A puzzling question of Infinity.

[LsavedSmeD]

The first known thing in creation is infinity - according to Ra.


The next step is Infinity becoming aware.


This step which is the threshold to the desire of the Infinite One to experience itself is the step which I cannot grasp.


How does something without awareness become aware? What caused this awareness? Is it because of the Infinite possibilities? Is awareness bound to happen eventually in Infinity?

This question is quite puzzling and I'd like to hear some of my brothers/sisters perspectives on such a paradox.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Just some personal thoughts on the question.

As you pointed out, within infinity lie infinite possibilities, which means the contrast of every single thing must exist somewhere within infinity as well. So, per the nature of infinite, unawareness cannot exist without awareness, and vice versa.

I think to view it in linear terms is easy for us since we're trapped within linear time, but not necessarily accurate. Saying it was unaware and then aware would constrict infinity into linear time, which I can only assume is a box which infinity won't fit into.

[3DMonkey]

Aware/unaware. Not Proven/disproven.

It is not available to grasp, and we are asked to reach for it.

[turtledude23]

I think all paradoxes can be resolved by knowing that there exists simultaneously a space/time universe full of restrictions and experience, and an infinite omniverse or metaverse which is a completely uniform and infinite.

[unity100]

The first known thing in creation is infinity - according to Ra.


The next step is Infinity becoming aware.


This step which is the threshold to the desire of the Infinite One to experience itself is the step which I cannot grasp.


How does something without awareness become aware? What caused this awareness? Is it because of the Infinite possibilities? Is awareness bound to happen eventually in Infinity?

imagine an infinitely still sea. there is no motion, no differentiation. there is no energy. it cant do nothing.

now imagine that, that still sea becomes stirred, and waves result for some reason. now the sea is differentiated through the interaction of waves, and because there are waves, it has potential - waves carry energy. or, in another sense, differentiation that the waves create, creates a possibility of storing/processing information. in fact, the very differentiation these infinite waviness creates, is a 'state', a kind of information in itself.

and at that point, there is infinite intelligence. it is aware, because it has potential now, through the waves.

and any given focus that generates waves, becomes a 'creator' using the energy/waves of infinite intelligence.

[3DMonkey]

The first known thing in creation is infinity - according to Ra.


The next step is Infinity becoming aware.


This step which is the threshold to the desire of the Infinite One to experience itself is the step which I cannot grasp.


How does something without awareness become aware? What caused this awareness? Is it because of the Infinite possibilities? Is awareness bound to happen eventually in Infinity?

imagine an infinitely still sea. there is no motion, no differentiation. there is no energy. it cant do nothing.

now imagine that, that still sea becomes stirred, and waves result for some reason. now the sea is differentiated through the interaction of waves, and because there are waves, it has potential - waves carry energy. or, in another sense, differentiation that the waves create, creates a possibility of storing/processing information. in fact, the very differentiation these infinite waviness creates, is a 'state', a kind of information in itself.

and at that point, there is infinite intelligence. it is aware, because it has potential now, through the waves.

and any given focus that generates waves, becomes a 'creator' using the energy/waves of infinite intelligence.

I recall reading this analogy in the divinecosmos forum. Is there an original source for this analogy that I am unaware of?

[Bring4th_Austin]

The first known thing in creation is infinity - according to Ra.


The next step is Infinity becoming aware.


This step which is the threshold to the desire of the Infinite One to experience itself is the step which I cannot grasp.


How does something without awareness become aware? What caused this awareness? Is it because of the Infinite possibilities? Is awareness bound to happen eventually in Infinity?

imagine an infinitely still sea. there is no motion, no differentiation. there is no energy. it cant do nothing.

now imagine that, that still sea becomes stirred, and waves result for some reason.

The question is, what is that reason?

[unity100]

The first known thing in creation is infinity - according to Ra.


The next step is Infinity becoming aware.


This step which is the threshold to the desire of the Infinite One to experience itself is the step which I cannot grasp.


