word. "Now" means "now". For you to say that "now" means, in this case, something different, invalidates your previous arguments on normal conversations using plain language.

again, why we are even revisiting this ? just because someone had opened 3 threads in quick succession in order to confirm a strong bias s/he needed defended, and eventually ending up claiming total invalidation of Ra (rather unknowingly though, he just wanted to invalidate one or two q/as) ?

Personally, I am revisiting this because when I read Icaro's post, some of the views put forth coincided with things that I have been tossing around in the back of my own mind. So either, there is something of value here to investigate, or Icaro and I are both being manipulated by 5D/neg to derail the entire mission of L/L Research. In which case, it is still worth investigating.

address what ?

harvest != movement into 4d vibrations. how many times we have discussed this ? what is the problem at that point even ?

I am referring to the persistent belief that this 3D earth will become 4D earth, through the works of mankind upon the planet. As we have previously touched upon, harvest and the transition of the planet from 3D to full-activation 4D are not the same thing.

Harvest is the process by which 3D entities are transferred to 4D. Whether or not this is "gradual" or "sudden" is a distinct issue from the situation where we have a post-harvest 3D earth, with human beings still incarnating and reproducing upon it.

yes. however this doesnt allow entities to call bullshit on what they do not like selectively, going through extreme versions of that kind of nonsense themselves.

I am not saying that it does, and agree that it is absurd to call bullshit on something simply because the implications of it make us uncomfortable.

if you trust reliability of information, you trust it. if you dont, you dont. you cannot selectively trust information in places you dont like, and revert back later.

My lens of interpretation puts the Ra material in the category of "highly trusted" but not "infallible". My reasoning has been put forth here and in other threads.

notice - i didnt say trance channeling. for, this is not trance channeling. the method used in this contact was elaborated in the material. you will see that it is a very peculiar practice. and actually this was the reason for a lot of the troubles and dangers surrounding this contact.

Perhaps I should go back and review the methodology. In any case, I don't think I will be convinced that the steps the group took to preserve the integrity of the material was 100% effective. Maybe 99%, the 1% being a calculated manipulation, allowed to pass for some higher purpose which was left for us to discern.

if it was a common practice, it would be not only much easier for Ra to find a group, but also information similar to Ra material would be transmitted by other parties - Ra is not the only 6d entity that is involved with this sphere at this moment you know. one can say that the involvement of the south american group is much heavier than Ra.

As I do know. And it would appear that the various 6D entities share some common intent, but disagree about the effectiveness and appropriateness of different methodologies used to interact with the populace. So, there really is no basis for us believing that Ra's methodology is the "best", and in fact, Ra themselves tell us that this whole mess was a result of a failed method they employed in hopes of being of service to earth humans.

At the end of the day, and luckily for us, we are now positioned exceedingly close to the time window of 28 Oct 11 to 21 Dec 12 for "something" to happen, whatever that "something" may be. If that "something" is harvest, then we should expect a considerable chunk of the population to immanently die or go missing. If no such thing occurs, then either we have utterly failed to understand what "harvest" even is, or Ra utterly failed to understand our inability to perceive it.

[unity100]

don was not talking to an entity channeled by Carla. don was talking to Ra.

Don was talking to Ra... through Carla. This doesn't preclude the possibility of transient interference with the communication.

if you look at the description of the process in there, you will find that the entity 'Carla' was missing from the environment during the working, and together with Ra social memory complex in their home vibration.

there is no 'Carla' at that point.

it precludes the possibility of transient interference as much as you being in your body and telling your spouse that you love her precludes the possibility of transient interference.

You're continuing to build upon a characterization of the channeling process that may not be accurate. It may in fact be correct. But I don't know of any standard by which to evaluate these statements.

actually we do. we have a long tally of channeling methods starting from late 1800s. in among them, the description and mechanic of what we observe here, come up as the most perilous and outstanding.

