3D to 4D: Sudden or Gradual? A great read...(David Wilcock interview)

[Oceania]

noone's reverting, everyone is harvested into new bodies aren't they?

[3DMonkey]

'electrical fields of 3d bodies fail when aware of 4d in full' comes to mind ...

That's a pretty creepy thought...waking up one morning and the only people left functioning are dual bodies entities...the rest of the population reverting to 2D functions...

But, the transitional bodies are not aware of 4D in full either. Until pure 4D bodies are evolved, complete awareness of 4D would cause electrical incompatibilities no matter what.

Right.

63.13...This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

Ra says "if", not "will". ... Also, Ra says "electrically aware". I don't know what that means, but it is distinct from saying "consciously aware", "physically aware", or "spiritually aware."

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And what would a failure of electrical field of an entity look like anyway?

[Bring4th_Austin]

noone's reverting, everyone is harvested into new bodies aren't they?

A lot of people in society barely function above a high 2nd density level anyways...our society carries some dangerous evolutionary baggage from 2D.

I imagine that, as 3D vibrations cease to stream, some of the 3D individuals who have made very little 3D progress will probably do something similar to reverting to a high 2D state, but the difference won't be very noticeable from behavior now.

This is, of course, until their death. As Ra states, death is necessary for harvest. Once they die, they'll be ushered to a planet with full 3D vibrations to help them learn their lessons.

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Ra says "if", not "will". ... Also, Ra says "electrically aware". I don't know what that means, but it is distinct from saying "consciously aware", "physically aware", or "spiritually aware."

As far as I'm aware, these things are all tied to electromagnetism, especially "consciously aware." Our consciousness is electromagnetic in nature. 4D incarnations themselves are electrically aware by nature. I think the main difference between 3D and 4D incarnation is that there's basically another layer of awareness to reality. Right now we're chemically aware, viewing the matter all around us in a very structured, solid, chemical way. In 4D, I think we'll see/be aware of much much more than that.

[Oceania]

what? they can't revert. Maldek reverted but that was due to destroying a planet. huge karma. earthlings haven't done anything like that. why would they need to revert? they'll simply be shipped off to another planet, rather. although i dunno how that would be done with free will. Ra said whipping the Martians away was against free will.

also, Ra doesn't say we'll know about the deaths, for all we know we could wake up in identical bodies.

[3DMonkey]

19.19 Questioner: Then it would seem that there is a relationship between what we perceive as a physical phenomenon, say the electrical phenomenon, and the phenomenon of consciousness in that they, having stemmed from the One Creator, are practically identical but have different actions. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. Again we oversimplify to answer your query.

The physical complex alone is created of many, many energy or electromagnetic fields interacting due to intelligent energy, the mental configurations or distortions of each complex further adding fields of electromagnetic energy and distorting the physical complex patterns of energy, the spiritual aspect serving as a further complexity of fields which is of itself perfect but which can be realized in many distorted and unintegrated ways by the mind and body complexes of energy fields.

Thus, instead of one, shall we say, magnet with one polarity you have in the body/mind/spirit complex one basic polarity expressed in what you would call violet-ray energy, the sum of the energy fields, but which is affected by thought of all kinds generated by the mind complex, by distortions of the body complex, and by the numerous relationships between the microcosm which is the entity and the macrocosm in many forms which you may represent by viewing the stars, as you call them, each with a contributing energy ray which enters the electromagnetic web of the entity due to its individual distortions.

Maybe "electrically aware" means all three, mind/body/spirit. If an entity's electrical fields were to "fail", perhaps this is an indication of ceasing to exist, not as a physical body, but as an entity. This is not a possibility, so, perhaps, to say "IF" is to say "it would never happen because the universe doesn't operate that way."

In the same quote, Ra makes a distinct transition of topics to further say, in my words "oh yeah, you also asked about death, yes they will die as you know death".

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what? they can't revert. Maldek reverted but that was due to destroying a planet. huge karma. earthlings haven't done anything like that. why would they need to revert? they'll simply be shipped off to another planet, rather. although i dunno how that would be done with free will. Ra said whipping the Martians away was against free will.

also, Ra doesn't say we'll know about the deaths, for all we know we could wake up in identical bodies.

I don't know how "revert" started being discussed here.

Based on this post alone, I comment.
Some of us may choose to revert. And what is a Wanderer, but an entity voluntarily reverting to a lesser density because they love.

