So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?

[godwide_void]

As is well known to all of us there exists in place the necessary veil which - causing us to forget that we are all individuated aspects of one grand Creator - allows the mechanisms of Free Will to function by giving us a purity of experience for our life experiences so that we may ultimately learn and polarize on the path towards penultimate unity. Were there no veil in place the game would be far too easy for everyone, and there would ultimately be no propensity for mistakes (learning opportunities) and our own choosings.

Now, when one speaks of "piercing the veil" what does it truly mean? I mean, if you consider simply knowing that we are all Creator and various other facets of the LOO and existence then one could say that every single person who frequents this forum and reads through the Law of One has pierced the veil just from reading this information source beingness! But this is not the case, as I'm sure that there are many (including myself) who, while being keenly aware of the Law of One, can sometimes stray. So if just knowing it isn't piercing the veil fully, then what is?

I think I might have pierced the veil personally; I say this because somehow I am able to know exactly WHY every experience I have from now on occurs, and I can gather the exact lesson I am trying to be shown, and I also am 95% certain that I know full well WHY I incarnated here and my mission (which day by day I am doing what I can to work towards). I also feel I am very in tune with the Universe... for example, by simply willing or desiring a small breeze on a particularly hot day I am given the breeze in that instant, I never have to wait for the traffic lights to change anymore when I cross the street, trains and buses will come the instant I get there, etc. Just small things that are little signs that are telling me "you indeed do exert influence over your own dream of life".

Day by day it feels like more and more data and understanding is downloaded into my head as I am coming more to terms with what is meant by truly seeing yourself and all other selves as "Creator". I don't know, what are all of your opinions?

Namaste

[3DMonkey]

I think I might have pierced the veil personally; I say this because somehow I am able to know exactly WHY every experience I have from now on occurs, and I can gather the exact lesson I am trying to be shown, and I also am 95% certain that I know full well WHY I incarnated here and my mission (which day by day I am doing what I can to work towards). I also feel I am very in tune with the Universe... for example, by simply willing or desiring a small breeze on a particularly hot day I am given the breeze in that instant, I never have to wait for the traffic lights to change anymore when I cross the street, trains and buses will come the instant I get there, etc. Just small things that are little signs that are telling me "you indeed do exert influence over your own dream of life".

Day by day it feels like more and more data and understanding is downloaded into my head as I am coming more to terms with what is meant by truly seeing yourself and all other selves as "Creator". I don't know, what are all of your opinions?

Namaste

This is positive and uplifting to read. I also have understanding as to my "purpose".

I'd like to ask. When you came to this "knowing" was it confirmed by the simple comfort of "yep that's it, I've known all along".. ?

[godwide_void]

Many factors played a huge role in the solid affirmation and assurance that what is written in the Law of One material rang as complete truth, and the eventual solidification in my mind of this knowing and integration, as well as the train of thought and reflection that caused me to come to the knowing of my own purpose; the two main benefactors being meditation in conjunction with the entheogenic experience. I have experienced several things in my vision quests which was pretty much a huge "Yep, that's it" from the Universe to me but I'm not familiar with this community's policy on discussing psychedelic and entheogenic substances or the experience thereof so I'll refrain from discussing the specific experiences unless someone let's me know if it's alright to do so.

But yes, basically pondering the central considerations of unity and studying the Law of One material in psychedelic-altered senses and inducing entheogenic experiences to gain further witness of the implications of the Law of One did the trick for me

[SomaticDreams]

Now, when one speaks of "piercing the veil" what does it truly mean?

Piercing the veil is only a metaphor, and therefore I think, obscures what this 'veil' is and how it operates upon on consciousness. I tend to think of it as a filter that we are hardwired to, meaning our physical bodies are designed to experience this third density- our consciousness is capable of piercing this veil. If we understand this, then there is nothing to "do" or no action that helps us pierce the veil (unless it indirectly helps our consciousness). In short, going beyond this veil is a way, a process, a state of being that is often called enlightenment. I make a difference between knowing and understanding. I think all people can easily understand the Ra material if they try- knowing something is to have faith upon what you say, meaning you deeply believe with all your conviction that it is true. Knowing is a process of change, turning knowledge into a state of being. Your actions reflect your state of being.

