Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods

[zenmaster]

that is not possible. if so, those entities who would live natural lives throughout the harvest would not be able to get harvested because they were not disincarnate.

When they become disincarnate, they get harvested. Seems simple enough. Not sure why you say it's not possible.

if it was so, there would be no need to send a light being to the 2nd cycle harvestees, tell them about 4d, and 3d, and offer them a choice of getting harvested, or staying.

I don't think that follows.

however it happened. 'those who chose not to stay' it says, were those peripherally affiliated with this culture, but they were not harvestable, so they repeated the 3d from highest octave - highest octave part, is rather indicative there - it means closing days of 3d, when in last cycle, when a planet's vibration is in higher vestiges of 3d. else, you cant repeat 3d from the highest octave. remember what was told about the sirius entities - that they were in last octave of 3d.

I interpret the subdensities differently. Last subdensity just means the highest expression of what 3D offers. i.e. the wanderer tends to quickly reach 4th chakra activation, which corresponds to last subdensity. This is regardless of durational component of the 3rd density.

you dont need to send light beings/messengers to entities who are going to die out natural deaths, and then going to get harvested in disincarnate form - there is no need to.

but, such an action was undertaken.

The light being was explaining their situation so that they would know (they were isolated) and to make a more informed decision. Not sure why there is no 'need' to provide this information. After death of 3d body (and contact with 'intelligent infinity') is the only circumstance where we may prepare the new body (from the transitional body).

[Raman]

[quote='3DMonkey' pid='40134' dateline='1305374906']
[quote]
6.15 Questioner: What is the length, in our years, of one of these cycles?
Ra: One major cycle is approximately 25,000 of your years. There are three cycles of this nature during which those who have progressed may be harvested at the end of three major cycles. That is, approximately between 75 and 76,000 of your years. All are harvested regardless of their progress, for during that time the planet itself has moved through the useful part of that dimension and begins to cease being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.[/quote]
[quote]
..all are harvested regardless of their progress...[/quote]
[quote]
Certainly. No indication here that it happens within a day, a month, a year... [/quote]


--Don obtains a date = 2011 (Ra cannot give exact dates but Don is keen enough to obtain one --when Ra gives probabilities, these probabilities are probably better than the ones given by a weatherman on tv, for example...)

--Ra says other 6d group returned to south america last landing 3000 years ago; note also reference to south american (mayan) pyramids:

[quote]

14.4 Questioner: I understand from previous material that this occurred 75,000 years ago. It was then that our third-density process of evolution began. Can you tell me the history, hitting only the points of development, shall I say, that occurred within this 75,000 years, any point when contact was made to aid this development?
Ra: I am Ra. The first attempt to aid your peoples was at the time 75,000. This attempt 75,000 of your years ago has been previously described by us. The next attempt was approximately 58,000 of your years ago, continuing for a long period in your measurement, with those of Mu as you call this race or mind/body/spirit social complex. The next attempt was long in coming and occurred approximately 13,000 of your years ago when some intelligent information was offered to those of Atlantis, this being of the same type of healing and crystal working of which we have spoken previously. The next attempt was 11,000 of your years ago. These are approximations as we are not totally able to process your space/time continuum measurement system. This was in what you call Egypt and of this we have also spoken. The same beings who came with us returned approximately 3,500 years later in order to attempt to aid the South American mind/body/spirit social complex once again. However, the pyramids of those so-called cities were not to be used in the appropriate fashion.

Therefore, this was not pursued further. There was a landing approximately 3,000 of your years ago also in your South America, as you call it. There were a few attempts to aid your peoples approximately 2,300 years ago, this in the area of Egypt. The remaining part of the cycle, we have never been gone from your fifth dimension and have been working in this last minor cycle to prepare for harvest. [/quote]

We have two 6d groups. Ra and another one who had affinity apparently with the mayans.

Mayans have a calendar and other structures apparently influenced by that other 6d group, all cycles appear to end in Oct 28 2011 according to that calendar.

All entities are harvested at the end on last cycle 75000 years at the end on 3rd density. The end of the cycle appears to be 2011.

All these are my personal opinions based on the above comments.

[unity100]

that is not possible. if so, those entities who would live natural lives throughout the harvest would not be able to get harvested because they were not disincarnate.

When they become disincarnate, they get harvested. Seems simple enough. Not sure why you say it's not possible.

if it was so, there would be no need to send a light being to the 2nd cycle harvestees, tell them about 4d, and 3d, and offer them a choice of getting harvested, or staying.

I don't think that follows.

just reread the parts about 2nd cycle on this planet :

there were 150 entities harvestable at this planet at that time. confederation sent light beings to these entities. these light beings appeared, carrying a shield of light, and told these entities about love, 4d, harvest, what awaits harvestees, etc. and it also made telepathic linkage to inform about difficulties of 3d.

entities CHOSE to stay. they may even still got disincarnated during harvest though. we dont know that. they chose to stay on planet to help others.