I think what is being said here is that a 5D entity either interfered with Carla's unconscious state, Don's conscious state, or both. Which is not ridiculous, and is in fact not only possible, but exactly correct, according to Ra's words.

don's conscious state is irrelevant to the answer Ra gives. otherwise we wouldnt have answers in the form of blunt 'no's. anything affected by the conscious or subconscious of questioner, would take form according to what the questioner desired. and that wouldnt be blunt 'no's to carefully formulated, precisely worded queries that were created over a week's duration.

Carla's unconscious state is out of the question. since she is not there at that moment. you may want to do a reading into history of channeling and methods of channeling.

the situation here is no different from the entity walking in to abraham lincoln's body. it used abraham lincoln's own vocabulary, language skills, and yet it was a totally different entity. the difference in this case is, there is no veil of forgetting involved.

that would mean that Ra would be corruptible even in their home vibration, and even in their home state.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that Ra "screwed up" several times throughout earth's history, with all sorts of unexpected ramifications and unforeseen consequences. So yes, we must assume that- even at Ra's level- things are to a degree unknown and unpredictable. In fact, we specifically know that Ra's continued interaction with us here in 3D is directly tied to their attempt to attain their own next level.

screwing up due to naivete, and being controlled by negative entities are two different things. you cannot equate screwing up due to lack of wisdom to being controlled by a negative entity to make mistakes, and then being prevented from making those mistakes.

Yes, this would call many things into question. Since we don't have recordings of PET scans or EEGs of Don and Carla during the sessions, we really have no way of knowing how deeply "out" Carla was, or what kind of emotional state Don was in when he asked the questions, etc.

then in the end it means you either trust in this material, or you dont. there is no mid ground like icaro is trying to boil in order to work around the quote he doesnt like.

not only that, you also let go of the orders of progress in regard to this octave , from 5th to late 6th at least.

Eh? I am not following you in this statement.

an entity which has evolved into 6d from 5d, has evolved to it by passing all the necessary lessons that is relevant to 5d.

this includes any kind of possessive influence, 'mind control', being mislead, taken astray and many many more, which are being used as a base for proposing negative influence. you cannot pass from 5d to 6d, without having fulfilled these lessons (from both sides), just like how a 3d entity is not able to pass through 4d before fulfilling requirements of 4d.

the entity we are talking about is late 6d to boot.

Not true. They come when they are called. The calling also draws the attention of the Orion group. This is all discussed in the material. Honestly, I am having a hard time seeing how one can accept that the group was under attack during many of the sessions, but that somehow the material emerged completely unscathed.

actually i have already expressed this, and will not express it if you just go back and reiterate it again. i feel that you are either not reading what other people write, or just ignoring them.

if there was any kind of successful influence on the process, the influence would need to prevent Ra from going back and correcting the 2011 date that was introduced.

the only way for that to happen would be the negative entity taking total control of the process, or Ra entity, so that Ra entity would not be able to make the correction at any point they had access to process.

this is out of the question since all properties of the transmitted information remain consistent after session 17, totally similar to how it was before session 17. negative usurpation of the process changes the tone and nature of the information transmitted. since this did not happen, one cannot come up and propose that the negative entity got ahold of the process and imitated Ra.

I don't know for sure, but I do think that I have had some experience with 5D/neg entities- and let me tell you that they are not in the least perturbed by white candles. Nor does invoking the name of "Jesus Christ" send them off whimpering to their master in defeat. Such contrivances are amusing to 5D entities.

The only reason that the protection rituals had ANY effect was because of the effect they had on Carla's mental/emotional state to the degree that they reduced fear and doubt. If Carla wanted to create a ritual using a rotten banana peel and an empty bottle of Jack Daniels, while reciting the theme song to Cheers, she could have done that, and it would have worked just as well if such a ritual was acceptable to her subconscious.

and if you had more experience with negative entities and thought forms - not limited to 5d - you would find that there are a lot of effects that are caused by even the ordinary household items you totally take for granted and ignore, leave aside stuff you regularly use, totally leaving aside what you actually like or dont like to use. ridiculous things can allow for undesirable opportunities, or provide opportunities for the opposite kind.

the measures taken for Carla seem to have been taken mainly for procuring save leaving, keeping and returning of its mind/spirit complex to Ra's location, and back from their home vibration. this process has been done in every session, with the risk of any negative entity attempting to grab Carla's mind/spirit complex and place it in a negative time/space, killing her in incarnation. actually this was explained in detail in the book.

i dont know why i am having to tell you this.

