Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods

[Bring4th_Austin]

I think it's more "icky" than freightening. But, in this hypothetical, can we turn it off and on? Or is it anybody within 2 meters is automatically in your head? And if their thoughts are in your head can you pull away and forget about their thoughts, or have the two become one forever? So many scenarios.

I don't think it is something that can be turned off, completely anyways. The impression I get, from fairly recent experiences as well as piecing together clues from Ra and other channels, is that being "near" 4D entities, in a 4D environment I suppose, gives you rather unfiltered and complete access to their being. No clue exactly how this works with beings within a social memory complex or with telepathic communication.

[AnthroHeart]

What I gather is that being near a 4D entity would sort of reprogram our fields automatically. Not a bad thing if you're open to evolving, but could be a little uncomfortable because it would immediately have you face your deep fears, and darkness within you, and possibly produce some major detox of the body.

[AnthroHeart]

Calleman posted his 5th night of the 9th wave article.

http://www.calleman.com/content/articles...thWave.htm

[StormShadow]

I think it's more "icky" than freightening. But, in this hypothetical, can we turn it off and on? Or is it anybody within 2 meters is automatically in your head? And if their thoughts are in your head can you pull away and forget about their thoughts, or have the two become one forever? So many scenarios.

I've had a little bit of experience with what I think is an analogous process, and I can describe it a bit:
The first time you connect, it is overwhelming, since you are basically downloading a lot of history. It's a little like connecting to Usenet, where you have to download so many thousands of header files before you can look around and start reading. So you get an impression of not only what the person is thinking right now, but of their history up to that point in time as well. You can probably forget about it once you finish processing it, but I imagine that, depending on the person, there may be some difficulty, especially if there are any memories that really stand out.
Once you've got everything loaded (which takes no time, only your processing of such takes any time) it basically feels like being in someone else's skin with them. You're in there, and you can share whatever you want to share. Remember when you were little, and you'd go over to a friend's house to sleep over, and right after you went to bed, before you fell asleep, it'd be the two of you under the covers with a flashlight, reading comic books together or whispering secrets to each other? It kinda feels close to that, but more so, since the "covers" are the borders of your respective consciousnesses.
I don't know how it works in 4th density, but I had the impression that it was voluntary. I could have pulled back if I wanted to, as could she have, but apparently neither of us wanted to, and I'm glad for that, because it was an incredible thing while it lasted.

[zenmaster]

"Unfortunately, billions of people lack basic knowledge about the Mayan calendar or even when its end date is and without this basic knowledge it is not easy to understand what is happening in the world." WTF.

And apparently even with this 'basic knowledge', you too Calleman apparently have difficulty in understanding what is happening to the world, as the constant revisionism indicates. Now, instead of it being the end date of 'the system', it's looking like the beginning of the end, which of course finally provides a loose enough framework where interpretations based on dates or timing must degrade into an ad hoc and meaningless dream world of free invention.

[Raman]

"Unfortunately, billions of people lack basic knowledge about the Mayan calendar or even when its end date is and without this basic knowledge it is not easy to understand what is happening in the world." WTF.

And apparently even with this 'basic knowledge', you too Calleman apparently have difficulty in understanding what is happening to the world, as the constant revisionism indicates. Now, instead of it being the end date of 'the system', it's looking like the beginning of the end, which of course finally provides a loose enough framework where interpretations based on dates or timing must degrade into an ad hoc and meaningless dream world of free invention.

Man , this 'world of ideas' thing really seems to be stuck in your head.

Harvest, 4th density activation, are crucial and pivotal points of the Ra material.
Reality for you seems to be based mostly on yellow ray concepts. Just my opinion.

[zenmaster]

Reality for you seems to be based mostly on yellow ray concepts. Just my opinion.

You mean like the importance various imagined scenarios projected on
world events and other such speculation? Yes, the prediction business is booming.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Harvest, 4th density activation, are crucial and pivotal points of the Ra material.

Pivotal points which were unfortunately talked about so vaguely and with such ambiguity which, if nothing "noticeable" happens in 50 years, we could still interpret the Ra material as accurate and keep on hoping for some grand event.

[Raman]

.......

[hogey11]

Harvest, 4th density activation, are crucial and pivotal points of the Ra material.

Pivotal points which were unfortunately talked about so vaguely and with such ambiguity which, if nothing "noticeable" happens in 50 years, we could still interpret the Ra material as accurate and keep on hoping for some grand event.

I feel some posters here have argued this point into the ground and they've argued it well, but I don't agree with it.

Yes, there is a vagueness to Ra's predictions and explanations; I always refer back to the grocery store analogy Ra gave when speaking of probabilities/possibilities. However, i'm actually quite taken aback by the amount of people who are flat out denying the validity of the harvest itself. Now, many of us here will squeal and squirm and say we're not denying anything, but if we're sitting here 5 years from now without any major changes in the world it will be hard to take this stuff very seriously anymore. Point blank. The Law of One suddenly becomes a 'couple books with some cool concepts' and nothing more. I think people are avoiding this.

For myself, I would understand where zen is coming from if the world was calm and moderate; it's not. Extremes of all sorts are coming to the surface, from natural disasters to global economic health. Plutocracy is destroying the first-world economies, and the corruption in business and politics is now blatantly obvious. The world is blowing up; you cannot deny this. The question is going to be: do we recover from this, and are we better off because of it? In this way, I am hopeful that we see the dawn of a new age and the 'death' of our confused minds.

If Ra spoke in nothing but allegories like zenmaster concludes, then I am quite unsure of the future. The world needs not to preserve itself at this junction, but instead transform itself to serve many instead of few. Without a big push, we will not get there. Let's hope the harvest is that big push.

[Edinburgh]

For myself, I would understand where zen is coming from if the world was calm and moderate; it's not. Extremes of all sorts are coming to the surface, from natural disasters to global economic health. Plutocracy is destroying the first-world economies, and the corruption in business and politics is now blatantly obvious. The world is blowing up; you cannot deny this. The question is going to be: do we recover from this, and are we better off because of it? In this way, I am hopeful that we see the dawn of a new age and the 'death' of our confused minds.

If Ra spoke in nothing but allegories like zenmaster concludes, then I am quite unsure of the future. The world needs not to preserve itself at this junction, but instead transform itself to serve many instead of few. Without a big push, we will not get there. Let's hope the harvest is that big push.

I also see where zen is coming from - we've had so many predictions the past dozen years, the mind boggles. Its not unreasaonble to be slightly sceptical at times. I also have doubts at times. Then, I see or read something that makes me feel that the Law of One material is fundamentally correct.

In terms of the harvest being a clear cut event, for me the change in perspective came when I listened to the Quo reading, again and again. It seemed to state a non-dramatic change, that would last quite a long time.