How does something without awareness become aware? What caused this awareness? Is it because of the Infinite possibilities? Is awareness bound to happen eventually in Infinity?

imagine an infinitely still sea. there is no motion, no differentiation. there is no energy. it cant do nothing.

now imagine that, that still sea becomes stirred, and waves result for some reason.

The question is, what is that reason?

there is no reason. it was always like that. if you could look at the stages of existence from 'outside', you would see it in levels, reaching up to infinity.

at point intelligent infinity, you see that infinity apparently separates into two counterparts. whatever counterpart infinite intelligence has, i dont know.

and from that point downwards, the existence increasingly separates.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[unity100]

it didnt happen simultaneously. it happened/happening/will happen.

these all states that exist in different points of existence. they are not relevant to 'time', because, they are states that are based on combinations of space and time both.

[LsavedSmeD]

These are all very well rounded answers how ever none of them explain the reasoning of "how" Infinity became aware or why. What was the moment or reasoning for that awareness coming to the Infinite One. If there is a still see what caused that still sea to begin to stir. There was stillness before there was a sea, what stirred that stillness up?


This is where I cannot comprehend this signficant point, what stirred the stillness into an ocean.

I understand the after effects after Infinity became "aware" but I do not understand what caused the awareness to arise.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[LsavedSmeD]

From the view of Infinite wouldn't it all be simultaneous? I mean that in the manner of the simultaneous functions of the body. The past must exist so that the future can exist, the present is the fragile center point which is the point of "reflection". It is through the entity experience that the future and past reflect in to the one present.

What stirred the stillness? How about itself? Perhaps it appeared to itself and stirred itself, thus setting the motion for its own journey back to the initial point whereby it self awakened, the experience of "finding the Creator" being the actual playing out of its own instantaneous experience? We have to think of what time and space really are, time is just the moment, ALL measurements are relative, there is no measurement in the Point. We have a moment and movement within that moment. From a question of time, I would ask if time is relative to awareness of movement? Time and space are, afterall, just english words we use to describe a concept. The measurements and pre-conceptions we have are mostly distortions.

Yes, Ra states the "beginning" of creation in a linear manner but really it is of an eternal present or immediate happening simultaneously. But the beginning of this awareness is confusing and I am distorted in my perspective. Infinity must have had to ALWAYS been aware, if this was the case.

[Bring4th_Austin]

The first known thing in creation is infinity - according to Ra.


The next step is Infinity becoming aware.


This step which is the threshold to the desire of the Infinite One to experience itself is the step which I cannot grasp.


How does something without awareness become aware? What caused this awareness? Is it because of the Infinite possibilities? Is awareness bound to happen eventually in Infinity?

imagine an infinitely still sea. there is no motion, no differentiation. there is no energy. it cant do nothing.

now imagine that, that still sea becomes stirred, and waves result for some reason.

The question is, what is that reason?

there is no reason. it was always like that. if you could look at the stages of existence from 'outside', you would see it in levels, reaching up to infinity.

at point intelligent infinity, you see that infinity apparently separates into two counterparts. whatever counterpart infinite intelligence has, i dont know.

and from that point downwards, the existence increasingly separates.

That is understood, but in your analogy, the sea was not "always like that." First it was still, and then there was motion. The sea analogy projects a linear timeline on this awareness. I understand if you were using it as an over-simplification to explain a basically unexplainable topic, but the heart of the topic is, "what caused the motion in the sea?" Does the question force us to abandon this analogy?

Yes, Ra states the "beginning" of creation in a linear manner but really it is of an eternal present or immediate happening simultaneously. But the beginning of this awareness is confusing and I am distorted in my perspective. Infinity must have had to ALWAYS been aware, if this was the case.

From that point of view, perhaps an equally valid and perplexing question would be, "what caused unawareness?"

