Now THIS is REALLY INTERESTING!!

[unity100]

the participation would probably be related to the size of dynamics they need to correct. so it would probably depend on the distortions the memory complex caused.

[Etude in B Minor]

Note that they said "A significant portion of sixth-density Wanderers are those of our social memory complex." This means that there could me many others (from 4th and 5th) that are not from Ra.

[Raman]

I wish Ra would quantify terms like this use of "significant portion." What do they consider significant? 30%? 10%? 5%? If there's a large variety of wanderers from everywhere, and most Social Memory Complexes don't make up more than .5%, significant portion could mean 3%.

I'm guessing, since Ra named 3 groups, the number is around 30%, maybe...

Circa 1980's there were about 65 million wanderers mostly 6d. You can make your own conclusions. Few of 4d. Now many more (many) of 4d in the form of dual activated.

12.27 Questioner: How many of them are incarnate on Earth now?

Ra: I am Ra. The number is approximate due to an heavy influx of those birthed at this time due to an intensive need to lighten the planetary vibration and thus aid in harvest. The number approaches sixty-five million.

I mean 10% of 60 million is 6 million, for example.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Circa 1980's there were about 65 million wanderers mostly 6d. You can make your own conclusions.

It's my choice not to "make my own conclusions" on what Ra might consider a "significant amount." From different perspectives, a significant amount could be half, or could be 5%. It's just a curiosity anyways.

Few of 4d. Now many more (many) of 4d in the form of dual activated.

4D Wanderers and dual-activated beings are not the same. 4D Wanderers incarnate down from 4D into 3D, dual activated entities incarnate into 4D environments being penetrated by disappearing 3D vibrations. They are just starting their 4D incarnations, the wanderers are rightly already established 4D. Of course it's all semantics (I won't tell you what to consider wanderers), but Ra and Don specifically discussed the difference between wanderers and dual activated beings.

[Raman]

Ra did not give numbers in this case on purpose...However, this close to Great Harvest I wonder what the answer would be..since many of those...maybe forgot their mission. Same with answer to other questions.

12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? Or what density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Of significance to what you just said, thought it was an interesting fact.

36.24 Questioner: I’ll just ask one short one before we close. Can you tell me what percentage of the Wanderers on Earth today have been successful in penetrating the memory block and have become aware of who they are, and finally, is there anything that we can do to make the instrument more comfortable or to improve the contact?
Ra: I am Ra. We can approximate the percentage of those penetrating intelligently their status. This is between eight and one-half and nine and three-quarters percent. There is a larger percentile group of those who have a fairly well defined, shall we say, symptomology indicating to them that they are not of this, shall we say, “insanity.” This amounts to a bit over fifty percent of the remainder. Nearly one-third of the remainder are aware that something about them is different, so you see there are many gradations of awakening to the knowledge of being a Wanderer. We may add that it is to the middle and first of these groups that this information will, shall we say, make sense.

Of course this was during the contact.

[native]

everything, even the gratitude of the buyer would probably be in the dominance of the orange ray to yellow ray.

Hardly so, I believe. It seems you view this whole process from a negative light, as in it's not possible to adequately be free from lower energies, but I think it is highly dependent on various factors. As 3DM points out much of it is dependent on the receiver and their ability to process the energies at play. Two people can attend a conference and be led in two very different directions. How is it that one can be misled/distorted and another can't? The information is the same, so our ability to process the situation through our distortions and blockages can be completely independent of the speaker.

However, the slippery aspect of this is that many do have distortions that prevent them from understanding the information clearly, and as you have said many spiritual teachers are victims of this themselves. They are caught up in their own lower energies which pollutes the whole process. But all of this isn't a money issue at all, it is a more complex orange/yellow energy issue involving the teach/learning process that can be influenced by money.

So what about those that are free from lower energies? Again, I still stand by intention as being the significant factor. If you are operating and perceiving from higher rays, that is where the transfer takes place if both have the corresponding centers activated. Throw in the money factor, and you simply taint it. Information can't come under the dominance of lower energies if that's not how you perceive it.

How we view the interaction taking place of the one charging for something is a complex interplay between both involved. It simply isn't an issue of higher energies being under the influence of the lower.

