Metaphysical democracy?

[turtledude23]

Is there democratic metaphysical government ruling the material illusion behind the scenes? By which I mean each persons intentions, thoughts, feelings, daydreams, etc directing energies which end up manifesting as changes in our visible world.

I ask because there are alot of social and political issues I'm concerned about which I could change by getting involved in politics but there's no guarantee my efforts will lead to the result I want. Right now I'm particularly concerned about the election in Canada, the prime minister we had for the past 5 years is pretty much the worst PM in Canadian history, he's trying to turn our country into the U.S., and he's leading in the polls, I really don't want him to win again, the other parties are way better I can't even understand why anyone is voting for him other than ignorance. Who's in power probably won't ever affect me personally but I'm concerned about how it would affect society overall.

[3DMonkey]

Is there democratic metaphysical government ruling the material illusion behind the scenes? By which I mean each persons intentions, thoughts, feelings, daydreams, etc directing energies which end up manifesting as changes in our visible world.

Democratic? No, I don't think its organized that way.

Directing energies? Well, yeah, absolutely. That's what the collective is. It just hasn't reached consciousness yet.

---

Getting involved in politics? Thanks for giving me opportunity to say this ( I've been saving it. ) If someone wants to be in politics, ask yourself, do I want to represent the interests of the people or do I want to represent my ideas of how it should be?

[Confused]

Is there democratic metaphysical government ruling the material illusion behind the scenes?

I confess that I do not under the question completely, td23. But the following quote may show that there indeed could be a democratic sort of set-up in terms of managing our system metaphysically, including our planet on broad first principles. I of course do not personally know or understand as to whether that also includes PMs of governments on earth. This is very nuanced area, in my opinion.

39.9 Questioner: I see. “The Nine” describe themselves as the “nine principals of God.” Can you tell me what they mean by that?

Ra: I am Ra. This is also a veiled statement. The attempt is made to indicate that the nine who sit upon the Council are those representing the Creator, the One Creator, just as there may be nine witnesses in a courtroom testifying for one defendant. The term principal has this meaning also.

The desire of the scribe may be seen in much of this material to have affected the manner of its presentation just as the abilities and preferences of this group determine the nature of this contact. The difference lies in the fact that we are as we are. Thus we may either speak as we will or not speak at all. This demands a very tuned, shall we say, group.

[turtledude23]

Getting involved in politics? Thanks for giving me opportunity to say this ( I've been saving it. ) If someone wants to be in politics, ask yourself, do I want to represent the interests of the people or do I want to represent my ideas of how it should be?

Well I think the issue is what would make people happiest, not necessarily what they want, because what everyone ultimately wants is to be happy, everything else we want is what we think will help us achieve that goal but often times we find out we're wrong. If you asked someone if they want more regulation or less in a certain market the majority of people probably don't have an educated opinion about it. As long as a policy maker is genuinely motivated by making as many people as happy possible then it doesn't matter if they ignore popular opinion sometimes because popular opinion can be wrong.

Is there democratic metaphysical government ruling the material illusion behind the scenes?

I confess that I do not under the question completely, td23. But the following quote may show that there indeed could be a democratic sort of set-up in terms of managing our system metaphysically, including our planet on broad first principles. I of course do not personally know or understand as to whether that also includes PMs of governments on earth. This is very nuanced area, in my opinion.

39.9 Questioner: I see. “The Nine” describe themselves as the “nine principals of God.” Can you tell me what they mean by that?

Ra: I am Ra. This is also a veiled statement. The attempt is made to indicate that the nine who sit upon the Council are those representing the Creator, the One Creator, just as there may be nine witnesses in a courtroom testifying for one defendant. The term principal has this meaning also.

The desire of the scribe may be seen in much of this material to have affected the manner of its presentation just as the abilities and preferences of this group determine the nature of this contact. The difference lies in the fact that we are as we are. Thus we may either speak as we will or not speak at all. This demands a very tuned, shall we say, group.

That was kind of helpful, thanks.

[3DMonkey]

Ouch. Wrong answer. You are saying you know best and everyone else are idiots. I am not trying to insult, but that's the way the politicians think, the ones you disagree with.