[3DMonkey]

These are all very well rounded answers how ever none of them explain the reasoning of "how" Infinity became aware or why. What was the moment or reasoning for that awareness coming to the Infinite One. If there is a still see what caused that still sea to begin to stir. There was stillness before there was a sea, what stirred that stillness up?


This is where I cannot comprehend this signficant point, what stirred the stillness into an ocean.

I understand the after effects after Infinity became "aware" but I do not understand what caused the awareness to arise.

Awareness could have been a hook that snagged infinity and they got tangled.

With infinity, it isn't necessary to imagine vast darkness. It can be used to describe a single thought of one's own. It didn't exist, and then it does exist. Same thing. Each moment, each cell in your body was unaware-infinity one second ago.
Does that help? Probably not

[Unbound]

I think this is relevant?

"Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?

Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack of free will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced."

---

"Questioner: In other words you are saying that originally the Logoi that did not choose this free will path did not choose it simply because they had not conceived of it and that later Logoi, extending the first distortion farther down through their evolution, experienced it as an outcropping or growth from that extension of the first distortion. Am I correct in saying that?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes."

No awareness until it was thought of?

[LsavedSmeD]

An interesting aspect that I found to have some congruency to this thread is existence and non existence.


There is no such thing as "non-existence" in a reality of existence. For example, you will not cease to exist because you as an entity, an essence of existence, cannot ever be anything other than existence. If you were somehow of non-existence you would never exist to begin with. This would mean that Awareness did not just "pop" into existence it's already there. Just in potentiation - merely up to the observer to acknowledge awareness.


But what causes such an acknowledgement is far beyond my rational mind to comprehend, all I can do is wonder in awe at such a precise and beautiful moment realizing such awareness must be.

[3DMonkey]

Randomness. Wherever they met-> here we are.

[Unbound]

I can't get the thought of Chaos out of my head, it must play a role.

---

Questioner: Thank you. I am going to go back to an earlier time, if you could call it that, in evolution to try to establish a very fundamental base for some of the concepts that seem to be the foundation of everything that we experience so that we can more fully examine the basis of our evolution.

I am guessing that in our Milky Way Galaxy (the major galaxy with billions of stars) that the progress of evolution was from the center outward toward the rim and that in the early evolution of this galaxy the first distortion was not extended down past the sub-Logos simply because it was not thought of or conceived of and that this extension of the first distortion, which created polarization, was something that occurred in what we would call a later time as the evolution progressed outward from the center of the galaxy. Am I in any way correct in this statement?

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct.

Questioner: We have the first, second, and third distortions of the Law of One as free will, love, and light. Am I correct in assuming that the central core of this major galaxy began to form with the third distortion? Was that the origin of our Milky Way Galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. In the most basic or teleological sense you are incorrect as the One Infinite Creator is all that there is. In an undistorted seed-form you are correct in seeing the first manifestation visible to the eye of the body complex which you inhabit as the third distortion, light, or to use a technical term, limitless light.

Questioner: I realize that we are on very difficult ground, you might say, for precise terminology. It is totally displaced from our system of coordinates for evaluation in our present system of language.

These early Logoi that formed in the center of the galaxy wished, I assume, to create a system of experience for the One Creator. Did they then start with no previous experience or information about how to do this? This is difficult to ask.

Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation, we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

These tools were of three kinds. Firstly, there was an awareness of the efficiency for experience of mind, body, and spirit. Secondly, there was an awareness of the most efficacious nature or, if you will, significator of mind, body, and spirit. Thirdly, there was the awareness of two aspects of mind, of body, and of spirit that the significator could use to balance all catalyst. You may call these two the matrix and the potentiator.

Especially of note is that the third step is experiencing the self, and the manifestation is light, you must be able to have a sense to experience, no? Also, it seems as though at the end of the previous those before just kind of have to start over with a new kind of puzzle. What a fascinating game!

[native]

This same debate was going on 2 weeks ago here http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...536&page=4

On the last page I expressed some similar thoughts, Lsaved. I ended by saying I would create a response, which I have been working on. I have a long-winded answer centering around the present moment, but I have my doubts about its validity so I won't post it yet as I continually change it.