Suddenly the harvest became less and less a big game changer, but rather a more subtle effect. Maybe it would be the time more 4D babies were born, indigo children in the masses? Maybe telepathy would become more obvious? These kind of changes would bring about a more gradual change to 4D.

Hence, the harvest would be a discrete moment as unity describes, as the start of something is a discrete moment. Going on from that, the following change to 4D could take several hundred years of time to become fully realised. During this time, life could be changing, as it has now, quite dramatically in our traditional market based economy and something more subtle could evolve.

As Hogey says though, the world is getting close to being on the edge, this is unmistakable ... as Bob Dylan said, 'the times they are a' changin'

[zenmaster]

Harvest, 4th density activation, are crucial and pivotal points of the Ra material.

Pivotal points which were unfortunately talked about so vaguely and with such ambiguity which, if nothing "noticeable" happens in 50 years, we could still interpret the Ra material as accurate and keep on hoping for some grand event.

I feel some posters here have argued this point into the ground and they've argued it well, but I don't agree with it.

Yes, there is a vagueness to Ra's predictions and explanations; I always refer back to the grocery store analogy Ra gave when speaking of probabilities/possibilities. However, i'm actually quite taken aback by the amount of people who are flat out denying the validity of the harvest itself. Now, many of us here will squeal and squirm and say we're not denying anything, but if we're sitting here 5 years from now without any major changes in the world it will be hard to take this stuff very seriously anymore. Point blank.

And that's your right to not take it seriously, to follow your desire and to interpret any changes as incidental, confirming, pertinent, indicative, as being 'major' or 'minor', as you see fit.

For myself, I would understand where zen is coming from if the world was calm and moderate; it's not. Extremes of all sorts are coming to the surface, from natural disasters to global economic health. Plutocracy is destroying the first-world economies, and the corruption in business and politics is now blatantly obvious. The world is blowing up; you cannot deny this. The question is going to be: do we recover from this, and are we better off because of it? In this way, I am hopeful that we see the dawn of a new age and the 'death' of our confused minds.

Hope and fear are opposites. Projecting hopes into the future does nothing at all to address what is happening, it actually reinforces the illusion (the confused minds) by anticipating that which is not real, but only desired to be so in such and such a manner.

If Ra spoke in nothing but allegories like zenmaster concludes, then I am quite unsure of the future.

Who concluded that Ra spoke in nothing but allegories? That seems like unsupported projection, or you're being disingenuous.

The world needs not to preserve itself at this junction, but instead transform itself to serve many instead of few. Without a big push, we will not get there. Let's hope the harvest is that big push.

Yes, maybe it will be 'change we can believe in'. We can turn this thread into a focus group and elicit speculations and fantasy on the matter. The future is enabled from the present, unless we have a huge free-will infringement it will be, to a large extent, based on who we choose to be now - in this moment - not then.

---

I also see where zen is coming from - we've had so many predictions the past dozen years, the mind boggles. Its not unreasaonble to be slightly sceptical at times.

I wonder if you guys have been following Calleman since the beginning (not just in the past couple of years)? Using the (hyper)intuition to project meaningful shapes from ephemeral cloudscapes is, and has been, the primary focus. He created a system, and then constantly reinterprets what it might mean in light of current events. Look, this is precisely the same modality of any divination system. Credence given to it is based on resonance with the particular transformative idea he constantly re-attempts to associate with social circumstances.

[3DMonkey]

Zenmaster, you do have a post from a week or so ago with the statement "everything is allegory". I don't think you were stAting it as your stance but rather within an example. (it required 3 read thrus to understand that).

[unity100]

"Unfortunately, billions of people lack basic knowledge about the Mayan calendar or even when its end date is and without this basic knowledge it is not easy to understand what is happening in the world." WTF.

And apparently even with this 'basic knowledge', you too Calleman apparently have difficulty in understanding what is happening to the world, as the constant revisionism indicates. Now, instead of it being the end date of 'the system', it's looking like the beginning of the end, which of course finally provides a loose enough framework where interpretations based on dates or timing must degrade into an ad hoc and meaningless dream world of free invention.

im at a failure to understand your problem.

anything requires basic knowledge of that particular thing to understand it. without basic knowledge, you wont understand anything about that thing. you can just 'feel'.

revisionism ? whats the problem there ? numerous physical laws that were told to be constant were revisioned recently, in the light of new knowledge gained from new experiments. so, the problem with someone working on mayan history and lore doing revisions, is a problem, why exactly ?

not to mention new things are discovered about these ancient civilizations - just 2-3 days ago mexican government has declared that it was going to release information about mayan calendar in the classified mexican govt. files to the public, in the form of a documentary. they discovered that mayans had the habit of building pyramids over pyramids, and there were unexplored rooms under the entire pyramids themselves.

mexican government may release truthful information, or fud to confuse and ease public about mayan calendar. this is open for debate.

what is apparent is that, there is more discovered but unreleased than we already know. this basically means, we dont know all that there is to know about these civilizations.

Reality for you seems to be based mostly on yellow ray concepts. Just my opinion.

You mean like the importance various imagined scenarios projected on
world events and other such speculation? Yes, the prediction business is booming.

and this is the main problem. you have yet to explain why are you so disturbed with the possibility of any kin of 'scenario' based on ANYthing, but the scenario about 'seamless living and harvest upon death' scenario you expressed you ascribed to later.

I wonder if you guys have been following Calleman since the beginning (not just in the past couple of years)? Using the (hyper)intuition to project meaningful shapes from ephemeral cloudscapes is, and has been, the primary focus. He created a system, and then constantly reinterprets what it might mean in light of current events. Look, this is precisely the same modality of any divination system. Credence given to it is based on resonance with the particular transformative idea he constantly re-attempts to associate with social circumstances.

edison didnt even do that - but instead invented with his 'gut'. which was something tesla disliked a lot. yet, he invented.

what you speak of as the '(hyper)intuition to project meaningful anything from ephemeral anything' basically is the definition of grasping the existence of unshaped thoughts and concepts from the vagueness of subconscious.

it is the process of inspiration and muse, and it is the act of attempting to pierce what is named as veil.

[hogey11]

Why do probabilities/possibilities bother you so much? Every day, our P/P changes. The P/P of us exploring more of space, of us discovering and delineating free energy, stopping all wars, etc. You act as if we need these dynamics to continue or else everything will go sour or something... Why?

What I meant by you saying 'everything is allegory' is just from my observation that you feel much of the "exopolitical" stuff is garbage and instead all of this stuff happens between incarnations. That is fine and well, but it completely ignores the fact that this planet is said very clearly by Ra to be slated to become a 4D positive planet beyond the harvest. I believe the harvest will be both a gradual shift as well as a singular moment; I believe each side will have its role in this.