Trusting the people to serve their interests is trusting yourself. If we know that all catalyst has a purpose and that all entities have a life fuller than this body complex, we have all the time in the world to let love shine it's way to the top. There is no need to expedite the process in a way that actually hinders it.

[turtledude23]

Ouch. Wrong answer. You are saying you know best and everyone else are idiots. I am not trying to insult, but that's the way the politicians think, the ones you disagree with.

Trusting the people to serve their interests is trusting yourself. If we know that all catalysthas a purpose and that all entities have a life fuller than this body complex, we have all the time in the world to let love shine it's way to the top. There is no need to expedite the process in a way that actually hinders it.

The politicians I disagree with don't have empathy for people and are not concerned with making people happy. Everyone has different talents and some people are smarter than others, creating the laws which a society follows is not something just anyone can do, it requires intelligence. If I asked people right now "should the stock market be abolished?" most people would say no, but do they know anything about how the stock market works and how it affects society?

[3DMonkey]

Ouch. Wrong answer. You are saying you know best and everyone else are idiots. I am not trying to insult, but that's the way the politicians think, the ones you disagree with.

Trusting the people to serve their interests is trusting yourself. If we know that all catalysthas a purpose and that all entities have a life fuller than this body complex, we have all the time in the world to let love shine it's way to the top. There is no need to expedite the process in a way that actually hinders it.

The politicians I disagree with don't have empathy for people and are not concerned with making people happy. Everyone has different talents and some people are smarter than others, creating the laws which a society follows is not something just anyone can do, it requires intelligence. If I asked people right now "should the stock market be abolished?" most people would say no, but do they know anything about how the stock market works and how it affects society?

I disagree from my heart. I don't think your view reflects the LOO. It is fearful, and desires separation.


Anakin: What has that got to do with anything?
Yoda: Everything! Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you.

[drifting pages]

The way of STS is that way that think it knows what is best for everyone it is an attempt to have order in seamless chaos.

The STO simply accepts all that is while choosing it's preferred way of being which allows all that is to reflect that back.

No need to conquer control or dictate at all. Because you are all things you know yourself trough your reflections.

So change yourself and if your vibration changed , like vibrations (reflections ) will do the same

Trust your heart/intuition coupled with your mind, know yourself as the creator that co-creates with itself.

Love integrates ALL experiences, ultimately you know yourself by not knowing yourself. This is the illusion that experiences.
In an endless mystery.

[turtledude23]

I disagree from my heart. I don't think your view reflects the LOO. It is fearful, and desires separation.

How? I think your explicit calling of my intentions as against TLoO is fearful and fostering separation.

Then you guys are saying the only form of STO government would be no government at all? I don't think so. We had anarchy for thousands of years and it resulted in high crime rates and an uncomofortable life without indoor plumbing. Gandhi and MLK refused to condone violence even when a large portion of their supporters wanted them to, I suppose they were being STS by assuming they knew better than their supporters? And I suppose Jesus was being STS when he refused to listen to his supporters telling him to lead a violent revolution against the Romans? Some people are better at some things than other people, you wouldn't call a talented artist STS for suggesting they deserve an award more than someone who drew a stick person, then why do you assume someone who studied how society works in depth for years is being STS by suggesting they have solutions to societys problems that most people probably haven't thought of? Its easy to say STO is about accepting everything when you live in a society peaceful enough to have computer access and where most people are literate like you and could read TLoO if they wanted to. Its impossible to be 100% STO, life in 3D is about compromise, and If I could improve the lives of millions by doing what you consider to be STS then so be it, I think my violet ray would indicate otherwise regardless of what you think.

[3DMonkey]

Hmph. Much fear.

[turtledude23]

Hmph. Much fear.

Could you prove that? It's kind of condescending to ignore all of someones points in a discussion and have your refute be "you're being X" and then not even provide evidence for that statement, though even if you did provide evidence to prove that statement it would still be ignoring the points I made.