It was proposed that infinity contains both awareness, and unawareness..the idea that infinity must contain everything and its opposite. I agree that infinity must contain all, but I don't think it contains awareness and unawareness. I think this is an over-analytical answer that is illogical. It certainly can't be stated as fact. It is only a theoretical assumption that I don't agree with. There would be no reason for any work to be carried out and would remain in that state forever.

actually, infinity is separate from all concepts that exist. since, nothing can interact with infinity. it is totally null, in balance, therefore, impossible to interact with.

we are interacting with infinite intelligence, which is the direct subset of infinity. and, infinite intelligence is going towards infinity, over infinite amount of 'experiences'.

This quote above is from the other thread. Infinity is most definitely being "interacted" with though. What's being overlooked in the above statement is that in between infinity and infinite intelligence is awareness. Ra says that infinity became aware, THEN this awareness was focused into infinite intelligence which is where the work takes place.

How can anything move forward out from infinity if it's impossible to interact with? Infinity remains only as a source, but there is a direct channel, a communication going on and it is through its own awareness that makes this possible.

Well there is infinity, and the central sun. These two seem to always exist from that point forward, as everything periodically coalesces into the central sun and free will once again lays in potential.

The question that is being asked in the thread, is what exactly makes infinity gain awareness? I think we can only speculate and our answers will only be guesses.

It's illogical to say the following, given that the explanation Ra gave us was explained linearly.....the finites wouldn't exist yet, but there may be some crazy mysteriousness happening where the finites from the future influence infinity into awareness so they can be manifested.

There may be some kind of potential from the finites that calls infinity to express itself.

[native]

The more I consider the above, I think this is very possible.

The only way a finite can be experienced is by way of the present moment, which is what I have been thinking about and writing about for the past few weeks. I think it's possible that awareness isn't some sort of mysterious action, but it is the natural result of infinity being influenced by its finities.

For the sake of simplicity, let's just say that within infinty there are only 3 finites. There is the potential that from A, either B or C is the result. However, B and C can't exist without A, so there is a connection that exists between them. This connection is manifested as awareness of potential and so it is inevitable that awareness will come into being.

I think it's possible, that for Ra to give a working concept, they had to state that everything comes from infinity and that the infinity is creation. I think they purposely leave some confusion there to be sought. Because if infinity forever remains unaware, there is no need for it to ever come into being. I would visualize it as awareness being moved to the surface of infinity, kind of like a charge that gathers on it, and from there infinity can be focused outward from it.

So we naturally want to separate the experiencing of the finites as being separate from infinity, and that awareness is some mysterious event that occurred for no reason. I don't think this is true. Nothing is separate. I think there is a cycle of completion wherein infinity, awareness, and the finites that make up infinity obviously depend on each other to allow everything to exist. However, for a frame of reference it is simply stated that everything comes from infinity, even though awareness and the potential of the finites are just as important.

In this way, I guess I would take back my earlier thought process and say that within infinity, potential awareness and nothingness does exist, but not in the sense that infinity is forever a void that is always separate which is what was being debated in the other thread. Infinity contains all. The infinity is the creation.

There has to be more than one of something so that each has a unique identity, and they have to be connected somehow because they are dependent on each other for variation to exist. Not only do we have more than one of something, there is an infinity of them. These apparent connections stimulate infinity to move into a state of awareness..they call awareness into being.

So the creation exists as a cycle of completion, and while it is correct to describe the manifestations in a linear fashion, it helps to view the importance of the finites influence on each other.

[unity100]

These are all very well rounded answers how ever none of them explain the reasoning of "how" Infinity became aware or why. What was the moment or reasoning for that awareness coming to the Infinite One. If there is a still see what caused that still sea to begin to stir. There was stillness before there was a sea, what stirred that stillness up?

it did not happen. it is a state of existence, ever present at that continuum. right below infinity, there is that continuum, everexisting.

right below infinite intelligence, there is the first central sun, the first ever logos. and so it goes.

very probably, the sea has been stirred by separation of two polarities. the early stages of this stirring, or, one of the polarities, is infinite intelligence.