This being said, the veil is constantly pierced with or without knowledge of the Law of One. The true trial is to retain this state of being, of unconditional love, and following your synchronicity, your passions, your purpose. Love is the vibration of the fourth density. If your state is one of unconditional love, then you will act towards others in this way, thank them for what they teach you, and forgive those that hurt you. You know (not just understand) the purpose of what each experience is for.

As soon as you begin to realize this state, the more challenges that manifest in your experience. There are many trials and tests at this point in time, but that is all the more reason to use as a support for our meditations, and for our motivations. We must not do it out of fear, or selfish want, but of a true desire to help others with unconditional love. To give all what we can, and show support, and respect to all and any who we co-create our realities with.

This is what I know of piercing the veil. Peace, love, light and respect to your path. May our light combine and guide you on your path, with the least resistance my friend.

[hogey11]

Many factors played a huge role in the solid affirmation and assurance that what is written in the Law of One material rang as complete truth, and the eventual solidification in my mind of this knowing and integration, as well as the train of thought and reflection that caused me to come to the knowing of my own purpose; the two main benefactors being meditation in conjunction with the entheogenic experience. I have experienced several things in my vision quests which was pretty much a huge "Yep, that's it" from the Universe to me but I'm not familiar with this community's policy on discussing psychedelic and entheogenic substances or the experience thereof so I'll refrain from discussing the specific experiences unless someone let's me know if it's alright to do so.

But yes, basically pondering the central considerations of unity and studying the Law of One material in psychedelic-altered senses and inducing entheogenic experiences to gain further witness of the implications of the Law of One did the trick for me

ayahuasca?

[godwide_void]

Now, when one speaks of "piercing the veil" what does it truly mean?

Piercing the veil is only a metaphor, and therefore I think, obscures what this 'veil' is and how it operates upon on consciousness. I tend to think of it as a filter that we are hardwired to, meaning our physical bodies are designed to experience this third density- our consciousness is capable of piercing this veil. If we understand this, then there is nothing to "do" or no action that helps us pierce the veil (unless it indirectly helps our consciousness). In short, going beyond this veil is a way, a process, a state of being that is often called enlightenment. I make a difference between knowing and understanding. I think all people can easily understand the Ra material if they try- knowing something is to have faith upon what you say, meaning you deeply believe with all your conviction that it is true. Knowing is a process of change, turning knowledge into a state of being. Your actions reflect your state of being.

This being said, the veil is constantly pierced with or without knowledge of the Law of One. The true trial is to retain this state of being, of unconditional love, and following your synchronicity, your passions, your purpose. Love is the vibration of the fourth density. If your state is one of unconditional love, then you will act towards others in this way, thank them for what they teach you, and forgive those that hurt you. You know (not just understand) the purpose of what each experience is for.

As soon as you begin to realize this state, the more challenges that manifest in your experience. There are many trials and tests at this point in time, but that is all the more reason to use as a support for our meditations, and for our motivations. We must not do it out of fear, or selfish want, but of a true desire to help others with unconditional love. To give all what we can, and show support, and respect to all and any who we co-create our realities with.

This is what I know of piercing the veil. Peace, love, light and respect to your path. May our light combine and guide you on your path, with the least resistance my friend.

Truly inspiring and thought provoking post. While I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've written I take special emphasis on your second and third paragraph, reminding me that to wish to penetrate the veil to an extreme degree and even having done so, at this current time, is not necessary as in the end the primary attribute we must cultivate here is that of unconditional love, so regardless whether one pierces the veil enough to truly have reached that point of "enlightenment" is of no concern unless that knowing is channeled into the efforts of spreading peace towards others.

I appreciate your insight, fellow aspect of the Creator.

[godwide_void]

Many factors played a huge role in the solid affirmation and assurance that what is written in the Law of One material rang as complete truth, and the eventual solidification in my mind of this knowing and integration, as well as the train of thought and reflection that caused me to come to the knowing of my own purpose; the two main benefactors being meditation in conjunction with the entheogenic experience. I have experienced several things in my vision quests which was pretty much a huge "Yep, that's it" from the Universe to me but I'm not familiar with this community's policy on discussing psychedelic and entheogenic substances or the experience thereof so I'll refrain from discussing the specific experiences unless someone let's me know if it's alright to do so.