Maybe its possible that the philosophy you apply to one-on-one human interaction isn't 100% compatible with the concept of a government? A government is based on infringing the free will of people who infringe other peoples free will, whether you would do that individually is a separate matter from whether an organization doing that serves the good of most people. Think about what you're saying, the only 100% STO government would be no government, anarchy, and that can not work until we live in a world where everyone voluntarily behaves in a moral manner, otherwise those who are truly STS (even more STS then you claim I'm being e.g. people like Stalin) would quickly take over and form their own dictatorship. What we have now is not perfect but it's better than living in a dictatorship.

[Spectrum]

The way of STS is that way that think it knows what is best for everyone

Yeah, STO does not determine the needs of another.

[Ocean]

Monkey i agree with you. thinking people don't know what they want or need thinking for them is the same as a nanny state with a benevolent dictator. the didctator thinks he's just looking out for the masses. nah, very STS. i've always had that streak in me, my desire to be a benevolent dictator but i usually leave that for games.

[Aaron]

The way of STS is that way that think it knows what is best for everyone

Yeah, STO does not determine the needs of another.

I would say that STO as a principle determines the needs of others inasmuch as it doesn't disregard them. It doesn't dictate the needs of another though. I think the word you used is neutral, and could go either way. So many d words!

[Spectrum]

I would say that STO as a principle determines the needs of others inasmuch as it doesn't disregard them. It doesn't dictate the needs of another though. I think the word you used is neutral, and could go either way. So many d words!

Yeah, I think 'dictate' would be a better word.

---

The politicians I disagree with don't have empathy for people

Because politics have long since not been about 'serving the people'.

there are alot of social and political issues I'm concerned about which I could change by getting involved

If you feel that you can do good by getting involved, then you should try it, but you will be walking into a hornets nest, because STO are not attracted to power, so you will mostly be surrounded by STS.

I think society doesn't change for the better from the top down (given who sits at the top), I think one can make a much bigger difference by getting involved in something at grassroots level.

[turtledude23]

If you feel that you can do good by getting involved, then you should try it, but you will be walking into a hornets nest, because STO are not attracted to power, so you will mostly be surrounded by STS.

I think society doesn't change for the better from the top down (given who sits at the top), I think one can make a much bigger difference by getting involved in something at grassroots level.

I think it depends on the country and party. Here I do see party leaders and individual MPs who seem to be half-decent people. I think another way of looking at power is this: we come from densities where we can create just by our thoughts, if we saw an injustice we could correct it by will power alone, in 3D the closest thing to this is being a politician, they can create things by writing a bill and debating it.

I agree for the most part, and that works for specific issues but I'm concerned about like 10 things, but I'll consider what you said, Ralph Nader created alot of change in the U.S. through grassroots efforts alone.

[Spectrum]

Here I do see party leaders and individual MPs who seem to be half-decent people.

I'm sure they are there, but I think they are vastly outnumbered. Maybe they can do with some support.

[3DMonkey]

Think about what you're saying, the only 100% STO government would be no government,

This is true.

anarchy, and that can not work

this is what you fear. Is government the answer? Has government really been a preventer of this? Or has government been an instigator of this?

otherwise those who are truly STS (even more STS then you claim I'm being e.g. people like Stalin) would quickly take over and form their own dictatorship.

this is what you fear. The only way to create a society of love is to be love. There is no other route to love. If you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out", then you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out."

What we have now is not perfect but it's better than living in a dictatorship.

It is not ideal, but in the larger picture of existence, any scenario we find ourselves in is perfect. If, as you suspect, chaos and anarchy would rule the day, so be it. Catalyst in 3D is about experience to a significant part to transform into one of two ways. Government doesn't end catalyst, and why ask it to? Of course, the brilliance in the creation is that asking it to creates more catalyst opportunity.

The truth is that you are upset with current politics. This is okay. My view comes removed from emotional involvement in those politics. It is important to remember that the only way to change the world is to change our personal view. Our personal views are under our supervision and only our supervision, and these views are what contribute to the collective. What are you contributing to our collective as you contemplate your government?

Turn to me now and hug me. Smile. Once you do, you will feel better. Don't deny yourself love. It is your choice. Find love for the politicians you disagree with. Give them a hug. Do it. Just do it, and then get back with me.