I interpret the subdensities differently. Last subdensity just means the highest expression of what 3D offers. i.e. the wanderer tends to quickly reach 4th chakra activation, which corresponds to last subdensity. This is regardless of durational component of the 3rd density.

yes, but you need a sphere that provides that vibration - subdensity. you cant just go to any 3d planet, and experience any given subdensity. the vibration the 3d entities' sphere provides should provide for that.

The light being was explaining their situation so that they would know (they were isolated) and to make a more informed decision. Not sure why there is no 'need' to provide this information. After death of 3d body (and contact with 'intelligent infinity') is the only circumstance where we may prepare the new body (from the transitional body).

you are missing out the detail that, had harvest been an after-death affair, there would be no need to send a light being to INCARNATE entities. the light being was sent while they were incarnate.

[3DMonkey]

"yes, but you need a sphere that provides that vibration - subdensity. you cant just go to any 3d planet, and experience any given subdensity. the vibration the 3d entities' sphere provides should provide for that."

Sure we can.

" the light being was sent while they were incarnate."

How can you be certain of this?

[Raman]

Is it possible then that at harvest time, last cycle...end of 3d..etc...

....A choice is given to harvestable 3d and dual bodies entities for that 100-700 year period to finish up the transition? then space-time evolution is not disrupted...To be honest it seems that many will make this choice especially dual body entities.

Then it will be a time of preparation and clean-up.

This could indicate the nature of the so famous disclosure but it would be relevant to the "new" earth inhabitants for that period.

Then, dual bodies would die according to 3d necessities...

Then full activation could be no 3d <51% STO and no STS able to survive?

[zenmaster]

I interpret the subdensities differently. Last subdensity just means the highest expression of what 3D offers. i.e. the wanderer tends to quickly reach 4th chakra activation, which corresponds to last subdensity. This is regardless of durational component of the 3rd density.

yes, but you need a sphere that provides that vibration - subdensity. you cant just go to any 3d planet, and experience any given subdensity. the vibration the 3d entities' sphere provides should provide for that.

All of the subdensities are available and active once a density has been activated. A subdensity is just a position of 'light' within a density.

17.34 Questioner: Then if an entity is harvested into the fourth density with a grade of fifty-one percent for others and forty-nine percent for self, what level of the fourth density would he go into? I am assuming that there are different levels of the fourth density.

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Each enters that sub-density which vibrates in accordance with the entity’s understanding.

The light being was explaining their situation so that they would know (they were isolated) and to make a more informed decision. Not sure why there is no 'need' to provide this information. After death of 3d body (and contact with 'intelligent infinity') is the only circumstance where we may prepare the new body (from the transitional body).

you are missing out the detail that, had harvest been an after-death affair, there would be no need to send a light being to INCARNATE entities. the light being was sent while they were incarnate.

I would emphasize 'incarnate' in a different manner. They were all together, right there, at the same time, as a group, while incarnate.

---

This is the exact same principle for entering into the subdensities of 3rd density. But the subdensities have *nothing to do* with harvest, which is related to crossing density boundaries. As far as I know, and as I've said before, the vibrational understanding or subdensities have been identified by the 'core valuing systems' related in the system of Spiral Dynamics:
1 'Beige'
2 'Purple'
3 'Red'
4 'Blue'
5 'Orange'
6 'Green'
7 'Yellow' - last subdensity

'adept' values:
8 'Turquoise'
9 'Coral'

[Raman]

I interpret the subdensities differently. Last subdensity just means the highest expression of what 3D offers. i.e. the wanderer tends to quickly reach 4th chakra activation, which corresponds to last subdensity. This is regardless of durational component of the 3rd density.

yes, but you need a sphere that provides that vibration - subdensity. you cant just go to any 3d planet, and experience any given subdensity. the vibration the 3d entities' sphere provides should provide for that.

All of the subdensities are available and active once a density has been activated. A subdensity is just a position of 'light' within a density.

17.34 Questioner: Then if an entity is harvested into the fourth density with a grade of fifty-one percent for others and forty-nine percent for self, what level of the fourth density would he go into? I am assuming that there are different levels of the fourth density.

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Each enters that sub-density which vibrates in accordance with the entity’s understanding.

The light being was explaining their situation so that they would know (they were isolated) and to make a more informed decision. Not sure why there is no 'need' to provide this information. After death of 3d body (and contact with 'intelligent infinity') is the only circumstance where we may prepare the new body (from the transitional body).

you are missing out the detail that, had harvest been an after-death affair, there would be no need to send a light being to INCARNATE entities. the light being was sent while they were incarnate.

I would emphasize 'incarnate' in a different manner. They were all together, right there, at the same time, as a group, while incarnate.

