More Positive but Less Harvestable

[Tenet Nosce]

Those 'spiritual' people, whether fundamentalist religious, New Age, Wanderers, or whatever - all doing the same thing: Trying to change the world in a positive way.

I am not trying to make anybody "wrong" for trying to change the world in a better way. I am just saying pay attention to the "way" that some people go about it... that will have some RA-mifications later on in mid 4th density that one would do well to consider.

All of these various causes are going to eventually have to be reconciled in a harmonious way...? Yes?

Bring4th_Monica, you seem like you have a balanced head on your shoulders. And we know how much you care for the animals. I just don't understand why it is so easy in your mind to make excuses for those who "go way too far in the direction of control". Honestly, I think those folks are getting more in the way of the "cause", than helping it. I really do..

How is this:

Some work for peace, others work to champion the oppressed (whether those 'oppressed' be cancer victims, rape victims, victims of war, gays, animals, unborn babies, or whatever). By championing the oppressed, by necessity they must tell the oppressors to stop oppressing, thereby "telling them how to live."

congruent with this:

Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

So.... ? I really am confused. It looks to me that you have given up on possible, and went for probable.

How does "telling someone how to live" help one polarize more positively? Doesn't that open up the door for negative manipulation? Forcing one's will upon another. Can we learn anything from Akhenaten, or are we doomed to repeat the same mistake over and over again? Are we going to carry this distortion with us into 4D? Or will we let it go?

We can't agree on what that might be.

How about this?

All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.

or this?

In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

I do think it is very odd/strange/interesting/curious that so much conversation I see going on in this forum seems to ignore the above paragraph, which is pretty much the most developed statement of the Law of One that we have available to us. Some people appear to want to just skip right past that one there... just as the Questioner did in Session One. :idea:

No right or wrong? Oh certainly Ra couldn't have meant that literally. No, no, no. That wouldn't make any sense. Oh no, there is DEFINITELY right or wrong. Ra just didn't get into that because they wanted to hurry up and tell us about the coming earth changes. :-/

Also, just want to go on record that the "..." in your quote, I feel is important. Do you have a comment on the "..." or do we concur on that?

If I had to guess, I would be somewhere in the 75 - 85% range. But even in my guessing, you can clearly see how ABSURD it is to continue with this line of thinking. It doesn't get you anywhere you want to be. So what? Tenet is 55.7% and PFC JoeBob is 55.4%, so Tenet's view comes out on top? That actually sounds kind of like how a highly polarized STS entity would arrange things.

In fact, Ra rarely uses the word "should" in the material. And when Ra does, it is in reference to how to make for a clearer channel. So, given the goal of improving the transmission, what "should" the group do?

Most of the "should"s in the material come from the questioner. Personally, I happen to feel that the persistent use of this word in the query causes more distortion of the message than whether or not the candle was facing in the "right" direction, for example.

[3DMonkey]

"fighting" for the "oppressed" does not facilitate Transformation for the Other or for the Collective.

Taking up a "fight" by choice will offer Self opportunities to Transform Self, however the Chooce may be reached by the Self.

[Tenet Nosce]

I have a friend who is right this minuet struggling with this fear. She tells me every night, she opens her bible and begins to cry so hard she closes it again. She is struggling with her actions. She LOVES having relations with men, and does quite often with many. Her family drags her to church every sunday. She is in such turmoil it brings myself to tears :/

I truly hope your friend finds some peace in her life, and that her "loved" ones would see the wisdom in not forcing their views and lifestyle upon her.

She herself is full of light and love, and likes to express herself through sex. But the fear of eternal damnation consumes her life. The idea is nothing more than control. A holy thumb pressed hard upon the backs of those who have never known another way. Its "unholy" to explore "blasphemous" teachings and understandings...

Right. Because "we say" that it is bad, you can't play with it. And whatever "we say" goes.

We may not all have the ability to reach millions with this message. But I believe that we are where we are for a reason.

Me too.

[Tenet Nosce]

... and don't forget these!

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.

Ra: I am Ra. We wish no quibbling but prefer to avoid the use of terms such as the verb, to allow. Free will does not allow, nor would predetermination disallow, experiential distortions. Rather the Law of Confusion offers a free reach for the energies of each mind/body/spirit complex. The verb, to allow, would be considered pejorative in that it suggests a polarity between right and wrong or allowed and not allowed. This may seem a minuscule point. However, to our best way of thinking it bears some weight.

Yea. This seemingly miniscule point bears some weight to my best way of thinking also. Notice how Ra was attempting to give a HINT as to how to frame a query in order to get a clear response.

As to the instrument, the journey from worth in action to worth in esse is arduous. The entity has denied itself in order to be free of that which it calls addiction*. This sort of martyrdom, and here we speak of the small but symbolically great sacrifice of the clothing, causes the entity to frame a selfhood in poorness which feeds unworthiness unless the poverty is seen to be true richness. In other words, good works for the wrong reasons cause confusion and distortion. We encourage the instrument to value itself and to see that its true requirements are valued by the self. We suggest contemplation of true richness of being.

So that pretty much sums up Ra's view on "wrongness". Excepting a couple of trivial points on the proper use of crystals and pyramids in healing work.

By contrast, I counted 17 times the presence of the word "wrong" in the query.

[zenmaster]

In other words, good works for the wrong reasons cause confusion and distortion.

This deserves its own thread. The STS elite would encourage such good works for the wrong reasons.

[Tenet Nosce]

In other words, good works for the wrong reasons cause confusion and distortion.

This deserves its own thread. The STS elite would encourage such good works for the wrong reasons.

Agreed! I see several other threads bumping up against this concept.

[unity100]

I am very interested in figuring out what went on there. So.. hmm.. I see there is a lot of confusion over Yahweh, Jehovah, YHVH (and permutations), et al. Which is interesting, but not where I want to direct my thought as of yet. I am referring to whomever became the One God of the Hebrews, and who was featured in Exodus. Is there a name we can agree on to assign to this entity?

you can maybe use 'confederate yahweh' and 'orion yahweh'.