That being said, I think I understand why you would think this way as well. It's 'safe'; Ive been wanting a more safe place to have my thoughts as well lately. By believing in the harvest and a shift in consciousness, I am putting myself out on a ledge. I may look like a fool. However, I do not believe that all is derivative of purely the self. There are times where other-selves can enter the equation as well, and I believe this is where change will happen. For it is the calling of many that will change the world, not the opining of a single soul, imo.

Yes, maybe it will be 'change we can believe in'. We can turn this thread into a focus group and elicit speculations and fantasy on the matter. The future is enabled from the present, unless we have a huge free-will infringement it will be, to a large extent, based on who we choose to be now - in this moment - not then.

What is fantasy about the matter? What world do you live in? Go to any market-based website and read all the projections from the last month. The world economy is on the brink of disaster. The only thing keeping us afloat is the fact that the majority of people haven't realized the only way out is to print a whole bunch of money that didn't exist yesterday, thereby undermining the entire system. The US is a mess and Europe is an even bigger one. These 'doomsday' and 'utopia' scenarios are not far-fetched; I can confirm this just from short conversations with my still-heavily-sleeping friends who have yet to awaken. Even they are aware of a change in the paradigm.

So lets take the world at face value and add in all this 2012 hullabaloo. As mentioned before, if the world were any shade of 'normal' right now, I would be having plenty of thought similar to zenmaster. The problem is that the tensions are all invariably rising, and there is going to be a change at some watershed moment. Anybody who wants to argue that hasn't been paying attention to history. There is ALWAYS change. We are on the precipice of it now in our own lives.

Zen, you mention something here that makes me think that you are not really thinking this all through. You say that 'the future is enabled by the present' and I cannot agree more with you. My question to you is how you cannot see us stepping up in the present with the world in it's current state; do you think as a whole we are happy?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Harvest, 4th density activation, are crucial and pivotal points of the Ra material.

Pivotal points which were unfortunately talked about so vaguely and with such ambiguity which, if nothing "noticeable" happens in 50 years, we could still interpret the Ra material as accurate and keep on hoping for some grand event.

Yes, there is a vagueness to Ra's predictions and explanations; I always refer back to the grocery store analogy Ra gave when speaking of probabilities/possibilities. However, i'm actually quite taken aback by the amount of people who are flat out denying the validity of the harvest itself. Now, many of us here will squeal and squirm and say we're not denying anything, but if we're sitting here 5 years from now without any major changes in the world it will be hard to take this stuff very seriously anymore. Point blank. The Law of One suddenly becomes a 'couple books with some cool concepts' and nothing more. I think people are avoiding this.

I definitely wouldn't view it that way. I mean, 5 years is awfully strict, considering Ra constantly pointed out their problems with numbers, and used the terms "approximately" or "this is an approximation" and "we speak in generalities" (which they said themselves is dangerous). It is your right to not take the information seriously if the harvest doesn't happen the way you feel it was supposed to, but that's really the essence of what I'm speaking about. Expectations can be frivolous and dangerous.

For myself, I would understand where zen is coming from if the world was calm and moderate; it's not. Extremes of all sorts are coming to the surface, from natural disasters to global economic health. Plutocracy is destroying the first-world economies, and the corruption in business and politics is now blatantly obvious. The world is blowing up; you cannot deny this. The question is going to be: do we recover from this, and are we better off because of it? In this way, I am hopeful that we see the dawn of a new age and the 'death' of our confused minds.

There's no doubt that we're going through some transitional period right now, and linking this to the idea of harvest and 4D incoming is a leap of faith I feel most here are willing to make, but how long this period will last and whether or not there will be a noticeable event to get us to the other side is not clear at all in the Ra material.

If Ra spoke in nothing but allegories like zenmaster concludes, then I am quite unsure of the future. The world needs not to preserve itself at this junction, but instead transform itself to serve many instead of few. Without a big push, we will not get there. Let's hope the harvest is that big push.

Ra was very specific about many things, unfortunately, for some reason, Don never pushed the questions on Harvest enough to get a clear answer. Don got close to asking a good question, asking if Harvest will be spread out or in 2011, but only got this:

This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest

Approximation, difficulty with your time/space...throw in some other ideas through the material, like an extended transition period, the concept of 4D bodies coming from reproductive evolution, dual bodied individuals, and we just don't have a clear picture of how it is supposed to happen.

---

I also see where zen is coming from - we've had so many predictions the past dozen years, the mind boggles. Its not unreasaonble to be slightly sceptical at times. I also have doubts at times. Then, I see or read something that makes me feel that the Law of One material is fundamentally correct.

Of course, fundamentally correct is one thing, easily and obviously interpreted is another.

In terms of the harvest being a clear cut event, for me the change in perspective came when I listened to the Quo reading, again and again. It seemed to state a non-dramatic change, that would last quite a long time.

So many people dismiss Q'uo now because the channeling method is different from the Ra material. I guess that's up to the discernment of the individual. I trust Q'uo as long as Carla and Jim are channeling them, and as long as they don't touch on Carla's obviously ingrained beliefs (resurrections of Jesus, etc.)

[unity100]

I definitely wouldn't view it that way. I mean, 5 years is awfully strict, considering Ra constantly pointed out their problems with numbers, and used the terms "approximately" or "this is an approximation" and "we speak in generalities" (which they said themselves is dangerous). It is your right to not take the information seriously if the harvest doesn't happen the way you feel it was supposed to, but that's really the essence of what I'm speaking about. Expectations can be frivolous and dangerous.

'intelligent infinity offers a type of clock' is not an approximate statement.

Extremes of all sorts are coming to the surface, from natural disasters to global economic health. Plutocracy is destroying the first-world economies, and the corruption in business and politics is now blatantly obvious. The world is blowing up; you cannot deny this. The question is going to be: do we recover from this, and are we better off because of it? In this way, I am hopeful that we see the dawn of a new age and the 'death' of our confused minds.

these do not carry any direct synchronicity to harvest. depending on the state and format of the society present on a planet, any kind of free will reaction to any energy change may come to being. some societies could have reacted to early stages of harvest radically, and some to later stages, and some to in between. it all depends where the problems of the society lies, energetically.

energy i say, because, as we can understand from what is explained in the material about contacting intelligent infinity, activating all energy centers up to indigo is necessary for harvest. then this means, during harvest, these energies will also be activated planet wide, for entities to be able to rise up in energy centers, regardless of individual prowess.

so, then, whether it be an individual, or a society, if the society has any issues in any given chakra in the order from 1 to 6, these will come to surface during the phase those energies start flowing.

what is more in direct synchronicity with harvest would be however the below :

For myself, I would understand where zen is coming from if the world was calm and moderate; it's not.