---

This is the exact same principle for entering into the subdensities of 3rd density. But the subdensities have *nothing to do* with harvest, which is related to crossing density boundaries. As far as I know, and as I've said before, the vibrational understanding or subdensities have been identified by the 'core valuing systems' related in the system of Spiral Dynamics:
1 'Beige'
2 'Purple'
3 'Red'
4 'Blue'
5 'Orange'
6 'Green'
7 'Yellow' - last subdensity

'adept' values:
8 'Turquoise'
9 'Coral'

In my opinion, bringing spiral dinamics, "vmemes" stc is unnecessary and an superfluous way to complicate things since different terms, ideas, color definitions, etc, just create more terms that are based on other terms that people forget at the end were everything originates, who said what when and why. yes those are nice words and good conversation material for a cocktail party but as I said it complicates things so much that the original thoughts/goal searching is blurred not only by different definitions that lose bases to stand on after time, but at the end it becomes a "game language".

Bottom line is that it takes us so far away from the Ra material that everything becomes as valid as the next. That is then you have Hunt and the brotherhood of seven rays, then mix that with the vmemes a little bit of larson and Ra material and there: cocktail done!

The problem with this is reliability. It is completely fine if for some or for you, if vmemes and its colors and Hunt's writting has the same validity as the Ra material, however to me they are not and this poses the problem of endless discussions and arguments since we don't agree on the reliability of sources.

[zenmaster]

It's not a question of them being as reliable as the Ra material. They are on a different level, of course, and just examples with some validity and utility. For example, Ra says one must find the biases in mind and body. These biases have been identified and shared by people, in their own journeys. I think they have application in conjunction to the Ra Material. I agree that some people may have more of a difficult time, than others, blurring the distinctions between one person's thought and that of another's, though. But I thought most were past that initial learning stage, where they have already accepted the material into a worldview, and therefore are less confusable when presented with other systems of thought.

[3DMonkey]

Is it possible then that at harvest time, last cycle...end of 3d..etc...

....A choice is given to harvestable 3d and dual bodies entities for that 100-700 year period to finish up the transition? then space-time evolution is not disrupted...To be honest it seems that many will make this choice especially dual body entities.

Then it will be a time of preparation and clean-up.

This could indicate the nature of the so famous disclosure but it would be relevant to the "new" earth inhabitants for that period.

Then, dual bodies would die according to 3d necessities...

Then full activation could be no 3d <51% STO and no STS able to survive?

This is possible. There is nothing in LOO to eliminate this possibility. I believe it is also possible to allow the final incarnations of non-harvestables to finish out their incarnations in their individual times.

[Raman]

haha bring that orange on!
It seems to me and I will repeat it: that you do not think of Ra material as a reliable source judging by your comments and by always bringing MAINSTREAM theories to the table at the end, even when discussing Larson etc...It is very obvious to me...you can again go back to "Oh you mean you have not passed the first learning stage?" "then how do you dare in responding to my posts?" The systems of thought you present are not reliable to me.

Man, you make me laugh sometimes.

[zenmaster]

You are emphasizing the word 'mainstream'. Is there something about that idea that you are reacting against?

[3DMonkey]

It's good to laugh. Q'uo says it is folly to take yourself too seriously.

[Raman]

Is it possible then that at harvest time, last cycle...end of 3d..etc...

....A choice is given to harvestable 3d and dual bodies entities for that 100-700 year period to finish up the transition? then space-time evolution is not disrupted...To be honest it seems that many will make this choice especially dual body entities.

Then it will be a time of preparation and clean-up.

This could indicate the nature of the so famous disclosure but it would be relevant to the "new" earth inhabitants for that period.

Then, dual bodies would die according to 3d necessities...

Then full activation could be no 3d <51% STO and no STS able to survive?

This is possible. There is nothing in LOO to eliminate this possibility. I believe it is also possible to allow the final incarnations of non-harvestables to finish out their incarnations in their individual times.

Then, what is the meaning of "full activation" and yellow ray being potentiated?

To be honest I do not see Q'uo as a reliable source at this point. Mainly because Ra's channel a very narrow band and required specific arrrangements like entering via violet and remaining in blue requiring for this being unconscious/in trance.

Q'uo channelings are open to channeler's biases. Whereas Ra's main problem I think was due to the choice of words at times, having to do with Carla's vocabulary in order to express thoughts given. Also, at times, some periods could be commas, etc...

[3DMonkey]

To be honest I do not see Q'uo as a reliable source at this point. Mainly because Ra's channel a very narrow band and required specific arrrangements like entering via violet and remaining in blue requiring for this being unconscious/in trance.

Q'uo channelings are open to channeler's biases. Whereas Ra's main problem I think was due to the choice of words at times, having to do with Carla's vocabulary in order to express thoughts given. Also, at times, some periods could be commas, etc...