From the view of Infinite wouldn't it all be simultaneous? I mean that in the manner of the simultaneous functions of the body. The past must exist so that the future can exist, the present is the fragile center point which is the point of "reflection". It is through the entity experience that the future and past reflect in to the one present.

simultaneous is also a concept that is part of infinity, just like its opposite. however, for explanation we can take it that way. in fact, there is no simultaneity - its like different stages of being in different points. all points exist forever, if the perceptive focus of consciousness looks at them one by one.

this is also a reason how entities from later octaves, can come visit this one.

That is understood, but in your analogy, the sea was not "always like that." First it was still, and then there was motion. The sea analogy projects a linear timeline on this awareness. I understand if you were using it as an over-simplification to explain a basically unexplainable topic, but the heart of the topic is, "what caused the motion in the sea?" Does the question force us to abandon this analogy?

sea is still like that. at the point infinity, it is perfectly still. at point infinite intelligence, it is wavy. go down and down, you find us at a certain point.

if you were able to detach you consciousness, somehow, and go to point infinite intelligence, you would see that it was 'stirred', 'now'. but, that 'now' is meaningless there, since it is a state of being/not being, and not relevant to our time directly.

you would see that infinite intelligence was wavy, BEFORE and AFTER all these (what we are living) had had happened, right at that point in time.

and when you went downwards to states of being that is our existential vicinity, you would find us, being as we are, at this point in time.

From that point of view, perhaps an equally valid and perplexing question would be, "what caused unawareness?"

nothing causes it. awareness and unawareness are opposite and complementary parts of infinity.

I think this is relevant?

"Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?

Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack of free will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced."

---

"Questioner: In other words you are saying that originally the Logoi that did not choose this free will path did not choose it simply because they had not conceived of it and that later Logoi, extending the first distortion farther down through their evolution, experienced it as an outcropping or growth from that extension of the first distortion. Am I correct in saying that?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes."

No awareness until it was thought of?

that is not relevant. that pertains to our local focus as consciousness. and with 'our' local focus, i dont mean you and me, but ALL of us who are participating in this creation. we, as focus, did not know these before this point of being. however, we have passed that state of being in this creation, and now, we are in a state of being which includes those and enhanced by it. this will go on infinitely until we reach infinity.

An interesting aspect that I found to have some congruency to this thread is existence and non existence.


There is no such thing as "non-existence" in a reality of existence. For example, you will not cease to exist because you as an entity, an essence of existence, cannot ever be anything other than existence. If you were somehow of non-existence you would never exist to begin with. This would mean that Awareness did not just "pop" into existence it's already there. Just in potentiation - merely up to the observer to acknowledge awareness.


But what causes such an acknowledgement is far beyond my rational mind to comprehend, all I can do is wonder in awe at such a precise and beautiful moment realizing such awareness must be.

what you call 'entity' is something that has only come into being with the discovery of the concept 'finite'. and if existence is the definition of this, then, yes, there is nonexistence.

and if went to state of infinite intelligence, and infinite intelligence is defined as existing, then it means, it did not exist before this point, since there was only infinity.

to complement it to infinity, there has to be something to complement it.

in the case of infinity, the concept 'existence' becomes just a concept among infinity. for its balancing, a concept balancing it out must exist. and if existence is defined as such, the complementary opposite of it could be defined as non-existence.

nothing is valid at point infinity. they are all complemented by their counterparts.

It was proposed that infinity contains both awareness, and unawareness..the idea that infinity must contain everything and its opposite. I agree that infinity must contain all, but I don't think it contains awareness and unawareness. I think this is an over-analytical answer that is illogical. It certainly can't be stated as fact. It is only a theoretical assumption that I don't agree with. There would be no reason for any work to be carried out and would remain in that state forever.

if infinity did not contain ANYthing, then it wouldnt be infinite.

anything you can think of, has to be found in infinity. else, its infinite no more.