Have you ever noticed that the more a teacher communicates their intentions and understandings with clarity the obvious result is less distortion? Simply paying to attend a seminar doesn't undermine the strength and brilliance of the love and wisdom being sent out if you clearly dissolve the nature of the lower energies at play as best as possible.

It would seem the issue lies more in aligning yourself properly as a teach/learner.

[unity100]

4D Wanderers and dual-activated beings are not the same. 4D Wanderers incarnate down from 4D into 3D, dual activated entities incarnate into 4D environments being penetrated by disappearing 3D vibrations. They are just starting their 4D incarnations, the wanderers are rightly already established 4D. Of course it's all semantics (I won't tell you what to consider wanderers), but Ra and Don specifically discussed the difference between wanderers and dual activated beings.

i dont understand what does 'semantics' even mean here.

there is indeed difference in between a 4d wanderer and a harvested 4d entity that is to make its home here. one has wanderer status, one is wanderer-like.

and depending on the situation, it is possible that the 4d wanderer incarnated into a 3d body some time ago, whereas the 4d native has incarnated into a 3-4d body recently. that is a lot of difference, if so.

Hardly so, I believe. It seems you view this whole process from a negative light, as in it's not possible to adequately be free from lower energies, but I think it is highly dependent on various factors. As 3DM points out much of it is dependent on the receiver and their ability to process the energies at play. Two people can attend a conference and be led in two very different directions. How is it that one can be misled/distorted and another can't? The information is the same, so our ability to process the situation through our distortions and blockages can be completely independent of the speaker.

However, the slippery aspect of this is that many do have distortions that prevent them from understanding the information clearly, and as you have said many spiritual teachers are victims of this themselves. They are caught up in their own lower energies which pollutes the whole process. But all of this isn't a money issue at all, it is a more complex orange/yellow energy issue involving the teach/learning process that can be influenced by money.

So what about those that are free from lower energies? Again, I still stand by intention as being the significant factor. If you are operating and perceiving from higher rays, that is where the transfer takes place if both have the corresponding centers activated. Throw in the money factor, and you simply taint it. Information can't come under the dominance of lower energies if that's not how you perceive it.

How we view the interaction taking place of the one charging for something is a complex interplay between both involved. It simply isn't an issue of higher energies being under the influence of the lower.

Have you ever noticed that the more a teacher communicates their intentions and understandings with clarity the obvious result is less distortion? Simply paying to attend a seminar doesn't undermine the strength and brilliance of the love and wisdom being sent out if you clearly dissolve the nature of the lower energies at play as best as possible.

It would seem the issue lies more in aligning yourself properly as a teach/learner.

icaro, i would elaborate on all of the above points you made, only if the 'it may be possible to be adequately free from lower energies' (when seen in a negative light) was true.

all your propositions revolve around this. yet, there is no example on the known history of the planet of this. all teachings and attempts were distorted. even the ones which were totally contrary to the orange monetary system - they were distorted to orange ownership/identification systems in other ways.

going beyond that, even the history that we are privy to through Ra material, doesnt have such examples - even efforts undertaken by purest of intentions by various social memory complexes of late d were distorted to orange in numerous ways, leading to mass incarnation by these entities to alleviate distortions.

the only examples which may be given as to being 'adequately free' from orange patterns are people like diogenes and similar, who lived in hilltops half naked in barrels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope

............

[Bring4th_Austin]

4D Wanderers and dual-activated beings are not the same. 4D Wanderers incarnate down from 4D into 3D, dual activated entities incarnate into 4D environments being penetrated by disappearing 3D vibrations. They are just starting their 4D incarnations, the wanderers are rightly already established 4D. Of course it's all semantics (I won't tell you what to consider wanderers), but Ra and Don specifically discussed the difference between wanderers and dual activated beings.

i dont understand what does 'semantics' even mean here.

Simply, if he chooses to define dual-activated beings as Wanderers for whatever reason, he may (the definition of semantics being difference of definition/meaning). Obviously, you, I, and Ra make a distinction in definition and choose not to call them Wanderers. I guess I'm just trying to "protect free will," since there's so much about impressing beliefs on people going on around here...

[unity100]

4D Wanderers and dual-activated beings are not the same. 4D Wanderers incarnate down from 4D into 3D, dual activated entities incarnate into 4D environments being penetrated by disappearing 3D vibrations. They are just starting their 4D incarnations, the wanderers are rightly already established 4D. Of course it's all semantics (I won't tell you what to consider wanderers), but Ra and Don specifically discussed the difference between wanderers and dual activated beings.

i dont understand what does 'semantics' even mean here.