Also, I am curious how you arrived at 1600 BC for the Orion entity contact. That would place it during the chaotic "Second Intermediate" rather than the "New Kingdom" period of Egyptian history.

So you are saying Ra contact is in the time of Sargon the Great and at the end of the Old Kingdom of Egypt? Do you have an argument or evidence to support that claim? Or..?

if you are just using yahweh as a misnomer to refer to the orion entity that usurped it later, that orion entity was not past the quarantine, and working in earth at the time of last contact by Ra. that outfit was able to get past quarantine through a random window around 1600 BC or something.

Again, where are you coming up with your timeframe? I am not asking in an argumentative fashion, but rather because I am eager to know if there is something important I overlooked.

actually there is something you greatly overlooked :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#7

orion group had been able to put an extraterrestrial vehicle past the quarantine through random window effect, approx at 1600 BC. (3600 years before 1980 ADish. makes 1620 BC or so).

they were unable to maintain their presence for long, and after 600 years, they seem to left in around ~ 1000 BC, from what we read. during this era, numerous 'prophets' have sprung up with their push.

Yes! I am trying to trace this distortion through time, given the information that we have available to us. Ah, so maybe are you saying the assertion that Ra caused the distortion goes too far?? It had already been going on long before the Ra contact.

martians brought from mars, not only had the spiritual biases and dynamics of mars they accumulated (whatever happened there leading to that destruction), but also yahweh gave them genetically modified bodies, which were superior to native gaians. this speedily led to a superiority complex in the entities inhabiting these bodies apparently. coupled with the increased ability to make and modify tools and the greater mental ability genetically built into these bodies (to better understand the creator, apparently ...), seems to have led to extensive warring through tools, carrying over the elitism-enslavement dynamic inevitably to all other cultures.

OK OK, sorry Ra! Still... whenever Ra makes the Egypt contact, they did not foresee the Orion entity coming in and twisting everything around. Or did they???

Let us assume they DID NOT know. That means that, whatever state of being they were coming from at the time, [Late 4th density, early 5th density??] they were unable to see the potentially negative outcomes of their "intervention". (Sorry, but I still see it as an intervention.) Do you have another word for this? What would you call it?

In any case, in consideration of a late 3rd density/early 4th density entity wanting to polarize more positively... well all I am trying to say is BE WISE about it. Just because an action is loving, does not mean it can't be twisted to the negative side.

excuse me, but you are making a lot of far-flung conclusions with lacking information. ra was neither late 4th or early 5th density during the time of egypt contact. they were late 6d, as they are now, this information is present in the material, just like how the information regarding the dates for yahweh and orion influences were.

you either dont remember these, or havent paid attention to these, but you are making rather far flung conclusions.

you can just search 'yahweh' and 'orion' and etc through lawofone info and establish the proposal you are going to tell better, if you do not have the time to read the books again.

if you dive deeper, the question would go as far as maldek to the spiritual influences acting on this solar system, and even to Ra's own experience itself.

Absolutely! Which gets to exactly why I take such a hard line on violent and warlike thinking, as evidenced by earlier in this thread.

I feel like this Maldek influence is mucking things up for everybody else, who are more than ready to move on. Look, you guys destroyed your own flippin' planet, came here, jacked around for thousands (tens of thousands, millions???) of years. STILL can't figure out how to live in peace. Welp! Sorry, guys, we gave it a good run. We'll catch up with you in mid sixth density and have a cup of nectar together. Time to move on!!

most of maldek entities left this planet before it started 3d. few remaining joined this planet in 3d. it is probable that some joined mars experience, and after mars 3d ended in destruction, they were ferried over to earth to join its 3d. but, it cant be said that maldek entities are here en masse.

it is also questionable that, percentage of maldek entities joining mars was able to effect the exact similar pattern leading up to destruction of mars.

the problem seems to be more deeply rooted in the solar system wide 3d practice - namely, the veil being made heavier after Ra's experience. apparently, to 'preserve free will' of entities.

it seems because veil was heavier, entities were having a harder time harvesting. and there seems to be interventions made to provide for penetration of the veil through technology or through pyramid constructs and so on. this may have happened on maldek too. however they acquired it, maldek entities acquired nuclear weapons and destroyed their entire planet.

come mars, similar pattern. come earth, an excessive warlike pattern even before the population acquires any noticeable technology that can be used in warfare.

......

whatever the problem is, it is hampering the development of the entities of 3d in this solar system in regard to emotion/spiritual sphere, and keeping them regressing back to 2d patterns. if, any kind of technology given to such populations, they are using it to effect destruction as a result of fixations, stubbornness and herd consciousness of 2d behavior patterns.

the problem here is with the logos and the extremely heavy veil it employed after the Ra experience. it caused 'non experience/non free will' of billions of entities, while supposedly effecting 'free will' because, it seems, ra entities didnt have much 'free will' in their 3d experience. ironically, it is that Ra entities which didnt have enough 'free will' who are bailing out this planet, which was destined for another major failure, if those Ra entities and similar did not incarnate en masse.

the party needing the wisdom/love you speak about, is the logos of this solar system.

Given those three assumptions- Why are all the "spiritual" people of the world still arguing over details about how people "should" or "should not" live their lives???? What good is it doing anybody who might be teetering on the edge, to set out ideals of conduct that are most likely unattainable between now and the end of next year? Why not just WAIT for fourth density perception to arrive, and then reevaluate our ethical systems then, when we can see much more clearly?

Isn't there something that we can ALL get behind? RIGHT NOW? Some sort of unified message?