I can appreciate that. I wanted to encourage you to laugh. That's all.

Then, what is the meaning of "full activation" and yellow ray being potentiated?

I'm not one who can explain that any better than my limited understanding of it.
I'm more confident in saying that Harvest is not necessarily the full activation of the green ray sphere.

Venturing to understand full activation- we know that the yellow ray sphere is fully activated, right? And potentiation is sort of a blending of the yellow ray energies with other colors as opposed to having that color, yellow, acting of itself. Again, my limited understanding of the terms.

[Raman]

[...]

you are missing out the detail that, had harvest been an after-death affair, there would be no need to send a light being to INCARNATE entities. the light being was sent while they were incarnate.

That's very sharp unity100.

This could bring the high probability that end of cycle Harvest is both sudden and transitional. Sudden for 3d entities ready to go as they are <51% (since it is end of 3d cycle) and transitional for + entities willing to stay to build new earth with dual body entities. I am assuming that new children being born and children in general already made that choice to stay?

[3DMonkey]

[...]

you are missing out the detail that, had harvest been an after-death affair, there would be no need to send a light being to INCARNATE entities. the light being was sent while they were incarnate.

That's very sharp unity100.

This could bring the high probability that end of cycle Harvest is both sudden and transitional. Sudden for 3d entities ready to go as they are <51% (since it is end of 3d cycle) and transitional for + entities willing to stay to build new earth with dual body entities. I am assuming that new children being born and children in general already made that choice to stay?

Ra does say that incarnation priority is given to entities that are more likely to graduate.

That light being did not necessarily visit them while they were incarnate.

[Raman]

Ra does say that incarnation priority is given to entities that are more likely to graduate.

Yes that is true, but it does not correlate with end result of harvest+ end of cycle in terms of our discussion here.

That light being did not necessarily visit them while they were incarnate.

It seems to me a choice was given to 150 entities that were harvestable they remained in 3d by choice after the light source communicated...but they were NOT harvested...

The other selves of these entities that were not harvestable remained here physically...there was not a whole group that died and then came back in masse...

It seems that 1st and second cycle harvests can involve a contact by a 6d group with harvestable entities. Note that the population on earth was not reduced to south america. That not everybody died at the same time in order to assess harvestability.

It seems, only 150 entities on that particular group (out of total earth population) were given opportunity to leave..that could mean that harvest is automatic in 1st/2nd cycles applying only to harvestable entities...

Then on 3rd and final cycle, same occurs but all are harvested regardless of progress. Then, it is assumed (by me) that a choice could be given again this time to stay if just for a short period to 3d harvestables (+) and obviously dual activated ones since that was precisely the purpose at the end of 3rd cycle.

It could be that this 9th wave will "kill" the non-harvestable 3d's and negative ones. Given all these parallels and 6d sources of both Ra material and mayan calendar's.

[Confused]

What do you guys make of this? --

63.9 Questioner: At present we have, in third-density incarnation on this plane, those third-density entities of the planet Earth who have been here for some number of incarnations who will graduate in the three-way split, either positive polarity remaining for fourth-density experience on this planet, the negative polarity harvestable going to another planet, and the rest unharvestable third-density going to another third-density planet. In addition to these entities I am assuming that we have here some entities already harvestable from other third-density planets who have come here and have incarnated in third-density form to make the transition with this planet into fourth-density, plus Wanderers.

Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct except we may note a small point.

The positively oriented harvested entities will remain in this planetary influence but not upon this plane.

[3DMonkey]

What do you guys make of this? --

63.9 Questioner: At present we have, in third-density incarnation on this plane, those third-density entities of the planet Earth who have been here for some number of incarnations who will graduate in the three-way split, either positive polarity remaining for fourth-density experience on this planet, the negative polarity harvestable going to another planet, and the rest unharvestable third-density going to another third-density planet. In addition to these entities I am assuming that we have here some entities already harvestable from other third-density planets who have come here and have incarnated in third-density form to make the transition with this planet into fourth-density, plus Wanderers.

Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct except we may note a small point.

The positively oriented harvested entities will remain in this planetary influence but not upon this plane.

Harvest happens in time/space. To be harvested, they will be there.

43.25 Questioner: On this planet after the harvest is complete, will fourth-density beings be incarnate on the surface as we know it now?
Ra: I am Ra. The probability/possibility vortices indicate this to be most likely.

You see now how "after harvest is complete" is literal to Ra? It could be 8 billion years after for all we know. One thing is indicated, there will be a surface as we know it now after Harvest.

---

In addition, the harvestED in time/space can move 2,000 years ahead and experience their first 4D incarnation at that time, on that plane.

