Saga of Polarity

[Bring4th_Steve]

I mean, realistically, the Logos is not "THE" Creator ultimately, since the level of Logos only pertains to a single Galactic cluster does it not?

Sorry, caught this question after I posted my previous response.

Yes, from what Ra states, the Creator is Intelligent Infinity, the Logos (God) governs a galaxy, and sub-Logos is the conscious creation of the Logos, which affects the planetary system (in our case, the Sun).

Ra: I am Ra. We go back to previous information. Consider and remember the discussion of the Logos. With the primal distortion of free will, each galaxy developed its own Logos. This Logos has complete free will in determining the paths of intelligent energy which promote the lessons of each of the densities given the conditions of the planetary spheres and the sun bodies.

Ra indicates that sub-sub-Logoi (us) provide our Logos with all unique experiences, and then all Logoi work to provide the fruits of their creations (total experiences of all galaxies within a universe) with experiences that will help the Creator know Itself.

By the way, found an excellent reference to the Octave conversation:

Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation, we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

So it does appear that what was learned from the Octave past is considered towards the next octave forward.

[Unbound]

This is really interesting, so in fact the Creator is the interplay between all things, it IS the movement. Ra states that the previous octave was the polarity of the mover and the moved, it seems those concepts were being developed in the last octave, I wonder what was before that... So in that case is an "Octave" ALSO an entity? This makes me think of the Gnostic concept of the Aeon, which is something billion precessional cycles in "width", or whatever you'd call immensity. From what I can really garner, it seems like absolutely everything is composed of entities, there isn't anything that isn't so. So really, entity in and of itself is the substance of the Creator, infinity is its essence and these things together coagulate into experience.

[111]

Fractal beings. All fragments of infinity. Infinity itself being infinite beings. Beingness being the main distortion of infinite intelligence. The puporse of creation(of these ininite beings) is so that infinite intelligence can experience itself. The coinsiousness compounds, these "beings" or "octaves" as distortions of creator are seperate in experience yet unfied in creators exsistence... hmm

[3DMonkey]

One. Infentity

[Oceania]

I think it's the logos saying "whoa man, this free will stuff is a bigger can of worms that I imagined.". That's all.

fudge yeah

[111]

One. Infentity

BTW. Love the new monkey bro. This new one seems far less inlined to sling poo at me Lol (The old one was lookin at me funny)

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And thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. Its been an interesting read

[Bring4th_Austin]

>> If the Creator knows every little thing there is to know before it is experienced, what's the point of experiencing?

The point is that no two people can have the same exact experience. So the Creator desires to experience these subtle differences, no matter how similar the experience may appear on the surface. For example, if I point your attention to a cloud in the sky, you are going to react to it and experience that moment slightly differently than I am. The Creator wants to experience that. If this were not true, why would we still exist? Surely with 6 billion people on the planet, combined with the fact that populations have thrived for 3000+ years, one might suppose the Creator has experienced it all, right?

That wasn't exactly my point...I was more responding to Azreal's statement of "the Logos must have been aware of the potentials for the STS polarity." The notion that the Logos must have been aware of the potentials for everything, I feel, isn't accurate. If the Creator is aware of the potential for everything, I feel like existence loses its point.

For example, we know from Ra that the veil did not exist at the beginning of this octave, but we know now that it increases the efficiency of spiritual evolution in 3rd density. If the Creator were aware of this potential, why were the "experiments" necessary? Why didn't the veil exist to begin with? I feel like what Ra is saying in the original topic...:

The saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced.

...is basically saying that the potential for STS polarity was not realized until the first entity discovered the ability to harvest to 4D without activating green.

>> but some sneaky STS using the faculty of free will skipped a couple steps and busted the system, creating a whole new aspect of creation.

Your statement is a belief, so it would not be appropriate for me to argue otherwise. No one can prove these beliefs until the veil is gone, but since we are using Ra's work as a baseline, I feel a little more comfortable stating that there is no "sneaking" behind the Creator. The Creator IS the experience of sneaking, just as it is every other experience you can imagine. Nothing can exist that hasn't been derived from the prime vibration of Love. But it is the exact way in which each entity interprets their unique experiences that justifies the statement of the saga consisting of "unimagined" things.

