What would you do as a Logos?

[unity100]

First off, i'm totally on board with Austin here. All the 'problems that unity is bringing up are explained in the HH channel, and much of it completely resonates with the LOO material. Are there slight differences? Of course! It's a different channel, with a different experience within their framework. Just like no two humans are alike, I believe no two channels would be alike either.

'hidden hand', a source that identifies itself 'explaining' things, does not amount to zit.

the main question is someone can opt in to believe what a someone identifying itself as service to self says.

'heinrich himmler himself explained that .....'

'hidden hand has explained that .....'

there is no difference in between the above statements.

I'm sorry unity, but you speak as tho you hold some sort of authority over us all, and it bugs me. Let's be frank: we are speaking about channeled sources here, and you are upholding these texts so strictly that it is claustrophobic.

if you see referencing the material we are supposedly speaking on here, as ME having authority over you, this is your problem.

the text is strict ? why yes it is - since it explains things that pertain to nature of how things were created to work in this octave of the creation, and NOT subjective things.

it doesnt matter how you feel about it : 51% positive emissions polarization is the graduation requirement for 3d planets that employ a veil.

is it strict ? yes it is.

similarly, positive, negative, and their traits were explained as well. and are they strict ? yes. 3rd is the density of choice, and 4th is density of x, this ray pertains to that, the other pertains to another.

these are information.

Q'uo has stated multiple times that Ra has wrongly predicted and estimated many things; do you contend that the Ra channel is 100% absolutely perfect? I do not. I think there are some inconsistencies, due to the medium in which the information was delivered in that channeling is no easy process. I think we should retain a small amount of humility when we discuss these matters; none of us KNOW.

prediction is something that is made regarding the FUTURE outcome of events, which can change at any point in time by the choice of entities. the very prediction being made itself, can change the timeline due to other entities becoming aware of the prediction, and making choices for or against it. and this is why Ra has refrained from making any predictions as much as possible, and when they have made it, they explicitly stated the possibility of other choices always exist.

however, speaking of the mechanics, nature and workings of this creation, like everything having 7 chakras, like there being positive and negative, like positive and negative entities and society complexes behaving in particular ways in regard to those rays,

these are not things we do not know. these are information. not predictions.

and, you cant just put the two in the same basket, and attempt to disregard the very mechanics that were created by the logos of this universe, saying that some prediction didnt come to being.

there is nothing to be humble about it ; gravity exists. it pulls you towards the object you are standing on. how you feel on that matter, or, what some source says about it, or your choice of food tomorrow, does not change anything in regard to existence of gravity or its properties.

As far as your points here, where is your proof? Where are Ra's rules for internet forums? What is your proof that HH is a complete lie, other than your personal understanding of the rules and restrictions of 6th density negative?

you are believing a source that EXPLICITLY states itself to be a member of a path that lies on dominating others after enslaving them through lies, deception, confusion, suppression.

sorry, but, the one who should rationalize and justify here, is not me, or Ra. it is you, someone who believes such a source.

what has been explained in Ra material, now dubbed as 'my personal understanding', is less valid than a source that explicitly confesses to be on a path that is for enslavement and domination for others ?

Here's a thought: what is HH is a 3D entity who was told all this information, and then, as a 3D entity, decided to CHOOSE to share this information, even though it was frowned upon? Yes, it will cause a polarity loss, but hey, we're in 3D, right?

oh - and the supposed 6d negative entity, which was even past the stage of 5d wisdom that would enable the foresight that it would require, was unable to think that the 3d entity was to share this information.

yes. they totally wouldnt have judged that possibility.

no. they not only would have judged that possibility, but also they would have sought to effect that possibility, and provide all the information to that 3d entity based on that possibility.

yes - to make people exactly like you believe them.

I'm trying to say that 'just because you say so' is never going to be good enough for me, and I will question anything that does not resonate. I hate to say it, but your fact-checking absolute opinions do not resonate with me; much is changing in the world right now and my understanding of everything changes more and more each day. We must know we do not know.

yes, however what some source that professes to be service to SELF, resonates with you, more than someone's fact-checking resonates with you.

you are opting to believe a source that declares itself to be service to self.

i dont know what we are even discussing here. someone serving self has no obligations to tell the truth to you, and has the liberty of using any means to enslave someone as long as they accept it.

I'm would like to apologize in advance if this seems a little too aggressive (the indigo in me), but i'm kinda fired up i guess...

nothing pertaining to aggressiveness was described in the material we are studying in regard to indigo ray. it is not one of the properties of indigo ray.

maybe it is because you didnt study this material deep enough that, you are able to actually go and believe what a source that gleefully declares themselves to be service to self, tells you ?

believing what joseph goebbels says, or believing what hidden hand says. there are no differences among these two.

actually there is - the negatively inclined then harvested entities did not at any point declare themselves to be service to self. they didnt go that far.