---

If you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out", then you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out."

What I mean here is that if you don't believe acting with love will win in a society without government, then you don't believe love will win by infiltrating the government. Which means you want to shove one side of government aside so that you can be the government, but in so doing you haven't changed any hierarchical structure. You've only become satisfied that your opinions are being processed at the higher level.

---

Love isn't achieved in this way.

[turtledude23]

Here I do see party leaders and individual MPs who seem to be half-decent people.

I'm sure they are there, but I think they are vastly outnumbered. Maybe they can do with some support.

I'm supporting them in every way I can right now, which is mainly sharing links on facebook and volunteering for the good party that will most likely win in my riding. I'm going to be studying journalism starting next month, the sooner I write for a large media outlet the sooner I can help them even more, then once I've learned all the ropes I intend to run as an MP - the good ones will have my help, the bad ones will have my public scrutiny.

---

anarchy, and that can not work

this is what you fear. Is government the answer? Has government really been a preventer of this? Or has government been an instigator of this?

Governments reduce crime and help facilitate communication technology and travel, lack of government doesn't.

otherwise those who are truly STS (even more STS then you claim I'm being e.g. people like Stalin) would quickly take over and form their own dictatorship.

this is what you fear. The only way to create a society of love is to be love. There is no other route to love. If you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out", then you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out."

I don't fear that, I recognize it as a possibility which I wouldn't consider ideal. Maybe love can win through my actions?

What we have now is not perfect but it's better than living in a dictatorship.

It is not ideal, but in the larger picture of existence, any scenario we find ourselves in is perfect. If, as you suspect, chaos and anarchy would rule the day, so be it. Catalyst in 3D is about experience to a significant part to transform into one of two ways. Government doesn't end catalyst, and why ask it to? Of course, the brilliance in the creation is that asking it to creates more catalyst opportunity.

Like someone said in that topic about helping people in Africa: there's no lack of catalyst on Earth. What Earth does need however is a society that can serve as a model for other societies to emulate so we can have a gradual transition toward a social memory complex.

The truth is that you are upset with current politics. This is okay. My view comes removed from emotional involvement in those politics. It is important to remember that the only way to change the world is to change our personal view. Our personal views are under our supervision and only our supervision, and these views are what contribute to the collective. What are you contributing to our collective as you contemplate your government?

I'm contributing the strong belief that authority can be wrong and should be questioned and that individuals can affect the world around them and aren't just powerless pawns meant to spend their whole lives conforming. Q'uo said:

Your culture does not encourage original thought. Your culture does not encourage inner-directed behavior and attitudes. Your culture has a consensus reality [1] which is endlessly materialistic. It is as though, with a sea all around you, your culture stands upon a tiny island and says, “This is the world. Do not go to the sea. Do not dive deep in unknown waters. Here in this garden where there is food to eat and work to do, live your life. Question nothing, accept authority, and make no waves. Do not paddle at the shores of the unknown.”

Turn to me now and hug me. Smile. Once you do, you will feel better. Don't deny yourself love. It is your choice. Find love for the politicians you disagree with. Give them a hug. Do it. Just do it, and then get back with me.

I see love in what I'm doing. I don't resent the politicians I dislike on a personal level, I dislike them having the opportunity to exercise their wishes over the masses.

If you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out", then you don't believe it is possible for love to "win out."

What I mean here is that if you don't believe acting with love will win in a society without government, then you don't believe love will win by infiltrating the government. Which means you want to shove one side of government aside so that you can be the government, but in so doing you haven't changed any hierarchical structure. You've only become satisfied that your opinions are being processed at the higher level.

---

Love isn't achieved in this way.

Actually my main goals including changing the government structure itself and peoples knowledge of its workings so in the future it will easier for average peoples intentions to be voiced.

