Share your vision for the harvest

[Tenet Nosce]

Tenet, many times in this thread you have stated what I find to be the truth of the subject.

Which statements do you find truthful, and which do you find incoherent? Cause in my mind I am making sense. But I am open to learning that I am simply deluding myself. Wouldn't be the first time.

IMO, it is as if you know the answers but are not looking for them in what you are saying/intuiting.

Well... ahem... er... how shall I say this while maintaining full plausible deniability? 3D does not exactly seem native to me. I still stand by the quote. I'm not sure how or where I contradicted it.

Do you see?

No! LOL just tell me! I'm directly asking you, so no worries about violating my free will or spoiling the lesson for me. I got catalyst coming out my bazoo...

If the onlooker is looking on then they aren't looking inside, which means what they see will be whatever they find acceptable to see.

I am looking inside and outside simultaneously right now. I kind of think I get what you mean, but I am not sure.

If the opening is inside, then an onlooker lacks the sufficient awareness.

No. An onlooker who recognizes the opening inside themselves would also recognize the opening inside others, or lack thereof. An onlooker with insufficient awareness sees whatever they want to see, as you indicated above.

Another way of saying this is: you can't play hide-and-seek in fourth density. Nor most other children's games, for that matter. I guess we will have to come up with some "new" ones.

In fourth density, whatever is going on inside an entity is overwhelmingly obvious to any other entities looking on. Unless said entity specifically chooses to create a veil around a portion of their body, in which case it is still overwhelmingly obvious to an onlooker that the veil is present. From there, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what might be lurking behind it.

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth-density is one of revealed information. Selves are not hidden to self or other-selves. The imbalances or distortions which are of a destructive nature show, therefore, in more obvious ways, the vehicle of the mind/body/spirit complex thus acting as a teaching resource for self revelation. These illnesses such as cancer are correspondingly very amenable to self-healing once the mechanism of the destructive influence has been grasped by the individual.

The very concept of fourth density implies the ability to see "around" and "through" things simultaneously, including bodies. There are countless examples documented from various astral travels demonstrating this.

Moreover, fourth density is a density of variable physicality meaning an entity can have physical body at their whimsy. Now here, now not here. Except for when 3D is active, and 4D entities remain bodiless out of courtesy.

Or except when 4D entities run amok in 3D, posing as gods and enslaving the natives, and forcing them through "religion" to make blood sacrifices so that they may remain physical as an act of rebellion. Now we wouldn't want to relive that again, would we??

And if we are sitting here trying to determine what the onlookers are going to be looking at, then we are spinning our wheels into a deep rut.

I guess that would all depend on who we conceive ourselves to be, and where we stand in relation to the process. Again, we are like 10-ish people chatting on an obscure message board off in a little corner of the Internet. The fact that we are here/now trying to determine this places us in a very unlikely, and unusual position.

You and I have touched on this before. I don't see anybody here on this forum in any way representative of what I would consider "average" or "normal". Maybe everybody doesn't quite realize it, but we are all a part of this thing called the "Ra material". We are part of the process, still occurring now through us, here on this forum.

If the Ra material is meant to be understood, then it is we who are going to do it. If the Ra material is not meant to be understood, we should all turn off our computers and go watch the game, or Jersey Shore.

I have found many of your statements to coincide with my understanding, but then you say something that make me go "huh?" because it is like you didn't look at what you just wrote.

If I am being that incoherent, please point it out. Can you give some examples?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Ra never said "whenever we say 'approximately' regarding a date, it means within 5 years." Yes, they're using human time, but many people have different ideas of what approximately might mean. It's a relative term. If the limits were defined, the response would have been "Yes, the moment of harvest will happen sometime between 2010 and 2015." THAT is definition of the limits. Approximate limits are relative.

i dont know what you are even arguing :

- all dates in the material regarding our time has been given with our time scale. corrected if erred.
- Ra knows what a year is
- Ra knows what does something taking a year, or longer than a year means.
- if the probabilities of it happening in another year than 2011 was sufficiently high, Ra would tell it. like they did with transition, and anything else.
- harvest may happen this year. harvest happening in the next years will not change the fact that it will happen within a year.

This part of my discussion has nothing to do with the gradual vs. instant debate. This goes back to my assertion of ambiguity, or openness for interpretation, not by myself, but possible interpretation by another using unreasonable but undeniable logic.

What I'm arguing is simply the date, not the time span. And I'm not even arguing because I don't think 2011 would be an accurate date for harvest, what I'm upholding is the idea that the words could be interpreted by someone else to say that harvest could very possibly happen later in the future, not in 2011. Since 2011 was an approximation, it means that harvest will happen in the proximity of 2011. Meaning near 2011. But who judges what "near" is? It's a relative term.

Right, exactly, "most likely" probability does not mean "definitely." It explicitly leaves room for other probabilities. Not probabilities regarding the mechanic of harvest, but the date of harvest, which is what I'm talking about.

what im saying is if there were other probabilities that were sufficiently noticeable, they would be named.

If something has a 99% chance to happen a certain way, there's still a 1% chance it would happen another way, and so if nothing noticeable happens in the next few years, someone could still fall back on that 1% chance that it is going to happen a different way. That's all I'm saying.

Unless this contact only happens once one passes into time/space.

contacting intelligent infinity in conscious form, is free ticket out of a 3d planet. i am not sure if you are missing this or not. it surpasses harvest, harvest cycles, and apparently because harvesters come during harvests, harvesters too. and 'leaving through intelligent infinity' phrase used for these situations. im telling these because you seemed to imply that conscious contact during incarnation was not possible. it is. and it is not something that can go unnoticed.

I'm not saying it is not possible, only that it's possible that it won't be forced upon entities in incarnation at harvest time.

s for contacting intelligent infinity in time/space, it isnt a possibility that would go unnoticed by the conscious self either. the contact substantially alters the consciousness of an entity when done in conscious form to the extent it is explained in the material and how do entities react. it doesnt matter whether you contact that energy during time/space presence in sleep or else - the energy that is transferred through contact, would still be there.

What I'm saying is the possibility that contact doesn't even happen until the entity exits space/time.

I'm not saying that the 4D is just awareness, I'm talking about becoming more aware of the 4D material. Obviously there will be children born with different genetics and different material, and there's no clear explanation of how this evolution happens in the material. They will probably not react well to foods of lower vibration...they'll simply stop eating them.

How do you interpret the gradual evolution of 4D bodies if not gradual?

those bodies may be birthing and evolving in the newly shaping 4d physical plane that 3-4d body entities also manifest in. another dimension.

Wouldn't this still require a single generation to be lost to another? The last generation incarnating into 3D and the first incarnating into 4D? It seems to make more sense to me that this transfer of body from 3D to 4D happens gradually with the evolution of the bodies.

I'm still not quite grasping how this would inhibit the scenario I proposed. Entities will be harvested upon death, and will be harvestable in incarnation. In this harvest, one doesn't have to be "harvestable" to get harvested, they'll simply be placed in another 3D continuum. How does the difference between being harvested and being harvestable prevent one from being harvested only once they die naturally?

