Harvest: Do The Math

[hogey11]

The point I am trying to get at is that the paradigm is going to shift whether we want to admit it or not. The veil does not exist in 4D, so why do you fight so hard for its application? It will fade away, as the 4D energies are already here and the 4D earth had pretty much materialized already back when the LOO was given.

My point is that as we approach harvest, I think we are given a real chance to explore our heart's true desires. We've slogged our way through 3D, wouldn't it make sense that we be given a chance to show what we could do without all the restrictions and manipulations holding us down? I think we will be given a chance to show what we have learnt and given the chance to apply those ideas to our 4D positive transition. I see the Confederation as giving us that final shot; removing the reigns of duality at the last minute to allow us to align ourselves with our true intentions for harvest. That's the idea, anyways...

@Oceania

I think they would intervene unless it was already accepted by that entity's higher self. It may have been a karmic thing too, so its hard to declare anything absolutely

[3DMonkey]

The Confederation is part of duality. It isn't a court that decided we would be sentenced to existence of duality. They are the portion of what I like to call the funnel that steered our being into this form.

If the Confederation lifts the "quarantine" the structure of what is... Won't Be anymore.

[hogey11]

But for duality to exist, certain conditions must be true. I am arguing that disclosure will bring about a new set of conditions where those on the STS path will no longer be given the opportunity to control others like they had before. After this, we will see what the earth is really made of.

When the pressure is off, how will the earth respond? Will we still fight, argue, and squabble? I don't think we will.

---

Also, if duality is so sacred that landings cannot happen, how do you explain Ra's interactions with the Egyptians? (Or Queztl's in South America?) There is a disconnect here, imo. If we wish for help, they will provide it. I feel if these global issues do not get better, we could be asking for a whole lot of help in short order. We shall have to see

[Oceania]

i ask for help everyday.

[zenmaster]

Or is it the 'Disclosure' of Alan Greer's 1992 'Disclosure Project' fame, where the US simply admits to a conspiracy to withhold information it may have regarding a cover up of ET visitation and any related black projects. That version certainly does not necessarily involve worldwide media. That would be a great thing to demand, because then some department in the US government becomes the authority to convey the meaning and purpose of ET visitation. Imagine the possibilities for how such a revelation could be framed.

You mean Steven Greer? He still runs a disclosure project.

Right Steven, not Alan.

He was kind of funny on the Project Camelot interview. Very defensive.

Greer is another consequentialist in the disclosure movement - not trustworthy, IMO.

---

I am arguing that disclosure will bring about a new set of conditions where those on the STS path will no longer be given the opportunity to control others like they had before.

It will do the exact opposite. Confederation (the 'good guys') are always available to answer any questions for those that want to know the answers. What you are asking is for the confed to force a particular 'way', which is a free-will violation when others do not want to know the answers. So if they were to force their way, then the orions would be allowed to do the exact same thing, as the guardians will allow a precise balance.

[hogey11]

@zen

They wouldn't be 'enforcing' anything. The harvest is going to happen. I'm arguing disclosure as a part of the harvest, meaning the rules you are questioning would not be in effect.

The reason Orion entities would not hold power as they do is because Earth is going to be a 4D positive planet; the 'good guys' hold the trump card here as we move to 4D. 4D is not about balancing duality; it's about separating the good from the bad. I am not arguing this reality for a 3D earth, I am arguing this for a 4D or almost-4D earth only. At some point, this is going to become the Confederation's home field as a 4D positive planet. I feel disclosure will be the staking of it.

[zenmaster]

OK, but disclosure will not increase our polarization, regardless. That superficiality would be more confusing than anything. Even early 4th needs to be left alone.

[Raman]

If it happens, it will have to happen right at harvest or right after, and in order to avoid breaking freewill it will have to be with dual entities or harvestables (like with the 150 a tthe end of second cycle). Notice they only appeared to them not to a whole population (although this might not mean much since it was just a cycle and not the final one). And this is because earth will be a 4d pos planet. So disclosure cannot take place while on 3d, meaning a whole 3d density still available. What will be the motivation for 3d? 'oh ufos here, they are here!', them boom! they have to die because is harvest. Maybe I am not understanding your view correctly?

---

OK, but disclosure will not increase our polarization, regardless. That superficiality would be more confusing than anything. Even early 4th needs to be left alone.

To be alone from other densities not necessarily from other 4d complexes.

[BrownEye]

i think it's an invalid excuse. all free will to the extreme has done is make us suffer needlessly. since a lot of the "catalyst" is unused what POINT is there in it? none. and they approve of this needless crap. and what's done to animals is crazy. they're not here to polarize, so they shouldn't be affected. this whole thing is a disaster.