This quote above is from the other thread. Infinity is most definitely being "interacted" with though. What's being overlooked in the above statement is that in between infinity and infinite intelligence is awareness. Ra says that infinity became aware, THEN this awareness was focused into infinite intelligence which is where the work takes place.

the proposal contradicts itself - interaction, is another state of existence, a concept, that exists. it is only possible by existence. and further, the definition of interact, implies cause effect relationships, because else there wouldnt be any interaction in between anything.

so, interaction is also a concept which starts below infinity, with infinite intelligence.

How can anything move forward out from infinity if it's impossible to interact with? Infinity remains only as a source, but there is a direct channel, a communication going on and it is through its own awareness that makes this possible.

because it didnt move forward out of infinity. it is a separation of infinity into two concepts, one being itself, and the other being its opposite. it is a state of infinity, below infinity. we call it infinite intelligence.

infinity is impossible to interact with, because it includes all the interactions and their counterparts in complement. therefore, its effect is null.

moreover, naturally, it is at a point in existence that is above this separation of infinite intelligence, and its counterpart. therefore, the concept we describe as 'interaction', remains below it, in the state of matters at infinite intelligence or lower.

Well there is infinity, and the central sun. These two seem to always exist from that point forward, as everything periodically coalesces into the central sun and free will once again lays in potential.

central sun is the first logos that is below infinite intelligence. at infinite intelligence, that central sun spread out and coalesced infinitely, and now there exists infinite intelligence.

at point infinity, all these are null and void, and they are all true.

It's illogical to say the following, given that the explanation Ra gave us was explained linearly.....the finites wouldn't exist yet, but there may be some crazy mysteriousness happening where the finites from the future influence infinity into awareness so they can be manifested.

ra explained a lot of timeless concepts, linearly.

as i mentioned, if you go to point infinity, you will find infinite intelligence coming into being in stages below it. at that point, all what you speak of, finites being discovered, creations being created, are going to happen, and is happening, and will happen. infinite intelligence, is the full result, AND the origin of all these.

point above infinite intelligence, there is infinity, still, and the state of existence and nonexistence, and all other dualities, are at complete balance, and the concept balance is also in complete balance with its counterpart, total imbalance or chaos, and therefore, there is mysterious and infinite infinity.

go down, and you will see existence/nonexistence separate and branch out. go up, and you will see they combine and harmonize.

In this way, I guess I would take back my earlier thought process and say that within infinity, potential awareness and nothingness does exist, but not in the sense that infinity is forever a void that is always separate which is what was being debated in the other thread. Infinity contains all. The infinity is the creation.

the above argument fails at the point that, for infinity to be infinite, it has to NOT be a void, and be a void at the same time. infinity, also, has to contain all, and not contain anything, at the same time.

but infinity isnt the creation - creation is infinite, neverending, but, infinity is not the creation. it is also the creation, but there are infinite mysteries inside it, and creation is only a part of infinity.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[native]

but infinity isnt the creation - creation is infinite, neverending, but, infinity is not the creation. it is also the creation, but there are infinite mysteries inside it, and creation is only a part of infinity.

I simply disagree with you. I have laid out my viewpoints clearly enough, so I won't continue point for point.

Ra has said "The infinity is creation." Are you contradicting Ra? You seem to only agree partly.

I think you are trying to make the point that infinity is only a source, which I agree with to an extent. But we are the expression of infinity as an aware concept. I believe that awareness or potential awareness shifts to the surface of infinity, if you will, so that everything can hinge on this awareness and focus into infinite intelligence, and at that level, this is where the manifestation occurs.

Ra said that "Infinity became aware." Whether or not there is "space" in between infinity and its awareness, is simply not knowable I suppose.