But yes, basically pondering the central considerations of unity and studying the Law of One material in psychedelic-altered senses and inducing entheogenic experiences to gain further witness of the implications of the Law of One did the trick for me

ayahuasca?

In a sense in that the conjunction of an MAOI and DMT was utilized, but not quite. While I have slight experience with Ayahuasca and I bore witness to its negative purging, ultimately spiritually cleansing qualities the experience which came with the proverbial giant neon sign that says "THE Law of One IS REAL" arose from an experience I had with DMT via the smoked route and the ingestion of an MAOI ingested prior to ultimately lengthen the time one spends in that realm from 5 minutes to 50 minutes.

I will cut to the chase. After the final exhalation I laid down in my bed, threw on an hour long ambient song I made and waited, yet since the MAOI was in effect it took about 2 minutes for me to enter the dimethyltryptal ethoscape and for a while the typical experience was occurring, beautiful jewelled chamber, geometry... but eventually everything stopped, and I ended up in complete, widespreading darkness.

Let it be noted now that prior to this experience I hadn't thought about the Law of One material for a good month or so. While in this inert darkness a message was telepathically relayed to me, just pure information, and it was the ONLY message that had ever been communicated to me during this entire experience. It registered as "FOR LIVING YOUR LIFE HUMBLY, WE SHALL SHOW YOU THE 8TH DENSITY".

Upon the completion of that sentence, a vision started to formulate. I can only describe it as my simultaneously witnessing and becoming of this huge, monolithic galaxy-wide throne with a face in it that appeared before me (yet at that point there was no "me" for it to appear before, my awareness was odd, it was both 360 degrees perceiving and also as though the awareness was coming from inside and outside). This vision was not typical of the DMT experience, in that it appeared as though this throne was made up of the entire void instead of just appearing within it, and it did not consist of impossible, majestic geometry. Every moment it appeared to expand for miles in every direction, and I could make out, embedded in every inch of it, galaxies and star systems, and as it expanded so too did the universes in it multiply. The only thing I felt was... a stillness, despite this process of infinite creation happening before me. It was like everything in the cosmos, EVERYTHING, all reaches of Creation were found in this being, it was the foundation of Creation.

Eventually I'm assuming this was all far too much for my consciousness to process and I blacked out completely. Upon awakening it felt like waking up on the day of my first earliest memory. Nothing existed before to me but I knew what I didn't. For up to an hour after I was trying to retrace my steps, and I could not remember ANYTHING, what am I waking up from? What just happened? What caused me to remember that entire experience came when I looked down at my iPod and the song position was at approximately 52:00 and before I'd fallen into the trance state it was only at 2 minutes. It felt like I'd woken up from a very, very, very, very, very long dream and that was all my life prior to the experience was. Instantly everything came flooding back in and I was completely shaken to the core and deeply humbled at what I had just underwent...

Even to this day when I attempt to visualize that god-wide throne I can see it very vividly and I will immediately start to feel weird sensations when I do so.

That vision is what has guided me and continues to do so, and is why I consider DMT etheric spirit technology as opposed to a "hallucinogen". I can't really dismiss this experience as mere "tripping" when, as I and others have learned, you can't impose your own will onto the DMT experience, and it shows you what it will show you, and if it has shown me "the 8th density" then there is nothing more I can do than give out a little breath of relief and know that all this is true.

That was the last straw that jettisoned me back into my complete and utter reimmersion into the Law of One material and my current discipline today. It was the experience that was my "destroying of the veil" by showing me solid proof right there and then.

[hogey11]

Thanks for relating the experience!!! It must have been really cool just to experience yourself in a different place and position - let alone possibly seeing the absolute center of the universe/whatever it is you saw

I have yet to experience anything with DMT other than natural causes, but it is on my list. I am a cautious person by nature and I have yet to gather the courage to just do it. I feel an opportunity will present itself when i'm ready

[Eddie]

Great thread here, I wish I'd read it earlier.