I don't think their are persons on a board of representatives their vote and discuss wht is allowed. I see it more like if all the members of this forum were actually my liver cells and I get blasted on tequila- we all complain about the pain, but I'm like 'sorry dudes, that's just a part of the drinking fun I enjoy, you're jus liver cells, it is part of being a liver cell'. You see what I mean? We don't have a choice because we aren't separate from anything. We are "intelligent infinity" (bleh) that has shaped energies into flesh. Then there are impulses of energies that are "mind" acting on this flesh within this spheres physics. We aren't some special individual who is loved by god. We are waves of expression of the universe. It just so happens that most of our pain is because of the paradox that we exist as a mind body spirit complex. It is this complex of thought that hurts us so. Oh, my dear, if I could only find the off button. There just isn't one.

Hummm, you made a good analogy for a body that is not aware that it creates cancer within itself.

That actually made me laugh LoL.

[3DMonkey]

i think it's an invalid excuse. all free will to the extreme has done is make us suffer needlessly. since a lot of the "catalyst" is unused what POINT is there in it? none. and they approve of this needless crap. and what's done to animals is crazy. they're not here to polarize, so they shouldn't be affected. this whole thing is a disaster.

I don't think their are persons on a board of representatives their vote and discuss wht is allowed. I see it more like if all the members of this forum were actually my liver cells and I get blasted on tequila- we all complain about the pain, but I'm like 'sorry dudes, that's just a part of the drinking fun I enjoy, you're jus liver cells, it is part of being a liver cell'. You see what I mean? We don't have a choice because we aren't separate from anything. We are "intelligent infinity" (bleh) that has shaped energies into flesh. Then there are impulses of energies that are "mind" acting on this flesh within this spheres physics. We aren't some special individual who is loved by god. We are waves of expression of the universe. It just so happens that most of our pain is because of the paradox that we exist as a mind body spirit complex. It is this complex of thought that hurts us so. Oh, my dear, if I could only find the off button. There just isn't one.

Hummm, you made a good analogy for a body that is not aware that it creates cancer within itself.

That actually made me laugh LoL.

lol, why? because i'm talking to my liver cells? or cuz i'm talking to them without compassion?

Is that how you see the mind creating cancer?

[hogey11]

@zen

Exactly. Disclosure will not increase our polarization, but it will allow those that are distorted to return to their true vibration. I don't feel we will be judged for harvest while the yoke of duality still holds on us. We do not walk the stairway of light before we die - we do so once the incarnation has finished and we have accepted that we move forward. In this way, who's not to say that much of our catalyst occurs upon our deaths and we experience the regrets of an incarnation lost or squandered...

@Raman

I don't believe that pure 3Ds will have to die in a mass moment or anything. I think the thing that will separate 3D from 4D is lifespan; 3D simply will die out while 4D move forward with a 90,000 year lifespan. In this way, I'd expect a LOT of very confused people post-disclosure. Some will run off and start their own communities out of distrust, some will hole themselves up and take handouts begrudgingly. Maybe some will use it as catalyst themselves and decide to join 4D and ascend; a benefit of observing the harvest, if you will.

Otherwise, you are bang on in that I feel disclosure will probably come very close to or on the harvest itself. Personally, I feel 1-1.5 years before a hard deadline of Dec. 2012 is probably close enough in a cycle of 75,000 years. The question is what is more important? A maximal harvest or the complete non-intervention of the Confederation? Part of me feels that a maximal harvest is priority #1, regardless if a few are given some 'free' catalyst. Also, a very large chunk of us are wanderers, to which such catalyst would be old news...

[Oceania]

yay Pickle! you hit the nail on the head!

[BrownEye]

Is that how you see the mind creating cancer?

You gave an example of a mind doing what "feels good" while ignoring what it does to the body which is there to allow the mind to move around and experience. By ignoring the needs of the body the mind will have to cut its experience short. An organism works together in a relationship. Otherwise it becomes more of a parasitic system.

[3DMonkey]

I

Is that how you see the mind creating cancer?

You gave an example of a mind doing what "feels good" while ignoring what it does to the body which is there to allow the mind to move around and experience. By ignoring the needs of the body the mind will have to cut its experience short. An organism works together in a relationship. Otherwise it becomes more of a parasitic system.

What is your perspective on the ability to drink while believing that the body is happy and benefitting?

---

Nevermind. I don't want to go there with you, Pickle. You have it all figured out. Forget I asked.

[BrownEye]

What is your perspective on the ability to drink while believing that the body is happy and benefitting?

---

Nevermind. I don't want to go there with you, Pickle. You have it all figured out. Forget I asked.

You mean as in controlling your reality? How about a point blank analogy LoL - How easy is it to pull the trigger aiming at your head and "believe" the result away? Too solid?