[Bring4th_Austin]

what? they can't revert. Maldek reverted but that was due to destroying a planet. huge karma. earthlings haven't done anything like that. why would they need to revert? they'll simply be shipped off to another planet, rather. although i dunno how that would be done with free will. Ra said whipping the Martians away was against free will.

I didn't mean or say that they would continue on in 2D incarnations. I mean, for the remainder of this incarnation as time progresses, their thoughts and consciousness will likely be constricted to that of high 2D thought patterns since they have not/can not take advantage of 4D vibrations, and new 3D vibrations will not be there.

Once harvested (after death), they'll continue 3D incarnations elsewhere. But 3D work and thought will be nigh impossible without 3D instreamings.

also, Ra doesn't say we'll know about the deaths, for all we know we could wake up in identical bodies.

What bodies? Where did they come from? What is the point of transitional bodies in this scenario?

[unity100]

I'm not buying that when Ra says 'artifacts', they are referring to man-influenced, 1st-density formations. That is, given that these structures don't carry a 'special energy' that binds their molecules according to 3rd density principles. They're bound and maintained according to 1st density, physical / chemical principles (of course).

they are tied to thought forms in time/space. or, anything in time/space that has ties to them.

the same mechanism that is behind magic usage through objects, charging etc.

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So, a harvest which physically removes the 3D bodies of those alive today would have be selective in the removal, allowing the transitional bodies to continue on. I find it a lot more logical to assume that these pure 3D bodies will die of "natural causes," but that is only my opinion.

'electrical fields of 3d bodies fail when aware of 4d in full' comes to mind ...

Would that apply to 3d "artifacts" as well? INcluding not only a pair of shoes...but a nuclear plant?

dont think so.

[3DMonkey]

It's electrical fields of 3D "Entities" that would fail. Not 3D "bodies". ... It's a reference to the existence of transitional bodies. It is not in reference to a mass harvest.

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It is a recipe for existence. A little bit of this energy, a little bit of that energy, voila. A 3D entity won't be electrically aware of a 4D in full. And this, this, and this are how it is worked around.

[Oceania]

the aliens swap us into them after the test in yellow ray.

[zenmaster]

I'm not buying that when Ra says 'artifacts', they are referring to man-influenced, 1st-density formations. That is, given that these structures don't carry a 'special energy' that binds their molecules according to 3rd density principles. They're bound and maintained according to 1st density, physical / chemical principles (of course).

they are tied to thought forms in time/space. or, anything in time/space that has ties to them.

the same mechanism that is behind magic usage through objects, charging etc.

Yes, the principle of 3D thought forms and feelings are understood well enough, and that these are of a time/space nature. But this 3D influence are not psychically binding the structures at the 1D level. Therefore, the point is that 1D creations do not go away. Feelings and thought forms, being nonlocal, can be projected onto anything. The moon, for example. The 1D moon will not go into potentiation.

[Raman]

....[] Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

May we answer any brief queries as we leave this instrument?

[zenmaster]

which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

And?

[Raman]

63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

May we answer any brief queries as we leave this instrument?

This is the full quote. Ra did not contradict Don but added the artifacts, etc...to the vibrations that are not activated. Therefore it appears to mean...all these are potentiated.

[zenmaster]

At this point, I think we're all familiar with the material. What would be useful would be some kind of considered opinion on the subject.

[3DMonkey]

63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

May we answer any brief queries as we leave this instrument?

This is the full quote. Ra did not contradict Don but added the artifacts, etc...to the vibrations that are not activated. Therefore it appears to mean...all these are potentiated.

Technically, Ra does not answer to anything about what will be in potentiation. Ra does not comment on the statements from Don. Ra answers the question about what vibrations are on "this planet at this time." To assume Ra was confirming the statement before the question is, well, assumption.

[zenmaster]

To assume Ra was confirming the statement before the question is, well, assumption.

Exactly, and no doubt we have formed our opinions from somewhere. Would be good, especially if we have convinced ourselves of an idea, to share how they were formed.

[3DMonkey]

If I were to be openly honest, I'd say I am not convinced of anything. This is difficult to admit because I fear automatic rejection for saying so.

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Actually, there are some things I am privately "convinced" on, but they are not politically correct. In an open environment, a circle of trust (LOL), I could pour it all out.