Any suggestions, unity100? Or anybody else?

there are should nots at any given point in the development of an entity from 1 to end 8th density.

destroying planets with nuclear devices, are one of those should nots.

and no, actually, you cannot get behind any 'unified' message. the problem in this nexus and apparently a few of the other nexi, is with that 'unified' or 'oneness' being impressed upon the populations.

oneness, or unifiedness is not something that can be perceived properly, leave aside practically manifested until 6th density. there is a reason why it is the meaning and nature, and entire lesson of an entire density named 6th - because it is the property, and lesson of THAT density.

the central logos of this galaxy seems to have emphasized it (oneness concept) in its creation. moreover, this particular logos of this solar system also seems to have built on it.

and it is creating all the problems we are experiencing today.

the only way 3d entities, which are fresh out of 2d, which sees everything as an extension of self, manifest 'oneness' is through 2d mindset - herd, or seeing everything as an extension of self again. therefore, any thought/belief/emotion that is in the psyche, societal division of any group, seems to be seen as the 'oneness' that should be manifested.

after that, queue repression, queue wars, queue conflicts against other groups which have their own beliefs and approaches.

even if apparently all the populations on the planet get affected by that 'unification' concept, this especially gets to surface in blatant form in the groups which have been effected into religions that promote negativity over that 'oneness'. it is apparently a mechanic that bolsters the problem of manifesting oneness in 3d societies regressing back to 2d. the entities identify belief with themselves, and then attempt to unify everyone in it. and most affected are the societies which were culturally, or genetically effected by yahweh, or distorted by orion. the latter seems to have preferred to work over the framework yahweh created.

............

you shouldnt get behind a certain message. you shouldnt manifest 'oneness' culturally in 3d either - 3d is a density of 'many'es, and there should be many different thoughts and patterns and whatsoever in this environment - not only because it is 3d, but also because there are a lot of souls from a lot of different places. this means a lot of spiritual biases, a lot of patterns.

trying to mold this into something through any means, would cause hampering of patterns different than this solar system's. the exception is the cases in which these patterns are harmful to others' patterns - like blowing up an entire planet through weapons, or subduing/massacring/brainwashing masses through technology, or somehow affecting their development adversely.

true approach should be, not only allowing but accepting different thoughts, perspectives, patterns, approaches without trying to unify or 'uniformize' them.

'let them be' as long as they dont break others seems to be the necessity.

after 6th, there is another density. it is 7th. 6th density's meaning - which is oneness - is not the entire meaning and nature of the existence. there are endless numbers of densities carrying different meanings, in endless number of octaves, before, and after the 6th density in this octave.

[Monica]

I am not trying to make anybody "wrong" for trying to change the world in a better way. I am just saying pay attention to the "way" that some people go about it... that will have some RA-mifications later on in mid 4th density that one would do well to consider.

Of course!

All of these various causes are going to eventually have to be reconciled in a harmonious way...? Yes?

Absolutely!

Bring4th_Monica, you seem like you have a balanced head on your shoulders.

Thanks! Coming from you, that means a lot to me!

And we know how much you care for the animals. I just don't understand why it is so easy in your mind to make excuses for those who "go way too far in the direction of control". Honestly, I think those folks are getting more in the way of the "cause", than helping it. I really do..

Um...Can you elaborate? Whom am I making excuses for? I'm a Ron Paul supporter. I champion individual rights. So I have no clue what you're referring to.

Some work for peace, others work to champion the oppressed (whether those 'oppressed' be cancer victims, rape victims, victims of war, gays, animals, unborn babies, or whatever). By championing the oppressed, by necessity they must tell the oppressors to stop oppressing, thereby "telling them how to live."

congruent with this:

Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

So.... ? I really am confused. It looks to me that you have given up on possible, and went for probable.

Gosh, not at all! But the difference between your approach and mine, from what I gleaned from your earlier post about just "waiting for 4D and sorting it out then" is that I believe in action. I believe that we make it happen, to a degree. We are part of the equation. Our actions might trigger the tipping point that results in that one strong, fine moment of transformation.

How does "telling someone how to live" help one polarize more positively? Doesn't that open up the door for negative manipulation? Forcing one's will upon another.

How did you get the idea that I thought it was ok to force one's will upon another?

All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.

Sure. That's nice. But it's just philosophical. That's like saying, "Let's all just agree that love is the key." It doesn't address the application of said philosophy.

In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

Sure. But that is one quote among many. All must be reconciled. What about the quotes in which Ra declined the offer of STS? One single quote cannot sum up the entire Law of One.

I do think it is very odd/strange/interesting/curious that so much conversation I see going on in this forum seems to ignore the above paragraph, which is pretty much the most developed statement of the Law of One that we have available to us.

No right or wrong? Oh certainly Ra couldn't have meant that literally. No, no, no. That wouldn't make any sense. Oh no, there is DEFINITELY right or wrong. Ra just didn't get into that because they wanted to hurry up and tell us about the coming earth changes. :-/

That quote is important. But so are the quotes about polarity. All must be taken into consideration, together.

Please see Strictly Law of One > Acceptance and Will which delves deeply into this issue.

Also, just want to go on record that the "..." in your quote, I feel is important. Do you have a comment on the "..." or do we concur on that?

I don't understand your question. I quoted the parts I was responding to, and used the '...' as a placeholder to show that I left some of your comments out. What are you asking?

Edit: Referenced link has been corrected.

[Tenet Nosce]

'let them be' as long as they dont break others seems to be the necessity.

Agreed. Well some way or another it looks like we arrive at the same bottom line. And getting back to the war subtheme, the resistance to 'let them be' is what results in war on a mass scale. At least, I think? :-/

You've got some great info in that post which I want to consider more thoroughly. On the timing issue, though I can already say that

We have difficulty dealing with your time/space. There may again be errors of this type.

is what caused me to question the numbers given in that, and the later query you also linked to.

So I do think that is still up in the air, and I don't see why looking to history to in an attempt to link some of the events is automatically out just because the numbers don't line up.

As you know, the numbering system has been changed multiple times resulting in all manner of confusion. Not to mention whatever clarity or lack thereof was in the mind of the channel at the time of the contact.