the state of the planet, and the situation regarding its energies are directly relevant to harvest, apparently. following the chart given in calleman's site regarding last phase of mayan calendar and the state of solar flares, storms, whatever energies coming to planet with japanese govt's real time magnetosphere monitoring site, i have seen that the synchronicity in between day/night periods in mayan calendar and sun activity is almost perfect. moreover, the peaks in activity seems to induce geological activity in the form of increased number and magnitude of quakes. (thanks to monitoring with rsoe edis site).

falling back to check with spiritual principles that may be behind this, one can easily find verifications :

it is known that the local logos is the provider of energy for this and other planets' activity. every night and day, since harvest is just providing energies up to at least 6th, indigo ray in order to provide entities to contact intelligent infinity, it is natural for there to be involvement from the sun. and for a planetwide contact of intelligent infinity, planetwide presence of energies need to be present for the opportunity of contact to be possible.

so, we have a picture that portrays us an inevitable, clock-wise progress towards availability of a certain vibration, regardless of the actions and musings of the entities that live on a planet. the only thing that can hamper the process, could be the planet getting destroyed. even if there were no humans on the face of the planet, but planet was there, these energies would still be present at the striking of the hour. remember 'regardless of the circumstances upon striking of the hour'.

in the event of destruction of the world, however, there probably would be no harvest as per the example of maldek. however, if a planet is not destroyed, but entirely depopulated, i think harvest still could take place at least in time/space.

Ra was very specific about many things, unfortunately, for some reason, Don never pushed the questions on Harvest enough to get a clear answer. Don got close to asking a good question, asking if Harvest will be spread out or in 2011, but only got this:

This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest

Approximation, difficulty with your time/space...throw in some other ideas through the material, like an extended transition period, the concept of 4D bodies coming from reproductive evolution, dual bodied individuals, and we just don't have a clear picture of how it is supposed to happen.

---

there is nothing left to vagueness in the above information about harvest.

ra may have difficulties about planet's time/space. however, they gave a year for happening of the harvest, as opposed to giving a time period. and this, was in response to a question that specifically asked about whether it would be spread out.

the above basically tells us, the harvest will not be spread out. it will happen in a given time/space nexus, like 2011, even if it was not 2011. else, there would be a period given, like x years, or start and end years. instead, there is a year given for harvest.

evolution of 4d bodies from 3/4d bodies are not relevant to harvest. harvest can take place, and 4d bodies may evolve throughout time as they please.

at this point 'gates to intelligent infinity opens regardless of the circumstances upon striking of the hour' is necessary to remember.

So many people dismiss Q'uo now because the channeling method is different from the Ra material. I guess that's up to the discernment of the individual. I trust Q'uo as long as Carla and Jim are channeling them, and as long as they don't touch on Carla's obviously ingrained beliefs (resurrections of Jesus, etc.)

quo material leaning towards the channelers' beliefs in subjects like resurrections of jesus etc, would mean that it would also lean towards he biases of the channelers in other subjects they feel strongly about.

[hogey11]

@unity

I feel they do carry synchronicity with harvest because the 4D sphere is becoming more viable each day moving forward. This is leading into thought becoming thing more easily, as the 4D energies manifest themselves. In this way, we are seeing a spiritual plutocracy evolve between the STO masses as the STS elite. Both are being given what they want right now; the developing world is experiencing ideological revolutions while the elite are expressing more control over the world than ever. It's very strange, and confusing; however, I think this is a reason for harvest. For myself, harvest will mark the point where this planet truly enters the 4D STO realm it is designated to become. It will be the point in which the STS are forced to go elsewhere. This might be dicey for many, but I feel if we're all agreeing that STS will continue to be a part of our existence forever, then I don't get why we're all here.

The thing that sets me off is acting as if harvest is just like any other incarnational death. Both Ra and Q'uo are very clear that this is not the case; the harvest is an epic moment in the soul's evolution - in fact, many have come just to witness it happening. The harvest signifies the end of duality and the rising of consciousness into 4th density. I find it interesting that many are now thinking along these lines, although maybe not on the same groove as myself. I think the reason Q'uo called the harvest to be something gradual and something that will take time is because the evolution needed to fully institute these changes will take time. This doesn't mean that we're not going to be experiencing a new reality tho; it just means we're not gonna be perfect at it. It will take time to grow roots and truly flourish. We will need to teach/learn new skills, rehabilitate our minds and bodies, rehabilitate the earth, all these things that will not be done in an single instant. What will happen in a single instant through harvest will be our calling towards these things; this is where the new 4D energies post-harvest will guide us. I believe a true 4D opportunity will be given to every soul on earth. Those who accept it will ascend. Those who do not will continue their cycle. Maybe people will separate; maybe they'll coexist. These are decisions for each to make when the time comes.

(I just read unitys next paragraph and see that I railed on about the similar feelings. we're in sync on a lot of this )

I realize these thoughts are half-crazy. That's okay. It's what I am calling for. I want a better world. I want true freedom for all. We can have these things, but only if we try for it. We have to WANT it. I want it. It's all I can really do on a scale greater than my local community...

[unity100]

what i see is you are still taking harvest as something that is more symbolic than real. you seem to think it would be something that could happen without disturbing you and your life in drastic sense you wouldnt like.

i would like to remind that no kind of 'spiritual pinnacle' would happen so comfortably in a problematic planet like this.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I definitely wouldn't view it that way. I mean, 5 years is awfully strict, considering Ra constantly pointed out their problems with numbers, and used the terms "approximately" or "this is an approximation" and "we speak in generalities" (which they said themselves is dangerous). It is your right to not take the information seriously if the harvest doesn't happen the way you feel it was supposed to, but that's really the essence of what I'm speaking about. Expectations can be frivolous and dangerous.

'intelligent infinity offers a type of clock' is not an approximate statement.

No, but it does not define exactly what that means. "Offers a type of clock" doesn't have to mean it hits in a moments time, it only means it is on a schedule. We know that 4D vibrations hit at an exact moment, we know they'll be here completely in a moments time, but this means nothing about harvest.

"The striking of an hour," in regards to the scope of the universe, could easily be 100 year period. The fact that it is a moments time for us is only an interpretation. Of course it could be a moments time, but it could not be.

Then, of course, even if it was a moments time, Ra constantly spoke about approximations and mistakes regarding time periods. The striking of the hour could not happen for years due to Ra's difficulty.

Not only that, but no one knows what "the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens" means. It's open to wild interpretation, including the idea that it only happens in time/space. Ra never said it was something that happened in space/time. Assuming anything outside of Ra's words is...well...an assumption.

Ra was very specific about many things, unfortunately, for some reason, Don never pushed the questions on Harvest enough to get a clear answer. Don got close to asking a good question, asking if Harvest will be spread out or in 2011, but only got this:

This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest

Approximation, difficulty with your time/space...throw in some other ideas through the material, like an extended transition period, the concept of 4D bodies coming from reproductive evolution, dual bodied individuals, and we just don't have a clear picture of how it is supposed to happen.