Right, of course if one is harvested they would know, but in the scenario at the moment harvest happens, the masses of unincarnated souls are harvested, and then the souls in incarnation are harvested upon natural death. Harvest strikes in a moment, and it would not be possible to not be harvested after the generation alive during harvest dies.

something that is told to take place within a year, cannot wait for entities' decades or 70 years long incarnation periods to end. harvesters come at the end of cycle in harvest, and apparently, go after harvest is completed. it is not an 'everlasting opportunity' that waits for whims and amusement of entities incarnated. otherwise a harvest period in a NORMAL 3d planet, would need to last a whopass 900 years at the minimum.

This is where the heart of my point in this discussion lies, and it might be something we'll have to simply disagree on. For the harvest taking place in 2011, I don't think it would be unacceptable to imply that Ra meant that the gateway to intelligent infinity opens in 2011. And again, I feel like Ra mentioning the entities not in incarnation being harvested at that time could be a clue instead of just a clarification. I feel like if Ra wanted to clarify that that's when all entities were harvested, they would have said "All entities will be harvested at this time." Instead, saying entities not in incarnation are included at this time could mean that, in the whole harvest, this is when entities not in incarnation are included. No doubt this would be a grand event, a major part of the harvest, and any entities not in incarnation at that time will no longer have a chance to incarnate to become harvestable after that date.

You may attribute my view to anything you wish, bias or bad logic or a misunderstanding of linguistics or what have you. I would very much like a quick and easy departure from this plane and this body which to me feels like a mask which is choking me...or simply just a quick and soon yet uncomfortable departure, as my curiosity drives me to wish to experience something different than this life, and I see that as a possibility, but not the only one.

I did find this quote which I would like to see your take on:

26.26 Questioner: I was thinking specifically if an entity was in Hiroshima or Nagasaki at that time and he was reaching harvestability at the end of our cycle, would this death by nuclear bomb create such trauma that he would not be harvestable at the end of the cycle?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Once the healing has taken place the harvest may go forth unimpeded.

It seems to me that Ra is implying these entities must heal before they are included in harvest. They will not be healed by the time the gateway opens, as it is stated they haven't even begun to fully start the healing process. Yet they will be harvested anyways. Would this require the opportunity for harvest to last for longer than just a year?

Also, regarding the idea of a 4D population to fill 7 billion transitional bodies, what are we basing the average population of a planet on? I know we have an idea of how many planets are of a certain density, and what sort of percentages we can see from a mixed harvest, but do we have any idea about population? Couldn't it be possible that there are planets out there which support populations much larger than Earth? Conditions vary from Logos to Logos.

[Tenet Nosce]

abridgetoofar... you get bonus points for the 1:11 post!

But seriously, I am just interjecting here to note that I am not ignoring your previous posts, but waiting to see if and how a few points get resolved between you and unity100 before jumping back in.

[Tenet Nosce]

Unless the abilities are slowly learned and the potential for them is slowly gained. Also, why is that disabling? What do you think superhuman powers means? Are you thinking about something you saw in a movie or something less imaginary? We're told that there will seem to be a new breed of transitional bodied people. They still have to learn their abilities - that involves discipline and takes awhile, especially in a society that does not teach such things.

No actually, I don't think you've interpreted the material correctly here, and it seems like you are willfully ignoring the actual descriptions of fourth density present in the material. There will be no society that "does not teach such things" because those harvested will leave that society behind and continue their life in fourth density from that point forward.

(Allowing perhaps for an extremely brief anamolous period where an entity might have conscious access to both densities. But this might just be wishful thinking on my part.)

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth-density is one of revealed information. Selves are not hidden to self or other-selves.

All is revealed. Nothing is hidden. Things are obvious. This is wildly different than the situation we are currently experiencing. When this change comes about, it will be obvious, and immediate. One minute the veil is there, the next minute it is not. Why it would be disabling for a 3D entity to be in such an environment should be rather obvious by now.

In a world where all is revealed, there is no need to hide behind symbolism, or subjectivity. It is not a world where anything is "whatever you make it out to be". It is a world where things are what they are, and not a representation of what they are. Furthermore it is not a world which can be molded and twisted to whatever suits one's fancy, and nobody else will really notice, or care.

Oh, sure, you will be able to hallucinate whatever you want. Steak sandwich? No problem. You won't even have to "kill an animal" to have one. But you won't be able to do is force others to interact with your hallucinations.

Ra: I am Ra. The use of the word “normal” is one which befuddles the meaning of the question. Let us rephrase for clarity. The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.

I've thrown this one out a few times, and it goes unacknowledged. Therefore, I will assume it is unchallenged. And it is clearly and unequivocally corroborated by this next one:

Ra: You must see the Earth, as you call it, as being seven Earths. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for fourth-density entities which they will call Earth. During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth-density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth-density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third-density.

Thus in fourth-density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo.

Yellow goes out due to the lack of development of fourth density entities... with respect to turning their abilities off, not on. Blue goes into potentiation because it is not necessary to discern between "your truth" and "my truth" in fourth density. The indigo goes into potentiation because its work in transferring consciousness is done.

The indigo-ray balancing is quite central to the type of work which revolves about the spirit complex, which has its influx then into the transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density, it being the energy center receiving the least distorted outpourings of love/light from intelligent energy and also the potential for the key to the gateway of intelligent infinity.

Here's a gem. The "transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density" along with the key to the "gateway of intelligent infinity". This is not "normal evolutionary processes". People, including Ra, do not use the words "transformation" and "transmutation" to refer to something which happens slowly over a long period of time. If Ra meant evolution, Ra would have used the word evolution.

Ra: I am Ra. These are planetary entities harvested—Wanderers only in the sense that they chose, in fourth-density love, to immediately reincarnate in third density rather than proceeding towards fourth density. This causes them to be Wanderers of a type, Wanderers who have never left the Earth plane because of their free will rather than because of their vibrational level.

But wait! If those entities could have proceeded toward fourth density 25,000 years ago that means... fourth density already existed. We are not "creating" fourth density on earth. We are transforming and transmuting aspects of third density to fourth density... ALREADY IN PROGRESS. Various people keep talking about when did fourth density begin? Huh? What do you mean, begin? Fourth density is not beginning. It was available to harvestable entities 25,000 years ago, and 50,000 years ago. Actually, it was available to all possible harvestable entities across all possible parallel dimensions, on all possible planetary spheres, since the beginning of time. "Time"... as in 3D. In 4D there is no "time".

Mother earth is already living in her new cozy home in fourth density. We are the movers she sent back to pick up her stuff. There now I have metaphorized it and left it up to subjective interpretation as to who, exactly, constitutes "we".

Ra: I am Ra. There is one harvest. Those able to enter fourth density through vibrational complex levels may choose the manner of their further seeking of the One Creator.