---

Um...Can you elaborate? Whom am I making excuses for? I'm a Ron Paul supporter. I champion individual rights. So I have no clue what you're referring to.

I guess I'm doing a horrible job with this one. You referred to the doctor who misdirected you. Your animal rights activist friends who think you don't go far enough. I'm not saying you do it. By "make excuses" I mean go along with it, I guess. It doesn't really matter I suppose.

Gosh, not at all! But the difference between your approach and mine, from what I gleaned from your earlier post about just "waiting for 4D and sorting it out then" is that I believe in action. I believe that we make it happen, to a degree. We are part of the equation. Our actions might trigger the tipping point that results in that one strong, fine moment of transformation.

Hrmmm. So yeah.. then what I've been trying to get at is this: What actions could we take that are the most congruent? There are so many issues and everybody is divided among them. Can't we put some details aside for the moment and focus on the root cause? The illusion of separation...

How shall we treat each other?

All is One. We are all connected. Therefore how one treats another is a reflection of how one treats oneself...

How shall we live?

All is One. All is life. Expressing itself in an infinite variety of ways, none greater than another...

What shall we eat?

All is One. All is Life. Through eating we share in the connectedness of all things...

[Shall, not should. A seemingly miniscule point.] :idea:

I'm not saying we have to agree on everything. Goodness, no! I am suggesting we might want to try starting from the same place and seeing how that conversation turns out.

What can we agree upon? Rather than what do we disagree upon?

What are we for? Rather than what are we against?

How did you get the idea that I thought it was ok to force one's will upon another?

I didn't. I think some zealots, however, do. (You not being one of them.)

I don't understand your question. I quoted the parts I was responding to, and used the '...' as a placeholder to show that I left some of your comments out. What are you asking?

I was asking for your opinion on the three statements represented by the ... Yea? Nay? Irrelevant?

[Monica]

there are should nots at any given point in the development of an entity from 1 to end 8th density.

There is no 'right' or 'wrong' from the perspective of the One, but there is from the perspective of the many, depending on what the chosen path is. We've covered this ground before, in other threads. Ultimately, there aren't any mistakes, but from our perspective, there are definitely mistakes. If one wants to polarize STO and goes out and murders people, I'd say that's a mistake. But what is a mistake, anyway? But just inefficient use of catalyst. What is 'wrong' anyway? Inefficient use of catalyst, which will then attract undesirable consequences.

destroying planets with nuclear devices, are one of those should nots.

Yeah, I'd say destroying planets isn't cool.

the only way 3d entities, which are fresh out of 2d, which sees everything as an extension of self, manifest 'oneness' is through 2d mindset - herd, or seeing everything as an extension of self again. therefore, any thought/belief/emotion that is in the psyche, societal division of any group, seems to be seen as the 'oneness' that should be manifested.

Oh wow, I hadn't thought of it that way, but sounds right on! Very perceptive analysis there.

even if apparently all the populations on the planet get affected by that 'unification' concept, this especially gets to surface in blatant form in the groups which have been effected into religions that promote negativity over that 'oneness'. it is apparently a mechanic that bolsters the problem of manifesting oneness in 3d societies regressing back to 2d. the entities identify belief with themselves, and then attempt to unify everyone in it. and most affected are the societies which were culturally, or genetically effected by yahweh, or distorted by orion. the latter seems to have preferred to work over the framework yahweh created.

That actually explains a lot; why they seek to coerce everyone else to believe as they do.

you shouldnt get behind a certain message. you shouldnt manifest 'oneness' culturally in 3d either - 3d is a density of 'many'es, and there should be many different thoughts and patterns and whatsoever in this environment - not only because it is 3d, but also because there are a lot of souls from a lot of different places. this means a lot of spiritual biases, a lot of patterns.

Oneness is certainly an advanced concept. Maybe the focus should just be on acceptance. If the 3D entities could only accept one another despite their differences...

the exception is the cases in which these patterns are harmful to others' patterns - like blowing up an entire planet through weapons, or subduing/massacring/brainwashing masses through technology, or somehow affecting their development adversely.

This illustrates my response to Tenet: Telling others how to live isn't appropriate...unless they start interfering with others...then it is appropriate to not let them impose on others...whether it's imposing their religion or blowing up a planet...that is imposing and it crosses a line.

true approach should be, not only allowing but accepting different thoughts, perspectives, patterns, approaches without trying to unify or 'uniformize' them.

Exactly!

'let them be' as long as they dont break others seems to be the necessity.

Is there an echo in here?

[unity100]

'let them be' as long as they dont break others seems to be the necessity.

Agreed. Well some way or another it looks like we arrive at the same bottom line. And getting back to the war subtheme, the resistance to 'let them be' is what results in war on a mass scale. At least, I think? :-/

2d consciousness is not a responsible one. it is animalistic, stubborn and has herd consciousness. it is natural for populations regressing to orange to act animalistic. it includes aggressive behaviour, however this may be stemming more from the fact that the logos of this galaxy generally raised its 3d entities through animal bodies instead of plant bodies, and the environments for those animal bodies were not so harmoniously positive.

especially when you make a species weak compared to its environment, the only means for that specie to survive would be to constantly wage war with its environment. this planet's early late 2d-early 3d hominoid ape body cultures have lived in constant struggle. more reasons to become warlike.

however, for any measure of 'let them be' to be possible, isolation is also needed. else, any population that would be more damaging to masses multiples of their numbers could be able to damage other populations. this includes negative groups, as well as irresponsible unoriented groups.

this may be another result of the 'one' fixation that is found on this solar system. in order to create a 'unified' planetary dynamic, technology that would allow huge mobility to make global connections/migrations easier and therefore 'merge' the planetary population socially may have been attempted.

this totally removes isolation, and amplifies the power of irresponsible or damaging inclinations to multiples of their numbers.

if we look at maldek, mars, since they had both used nuclear devices or other weapons to destroy themselves or the 3d biosphere, both planetary societies had such huge mobility. if you are able to detonate a nuclear device, it means you have the technology to make vehicles to traverse great distances. same pattern also applied on this planet.

however, we dont see the same pattern in Ra's experience. they werent so technologically advanced like these planets and societies we count above.