Simply, if he chooses to define dual-activated beings as Wanderers for whatever reason, he may (the definition of semantics being difference of definition/meaning). Obviously, you, I, and Ra make a distinction in definition and choose not to call them Wanderers. I guess I'm just trying to "protect free will," since there's so much about impressing beliefs on people going on around here...

i think 'facilitating free will' through confusion and obscurity has been a failure on this planet in regard to its grand plan. i dont think that we should perpetuate it further consciously and willingly.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Yeah, I completely understand, but I grow weary of responses like "the Ra material is being treated like a bible" or "you have to let people believe what they want" or claiming this isn't an open environment for conversation. I'm trying to be preemptive though I'm not sure what kind of effect it will have.

[zenmaster]

i think 'facilitating free will' through confusion and obscurity has been a failure on this planet in regard to its grand plan. i dont think that we should perpetuate it further consciously and willingly.

When it's the group or individual that offers confusion and obscurity, I'd agree - that's the Orion's attempt at subjugation, for example.

However, when a person is merely confused or sees obscurity in the info - there is nothing to be done, unless there is a request for clarification.

---

Yeah, I completely understand, but I grow weary of responses like "the Ra material is being treated like a bible" or "you have to let people believe what they want" or claiming this isn't an open environment for conversation. I'm trying to be preemptive though I'm not sure what kind of effect it will have.

This situation is absolutely no different than any other internet forum. Perhaps there could be a simply agreement, at least on some sub-forums here, where people must be willing to back-up or clarify claims? After all, that's how we learn - by sharing how we came to know something to be so. Not by throwing around vague-intuitive-notion grenades then running away. Could you imagine if the Ra Material was transmitted in that fashion? They'd call it the Fanatical Flake Material.

[native]

the only examples which may be given as to being 'adequately free' from orange patterns are people like diogenes and similar, who lived in hilltops half naked in barrels.

lol..

Ok well, that's fine. I still disagree. It would be a good assumption to say the working factor here is the veil though. It seems to heavily distort the ability to analyze, and so the energies get improper consideration and have difficultly correctly seeping into the unconscious.

There are those however that have penetrated the veil in certain respects, like you and I, who are able to not be as affected by the lower energies. I'm not sure that I would conclude our Earth's history to be an indicator opposing what I say, and supportive of your position. There have been valiant efforts and individuals in the past, but the collective hindered the process. On Venus it was a harmonious place courtesy of a weaker veil.

[zenmaster]

I don't place that much emphasis on money (or any exchange, such as bartering) as a hinderance to postive spiritual progress, as some may. But I agree it would be nice to be rid of the system, and live in Shangri-La, if possible. When there is mutual trust, I just see it as an agreement, not as a control or subjugation system. The value in exchange shall be evident to those participating, regardless of conventions used. There is nothing hidden.

[Raman]

Yeah, I completely understand, but I grow weary of responses like "the Ra material is being treated like a bible" or "you have to let people believe what they want" or claiming this isn't an open environment for conversation. I'm trying to be preemptive though I'm not sure what kind of effect it will have.

You just did. But in any case, I was referring a wanderer as non-native to 3d exclusively. Even elder race is a type of wanderer. Some left the plane some did not. Is not even semantics. Did not know I have "sinned".

---

i think 'facilitating free will' through confusion and obscurity has been a failure on this planet in regard to its grand plan. i dont think that we should perpetuate it further consciously and willingly.

When it's the group or individual that offers confusion and obscurity, I'd agree - that's the Orion's attempt at subjugation, for example.

However, when a person is merely confused or sees obscurity in the info - there is nothing to be done, unless there is a request for clarification.

---

Yeah, I completely understand, but I grow weary of responses like "the Ra material is being treated like a bible" or "you have to let people believe what they want" or claiming this isn't an open environment for conversation. I'm trying to be preemptive though I'm not sure what kind of effect it will have.

This situation is absolutely no different than any other internet forum. Perhaps there could be a simply agreement, at least on some sub-forums here, where people must be willing to back-up or clarify claims? After all, that's how we learn - by sharing how we came to know something to be so. Not by throwing around vague-intuitive-notion grenades then running away. Could you imagine if the Ra Material was transmitted in that fashion? They'd call it the Fanatical Flake Material.