---

there is nothing left to vagueness in the above information about harvest.

ra may have difficulties about planet's time/space. however, they gave a year for happening of the harvest, as opposed to giving a time period. and this, was in response to a question that specifically asked about whether it would be spread out.

They gave an approximate year...which is vague. They even hammered in the fact they have difficulty with our time. This gives the material a clause...if it doesn't happen in 2011, maybe 2012...if not 2012, maybe 2013...if not 2013, maybe 2040. Who knows what Ra considers an approximation? On top of that, just because the questioner offered a single year and Ra did not state a time period does not translate to harvest happening at a single moment. It COULD, of course, but it is not 100% sure statement.

Saying "those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest" is fodder for questioning. For one, why would he say "those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest" and not "all will be harvested"? Why make a special statement for those not in incarnation if everyone at that very moment will be harvested? Why separate the two groups, incarnate and not incarnate? It hints that this is the moment that disincarnate entities will be harvested, but not necessarily incarnate entities. Of course that is a single interpretation...which is my point, it can be interpreted many ways.

Also, saying "this is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest" is WIDELY open for interpretation. "Probably/possible" means it is NOT definite. It means it MAY happen then. Again, in 40 years, someone could point to that statement and say "it could still be valid, because Ra said it was only possible."

at this point 'gates to intelligent infinity opens regardless of the circumstances upon striking of the hour' is necessary to remember.

There is still no way to know what this means, how it happens, where it happens, or whether "striking of the hour" means a moments time, or simply on a strict schedule. You have a very defined idea of what you think it is. But again, in 40 years, if nothing happens, someone can still interpret it to be correct....you may not, but many others may.

So many people dismiss Q'uo now because the channeling method is different from the Ra material. I guess that's up to the discernment of the individual. I trust Q'uo as long as Carla and Jim are channeling them, and as long as they don't touch on Carla's obviously ingrained beliefs (resurrections of Jesus, etc.)

quo material leaning towards the channelers' beliefs in subjects like resurrections of jesus etc, would mean that it would also lean towards he biases of the channelers in other subjects they feel strongly about.

Right, I've got no reason to believe Carla feels strongly about how harvest will happen. Reading her material on channeling makes me believe she knows what it takes to be a clear channel. I don't expect someone who was raised devoutly Christian to give up those beliefs for channeling, but other things accumulated along the way, such as what is harvest, I don't expect she has strong feelings that would distort the message to a great degree. I'd imagine she would be loyal to the information she channeled in the Ra material anyways.




I can imagine your response, talking about how there is no other way all of these things can be interpreted and nothing I've related to them is valid, but...it's all your interpretation. It's your own view of the Ra material, and you have reasons for interpreting it the way you do. You are steadfast in your interpretations and believe them heartily, but not everyone will share those interpretations. You perceive things one way and others will perceive things their way and there is no escaping that. The fact it can be debated now is proof that it can be looked at differently by different people.

[unity100]

'intelligent infinity offers a type of clock' is not an approximate statement.

"The striking of an hour," in regards to the scope of the universe, could easily be 100 year period. The fact that it is a moments time for us is only an interpretation. Of course it could be a moments time, but it could not be.

No, but it does not define exactly what that means. "Offers a type of clock" doesn't have to mean it hits in a moments time, it only means it is on a schedule. We know that 4D vibrations hit at an exact moment, we know they'll be here completely in a moments time, but this means nothing about harvest.

im at a loss to see why you are unable to merge scattered relevant information you see around, despite it should be easy for you :

- at one point it is told that intelligent infinity offers a type of clock. and it is told that its movements are precise and regardless of the circumstance upon the striking of the hour, gates to intelligent infinity opens.

- at another point it is asked whether harvest will be spread out or happen at a particular time. the answer was 2011. harvest is not a spread out event.

- harvest happens with the gates to intelligent infinity opening.

Not only that, but no one knows what "the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens" means. It's open to wild interpretation, including the idea that it only happens in time/space. Ra never said it was something that happened in space/time. Assuming anything outside of Ra's words is...well...an assumption.

not knowing what 'gates of intelligent infinity opening' means, and this being open to interpretation, does not change the other information given. there is not that much room to interpret everything. you cant load an uncertainty to the above points by interpreting 'gate to intelligent infinity'. you may not know what does gates to intelligent infinity opening mean, but it will happen regardless of the circumstances upon striking of the hour, apparently, and this includes interpretations.

Also, saying "this is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest" is WIDELY open for interpretation. "Probably/possible" means it is NOT definite. It means it MAY happen then. Again, in 40 years, someone could point to that statement and say "it could still be valid, because Ra said it was only possible."

it is quite clear that it is not spread out. moreover, judging by the fact that Ra says 'harvest is now', and the effort spent by Ra and all other society complexes and disincarnate entities in order to increase harvest. a potential 40 years shift, is a major time period for 3d, considering 3d is just 75,000 years. just looking back the state of the world 40 years ago and now would portray the difference in proper detail.

including the idea that it only happens in time/space.
Not only that, but no one knows what "the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens" means. It's open to wild interpretation, including the idea that it only happens in time/space. Ra never said it was something that happened in space/time. Assuming anything outside of Ra's words is...well...an assumption.

it seems that there is a misconception like feeling what happens in time/space may not affect people's lives drastically in space/time, or its effect may not be felt, or even remembered. that is not correct. moreover, in the case of something like harvest, the effect is planetwide, not personal.

Then, of course, even if it was a moments time, Ra constantly spoke about approximations and mistakes regarding time periods. The striking of the hour could not happen for years due to Ra's difficulty.

They gave an approximate year...which is vague. They even hammered in the fact they have difficulty with our time. This gives the material a clause...if it doesn't happen in 2011, maybe 2012...if not 2012, maybe 2013...if not 2013, maybe 2040. Who knows what Ra considers an approximation? On top of that, just because the questioner offered a single year and Ra did not state a time period does not translate to harvest happening at a single moment. It COULD, of course, but it is not 100% sure statement.

There is still no way to know what this means, how it happens, where it happens, or whether "striking of the hour" means a moments time, or simply on a strict schedule. You have a very defined idea of what you think it is. But again, in 40 years, if nothing happens, someone can still interpret it to be correct....you may not, but many others may.

having difficulty with time/space of this planet does not mean confusing the concepts 'time period' and 'at a certain date'. the question was asked in that direction, and the answer was not a time period.

in addition, something that is expressed as 'being now' (harvest) and a date like 2011 being given for it, and tied to a type of clock has to have a function that matures in narrow vicinity of the date given. if, there had been a room for deviance like a whopping 40 years, that would be a totally different function, and the possibility would be mentioned.

at this point, i would like to remind you that Ra was able to see all possibility vortices from their observation point. edgar cayce too apparently, for that matter.

so, if there was the possibility of a whopping 40 years deviation, it would be mentioned.