I don't mind at all if anyone holds my statements against the LOO in any fashion, whether it's a belief or not, so please don't feel that it's inappropriate to do so. I completely understand where you're coming from, the Creator IS the experience of sneaking. But what I'm saying is that I think the STS polarity was an "unplanned" part of creation, just like the formation of social memory complexes, the heating of the Earth changing from 3D to 4D, or the warfare we experience in this reality. None were "planned" by the Logos but they're still of the Logos, and now that they're known, they can be "planned" into future experience.

So, the first Logos which experienced an entity harvesting STS then could share that experience with all other Logoi, and they could then create atmospheres more conducive to that kind of learning. I interpret Ra to basically say that here in the next question after the original topic's quote:

77.20 Questioner: In other words you are saying that originally the Logoi that did not choose this free will path did not choose it simply because they had not conceived of it and that later Logoi, extending the first distortion farther down through their evolution, experienced it as an outcropping or growth from that extension of the first distortion. Am I correct in saying that?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

"...they had not conceived of it" means to me that it was not planned until the first distortion was extended enough for an entity to discover it on their own accord. Meaning that the Creator that existed before this octave began couldn't have "known about it," otherwise the Logoi would have "known about it."

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............

Perhaps it would be effective to think of time as an energy and think of "cyclic" as a type of spiral motion? It can be broken down in to infinite smaller spirals within itself. It is fractal, as all things, one of the most fascinating concepts associated with the light.

That's a cool analogy, but I still have trouble piecing it together. "Motion" requires some sort of passage of time, and Ra still included the words "periodically" and "begins again."

[Unbound]

No, rather, I mean the motion IS the time itself.

[Bring4th_Austin]

How does this solve the idea of octaves "beginning," knowledge being unknown at the start and then known at the end, but the Creator being "whole" at both parts?

[3DMonkey]

Haha. Austin, you know it is whole, beginning to end, but you cannot conceive the concept. (adding confusion)

seriously though, there isn't a concrete explanation for what you just said. It's there to meditate on. I can't come up with any way to reveal to you the way I see things, you know?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Whole was the wrong word, but I think you grasp what I mean. According to Ra, at the "end" consciousness coalesces, that's what I mean by whole.


I'm not really that desperate to understand, but I do want to share my understanding that the original quote posted basically means that the first Logos to experience an STS entity did not "plan" for it, that the experience was pioneered, and that is the point of existence.

[Unbound]

The octaves are portional sections of the creator, remember linear time is only a memory. In truth only this singular moment you are experiencing is the embodiment of all time. To say it "began" only means that there is a break in INFORMATION. There is nothing in the universe at the moment that does not stem out of something else whether it be a person, a thing, a thought, an energy or an idea. We can refer to the "beginning" as a point at which the Creator once again meets itself. Remember that the Creator IS energy, the Creator IS time itself and more. The only difference is OUR perception, it is US who can only see in a linear pattern. Time passes for us as quickly as our consciousness can process it, but indeed time is the fact of animation within experience, and only a very limited portion of the infinite Creator. We always have to remember that space/time and time/space are only one type of system that exists in the Infinite Universe.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Are you saying that the Creator we return to in 7D is not actually the Creator but only a portion of the Creator?

Is there any material from Ra to support that, or is it a personal belief?

[3DMonkey]

Whole was the wrong word, but I think you grasp what I mean. According to Ra, at the "end" consciousness coalesces, that's what I mean by whole.


I'm not really that desperate to understand, but I do want to share my understanding that the original quote posted basically means that the first Logos to experience an STS entity did not "plan" for it, that the experience was pioneered, and that is the point of existence.

I thought that's what I was saying, and zenmaster, and azrael...

With the added idea that it's all accomplished within the same 'sphere', No time/ all time, no space/ all space, however it makes more sense to "you"

[Bring4th_Austin]

My original statement:

Service to others was still considered "polarity," although I understand the term isn't accurate without a polar, but Ra still talks about the early STO-only entities having to strive for polarity to reach harvest.

So I think when Ra talked about early Logoi planning the experience of polarity as a catalyst, I think it was only STO. It wasn't until free will was..."free enough'...that the first STS entity was able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity without using green ray that the STS polarity was even thought about.

Was met with disagreement?

That is why I've even been discussing...

[Bring4th_Steve]

But what I'm saying is that I think the STS polarity was an "unplanned" part of creation, just like the formation of social memory complexes, the heating of the Earth changing from 3D to 4D, or the warfare we experience in this reality. None were "planned" by the Logos but they're still of the Logos, and now that they're known, they can be "planned" into future experience.