Thanks, unity100. That was very informative.

unity100 rocks! Once again a discussion about HH (which probably gives unity another allergic reaction), but weariless, he stands forward as the white knight of Confederation fencing with a blue sword of light!

its not an allergic reaction.

its what would anyone who got appalled by beholding that there is someone who believes in some source that openly declares that they are on a path that seeks dominating and enslaving others through any means possible.

at no point it crossed my mind that such a thing would happen.

[Monica]

I'm would like to apologize in advance if this seems a little too aggressive (the indigo in me), but i'm kinda fired up i guess...

nothing pertaining to aggressiveness was described in the material we are studying in regard to indigo ray.

I think s/he may have been referring to 'indigo children' rather than indigo ray...?

---

you are believing a source that EXPLICITLY states itself to be a member of a path that lies on dominating others after enslaving them through lies, deception, confusion, suppression.

:idea:

[hogey11]

if you see referencing the material we are supposedly speaking on here, as ME having authority over you, this is your problem.

I am merely speaking of your style. I feel there should be an amount of humility here, in that we are not speaking of 'hard science', but instead about channeled material from a 3rd party. Allow others to spread their wings and fly with their ideas, rather than point out every small inconsistency you can find that clashes with your own personal opinions.

The fact is that you often misunderstand the semantics involved and end up creating a whole bunch of misunderstanding purely due to your insistence that everyone fit their ideas through your own filter.

prediction is something that is made regarding the FUTURE outcome of events, which can change at any point in time by the choice of entities. the very prediction being made itself, can change the timeline due to other entities becoming aware of the prediction, and making choices for or against it. and this is why Ra has refrained from making any predictions as much as possible, and when they have made it, they explicitly stated the possibility of other choices always exist.

however, speaking of the mechanics, nature and workings of this creation, like everything having 7 chakras, like there being positive and negative, like positive and negative entities and society complexes behaving in particular ways in regard to those rays,

these are not things we do not know. these are information. not predictions.

and, you cant just put the two in the same basket, and attempt to disregard the very mechanics that were created by the logos of this universe, saying that some prediction didnt come to being.

there is nothing to be humble about it ; gravity exists. it pulls you towards the object you are standing on. how you feel on that matter, or, what some source says about it, or your choice of food tomorrow, does not change anything in regard to existence of gravity or its properties.

OK, lets get philosophical here:

So are you saying that there are only a predetermined set of choices before us? I am saying that you are claiming that NO STS entity would ever tell the truth to anybody, for any reason, and frankly, that is restrictive. How can you doubt Intelligent Infinity like this? Essentially, you are saying 'This is impossible.' That's crap; nothing is impossible.

So, please teach me: What are the mechanics involved here? Where does it say that a STS entity, regardless of Confederation contract, will refuse to ever tell the truth in any circumstance, even if the end result could not be affected?

Saying "No, that won't work." is that easiest thing in the world; I can do it all day. Finding out how it can work is harder, but much more satisfying.

you are believing a source that EXPLICITLY states itself to be a member of a path that lies on dominating others after enslaving them through lies, deception, confusion, suppression.

sorry, but, the one who should rationalize and justify here, is not me, or Ra. it is you, someone who believes such a source.

what has been explained in Ra material, now dubbed as 'my personal understanding', is less valid than a source that explicitly confesses to be on a path that is for enslavement and domination for others ?

I am not aware of this EXPLICIT statement. Please show me where Ra states a higher density negative entity will only lie and not tell the truth? If this is the case, can I then play opposites and just do the opposite, therefore finding the truth? Seems like a pretty easy game to play....

You sit here and spit hate at everyone's sources, but you don't even provide your great evidence yourself? The fact is we don't know all the rules, nor do we know when those rules change.

oh - and the supposed 6d negative entity, which was even past the stage of 5d wisdom that would enable the foresight that it would require, was unable to think that the 3d entity was to share this information.

yes. they totally wouldnt have judged that possibility.

no. they not only would have judged that possibility, but also they would have sought to effect that possibility, and provide all the information to that 3d entity based on that possibility.

yes - to make people exactly like you believe them.

So, if this is true, what happened with Ra? When they came to earth, wouldn't they have seen the future like you are supposing here? Why did they fail, when they knew their tools would be taken and distorted, creating the inroads the Orion entities needed to start influencing the planet?

What you are saying here disrespects Ra greatly, for if a 6D entity could foretell the future, there would be no reason for failure.