For another perspective on penetrating the veil, you might try downloading and listening to this .mp3 file. It's the 8-12-2011 Dreamland show from Whitley Strieber's site; Marla Frees recounts events that she experienced recently at the Monroe Institute. Really worth listening to; it will be available for a limited time.

Marla Freese: The Visitors and the Mystery of Death

[zenmaster]

Why is it that when so many people 'penetrate the veil' and recall 'past lives', the accounts are at odds with each other. Our memories 'in the veil' are quite faulty also, for that matter. We enthusiastically relate memories that are blatantly false, due to our bias that it 'should have happened as I desired'.

When 'going beyond the veil', I'm not so sure we are remembering events as happened so much as a metaphorical storyline played out as in a dream.

[Unbound]

The veil is the illusion of linearity. The veil is the illusion of separation. To penetrate the veil means to no longer be bound by time, no longer be bound by a singular sequence but to realize the simultineity of all existences. To penetrate the veil means to move in to the 4th dimension, to become a part of time itself. Not only is the veil now being penetrated by many, but once a certain percentage all have pierced the veil it becomes unviable, and disperses. This is the harvest we now face.

[3DMonkey]

The veil, to me, is more like the imaginary line between the information we currently work with and all the registered information we have ever worked with. Conscious and unconscious. Now, I am confident this applies to all that we have done since the day we were born incarnate. It is a stretch in abstract thinking to go beyond this incarnation and contemplate pre-incarnate unconscious registration.

Everything we come to know (everything that touches our senses, catalyst) makes up the unconscious, but typically we only actively work with a select portion of this, conscious. The veil is our limiting ability of our mind/body to achieve fully active, conscious recall. There's that word again, limiting, bringing to mind the Council of Saturn and the Confederation, themselves regulating our little earth's ability to receive all of its own information.


This is the veil and I think is often confused with the darkness that is the matrix of the spirit. This is the unknown, not the unconscious. This is the place The Fool walks into to find a new light, or a new level of perceiving catalyst and finding catalyst. It is the confusing place where we create karma and invisibly tie ourselves to other m/b/s complexes.



Or I'm totally wrong.

[zenmaster]

The veil is the illusion of linearity. The veil is the illusion of separation. To penetrate the veil means to no longer be bound by time, no longer be bound by a singular sequence but to realize the simultineity of all existences. To penetrate the veil means to move in to the 4th dimension, to become a part of time itself. Not only is the veil now being penetrated by many, but once a certain percentage all have pierced the veil it becomes unviable, and disperses. This is the harvest we now face.

I sort of agree with this, in the sense that the products of a linear mindset tends to reinforce the illusion (in a feedback loop). But as we know, the historical and mechanical understandings or memories are not part of the penetration, due to memory-recall problems and presumably the logos not thinking those aspects were important to evolution. However, that does not seem to stop those that 'penetrate' from falsely attributing these 'memories' to historical events and or mechanical principles.

[3DMonkey]

The veil is the illusion of linearity. The veil is the illusion of separation. To penetrate the veil means to no longer be bound by time, no longer be bound by a singular sequence but to realize the simultineity of all existences. To penetrate the veil means to move in to the 4th dimension, to become a part of time itself. Not only is the veil now being penetrated by many, but once a certain percentage all have pierced the veil it becomes unviable, and disperses. This is the harvest we now face.

I sort of agree with this, in the sense that the products of a linear mindset tends to reinforce the illusion (in a feedback loop). But as we know, the historical and mechanical understandings or memories are not part of the penetration, due to memory-recall problems and presumably the logos not thinking those aspects were important to evolution. However, that does not seem to stop those that 'penetrate' from falsely attributing these 'memories' to historical events and or mechanical principles.

I don't know what would be an example of, as you say, "those that penetrate".

I don't know what you mean by "falsely attributing memories to mechanical principles."

[Tenet Nosce]

From the Saturday Meditation, 30 July 10 :

G: M writes, “I have a question about the process concerning the removal of the veil and the conditions which must be met before removal may occur. Specifically, I would like to know if the removal is an automatic process that is triggered when certain conditions are met or whether a petition must be made to another level of consciousness. Any other information you may offer with regard to the form and function of the veil that can lead to a greater understanding of the process of removal would also be appreciated.”