YET, we are expected to believe that somehow, the actual words of the material emerged 100% unscathed, and error free? You must admit the situation is tenuous, at best.

it is not more tenous than the need for some of you people to have a means to deny the information you have at your hand.

noone could believe that some random natives could have passed pacific ocean with makeshift rafts, but it was proven. i can count a lot of things which were dubbed as impossible or unlikely, yet happened.

You seem to be conceiving of this as an either/or situation. There are many shades of "pure". And we are giving at least one example earlier in this thread about a man who was inspired by the Confederation to make some sort of free energy device, but then got influenced by the Orion group thus depolarizing his mission. Yet, in the end there was no real "harm done" due to the man's purity of intention.

So purity of intention does not 100% preclude manipulation. It just helps to reduce it.

i wont tell you again that if the process had not remained clean and clear according to Ra entity's aim, the process would have been discontinued. and if it was discontinued but still went on usurped by a negative impostor, it would change the tone and content of the message entirely.

Agreed. I think it is safe to say that Ra wasn't completely removed and replaced by a negative entity. The most we are talking about here is the possibility that a negative influence caused a "slip up" and/or that Ra, for some reason unbeknownst to us, allowed the "slip up" to pass.

it is an either or situation. ra corrected any slip ups. for a slip up not to be corrected, the entity must have taken over Ra for the rest of the material. period. i dont know how many times we need to reiterate this. and how it is possible for someone to still keep on arguing that 'some' influence was made, and then remained uncorrected, SOMEHOW.

Actually, yes it is. If you look at the material as a whole, there is a clear trend toward more transitory material as it goes on. In fact, as I have repeatedly pointed out ad nauseum, this trend was established right there in Session One. Ra offers to continue discourse on the Law of One. Don says, no thanks, tell us about the earth changes. "The tape gets flipped." Then Ra parlays the query about earth changes into harvest. And we're off to the races from there.

As you progress toward the end of the material it is dominated by discussion about the negative contact and the archetypes of the tarot. Which, I am sorry I am interested by the tarot just as much as the next guy, but I still don't understand why so much time was spent on this. There are so many countless works on the tarot and the archetypes, and frankly I didn't find one stitch of new information in any of those responses that couldn't be found in other books, or simply by meditating on the images on the cards themselves.

you dont understand why so much time was spent on 'tarot' archetypes, and then you proceed on to dub that material 'transitory' ?

are you joking or is this serious ?

what you call 'archetypes of tarot' are the archetypes of mind/body/spirit that are used by the logos of this solar system. since archetypal differences and interrelations vary, but the presence of archetypes of mind, body and spirit and their basic interactions do not change from logos to logos, what is described therein is basically the explanation and study of how entities exist.

it cannot go any more basic than that. excuse me, but if you are not aware of this, you shouldnt go around dubbing material transitory or non-transitory. it means that you just dont know what you are talking about.

it seems as if you are talking from your experience with what is called 'tarot' from outside. you seem to think that something like 'tarot' exists, and this material is studying it. you either have not read that the tarot you know from general knowledge has started, and evolved from this thing that is being discussed there, and that very thing was meant for teaching how archetypes of mind, body and spirit exist and interact.

So, yes, there is a very clear trend in depolarization throughout the entire contact, and it begins only a few paragraphs into Session One. This is not to say that Ra was displaced by a negative entity. It IS to say that Ra's purpose in responding to the call was largely depolarized by a direct attack on the material.

you are wrong, as demonstrated in your above dubbing of the very fundamentals of existence, thought, emotions and interactions not only in this solar system, but universe at large, as transitory.