I guess you need to figure out where that imaginary line is, aside from the predetermined genetic markers you may activate.

Funny thoughts looking for that line.

[3DMonkey]

If we know the body well enough, we could live 900 years, would you say? Where is the imaginary line where trying to live forever becomes the equivalent of your analogy?

[BrownEye]

Ok a better way to put it, how can you believe away your choices?

[3DMonkey]

Technically you can. If you believe drinking is helping your body, then it is. If you believe you are alive after you have eliminated all blood from the body, then you are alive.

[BrownEye]

Ok looking at long lifespan, diet plays a part. Another part I have realized is the harboring of dark energy, which can make you a source of energy for other entities, whereas cording to you can suck life right out of your body shortening your lifespan. So not only controlling what you eat, but controlling how you deal with emotions also have an impact. Then the amount of choice/catalyst also has an effect on lifespan. If you look at those guys that live forever feeding off of light and air, they are also separate from daily catalyst.

Ra had mentioned that another aspect of the short lifespan is the amount of catalyst available allows for getting what is needed quickly.

Bashar mentions that folks will soon be living long lives again.

Put those two together and you may form the idea that there will be a sudden change in catalyst on the planet, as in a lack of......

We may be thrust into a life of zero technology and no processed or cooked foods. We will also be forced to slow down our meat eating habits since our hunting will be overlapping with every other guy out there hunting simultaneously. Things may be exactly as they were 3000 or more years ago.............boring as all heck, taking a full 900 years of life to gain the catalyst/choice that we now gain in 20 years.

[hogey11]

Things may be exactly as they were 3000 or more years ago.............boring as all heck, taking a full 900 years of life to gain the catalyst/choice that we now gain in 20 years.

I feel this is key, and it core to why the harvest is close approaching. Like Pickle is relating, life used to be BORING a few thousand years ago. You want monotony?!? Try hunting-gathering!

When I look around today, I notice kids are smarter and more mature than when I grew up; they are accepting more catalyst at earlier ages than many who came before them. The amount of catalyst available is GROWING, almost now to the point that a small child can understand many of the complexities of our lives through their own experience (whether it be personal or through media/internet). I feel this is a precursor to the harvest; the universe is getting impatient. It wants us to learn NOW.

[hogey11]

I wonder if the children growing up "quicker" could be attributed to the influx of Great Souls (harvest-ready) that wished to be incarnated for the harvest as well... not to mention that I could be completely wrong on that point as well. Kids were probably much more disciplined 60 years ago, truthfully.... but then is being disciplined an overall marker of spiritual growth?

... Now i'm just confused.

---

i think it's an invalid excuse. all free will to the extreme has done is make us suffer needlessly. since a lot of the "catalyst" is unused what POINT is there in it? none. and they approve of this needless crap. and what's done to animals is crazy. they're not here to polarize, so they shouldn't be affected. this whole thing is a disaster.

I don't think their are persons on a board of representatives their vote and discuss wht is allowed. I see it more like if all the members of this forum were actually my liver cells and I get blasted on tequila- we all complain about the pain, but I'm like 'sorry dudes, that's just a part of the drinking fun I enjoy, you're jus liver cells, it is part of being a liver cell'. You see what I mean? We don't have a choice because we aren't separate from anything. We are "intelligent infinity" (bleh) that has shaped energies into flesh. Then there are impulses of energies that are "mind" acting on this flesh within this spheres physics. We aren't some special individual who is loved by god. We are waves of expression of the universe. It just so happens that most of our pain is because of the paradox that we exist as a mind body spirit complex. It is this complex of thought that hurts us so. Oh, my dear, if I could only find the off button. There just isn't one.

I think this is an interesting argument. I think Oceania is coming from a frustrated 4D-ready standpoint, while 3DM is approaching this with one foot firmly planted in 3D. I feel the truth lies within a spectrum that changes over time. 85 years ago, 3DM would be 100% correct; however, over time, I think Oceania's argument is becoming more and more true.


I feel the question at hand has almost become "when does duality and the quarantine switch off in response to harvest?" Does it happen strictly after harvest takes place, or is it possible it's also a gradual thing that is handled on a case-by-case basis. Again, from the supposed channeled information as of late, the Quarantine has been lifted, and the only thing holding off Disclosure is a few rogue government military groups who have yet to join the bargaining table. Until they have made the proper agreements with these people, we will wait unless a deadline is passed, in which case the plans will go ahead without them. If harvest is an event in our space/time and they are here to help facilitate, this urgency makes sense. Approaching the planet in this way also makes sense to me in that there are many on this planet who can be manipulated to do atrocious things; it is best if you can disable any threats before making contact if possible.