There is one harvest. Not many harvests strewn about over a period of a thousand years. Upon harvest, those able to enter fourth density will do so. That means, leaving here, and going to fourth density earth. Not turning third density earth slowly into fourth density earth, so as not to disrupt anybody in the process. Also, those who enter fourth density will choose their form of service. Not work a crappy job at McDonald's and practice their telepathy at night before bed.

And besides, anybody with a modicum of plain vanilla knowledge of human and geological history knows that nature doesn't give a diddly-squat. Woop, here comes a meteor! Bye-bye dinosaurs! Whoa!! There went Atlantis! Black Plague, anybody? There's plenty to go 'round!

The funny thing is that you seem to think my view as overly fantastical or magical, while I see 1000 years of harv-gasmic bliss to be magical thinking to the extreme. Why now are we suddenly "saved" of all these possible scenarios ever occurring? What? The hand of god is going to reach down and stop meteors from impacting earth in order to keep Jimbo alive?

No, the only way "out" of this situation is to leave this place and go to another place where things like meteors, and floods, and plagues, don't really happen. (Unless, again, somebody feels like putting on a good show.) This place is called fourth density earth. It vibrates at a different level on the spectrum than third density earth where such inconveniences occur.

Fourth density earth is not "created" by everybody getting together in third density earth and singing cumbaya while their "positive vibrations" deflect meteors and solar flares for all eternity. Meanwhile, all our "space brothers" land and we get together at Starbucks for a coffee with them and chat about the upcoming elections. "Gee, I just don't know who to vote for! I was a Ron Paul supporter, but now with Bashar and SaLuSa on the ticket, I am not so sure!"

All of this nonsense is due to a pointless attempt to force third density terms onto a fourth density experience. How do I know it is pointless? Because Ra, a sixth density entity, could barely find the words to even attempt to describe it to us. It is wishful thinking to the extreme.

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are not words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thought of other-selves; it is a plane wherein one is aware of vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

Another "lost soldier" quote that I keep floating out in the ethers with little to no attention. Curiously, this quote is the best "description" we have so it seems a little odd to not consider it.

Yet even Ra can barely find words to describe it. If fourth density was just like third density, only slightly more fun, Ra would have said so. If there was anything in third density that Ra could have glommed onto in Carla's mind, I can only assume they would have made use of it.

The body is "much denser and more full of life". I'm sorry, but I have a degree in biology and I have no way of explaining this using what I would consider to be normal terminology. Therefore, whatever Ra is talking about here is completely unlike anything I currently perceive about what a body is, and how it functions.

Then there is the piece "automatically harmonized by group consensus". Well, there you have it. I mean... what do YOU think this means? We all will get together and cast votes on the Internet, or something? The only plausible mechanism for automatic harmonization by group consensus is telepathy... by everybody... all at once. Here it is again, just in cased you missed it:

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen.

Now why would Ra have decided to phrase it thusly, if they weren't attempting to make a clear-cut point?

To imagine a situation where a certain portion of the population started to form a social memory complex, but another part of the population was left out... I mean.. the only word that really comes to mind is disabling.

All of the technology you see around you- phones, computers, television, the Internet, automobiles, airplanes, spaceships, is completely unnecessary in fourth density. The only reason these technologies even "exist" is to help balance out the 3D entities who have been incarnated during a period of greatly increased bleedthrough of fourth density energies.

These technologies are there to help keep everybody sane. They help the 3D entity better deal with the incoming 4D energy, and they help the 4D candidate to get a little peek into what 4D will actually be like when they get there. They also serve as a mechanism for the 4D negative to trick and deceive 3D entities into believing they are gods, and to trick seekers into supporting a "return of the Golden Age" on earth... with our new "Ascended Masters" at the helm, of course.

Once in fourth density, these devices are nothing more than contrivances. They are mostly for show, or for amusement. Or perhaps as a teaching tool for 4D neophytes... but only with the understanding that they have no independent reality of their own and are a complete fabrication of the mind.

[unity100]

This part of my discussion has nothing to do with the gradual vs. instant debate. This goes back to my assertion of ambiguity, or openness for interpretation, not by myself, but possible interpretation by another using unreasonable but undeniable logic.

What I'm arguing is simply the date, not the time span. And I'm not even arguing because I don't think 2011 would be an accurate date for harvest, what I'm upholding is the idea that the words could be interpreted by someone else to say that harvest could very possibly happen later in the future, not in 2011. Since 2011 was an approximation, it means that harvest will happen in the proximity of 2011.

this part i have already understood, and it is logical. but :

Meaning near 2011. But who judges what "near" is? It's a relative term.

this part was the problem. what decides 'near' is, us. we. the world society and its accumulated knowledge and info and generally accepted understanding of what a 'year' constitutes. ra knew what a year was for us. ra knew of probabilities. ra was more capable than us in calculating probabilities actually.

we know that harvest is apparently something that fits in a year. we were told it would happen IN some year, as you noted. this then leaves only the potentials for that year being in any given date.

and in that respect, if there was a likely year vicinity or probability that would allow harvest back and forth mobility with the date, they would express it. and in that, i am thinking that the most likely possibility, was that.

the world can destroy itself and no harvest may happen. the harvest may happen a year later. or it may have happened a year before in an alternate universe. yet, the chances of harvest happening 5 years later, is lost to me. since if there was such a possibility that could be noted, it would be told.

that.

If something has a 99% chance to happen a certain way, there's still a 1% chance it would happen another way, and so if nothing noticeable happens in the next few years, someone could still fall back on that 1% chance that it is going to happen a different way. That's all I'm saying.

yes. and you dont take risks on a 1% gamble in your own life. basically, you know that it will happen the other way.

I'm not saying it is not possible, only that it's possible that it won't be forced upon entities in incarnation at harvest time.

then harvesters will wait for 70 years so that the entities born a year ago may die normally ... is that it ?

What I'm saying is the possibility that contact doesn't even happen until the entity exits space/time.

then entities would have to die in order to make this contact.

Wouldn't this still require a single generation to be lost to another? The last generation incarnating into 3D and the first incarnating into 4D? It seems to make more sense to me that this transfer of body from 3D to 4D happens gradually with the evolution of the bodies.

that is a rather far fetched possibility (or it seems to) that we are speaking. but, if something like that happened, the entities born from these entities in 4d would be able to interact with these 3-4d entities. 3-4d entities would have of course less conscious interaction in the matter. and when they died, they would have just died. being less aware of their siblings in 4d, the problems would be much less. of course this is just speculation.

This is where the heart of my point in this discussion lies, and it might be something we'll have to simply disagree on. For the harvest taking place in 2011, I don't think it would be unacceptable to imply that Ra meant that the gateway to intelligent infinity opens in 2011. And again, I feel like Ra mentioning the entities not in incarnation being harvested at that time could be a clue instead of just a clarification. I feel like if Ra wanted to clarify that that's when all entities were harvested, they would have said "All entities will be harvested at this time." Instead, saying entities not in incarnation are included at this time could mean that, in the whole harvest, this is when entities not in incarnation are included. No doubt this would be a grand event, a major part of the harvest, and any entities not in incarnation at that time will no longer have a chance to incarnate to become harvestable after that date.