We have difficulty dealing with your time/space. There may again be errors of this type.

is what caused me to question the numbers given in that, and the later query you also linked to.

So I do think that is still up in the air, and I don't see why looking to history to in an attempt to link some of the events is automatically out just because the numbers don't line up.

As you know, the numbering system has been changed multiple times resulting in all manner of confusion. Not to mention whatever clarity or lack thereof was in the mind of the channel at the time of the contact.

---

ra doesnt use planetary numbering system. they translate the time passed into the current measurement unit. the discrepancy you propose is not something that throws off the precision any noticeable amount. ~9500BC date for final sinking of atlantis and the migration of the atlantean refugees coincide with gobeklitepe, for example.

basically no, nothing is up in the air. the numbers are not only precise, but also fitting with the events. moses being talked to by the burning bush and all that.

[Monica]

You referred to the doctor who misdirected you. Your animal rights activist friends who think you don't go far enough. I'm not saying you do it. By "make excuses" I mean go along with it, I guess.

Oh, I don't go along with it...not anymore anyway. That health practitioner misdirecting me, that happened almost 30 years ago. I was young and naive. I eventually stood up to her. And I respect my vegan friends who do more than I do. I don't make excuses for them. I accept them. Of course, there are always a few radicals in every bunch...the animal rights movement has some extremists (my use of the term extremists refers to those who are violent, just like the pro-life activists who blow up abortion clinics, or terrorists...those who are violent, are extremists, in my view) just like other movements. I agree it probably doesn't matter, but I'm still curious why you thought I was making excuses for them.

Hrmmm. So yeah.. then what I've been trying to get at is this: What actions could we take that are the most congruent? There are so many issues and everybody is divided among them. Can't we put some details aside for the moment and focus on the root cause? The illusion of separation...

I'm not sure that's possible, being that we all have different missions. Some of us might have chosen to take on the daunting task of being outspoken and proactive, while others might have taken on the mission to help a handful of troubled souls make the grade, while others might have agreed to meditate on a mountaintop all day, in order to offset the negative energies on this planet. Some might have incarnated into New Age/wholistic circles, while others have chosen the fundamentalist religious social circle, in order to help facilitate changes within. We each have our unique role to play. One of my good friends is a Christian, though not fundamentalist, and is actually deemed a heretic by his fellow Christians, but I consider him to have the best grasp of the Law of One of just about anyone I've ever met. I believe him to be a Wanderer, who has infiltrated the Christian community and is working from the inside, to help awaken those people. It's all good.

How shall we treat each other?

All is One. We are all connected. Therefore how one treats another is a reflection of how one treats oneself...

How shall we live?

All is One. All is life. Expressing itself in an infinite variety of ways, none greater than another...

What shall we eat?

All is One. All is Life. Through eating we share in the connectedness of all things...

I appreciate your efforts, Tenet, I really do! But right there, I see an incongruency.

Looking at the first adage:

how one treats another is a reflection of how one treats oneself...

and the last

Through eating we share in the connectedness of all things.

I see them as incongruent, if eating includes animals. I don't want to resurrect that debate here. I'm just pointing out that, in order for us to agree on even such 'basic' tenets, we'd first have to define the term you used in #1: another. What is another? What is an other-self? Is an animal an other-self?

Do you see how this can quickly get complicated?

That's why we don't want to turn this into a religion. As soon as we start laying down rules, we encounter a slippery slope, where we won't all agree, not even on what seems like basic stuff.

I'm not saying we have to agree on everything. Goodness, no! I am suggesting we might want to try starting from the same place and seeing how that conversation turns out.

What can we agree upon? Rather than what do we disagree upon?

What are we for? Rather than what are we against?

I think that's a noble goal to pursue. In the meat thread, abridgetoofar and I accomplished that, to a large degree. Even though we had some opposing views, we both realized that we were on the same team, with the same eventual goals. It was a beautiful thing.

I didn't. I think some zealots, however, do. (You not being one of them.)

Whew, ok.

[Tenet Nosce]

ra doesnt use planetary numbering system. they translate the time passed into the current measurement unit. the discrepancy you propose is not something that throws off the precision any noticeable amount. ~9500BC date for final sinking of atlantis and the migration of the atlantean refugees coincide with gobeklitepe, for example.

So between 9500BC and, say 2500BC, what happened, according to your understanding?

basically no, nothing is up in the air. the numbers are not only precise, but also fitting with the events. moses being talked to by the burning bush and all that.

Wait. Are you saying that Ra was the burning bush? And that Moses walked the Earth in 9500BC? If not, what are you saying?

---

I agree it probably doesn't matter, but I'm still curious why you thought I was making excuses for them.

I don't know where I got that idea, then. I must have projected that onto you. My apologies.

I'm not sure that's possible, being that we all have different missions. Some of us might have chosen to take on the daunting task of being outspoken and proactive, while others might have taken on the mission to help a handful of troubled souls make the grade, while others might have agreed to meditate on a mountaintop all day, in order to offset the negative energies on this planet. Some might have incarnated into New Age/wholistic circles, while others have chosen the fundamentalist religious social circle, in order to help facilitate changes within. We each have our unique role to play. One of my good friends is a Christian, though not fundamentalist, and is actually deemed a heretic by his fellow Christians, but I consider him to have the best grasp of the Law of One of just about anyone I've ever met. I believe him to be a Wanderer, who has infiltrated the Christian community and is working from the inside, to help awaken those people. It's all good.

That's why we don't want to turn this into a religion. As soon as we start laying down rules, we encounter a slippery slope, where we won't all agree, not even on what seems like basic stuff.