Ahh, very cool statement. I think I'm finally coming around to appreciate your perspective now. You've drawn a couple of assumptions that seem totally plausible, especially as I go back and re-read some of your earlier posts.

Thanks for clarifying that!

To me, this has the potential to become a very complicated topic because of the esoteric/unprovable nature of this discussion. That is why sometimes I like to step back and remind myself that no matter what my ego thinks, it is entirely possible that "everyone's" view is correct, since we all react uniquely to the circumstances that present to us from moment to moment, which for all intents and purposes, becomes our Truth.

Thanks for working through this one with me!
Steve

[3DMonkey]

I don't know.

Thanks for the opportunity to stretch my mind and express myself

[Unbound]

Are you saying that the Creator we return to in 7D is not actually the Creator but only a portion of the Creator?

Is there any material from Ra to support that, or is it a personal belief?

Ah, no, I am saying that the Creator simultaneously exists in both a unified and infinitely diversified state. If you were to imagine these two states as a mobius strip in which each "side" is its own side but they are tied together in such a way as to make them inseperable. Consider that progress towards the One could be based not on what you experience or how much experience you have, but rather the scope of your perspective in the experience. The Creator IS the IS, it is a continuum, there is no beginning or end, those two points meet. Consider that "everything" is as much a process as it is a thing. So basically what I'm suggesting is that "to return to the Creator" isn't really an end because there is still work to do. It's like going home after work, you reach a resting place where everything is familar, comfortable and revealed, before you once again take the plunge in to new experience. One soul returning to the creator after one octave of experience does not "complete" the Creator. Why? Because if this octave didn't exist the next one couldn't, if the last one didn't exist then this one couldn't. I'm sure the pattern is the same on either side of every octave. So really, the fractional nature is necessary SO THAT the Creator may be One. Because everything is absolutely co-dependent.

So simply, I say that "returning to the Creator" is not the end of the work of your soul, but is instead only a temporary rest which exists infinitely simultaneously with every moment. The Creator is above the creation, the Creator is outside of time, space, thought, emotion, perception and consciousness. It forever exists at the point of nothing and everything, overlapping every point within itself. The "return to the Creator" is only a return to HARMONY WITH the Creator, not in fact a progression towards an outcome. So naturally, it will be inevitable that after becoming in harmony with the Creator you still have yet more work to do!

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Rather, I consider the 7th to be that in which the focus of learning is that of simply BEING.

Ra: I am Ra. There is past, present, and future in third density. In an overview such as an entity may have, removed from the space/time continuum, it may be seen that in the cycle of completion there exists only the present. We, ourselves, seek to learn this understanding. At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

It is stated that Ra will exist IN the all, not that it has become the All or the One but has become one WITH the All. This is simply a point in which the mind is shed and experience is given over to pure beingness. No more thought, or references, or associations are required because there is no longer the CHOICE.

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Also, the fact that there IS an Octave density proves that 7th clearly isn't the end of one's journey.

[Bring4th_Steve]

Awesome, Azrael! That felt really good to read, and very concise!

It then struck me that you now can answer your own thread's question about "unimagined" events being realized by the Creator, versus the Creation.

Steve

[Bring4th_Austin]

I fully agree, Azrael, I definitely wasn't suggesting the end of the octave was the end of our journey, but rather it is still the "end" of something (the octave, obviously). Ra describes it as "consciousness coalescing" back into One, meaning no more separation. Obviously not done, but at that point, no illusion of separation, no experiencing many-ness, and existing as just the Creator.

And obviously, Guardians from the next octave seem to strongly suggest a sort of simultaneity to existence.

I'm just not so easily dismissing the idea of time. Not really because I'm stubbornly holding on to the idea...but from our perspective, the Creator obviously learns. From our perspective, the Creator knows more now than it did at the beginning of this octave, which we measure in time. And so it's hard for me to accept the idea that the Creator realizes all potential instead of just the possibility for infinite potential. And while the Creator isn't done existing at the end of Octaves, it seems to me to be a unified One, still unaware of specific potential.

[111]

ABTF, I think you just touched on something I've heard that really resonates with me.
I believe infinity can be described as simply as: Potential. As long as there is pontential the octaves will never end, and our coinsiosness that we amass will continue experiencing these octaves for all of eternity while ocasionally returning to creator outside of experience. This way the creator can eternally experience the boundless joy of discovering itself (through 'New' experience in infinite potentiallity).