.................

i will stop discussing this matter with you at this point. it becomes unworkable when someone dubs some information that works on the very basics of how entities 'exist' as transitory. it starts from wrong footing and goes downhill from there.

as a sidenote i will tell you that you are doing insightful strides occasionally, but because you are doing a lot of strides while not having a firm grasp of what you are starting your conclusions from, most of them go haywire.

like how you dubbed a piece of information which would open an entity the gates to how entities actually are able to perform what we call 'thinking', 'feeling', 'spiritual progress', and what actually an 'entity' means, as transitory. perilous information to work with actually, since it involves the very things that mind body spirit are, and their connections and interrelations - which can quite easily take an entity to destabilization and many other things, among which suicide would probably be least and one of the safe ones among what could happen.

thank you for your discussion.

I'm willing to mold and grow my understanding, and consider other possibilities. Suppose Orion didn't influence the channel directly. The purity of the session was detuning, no doubt.

im not discussing this matter with you, since i see little point, but i want to make this comment based on my experience with discussing you on this matter, which could be helpful to you :

you are not at all willing to mold or grow your understanding. for 2.5 threads total now, you are trying to go around a quote you dont like. despite ALL the arguments you have provided did not allow you to do so, you have still not at all considered the possibility that you are wrong, and you are trying to still go around something you dont like - as evidenced by what you write - which still revolves around the effort of introducing some, but not much 'negative influence' in ANY form you can manage, as to go around the information you dont like.

occasionally mentioning that you are willing to change your perspective is just lip service when you are hell bent on trying to ignore/deny the uncomfortable information you are up against. you went from interpreting to rewriting, from rewriting to metaphorizing, from metaphorizing to claiming negative usurpation. this sequence does not at all support your claim of being willing to change your perspective.

---

the simultaneous multiple existences of an entity throughout parallel universes. all of these potential paths combine in 7d, where you can see their entire picture.

If you say so.

i dont 'say' it. its what we learn from the material.

[Tenet Nosce]

Session 62 - Carla was under specific psychic greeting. Ra asks that breath be expelled over her body.

This session occurred at the beginning of a flurry of major solar flares:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fvJ...lare&hl=en

It appears that sessions 62 - 64 occurred during this period of intense solar activity. There is also a Book V fragment from that time. I haven't looked into it any further at this point, as I have an appointment coming in...

[unity100]

Session 62 - Carla was under specific psychic greeting. Ra asks that breath be expelled over her body.

This session occurred at the beginning of a flurry of major solar flares:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fvJ...lare&hl=en

It appears that sessions 62 - 64 occurred during this period of intense solar activity. There is also a Book V fragment from that time. I haven't looked into it any further at this point, as I have an appointment coming in...

in case you reflect on the cases for which 'psychic greeting' termage is used, you will see that the phrase 'physic greeting' is used as a polite way of saying 'attempt to kill'. not 'influence', or 'lead astray' or any of the sort. all the 'psychic greetings' in the book take form of trying to amplify one or other health problem or distortion to kill the entity named as Carla.

[Monica]

If there was no Mayan calendar, I have a hard time believing many of us would be arguing about 2011.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Conifer16]

In my opinion peace and prosperity between two sides is rarely achieved when one side tells the other that they are wrong.

Quote. By unity
you are wrong, as demonstrated in your above dubbing of the very fundamentals of existence, thought, emotions and interactions not only in this solar system, but universe at large, as transitory. End quote.