I'm not disagreeing with you that infinite intelligence is where the manifestation of infinity occurs. Infinity's awareness of itself focused into infinity intelligence. I just think there is more of a direct channel, instead of separateness. I'm not sure it even matters! We agree on the main points.

[Monica]

There are a couple of old threads in which the concept of infinity was hased out quite extensively.

Anyone remember which threads they were? I'd like to link them.

[native]

I will read them if they can be linked to, but it is also helpful to go through the process of exercising our thoughts, instead of simply reading another's!

[unity100]

Ra has said "The infinity is creation." Are you contradicting Ra? You seem to only agree partly.

ra also has said 'you are infinity', and then also has said 'we are only a tiny portion of the infinite creator'. there are those people who are claiming that they are everything, right now, at this moment, based on the former one, whereas totally forgetting the latter one.

similarly, ra says 'infinity is creation', but then also tell the below :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#7

the creator, which creates, comes into being after infinite intelligence. if the creator comes into being after infinite intelligence, then how can the creation it creates comes to be infinity itself.

'before' (above) creation, there is infinite intelligence, and before that there is infinity.

you shouldnt confuse transmission of a concept through relaying a feeling/understanding like what Ra tries to convey in 'you are infinity' example, whereas saying that they are only a tiny portion of infinite creator in another. this is also the same.

I think you are trying to make the point that infinity is only a source, which I agree with to an extent. But we are the expression of infinity as an aware concept. I believe that awareness or potential awareness shifts to the surface of infinity, if you will, so that everything can hinge on this awareness and focus into infinite intelligence, and at that level, this is where the manifestation occurs.

'aware infinity' is infinite intelligence, per definition of Ra above. if awareness was a state describing of infinity, there wouldnt be an intelligent infinity.

infinity is not a source. infinity can best be described in silence. there is everything and their 'not's in infinity.

[qutote]I'm not disagreeing with you that infinite intelligence is where the manifestation of infinity occurs. Infinity's awareness of itself focused into infinity intelligence. I just think there is more of a direct channel, instead of separateness. I'm not sure it even matters! We agree on the main points. [/quote]

thats not correct with the precise definition we have :

13.6 Questioner: From this infinity then must come what we experience as creation. What was the next step or the next evolvement?

Ra: I am Ra. Infinity became aware. This was the next step.

Category: Cosmology

13.7 Questioner: After this, what came next?

Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

infinity becomes aware. this becomes infinite intelligence. this aware infinity, focuses infinity to infinite energy. this becomes, logos. the first sun.

so, still, the process all starts at infinite intelligence and below. not infinity.

[drifting pages]

They also say infinity is not proven, and how could it be proven ? if to prove something you need awareness to prove it's reality.

Again it all boil downs to perception and the moment that you are aware as and of.

[native]

Again..I'll repeat what I wrote above.."I'm not disagreeing with you that infinite intelligence is where the manifestation of infinity occurs."

...awareness led to...

Infinity --> Awareness --> Infinite Intelligence (where the magic happens). Two steps..awareness, then infinite intelligence. There is a vague awareness of itself which happens before it forms a functioning body able to perform work. So I maintain that infinity has a direct channel by way of awareness that was born from infinity.

And yes, infinity is a source, but you can call it silence if you'd like.

if the creator comes into being after infinite intelligence, then how can the creation it creates comes to be infinity itself.

The creation manifests infinities finites. We can only assume it will forever work towards manifesting infinity. Infinity, or Manifested Creation. Same thing. It is incorrect to say, because manifested infinity will never be complete by definition. But that is the silliness of infinity as a tangible manifested concept.

[unity100]

in all these considerations one thing to always remember is, whatever is being described below infinity, exists in infinity with its complementary counterpart.

your approaches seem to imply states and situations that were not possible before - like 'vague awareness being required before it forms a functioning body able to perform work' - however ALL these states, exist in infinity. and their counterparts. vague awareness was there before infinity becomes 'aware' in a lower level.