Saying "those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest" is fodder for questioning. For one, why would he say "those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest" and not "all will be harvested"? Why make a special statement for those not in incarnation if everyone at that very moment will be harvested? Why separate the two groups, incarnate and not incarnate? It hints that this is the moment that disincarnate entities will be harvested, but not necessarily incarnate entities. Of course that is a single interpretation...which is my point, it can be interpreted many ways.

these are not concepts relevant to time. all gets included in the harvest, but those who are harvested would only be those who qualify for harvest. that is the differentiation of 'not all being harvested'.

you are getting misplaced hints. 'INCLUDED' means, the party would be INCLUDED with the other group. therefore, disincarnates being INCLUDED in harvest would mean that they would be included in harvest with the other group - incarnates.

I can imagine your response, talking about how there is no other way all of these things can be interpreted and nothing I've related to them is valid, but...it's all your interpretation. It's your own view of the Ra material, and you have reasons for interpreting it the way you do. You are steadfast in your interpretations and believe them heartily, but not everyone will share those interpretations. You perceive things one way and others will perceive things their way and there is no escaping that. The fact it can be debated now is proof that it can be looked at differently by different people.

there is a limit to interpretation. if interpretations of that grand scale is in order, then there is no point to there being any kind of information. with that kind of interpretative streak, you could go in and reinterpret what was meant with the sinking of atlantis, and evaluate it to come up as meaning 'there was no real atlantis at all'. sounding extreme a bit maybe. but only so because there is no need to make such grand interpratation of that piece of information for the sake of comfort. whether there was an atlantis, or not, doesnt involve the potential disruption of lives and aims of anyone. however in the case of harvest, it does.

and then enters grand interpretations, some of which inclining towards such an interpretation that it evaluates as nothing happening at all, and everyone living so conveniently as they were. and enter other interpretations that totally upturn the world.

some are afraid of their comfortable lives getting disrupted, some are afraid of nothing happening at all.

[zenmaster]

harvest is not a spread out event.

Then why does Ra say "as harvest is completed...", implying spread out? BTW, 'event' is your word. Ra never uses 'event' to refer to the harvest. They do refer to it as a process, however.

---

there is a limit to interpretation.

There sure is, and it's kinda useful to know when those limits are reached and over-extension and wishful thinking start filling in the blanks.

[Bring4th_Austin]

'intelligent infinity offers a type of clock' is not an approximate statement.

"The striking of an hour," in regards to the scope of the universe, could easily be 100 year period. The fact that it is a moments time for us is only an interpretation. Of course it could be a moments time, but it could not be.

No, but it does not define exactly what that means. "Offers a type of clock" doesn't have to mean it hits in a moments time, it only means it is on a schedule. We know that 4D vibrations hit at an exact moment, we know they'll be here completely in a moments time, but this means nothing about harvest.

im at a loss to see why you are unable to merge scattered relevant information you see around, despite it should be easy for you :

- at one point it is told that intelligent infinity offers a type of clock. and it is told that its movements are precise and regardless of the circumstance upon the striking of the hour, gates to intelligent infinity opens.

- at another point it is asked whether harvest will be spread out or happen at a particular time. the answer was 2011. harvest is not a spread out event.

- harvest happens with the gates to intelligent infinity opening.

I've touched on each of these points, showing that you're interpretation is only one interpretation. You didn't touch on any of my interpretations, you just said "I don't know why you don't see things in my interpretation."

Not only that, but no one knows what "the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens" means. It's open to wild interpretation, including the idea that it only happens in time/space. Ra never said it was something that happened in space/time. Assuming anything outside of Ra's words is...well...an assumption.

not knowing what 'gates of intelligent infinity opening' means, and this being open to interpretation, does not change the other information given. there is not that much room to interpret everything. you cant load an uncertainty to the above points by interpreting 'gate to intelligent infinity'. you may not know what does gates to intelligent infinity opening mean, but it will happen regardless of the circumstances upon striking of the hour, apparently, and this includes interpretations.

The fact that it is open to interpretation is the only point I need to prove. Again, "the striking of the hour" meaning "in a moments time" is YOUR interpretation of that statement.

Also, saying "this is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest" is WIDELY open for interpretation. "Probably/possible" means it is NOT definite. It means it MAY happen then. Again, in 40 years, someone could point to that statement and say "it could still be valid, because Ra said it was only possible."

it is quite clear that it is not spread out. moreover, judging by the fact that Ra says 'harvest is now', and the effort spent by Ra and all other society complexes and disincarnate entities in order to increase harvest. a potential 40 years shift, is a major time period for 3d, considering 3d is just 75,000 years. just looking back the state of the world 40 years ago and now would portray the difference in proper detail.

"The harvest is now"...30 years ago...40 years is just 10 more years added on to that. 40 years isn't really that much compared to 75,000 years, that's your own opinion and your own interpretation you seem to insist is the only correct one.

including the idea that it only happens in time/space.
Not only that, but no one knows what "the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens" means. It's open to wild interpretation, including the idea that it only happens in time/space. Ra never said it was something that happened in space/time. Assuming anything outside of Ra's words is...well...an assumption.

it seems that there is a misconception like feeling what happens in time/space may not affect people's lives drastically in space/time, or its effect may not be felt, or even remembered. that is not correct. moreover, in the case of something like harvest, the effect is planetwide, not personal.

It could easily only happen once a person has left space/time and entered time/space. That's what I meant, but even further, it's your own interpretation that something happening in time/space would have to effect us directly, immediately, and noticeably in space/time. Something can exist/happen in time/space without happening in space/time, according to Ra:

At this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

It is existing to a far greater extent int time/space than in space/time...something is happening in time/space and not in space time. Very clearly spelled out. Although I have no doubt that you have yet another interpretation which you think is the only correct possibility regarding this statement.

Then, of course, even if it was a moments time, Ra constantly spoke about approximations and mistakes regarding time periods. The striking of the hour could not happen for years due to Ra's difficulty.

They gave an approximate year...which is vague. They even hammered in the fact they have difficulty with our time. This gives the material a clause...if it doesn't happen in 2011, maybe 2012...if not 2012, maybe 2013...if not 2013, maybe 2040. Who knows what Ra considers an approximation? On top of that, just because the questioner offered a single year and Ra did not state a time period does not translate to harvest happening at a single moment. It COULD, of course, but it is not 100% sure statement.

There is still no way to know what this means, how it happens, where it happens, or whether "striking of the hour" means a moments time, or simply on a strict schedule. You have a very defined idea of what you think it is. But again, in 40 years, if nothing happens, someone can still interpret it to be correct....you may not, but many others may.

having difficulty with time/space of this planet does not mean confusing the concepts 'time period' and 'at a certain date'. the question was asked in that direction, and the answer was not a time period.

in addition, something that is expressed as 'being now' (harvest) and a date like 2011 being given for it, and tied to a type of clock has to have a function that matures in narrow vicinity of the date given. if, there had been a room for deviance like a whopping 40 years, that would be a totally different function, and the possibility would be mentioned.