You may attribute my view to anything you wish, bias or bad logic or a misunderstanding of linguistics or what have you. I would very much like a quick and easy departure from this plane and this body which to me feels like a mask which is choking me...or simply just a quick and soon yet uncomfortable departure, as my curiosity drives me to wish to experience something different than this life, and I see that as a possibility, but not the only one.

well excuse me but i will have to just do that. you just reset everything back by totally ignoring the direct meaning of the direct questions and answers, and just loaded them with different meanings.

i can start with telling that if gates to intelligent infinity could remain open a whopass 100 years, ra would tell it, and move on to reiterate the same q/as you just totally resetted to nil, but it will be a loss of time.

if you would like to see that you can just go back a few pages and read it.

you are wanting to see 'possibilities' and just seeing them, regardless of what you read. it is a one way street. you dont need me to discuss anymore.

26.26 Questioner: I was thinking specifically if an entity was in Hiroshima or Nagasaki at that time and he was reaching harvestability at the end of our cycle, would this death by nuclear bomb create such trauma that he would not be harvestable at the end of the cycle?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Once the healing has taken place the harvest may go forth unimpeded.

It seems to me that Ra is implying these entities must heal before they are included in harvest. They will not be healed by the time the gateway opens, as it is stated they haven't even begun to fully start the healing process. Yet they will be harvested anyways. Would this require the opportunity for harvest to last for longer than just a year?

harvesters are present at the time of harvest. they are the ones who allow entities to manifest their violet even if they are totally disarrayed.

moreover, as said before, harvest or harvesters cannot wait the uncertain healing duration needed by a number of entities. it is a mechanical opening to infinite intelligence in the case of regular harvests. not something that is on-demand.

'gateway to intelligent infinity opens regardless of the circumstances upon striking of the hour'. this also means, it would close regardless of the circumstances upon the striking of the hour. otherwise, there is no point to there being a hour, or a 500 planetary entity crowded confederation going berserk in order to increase harvest. 100 years in 3d, means a much longer time for the densities above, or time/space. endless work can be done in such a period. just look at spirituality of the planet and its state 100 years ago, and now.

Also, regarding the idea of a 4D population to fill 7 billion transitional bodies, what are we basing the average population of a planet on? I know we have an idea of how many planets are of a certain density, and what sort of percentages we can see from a mixed harvest, but do we have any idea about population? Couldn't it be possible that there are planets out there which support populations much larger than Earth? Conditions vary from Logos to Logos.

if you fall back to the initial post i made about that subject, you will see that i have taken entire galaxy as a calculation base (instead of just taking the 500 planet local confederation which would have similar tendencies) and i went on to lengths that include body type choices of logoi, the effect that would make on available technology and the effect that would make on the number of entities a planet could support.

please just fall back. its a long post and i can just not reiterate here. i actually am surprised why you are asking the very specific things i have a few times iterated.

[Bring4th_Austin]

This is where the heart of my point in this discussion lies, and it might be something we'll have to simply disagree on. For the harvest taking place in 2011, I don't think it would be unacceptable to imply that Ra meant that the gateway to intelligent infinity opens in 2011. And again, I feel like Ra mentioning the entities not in incarnation being harvested at that time could be a clue instead of just a clarification. I feel like if Ra wanted to clarify that that's when all entities were harvested, they would have said "All entities will be harvested at this time." Instead, saying entities not in incarnation are included at this time could mean that, in the whole harvest, this is when entities not in incarnation are included. No doubt this would be a grand event, a major part of the harvest, and any entities not in incarnation at that time will no longer have a chance to incarnate to become harvestable after that date.

You may attribute my view to anything you wish, bias or bad logic or a misunderstanding of linguistics or what have you. I would very much like a quick and easy departure from this plane and this body which to me feels like a mask which is choking me...or simply just a quick and soon yet uncomfortable departure, as my curiosity drives me to wish to experience something different than this life, and I see that as a possibility, but not the only one.

well excuse me but i will have to just do that. you just reset everything back by totally ignoring the direct meaning of the direct questions and answers, and just loaded them with different meanings.

i can start with telling that if gates to intelligent infinity could remain open a whopass 100 years, Ra would tell it, and move on to reiterate the same q/as you just totally resetted to nil, but it will be a loss of time.

if you would like to see that you can just go back a few pages and read it.

you are wanting to see 'possibilities' and just seeing them, regardless of what you read. it is a one way street. you dont need me to discuss anymore.

You're excused, and you may have that opinion if you want. But I can say that there's no reason for me to wish to see different possibilities. I guess the whole thing is equating "harvest being spread out" with "the gates being open for a longer amount of time." They can be equated but in my eyes don't have to be.

26.26 Questioner: I was thinking specifically if an entity was in Hiroshima or Nagasaki at that time and he was reaching harvestability at the end of our cycle, would this death by nuclear bomb create such trauma that he would not be harvestable at the end of the cycle?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Once the healing has taken place the harvest may go forth unimpeded.

It seems to me that Ra is implying these entities must heal before they are included in harvest. They will not be healed by the time the gateway opens, as it is stated they haven't even begun to fully start the healing process. Yet they will be harvested anyways. Would this require the opportunity for harvest to last for longer than just a year?

harvesters are present at the time of harvest. they are the ones who allow entities to manifest their violet even if they are totally disarrayed.

moreover, as said before, harvest or harvesters cannot wait the uncertain healing duration needed by a number of entities. it is a mechanical opening to infinite intelligence in the case of regular harvests. not something that is on-demand.

'gateway to intelligent infinity opens regardless of the circumstances upon striking of the hour'. this also means, it would close regardless of the circumstances upon the striking of the hour. otherwise, there is no point to there being a hour, or a 500 planetary entity crowded confederation going berserk in order to increase harvest. 100 years in 3d, means a much longer time for the densities above, or time/space. endless work can be done in such a period. just look at spirituality of the planet and its state 100 years ago, and now.

I understand that, but you're not taking into account the specifics of the quote. What do you say about "Once the healing has taken place the harvest may go forth unimpeded." If they were already harvested, the harvest wouldn't continue after healing had taken place.

Also, regarding the idea of a 4D population to fill 7 billion transitional bodies, what are we basing the average population of a planet on? I know we have an idea of how many planets are of a certain density, and what sort of percentages we can see from a mixed harvest, but do we have any idea about population? Couldn't it be possible that there are planets out there which support populations much larger than Earth? Conditions vary from Logos to Logos.

if you fall back to the initial post i made about that subject, you will see that i have taken entire galaxy as a calculation base (instead of just taking the 500 planet local confederation which would have similar tendencies) and i went on to lengths that include body type choices of logoi, the effect that would make on available technology and the effect that would make on the number of entities a planet could support.

please just fall back. its a long post and i can just not reiterate here. i actually am surprised why you are asking the very specific things i have a few times iterated.