[Raman]

What do you guys make of this? --

63.9 Questioner: At present we have, in third-density incarnation on this plane, those third-density entities of the planet Earth who have been here for some number of incarnations who will graduate in the three-way split, either positive polarity remaining for fourth-density experience on this planet, the negative polarity harvestable going to another planet, and the rest unharvestable third-density going to another third-density planet. In addition to these entities I am assuming that we have here some entities already harvestable from other third-density planets who have come here and have incarnated in third-density form to make the transition with this planet into fourth-density, plus Wanderers.

Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct except we may note a small point.

The positively oriented harvested entities will remain in this planetary influence but not upon this plane.

Harvest happens in time/space. To be harvested, they will be there.

43.25 Questioner: On this planet after the harvest is complete, will fourth-density beings be incarnate on the surface as we know it now?
Ra: I am Ra. The probability/possibility vortices indicate this to be most likely.

You see now how "after harvest is complete" is literal to Ra? It could be 8 billion years after for all we know. One thing is indicated, there will be a surface as we know it now after Harvest.

---

In addition, the harvestED in time/space can move 2,000 years ahead and experience their first 4D incarnation at that time, on that plane.

Dual activated are already harvested. Probably from many different planets too.

[3DMonkey]

I suppose, technically, we are all harvested entities

[Raman]

Most probably, if not wanderers. That's why I think this info is very important since if there is a transition it should be known what more or less this is about. Children and newborns will carry on...

---

Then as you as we can see, this is not only about harvest but about beginning of new density...I guess that is what (maybe misnomer) full activation means..this transition...which coincides with harvest but also end of 3d. Which is why this 9th wave seems so important.

[unity100]

All of the subdensities are available and active once a density has been activated. A subdensity is just a position of 'light' within a density.

17.34 Questioner: Then if an entity is harvested into the fourth density with a grade of fifty-one percent for others and forty-nine percent for self, what level of the fourth density would he go into? I am assuming that there are different levels of the fourth density.

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Each enters that sub-density which vibrates in accordance with the entity’s understanding.

vibrations are available. experiences are not.

for you to experience a 3d or 4d sub-octave experience proper for you, a sphere that provides that vibration needs to exist, complete with its participants. meaning, other entities.

for example, when the 3rd density on this planet becomes vacant after a period of time, there will still be all vibrations of all sub octaves, but you wont be able to experience anything here, if you attempt to incarnate here - there are no other 3d entities.

and, when a new cycle is started here, you wont be able to experience last octave of 3rd density, if the entities who started this cycle are of lower sub-densities.

they will still be living in early 3d vibrations, therefore they wont be able to provide interactions and experiences of the kind you require in your higher sub-density.

basically imagine yourself at the start of this planet's cycle, in primitive conditions - you will only be exposed to at most 50-100 people (if your tribe is that big), everything in your life will be extremely simple, and everything regarding interaction of entities will be basic ranging from social relationships to communications to anything.

so, you would be (maybe) vibrating in the last octave of the yellow, supplied by the vibration of the planet, but, you wouldnt be able to do anything with it, because there wouldnt be any meaningful recipient of your interactions.

I would emphasize 'incarnate' in a different manner. They were all together, right there, at the same time, as a group, while incarnate.

---

This is the exact same principle for entering into the subdensities of 3rd density. But the subdensities have *nothing to do* with harvest, which is related to crossing density boundaries. As far as I know, and as I've said before, the vibrational understanding or subdensities have been identified by the 'core valuing systems' related in the system of Spiral Dynamics:
1 'Beige'
2 'Purple'
3 'Red'
4 'Blue'
5 'Orange'
6 'Green'
7 'Yellow' - last subdensity

'adept' values:
8 'Turquoise'
9 'Coral'

there wasnt any 'emphasizing' of any different meaning for incarnate in that q/a. if there was such a hidden meaning, it would be cleanly stated.

and, what i said and what you respond in latter part of your reply are not relevant :

i am saying that, if harvest was something that happened AFTER death, there would be no need to send any light being to any entity, because entities would readily meet their higher selves, and the information that needed to be given would be given to them much effectively.

actually, there wouldnt even be a need for such information giving, and they would just be harvested as they die, approaching harvesters and getting measured.

in that respect, your approach of 'harvest is something happens after death' does not hold. there is no need to send any light beings to any entities who already penetrated ether after death - they are already in contact with the closest and most native information source they can contact at that point ; their higher selves.

[zenmaster]

All of the subdensities are available and active once a density has been activated. A subdensity is just a position of 'light' within a density.

17.34 Questioner: Then if an entity is harvested into the fourth density with a grade of fifty-one percent for others and forty-nine percent for self, what level of the fourth density would he go into? I am assuming that there are different levels of the fourth density.

