3D to 4D: Sudden or Gradual? A great read...(David Wilcock interview)

[zenmaster]

the deal is, to each dimension, there is a time/space counterpart. remember how Ra has not left the 5d time/space of this planet since they came from venus.

so basically, there would be time/space counterparts of these structures, vibrating in yellow spectrum, and still being present in time/space.

the question is, whether these time/space constructs will stay or go away.

The presumption is that they will go away. That is, the 'instreaming energy' that is of the yellow spectrum, will no longer be supplied.

This supply is what is sustaining or 'refreshing' these 'inner-plane' constructs. There is the time/space imprinting, which carries a localized (space/time) attachment to things. Ra would call that a 'vestment' of yellow-ray.
There is the the time/space thought form and feeling (i.e. collective-consciousness or personal construct or pattern of the mind nature). But those 3D things are not an 'intrinsic property' to the purely physical level. We 'clean' various crystals of just these imprints, using the sun or moon, for example.

[Raman]

I think we're trying to make sense of Ra's somewhat confusing statements about the transition from third density to fourth. If the transition is going to be gradual, how can it be that third density artifacts will go into potentiation? Will all our buildings, roads, etc. just suddenly disappear? That seems to me to be what Ra is saying, but how does it square with a gradual transition? And yet, Ra clearly says there will be a gradual evolution to fourth-density bodies.

That's what I thought.

There isn't a need to make the two the same. Third density will, at some point, not be activated. The gradual transition will be fully expressed before this happens.

I think the attempt to make Ra's information fit with our preconceived notions of an immediate zap into 4D brought about by 2012 and the like is what is clouding all this.

2012 is one event. Harvest is another event. 3D potentiation is another event. 4D activation is another event.

Everything in our existence that we are currently aware of is beautifully orchestrated. This won't stop.

Those are preconceived notions/ideas as well. I am asked to provide preconceived notions to see were my ideas are "generated"...I say keep an open mind just because of this. I try not to rely on "regular common sense" just on what Ra states. I provide a Ra quote to try to see what is going to happen with the so called artifacts.

This is very important. There seems to be a quantum shift form density to density but from 3rd to 4th (due to incompatibility) 3rd becasue potentiated (not active) at least for a while.

Pole shift appears to have been averted. But, it seems that because of the notion of the Great Harvest, all this is a new ball of wax...

On a previous thread (?) it was discussed that dual entities would survive and continue the gradual shift to full 4d. However this current talk applies to 3d's destiny.

How can dual entities and even 2d can survive? What is the mechanism for this according to Ra's answer? For example.


Obviously, to answer those questions all of us bring pre-conceived ideas...not just me...

[unity100]

Pole shift appears to have been averted. But, it seems that because of the notion of the Great Harvest, all this is a new ball of wax...

there is no such definitive information. all that we know what various spiritual literature sources say. most of them, dubious and questionable. and what quo says. it is also quite questionable since it is conscious channeling.

[Raman]

Pole shift appears to have been averted. But, it seems that because of the notion of the Great Harvest, all this is a new ball of wax...

there is no such definitive information. all that we know what various spiritual literature sources say. most of them, dubious and questionable. and what quo says. it is also quite questionable since it is conscious channeling.

Well, it seems that you then discovered a "preconceived notion" of mine...

But then, if 3d is destroyed because of pole shift...(lets say) then 2d is as well (or most of it, especially animals)...

[3DMonkey]

I think we're trying to make sense of Ra's somewhat confusing statements about the transition from third density to fourth. If the transition is going to be gradual, how can it be that third density artifacts will go into potentiation? Will all our buildings, roads, etc. just suddenly disappear? That seems to me to be what Ra is saying, but how does it square with a gradual transition? And yet, Ra clearly says there will be a gradual evolution to fourth-density bodies.

That's what I thought.

There isn't a need to make the two the same. Third density will, at some point, not be activated. The gradual transition will be fully expressed before this happens.

I think the attempt to make Ra's information fit with our preconceived notions of an immediate zap into 4D brought about by 2012 and the like is what is clouding all this.

2012 is one event. Harvest is another event. 3D potentiation is another event. 4D activation is another event.

Everything in our existence that we are currently aware of is beautifully orchestrated. This won't stop.

Those are preconceived notions/ideas as well. I am asked to provide preconceived notions to see were my ideas are "generated"...I say keep an open mind just because of this. I try not to rely on "regular common sense" just on what Ra states. I provide a Ra quote to try to see what is going to happen with the so called artifacts.