We are those of Q’uo, and we thank the one known as M for this query. To the one known as M we would say that the function of the veil is to create the atmosphere and the environment of Planet Earth in which nothing of metaphysical import can be known in the sense of being proven. Within the veil, there is no way to claim to know or to apprehend the love and the light of the one infinite Creator except by faith.

Third density is a density of choice. Within third density lie beings that are self-aware, unlike those in second density, who are aware without being self-aware. There is a choice to be made in this density. All of the study, all of the thought, all of the experiencing within third density is intended to have a tendency to move one to points of choice. That choice is the choice of the self-aware entity for service to others and radiancy of being, or service to self and contraction of being. To put it another way, it is a choice between living by love and living by fear, or living by embracing all that there is as part of you and living by setting yourself over and apart from all other entities and forces within the creation.

At each choice-point there is no way to prove the goodness, the rightness, and the appropriateness of making that choice for love, for service to others, for radiancy. Similarly, there is no way to prove that the choice to aggrandize the self and create a universe in which those around you are considered to be pawns which you may move around as suits you would be the appropriate choice.

It is designed to be an environment in which you are completely free to chose to leap into faith or to become more and more heavily defended against all that you fear and to wield more and more power and control over your environment to keep yourself safe. It was not an environment designed to be easy to penetrate.

Now, what is faith? What is that leap into faith, which is not obvious and is not provable? How does that work? There comes a time for each seeker when there is a choice-point at which he must choose to act in faith that all is well in spite of evidence of the contrary, or to retreat in fear into a cave of his own imagining and to be thusly limited.

It is after an entity has chosen by faith to take that leap into faith that faith begins to prove itself a sturdy place to set one’s foot. It is only after the leap into the abyss of the unproven and mysterious that one gains one’s sure footing and becomes fearless and willing to be that entity whose approach to life is to look for love. With the veil in place, the decision to leap into faith has great weight and value.

It is a risky thing to do. It feels risky. It takes courage, integrity and will. It takes that of which the one known as G was speaking as a focus of desire, a seeking, a hunger, a thirst for the Creator, for truth, for love, for beauty. Therefore, there is tremendous intensity and power given to the one who makes that choice in faith.

Now, my brother, consider what the impact would be upon the environment of the Density of Choice if there were no veil, if all the answers were known. Certainly one could still make the correct decision and leap into faith, but there would not be the resistance and the back-pressure of fear from that part of the self that wants to be safe and to control one’s life. When one leaps into faith, one is not in control. One is saying, “Not my will, but thine. Not my imperfect understanding, but the way of love.” And that is the reason for the veil.

It is the combination of your free will as a seeker and the veil of forgetting that creates within you an implicit unawareness of the primacy of love that sets the shape of his path for the pilgrim. Each of you may be aware of the book called Pilgrim’s Progress by the one known as John. [5] In that figure of the pilgrim and his progress, there is an excellent analogy to the purpose of the veil. As one wins one’s way through life upon the King’s Highway, [6] every choice-point comes through one’s veil. And it is that pilgrim who prays for clarity and who asks where is the love in this choice that shall create within this density a bias toward service to others, towards love, towards radiance, that shall have tremendous impact, not simply upon this density now enjoyed by all of you, but upon the next two densities to come.

[zenmaster]

The veil is the illusion of linearity. The veil is the illusion of separation. To penetrate the veil means to no longer be bound by time, no longer be bound by a singular sequence but to realize the simultineity of all existences. To penetrate the veil means to move in to the 4th dimension, to become a part of time itself. Not only is the veil now being penetrated by many, but once a certain percentage all have pierced the veil it becomes unviable, and disperses. This is the harvest we now face.

I sort of agree with this, in the sense that the products of a linear mindset tends to reinforce the illusion (in a feedback loop). But as we know, the historical and mechanical understandings or memories are not part of the penetration, due to memory-recall problems and presumably the logos not thinking those aspects were important to evolution. However, that does not seem to stop those that 'penetrate' from falsely attributing these 'memories' to historical events and or mechanical principles.

I don't know what would be an example of, as you say, "those that penetrate".

Those that attribute some reclaimed knowledge or experience as being due to seeing behind the veil.