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Each enters that sub-density which vibrates in accordance with the entity’s understanding.

vibrations are available. experiences are not.

for you to experience a 3d or 4d sub-octave experience proper for you, a sphere that provides that vibration needs to exist, complete with its participants. meaning, other entities.

for example, when the 3rd density on this planet becomes vacant after a period of time, there will still be all vibrations of all sub octaves, but you wont be able to experience anything here, if you attempt to incarnate here - there are no other 3d entities.

and, when a new cycle is started here, you wont be able to experience last octave of 3rd density, if the entities who started this cycle are of lower sub-densities.

they will still be living in early 3d vibrations, therefore they wont be able to provide interactions and experiences of the kind you require in your higher sub-density.

basically imagine yourself at the start of this planet's cycle, in primitive conditions - you will only be exposed to at most 50-100 people (if your tribe is that big), everything in your life will be extremely simple, and everything regarding interaction of entities will be basic ranging from social relationships to communications to anything.

so, you would be (maybe) vibrating in the last octave of the yellow, supplied by the vibration of the planet, but, you wouldnt be able to do anything with it, because there wouldnt be any meaningful recipient of your interactions.

I agree, there would be no meaningful experience of valuing in isolation.

I would emphasize 'incarnate' in a different manner. They were all together, right there, at the same time, as a group, while incarnate.

---

This is the exact same principle for entering into the subdensities of 3rd density. But the subdensities have *nothing to do* with harvest, which is related to crossing density boundaries. As far as I know, and as I've said before, the vibrational understanding or subdensities have been identified by the 'core valuing systems' related in the system of Spiral Dynamics:
1 'Beige'
2 'Purple'
3 'Red'
4 'Blue'
5 'Orange'
6 'Green'
7 'Yellow' - last subdensity

'adept' values:
8 'Turquoise'
9 'Coral'

there wasnt any 'emphasizing' of any different meaning for incarnate in that q/a. if there was such a hidden meaning, it would be cleanly stated.

and, what i said and what you respond in latter part of your reply are not relevant :

i am saying that, if harvest was something that happened AFTER death, there would be no need to send any light being to any entity, because entities would readily meet their higher selves, and the information that needed to be given would be given to them much effectively.

That necessarily presupposes that the higher self is self-sufficient in complete and utter isolation, without the benefit of information from other selves.

actually, there wouldnt even be a need for such information giving, and they would just be harvested as they die, approaching harvesters and getting measured.

The logos determines 'measurement'. That's automatic. The harvesters ensure that confusion does not prevent accurate measurement.

in that respect, your approach of 'harvest is something happens after death' does not hold.

Still makes sense, as far as I can tell.

there is no need to send any light beings to any entities who already penetrated ether after death - they are already in contact with the closest and most native information source they can contact at that point ; their higher selves.

Before death, one is in contact with their higher self. Not sure what your point is. If the higher self 'knew everything', there would be no point in other selves. While incarnate, people tend to work together as a group, they don't tend to die as a group. The light being contacted the group to provide information relevant to the next incarnation. The 'higher self' doesn't magically get this info from virtue of being the 'higher self'.

[Ens Entium]

In regards to higher self, i noticed this.

...the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light.

So it seems there'd be no need for the confederation entities if those to undergo harvest could readily and without fail contact their higher self.

Also, about the exchange from q/a 22.11 on, the visit may have occured in s/t and they may have become desirous in s/t of staying, but none of it says that the choice wasn't made after death. The word 'became' stood out for me in that it indicates that the choice was not made immediately after the revelations they were given, i.e. during the visit of the light being but rather that the desire culminating in that choice built up throughout the remainder of the incarnation.

In fact i think the visit was made in s/t since
1. The confederation could foresee the positive effect those 150 would have and were doing the job of encouraging positive polarization, whereas in incarnational planning the confederation is not in a position to affect choices.
2. Related to 1. They wanted to have the remainder of the incarnation to be a validation of what the light being revealed about the plight of the planetary social complex. So the disposition would be reinforced and the choice cemented.

I think we all agree this happens in t/s- phenomena like 'steps of light' cannot happen in 3rd density space/time. The question becomes, what time/space environment is available to 3rd density entities?

Thoughts i would put forward to this would be that, things like the steps of light, angels, confederation entities, etc represent experiences and things that can interfere with the free will of 3d entities, or 'unconfuse' them, in a manner of speaking, breaking the law of confusion, since 3d may not necessarily be aware of such things. I think this is especially true if "all are harvested" like at the end of the last cycle- were you expected some entities not to make it.

So then you ask.. when and in what environment could such full exposure take place- answer, in the free and open environment of time/space in between incarnations, where entities regularly encounter guides and angels and metaphysical phenomena.

One last, slightly humorous point is, consider little jack, who turns .. whatever, 6 months on 28 october 2011, with two full 3d parents, now little jack is dual activated so he's okay, but what happens if this were a sudden space/time thing..? Boom.. his parents just 'go away'?

[zenmaster]

I have never seen the universe work in a way that didn't make sense. The whole 'kill them off' through radiant power of 4D thing, and so forth. It's a laugh.