[3DMonkey]

I definitely think it is case by case. I don't think harvest is a space/time event.

I will be very blunt here. The Council of Saturn is allegory and typical of the archetypical mind structure. You see them as literal, and that is fine because they do represent something real.

When I have quiet alone time I will attempt to express my point of view on even how the Confederation allowance of Ra to materialize is a representation of Archetypical Mind.

[Raman]

Hey go for it...

[hogey11]

I'm on board with that, monkey....

Even if that was true, the 4D+ entities outside and on our planet could be responding to the same Archetypical mind themselves - that puts us back in the same place.

I feel that harvest is a space/time event in that it will manifest itself at some point as a tipping point in our "story". I don't think its an ordained time or date; instead, its an inevitability that will come to us at some point or another. What it does to us is the true question; how do we transmute the energies? We may go into this blind, but I don't think harvest works like that. I think harvest is a reset button on everything, and I think the world is about to push it. When the world falls down, the 'Confederation' (or whoever they are) will be here to help institute the basis for a new 4D world.... and if not... well... I got a sack of rice in my basement

[AnthroHeart]

hogey, you can get a sack of beans too and make sprouts. Those are pretty nutritious.

[Oldern]

It is insane how the Law of One helps us when we are unconsiously looking for help.
To this argument, here is my 2 cents, but let me use a quote from Ra itself:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am Ra. Each mind/body/spirit or mind/body/spirit complex has an
existence simultaneous with that of creation. It is not dependent upon any
physical vehicle. However, in order to evolve, change, learn, and manifest
the Creator the physical vehicles appropriate to each density are necessary.
Your query implied that physical vehicles accelerated growth. The more
accurate description is that they permit growth.

Questioner: As an example I would like to take the distortion of a disease or
bodily malfunction prior to the veil and compare it to that after the veil. Let
us assume that the conditions that Jim experienced with respect to his
kidney malfunction had been an experience that occurred prior to the veil.
Would this experience have occurred prior to the veil? Would it have been
different? And if so, how?

Ra: I am Ra. The anger of separation is impossible without the veil. The
lack of awareness of the body’s need for liquid is unlikely without the veil.
The decision to contemplate perfection in discipline is quite improbable
without the veil.
---------------------------------------

Now, "discipline" that was taught to youth decades ago are now defunct, or to be more precise, people are not teaching that to the children of today anymore. Why? That is a good question. But the discipline itself is just as analogue to the limitations of the physical body compared to the spirit/mind portion of our complex, and therefore I think that it can only help and "permit" growth.

Discipline for us meant that we have to knew our place. We had limitations about where to go out at night, what to do, how to speak to our elders, superiors. Childrens nowadays have no such limitations, and when the parents weakly try to enforce one upon them, their "ego" (such a bad word, but I will make a thread about this in the weekend, got a lot of ideas!) refuses that immediately.

They want no limitations. But the choice is still there. No limitations is only okay if you are not hurting others in the process. London riots, anyone? Quite the opposite is happening. I do not know about others, but I would not expect any real - normal or 'mystical' power upon others when I am not trained perfectly to do only good things with it instead of wielding it so I become a catalyst of anger, fear and destruction for others. Thanks, but that is a role I would not wanna take. Today's youth, however, seems to be perfectly capable of wielding even that kind of responsibility, to state it bluntly.

[Richard]

Wonder where we'd be societally if Ra and his bunch hadn't tinkered around with us and inadvertantly created the Elite?

I know they are sorry and all. The Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow weep while we bleed.

How about fixing what you screwed up?

Sometimes Ra pisses me off if they catch me on a bad day.

Richard

[Oldern]

Richard, what do you mean?
(I would blindly say that if a 6th density being "pisses you off", the problem lies within you, but I do not get what did they mess up, and what did they create?)

[3DMonkey]

Wonder where we'd be societally if Ra and his bunch hadn't tinkered around with us and inadvertantly created the Elite?

I know they are sorry and all. The Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow weep while we bleed.

How about fixing what you screwed up?

Sometimes Ra pisses me off if they catch me on a bad day.

Richard

LOL.

What if? Well, I think the only thing that would be different is the name Ra. They didn't create this earth, neither did they turn it upside down. They just didn't achieve what they expected to. Nobody in the past did!

---

History repeating. That's why we understand one thing- that if this world is gonna change then a complete change in chemical structure will need to occur. Otherwise, same old s*** different day

[native]

The thing is if Ra has access to possibility/probability why would they have done it knowing that their message would be distorted? Perhaps in such an interaction they are restricted access for the purpose of learning a lesson, or we simply find ourselves in the vortex where things went wrong and everything is peachy elsewhere.