[Lorna]

how old are you turtledude23?
i commend your enthusiasm and your desire to be part of a solution
i felt similarly to you in my late teens / early twenties, mainstream journalism, in my experience, is an industry that sto entities will really struggle with - it wasn't for me, and i'm glad i learned it wasn't for me while at an early stage in my career
instead i've found much satisfaction in helping to manifest change at a grass roots level
your path will take you where you are needed, try not to over think the 'how' of your future, instead simply let your path reveal itself

[turtledude23]

how old are you turtledude23?
i commend your enthusiasm and your desire to be part of a solution
i felt similarly to you in my late teens / early twenties, mainstream journalism, in my experience, is an industry that sto entities will really struggle with - it wasn't for me, and i'm glad i learned it wasn't for me while at an early stage in my career
instead i've found much satisfaction in helping to manifest change at a grass roots level
your path will take you where you are needed, try not to over think the 'how' of your future, instead simply let your path reveal itself

That was helpful, thanks. I turn 19 next month.

I realize that I probably will have to lead a grassroots movement first in order to even get the supporters I need to get elected and I do know that grassroots efforts can have a larger impact than a lone politician however someone in parliament who helps out other peoples grassroots efforts would be a large help to all of the grassroots movements, its a 2 way street.

[3DMonkey]

I love you, man, and I agree with Lorna completely. I am coming from the same place with different words.

How can you be angry with a politician who believes in themselves as much as you believe you are doing the "right" thing?

Do what is in your heart. Please don't look down on citizens as ignorant. Please don't view yourself as their savior. You are just as confused as the rest of us, but in no way do I want to extinguish your passion. In your mind, give the people a chance.

[turtledude23]

I love you, man, and I agree with Lorna completely. I am coming from the same place with different words.

How can you be angry with a politician who believes in themselves as much as you believe you are doing the "right" thing?

Do what is in your heart. Please don't look down on citizens as ignorant. Please don't view yourself as their savior. You are just as confused as the rest of us, but in no way do I want to extinguish your passion. In your mind, give the people a chance.

Anger can lead to social justice. Jesus got angry with the money changers in the temple. While they may be on a STS path and their actions may be right for them I'm not gonna sit idly by and allow them to take place, I can expose them and fight them while still loving them. If you don't believe fighting STS is part of an STO path then that's your personal belief but it's not mine.

Lots of people are very ignorant about how society operates and about the spiritual nature of life, they don't need a "saviour" but they do need someone who will stand up to them against bullies in a system which is supposed to be serving the people's interests in the first place. I would not say I'm just as confused, everyone is confused to varying degrees, the fact that we're all reading TLoO shows that we're less confused than someone who hasn't chosen a polarity. Some people are talented at math, some people are talented at art, some people are talented at sports, I'm talented with logic. I don't appreciate your insinuation that I'm arrogant because I believe I'm smarter than alot of people, I am smart and I want to use that talent to help as many people as possible just as some people are better at making music than alot of people and can use that to help people.

This is what's in my heart. Namaste says follow your bliss and that's I'm doing. My talents and passions lie in logic and social justice and even if I solely have those things to find out that politics isn't for me than that's my lesson to learn, but in the meantime I will be pursuing my passion regardless of what people think my intentions are.

[3DMonkey]

This is what's in my heart. Namaste says follow your bliss and that's I'm doing. My talents and passions lie in logic and social justice and even if I solely have those things to find out that politics isn't for me than that's my lesson to learn, but in the meantime I will be pursuing my passion regardless of what people think my intentions are.

I honestly believe that is the right choice. I am not, nor ever was, trying to change your mind.

I am a citizen of a government. I am smart. I know what I want. I have experiences my own. Everyone you serve will believe these few statements. Many have lived three of your lifetimes. You can do it, but be mindful of that.

Peace.

[Ocean]

someone might seem to you to be confused but could be indeed right where they need to be. just remember the humility and freewill aspects of STO and you'll be fine.

[turtledude23]

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/9738...titutional

I now have one less reason to become a politician. One of the causes I planned on fighting for may soon become a reality!

[3DMonkey]

Hahahahahahahaha. Okay! I can see clearly now.

Go get em tiger

[Spectrum]

however someone in parliament who helps out other peoples grassroots efforts would be a large help to all of the grassroots movements, its a 2 way street.