In my opinion when engaged in an argument for your point of view it would be more helpfull if you presented your opinion and then left it at that. Allowing the other side to observe and hopefuly consider your proposition and then decide wether(Sp?) or not they are willing to change their point of view to encompass the new material. What I see you doing is providing a different point of view which is different or opposite then the other side's Pov and I am thankful for that. It helps me to see the subject at hand differently then I would normally have seen it, and that is very helpfull. So thank you. However the way you present your Pov (at least the way I see it presented) as being correct and true and therfore it is correct and true for everyone else, is very likely to rub other people who see the subject differently the wrong way. And this can then cause friction in the group and possibly hurt feelings. I thought that the whole point of setting up an online community for TLOO was to discuss all of our different points of view in a safe and welcoming environment that was welcoming of others viewpoints and accepted them as valid to that person. And for the most part I see that, but over the time I have been here I have occasionally seen the type of behavior that is characteristic of other forums such as ,putting others down for having a different viewpoint that doesnt jive with ones own, telling others they are wrong(which implies(even if it isn't true) that one is superior to another and that their viewpoint is correct and others should then belief the same), and letting arguments(disscusions) become arguments(fighting for your viewpoints superiority). I would also like to point out that Quo always says to use your own discresion when reading their words and to let whatever doesn't work for you drop away and to move on from it. So why shouldn't we do the same? I mean,yes let's discuss different aspects of TLOO but let us not start fighting because our viewpoint is threatened by another's. Why can't we just accept another's viewpoint and move on if we feel friction? Or better yet look inside and figure out why we feel friction in the first place. This is not just directed at you Unity but also at the rest of the form. I have seen an increase in the behavior of my Pov is superior to yours and I will now do everything to make you believe it to. And I feel sad that we all can't get along. Personally I see all Povs as valid as we are all in our own little bubbles of reality that keep bumping up with others and exchanging information and sometimes love. Of coarse this is all just my opinion so if it doesn't work for you just let it fall away like a leaf in the wind. . So that post got away from me and I don't even know if it was all about the same topic. I just wrote what was coming up from inside as a constant stream of thought. Anyway

Thanks for reading my thoughts,
Conifer16
Adonai Vasu Borragus

And may you all have a happy and bountiful day

I suddenly have a huge welling up of affection for all of you even though I don't personally know any of you.

[unity100]

In my opinion peace and prosperity between two sides is rarely achieved when one side tells the other that they are wrong.

Quote. By unity
you are wrong, as demonstrated in your above dubbing of the very fundamentals of existence, thought, emotions and interactions not only in this solar system, but universe at large, as transitory. End quote.

In my opinion when engaged in an argument for your point of view it would be more helpfull if you presented your opinion and then left it at that. Allowing the other side to observe and hopefuly consider your proposition and then decide wether(Sp?) or not they are willing to change their point of view to encompass the new material.

.............

this has been going on for 4 threads now. go over entirety of those threads and come tell me these.

[Monica]

Yes, it happens all the time. And this forum is riddled with examples where somebody said one thing, another person took their words to be something different, and then conflict and confusion ensued.

Whew, that's for sure! What a person says isn't always what the other person hears, even in person, much less via typed words without benefit of facial expression, tone of voice, etc.

So what you are saying is that Ra used the word "now" when they actually meant "in the not-so-near future, according to 3D measurements of time"? If so, they should have corrected this statement, or chosen a different word. "Now" means "now". For you to say that "now" means, in this case, something different, invalidates your previous arguments on normal conversations using plain language.

Now denotes the present time. But what is the present time? The present moment? Hour? Day? Second? Decade? I'll go along with seconds, minutes, or hours, but we don't normally refer to something 10, 20 or 30 years in the future as "now". But to be sure, context must be taken into consideration. If a mother tells her child, "turn the tv off now!" she means now, as in, right this second. But when I am talking to a friend on the phone, and we make plans for a visit, and I say, "I'll leave right now and head on over to your house" then now means however long it takes me to put on my shoes, grab my car keys, lock the door, and get in my car. That could be a minute, a couple of minutes, or maybe even 5 or 10 minutes if I need to get the dogs in, or if I need a potty break or a quick snack first. Yet, my friend understands that I will be at her house soon, because I'm leaving as soon as I can, ie. now. Whereas, if that child took 10 minutes to turn off the tv, his mom would surely get angry at him! What does now mean to an astronomer watching a distant star go supernova? What does now mean to an archeologist comparing the lifestyle of prehistoric humans to the lifestyle of modern humans, now?

Furthermore, Ra admittedly has issues communicating demarcations of time.