[unity100]

That necessarily presupposes that the higher self is self-sufficient in complete and utter isolation, without the benefit of information from other selves.

higher self is a phenomenon that is mid-6th density, which privy to parallel existences and choices of the entity in the past (from what we can make out from the material) and it is indeed self-sufficient in tending the 3d entity on its own, since it is the higher self of the 3d entity.

and, for 6d, there is no 'complete and utter isolation'. each 6d entity is a member of a society complex.

what you are trying to has no basis, as you are probably already aware. you are saying that higher self, which is part of a society complex in 6d already, can tend and program an entire 3d experience of its former self, but, 'sending a light being that carries a shield of light' to entities to be harvested, (en masse too - not one to each) is necessary to convey a simple choice like 'do you want to get harvested, see, there's this, theres that, and that, or you want to stay ?', in DISINCARNATE state.

it is exceedingly illogical to propose that.

The logos determines 'measurement'. That's automatic. The harvesters ensure that confusion does not prevent accurate measurement.

no. logos doesnt determine measurement. ra says that harvesters from next octave emit precise and pure disseminations light, in order to assess the progress of each entity in fullest. you should check that part again.

Still makes sense, as far as I can tell.

doesnt. not only leaving aside there is no pointers to any 'after death harvest' proposition anywhere in Ra material, but also there is the evidence to the contrary, like what i have mentioned above.

Before death, one is in contact with their higher self. Not sure what your point is.

before death, people are not in contact with their higher selves in 3d. i dont know from where do you even conclude this. had they been in contact, there would be no need to build pyramids and whatever to initiate entities to get in contact with their inner resources like higher self (which is a phenomenon in 6th density btw - the very chakra energy the pyramids target) nor any effort for spiritual practice to raise awareness of that self.

nor there would be any need to meet with higher self after incarnation, to revise the life and decide on a plan.

If the higher self 'knew everything', there would be no point in other selves.

yes, the higher self, knows everything in regard to past up to the point the 6d entity is at, and even further. this includes the entire development of the entity from 3, to 6th, since that entity, is THAT entity itself, all the roads passed all the choices made. moreover, the higher self also is privy to all past, since it is at a point which is not subject to time, as the situation with tape recorder incident in Ra material showed. the higher self is also aware of all other potential choices and their consequences, of not only its own past self, but also other things, like how Ra reviewed potential happenings of harvest, pole shift, etc whatever, and told the most likely ones, for THIS planet. most likely means, there are other ones, like what edgar cayce told about, which were also mentioned.

you also forgot what the higher self phenomenon is, it seems - higher self is a phenomenon which occurs when the future 7d totality of the entity (the higher self, the 3d entity), leaves ALL potentials and possibilities that can happen, all the entity can be, all that is learned and discovered (which also includes parallel existences of the entity in parallel universes, as Ra mentions in a passing note in balance of 7d entities q/as), as a resource to the 6d entity.

this is the higher self phenomenon.

yes, it knows everything that is possible in regard to the 3d entity and its choices, including whatever 4d planet it may/should/had lived on after its harvest. not to mention, when and how the entity got harvested.

The light being contacted the group to provide information relevant to the next incarnation.

there is no closer phenomenon than a higher self, to the 3d entity. to a disincarnate entity reviewing its incarnation, no external messenger is required for ANYthing. since :

The 'higher self' doesn't magically get this info from virtue of being the 'higher self'.

yes it actually magically does receive ALL possibilities as a phenomenon, actually, as a very sum of identity that not only the 3d entity itself, but also the entire development path of their own existence until end of 7d, from their late 7d manifestation, as a last act before the entity returns to the wholeness of existence.

I think we all agree this happens in t/s- phenomena like 'steps of light' cannot happen in 3rd density space/time. The question becomes, what time/space environment is available to 3rd density entities?

there is no steps of light or anything necessary for 4d harvest. 4d harvest, is about enjoying a certain amount of light. this is 51% for positive. and, moreover, we are told that opening the gateway to intelligent infinity during incarnation, is ticket to next octave of experience.

this means, opening this gateway can happen both in incarnate form, and in disincarnate form. which, will probably happen with the exact disseminations of light the harvesters will emit.

and, the entities of confederation will stand guard near, so that the entity will not get distracted and confused by anything, but the light's strength.

that is pretty much a description of opening of gateway to infinite intelligence, which some people work and manage during their incarnation.

Thoughts i would put forward to this would be that, things like the steps of light, angels, confederation entities, etc represent experiences and things that can interfere with the free will of 3d entities, or 'unconfuse' them, in a manner of speaking, breaking the law of confusion, since 3d may not necessarily be aware of such things. I think this is especially true if "all are harvested" like at the end of the last cycle- were you expected some entities not to make it.

come harvest, all these things become moot. there is 4d harvest, there will be a 4d sphere, there will be 4d phenomenon, and any entity, even temporarily vibrating in 4d vibrations will penetrate ether and see things.

that is probably one of the reasons why the 4d entities need time without 3d to learn to hide themselves from 3d entities.