I think its a mistake to label infinite intelligence as a coinsiousness by saying it "knows" or "dosent know" aspects of itself. Or saying it learns or dosent learn. It is infinite pontential.

[Unbound]

Certainly! We know that a Logos is:

Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

Here we have Ra's definition of The Creator as the focusing of infinity. This means that The Creator in fact is only a FUNCTION. Which means that the choices and concepts which derive from the function are not known to the function. It is simply using the light at its disposal, it is not "manufacturing" the light. Perhaps the "local" Logos truly did not know that STS would occur when it started because it started without full consciousness. The Logos determines the paths, but it is like a farmer crafting a irrigating system. They can set all the courses and know what is needed to be done in order to produce the crops but the actual process as it happens is always subject to nature. Just as a teacher cannot force lessons on to a student, but instead only coax them to learn by their own choice.

Consider and remember the discussion of the Logos. With the primal distortion of free will, each galaxy developed its own Logos. This Logos has complete free will in determining the paths of intelligent energy which promote the lessons of each of the densities given the conditions of the planetary spheres and the sun bodies.

Ra: I am Ra. Each step recapitulates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness. In a planetary environment all begins in what you would call chaos, energy undirected and random in its infinity. Slowly, in your terms of understanding, there forms a focus of self-awareness. Thus the Logos moves. Light comes to form the darkness, according to the co-Creator’s patterns and vibratory rhythms, so constructing a certain type of experience. This begins with first density which is the density of consciousness, the mineral and water life upon the planet learning from fire and wind the awareness of being. This is the first density.

First density starts with CONSCIOUSNESS, rather, the development of consciousness, which means that "Logos" is in fact only referring to the focusing of Light. It is the Co-Creators who direct the Logos! When Ra refers to a "Logos" it is not referring to any type of personality, it is referring to an energetic principle of Love, or Creation. A very good question is... who or what was the first co-creator? If Logos is the principle of Creation, that means Logos is in fact only something to be USED.

SO how about we consider STS as a function of Love? Kabbalah has made this incredibly clear for me. The Creator created the Creature (Creation) in its image, meaning its reflection. The Creator is that which bestows, and the Creature is that which Receives. The Creature admired the Creator and wanted to be like it, so it went against its nature and stop receiving and instead focused only on the attribute of bestowal. However, this wasn't what the Creator wanted, the Creature would no longer accept its love, since the Creature felt that it was "better" to be exactly like the Creator. The path of STS is marked most notably by its lack of acceptance, especially of any sort of external force or assistance. Any external assistance received will be justified by one's own sense of authority and power, that the assistance was "commanded".

However, we should not assume this was done out of hatred or negativity, the path to STS came out of a Love for giving of the self and a belief that to be solely a giver and to receive nothing is "better" than the natural harmony between Creator and Creature. Negativity is really just confused positivity! We could almost call it a Logos self-esteem issue.

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Ah, and in reference to what ABTF and 111 just said, perhaps infinity is potential, but intelligent infinity is activated infinity! The Creator is the very process of potential becoming active and then returning, then activating, then potentiating again, etc.

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This we know because "focus" is that which gives direction, which means intelligent infinity is that which developed to direct the principles of motion (mover and moved) that developed in the last octave.

[111]

Thanks Azrael!! I love the way you view these things. You take a concept in my mind and Expand my understandings DRASTICALLY!!

[Unbound]

I also found this good quote:

Questioner: I may be backtracking a little today because I think that possibly we are at the most important part of what we are doing in trying to make it apparent how everything is one, how it comes from one intelligent infinity. This is difficult, so please bear with my errors in questioning.

The concept that I have right now of the process, using both what you have told me and some of Dewey Larson’s material having to do with the physics of the process, is that intelligent infinity expands outward from all locations everywhere. It expands outward uniformly like the surface of a bubble or a balloon expanding outward from every point everywhere. It expands outward at what is called unit velocity or the velocity of light. This is Larson’s idea of the progression of what he calls space/time. Is this concept correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This concept is incorrect as is any concept of the one intelligent infinity. This concept is correct in the context of one particular Logos, or Love, or focus of this Creator which has chosen Its, shall we say, natural laws and ways of expressing them mathematically and otherwise.