So for you to say that it would be obviously seen and stopped by the 6D entities completely takes away from Free Will, the first directive of the creator. I refuse to think this is how it is, for the Creator would not allow such an infringement of free will. Also, if this were true, wouldn't have Ra warned Don about the psychic attacks when he commited suicide? They wanted their work to be done and recorded, so it would make no sense that they would not help.

You seem to pick and choose these examples to only support you when you want them to. I don't agree with this strategy.

yes, however what some source that professes to be service to SELF, resonates with you, more than someone's fact-checking resonates with you.

you are opting to believe a source that declares itself to be service to self.

i dont know what we are even discussing here. someone serving self has no obligations to tell the truth to you, and has the liberty of using any means to enslave someone as long as they accept it.

I am very glad you brought this up.

What is it, exactly, that I believe? What has this source taught me that is so egregious? What am I to be fearful of?

Please tell me. What are the dangers?

Are we not all from the One? Can there not be anything learned from our brothers on the other side of the spectrum?

Maybe i'm foolish, but I refuse the absolute rejection of anything. I love all... Even hidden_hand.


And Monica, you were bang on. I was referring to my 'indigo child' behaviors, as I tend to get upset with those who assert authority quite often in my life...

[3DMonkey]

if you see referencing the material we are supposedly speaking on here, as ME having authority over you, this is your problem.

I am merely speaking of your style. I feel there should be an amount of humility here, in that we are not speaking of 'hard science', but instead about channeled material from a 3rd party. Allow others to spread their wings and fly with their ideas, rather than point out every small inconsistency you can find that clashes with your own personal opinions.

The fact is that you often misunderstand the semantics involved and end up creating a whole bunch of misunderstanding purely due to your insistence that everyone fit their ideas through your own filter.

These are the fruits produced. A stirrer of strife.

(even if fingers are pointing at me, it doesn't change the fruit. I accept my charges, if they come.)

[Monica]

Moderator Note:

I don't know what's going on, but there sure seems to be a lot of discord spanning several threads. Please, everyone, take a moment to take a deep breath and get centered. Also take a moment to review our guidelines:

The purpose of our forum is to provide you and many seekers like you a safe meeting place conducive to conversation regarding the fascinating and inexhaustible field of spiritual evolution. And not just spiritual evolution in general, but spiritual evolution as understood through the eyes of the Law of One material, the Confederation philosophy, and the work of L/L Research. In the digital world of the internet, these forums represent a sacred meeting place, a holy temple where people from a wide range of backgrounds, temperaments, and orientations converge to share themselves on the common ground of service to others, of love, light, unity, and joy. In order to better facilitate and safeguard this incredible and rare environment, we have established some guidelines* whose spirit and letter we respectfully request you honor during your interactions in these forums.

1) Respect. Compassion. Loving-kindness. Empathy. Trust. Goodwill. Desire to serve. Embracing each other. Opening our heart. Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum IS the Creator. Please keep communication respectful at all times and in all ways. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea. Please remember that we are all here to expand our knowledge, deepen our understanding, and support one another by reflecting our divinity to each other. We are One being -- we are not here to forget the real.

---

These are the fruits produced. A stirrer of strife.

(even if fingers are pointing at me, it doesn't change the fruit. I accept my charges, if they come.)

3DM, you've made several such references, which seem rather ironic in light of our conversation on the other thread about fully loving and accepting other-selves.

Guideline #2 states:

2) The question of one's personal journey in integrating the Law of One teachings is of central interest and importance for this group, thus leading to practically limitless areas for personal sharing and participation in a safe atmosphere of mutual trust and respect. For this reason we ask that members of the forums keep their posts on topic.

In light of this, I invite you (and anyone else) to share your concerns on the thread created for that very purpose:

Life on Planet Earth > Cognitive Distortions and Forum Relationships

...so that this thread can get back on topic. Thank you.

Moderator Note:

I would also like to remind everyone to check their pm boxes. We have policies in place for discussing Hidden Hand, and this isn't the place for it. This thread will be split and the HH portions moved to the appropriate thread. This was explained in the pm's which apparently weren't seen. Again, thank you for honoring our guidelines. I'm just a volunteer and my job is easier when everyone does that!

[hogey11]

Monica, i've sent you a PM.

With all due respect, other than my big mistake by posting the block of text, I feel my references to HH have been completely on-topic to the original thread topic. The fact is that the idea, whether true or not, has merit in context of this idea; it should not be silenced purely because a few posters disagree with it.

@3DMonkey

I have to agree with Monica that the patience we all require will need to be stepped up. Unity has his own unique ideas and way of doing things, but I think its important to remember that he is playing his part as much as we are. Whether it's to provide him or you catalyst, somebody is being dislodged, and for that we should be thankful for the opportunity.