This is very important. There seems to be a quantum shift form density to density but from 3rd to 4th (due to incompatibility) 3rd becasue potentiated (not active) at least for a while.

Pole shift appears to have been averted. But, it seems that because of the notion of the Great Harvest, all this is a new ball of wax...

On a previous thread (?) it was discussed that dual entities would survive and continue the gradual shift to full 4d. However this current talk applies to 3d's destiny.

How can dual entities and even 2d can survive? What is the mechanism for this according to Ra's answer? For example.


Obviously, to answer those questions all of us bring pre-conceived ideas...not just me...

The Earth is in Fourth Density now. The "incompatibility discussion" is about something that isn't. We are in fourth. We have bodies here now with both 3D and 4D activated. The "if" of incompatibility is a non factor. "If I had a third leg, then I would have three legs."

[zenmaster]

2012 is one event. Harvest is another event. 3D potentiation is another event. 4D activation is another event.

'2012' is both an astronomical and an astrological (archetypal) device from the Mayans. The principles may have been provided from the 6D group's teachings (like Ra and the Tarot). Their end date coincides with harvest time.

Harvest happens individually, after death of the chemical body.

3D potentiation is gradual, as instreaming of yellow ray ceases.

4D activation (to completion) is gradual, as core particles of that level are formed.

More and more will be born dual-activated, and more and more will be able to appreciate the 4D vibration. That is they will remember things more naturally from past lives, be more 'psychic'. Eventually, people will start recognizing these individuals, as 'a new breed', as their (4D) abilities and character will stand out.

Although there are only few locals capable of being harvested, many are coming from elsewhere. So we have the continuity of soul migration to the newly born.

What is interesting is that those from elsewhere were probably from a place that had a net negative harvest.

[3DMonkey]

Nobody is getting a third leg, but IF they did...

[Raman]

I think we're trying to make sense of Ra's somewhat confusing statements about the transition from third density to fourth. If the transition is going to be gradual, how can it be that third density artifacts will go into potentiation? Will all our buildings, roads, etc. just suddenly disappear? That seems to me to be what Ra is saying, but how does it square with a gradual transition? And yet, Ra clearly says there will be a gradual evolution to fourth-density bodies.

That's what I thought.

There isn't a need to make the two the same. Third density will, at some point, not be activated. The gradual transition will be fully expressed before this happens.

I think the attempt to make Ra's information fit with our preconceived notions of an immediate zap into 4D brought about by 2012 and the like is what is clouding all this.

2012 is one event. Harvest is another event. 3D potentiation is another event. 4D activation is another event.

Everything in our existence that we are currently aware of is beautifully orchestrated. This won't stop.

Those are preconceived notions/ideas as well. I am asked to provide preconceived notions to see were my ideas are "generated"...I say keep an open mind just because of this. I try not to rely on "regular common sense" just on what Ra states. I provide a Ra quote to try to see what is going to happen with the so called artifacts.

This is very important. There seems to be a quantum shift form density to density but from 3rd to 4th (due to incompatibility) 3rd becasue potentiated (not active) at least for a while.

Pole shift appears to have been averted. But, it seems that because of the notion of the Great Harvest, all this is a new ball of wax...

On a previous thread (?) it was discussed that dual entities would survive and continue the gradual shift to full 4d. However this current talk applies to 3d's destiny.

How can dual entities and even 2d can survive? What is the mechanism for this according to Ra's answer? For example.


Obviously, to answer those questions all of us bring pre-conceived ideas...not just me...

The Earth is in Fourth Density now. The "incompatibility discussion" is about something that isn't. We are in fourth. We have bodies here now with both 3D and 4D activated. The "if" of incompatibility is a non factor. "If I had a third leg, then I would have three legs."

Is not fully activated though.

[3DMonkey]

2012 is one event. Harvest is another event. 3D potentiation is another event. 4D activation is another event.

'2012' is both an astronomical and an astrological (archetypal) device from the Mayans. The principles may have been provided from the 6D group's teachings (like Ra and the Tarot). Their end date coincides with harvest time.

Harvest happens individually, after death of the chemical body.

3D potentiation is gradual, as instreaming of yellow ray ceases.

4D activation (to completion) is gradual, as core particles of that level are formed.

More and more will be born dual-activated, and more and more will be able to appreciate the 4D vibration. That is they will remember things more naturally from past lives, be more 'psychic'. Eventually, people will start recognizing these individuals, as 'a new breed', as their (4D) abilities and character will stand out.