I did a search in this thread for "population" and checked every one of your posts mentioning the word before I asked this, and just now. I don't see any specific calculations or mention of technologies or anything of that. Could it be in another thread? This conversation seems to be spanning a few threads and I've collapsed on this one without much regard for the others.

[zenmaster]

Unless the abilities are slowly learned and the potential for them is slowly gained. Also, why is that disabling? What do you think superhuman powers means? Are you thinking about something you saw in a movie or something less imaginary? We're told that there will seem to be a new breed of transitional bodied people. They still have to learn their abilities - that involves discipline and takes awhile, especially in a society that does not teach such things.

No actually, I don't think you've interpreted the material correctly here, and it seems like you are willfully ignoring the actual descriptions of fourth density present in the material. There will be no society that "does not teach such things" because those harvested will leave that society behind and continue their life in fourth density from that point forward.

They'll leave it behind when they are able to do so, which is quite a while according to our time standards.

"The space/time of your solar system has enabled this planetary sphere to spiral into space/time of a different vibrational configuration. This causes the planetary sphere to be able to be molded by these new distortions. " [and body complex to be formed from that material]

"This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration."

"The influxes of true color green energy complexes will more and more create the conditions in which the atomic structure of cells of bodily complexes is that of the density of love."

"Meanwhile there is another sphere, congruent to a great extent with yellow ray, forming. This fourth-density sphere coexists with first, second, and third. It is of a denser nature due to the rotational core atomic aspects of its material. "

"You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work."

"The fourth-density entities which incarnate at this space/time are fourth-density in the view of experience but are incarnating in less dense vehicles due to desire to experience and aid in the birth of fourth-density upon this plane."

"At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. "

That transition period is the period for the 4D sphere to be completed and incarnating body complexes to also be able to use the distributed material for their own body development. Just as the earth itself becomes formed from the material, by vibrating at 4D, so do the inhabitants by vibrating at 4D.

[unity100]

I understand that, but you're not taking into account the specifics of the quote. What do you say about "Once the healing has taken place the harvest may go forth unimpeded." If they were already harvested, the harvest wouldn't continue after healing had taken place.

can mean an endless number of things. harvesters are from next octave, even above the mind/body/spirit complex totality of any entity. the healing/balancing capacities at their hand would naturally be higher than anything in this octave. the broken entities may be healed by them, and then harvested.

I did a search in this thread for "population" and checked every one of your posts mentioning the word before I asked this, and just now. I don't see any specific calculations or mention of technologies or anything of that. Could it be in another thread? This conversation seems to be spanning a few threads and I've collapsed on this one without much regard for the others.

it may be in the mayan day/night cycles thread too. probably there.

[Tenet Nosce]

They'll leave it behind when they are able to do so, which is quite a while according to our time standards.

They will be able to do so immediately upon harvest. All entities are in time/space, and the incarnated entities are also in space/time. I explained this at some length earlier. Ra said that all harvested entities will die, according to third density necessities. Ra did not say that all entities will be harvested after they die. If anything, we are to take "harvest" and "death" to be simultaneous events. Apparently, in your view, Ra in addition to not knowing how to use words normally also doesn't know how to express tenses properly.

"The space/time of your solar system has enabled this planetary sphere to spiral into space/time of a different vibrational configuration. This causes the planetary sphere to be able to be molded by these new distortions. " [and body complex to be formed from that material]

Yes.. the space/time of a different vibrational configuration is fourth density. Earth (as in the planetary consciousness) is now in fourth density, and has been since at least 1981. The majority of its people are not, and their persistence upon this sphere is causing all manner of inconveniences and difficulty for everybody else.

"This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration."

Exactly. At that time. And before that time. And after that time. Ra didn't say at no other time was this sphere in fourth-dimension vibration. You are confusing a planet "being in fourth density" with having a fourth density planetary body physically inhabitable by fourth density sub-logoi. You also appear to be having the same sort of brain fart that Don was suffering from when he asked this question.

"The influxes of true color green energy complexes will more and more create the conditions in which the atomic structure of cells of bodily complexes is that of the density of love."

This is pretty much the only quote that seems more gradualist than sudden by virtue of the "more and more". It is also a reply to a fairly distorted query about "third-density harvestable who have been transferred". You are plucking this out of context... go back three responses:

Ra: I am Ra. At this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed. However, there is a mixture of the yellow-ray and green-ray environments at this time necessitating the birthing of transitional mind/body/spirit complex types of energy distortions. At full activation of the true color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. At this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

The sphere will be solid and inhabitable on its own. Not this sphere will transform itself into fourth density, which will look mostly like third density, replete with three gas stations on every corner and a McDonald's on every public block. Also, the green-ray environment was existing at THAT nexus (1981) in BOTH time/space AND space/time.

"Meanwhile there is another sphere, congruent to a great extent with yellow ray, forming. This fourth-density sphere coexists with first, second, and third. It is of a denser nature due to the rotational core atomic aspects of its material. "

Thanks for proving my point. It is another sphere. Not this sphere. Plain as day.

"You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work."

Yes, and? How does this refute anything I have been saying? Now, in 2011, thirty years after the contact, we can indeed see that there has been a "new breed" born throughout humanity. The observations of this statement are now in the PAST, relative to this current nexus. Hello? Have you been paying attention this whole time? Are you just too young to know the difference? Or are you too old to learn new tricks?

"The fourth-density entities which incarnate at this space/time are fourth-density in the view of experience but are incarnating in less dense vehicles due to desire to experience and aid in the birth of fourth-density upon this plane."

See above.

"At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. "

Again, plucked right out of context. This time, you didn't even include the whole quote.

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

This is difficult to estimate. There are uncharacteristic anomalies. There were, in 1981, those incarnate who were already on 4D lessons. The 3D climate is retarding the process. Finally, this cannot be accurate, Ra says.

So, this cannot be accurate, but we are going to take it anyway. Moreover, we are going to build an ENTIRE THEORY based upon this one quote talking about "100 and 700 years" while COMPLETELY IGNORING the cues in the rest of the reply that basically say "disregard this answer". And not only THAT but we are going to stick to our guns despite being presented OVER AND OVER AGAIN with other quotes that CLEARLY POINT to another idea, and moreover are CLEARLY worded, plain as day, with NO CAVEATS from Ra to be cautious about taking the statement at face value.

So here you have thrown out a few quotes which I have shown to be highly coherent with my view. Two of them are being taken out of context, and used as the entire foundation of the gradualist theory, which directly contradicts the entire rest of the material.

On the other hand, I and others have REPEATEDLY put out SLEWS of quotes that DIRECTLY CONTRADICT your view... and you continue to COMPLETELY IGNORE THEM.

I just wrote a whole freaking post to you full of quotes to support my view, and you (YET AGAIN) flat out ignored them completely. Not only THAT, but you also ignored the fact that I SPECIFICALLY SAID that you have been ignoring two of those quotes, in particular.