The one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole, is the macrocosm of the mystery-clad being. We are messengers of the Law of One. Unity, at this approximation of understanding, cannot be specified by any physics but only become activated or potentiated intelligent infinity due to the catalyst of free will. This may be difficult to accept. However, the understandings we have to share begin and end in mystery.

Makes it pretty clear that our typical mathematic concepts of expansion and growth may only pertain to this particular type of Logos.

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I fully agree, Azrael, I definitely wasn't suggesting the end of the octave was the end of our journey, but rather it is still the "end" of something (the octave, obviously). Ra describes it as "consciousness coalescing" back into One, meaning no more separation. Obviously not done, but at that point, no illusion of separation, no experiencing many-ness, and existing as just the Creator.

And obviously, Guardians from the next octave seem to strongly suggest a sort of simultaneity to existence.

I'm just not so easily dismissing the idea of time. Not really because I'm stubbornly holding on to the idea...but from our perspective, the Creator obviously learns. From our perspective, the Creator knows more now than it did at the beginning of this octave, which we measure in time. And so it's hard for me to accept the idea that the Creator realizes all potential instead of just the possibility for infinite potential. And while the Creator isn't done existing at the end of Octaves, it seems to me to be a unified One, still unaware of specific potential.

Of course the Creator learns, because until YOU, and I and everyone else IS the Creator it will not "complete", however, it of course exists in this state! The only difference is perspective. Consider that the cells of your body are gradually becoming more conscious, learning to function more harmoniously with your thoughts until eventually you have absolute awareness of every single portion of your body. (This is supposed to be one of the experiences related to certain degrees of initiation, and is a technique common to eastern martial arts and yogic practices) If you think of time in terms of progress rather than a "unit" you'll see that "space in time" is actually quite an illusionary concept. At that point, of Unity, all those cells are elevated to the same level of consciousness as the mind itself, becoming "One". Now, consider time to be the process of the cells becoming aware, the person is obviously aware that they have a complete body, which is made of cells however until each cell is individually felt and experienced the system will be felt as disjointed. Time/space is in fact the manifestation of the process of the Creator knowing itself. It's imperative you remove the idea of "quantity" from your mind when considering time.

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Also, keep in mind that once the Creator knows itself, it must do something with what it knows it is.

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Thanks Azrael!! I love the way you view these things. You take a concept in my mind and Expand my understandings DRASTICALLY!!

Aha Blessings, brother, I only do what I can to process my intuition in to comprehendable language to offer a view of things from my own perspective.

[111]

So once the creators knows itself, what it must do with what It knows it is, is to experience itself once again by offering the oppourtunity to All who co create to seek and find ourself again?? Thus Reinstating Potentiation?? Like an Eternal breath or heartbeat??

[Unbound]

Certainly, to be, or not to be?

[Raman]

Infinity....

[Bring4th_Steve]

So once the creators knows itself, what it must do with what It knows it is, is to experience itself once again by offering the oppourtunity to All who co create to seek and find ourself again?? Thus Reinstating Potentiation?? Like an Eternal breath or heartbeat??

Right, but the most important part of the Creator's new breath is that it is a breath which contains all that was experienced from the previous breath. So no two "breaths" can ever be the same, as one breath contains a set of experiences, and the next breath is based upon what was learned from before.

[unity100]

First density starts with CONSCIOUSNESS, rather, the development of consciousness, which means that "Logos" is in fact only referring to the focusing of Light.

consciousness is something that is there before densities or creation apparently. for, the very concept 'creator' coming into being, is a result of that, or, a feature of that.

'infinity became aware' is the first thing to happen. all the rest, including the creator, comes after.

[Bring4th_Austin]

But what I'm saying is that I think the STS polarity was an "unplanned" part of creation, just like the formation of social memory complexes, the heating of the Earth changing from 3D to 4D, or the warfare we experience in this reality. None were "planned" by the Logos but they're still of the Logos, and now that they're known, they can be "planned" into future experience.

Ahh, very cool statement. I think I'm finally coming around to appreciate your perspective now. You've drawn a couple of assumptions that seem totally plausible, especially as I go back and re-read some of your earlier posts.

Hey Steve, for the purpose of refining my point of view, would you mind briefly pointing out what information I have provided which you perceive as assumptions vs. which information is taken from the Law of One?

I would like to examine these, hold them up to the LOO, and perhaps if possible provide reference from the Ra material for the basis of my perspective.

If you don't mind of course