Although there are only few locals capable of being harvested, many are coming from elsewhere. So we have the continuity of soul migration to the newly born.

What is interesting is that those from elsewhere were probably from a place that had a net negative harvest.

That is exactly what I meant. I didn't want to step on any toes. (LOL, can you believe that?). Even if someone doesn't agree with each of the points you articulated finely, I would ask that they view each one as a separate issue before meshing them together.

[Raman]

Man, I could not find any "preconceived" notions on that one...Good job!

[3DMonkey]

I think we're trying to make sense of Ra's somewhat confusing statements about the transition from third density to fourth. If the transition is going to be gradual, how can it be that third density artifacts will go into potentiation? Will all our buildings, roads, etc. just suddenly disappear? That seems to me to be what Ra is saying, but how does it square with a gradual transition? And yet, Ra clearly says there will be a gradual evolution to fourth-density bodies.

That's what I thought.

There isn't a need to make the two the same. Third density will, at some point, not be activated. The gradual transition will be fully expressed before this happens.

I think the attempt to make Ra's information fit with our preconceived notions of an immediate zap into 4D brought about by 2012 and the like is what is clouding all this.

2012 is one event. Harvest is another event. 3D potentiation is another event. 4D activation is another event.

Everything in our existence that we are currently aware of is beautifully orchestrated. This won't stop.

Those are preconceived notions/ideas as well. I am asked to provide preconceived notions to see were my ideas are "generated"...I say keep an open mind just because of this. I try not to rely on "regular common sense" just on what Ra states. I provide a Ra quote to try to see what is going to happen with the so called artifacts.

This is very important. There seems to be a quantum shift form density to density but from 3rd to 4th (due to incompatibility) 3rd becasue potentiated (not active) at least for a while.

Pole shift appears to have been averted. But, it seems that because of the notion of the Great Harvest, all this is a new ball of wax...

On a previous thread (?) it was discussed that dual entities would survive and continue the gradual shift to full 4d. However this current talk applies to 3d's destiny.

How can dual entities and even 2d can survive? What is the mechanism for this according to Ra's answer? For example.


Obviously, to answer those questions all of us bring pre-conceived ideas...not just me...

The Earth is in Fourth Density now. The "incompatibility discussion" is about something that isn't. We are in fourth. We have bodies here now with both 3D and 4D activated. The "if" of incompatibility is a non factor. "If I had a third leg, then I would have three legs."

Is not fully activated though.

Right! And it won't be activated at the expense of all that is. Placing yellow ray into potentiation is like injecting a drug into the body. A slow drip of an IV is the proper method, and forcing it all into the system at once is detrimental.

It is what we are seeing it to be now.

---

Man, I could not find any "preconceived" notions on that one...Good job!

Okay. Haha.

Yes, I am reading the Ra material and created notions. The preconceived notions come from material not from Ra. I am not suggesting it is wrong to have preconceived notions. We all do, and it is how we co-create, etc.

If we are discussing Ra material, then we should come at it without preconceived notions. If we are discussing personal perspective, then all notions are on the table.

I prefer discussion of strictly Ra. I certainly have many notions we could discuss though.

[Raman]

I prefer discussion of strictly Ra. I certainly have many notions we could discuss though.

We agree on this. That is what I was trying to discuss with that quote. No need to try to put people down if other possibilities do not agree with "preconceived notions" about artifacts.

---

Here is a declared preconceived notion though:

I do not see how a gradual transition can happen without high risk of nuclear war.

[3DMonkey]

Inside me, I was not putting anyone down.

[Raman]

Inside me, I was not putting anyone down.

I was mainly referring to zenmaster.

[3DMonkey]

I've put up a number of posts about Ra quotes. They were aside to active discussions, so I'm thinking they were overlooked...

[βαθμιαίος]

I think the attempt to make Ra's information fit with our preconceived notions of an immediate zap into 4D brought about by 2012 and the like is what is clouding all this.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to ascribe motivations to other people's posts. If you're referring to me, I personally don't have "preconceived notions of an immediate zap into 4D brought about by 2012 and the like." Instead, I am trying to make sense of Ra's words on the matter.

Ra implies (17.29) that harvest is a single event rather than a process. They say that it resembles the striking of a clock, that all will be harvested regardless of progress, and that the movement from one density to another is in the nature of discrete placement of quanta over a boundary. They seem to say that third density and its artifacts will cease to exist in space/time for a while. They also say that the transition will take 100-700 years (and that that cannot be accurate) and that fourth density bodies will gradually emerge through evolutionary processes.