I am referring to the persistent belief that this 3D earth will become 4D earth, through the works of mankind upon the planet. As we have previously touched upon, harvest and the transition of the planet from 3D to full-activation 4D are not the same thing.

Harvest is the process by which 3D entities are transferred to 4D. Whether or not this is "gradual" or "sudden" is a distinct issue from the situation where we have a post-harvest 3D earth, with human beings still incarnating and reproducing upon it.

Exactly! Thank you for this distinction.

we are now positioned exceedingly close to the time window of 28 Oct 11 to 21 Dec 12 for "something" to happen, whatever that "something" may be. If that "something" is harvest, then we should expect a considerable chunk of the population to immanently die or go missing. If no such thing occurs, then either we have utterly failed to understand what "harvest" even is, or Ra utterly failed to understand our inability to perceive it.

What is the significance of the Oct 28 date?

[3DMonkey]

In my opinion peace and prosperity between two sides is rarely achieved when one side tells the other that they are wrong.

Quote. By unity
you are wrong, as demonstrated in your above dubbing of the very fundamentals of existence, thought, emotions and interactions not only in this solar system, but universe at large, as transitory. End quote.

In my opinion when engaged in an argument for your point of view it would be more helpfull if you presented your opinion and then left it at that. Allowing the other side to observe and hopefuly consider your proposition and then decide wether(Sp?) or not they are willing to change their point of view to encompass the new material.

.............

this has been going on for 4 threads now. go over entirety of those threads and come tell me these.

You can actually go back to May, 2010 and make a list...

[Conifer16]

In my opinion peace and prosperity between two sides is rarely achieved when one side tells the other that they are wrong.

Quote. By unity
you are wrong, as demonstrated in your above dubbing of the very fundamentals of existence, thought, emotions and interactions not only in this solar system, but universe at large, as transitory. End quote.

In my opinion when engaged in an argument for your point of view it would be more helpfull if you presented your opinion and then left it at that. Allowing the other side to observe and hopefuly consider your proposition and then decide wether(Sp?) or not they are willing to change their point of view to encompass the new material.

.............

this has been going on for 4 threads now. go over entirety of those threads and come tell me these.

I can't tell the inflection put behind this sentence? Are you agreeing with me? Or disagreeing? Or what? I am very confused with this response.

[Tenet Nosce]

if you look at the description of the process in there, you will find that the entity 'Carla' was missing from the environment during the working, and together with Ra social memory complex in their home vibration.

there is no 'Carla' at that point.

OK I will refrain from further commentary on this particular aspect of the discussion until I review the relevant information in more detail.

actually we do. we have a long tally of channeling methods starting from late 1800s. in among them, the description and mechanic of what we observe here, come up as the most perilous and outstanding.

Will you please provide some references here? Specifically, a characterization of the method used in the Ra material, as well as examples of other information acquired from such practices? By this, I mean is there another example of the same "standard" of purity you are attributing to the Ra material?

Also, I thought you said that Carla wasn't channeling...? I believe you effectively said she was dying and reborn as Ra completely displaced her consciousness into time/space during the contact. Perhaps we should completely back up here and you could give me a working definition of "channeling" and explain how the Ra material fits in. As if I were a neophyte and you were explaining what this is to me for the very first time.

You seem to be insinuating that there is some very fundamental understanding which I do not have. If such is the case, then take "baby steps" with me so that I can understand.

don's conscious state is irrelevant to the answer Ra gives.

I don't think so. Don's conscious state is directly relevant to his specific choice of words in a particular query. This in turn directly impacts the amount and type of information Ra may offer in the response. We know that Don was prone to mood swings, which moreover were amplified as the negative contact continued to ensue. We know that Carla was also increasingly concerned over this, as was the rest of the group.

I am really sorry, but you appear to be in denial that the "thoughts" and "feelings" of those present in the room directly impacts the quality of the reading. Not to mention the presence of negative entities, or solar flares, pain in Carla's knee, or whatever else happens to be going on at that moment. I really don't see any basis for believing that all of these things are completely trivialized because the group traced a circle and said a prayer.