I don't know what you mean by "falsely attributing memories to mechanical principles."

There are different types of memories (procedural, declarative, etc.) or types of knowing or personal insight. What is perceived as being 'behind the veil' is often falsely depicted as if it were the same as a historical account, when in fact it is a dream or allegory that is forced into a historical context (and therefore necessarily in a grossly distorted form for that purpose). When I say 'mechanical', I am referring to the linear mindset that is our bodily and racial-mind inheritance and part of the veiling. What the logos 'saves' between 'personality shells' is the important biases and deeper concepts.

"30.4 Questioner: Is there any loss to the mind or spirit after this transition which we call death or any impairment of either because of the loss of this chemical body which we now have?

Ra: I am Ra. In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of the mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.

In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distortion of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience.

In terms of the spiritual, this channel is then much opened due to the lack of necessity for the forgetting characteristic of third density."

"Since the concepts of space/time, or physics, and time/space, or metaphysics, are mechanical they are not central to the spiritual evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex. The study of love and light is far more productive in its motion towards unity in those entities pondering such concepts. However, this material is, shall we say, of some small interest and is harmless."

[3DMonkey]

Ra says " these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience."

That is a HUGE understatement, I think. "Underestimated"? Try 'impossible to comprehend'! Oh, we can appreciate them, even acknowledge that they are there, but comprehend or 'SEE' them, we can not, no way no how. I believe when they become "obvious" is the point that they become useless to the 'person' we now consider our Self to be. Instead, the "obvious distortions" become the only 'part' of the Self that move on, i.e. useless, detached fields of energy, i.e. a silly light vibration realized on its own but unrealized by any Mind.

[Joseph326]

When one experiences such an expanded view of their beingness, there can indeed be a recollection of it by the 3d mind complex. Often it is difficult, if not impossible to translate the experience into terms that others or even the entity's mind itself can comprehend. This does not make the experience any less real, although the memory can quite often end up being incomplete, and what is retained is usually symbolic to some extent like a remembered dream usually is. In my own experience I have found it most effective to remember the feeling, as well as any details that remain in the memory. The brain is best at understanding things in a linear sequence, while the heart center can provide a connection beyond the constraints of space and time. Recalling an experience through both will give one more complete picture of it. The picture itself may still be beyond description with words.


Godwide void, I think you did an excellent job in describing what you 'saw'. I think that is about the best it can be described in words. The vision is very similar to an experience of
mine, which this mind/ body complex would remember as four years ago, but which is truly
an ongoing and ever-expanding event. I would like to see how far this similarity goes. Do you recall being spoken to by the being that you encountered and saw as the throne of galaxies? Not actual words that you could translate into dialog with your mind, what I am wondering is if they were words[i] that were of such intensely pure vibration that the entirety of the creation you were witnessing, including yourself,was shaken and changed by them. Also, was it just one face in the throne or multiple dimensions of faces in all directions?[/i]

---

Good God, I've got to find a better word for 'experience', I used it at least half a dozen times!

[godwide_void]

@Eddie: That Marla Freese audio was very, very interesting. I'm going to give it a few more listens, thank you very much!

@3DMonkey, Tenet, zenmaster, Azrael: Wow. You guys are making me love this forum even more with each new post made. Your keen insights and speculations into the technical aspects of the Law of One are all excellent food for thought. I simply viewed the veil to be that intangible barrier which encapsulates our unrestricted being in a temporary cage of illusion and makes true "knowing" impossible. The Q'uo meditation Tenet posted sums it all up.

@Joseph: As I stated before, from my perspective of 'awareness' it was as though I was both witnessing this throne as well as having become a part of it. There was no communication to me per se, all I recall is vibrating, droning, everywhere, as if everything in the ether was chattering amongst itself. So yes, it was moreso pure vibration as you put it. The entire throne itself was comprised of galaxies, solar systems, and the void as a canvas, and I recall there being smaller faces embedded in it, but for the most part everything came together to form this one central being. It was the experience I'd been searching for all my life. When you speak of the similar experience you had, what was it brought upon by?