[Raman]

I think we should keep an open mind. I see relevance in that Ra did not contradict Don but added artifacts, thoughts, etc produced by 3d entities. It is very clear what is potentiated and what is activated. There is no need to play complicated games with this. Ideas are formed all the time. Some have more difficulty opening up to new ideas others less.

[3DMonkey]

Make believe was is not there? ... Well, that's relevant on multiple levels. Yes? We are co creators after all.

[Bring4th_Austin]

To assume Ra was confirming the statement before the question is, well, assumption.

Exactly, and no doubt we have formed our opinions from somewhere. Would be good, especially if we have convinced ourselves of an idea, to share how they were formed.

I have never pondered this passage before. I had sort of a knee jerk reaction to the idea of structures and other "artifacts" being destroyed or wiped out because of a previous opinion on how the transition will go. I've been pondering the artifact passage all night and can't say I've gotten anywhere. I honestly don't think enough context was given for me to fully form an opinion. I think my opinion on how the transition will go still stands.

If I were to be openly honest, I'd say I am not convinced of anything. This is difficult to admit because I fear automatic rejection for saying so.

Come back when you have an opinion sir

I think we should keep an open mind. I see relevance in that Ra did not contradict Don but added artifacts, thoughts, etc produced by 3d entities. It is very clear what is potentiated and what is activated. There is no need to play complicated games with this. Ideas are formed all the time. Some have more difficulty opening up to new ideas others less.

Ra did not explicitly state what would go into potentiation. They did not even mention potentiation. They only spoke about what was part of our 3D sphere at this time.


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Maybe, as we manifest 4th Density into space/time, this will include (re)manifesting these artifacts into 4th Density. The only thing that makes the artifacts more than 1D material is our perception and use of them as 3D tools. Obviously, when we are 4D, we will no longer use them in a 3D manner, and they will become 4D artifacts. The artifacts we don't use will no longer be 3D artifacts, but just left-over 1D material from our 3D existence.

I think that explanation jives with me.

[Raman]

This all thing is a make believe show...However not so make believe because it really gives you joy and also hurts...

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[....]
I think that explanation jives with me.

It is good to keep a sense of mystery...After all the Creator and the Creation is a Mystery.

[Bring4th_Austin]

My curiosity is unquenchable. We could explain away every word ever written on Earth and I'd only have twice as many questions than I started with. The mystery never disappears for me

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I was looking over this particular Ra session one more time before bed and found an exchange which might also offer clues to the nature of artifacts and their role in 3D potentiation:

63.8 Questioner: I would like to continue with the questions about the fact that in fourth-density the red, orange, and green energies will be activated; yellow, blue, etc. being in potentiation. Right now, we have green energies activated. They have been activated for the last 45 years. I am wondering about the transition through this period so that the green is totally activated and the yellow is in potentiation. What will we lose as the yellow goes from activation into potentiation, and what will we gain as green comes into total activation, and what is the process?
Ra: I am Ra. It is misleading to speak of gains and losses when dealing with the subject of the cycle’s ending and the green-ray cycle beginning upon your sphere. It is to be kept in the forefront of the faculties of intelligence that there is one creation in which there is no loss. There are progressive cycles for experiential use by entities. We may now address your query.

As the green-ray cycle or the density of love and understanding begins to take shape the yellow-ray plane or Earth which you now enjoy in your dance will cease to be inhabited for some period of your space/time as the space/time necessary for fourth-density entities to learn their ability to shield their density from that of third is learned. After this period there will come a time when third-density may again cycle on the yellow-ray sphere.

Meanwhile there is another sphere, congruent to a great extent with yellow ray, forming. This fourth-density sphere coexists with first, second, and third. It is of a denser nature due to the rotational core atomic aspects of its material. We have discussed this subject with you.

Does anyone else interpret this to mean that the artifacts will be included in the 4D sphere, only they will then be 4D artifacts built of 4D atoms instead of 3D artifacts? Basically, the 3D artifacts are simply and seamlessly replaced by identical 4D artifacts? I'm quite tired, my mind is not up for interpreting Ra's words right now.

[zenmaster]

To assume Ra was confirming the statement before the question is, well, assumption.

Exactly, and no doubt we have formed our opinions from somewhere. Would be good, especially if we have convinced ourselves of an idea, to share how they were formed.

I have never pondered this passage before. I had sort of a knee jerk reaction to the idea of structures and other "artifacts" being destroyed or wiped out because of a previous opinion on how the transition will go. I've been pondering the artifact passage all night and can't say I've gotten anywhere. I honestly don't think enough context was given for me to fully form an opinion. I think my opinion on how the transition will go still stands.