Do you really expect to have a conversation with somebody if you repeatedly IGNORE what they say and just REPEAT YOURSELF, ad nauseum? I mean, really, is this how you interact with others in your everyday life? I'm sorry, but to move forward in this discussion, the burden of proof is on YOU to show how all these other quotes can be reconciled with your view.

At this point, it appears to me that you are just being rude, inconsiderate, and more concerned with being "right" in your own mind than teach/learning something. Either that or you are willfully derailing threads on purpose just to cause a ruckus. Or possibly that your mind is so discombobulated that you can't even follow a logical discussion, or understand the basic fundamentals of argumentation and debate.

[Tenet Nosce]

7 - 10 billion harvested souls

Where did this number come from?

Also, please see Harvest: Do The Math, if you haven't already.

---

[The following is not a reply to βαθμιαίος]

Hey, how bout we forget about Ra for a minute and see what Q'uo has to say on the matter:

G: M writes, “I would like to ask Q’uo what is the fate of the veil on this planet beginning in 2013 and continuing in time thereafter? Will it gradually dissolve? If so, at approximately what rate? Please describe how this occurrence will affect the planet and the third-density entities upon it as much as you can without infringing on the Law of Confusion. Thank you.”

Great question, M! And seemingly pertinent to this discussion.

We are those of Q’uo, and we thank the one known as M for this query. When one is, as you are, possessed of physical senses which perceive a physical world, it is completely understandable that you would not necessarily grasp the concept that all apparently solid objects are actually fields of energy.

Ah, so this concept is hard to grasp.

As fields of energy, the closest that they come to matter is small fields of energy within the larger and encompassing field of energy which are called atoms. However, from your scientists you have received the information that even these points of matter, so called, are in fact energy fields, that matter has never been seen by your keenest telescope. Rather, it is the path of energy that is seen. And you know from your scientists that an atom consists almost entirely of space. We mention these scientific facts to you so that you may begin to wrap your mind around the concept of the nested densities of the creation.

Yes, let's see if we can begin to wrap our minds around the concept, shall we?

Third-density Earth is nested within fourth-density Earth. It is not the same Earth as fourth-density Earth.

Perhaps this is a metaphorical way for Q'uo to say that third-density earth is really the same as fourth-density earth, depending on what we choose to believe about it.

Third-density Earth will not become fourth-density Earth, any more than first-density Earth became second-density Earth, or second-density Earth became third-density Earth.

Plain. As. Day.

These densities are nested in such a way as to occupy the same area or influence within space/time and time/space, held lovingly by the overarching energy field of your sun.

Space/time AND time/space. That means both, simultaneously. As in: all together at once.

Third-density Earth is an Earth whose light is waning. While it will remain third-density, it will no longer support third-density entities in their seeking of the truth.

Gotcha. This implies that the third-density entities will shortly be leaving this sphere. However many millions, or billions, of them there are.

Thusly, third density is shortly to become inactive, we would say, within three or four hundred of your years beyond 2012.

AHA! Here it is, the smoking gun of the gradualist theory of harvest!

No, actually this doesn't say anything about a prolonged harvest period lasting hundreds of years. It is saying that 3D earth will continue to persist for a few more hundred years, post-harvest. But even then, it will END. Done. Kaput. There one minute, gone the next.

Some of the more gnarly details of such a move from pre-harvest to post-harvest third-density earth is discussed in Post-harvest continuity of consciousness.

Thusly, 2013 upon your planet will look very much like 2012 upon your planet.

Yes, to those who are still here.

However, you will find that your population of entities grows more and more interested and fascinated with the reparation of the Earth and the healing of what you call your Mother Earth or Gaia.

Interesting. That seems like a pretty dramatic shift in gears. Now what kind of entities do you suppose will take on this task? And moreover... what really is to be "repaired" when fourth density earth is already alive and well? Hrmmm. Maybe what is meant is to "make reparations" to earth for being a bunch of jackasses this last 75,000 years. I don't see this as a "reward" for having brought so much "love and light" to the earth, as has been suggested in Harvest: Do The Math.

Those who incarnate at this time upon Planet Earth, that is, after 2012, will be those whose experiences in other incarnations have carried with them an element of adhering karma because of the destruction of their Earth whether it be this Earth and the destruction of Atlantis, or Maldek, or Mars, or several other Earths that created an uninhabitable third-density planet and thusly needed to finish third density upon Planet Earth.

What? Several other earths that created uninhabitable third-density planets? Hrmmm... sounds like some of these jackasses have been up to no good for much longer than 75,000 years.

There are quite a few millions of those who feel that desire at this time to be part of the healing of the Mother. And there is great joy in contemplating that healing.

Awesome! And yet this is not harvest.

Fourth-density Earth is an entirely different sphere, within which third density is nested.

Just in case it wasn't crystal clear the last time.

And as fourth-density light becomes that which your sun is capable of offering, that fourth-density Earth shall more and more become populated by those from third-density Earth who have graduated in a positive sense and wish to move on.

Those who wish to move on. After they learn/teach whatever they wanted to teach/learn through the experience of healing a badly battered sphere which is on its way out. This is like hospice care for the planet. It will probably involve figuring out what to do with the untold empty carcasses lying around the place. And a perfectly reasonable choice, considering such an entity's past. But it is not harvest.

It will be a long time before entities who are inhabiting third density will be able to see entities of fourth density. However, they are as real and as physical, shall we say, to themselves and to fourth-density Earth as you are to your Earth.

Seems pretty straightforward, and entirely consistent with what Ra said.

We realize that this is one of the less comfortable or naturally obvious concepts having to do with the concept of densities.

Less comfortable and less naturally obvious. What? You mean it will not all be candy canes and sugar plum fairies from 2012 on out?

So, yes, I can the see the reason for difficulty with understanding. What I don't understand is a stubborn resistance to release old ideas in order to increase understanding, or to make a flat out denial that it is possible, to even the least degree, to understand.

It is natural for a person to think that this same Earth upon which your feet make footsteps shall become fourth density and that on this same Earth, fourth density shall take place.

It is natural to think such things, but thinking them does not, in fact, "make it so". Sorry, Picard, but it looks like you will have to stay in The Treehuggers' Treehouse along with your warp drive and holodeck.

However, we would suggest to you that it is much like wanting to take your physical body with you when you pass from physical life upon this planet and hoping to drag what this instrument would call this chemical distillery of a body into fourth density and attempt to lug it around when everyone else is dancing with a much lighter and electrically driven rather than chemically driven body.

I call this "wishful thinking to the extreme". Also I would point out that the description here between the electrically and chemically driven body is precisely the same as offered by Ra.

And when you add all of those who are not physically in this room but who have moved into the energy of this particular circle of seeking by the questioning that they offer, then that lighthouse energy becomes exponentially greater.

That would be us, by the way.

[drifting pages]

People will believe in whatever they want. Regardless...

So there.

Is that irritating to you ?