[3DMonkey]

From the Saturday Meditation, 30 July 10 :

G:
It is a risky thing to do. It feels risky. It takes courage, integrity and will. It takes that of which the one known as G was speaking as a focus of desire, a seeking, a hunger, a thirst for the Creator, for truth, for love, for beauty. Therefore, there is tremendous intensity and power given to the one who makes that choice in faith.

Now, my brother, consider what the impact would be upon the environment of the Density of Choice if there were no veil, if all the answers were known. Certainly one could still make the correct decision and leap into faith, but there would not be the resistance and the back-pressure of fear from that part of the self that wants to be safe and to control one’s life. When one leaps into faith, one is not in control. One is saying, “Not my will, but thine. Not my imperfect understanding, but the way of love.” And that is the reason for the veil.

Going through a state of being with the veil in order to achieve the state of being without the veil. Is this the purpose of the veil? That makes no sense, just give me no veil and I will have succeeded before I began- sounds better to me.

I'm not sure there is a "point" to the veil. I think it happens to be here and we happen to be the veil itself. If their is a purpose, then, on all accounts, it is not a friendly purpose. Nobody in their right mind would choose to step into a veiled existence to get back to the unveiled existence they are leaving- that makes no sense.

---

Correct decision? Fear is good? Controlling one's own life is undesirable to those who choose love?

[Ankh]

Going through a state of being with the veil in order to achieve the state of being without the veil. Is this the purpose of the veil?

I think that purposes of the veil are multiple. Ra mentioned that before the veil people (with all the answers in their 'hands' so to speak) still wouldn't polarise, since who would want to leave the edenic living conditions, and so the 3rd density was taking way too long time. They also made an analogy of the veil being like a hidden hand in a poker game, and winning that game is only possible by putting all your cards on the table (meaning among other things unveiling your hand?). Love this analogy! And now Q'uo mention this, among other things that fear is an useful component to this experience. I think that all of these answers can be valid, or 'right', simultaneously, and there are probably more to it as well. There is no one 'right' answer, but several.

[zenmaster]

Nobody in their right mind would choose to step into a veiled existence to get back to the unveiled existence they are leaving- that makes no sense.

Speak for yourself.

[3DMonkey]

Nobody in their right mind would choose to step into a veiled existence to get back to the unveiled existence they are leaving- that makes no sense.

Speak for yourself.

Um, that is all I ever do. Would you, zenmaster, living without a veil whatsoever, choose to live a veiled life that only serves the purpose of trapping you until one odd day you get to return to the very same place you were at in the non-veiled state? (it is the same place, mind you, no veil, no discrepancies)

[zenmaster]

Nobody in their right mind would choose to step into a veiled existence to get back to the unveiled existence they are leaving- that makes no sense.

Speak for yourself.

Um, that is all I ever do. Would you, zenmaster, living without a veil whatsoever, choose to live a veiled life that only serves the purpose of trapping you until one odd day you get to return to the very same place you were at in the non-veiled state? (it is the same place, mind you, no veil, no discrepancies)

Where do you get this concept of same place?

[3DMonkey]

Going through a state of being with the veil in order to achieve the state of being without the veil. Is this the purpose of the veil?

I think that purposes of the veil are multiple. Ra mentioned that before the veil people (with all the answers in their 'hands' so to speak) still wouldn't polarise, since who would want to leave the edenic living conditions, and so the 3rd density was taking way too long time. They also made an analogy of the veil being like a hidden hand in a poker game, and winning that game is only possible by putting all your cards on the table (meaning among other things unveiling your hand?). Love this analogy! And now Q'uo mention this, among other things that fear is an useful component to this experience. I think that all of these answers can be valid, or 'right', simultaneously, and there are probably more to it as well. There is no one 'right' answer, but several.

I do like the poker analogy too. But why polarization at all with no veil? Why did Q'uo suggest a "correct decision" when Ra says there is no right or wrong? Q'uo also suggests that fear is our friend because is makes us release ourselves to accept someone's will other than our own.... so what is all the "use of the will by the adept" all about? Q'uo also suggests that any attempt to control our Self is to revert to fear.. is to follow the negative path--- but so many members here tell me that we must "balance" our control of our self... that too much release is detrimental... but isn't that fear? ... So, please tell me again, why the veil? What purpose does it serve? To give us what we already had before incarnation? I say this makes no sense.... unless there is ulterior motive.