That being said, I do not feel that Unity and my exchange is a heated affair. I hope the tone is more closely resembling two academics debating minute details If not, again, I apologize.

[Monica]

With all due respect, other than my big mistake by posting the block of text, I feel my references to HH have been completely on-topic to the original thread topic. The fact is that the idea, whether true or not, has merit in context of this idea; it should not be silenced purely because a few posters disagree with it.

It isn't being silenced; just redirected.

We never silence anyone for disagreement. There is no censorship here. We just have designated places for discussions of other channeled sources, and very good reasons for doing so, which are explained in the guidelines.

[hogey11]

I think I misunderstood how much was to be 'cleaned up'... I thought you meant any talk of it had to stop. My bad!

[Monica]

I think I misunderstood how much was to be 'cleaned up'... I thought you meant any talk of it had to stop. My bad!

Ha, no I rarely ever edit anyone's posts. Carry on. Just in the other thread.

[3DMonkey]

3DM, you've made several such references, which seem rather ironic in light of our conversation on the other thread about fully loving and accepting other-selves.

A simple discernment of what it is I am accepting is all. An observation, if you will. I would love Unity100 to pieces if he'd ever let us behind the curtain. He knows that. He knows my observation is true, too. .... I love you too, Monica. I will support you if ever you find yourself in judicial trouble for stopping a murder

[Monica]

A simple discernment of what it is I am accepting is all. An observation, if you will. I would love Unity100 to pieces if he'd ever let us behind the curtain.

The if makes it conditional.

Love isn't conditional.

Acceptance isn't conditional.

I'm confused. You just built a huge case about accepting a murderer unconditionally...but now you require conditions from someone who has a communication style not to your liking?

Maybe it is love that opens the curtain...

He knows that. He knows my observation is true, too. .... I love you too, Monica. I will support you if ever you find yourself in judicial trouble for stopping a murder

Hopefully I'll never have to call upon your services, but thanks...I think.

[3DMonkey]

A simple discernment of what it is I am accepting is all. An observation, if you will. I would love Unity100 to pieces if he'd ever let us behind the curtain.

The if makes it conditional.

Love isn't conditional.

Acceptance isn't conditional.

I'm confused. You just built a huge case about accepting a murderer unconditionally...but now you require conditions from someone who has a communication style not to your liking?

Maybe it is love that opens the curtain...

He knows that. He knows my observation is true, too. .... I love you too, Monica. I will support you if ever you find yourself in judicial trouble for stopping a murder

Hopefully I'll never have to call upon your services, but thanks...I think.

Okay, now we are into semantics. I was not saying I don't love Unity100, and I have told him MANY times. I was saying that I would love for him to pull the curtain back a little so I can "cuddle" up to him a bit more.

My "case" had nothing to do with me, you even said so. I was making a case for the merits of STO vs STS.

----
I don't think you will need my help in that silly matter. You are full of love, and you aren't too aware of how much that protects you, methinks. Hey, didn't I just tell you the other day that your love permeates the vibrations of the pets you love? Yeah, that WAS this kooky monkey, the same.

[unity100]

I am merely speaking of your style. I feel there should be an amount of humility here, in that we are not speaking of 'hard science', but instead about channeled material from a 3rd party. Allow others to spread their wings and fly with their ideas, rather than point out every small inconsistency you can find that clashes with your own personal opinions.

i have no need for 'humility', since what im referring to are NOT my production or opinions. i have referred you to direct, stated information in Ra material.

OK, lets get philosophical here:

So are you saying that there are only a predetermined set of choices before us? I am saying that you are claiming that NO STS entity would ever tell the truth to anybody, for any reason, and frankly, that is restrictive. How can you doubt Intelligent Infinity like this? Essentially, you are saying 'This is impossible.' That's crap; nothing is impossible.

Saying "No, that won't work." is that easiest thing in the world; I can do it all day. Finding out how it can work is harder, but much more satisfying.

there is nothing philosophical about the way a creation is created.

your choices and the mechanics creation works are not related :

we are told this creation was created to be in 7 octaves each reflecting a certain property of creation, and each with 7 sub octaves and so on.

we are told, light was made to travel in a straight line.

we are told that 3rd density was the density of choice, and 4 of understanding.

your choices, anyone's choices do not matter here. noone, by their choices, will be able to change this creation to be 9 octaves, or, make the 4th density not the density of choice, or, modify light to not travel in a straight line according to its nature.

there is nothing philosophical about this either - these are mechanics.

even so that, the sub logoi, which are creators of their own creation, are not able to change these laws, but only to modify them, if you remember (that is if you read) the parts of Ra material regarding this. so, this sub-logos that is our sun, has been able to modify the natural laws that govern this solar system, but was NOT able to change it.