Some of you sometimes crack me up.

---

I don't place that much emphasis on money (or any exchange, such as bartering) as a hinderance to postive spiritual progress, as some may. But I agree it would be nice to be rid of the system, and live in Shangri-La, if possible. When there is mutual trust, I just see it as an agreement, not as a control or subjugation system. The value in exchange shall be evident to those participating, regardless of conventions used. There is nothing hidden.

Well it seems that is the only solution at this point: Shangri-La

[zenmaster]

Some of you sometimes crack me up.

Glad to be of service at this time, providing catalyst for your orange-ray vibration needs.

[Raman]

Some of the 4d "wanderers" are not in physical planes but in astral plane ready to be incarnated...ok then I put "wanderers" in quotes...

---

Some of you sometimes crack me up.

Glad to be of service at this time, providing catalyst for your orange-ray vibration needs.

Oh c'mon you just wanted to say that...Ok I will let you.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Yeah, I completely understand, but I grow weary of responses like "the Ra material is being treated like a bible" or "you have to let people believe what they want" or claiming this isn't an open environment for conversation. I'm trying to be preemptive though I'm not sure what kind of effect it will have.

You just did. But in any case, I was referring a wanderer as non-native to 3d exclusively. Even elder race is a type of wanderer. Some left the plane some did not. Is not even semantics. Did not know I have "sinned".

The fact that you say "I was referring to" and then provide your own personal definition of Wanderer is actually a 100% clear-cut example of semantics. And it's exactly what I was saying when I said "Of course it's all semantics (I won't tell you what to consider wanderers), but Ra and Don specifically discussed the difference between wanderers and dual activated beings."

I see my preemptive measures had little effect though

[BlatzAdict]

always with refining that orange. yea. speaking of oranges. raman your name makes me hungry.. because we have a crap ton of ramen. your name makes me think of noodles.

me: hello mr noodle how are you?
mr noodle: why good and you?
quite good quite good, I even have my best hair on.
mr. noodle: quite, I'd say that was good use of your orange ray there.
Ra. I am Ra. I am in accordance with the noodle. Rejoice in the love of the Soup.
mr. noodle: hot springs city, aww yea.
me: slurp.

---

sorry if that was corny.. I'm only copying Ocean

[3DMonkey]

Everyone is aware that Ra had semantic difficulty within the material itself, right?

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

[Raman]

Yes dual activated are 4d harvested entities. Harvested. Already harvested. If I explicitly have to specify "oh but Ra said in question so and so"...but then you refer to that question and then anything away from the answer is semantics...oh well. Fine. But I was referring to a general idea. And I could find another entry on which Ra says that 4d "wanderers" are waiting not in the physical plane..still they are called wanderers by Ra since they were still in the earth plane.

But the thing is not this. This is not important...The important thing is what followed. Disregarding the main reason for the post just for a statement that was not crucial to the post since the general idea was clear. Then, zenmaster accusing (me, I guess) of "running away", then blah blah blah. So the whole heart of the post is lost precisely on what the "accuser" is accusing of: semantics..

Well I would say that the post is lost precisely to semantics. And obviously, failing to take the effort to use green/blue. Sohumm, maybe I did not recognize a possible mistake, but the whole "heart of the matter" has...no heart.

Does not surprise me why vbaba left.

[BlatzAdict]

i pray that vbaba will be able to face his or her own demons and come back.. stronger.. and more protected emotionally

---

especially from those she or he might percieve as being threatening or accusatory

[Raman]

always with refining that orange. yea. speaking of oranges. raman your name makes me hungry.. because we have a crap ton of ramen. your name makes me think of noodles.

me: hello mr noodle how are you?
mr noodle: why good and you?
quite good quite good, I even have my best hair on.
mr. noodle: quite, I'd say that was good use of your orange ray there.
Ra. I am Ra. I am in accordance with the noodle. Rejoice in the love of the Soup.
mr. noodle: hot springs city, aww yea.
me: slurp.

---

sorry if that was corny.. I'm only copying Ocean

It seems I am not well liked here.

---

i pray that vbaba will be able to face his or her own demons and come back.. stronger.. and more protected emotionally

---

especially from those she or he might percieve as being threatening or accusatory

Then stop attacking people.

