Did FBI just admit to roswell ?

[zenmaster]

well if it's 100 slower then i gotta get busy!

do you think we wanderers if we graduate 4D manage to catch a ride up to our own density if it's higher? or do we have to go through 4D and 5D?

Wanders have already graduated to 4D. They came here to increase the harvest and/or work on balancing. If they get caught in karma, they can go to 3D on another planet. If they polarized negatively they can go to 4D on another planet. If they get displaced due to trickery they can go to 4D, 5D negative.

I don't think a 5D or 6D+ wanderer can wander to 4D+, there is no veil so service would not be helpful.

Each time a wanderer dies, presumably they can go back to native density, although long-term contracts and desire to be of service make them stick around.

[Eddie]

Whitley Strieber was told of this event by General Arthur Exon more than 20 years ago, and has spoken of it many times. This memo confirms Exon's revelations. Whitley writes about the memo and its implications here:

A Game-Changing FBI Memo

[zenmaster]

we know who exactly to blame, and what reason, because it was actually told in Ra material :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#11

8.11 Questioner: Would this type of craft come close to solving many of the energy problems as far as transport goes?

Ra: I am Ra. The technology your peoples possess at this time is capable of resolving each and every limitation which plagues your social memory complex at this present nexus of experience. However, the concerns of some of your beings with distortions towards what you would call powerful energy cause these solutions to be withheld until the solutions are so needed that those with the distortion can then become further distorted in the direction of power.

there are entities that are withholding this from public, in order to use these for personal power purposes. its not something that is dubious or questionable, we are conveyed this information by a reliable informant.

Yes, it's unfortunate that we don't live in a paradise where everyone is a genius and can invent free energy and medical treatments for themselves. But we also 'agreed' to the limitations, otherwise there would be none. The tech suppression, if that's what it is, can't go on forever. People will learn what they want to learn, if they have a will and a desire to learn it. You can't suppress imagination or problem solving if people really want it.

The problem is that, on the whole, they really don't know what they want, or what is good for them. They don't know their circumstances and don't have a desire to do so. This is obvious.

[unity100]

Yes, it's unfortunate that we don't live in a paradise where everyone is a genius and can invent free energy and medical treatments for themselves. But we also 'agreed' to the limitations, otherwise there would be none.

that is not correct. we didnt agree to this kind of limitation. first, any entity from 3d entering 3d, had been practically forced into the veil. any entity incarnating into the planet as wanderers, had agreed to the veil.

however this stays irrelevant - tech suppression is not relevant to veil. tech is available already, its not in a shapeless concept state waiting in time/space - it is invented, and in space/time.

its not that entities cannot discover it themselves either - just that they are suppressed or 'removed' as soon as they do it or attempt to use/spread it.

incarnate entities are doing that, withholding this information, through negatively oriented power structures.

this, was not the plan of logos. ra had said that logos supplies energies needed for survival and the means for survival for early densities, and all the catalyst in the other densities are created and provided to each other by the entities themselves.

so, this 'catalyst' is not something that was in logos's plans, and hence an 'agreement'.

The problem is that, on the whole, they really don't know what they want, or what is good for them. They don't know their circumstances and don't have a desire to do so. This is obvious.

you are talking as if the robber has no guilt, and all the guilt lies on the shoulders of the entity who forgot to lock his/her door.

the guilty and the one to blame, and the one responsible, is the robber here. it doesnt matter whether a door was left unlocked or not - robber shouldnt have robbed.

when there is systematic robbing as in the context we have discussed, yes, it means there is a major problem that is needing to be fixed.

[3DMonkey]

We don't know if a "resolution to every limitation" is what we need. We don't know if such a resolution would offer a lesser opportunity for "distortions toward power." When the veil is lifted, we may be thankful for our limitations we experienced.

----

that is not correct. we didnt agree to this kind of limitation. first, any entity from 3d entering 3d, had been practically forced into the veil. any entity incarnating into the planet as wanderers, had agreed to the veil.