Carla's unconscious state is out of the question. since she is not there at that moment. you may want to do a reading into history of channeling and methods of channeling.

Where would you suggest to begin?

the situation here is no different from the entity walking in to abraham lincoln's body. it used abraham lincoln's own vocabulary, language skills, and yet it was a totally different entity. the difference in this case is, there is no veil of forgetting involved.

But why would an entity have to use lincoln's own vocabulary and language skills if lincoln was completely removed from the situation? Why not just start speaking swahili and performing the macarena?

screwing up due to naivete, and being controlled by negative entities are two different things. you cannot equate screwing up due to lack of wisdom to being controlled by a negative entity to make mistakes, and then being prevented from making those mistakes.

Are you saying that the only possible influence a negative entity may have is in taking direct control? According to my understanding of the situation, negative entities only attempt to take direct control in extremely rare circumstances. The majority of the efforts are aimed toward distracting the seeker, or influencing them to come to a false conclusion based upon incomplete information. That the group was under direct attack does not preclude more standard methods being undertaken simultaneously.

not only that, you also let go of the orders of progress in regard to this octave , from 5th to late 6th at least.

Eh? I am not following you in this statement.

an entity which has evolved into 6d from 5d, has evolved to it by passing all the necessary lessons that is relevant to 5d.

this includes any kind of possessive influence, 'mind control', being mislead, taken astray and many many more, which are being used as a base for proposing negative influence. you cannot pass from 5d to 6d, without having fulfilled these lessons (from both sides), just like how a 3d entity is not able to pass through 4d before fulfilling requirements of 4d.

the entity we are talking about is late 6d to boot.

OK, yes. I concur. You seem to be thinking that I am saying that Ra was manipulated. I am saying that the group was being manipulated. Which we both know is true. You seem to be saying that "something" was preventing this manipulation from impacting the material. That it didn't matter if Don was in a foul mood that day, or if Carla was in extreme pain, it didn't matter and Ra said EXACTLY what they intended to say at all points in the material.

Which if that is true, then when Ra said "The harvest is now.", then Ra meant NOW, as in 1981. You are performing the exact same sort of mental gymnastics here that you have been critical of in others. Either that or I have been completely misunderstanding you, in which case it is a wonder that we have been able to have any coherent conversation at all!

actually i have already expressed this, and will not express it if you just go back and reiterate it again. i feel that you are either not reading what other people write, or just ignoring them.

I will go and look, but no I don't always read the entirety of your reply to somebody else before composing a reply to you. What would be even more helpful is if within "i have already expressed this", you created a link to the actual post where you expressed it.

if there was any kind of successful influence on the process, the influence would need to prevent Ra from going back and correcting the 2011 date that was introduced.

There clearly was a successful influence as evidenced by all of us not being able to reach a consensus on the matter. Surely, Ra intended for us to understand something. As it now stands, the situation looks pretty bleak for Ra's success, as only a few people on the entire planet have managed to not only come into contact with the material by 2011, and even fewer have been able to penetrate its true meaning.

It sounds to me like you consider yourself to be one of those very few who has landed upon the precise interpretation of the material. So, what say you? Harvest is in 52 days. What message do you have for me, Tenet Nosce, who appears to be one minute on the verge of grasping something, and the next minute floundering in confusion. Any advice?

it is an either or situation. Ra corrected any slip ups. for a slip up not to be corrected, the entity must have taken over Ra for the rest of the material. period.

Then why was the slip up where Ra said "The harvest is now." not corrected?

you dont understand why so much time was spent on 'tarot' archetypes, and then you proceed on to dub that material 'transitory' ?

I didn't use the word "transitory" in reference to the archetypes, but the continuing dwelling upon the negative contact, and other transient material. I can see how it could have been read that way. But in any case, seeing as how the goal was to publish the material for all to see, then no I am still not clear why a thorough discussion of the archetypes was necessary. This is not meant to be a "Training Manual for Logoi".