It was expressed as "being now" 30 years ago, and you're saying that 40 years is "whopping." Why would Ra say "harvest is now" when it was in 30 years, and how is 40 years so much larger than 30 years? You don't know what Ra would have mentioned or wouldn't have in different situations anyways, you just have your own interpretation of what they did mention.

at this point, i would like to remind you that Ra was able to see all possibility vortices from their observation point. edgar cayce too apparently, for that matter.

so, if there was the possibility of a whopping 40 years deviation, it would be mentioned.

Edgar Cayce had some predictions not come true...and again, you don't know what Ra considers approximate. You don't know what Ra would mention or wouldn't mention in specific situations. It could be 40 years. It's your opinion that it's not. Your own interpretation of Ra's words which you feel is the only correct one.

Saying "those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest" is fodder for questioning. For one, why would he say "those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest" and not "all will be harvested"? Why make a special statement for those not in incarnation if everyone at that very moment will be harvested? Why separate the two groups, incarnate and not incarnate? It hints that this is the moment that disincarnate entities will be harvested, but not necessarily incarnate entities. Of course that is a single interpretation...which is my point, it can be interpreted many ways.

these are not concepts relevant to time. all gets included in the harvest, but those who are harvested would only be those who qualify for harvest. that is the differentiation of 'not all being harvested'.

you are getting misplaced hints. 'INCLUDED' means, the party would be INCLUDED with the other group. therefore, disincarnates being INCLUDED in harvest would mean that they would be included in harvest with the other group - incarnates.

There would be no reason for Ra to specifically talk about those not incarnated at that time. It would be a given that they are included in "all." It's your interpretation that Ra was simply clarifying that they would ALSO get included, but it's my interpretation that if that were the case, Ra would just say "at that nexus all will be harvested."

some are afraid of their comfortable lives getting disrupted, some are afraid of nothing happening at all.

That is for sure, for a long time I was afraid nothing would happen. I would not consider myself "comfortable" in 3D existence, especially on this sphere, and I would love for there to be an instant event that would propel us to something different, even if it meant a rough moment. But I see a lot of ambiguity in Ra's words you do not, and I don't feel like my opinion is the only right one. It could be wrong, and I'm okay with that.

[hogey11]

what i see is you are still taking harvest as something that is more symbolic than real. you seem to think it would be something that could happen without disturbing you and your life in drastic sense you wouldnt like.

i would like to remind that no kind of 'spiritual pinnacle' would happen so comfortably in a problematic planet like this.

I do not see the harvest as symbolic in any way; I think it will be paired with some real changes in the way we perceive the world and live our lives. Ra explains 4D society as something quite different than what we are currently experiencing. My feelings are that sometime between Oct 2011 and Dec 2012 we will see some sort of energetic shift and a global rise in consciousness. I just don't know exactly what that will entail.

A spiritual pinnacle could very well happen on a planet like this. It is problematic due to the duality inherent in its sphere, but should that sphere completely switch, these things are no longer problems. A lot of things could be solved very quickly if we really chose to do it, we've just been conditioned to think its an impossible job. It's only impossible because people make it impossible. If the intention of the world was focused on a singular goal or direction, how long would it take us to get out of the mud? Keep in mind too, we have a 100-700 year transitional period as well, where we must learn to 'shield ourselves' from 3D thoughts and constructs. I feel this could be allegory for a technological and economical change that completely change the dynamics on earth.

I believe that most people want to do well in their lives. So many of them are never given a chance to because they are always in need of the most basic things. Food, water, shelter, etc. If we can solve poverty, it will change the world in fundamental ways. Think of it this way: we went from the wright brothers (first flight) to apollo 13 (landing on the moon) in a single lifetime. Do you really not think its possible we could solve all sorts of new problems in our own lifetimes? It comes down to which problems are going to matter to us at the end of the day. Our priorities may change, however slight the chances

I would not consider myself "comfortable" in 3D existence, especially on this sphere, and I would love for there to be an instant event that would propel us to something different, even if it meant a rough moment. But I see a lot of ambiguity in Ra's words you do not, and I don't feel like my opinion is the only right one. It could be wrong, and I'm okay with that.

I'm with ya, brother

[3DMonkey]

Great analogy with the fast forward of human flight. It is that kind of information that gives your theory wings.

[zenmaster]

My question to you is how you cannot see us stepping up in the present with the world in it's current state; do you think as a whole we are happy?

Sure I can see us stepping up int he present with the world in its current state. Why would you project that I cannot do so? Can't speak for everyone, but I am genuinely happy.

---

you seem to think it would be something that could happen without disturbing you and your life in drastic sense you wouldnt like.

Do you not see that this is your shadow? The 'fear of death' or 'fear of disruption' or 'fear of discomfort' is all something you continually project onto others. Perhaps some day you will bother to address these themes within yourself? Kinda makes for efficient use of your catalyst, now doesn't it?

[irpsit]

The harvest is an event of the soul. You cannot see it directly, but sensitive people might perceive it.
That's why I don't think you are going to see something special in 2011 or 2012, just a lot of change like its happening now. The event is mostly spiritual.

You cannot also decide on your harvest. That is a choice from your soul, not from our walking self. But the walking self is a part and a creation of the soul. You cannot only but follow your heart.

Also. 4th dimension cannot coexist with 3rd. And the 3rd dimension will continue after 2012, but diminish in intensity. So while we remain alive and in normal 3D bodies after 2012, we can indeed work in our service in the best we feel best. That's the early beginning of 4D, this awareness.

Its funny discussing it, but it's an event of the soul, the harvest.

[AnthroHeart]

I'm sure the harvest is what we make of it. Different for each person.

[irpsit]

Apparently, in previous civlizations (Atlantida), either the logos or the souls of the Atlantida people, choose a catastrophic ending. But I guess we are a part of the Logos, and so we also decide. This is very much at a soul level.

I know there is great pondering of many human souls over the possibility of different catastrophic scenarios as if to teach us a lesson. I don't think that is so necessary now. But the catastrophe will be to political and economic levels, those levels that are still resisting change.

I guess the idea is not death but the possibility of a painful death or seeing any suffering; if harvest involves a possibility of lets say mass death due to a structural change in densities (activation/potentiation), then the change can include a mechanism for making the transition as painless as possible.

If not sudden and gradual, and 3d dying by 'natural' means, then death could be painless or not. People die every day and we eventually will too. Some deaths that occur every day are painless, some are painful. Dying by narcos in mexico decapitating someone's head is not the same as dying of old age, although if it is due to a rapidly developing cancer for example, can be very painful or distressful. There is the possibility that as 4d entities increase, that remaining 3d (if possible) death experience could be a pain-free experience and 'guided' to this effect.