'that's crap, nothing is impossible' -> yes, there are a lot of things that are impossible. for example, please try creating a new galaxy by your own creative power in the next 15 minutes. or, just leave this octave, and start the next octave, leaving us behind. or, travel to mars by thought in your 3d body, and without dying, wait for 5 minutes, and come back. also, stop time on this planet while doing that. you wont be able to.

So, please teach me: What are the mechanics involved here? Where does it say that a STS entity, regardless of Confederation contract, will refuse to ever tell the truth in any circumstance, even if the end result could not be affected?

I am not aware of this EXPLICIT statement. Please show me where Ra states a higher density negative entity will only lie and not tell the truth? If this is the case, can I then play opposites and just do the opposite, therefore finding the truth? Seems like a pretty easy game to play....

first, if you have read and remember, there is no contract in between confederation and negative entities.

secondly, it appears that you are basing all your belief and trust in a narrow margin of belief that says this negative source, despite declaring that it IS a negative, self serving source, may, for this time, opt to tell some 3d entity it wants to do whatever with, the truth.

yes, that is quite possible. it is as possible as the top ranking members of nazi party were wanting to have peace in europe, while they were waving off chamberlain from the airport. chamberlain chose to believe them, using a possibility like that.

You sit here and spit hate at everyone's sources, but you don't even provide your great evidence yourself? The fact is we don't know all the rules, nor do we know when those rules change.

the above is not even comprehensible. you need to show 'hate'. saying that a sts source that openly declared itself to be a sts source, is probably lying to you, is not 'hate'. its reason.

evidence ?

in case you forgot - and you seem to - service to self do not even hesitate from landing in force to a planet to conquer them, if they gather that they would be able to subdue the inhabitants after they did that - even at the cost of going against the laws of free will - ra says that if they are able to conquer the planet and make the inhabitants accept, law of the free will will again be established.

evidence ?

the orion group has stole the ENTIRE identity of yahweh. leave aside lying to all entities in middle east, they have usurped the identity of another society complex.

and yet, you are telling us that it is possible to trust a service to self source.

So, if this is true, what happened with Ra? When they came to earth, wouldn't they have seen the future like you are supposing here? Why did they fail, when they knew their tools would be taken and distorted, creating the inroads the Orion entities needed to start influencing the planet?

So for you to say that it would be obviously seen and stopped by the 6D entities completely takes away from Free Will, the first directive of the creator. I refuse to think this is how it is, for the Creator would not allow such an infringement of free will. Also, if this were true, wouldn't have Ra warned Don about the psychic attacks when he commited suicide? They wanted their work to be done and recorded, so it would make no sense that they would not help.

What you are saying here disrespects Ra greatly, for if a 6D entity could foretell the future, there would be no reason for failure.

first, we dont have any obligation to respect any other societal complex or density.

second, none of what you describe above justifies believing a STS source and its explanations. a lot of things might have happened with Ra and its experience on this planet, ra may have not been able to see a probability vortex, or Ra may have tried to push for a very, very low margin probability vortex and change the fate of this planet and failed.

these still do not justify fitting in an explanation from a sts source.

if, this is your main concern, then you can just work on this issue and try to bring an explanation through the information we can rely on, and this would be the logical thing to do. but, ferrying in 'information' from a source that is concerned foremost with serving the self, even at the cost of violating free will if they can pull it, is not the logical or spiritual thing to do - unless you are polarizing negatively that is, that is also of course, a choice.

You seem to pick and choose these examples to only support you when you want them to. I don't agree with this strategy.

what you call 'examples', are the given information and done deeds of negative sources on this planet. of course, they support this, because these are in the nature of negative path.

I am very glad you brought this up.

What is it, exactly, that I believe? What has this source taught me that is so egregious? What am I to be fearful of?

Please tell me. What are the dangers?

Are we not all from the One? Can there not be anything learned from our brothers on the other side of the spectrum?

Maybe i'm foolish, but I refuse the absolute rejection of anything. I love all... Even hidden_hand.

loving something does not mean that you should trust and believe.

what are the dangers ? getting distortions that you may need to clean in a few lifetimes somewhere ? or, even direr consequences, if you build up on it, ending you with a situation of being placed in negative time/space ? leading your way of return to be much longer ?

of course, in the end, towards infinity, you are all from 'the one'. if, based on this, you have no problems walking in the reverse direction of the road you are wanting to travel on, that is entirely your choice, and valid. if you state it like that, ie 'i am wanting to believe these negative entities, even tho they are very probably wanting to throw me off and lead me away and make me stumble and use and exploit me for their own benefit, despite i am wanting to walk a path that is not negative', that is entirely conscious, aware, and valid choice on your part.