The "message" of the Law of One is that it is sufficient for a 3D entity to be able to perceive itself in others and others in itself. A deep-down nitty-gritty look at the archetypes is fascinating, but not at all necessary for the average person. This is advanced study material.

Learning to find the precise balance point between the focused will of The Magician and the chaotic unpredictability of The Wheel is not a third density learning. In third density it is sufficient to know that "You Reap What You Sow" and "The Only Constant Is Change".

are you joking or is this serious ?

I hope this clears things up for you.

[unity100]

I can't tell the inflection put behind this sentence? Are you agreeing with me? Or disagreeing? Or what? I am very confused with this response.

what do you expect as a response ?

[Tenet Nosce]

You can actually go back to May, 2010 and make a list...

There would likely be exactly 111 entries at this moment.

[unity100]

................

despite there are usable points worth replying in your post, i wont reply to it on the grounds i have expressed before. if someone says that the material increasingly becomes transient towards book 4, then it is time to stop discussing for me. it explicitly signifies that the person either did not read book 4, or read it half assed, or, have not paid much attention at all, or was not able to gauge whats going on inside.

towards book 4, the information becomes so abstract, locale independent (this solar system) and goes into so deep spiritual concepts and philosophy that, i actually find it impractical in regard to being useful for daily lives of entities on the face of this planet, and their immediate progress into near future. it is also due to same reason many have problems reading into this book, and understanding or using it. we even attempted to set up a thread to reread this book in this very forum, telling that a lot of us have not been able to fully grasp the material within.

the psychic attack subjects recur in book 4, as much as psychic attacks recur. if someone is coming after you and try to stab you in the back, you seek ways to prevent that. and this was what they were doing. it is either doing that and surviving and continuing the contact, or ending it, or ending it by dying. there is no other option. the fact that i am having to tell you this, tells me your perspective and judgment have been hastily constructed on that matter. and this is why, i am not participating in discussing these with you anymore.

thank you.

[Tenet Nosce]

What is the significance of the Oct 28 date?

ROFL! What you mean you don't know?

I would refer you to Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods. It kind of dovetails into the McKenna timewave concept, so I am sure you will enjoy it.

The gist is that 28 October 2011 has been proposed as an alternative to the "traditional" Mayan calendar end date of 21 Oct 12. And with very good reason, once you delve into the details.

[Conifer16]

I can't tell the inflection put behind this sentence? Are you agreeing with me? Or disagreeing? Or what? I am very confused with this response.

what do you expect as a response ?

I try not to expect anything. And answering me like that is also very confusing. Why don't you just answer the question instead of asking another question?

[unity100]

I can't tell the inflection put behind this sentence? Are you agreeing with me? Or disagreeing? Or what? I am very confused with this response.

what do you expect as a response ?

I try not to expect anything. And answering me like that is also very confusing. Why don't you just answer the question instead of asking another question?

because it is tiring to explain how tiring it is to discuss with people who incessantly start off without firmly grasping what they are going to talk about, and veer off to a thousand directions and make thousand conclusions, to political correctness conscious, or, lovey-dovey people. leaving aside being disrespectful to whomever one is discussing with, such an act is also totally unfruitful. yet, people do it. and some other people ask why someone comes up and tells someone else that they are wrong, directly.

this should clear your confusion and worries about this particular whatever.

[Tenet Nosce]

and this is why, i am not participating in discussing these with you anymore.

thank you.

Given your previous comments on why I should care about impractical information in Book 4, despite my already having told you that I -do- care about it, and in light of a direct inquiry for assistance:

It sounds to me like you consider yourself to be one of those very few who has landed upon the precise interpretation of the material. So, what say you? Harvest is in 52 days. What message do you have for me, Tenet Nosce, who appears to be one minute on the verge of grasping something, and the next minute floundering in confusion. Any advice?

Your reply is actually quite telling of the amount of pristine spiritual principles you have succeeded in making practical for everyday use. As evidenced by the fact that you have pretty much "dismissed" everybody in this forum in one way or another, I am inclined to ask what exactly is your purpose in being here? What are you seeking in your interactions with others in this forum?