One last, slightly humorous point is, consider little jack, who turns .. whatever, 6 months on 28 october 2011, with two full 3d parents, now little jack is dual activated so he's okay, but what happens if this were a sudden space/time thing..? Boom.. his parents just 'go away'?

little jack, has incarnated with full knowledge of whatever is going to happen. maybe, probably because if that very happenstance.

I have never seen the universe work in a way that didn't make sense. The whole 'kill them off' through radiant power of 4D thing, and so forth. It's a laugh.

harvesters will provide disseminations of frequencies in amounts that will allow opening of the gateway to intelligent infinity. so, the 'radiant power of 4d' seems rather a low level definition for that.

and, what did you think '4d entities need time without 3d to learn to hide themselves from 3d' meant ?

it sounds to me like when harvest happens, in normal harvests, 3d is depopulated, so that 4d entities can learn hiding themselves until new cycles start.

really, as we speak, it more sounds like you are uncomfortable with the idea of death, more than anything else.

and, sense ? didnt Ra mention that, the choice of whatever body to use for whatever purpose, is a moment's choice by the local logos ? and, werent martian entities brought in cloned, but non-reproduceable bodies, from mars ? should i go on ?

[3DMonkey]

There is a harvest. "the harvest is now" (198?). "the harvest will OCCUR in 2011". Obviously it was "occuring" in the eighties as well.

....
Something to contemplate about the "light being": the shield of light. We walk into the light until we stop.

There isn't any reason to rule out the possibility that the light being that was sent was not a part of the group's higher self.

[spero]

Still makes sense, as far as I can tell.

doesnt. not only leaving aside there is no pointers to any 'after death harvest' proposition anywhere in Ra material, but also there is the evidence to the contrary, like what i have mentioned above.

I think the below basically states harvest occurs outside of incarnation or after death.

48.6
...Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.

I think we all agree this happens in t/s- phenomena like 'steps of light' cannot happen in 3rd density space/time. The question becomes, what time/space environment is available to 3rd density entities?

there is no steps of light or anything necessary for 4d harvest. 4d harvest, is about enjoying a certain amount of light. this is 51% for positive. and, moreover, we are told that opening the gateway to intelligent infinity during incarnation, is ticket to next octave of experience.

this means, opening this gateway can happen both in incarnate form, and in disincarnate form. which, will probably happen with the exact disseminations of light the harvesters will emit.

Even negatively polarized entities such as Rasputin and Ghengis Khan who were able to be harvested earlier in a cycle due to their penetration of intelligent infinity, didn't ascend in a flash of glory mid-way through their incarnation...they died (something which i'm sure was well documented) and then were harvested.

[Raman]

Still makes sense, as far as I can tell.

doesnt. not only leaving aside there is no pointers to any 'after death harvest' proposition anywhere in Ra material, but also there is the evidence to the contrary, like what i have mentioned above.

I think the below basically states harvest occurs outside of incarnation or after death.

48.6
...Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.

I think we all agree this happens in t/s- phenomena like 'steps of light' cannot happen in 3rd density space/time. The question becomes, what time/space environment is available to 3rd density entities?

there is no steps of light or anything necessary for 4d harvest. 4d harvest, is about enjoying a certain amount of light. this is 51% for positive. and, moreover, we are told that opening the gateway to intelligent infinity during incarnation, is ticket to next octave of experience.

this means, opening this gateway can happen both in incarnate form, and in disincarnate form. which, will probably happen with the exact disseminations of light the harvesters will emit.

Even negatively polarized entities such as Rasputin and Ghengis Khan who were able to be harvested earlier in a cycle due to their penetration of intelligent infinity, didn't ascend in a flash of glory mid-way through their incarnation...they died (something which i'm sure was well documented) and then were harvested.

Again, dual activated have been harvested already.

The question here is that if harvestable 3d's at end of the cycle could be given a choice like the 150 in south america. And honestly, it could be less than 150...

---

I have never seen the universe work in a way that didn't make sense. The whole 'kill them off' through radiant power of 4D thing, and so forth. It's a laugh.

No. It will just give 3d's a perfect tan so they can appreciate how good 4d could be...

---

One last, slightly humorous point is, consider little jack, who turns .. whatever, 6 months on 28 october 2011, with two full 3d parents, now little jack is dual activated so he's okay, but what happens if this were a sudden space/time thing..? Boom.. his parents just 'go away'?

There should be a dissolution of the family as we know it, since 4d is after all the start of social memory complex. This means, that people should take care of of children etc as a group, providing all care necessary.