Ewww! Lord God I hope not, and pray that Jesus save us from this fate!

Well now you understand why it concerns me when one tries to draw an ethical absolutism based on the Law of One.

I am suggesting, try leaving the "should"s and the "wrong"s out of the conversation and see where that leads!

War is wrong. You shouldn't kill people.

Bah. That strategy clearly hasn't worked.

How shall we end war?

All is One. We are all connected... I wish to know where that conversation leads.

[Monica]

I was asking for your opinion on the three statements represented by the ... Yea? Nay? Irrelevant?

OK, assuming you mean these:

If I had to guess, I would be somewhere in the 75 - 85% range. But even in my guessing, you can clearly see how ABSURD it is to continue with this line of thinking. It doesn't get you anywhere you want to be. So what? Tenet is 55.7% and PFC JoeBob is 55.4%, so Tenet's view comes out on top? That actually sounds kind of like how a highly polarized STS entity would arrange things.

I didn't comment on this because none of us can know what our percentage is, until we walk the Steps of Light. I haven't seen anyone on this forum focus on guessing percentages. We do discuss how to polarize, and we can certainly wonder about ourselves privately perhaps, but I see no point in guessing about others.

In fact, Ra rarely uses the word "should" in the material. And when Ra does, it is in reference to how to make for a clearer channel. So, given the goal of improving the transmission, what "should" the group do?

Most of the "should"s in the material come from the questioner. Personally, I happen to feel that the persistent use of this word in the query causes more distortion of the message than whether or not the candle was facing in the "right" direction, for example.

[/quote]

The word should has a connotation of one dictating to another what they ought to do. Ra didn't do this, out of respect to free will. But that's not to say that guidelines weren't given; ie. appropriate actions for the respective paths.

[Tenet Nosce]

you either dont remember these, or havent paid attention to these, but you are making rather far flung conclusions.

Hence the ?? I am not giving an authoritative discourse, I am thinking out loud. Writing helps me to better view my thoughts. Sharing it with others helps me to see where there might be blind spots or gaps. So, thanks. I think?

come mars, similar pattern. come earth, an excessive warlike pattern even before the population acquires any noticeable technology that can be used in warfare.

Any ideas how to break this pattern? Or turn it to the positive?

ironically, it is that Ra entities which didnt have enough 'free will' who are bailing out this planet, which was destined for another major failure, if those Ra entities and similar did not incarnate en masse.

Yes, that is ironic.

the party needing the wisdom/love you speak about, is the logos of this solar system.

Any ideas how one person may be of service in this regard?

there are should nots at any given point in the development of an entity from 1 to end 8th density.

destroying planets with nuclear devices, are one of those should nots.

I propose that one person, or a whole planet of them, may arrive at the conclusion of not destroying themselves with nuclear devices, without invoking any such should-ness, if it exists.

oneness, or unifiedness is not something that can be perceived properly, leave aside practically manifested until 6th density. there is a reason why it is the meaning and nature, and entire lesson of an entire density named 6th - because it is the property, and lesson of THAT density.

the central logos of this galaxy seems to have emphasized it (oneness concept) in its creation. moreover, this particular logos of this solar system also seems to have built on it.

and it is creating all the problems we are experiencing today

See, my mind goes from oneness, to connectedness. Not from oneness, to unifiedness. So, if there is a unified message to be found, it is from the connectedness that naturally follows.

Any ideas how to counteract all these problems?

you shouldnt get behind a certain message. you shouldnt manifest 'oneness' culturally in 3d either - 3d is a density of 'many'es, and there should be many different thoughts and patterns and whatsoever in this environment - not only because it is 3d, but also because there are a lot of souls from a lot of different places. this means a lot of spiritual biases, a lot of patterns.

Redux should-ness. But given our differences, how may we harmonize without sacrificing individuality?

true approach should be, not only allowing but accepting different thoughts, perspectives, patterns, approaches without trying to unify or 'uniformize' them.

"I believe in the One Lord My God, and His Son Jesus Christ, my Savior. I believe God hates homosexuals, and that the Bible commands me to put them to death. I believe that Allah commands me to sacrifice my life, and the lives of others, for the jihad. I believe that veganism is the one true way to eat, even if it kills my baby. I believe there is no higher anything, and I can treat people however I please."

How can we better allow and accept these patterns and approaches to life, so that we may maximize our positive polarity?

---

I didn't comment on this because none of us can know what our percentage is, until we walk the Steps of Light. I haven't seen anyone on this forum focus on guessing percentages. We do discuss how to polarize, and we can certainly wonder about ourselves privately perhaps, but I see no point in guessing about others.

So you agree it is absurd. OK whew!

[Monica]

I believe that veganism is the one true way to eat, even if it kills my baby.

Was that really necessary? I've never heard of any vegans who knowingly endangered their babies. And a well-rounded vegan diet doesn't endanger babies. See Dr. Michael Klaper's book and others on how to have a healthy vegan pregnancy.

(Other than that, I agree with the gist of your statement.)

So you agree it is absurd. OK whew!

Of course. Are you referring to a particular incident? I haven't seen anyone do that here at Bring4th.

[Tenet Nosce]

(Other than that, I agree with the gist of your statement.)

I offered that here.

You said:

So why are you even showing these? What is your point? I could find many more examples of meat eaters who kill their own children, abuse them, etc. Evil people exist whether veg or not. People can become zealots in anything - diet, religion, politics, whatever. So I don't understand what you're getting at here.

Of course. Are you referring to a particular incident? I haven't seen anyone do that here at Bring4th.

I have seen that trend emerge in other forums which discuss the Law of One. It tends to be associated with the "polarity" and "harvestability" concepts. Which is what originally drew me into this thread, entitled More Positive but Less Harvestable.

See: Making the Cut and The Positive, Critical Point on NobleRealms.org

Great quote here!!!!! Way better than my own. :D

A practical way of applying all this is by understanding that we have STS and STO centers within us, and what parts we obey determines what part we express and become more of.