And Monica, you were bang on. I was referring to my 'indigo child' behaviors, as I tend to get upset with those who assert authority quite often in my life...

These are the fruits produced. A stirrer of strife.

(even if fingers are pointing at me, it doesn't change the fruit. I accept my charges, if they come.)

3DM, you've made several such references, which seem rather ironic in light of our conversation on the other thread about fully loving and accepting other-selves.

quite, i have noticed that he had had made such retorts regarding me in various threads, ranging from 'and the viper strikes again' to 'you admitted that your blue is blocked', 'you indicted yourself' and so on, approximately a total of 4 times in the past 1.5-2 weeks. leave aside without any logical grounding. and at some times, forgetting the very nature of what he is supposedly using as an argument, like in the case of blue ray.

and after all those, i noticed he had had complained about 'being singled out among wanderers'.

i have no problems about others' views, but if someone who is calling someone else a 'viper' complains about 'being singled out', it becomes problematic.

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...9#pid36079

thank you for notifying this.

[3DMonkey]

Hahaha. Thank you Unity100!

If you simply ask, I would love to speak with you.

I never referred to you as a viper. Never. Not once. I would love to use your own logic here. Can you make a case that I referred to you as a viper?

If you had read and remember the reference to the viper, you would know that it is not a 3D entity such as yourself. You would further recognize that it is a specific use of wisdom, the fang.

Your logic has failed you.

It is the viper's bite that I would hope to protect you from, my beloved brother. I do have much to offer you, if you would allow me.

[zenmaster]

Free cheeze for everyone.

[3DMonkey]

Also, how is recognizing that your own post positions you to be revealing your blocked energy rays. It was not an insult. The logic of the post clearly points directly to your own actions. Again, I am a valid, loving individual who will walk these steps with you, if you allow me.

---

Free cheeze for everyone.

I don't get it. Could you explain?

[zenmaster]

Free cheeze for everyone.

I don't get it. Could you explain?

On topic: What would you do as a Logos?

[3DMonkey]

hahaha. Excellent. Cream cheese please.
my constant derailing forgets the words "on topic"

[Monica]

On topic: What would you do as a Logos?

Thank you zen. This has been exhausting.

[zenmaster]

hahaha. Excellent. Cream cheese please.
my constant derailing forgets the words "on topic"

This is a sub-logos, only offering domestic swiss and münster varieties. However, as sub-sub-logos, you may use these for food catalyst, such as in your so-called 'sandwich' meals.

[3DMonkey]

münster it is, with avocado.

and a Lord of the Rings dvd

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[hogey11]

i have no need for 'humility', since what im referring to are NOT my production or opinions. i have referred you to direct, stated information in Ra material.

Sometimes that is true, and other times I would contend that. We'll just agree to disagree.

there is nothing philosophical about the way a creation is created.

your choices and the mechanics creation works are not related :

we are told this creation was created to be in 7 octaves each reflecting a certain property of creation, and each with 7 sub octaves and so on.

we are told, light was made to travel in a straight line.

we are told that 3rd density was the density of choice, and 4 of understanding.

your choices, anyone's choices do not matter here. noone, by their choices, will be able to change this creation to be 9 octaves, or, make the 4th density not the density of choice, or, modify light to not travel in a straight line according to its nature.

there is nothing philosophical about this either - these are mechanics.

even so that, the sub logoi, which are creators of their own creation, are not able to change these laws, but only to modify them, if you remember (that is if you read) the parts of Ra material regarding this. so, this sub-logos that is our sun, has been able to modify the natural laws that govern this solar system, but was NOT able to change it.

'that's crap, nothing is impossible' -> yes, there are a lot of things that are impossible. for example, please try creating a new galaxy by your own creative power in the next 15 minutes. or, just leave this octave, and start the next octave, leaving us behind. or, travel to mars by thought in your 3d body, and without dying, wait for 5 minutes, and come back. also, stop time on this planet while doing that. you wont be able to.

I agree with all of this. It is completely on point.

However, it has nothing to do with what I am trying to get at. I am saying that to completely shut down any possibility of a 3D STS entity from ever divulging any true or useful information is to rule out free will. It could happen; it doesn't mean that I think does in each circumstance. I read and I take what resonates, and I leave what does not. I have nothing to fear.

first, if you have read and remember, there is no contract in between confederation and negative entities.

secondly, it appears that you are basing all your belief and trust in a narrow margin of belief that says this negative source, despite declaring that it IS a negative, self serving source, may, for this time, opt to tell some 3d entity it wants to do whatever with, the truth.

yes, that is quite possible. it is as possible as the top ranking members of nazi party were wanting to have peace in europe, while they were waving off chamberlain from the airport. chamberlain chose to believe them, using a possibility like that.