I've gotten everything figured out peeps, if you are not agreeing with me something is obviously wrong with you.

The truth shines and i hold it before my eyes.

----

Thre was a time that i cared so much about all that...

Now whatever is whatever...

[zenmaster]

To imagine a situation where a certain portion of the population started to form a social memory complex, but another part of the population was left out... I mean.. the only word that really comes to mind is disabling.

I don't agree with your whole premise, so it's kind of like you asking me when did you stop beating your wife? The 3D population stops being born. Quite a simple solution to your dilemma, but one which you conveniently continue to ignore.

[unity100]

People will believe in whatever they want. Regardless...

So there.

Is that irritating to you ?

I've gotten everything figured out peeps, if you are not agreeing with me something is obviously wrong with you.

The truth shines and i hold it before my eyes.

----

Thre was a time that i cared so much about all that...

Now whatever is whatever...

there is something that irritates me actually. it is double standards. called hypocrisy by some, but in this cases, more double standards or 'selective application' of information.

entity exhibits approach/behavior/mindset A for 9 separate subjects. and when an uncomfortable subject comes up that touches entity's biases, entity suddenly reverses the behavior/mindset/approach A to approach B, and defends that doing as such is still valid. then the subject passes and another subject comes, and entity again reverts to set A.

leaving all the stuff regarding how these make beneficial exchange of information and thoughts inefficient, it is also something that would prevent entity from moving forward with whatever real approach s/he is maintaining.

---

To imagine a situation where a certain portion of the population started to form a social memory complex, but another part of the population was left out... I mean.. the only word that really comes to mind is disabling.

I don't agree with your whole premise, so it's kind of like you asking me when did you stop beating your wife? The 3D population stops being born. Quite a simple solution to your dilemma, but one which you conveniently continue to ignore.

and how does that happen.

3d population just 'stops being born' ?

in 100 years (im giving a very comfortable time) people become unable to bear children, and this will not reflect in overall consciousness of the population ? 'mankind is ending' !! what would the ramifications of this would be ?

3d population stops being born ?

we are already able to clone people i very much suspect. the only reason it is not being done out in the open is the public animosity against this. very probably in some secret lab under public or private ownership, these experiments are being conducted. even if they are not, when a situation like you describe happens, they will suddenly become valid and necessary and noone will be able to justify otherwise. and they will probably succeed in short while, given the technical amenities which were given to this planet up to this point. (and still increasing).

and how will you prevent birthing of 3d population then ? totally leaving out the fact that even if it 'naturally' stops over a period of 100 years, still hundreds of millions would be born.

[Tenet Nosce]

Thre was a time that i cared so much about all that...

Now whatever is whatever...

Awesome! Congratulations on having found such peace within yourself. So tell me... what is your purpose in this thread, then? To share some of the peace you have with us, who are so stupidly and misguidedly seeking greater understanding? Or just to further derail the thread by throwing out yet another sideways remark, and drawing attention to yourself?

Wow... you must think L/L is a bunch of imbeciles continuing to channel Q'uo after all this time. As we all obviously know:

No amount of seeking within the intellectual concepts of your people, no amount of careful planning or careful interpretation of the written or spoken word will lead you to the simple truth.

We'll just kindly overlook the opening of this very same paragraph by declaring it to be "not resonant" with "our truth":

It is very difficult for the peoples of this planet to give up their illusion, to give up the preconceived knowledge of what they believe to be cause and effect. However, this is not reality. This is illusion, born of illusion.

Nah. I want to keep my illusions. One of them being that I am open-minded person seeking truth through discussion on an Internet forum. But secretly, I will stubbornly hold on to my illusions and preconceived notions, and cross my fingers hoping nobody sees through the facade.

[zenmaster]

To imagine a situation where a certain portion of the population started to form a social memory complex, but another part of the population was left out... I mean.. the only word that really comes to mind is disabling.

I don't agree with your whole premise, so it's kind of like you asking me when did you stop beating your wife? The 3D population stops being born. Quite a simple solution to your dilemma, but one which you conveniently continue to ignore.

and how does that happen.

3d population just 'stops being born' ?

in 100 years (im giving a very comfortable time) people become unable to bear children, and this will not reflect in overall consciousness of the population ? 'mankind is ending' !! what would the ramifications of this would be ?

3d population stops being born ?

we are already able to clone people i very much suspect. the only reason it is not being done out in the open is the public animosity against this. very probably in some secret lab under public or private ownership, these experiments are being conducted. even if they are not, when a situation like you describe happens, they will suddenly become valid and necessary and noone will be able to justify otherwise. and they will probably succeed in short while, given the technical amenities which were given to this planet up to this point. (and still increasing).

and how will you prevent birthing of 3d population then ? totally leaving out the fact that even if it 'naturally' stops over a period of 100 years, still hundreds of millions would be born.

I'm not preventing it, the local vibrational environment prevents it. For the millionth time (it seems), entities with 3D-max vibration gets 'harvested' (to another 3D planet, eventually) Reason? Less and less learning experience for 3D available. 3D learns and individuates sufficiently due to societal support which provides a structure for projection (compelling indentification). That support, for third density, is of the yellow-ray vibration which wanes (like the sunset on the banner above).

[unity100]

I'm not preventing it, the local vibrational environment prevents it. For the millionth time (it seems), entities with 3D-max vibration gets 'harvested' (to another 3D planet, eventually) Reason? Less and less learning experience for 3D available. 3D learns and individuates sufficiently due to societal support which provides a structure for projection (compelling indentification). That support, for third density, is of the yellow-ray vibration which wanes (like the sunset on the banner above).

you are missing out on the fact that if the vibration of 3d that allows the manifestation of red ray reproduction stops, along with it a lot of other things would probably stop.

[Tenet Nosce]

entity exhibits approach/behavior/mindset A for 9 separate subjects. and when an uncomfortable subject comes up that touches entity's biases, entity suddenly reverses the behavior/mindset/approach A to approach B, and defends that doing as such is still valid. then the subject passes and another subject comes, and entity again reverts to set A.

In a word: sophistry. Especially HERE in a forum ostensibly for spiritual seekers it is particularly irritating. But perhaps even more ironically, it is extremely depolarizing, and a disservice to everybody else trying to have a real discussion.

Of course, according to the mystical magical mirror of subjectivity, it is apparently you and I mucking everything up with our annoying quotes, logical thinking, and thirst for truth. It is you and I who are too stupid or imperceptive to see the "real" truth that the whole of enlightenment and spiritual growth can be summed up in a turd. Because a turd is just a symbol for the universe. And whether or not a turd stinks is purely the result of our believing that it carries the property of "stinkiness". And only if we can learn to love and accept the turd, we would allow it to take up residence in our home. Then when our friends and family come to visit, and are appalled at the resident stinkiness of the turd, we shall use it as an opportunity to chastise them for being judgmental, and then turn it to the positive by explaining to them how a turd is simply a metaphor for greater reality, and invite them to step into the grand mystery of the turd with us, together as one. Next, we shall cover the turd in whipped cream and sprinkles, and put a cherry on top, and we shall officially declare that in our reality there is no such thing as "stinkiness". Then we shall channel the turd, meticulously transcribing its every word, while simultaneously declaring that the turd's words are inherently meaningless, and beyond our comprehension. Therefore, we will conclude that the only thing the turd could have possibly had to say to us is to "Seize the Day!", "Love One Another!", "Do Your Best!", and just keep practicing our meditation. Because one day all that meditation is going to pay off when we finally open ourselves up to even grander levels of confusion and meaningless existence. And then we will understand the ULTIMATE TRUTH: There is no turd.