STS: living in service to the baser impulses - listening to ego and attachment
STO: living in service to the nobler impulses - listening to heart and wisdom

Perhaps no act we can do here in 3D can be 100% STO... maybe even giving to someone who asks and is in need is done with a subconscious expectation of reward from providence and thus is a slight bit STS. But that's okay. The "51% STO" threshold sounds correct to me because that is the minimum for any intent/action to have an effect that increases - even if imperceptibly - the total freewill balance of all involved.

Listening to the heart sets your intent towards balance, while acting on wisdom keeps you from creating effects so imbalancing as to overwhelm the original nature of your intent. "Making the cut" has something to do with being "done with" or "tired of" third density while being sufficiently ready to enter an expanded state of being. Rejecting 3D rather than transcending 3D may not be the ticket, as it avoids the very challenges one needs to become ready.

There is a common misperception that "STO" means giving so selflessly that one becomes benign and fluffy as a bag of cotton. Not so, if being weak, cowardly, self-sacrificial towards futile ends, or disrespectful of another's chosen learning path ends up creating greater imbalance.

That is the risk of being part STS -- it puts you in direct contact with other STS, which calls for added discernment to avoid being destroyed before service is maximally fulfilled. Pure STO beings, occupying realms nonphysical, are not in forced contact with predators and are plugged into the infinite Creator energy source, thus they can give completely selflessly without burnout. But should they incarnate into our realm as Wanderers, they become vulnerable in applying compassion without discernment.

The interaction zone between STS and STO, say in the Matrix Control System, may result in some ugly manifestations of balancing. I think movies like the Chronicles of Riddick, V for Vendetta, the Matrix Trilogy, etc... attempt to show that what is necessary for balance isn't always "nice."

Nevertheless, getting up after every stumble to continue acting from the highest and truest part within us, that's about the best we can do, right?

Also
Also on DivineCosmos.com

Diet and Harvestability
Faster is Better?
An Essay for Gradual Harvest

I also think this quote is relevant to the title of this thread:

QUESTION: Is it possible to increase polarization without increasing harvestability?

RA: In the 3rd density an increase in the serving of others or the serving of self will almost inevitably increase the ability of an entity to enjoy a higher intensity of light. Thus it is almost impossible to polarize without increasing harvestability in 3rd density.

[3DMonkey]

The philosophy of Oneness is for Us. It helps us cope after we have murdered by helping self forgive self. It helps bring about compassion toward anything Self deems as an Other, SELF-DEFINED and valid as such! It helps Self attemt to grasp its ability to Co-Create. This is what the philosophy of Oneness is, IMO. You see? The separation and perception of separation that destroys worlds and creates the control/controlled illusion.

IMO, this makes the Law of One ever applicable to the Third Density and ever applicable as a philosophical idea.

[Monica]

I offered that here.

Those people were obviously insane. It had nothing to do with being vegan. The child wasn't malnourished because of being vegan; the child was malnourished because the parents were insane and failed to feed the child properly, and failed to heed the obvious signs of malnutrition. They could have starved the child with any diet. They said it was a religion. The problem is with extreme religion, not the vegan diet. The way it was stated, it seemed to imply that just raising a child vegan, is fanatical and extremist.

To say, "vegan parents starve child" is like saying, "black parents starve child." Their veganism wasn't the issue, just like being black or Asian or whatever, wouldn't have been the issue. Being vegan isn't automatically extremist, anymore than being black is.

[3DMonkey]

the only way 3d entities, which are fresh out of 2d, which sees everything as an extension of self, manifest 'oneness' is through 2d mindset - herd, or seeing everything as an extension of self again. therefore, any thought/belief/emotion that is in the psyche, societal division of any group, seems to be seen as the 'oneness' that should be manifested.

after that, queue repression, queue wars, queue conflicts against other groups which have their own beliefs and approaches.

even if apparently all the populations on the planet get affected by that 'unification' concept, this especially gets to surface in blatant form in the groups which have been effected into religions that promote negativity over that 'oneness'. it is apparently a mechanic that bolsters the problem of manifesting oneness in 3d societies regressing back to 2d. the entities identify belief with themselves, and then attempt to unify everyone in it. and most affected are the societies which were culturally, or genetically effected by yahweh, or distorted by orion. the latter seems to have preferred to work over the framework yahweh created.

I think you are way off.

You are suggesting that a 2D entity that spent lifetimes to achieve 3D is nothing more than an Orange Ray entity with a license to walk among us.

You are saying that the concept of unity is expressed differently in different rays via the rays limited understanding. 1.) This is not the application of unity. 2.) The expressions you present don't even acknowledge a concept of unity, but are representations of a particular energy ray. In other words, a herd doesn't stop to think it is a herd. In other words, a herd doesn't stop to consider what its concept of unity is before proceeding to act.

The philosophical idea of Oneness is nothing of what unity100 describes here. The idea is not our ability to manifest togetherness unified as a yellow ray societal whole. Oneness is a Law of what is created. It has reached our awareness, and it is only to show, or reveal, that, for lack of an elaborate definition, everything is One. As I have already said, this awareness helps us to understand our Self.

[Tenet Nosce]

I added to the last part of my reply , if you didn't notice.

It had nothing to do with being vegan.

Do you know for a fact that is true? So the newspapers, courts, doctors, etc. are all lying? Misinformed, maybe?

Gosh, I don't know we don't seem to be getting anywhere on this particular point. I feel like you know what I am talking about, but for some reason we are not connecting on this.

veganism + zealotry = harm

NOT

veganism = harm

Veganism is still part of the equation. YES... you could of course substitute any number of other things in there because the zealotry part of the equation carries much more weight.

guns + zealotry = harm

religion + zealotry = harm

But this is not true for all things. potatoes + zealotry DO NOT = harm because potatoes do not carry the same potential for harm within them.