First, HH claims 'Lucifer' is a 6D positive entity, I'm pretty sure. They were contracted to provide the 3D negative path on earth by the Confederation because 'Yahweh' refused to.

Second, the only reason I take this stuff at face value is because I don't find this 'Yahweh' entity infallible. In my opinion, it's reasonable; and if we are to take Ra's teachings seriously, we know that the Garden of Eden was not conducive to the 3D experience; It's like Yahweh got addicted to farmville and everybody was losing (except his crops).

Believe me, my friend, I do not accept any STS entity or idea into my heart; I am guarded. That being said, my ears are open because I am not afraid; all is wisdom and power for the betterment of the creator. Additionally, you do not know what was asked of the Logos, as there could have been sufficient calling for the STS entities in charge to put a channel out there somewhere, whether they liked it or not....

the above is not even comprehensible. you need to show 'hate'. saying that a sts source that openly declared itself to be a sts source, is probably lying to you, is not 'hate'. its reason.

evidence ?

in case you forgot - and you seem to - service to self do not even hesitate from landing in force to a planet to conquer them, if they gather that they would be able to subdue the inhabitants after they did that - even at the cost of going against the laws of free will - ra says that if they are able to conquer the planet and make the inhabitants accept, law of the free will will again be established.

evidence ?

the orion group has stole the ENTIRE identity of yahweh. leave aside lying to all entities in middle east, they have usurped the identity of another society complex.

and yet, you are telling us that it is possible to trust a service to self source.

First, I shouldn't have used the word 'hate'. It was a bad choice of word, and it was confusing. I meant doubt or disapproval or something more along those lines. My bad.

I don't think the 'Lucifer' entity belongs to the Orion group... I'm pretty sure they are a completely different problem altogether. Again, I am not sure how I am trusting them, but ok.

first, we dont have any obligation to respect any other societal complex or density.

second, none of what you describe above justifies believing a STS source and its explanations. a lot of things might have happened with Ra and its experience on this planet, ra may have not been able to see a probability vortex, or Ra may have tried to push for a very, very low margin probability vortex and change the fate of this planet and failed.

these still do not justify fitting in an explanation from a sts source.

if, this is your main concern, then you can just work on this issue and try to bring an explanation through the information we can rely on, and this would be the logical thing to do. but, ferrying in 'information' from a source that is concerned foremost with serving the self, even at the cost of violating free will if they can pull it, is not the logical or spiritual thing to do - unless you are polarizing negatively that is, that is also of course, a choice.

I was trying to make the point once again that being absolute is not wise. There is always the chance that the less obvious comes to happen. That is all I am trying to say.

loving something does not mean that you should trust and believe.

what are the dangers ? getting distortions that you may need to clean in a few lifetimes somewhere ? or, even direr consequences, if you build up on it, ending you with a situation of being placed in negative time/space ? leading your way of return to be much longer ?

of course, in the end, towards infinity, you are all from 'the one'. if, based on this, you have no problems walking in the reverse direction of the road you are wanting to travel on, that is entirely your choice, and valid. if you state it like that, ie 'i am wanting to believe these negative entities, even tho they are very probably wanting to throw me off and lead me away and make me stumble and use and exploit me for their own benefit, despite i am wanting to walk a path that is not negative', that is entirely conscious, aware, and valid choice on your part.

I thank you for your concern, unity, but there is nothing to fear. Reading through the HH postings, I did not find any information that changed or affected my views on the Law of One. I feel I gained a better understanding from the view of the STS path, but in no way did anything HH write trump what I find and hear from Ra. That will never change. HH has built on it for me tho, and for that I find it a small resource.

For the sake of everyone, I vote we end this argument between us on this topic. I love ya, but we shall agree to disagree on this topic. All is well. I will take extra cheeze, please!

[unity100]

Self control has always been the greatest Buddhic mastery, you do not have to enslave to have service to yourself,

the description of service to self we are given int he material we are discussing, tells that service to self seeks/requires to enslave.

However, it has nothing to do with what I am trying to get at. I am saying that to completely shut down any possibility of a 3D STS entity from ever divulging any true or useful information is to rule out free will. It could happen; it doesn't mean that I think does in each circumstance. I read and I take what resonates, and I leave what does not. I have nothing to fear.

it seems more like you WANT to believe what they say, and for that, you are wanting to risk a small margin of possibility of truth.

you know that a service to other entity, would be inclined to tell the truth. you know that a service to self entity, would be inclined to do anything to serve its self, including lie, faking, anything.

yet you are wanting to trust a crook because you want to believe a piece of information.

of course there is a chance that a crook would be telling the truth. however, would you trust a crook ?

this is what i see from your description of the situation.