But if 3d catalyst is not offered anymore at one point (especially at harvest or close to it), these types of deaths 'are not needed'. Death in 4d is totally different and I'm inclined to think that since basically there is not aging time of death is a chosen occurrance to start another incarnation.

All this could have been accomplished while in 3d cycles, by not having a society in which suffering is not so common due to wars, cast/class systems and negative catalyst. The harvest is very connected tied to the planet consciousness and planet becoming aware.. If there is a lot of discrepancies inconveniences are bound to occur. However, what the Galactic Logos plans to deal with these situations are, remains a mystery.

[unity100]

harvest is not a spread out event.

Then why does Ra say "as harvest is completed...", implying spread out? By the way, 'event' is your word. Ra never uses 'event' to refer to the harvest. They do refer to it as a process, however.

notice that not spreading to a time period of years would not mean that it would take an instant.

I've touched on each of these points, showing that you're interpretation is only one interpretation. You didn't touch on any of my interpretations, you just said "I don't know why you don't see things in my interpretation."

no you havent explained how something that is imminent, and given for a particular year as date can be interpreted so wildly that a generation can comfortably live and pass without harvest happening.

i touched all of your interpretations however, as you can see from what you responded to in remainder of your post.

The fact that it is open to interpretation is the only point I need to prove.

no its not sufficient. you are trying to prove an interpretation window so great that, generations could come and pass through it. there would totally be no need for any kind of time consideration for such an error margin,

and,

Again, "the striking of the hour" meaning "in a moments time" is YOUR interpretation of that statement.

it is not my interpretation - in those q/as, the subject is relevant to something happening in this planet's time scale, and all the information being calculated and given are given for the conditions of this planet.

if, an allowance like 40 years was possible, this would total to an entire 70 years from 1981, and Ra would not state that anything that extends lifespan of an entity would be useless, in the subject of 'integratron' machine.

"The harvest is now"...30 years ago...40 years is just 10 more years added on to that. 40 years isn't really that much compared to 75,000 years, that's your own opinion and your own interpretation you seem to insist is the only correct one.

It was expressed as "being now" 30 years ago, and you're saying that 40 years is "whopping." Why would Ra say "harvest is now" when it was in 30 years, and how is 40 years so much larger than 30 years? You don't know what Ra would have mentioned or wouldn't have in different situations anyways, you just have your own interpretation of what they did mention.

i see, you were not adding 40 years error margin from 2011, but 1980. even though much more logical than a whopping 40 years from 2011, its still off :

something that can throw off with 10 years of error margin in one direction should have an error margin also backwards. with that , the harvest could also have happened 10 years before 1981. however no such possibilities and probabilities were mentioned in any of the q/as, despite numerous possibilities were examined in detail, and likely ones were outlined in numerous subjects :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#8

or in general :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

what the above basically explains is that, whenever there was something that would take from x to y years, or happen in x years or similar, they were named. like the transition of this planet from 3d to 4d being likely in 100 to 700 years.

if there was any possibility of 1 to 10 years deviation for harvest, it would be named as such, not just said 'in 2011'.

let me sum it up again :

- whenever there are likely possibility scenarios for something, ra mentions them.
- no such possibilities were outlined for harvest but year 2011.

It could easily only happen once a person has left space/time and entered time/space.

It is existing to a far greater extent int time/space than in space/time...something is happening in time/space and not in space time. Very clearly spelled out. Although I have no doubt that you have yet another interpretation which you think is the only correct possibility regarding this statement.

however then there would be no need to say that 'those who are in time/space will be included in the harvest'. for such a mention of including to be valid and necessary, there needs to be something needing including. and including those in time/space would mean they were included with some other group - that happens to be those in space/time. this is not an 'interpretation'. its simple logic.

That's what I meant, but even further, it's your own interpretation that something happening in time/space would have to effect us directly, immediately, and noticeably in space/time. Something can exist/happen in time/space without happening in space/time, according to Ra:

At this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

that quote passes in the subject of the forming 4d sphere, and it pertains to physicality of that sphere. not being able to affect or not able to affect anything else. moreover, it is not told anywhere that 4d sphere is not affecting anything here - on the contrary, there are ones living in that 4d sphere, shaping, forming, and getting affected by it - the 3-4d body incarnates.

Edgar Cayce had some predictions not come true...and again, you don't know what Ra considers approximate. You don't know what Ra would mention or wouldn't mention in specific situations. It could be 40 years. It's your opinion that it's not. Your own interpretation of Ra's words which you feel is the only correct one.

we know what Ra considers approximate, because when Ra gives out numbers pertaining to our own planet, they give these based on our own planet. not their perception and estimates of time. this holds true for anything regarding date and time ranging from the time given for maldek's destruction to start of 3d, to atlantis sinking to yahweh intervention and moses.

you cant 'interpret' 75,000 years. or, you cant 'interpret' 1600 BC. these are numeric dates.

It's your interpretation that Ra was simply clarifying that they would ALSO get included, but it's my interpretation that if that were the case, Ra would just say "at that nexus all will be harvested."

you know that continually making attributions to something being someone else's 'interpretation' doesnt change linguistics or structures of language ?

if it was a 'given that they are included in the all', ra would just say it as it was, and 'all would get harvested'. whenever there are details, ra mentions them, and in this case there is a detail, apparently, concerning being incarnate and disincarnate during harvest.

But I see a lot of ambiguity in Ra's words you do not, and I don't feel like my opinion is the only right one. It could be wrong, and I'm okay with that.

it is curious that you see a lot of ambiguity in a material by a source which gone to extreme ends to not be ambiguous, and has been ambiguous when necessary by directly stating it.

Sure I can see us stepping up int he present with the world in its current state. Why would you project that I cannot do so? Can't speak for everyone, but I am genuinely happy.

or are you ....

you seem to think it would be something that could happen without disturbing you and your life in drastic sense you wouldnt like.

Do you not see that this is your shadow? The 'fear of death' or 'fear of disruption' or 'fear of discomfort' is all something you continually project onto others. Perhaps some day you will bother to address these themes within yourself? Kinda makes for efficient use of your catalyst, now doesn't it?

im not the one who is going to extreme lengths to dub a researcher with an array of adjectives ranging from ambiguous to charlatan, in quite a reactionary and flamed manner, due to his research suggesting disruption at a near date. even if we put calleman aside, i have seen you react similarly to anyone or any discussion which involved disruption at a near date. moreover, you have mentioned various things about your personal life before, like in the above, therefore, i had arrived at such an impression.

as for me, i am not at all afraid of death. actually, i would have no regrets if i died tomorrow.