This line of thinking seems to be in jeopardy of a reversion to orange ray. In time/space, we have the benefit of our 6D selves among others. We did agree, or we wouldn't have entered space/time. In essence, we had a "team meeting" and we convinced ourselves of our own contributions to our higher selves (and lower selves) that are made possible here and now. We agreed. You can choose to view it as being forced, or coerced. I choose to think, in time/space, we operate cordially, and it may very well be that we agreed to feel forced. Either way, we are here, in this situation, for some unknown reason.

----
Ra speaks from a sixth density perspective. Although they provide insight for the Logos, they are not 7th/8th Density ambassadors to our Logos.

---

What growth is provided by blaming others? What service is available holding an other responsible?

What's more, Ra could have given us this information. If extraterrestrials are disabling weapons, couldn't they just send a mass email to everyone with an address? Aha! Laws of the universe. Hmmmm. I better find a way to be okay with all this....

[zenmaster]

Yes, it's unfortunate that we don't live in a paradise where everyone is a genius and can invent free energy and medical treatments for themselves. But we also 'agreed' to the limitations, otherwise there would be none.

that is not correct. we didnt agree to this kind of limitation. first, any entity from 3d entering 3d, had been practically forced into the veil. any entity incarnating into the planet as wanderers, had agreed to the veil.

And there is a better system for learning about oneself? I really don't think so. This is all on gracious loan and the free will to do what ever you want is always there if one bothers to learn about their own nature. Meanwhile they get the 'space/time' of the creation that suits their biases. That is the 'agreement'.

however this stays irrelevant - tech suppression is not relevant to veil. tech is available already, its not in a shapeless concept state waiting in time/space - it is invented, and in space/time.

its not that entities cannot discover it themselves either - just that they are suppressed or 'removed' as soon as they do it or attempt to use/spread it.

A big BS on that. The anonymous internet, or mail for that matter, is more than sufficient to massively propagate anyone's tech plans, if they existed, to the masses with zero repercussion.

incarnate entities are doing that, withholding this information, through negatively oriented power structures.

this, was not the plan of logos. ra had said that logos supplies energies needed for survival and the means for survival for early densities, and all the catalyst in the other densities are created and provided to each other by the entities themselves.

so, this 'catalyst' is not something that was in logos's plans, and hence an 'agreement'.

So in other words, it's always the case that we make others invent things that we may need and force them to share, rather than coming up with the things ourselves. The finger pointing is part of the problem, it perpetuates the system. The power is effectively given to the few in this manner. It is learned helplessness, because we refuse to imagine how to solve our own problems. That is a fact, and the real problem.

The problem is that, on the whole, they really don't know what they want, or what is good for them. They don't know their circumstances and don't have a desire to do so. This is obvious.

you are talking as if the robber has no guilt, and all the guilt lies on the shoulders of the entity who forgot to lock his/her door.

Doesn't one have to have something to take in the first place, before it can be taken? What is it, exactly again, that was taken? And who took it? That right, we have no idea whatsoever. That's how mob mentality operates - no visualization of the actual problem, no real questions, and no real solutions. Just wasted accusations. And that mentality is the same one that is ripe for conquest, because it always has its hand out looking to others to solve problems.

[native]

I think it's both. Let's not forget that the veil is heavy here. As nice as it is to say anything is possible as long as the people want it (which is true), discounts the manipulation going on. It's not cut and dry. All you have to do is spark a conversation with someone, not so much about fringe topics but just general intellectual information that illustrates control mechanisms. Whether it be related to health-care, oil, the food industry, the education system etc. No matter how sound your argument is while presenting facts, many just don't get it. It's like you're talking to a wall. They've been dumbed down and programmed. Then of course there are those that are using their knowledge and imagination to solve problems, yet they always encounter resistance.