What I believe is that the veil isn't a tool, isn't a motivator, isn't a benefit. I believe the veil is just a part of being human, something that makes us all galactic dumbasses, stupid humans that can't even figure out how to bend time and travel through space. (Let's blow it up and see what happens. We never die anyway, right? facetious)

---

Nobody in their right mind would choose to step into a veiled existence to get back to the unveiled existence they are leaving- that makes no sense.

Speak for yourself.

Um, that is all I ever do. Would you, zenmaster, living without a veil whatsoever, choose to live a veiled life that only serves the purpose of trapping you until one odd day you get to return to the very same place you were at in the non-veiled state? (it is the same place, mind you, no veil, no discrepancies)

Where do you get this concept of same place?

If, having no veil, we have full access to the unconscious (I'm assuming the full unconscious of the Total Self, the Self that has achieved 1D thru 6D) then this access would be never changing. No?

[zenmaster]

If, having no veil, we have full access to the unconscious (I'm assuming the full unconscious of the Total Self, the Self that has achieved 1D thru 6D) then this access would be never changing. No?

No. The veil limits access to what has been created up to the point of the veiling.

[3DMonkey]

If, having no veil, we have full access to the unconscious (I'm assuming the full unconscious of the Total Self, the Self that has achieved 1D thru 6D) then this access would be never changing. No?

No. The veil limits access to what has been created up to the point of the veiling.

So, you are saying that not only does the veil draw a line between conscious and unconscious in this incarnation, but it draws a line in my eternal existence- preventing me from access to my Higher Self even in time/space?

---

(LOL, this is starting to sound like the galactic equivalent to the American mentality- "give me as much as I can consume in a limited amount of time")

---

(quantity over quality)

[Ankh]

What I believe is that the veil isn't a tool, isn't a motivator, isn't a benefit. I believe the veil is just a part of being human, something that makes us all galactic dumbasses, stupid humans that can't even figure out how to bend time and travel through space. (Let's blow it up and see what happens. We never die anyway, right? facetious)

Ah, I do love your humor, brother (when I understand it ) Perhaps the veil is there to teach us something. Now, what would it possibly teach us? Well, that is the big question we've had for as long we've been reasonable conscious or awake I guess. What is the meaning of life?

If, having no veil, we have full access to the unconscious (I'm assuming the full unconscious of the Total Self, the Self that has achieved 1D thru 6D) then this access would be never changing. No?

The totality of the Self is stated in the material to be a 7D Being. Meaning the totality of all experiences - that has been going on for eternity experiencing the infinity, of no comprehendable measures for 3D mind (I would guess). Unconsciousness is still a 3D being, just aware of the consciousness in all things.

[zenmaster]

If, having no veil, we have full access to the unconscious (I'm assuming the full unconscious of the Total Self, the Self that has achieved 1D thru 6D) then this access would be never changing. No?

No. The veil limits access to what has been created up to the point of the veiling.

So, you are saying that not only does the veil draw a line between conscious and unconscious in this incarnation, but it draws a line in my eternal existence- preventing me from access to my Higher Self even in time/space?

The veil limits access to the conscious aspects of prior incarnations and limits conscious access to deeper mind in general. The portion of deeper mind is one way we access the higher self in a conscious manner.

[3DMonkey]

What I believe is that the veil isn't a tool, isn't a motivator, isn't a benefit. I believe the veil is just a part of being human, something that makes us all galactic dumbasses, stupid humans that can't even figure out how to bend time and travel through space. (Let's blow it up and see what happens. We never die anyway, right? facetious)

Ah, I do love your humor, brother (when I understand it ) Perhaps the veil is there to teach us something. Now, what would it possibly teach us? Well, that is the big question we've had for as long we've been reasonable conscious or awake I guess. What is the meaning of life?

The secret to life is that there is no secret. The veil is nothing more than a limiting factor to the human condition. It is the inability to recall every single moment of the past at any one second in time. Piercing the veil is simply when we remember something that we haven't brought to the active conscious in a long time. The veil is simply a piece of our archetypal make up.