Thanks, everybody, for coming out this evening. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Have a wonderful night, and keep safe out there! *curtain falls and crickets are chirping in the background*

[zenmaster]

I'm not preventing it, the local vibrational environment prevents it. For the millionth time (it seems), entities with 3D-max vibration gets 'harvested' (to another 3D planet, eventually) Reason? Less and less learning experience for 3D available. 3D learns and individuates sufficiently due to societal support which provides a structure for projection (compelling indentification). That support, for third density, is of the yellow-ray vibration which wanes (like the sunset on the banner above).

you are missing out on the fact that if the vibration of 3d that allows the manifestation of red ray reproduction stops, along with it a lot of other things would probably stop.

By that time, there will be 3D/4D entities.

---

In a word: sophistry. Especially HERE in a forum ostensibly for spiritual seekers it is particularly irritating.

Use your failed projections as catalyst and learn. Can't have it your way all the time.

[drifting pages]

"And then we will understand the ULTIMATE TRUTH: There is no turd."


*ohhhh, you get it now*




But seriously you were hilarious just now, i really think laughing is the best thing.


From the mystical magical mirror of subjectivity


Gnight to you too !



Edit: And relating to your first post, i posted here because i was bored and felt inspired to spread a little of my own turd around.

Take what you will.

[Tenet Nosce]

Use your failed projections as catalyst and learn. Can't have it your way all the time.

Yes, zenmaster, I will surely use this opportunity to acknowledge my low self esteem and hopefully learn to accept myself and others more fully. Thanks, O Wise One, for helping me to see through my own facade. I know that I have repeatedly said that I am not here to convince everybody, but that was just a lie. I have been secretly hoping this whole time that you, zenmaster, will suddenly turn around and agree with me. Maybe even sing my praises? Because my ego is so fragile that I desperately need you to approve of what I am saying in order to feel validated. But you have been extremely loving and excessively wise in your ignoring of my antics. Eventually, my temper tantrum will end, and I will cry myself to sleep having accepted the futility of trying to twist the whole of the Ra material in order to accommodate my highly distorted belief system, which I have created as a self-defense mechanism to protect myself from the extreme state of self-loathing that is constantly lurking in the background of my experience.

[unity100]

I'm not preventing it, the local vibrational environment prevents it. For the millionth time (it seems), entities with 3D-max vibration gets 'harvested' (to another 3D planet, eventually) Reason? Less and less learning experience for 3D available. 3D learns and individuates sufficiently due to societal support which provides a structure for projection (compelling indentification). That support, for third density, is of the yellow-ray vibration which wanes (like the sunset on the banner above).

you are missing out on the fact that if the vibration of 3d that allows the manifestation of red ray reproduction stops, along with it a lot of other things would probably stop.

By that time, there will be 3D/4D entities.

im at a failure to see why you are still not able to understand this :

if the rays that support the bodily or other functions of entities stop, even gradually, people would start dropping like flies. its not something like 'powering down x percent' step by step -> energies supply the body, which is an intricate mechanism with its functional energies. reduction of these energies would mean a body function would go haywire or off at every given level.

if, the rays stop suddenly, they would drop out instantly.

Use your failed projections as catalyst and learn. Can't have it your way all the time.

i will have to agree with tenet on this. one liner rationalization-free random flings are definitely not useful. i think its better i stopped replying to you in this topic. or at least, until your mayan night crankiness passes.

[Tenet Nosce]

Randy: We have finally found something worthwhile! Something to upstage the f^(&ing baby boomers!

Waitress: Watch your mouths.

Nelson: I found something. OK? Let's not forget that.

Joe: I came back from the dead tonight.

Waitress: Doesn't surprise me. We had Elvis in here last night.

Rachel: Joe, did you find it difficult in the end, getting back?

Joe: No, not that I remember.

David: Oh, but you remember everything else, right? Know what? I think you guys are full of s#!t. I'm not buying any of this.

Nelson: Hell, I wouldn't buy any of it either, unless I had been there. So, what about it Dave?

Joe: Yeah, you're an atheist, you've got nothing to lose, right?

Rachel: I'm going next!

David: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Nobody is going next. You're looking for answers? There are no answers here. I... I... I think you just saw what you wanted to see. Give it up! It's getting too dangerous.

Nelson: Who the hell are you to...

Rachel: We can't turn back now, I'm going further.

[unity100]

i find too much spunk to be equally uninspiring and inefficient too.

[zenmaster]

I'm not preventing it, the local vibrational environment prevents it. For the millionth time (it seems), entities with 3D-max vibration gets 'harvested' (to another 3D planet, eventually) Reason? Less and less learning experience for 3D available. 3D learns and individuates sufficiently due to societal support which provides a structure for projection (compelling indentification). That support, for third density, is of the yellow-ray vibration which wanes (like the sunset on the banner above).

you are missing out on the fact that if the vibration of 3d that allows the manifestation of red ray reproduction stops, along with it a lot of other things would probably stop.

By that time, there will be 3D/4D entities.

im at a failure to see why you are still not able to understand this :

if the rays that support the bodily or other functions of entities stop, even gradually, people would start dropping like flies. its not something like 'powering down x percent' step by step -> energies supply the body, which is an intricate mechanism with its functional energies. reduction of these energies would mean a body function would go haywire or off at every given level.

if, the rays stop suddenly, they would drop out instantly.

Nope, doesn't work that way. I don't agree with your premise. 'Yellow-ray' does not provide life for 3D life forms. It provides the vibration necessary to have a societal 'surrogate mind'. Learning to own that aspect of mind, individuation to a certain degree, is part of the polarization process here.

Doesn't matter really. The gradual vs sudden can not be proven or demonstrated. The gradualists will continue to maintain their perspective, and the 'event' people will continue to maintain theirs (well into the years ahead). It's funny.

---

Use your failed projections as catalyst and learn. Can't have it your way all the time.

i will have to agree with tenet on this. one liner rationalization-free random flings are definitely not useful. i think its better i stopped replying to you in this topic. or at least, until your mayan night crankiness passes.

Amazingly, creating needless confusion for others is not useful. I'm at a loss why you continue to do this.

[unity100]

Amazingly, creating needless confusion for others is not useful. I'm at a loss why you continue to do this.

then amazingly, i cut discussing with you. thank you for your discussion and pointless one liners.

[Tenet Nosce]

.....