It's possible.

I found something in the Law of One that relates to this topic:

Questioner: Thank you. Can you give me the same type of information
about the self in relation to the societal self?

Ra: I am Ra. The unmanifested self may find its lessons those which
develop any of the energy influx centers of the mind/body/spirit complex.
The societal and self interactions most often concentrate upon the second
and third energy centers. Thus those most active in attempting to remake or
alter the society are those working from feelings of being correct personally
or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration.
This may be seen to be of a full travel from negative to positive in
orientation. Either will activate these energy ray centers.
There are some few whose desires to aid society are of a green ray nature or
above. These entities, however, are few due to the understanding, may we
say, of fourth ray that universal love freely given is more to be desired than
principalities or even the rearrangement of peoples or political structures.

Questioner: If an entity were to be strongly biased toward positive societal
effects, what would this do to his yellow ray in the aura as opposed to an
entity who wanted to create an empire of society and govern it with an iron
fist?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us take two such positively oriented active souls no longer
in your physical time/space. The one known as Albert went into a strange
and, to it, a barbaric society in order that it might heal. This entity was able
to mobilize great amounts of energy and what you call money. This entity
spent much green ray energy both as a healer and as a lover of your
instrument known as the organ. This entity’s yellow ray was bright and
crystallized by the efforts needed to procure the funds to promulgate its
efforts. However, the green and blue rays were of a toweringly brilliant
nature as well. The higher levels, as you may call them, being activated, the
lower, as you may call them, energy points remaining in a balance, being
quite, quite bright.
The other example is the entity, Martin. This entity dealt in a great degree
with rather negative orange ray and yellow ray vibratory patterns. However,
this entity was able to keep open the green ray energy and due to the
severity of its testing, if anything, this entity may be seen to have polarized
more towards the positive due to its fidelity to service to others in the face
of great catalyst.

Questioner: Could you give me the last names of Albert and Martin?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are known to you as Albert Schweitzer and
Martin Luther King.

[unity100]

I disagree from my heart. I don't think your view reflects the LOO. It is fearful, and desires separation.

How? I think your explicit calling of my intentions as against TLoO is fearful and fostering separation.

Then you guys are saying the only form of STO government would be no government at all? I don't think so. We had anarchy for thousands of years and it resulted in high crime rates and an uncomofortable life without indoor plumbing. Gandhi and MLK refused to condone violence even when a large portion of their supporters wanted them to, I suppose they were being STS by assuming they knew better than their supporters? And I suppose Jesus was being STS when he refused to listen to his supporters telling him to lead a violent revolution against the Romans? Some people are better at some things than other people, you wouldn't call a talented artist STS for suggesting they deserve an award more than someone who drew a stick person, then why do you assume someone who studied how society works in depth for years is being STS by suggesting they have solutions to societys problems that most people probably haven't thought of? Its easy to say STO is about accepting everything when you live in a society peaceful enough to have computer access and where most people are literate like you and could read TLoO if they wanted to. Its impossible to be 100% STO, life in 3D is about compromise, and If I could improve the lives of millions by doing what you consider to be STS then so be it, I think my violet ray would indicate otherwise regardless of what you think.

your analysis is precise.

there is nothing that says sto cannot be organized. existence requires organization, and organization starts right after 1d of this octave. no complex entity can form without cells organizing into a complex unit.

there is nothing wrong about trying to socially help people, or, pursue establishment of laws and rules that would help people. this last bit, was mentioned in Ra material itself.

service to others is not anarchy.

it doesnt matter whether you 'fear' or 'fear not'. as long as you are not organized, nothing will happen. this principle doesnt change from 1d to 8d of this octave.

actually rather pointless to state this, since it was already mentioned numerous times that there was organization in creation, in Ra material.

the only major and indigenous problem with being a politician on this planet is, it is rather impossible to ascend into any position holding noticeable power, without complying with the existing negatively oriented hierarchy or thought pattern. too many negatively oriented people in power, prevent positively oriented ones from gaining any position that can affect things.

[3DMonkey]

In that light, we would do well to meditate on what true organization of love would look like.