Zealotry = An ethical dogma based on an absolutist interpretation of a philosophical principle on conduct.

Therefore, using the Law of One in an attempt to derive a clear-cut approach to ethical decision making = recipe for disaster... just like unity100 is cautioning against in his/her posts.

Those people were obviously insane.

YES! YES! YES! So what can we do to help prevent against an otherwise reasonable idea, like veganism, from being twisted in the mind of an insane person, or zealot? Any ideas?

[3DMonkey]

So what can we do to help prevent against an otherwise reasonable idea, like veganism, from being twisted in the mind of an insane person, or zealot? Any ideas?

We can't change Others. We change our Self. When we interact our Self with Others, energies move.

Regarding the something that we would prevent, there is no positive value to the Other to be prevented. This is a difficult pill to swallow (I seldom do), but it is true. In other words, we do not know until we experience, and it is the experience that leads to the transformation. This is of Self to Self.

[Tenet Nosce]

All must be taken into consideration, together.

That is true.

[BrownEye]

everything is One.

This does not apply to this reality. Many of the concepts that will be brought up in channeling will be almost alien because they simply do not apply in this reality. Once you get past this reality you then have other options.

When it is mentioned that "entities" are going through a period of healing, this is a result of thinking that "anything goes" or "it does not matter".

I have noticed many traps in the transcripts, there for a reason.

Monica will like this one.............It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others

---

Through eating we share in the connectedness of all things.

I see them as incongruent, if eating includes animals. I don't want to resurrect that debate here. I'm just pointing out that, in order for us to agree on even such 'basic' tenets, we'd first have to define the term you used in #1: another. What is another? What is an other-self? Is an animal an other-self?

mmmm, mmmm, anyone wanna try some shish ka Bob, or some fried Fred?

[Tenet Nosce]

The philosophical idea of Oneness is nothing of what unity100 describes here. The idea is not our ability to manifest togetherness unified as a yellow ray societal whole. Oneness is a Law of what is created. It has reached our awareness, and it is only to show, or reveal, that, for lack of an elaborate definition, everything is One. As I have already said, this awareness helps us to understand our Self.

Yes. I don't see why Oneness needs to devolve into sameness. We are the Self revealing unity in ever new and developing ways. I like the idea of connectedness. What other flavors of unity do others enjoy?

We can't change Others.

I know. Isn't this self-evident by now?

[BrownEye]

What other flavors of unity do others enjoy?

How about the unity of you?
Remove all minerals you cease.
Remove all enzymes you cease.
Remove all bacteria you cease.
Remove all water you cease.
Isn't DNA partially virus?
How may separate "beings" make up you?
Do they think they are one?
Does the bacteria think it is made in the image of god?

Every atom (adam) of my body is made in my image.

[Tenet Nosce]

What other flavors of unity do others enjoy?

How about the unity of you?
Remove all minerals you cease.
Remove all enzymes you cease.
Remove all bacteria you cease.
Remove all water you cease.
Isn't DNA partially virus?
How may separate "beings" make up you?
Do they think they are one?
Does the bacteria think it is made in the image of god?

Every atom (adam) of my body is made in my image.

You know, Pickle that is a very interesting view because I do, in many ways, promote that very idea.

It is in fact because of that idea, and specifically the symbiosis between humans and bacteria that live in the gut, that I feel fruit, or fruit juice, can cause harm in people.

For example, some people, due to overuse of antibiotics and too much processed food, have levels of HARMFUL bacteria in their gut that is destroying their health. Scientific research has now linked gut bacteria to asthma, heart disease, diabetes, endocrine disorders, obesity, and depression!

I know of a case where a young lady has been living in a hospital bed for many years, because her infection is so severe and the doctors have no more treatments for her. When we looked in her stool we found MRSA, among other things that are not harmonious with human life.

Did you know that MRSA grows faster in the presence of fruit sugar, than in processed sugar? It is true, if you can believe that! So in this case, because of the interconnectedness of the human body with other forms of life, it just so happens to turn out that juicing would be a really BAD idea for this young lady. At least until the MRSA calms down a bit.

Now in order to "combat" the MRSA, rather than give her an antibiotic that kills most of the MRSA, but leaves the strong ones to repopulate, we add in other organisms whose natural life processes inhibit the growth of the MRSA.

Because the "good" bacteria use fiber in the diet as food, it is important to make sure that this young lady consumes whole foods. Fresh vegetable juice, in limited amounts, is fine. But to attempt a juice fast right now could possibly throw the whole system into further disarray! As far as fruit, limited amounts and try to stick with blueberries. That is based on the best evidence we have.

The truth is, we really don't know. The scientific evidence is just starting to emerge and nobody has had the time to try and piece it all together yet. Who knows what surprises it may hold?

[BrownEye]

The young lady has an immune problem, as a result of long term health issues. When you destroy your body that much even dirt is as dangerous as fruit sugar. Eliminate the immune system and almost anything will kill you, including your own bacteria.

[Tenet Nosce]

The young lady has an immune problem, as a result of long term health issues. When you destroy your body that much even dirt is as dangerous as fruit sugar. Eliminate the immune system and almost anything will kill you, including your own bacteria.

Yeah, that could be true. What would you suggest as a reasonable approach to diet to improve her immune system?

[BrownEye]

A bit like ecosystems we take over. When we kill off the native predators certain animals will overpopulate and things get out of hand. Not much different from the internal environment.

---

The young lady has an immune problem, as a result of long term health issues. When you destroy your body that much even dirt is as dangerous as fruit sugar. Eliminate the immune system and almost anything will kill you, including your own bacteria.

Yeah, that could be true. What would you suggest as a reasonable approach to diet to improve her immune system?

I haven't had to deal with it, so I would not know. Most common form of cleansing internal ailments are grasses and leaf greens. You will see this when dogs eat grass, it is simply to get damaging substances out of their insides. I have not heard of anything that high fiber green intake would not deal with.