Sounds like you don't have an 'open mind', and can't see what is plainly there.

[Bring4th_Austin]

To assume Ra was confirming the statement before the question is, well, assumption.

Exactly, and no doubt we have formed our opinions from somewhere. Would be good, especially if we have convinced ourselves of an idea, to share how they were formed.

I have never pondered this passage before. I had sort of a knee jerk reaction to the idea of structures and other "artifacts" being destroyed or wiped out because of a previous opinion on how the transition will go. I've been pondering the artifact passage all night and can't say I've gotten anywhere. I honestly don't think enough context was given for me to fully form an opinion. I think my opinion on how the transition will go still stands.

Sounds like you don't have an 'open mind', and can't see what is plainly there.

Obviously not, since it's so plain to see.

[unity100]

I'm not buying that when Ra says 'artifacts', they are referring to man-influenced, 1st-density formations. That is, given that these structures don't carry a 'special energy' that binds their molecules according to 3rd density principles. They're bound and maintained according to 1st density, physical / chemical principles (of course).

they are tied to thought forms in time/space. or, anything in time/space that has ties to them.

the same mechanism that is behind magic usage through objects, charging etc.

Yes, the principle of 3D thought forms and feelings are understood well enough, and that these are of a time/space nature. But this 3D influence are not psychically binding the structures at the 1D level. Therefore, the point is that 1D creations do not go away. Feelings and thought forms, being nonlocal, can be projected onto anything. The moon, for example. The 1D moon will not go into potentiation.

the deal is, to each dimension, there is a time/space counterpart. remember how Ra has not left the 5d time/space of this planet since they came from venus.

so basically, there would be time/space counterparts of these structures, vibrating in yellow spectrum, and still being present in time/space.

the question is, whether these time/space constructs will stay or go away.

[βαθμιαίος]

Ra did not explicitly state what would go into potentiation. They did not even mention potentiation. They only spoke about what was part of our 3D sphere at this time.

That's true enough about 63.32, but Don was following up on an answer from the previous session: "62.30 ... Thus in fourth density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo."

When you combine the two answers, it seems a reasonably safe guess that Ra was saying that all the things that make up third density ("mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density,... artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings") will go into potentiation.

[Oceania]

If I were to be openly honest, I'd say I am not convinced of anything. This is difficult to admit because I fear automatic rejection for saying so.

---

Actually, there are some things I am privately "convinced" on, but they are not politically correct. In an open environment, a circle of trust (LOL), I could pour it all out.

i have such thoughts. care to share?

[3DMonkey]

Ra did not explicitly state what would go into potentiation. They did not even mention potentiation. They only spoke about what was part of our 3D sphere at this time.

That's true enough about 63.32, but Don was following up on an answer from the previous session: "62.30 ... Thus in fourth density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo."

When you combine the two answers, it seems a reasonably safe guess that Ra was saying that all the things that make up third density ("mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density,... artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings") will go into potentiation.

Could you remind me why this is important to point out? Are we trying to correlate it to something else?

[βαθμιαίος]

I think we're trying to make sense of Ra's somewhat confusing statements about the transition from third density to fourth. If the transition is going to be gradual, how can it be that third density artifacts will go into potentiation? Will all our buildings, roads, etc. just suddenly disappear? That seems to me to be what Ra is saying, but how does it square with a gradual transition? And yet, Ra clearly says there will be a gradual evolution to fourth-density bodies.

[3DMonkey]

I think we're trying to make sense of Ra's somewhat confusing statements about the transition from third density to fourth. If the transition is going to be gradual, how can it be that third density artifacts will go into potentiation? Will all our buildings, roads, etc. just suddenly disappear? That seems to me to be what Ra is saying, but how does it square with a gradual transition? And yet, Ra clearly says there will be a gradual evolution to fourth-density bodies.

That's what I thought.

There isn't a need to make the two the same. Third density will, at some point, not be activated. The gradual transition will be fully expressed before this happens.

I think the attempt to make Ra's information fit with our preconceived notions of an immediate zap into 4D brought about by 2012 and the like is what is clouding all this.

2012 is one event. Harvest is another event. 3D potentiation is another event. 4D activation is another event.

Everything in our existence that we are currently aware of is beautifully orchestrated. This won't stop.