[zenmaster]

Then, zenmaster accusing (me, I guess) of "running away"

Ah no...But there may be some nice catalyst there for you to digest sometime.

Does not surprise me why vbaba left.

Not surprisingly, there is no surprise in wanting to feel justified. Reinforces that sense of righteousness and victimization at the same time.

[Raman]

Then, zenmaster accusing (me, I guess) of "running away"

Ah no...But there may be some nice catalyst there for you to digest sometime.

Does not surprise me why vbaba left.

Not surprisingly, there is no surprise in wanting to feel justified. Reinforces that sense of righteousness and victimization at the same time.

No thank you. you did that again. so is Oh yes.

But i do not care.

[BlatzAdict]

always with refining that orange. yea. speaking of oranges. raman your name makes me hungry.. because we have a crap ton of ramen. your name makes me think of noodles.

me: hello mr noodle how are you?
mr noodle: why good and you?
quite good quite good, I even have my best hair on.
mr. noodle: quite, I'd say that was good use of your orange ray there.
Ra. I am Ra. I am in accordance with the noodle. Rejoice in the love of the Soup.
mr. noodle: hot springs city, aww yea.
me: slurp.

---

sorry if that was corny.. I'm only copying Ocean

It seems I am not well liked here.

---

i pray that vbaba will be able to face his or her own demons and come back.. stronger.. and more protected emotionally

---

especially from those she or he might percieve as being threatening or accusatory

Then stop attacking people.

why do you assume i wrote this with the intention of attacking you? I honestly wrote this with the intention of acknowledging u. If this is how you choose to view it perhaps you have some issues that you are still working through I hope u can work through them sucessfully.

[Raman]

always with refining that orange. yea. speaking of oranges. raman your name makes me hungry.. because we have a crap ton of ramen. your name makes me think of noodles.

me: hello mr noodle how are you?
mr noodle: why good and you?
quite good quite good, I even have my best hair on.
mr. noodle: quite, I'd say that was good use of your orange ray there.
Ra. I am Ra. I am in accordance with the noodle. Rejoice in the love of the Soup.
mr. noodle: hot springs city, aww yea.
me: slurp.

---

sorry if that was corny.. I'm only copying Ocean

It seems I am not well liked here.

---

i pray that vbaba will be able to face his or her own demons and come back.. stronger.. and more protected emotionally

---

especially from those she or he might percieve as being threatening or accusatory

Then stop attacking people.

why do you assume i wrote this with the intention of attacking you? I honestly wrote this with the intention of acknowledging u. If this is how you choose to view it perhaps you have some issues that you are still working through I hope u can work through them sucessfully.

maybe you did not jump in the right moment, then, perhaps? Maybe?

[3DMonkey]

Raman, I intially placed myself as the Flaky referenced by Zenmaster. I did, LOL, but I had to really process it before I could remove myself from where I had consciously placed myself. You may be doing the same. Who knows what or who he had in mind while writing that? But I still initially took it to be me, and it wasn't his fault that I did that. Whatever way I justified it, I removed my perception that it was me. My bias. My distortion.

(btw, I always think of ramen too. Not to be insulting)

[zenmaster]

Identification and projection. We are always slaves to our unconscious misunderstandings - whether we think we care or not.

[Bring4th_Austin]

But the thing is not this. This is not important...The important thing is what followed. Disregarding the main reason for the post just for a statement that was not crucial to the post since the general idea was clear. Then, zenmaster accusing (me, I guess) of "running away", then blah blah blah. So the whole heart of the post is lost precisely on what the "accuser" is accusing of: semantics..

The reason I even responded in the fashion was because I want people to be aware of Ra's own definitions and clarifications on certain matters, such as the very clear conversation between them and Don about the difference between Wanderers and dual-activated entities. There are implications in that matter reaching further than the initial perceived difference, such as permeation of the veil, affecting the free will of others incarnate, etc etc. There's a good reason Don and Ra discussed the differences, and that reason is the same exact reason I pointed it out to begin with.

I added my "preemptive measures" because I was afraid that you would view this as a specific attack, and we would descend into a discussion simply based on differences of definition (aka semantics), and someone adopting the role of a victim.

I hope you can view the humor in the irony of the fact that the exact thing I tried to prevent with my words is what happened because of my words.