I, myself, can't make all of these statements fit together into a coherent narrative, so I've adopted a wait and see approach. I wouldn't be surprised if we should all find ourselves walking the steps of light tomorrow, but I also wouldn't be surprised to live out my life, die of natural causes, and experience nothing that can't be explained as gradual movement from here to there.

Harvest happens individually, after death of the chemical body.

How do you know?

3D potentiation is gradual, as instreaming of yellow ray ceases.

4D activation (to completion) is gradual, as core particles of that level are formed.

Same question: how do you know? The 4D sphere is forming now in time/space. At some point it will become active in space/time. Perhaps it's a preconceived idea of mine, but it seems logical that the changeover will be similar to throwing a switch. At one moment it will not be active in space/time; at the next it will be.

[Bring4th_Austin]

most of them, dubious and questionable. and what quo says. it is also quite questionable since it is conscious channeling.

Honestly, I am equally as skeptical of ANY information transmitted in the Ra contact that is not of spiritual nature, including things about people (Jesus, MLK, etc.), history (Atlantis, etc.), the pyramids, and all. Their descriptions of oneness, unity, Service to Others vs. Service to self, polarity, and the nature of consciousness is pretty indisputable, but I don't buy every bit of the information. I discuss it with loyalty to the material on this forum because that is one of the main purposes of this forum, but candidly, I trust Q'uo as much as Ra, and neither do I trust completely. When we start dismissing consciously channeled material simply due to the method of delivery, then I will just as ready dismiss all material in the Ra contact aside from philosophical and spiritual concepts (for example, information on harvest, ETs, science-minded metaphysics, densities, etc. I would dismiss)

Why do you put so much faith into the Ra contact, aside from the fact that it was channeled in "trance?"

Everything in our existence that we are currently aware of is beautifully orchestrated. This won't stop.

Very beautiful reminder, 3DM. Thank you for the grounding.

I, myself, can't make all of these statements fit together into a coherent narrative, so I've adopted a wait and see approach. I wouldn't be surprised if we should all find ourselves walking the steps of light tomorrow, but I also wouldn't be surprised to live out my life, die of natural causes, and experience nothing that can't be explained as gradual movement from here to there.

Very well said. I agree very much with this outlook.

But, to award myself a personal opinion, my logical mind forces me to believe that the transition will be seamless in space/time, however I wouldn't be surprised nor would I reject an instant transition to 4D because I want one or the other to be true. In fact, an instant transition would be a whole lot of fun and I would love to experience it...I just can't subscribe to it.

[Oceania]

if 2D was harvested and the change took a generation and half, doesn't that mean it will take that for us?

[βαθμιαίος]

if 2D was harvested and the change took a generation and half, doesn't that mean it will take that for us?

Maybe, but the thing that's different this time is that third density apparently will cease to be inhabited until the early fourth-density entities can learn to "maintain the illusion that fourth-density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third-density."

At the 2D/3D harvest, there was not a corresponding need for 2D to disappear for a while.

[unity100]

most of them, dubious and questionable. and what quo says. it is also quite questionable since it is conscious channeling.

Honestly, I am equally as skeptical of ANY information transmitted in the Ra contact that is not of spiritual nature, including things about people (Jesus, MLK, etc.), history (Atlantis, etc.), the pyramids, and all. Their descriptions of oneness, unity, Service to Others vs. Service to self, polarity, and the nature of consciousness is pretty indisputable, but I don't buy every bit of the information. I discuss it with loyalty to the material on this forum because that is one of the main purposes of this forum, but candidly, I trust Q'uo as much as Ra, and neither do I trust completely. When we start dismissing consciously channeled material simply due to the method of delivery, then I will just as ready dismiss all material in the Ra contact aside from philosophical and spiritual concepts (for example, information on harvest, ETs, science-minded metaphysics, densities, etc. I would dismiss)

Why do you put so much faith into the Ra contact, aside from the fact that it was channeled in "trance?"

it was a meticulous and dangerous form of out of body trance. moreover, and more importantly, information and systems given in the whole of material constitute a whole which you can start from any end, and eventually arrive at another end without breaking.

the real feature that validates this whole of information is that, it can be verified in multiple aspects. and due to interconnectedness, this validates a lot of other info in the chain directly.