Believe me, my friend, I do not accept any STS entity or idea into my heart; I am guarded. That being said, my ears are open because I am not afraid; all is wisdom and power for the betterment of the creator. Additionally, you do not know what was asked of the Logos, as there could have been sufficient calling for the STS entities in charge to put a channel out there somewhere, whether they liked it or not....

see, the thing is, you are in real estate business. there is a certain type of company that does anything to profit, including lies and deceit. they are crooks.

you are wanting to buy a house so much that, you are saying to yourself 'even tho that company is the crook-type, do crooks lie all the time ?' and taking the risk.

I thank you for your concern, unity, but there is nothing to fear. Reading through the HH postings, I did not find any information that changed or affected my views on the Law of One. I feel I gained a better understanding from the view of the STS path, but in no way did anything HH write trump what I find and hear from Ra. That will never change. HH has built on it for me tho, and for that I find it a small resource.

you are totally forgetting the magical properties of existence, what happens in time/space through any kind of action/reaction in space/time.

remember from Ra material that, 5d negative entities are able to build paths of intrusion to an entity's energy web/aura.

[hogey11]

@unity100

All I can say is that I feel you misjudge my 'armor', if we want to call it that. That may come off as confident or conceited, but it is no different than your own insistence towards your own correctness.

Say I am a 6D wanderer.... Why should I fear these 5D entities? I am not saying I am, but what if? Unless we penetrate the veil, none of us know what true power we hold. For some reason, this idea causes my inner self to press forward.

I walk proudly without fear because I am assured. I wish you the same in your own ideals.

[Unbound]

Is it not possible to be a slave to one's own ideas, to enslave oneself with the self?

[hogey11]

Is it not possible to be a slave to one's own ideas, to enslave oneself with the self?

I feel it is possible. It is why I am not afraid of information from others. I used to bound myself to my understanding, but too many times I let myself down. I have found that I know little, and therefore, I listen.

(in some ways, the countpoint could be made that i'm not listening at all to unity, but i'd contend that listening does not constitute agreement.)

[Ankh]

hogey11 - you speak very compassionate about HH. But what is there that made you resonate so strongly with the material? (I resonated with it myself, therefore, is only curious.)

[hogey11]

Hmmmm....

I guess i'm an eternal optimist. I feel that polarities exist for a reason, and that even those on the selfish path may have moments of both clarity and confusion.

I think speaking to the imperfect nature of 'Yahweh' interests me from a theological perspective; it explains much about the 'angry God' of the Old Testament.

I think it also sheds light on the essence of the sub-logos. Sub-logos act as the searching mechanism in the OIC's search of itself, and therefore, are not complete. They, like us, have distortions. Unity has been making this point quite well, in that each density holds a distortion or exaggeration. I guess I do not see the apparent danger in 'Lucifer' divulging this information, in that we know from Ra that 'Yahweh' had been negatively influenced at some point in time. For myself, this story resonated.

I feel the reason it resonated is because it 'works' in my mind. I see the lack of choice in the garden of eden as Yahweh's weakness in their own path towards Infinity. Just as Ra had to fight their way through 5D after learning too much compassion towards martyrdom in 4D, so does Yahweh struggle to provide suitable catalyst in the face of possible harmony. They simply needed help with their deficiencies.

That's my current understanding, but then again, it changes all the time.

I actually just read some of a non-canonical gospel where it speaks of this stuff, but in a different light... I should make a different post (and will!)

[unity100]

@unity100

All I can say is that I feel you misjudge my 'armor', if we want to call it that. That may come off as confident or conceited, but it is no different than your own insistence towards your own correctness.

Say I am a 6D wanderer.... Why should I fear these 5D entities? I am not saying I am, but what if? Unless we penetrate the veil, none of us know what true power we hold. For some reason, this idea causes my inner self to press forward.

I walk proudly without fear because I am assured. I wish you the same in your own ideals.

this is not a matter of 'armor' or 'fear' or veil or this or that.

again,

you are out to buy a house. and there is a particular house you intend to buy. but, that house is being sold by a corporation that has its method as 'crookery'.

it doesnt matter what your intentions and hopes or fears or joys are while approaching that corporation. that corporation is employing the method of a crook. they will try to swindle you if they think it fits their purpose at that point.

it doesnt matter whether you are afraid or not. you'll get probably swindled. it doesnt matter whether you may be afraid of getting swindled or not. when you get swindled, you get swindled.

the only reason to get swindled may be to learn not to get swindled.