[3DMonkey]

Ra implies (17.29) that harvest is a single event rather than a process. They say that it resembles the striking of a clock, that all will be harvested regardless of progress, and that the movement from one density to another is in the nature of discrete placement of quanta over a boundary. They seem to say that third density and its artifacts will cease to exist in space/time for a while. They also say that the transition will take 100-700 years (and that that cannot be accurate) and that fourth density bodies will gradually emerge through evolutionary processes.

I, myself, can't make all of these statements fit together into a coherent narrative, so I've adopted a wait and see approach. I wouldn't be surprised if we should all find ourselves walking the steps of light tomorrow, but I also wouldn't be surprised to live out my life, die of natural causes, and experience nothing that can't be explained as gradual movement from here to there.

Striking of a clock is an analogy to the rhythm of intelligent energy cycles, NOT that a transition between cycles takes an hour or any particular measurement provided by a 3D timepiece.

Ra doesn't say that 3D artifacts will cease to exist. They do say the the yellow energy nexi will be in potentiation. Potentiation is existence. In potentiation, yellow ray will be expressed some way. Trying to force this into what we should expect to "see" after harvest is not easy, if possible.

Then we get to 100-700 years. It fits because we have successfully taken away the notions that Ra ever indicates that there is an immediate switch.

Harvest happens individually, after death of the chemical body.

How do you know?

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?sea...&ss=1&sc=1
Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.

---

if 2D was harvested and the change took a generation and half, doesn't that mean it will take that for us?

40.7 Questioner: How long was the time of transition from second to third-density? A generation and a half I believe you said. Is that correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct, the time measured in your years being approximately 1,350.

Category: Third Density

40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth-density?
Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

That's more than 700!!!!!
'hey, is someone hacking the lawofone.info site?'
That's 900 years for a single generation!! Ra slipped that one in there unnoticed I guess...

[Oceania]

letterbunch! you are correct.

---

Monkey that is weird, where did you get that amount?

[3DMonkey]

I guess They meant a root race generation

[Oceania]

lol what is that?

how did you get 900 if Ra says one to seven?

[3DMonkey]

If 1350 is a generation and a half , 900 + 450 = 1350. Unless I'm totally off base.

[βαθμιαίος]

Striking of a clock is an analogy to the rhythm of intelligent energy cycles, NOT that a transition between cycles takes an hour or any particular measurement provided by a 3D timepiece.

It happens in a moment: "The cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. Thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour."

Ra doesn't say that 3D artifacts will cease to exist. They do say the the yellow energy nexi will be in potentiation. Potentiation is existence. In potentiation, yellow ray will be expressed some way.

What I wrote was "cease to exist in space/time." Space/time = activation. Time/space = potentiation. At this point the yellow-ray sphere is in activation. At some point the green-ray one will be. It seems possible that that change might be fairly noticeable.

Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.

There's nothing in this quote to indicate that the harvest must be gradual. The process described could just as easily take place after a pole shift has killed off the population or after third density bodies have suddenly failed en masse due to electrical incompatibility.

That's 900 years for a single generation!! Ra slipped that one in there unnoticed I guess...

Ra gave the appropriate life span for third density as 900 years.

[3DMonkey]

Omg. You just washed over all I said. A clock is an analogy. They are not saying that intelligent energy opens to intelligent infinity in 60 seconds. They are saying just like you can expect a clock to read 3:00 two hours after 1:00, so you can expect that a phase of energy inflow/outflow to arrive at a certain time.

A wave on a 3D clock is measured by 60 seconds. A wave of intelligent energy is not defined and is probably NOT on a sixty second flow. Hypothetically, the wave could be 1,000 years.

[Oceania]

indeed. well said Monkey!

i'm still confused about the math.

[Bring4th_Austin]

it was a meticulous and dangerous form of out of body trance. moreover, and more importantly, information and systems given in the whole of material constitute a whole which you can start from any end, and eventually arrive at another end without breaking.

the real feature that validates this whole of information is that, it can be verified in multiple aspects. and due to interconnectedness, this validates a lot of other info in the chain directly.

The source tells us it was meticulous, the source tells us it was dangerous. The information and systems are consistent, yes, but self-contained within the source.

I am skeptical of any source of information which can only be validated or verified by looking within the source itself, no matter how complex or intricately woven the material is. I understand some of the information can be validated from outside sources, but to my knowledge the information was available before the Ra contact itself, offering me no real validation. Also, just because some of the information can be validated doesn't award the other information validation.


To get personal, despite my skepticism, I put faith into some channeled material, including Ra, Q'uo, and others. But at the end of the day, unverifiable channeled information is unverifiable channeled information, Ra and Q'uo both included.

[Oceania]

indeed.