Will or desire is relative when manipulation is involved. The negative manipulation is strong here benefiting from a heavy veil. This is obvious, because most people wouldn't sensibly desire the conditions we have here. The veil is certainly illuminating our service to self aspects. It shows how easily we develop complacency and allow what's around us to happen. The veil is showing the self quite starkly.

[unity100]

A big BS on that. The anonymous internet, or mail for that matter, is more than sufficient to massively propagate anyone's tech plans, if they existed, to the masses with zero repercussion.

is it ?

internet has only been a reality just recently. indeed, if someone successfully leaks that information or what they have discovered themselves to internet through uncontrollable channels like p2p utilities or mail or others en masse, there may be a means for this information to get tested and get into view of public. it is still debatable how many people got repressed up till this point however, and still questionable whether wikileaks or similar channels may be of help.

however, the harvest is now. the time is up. those who went to suppress, had successfully suppressed that information up until now.

that information was available at the time of tesla's death in 1942.

So in other words, it's always the case that we make others invent things that we may need and force them to share, rather than coming up with the things ourselves. The finger pointing is part of the problem, it perpetuates the system. The power is effectively given to the few in this manner. It is learned helplessness, because we refuse to imagine how to solve our own problems. That is a fact, and the real problem.

there is no relevance in between the first part of your proposition and the latter.

a person who wanted to give all the things he could give, especially free energy, to everyone, had actually invented free energy.

it was suppressed. period. there is no debating that it was suppressed or not - it was.

'finger pointing is part of the problem' -> then why are you reading Ra material which a bunch of other people had worked on, channeled and publicized ? these people could have been killed by the very powers that had been suppressing free energy devices of tesla, when the contact had touched the subject of the ufo craft governments were in possession of - they had started wiretapping l/l group as it was told in book 5, and fortunate holding-back of this information from publication, probably kept them alive.

ra material may have never reached you at any point.

why are you relying/leaning on others' effort then ? shouldnt you channel your own information ?

we are finger pointing, because something someone wanted to gift to all people of the world was suppressed by a few. had Ra material been eradicated in the same manner, there would be similar finger pointing. luckily and fortunately, and maybe rather wisely, it was not suppressed.

[Monica]

But it was already released, from the FBI, about 30 years ago along with other 'disclosure' related info.

In what form? Where and how?

There have been books about UFO with this document in it.

A reprint of the actual document? (as opposed to just mentioning the doc.)

I guess people are happy to see any info, even disinfo as long as it fits their idea what they want for disclosure.

Are you saying you think the doc is disinfo?

[unity100]

Are you saying you think the doc is disinfo?

he is trying to argue that the public attention finally coming onto this document, and irrefutably so, is something that is unimportant because it was available 30 years ago.

[Monica]

A big BS on that. The anonymous internet, or mail for that matter, is more than sufficient to massively propagate anyone's tech plans, if they existed, to the masses with zero repercussion.

I know, from a very reliable source, of people whose lives have been threatened, because they shared info of free energy on the internet. They halted their activities.

[Confused]

I know, from a very reliable source, of people whose lives have been threatened, because they shared info of free energy on the internet. They halted their activities.

That is very sad, Monica.

We largely are a confused race, in my opinion. We know what we really want, but lack the large-scale sustained cooperation, dedication, work ethic, and the personal sacrifice necessary to overcome the almost insuperable hurdles, in terms of seeing projects of STO through.

Our intellectualized cowardice and indifference to others when it really matters is the greatest ally for those on the negative side of things. I, for one, know that I can never amount to anything more than a 'keyboard warrior'. It takes some level of abnegation of self to truly serve others where and/or when it greatly matters, and sadly, most of us just stop before that line, as fear of uncertainties and the dread of the unknown overwhelm.

[zenmaster]

But it was already released, from the FBI, about 30 years ago along with other 'disclosure' related info.

In what form? Where and how?

The document was among several originally realeased via FIO in the 70's. The same document, scanned as a PDF, has been on the FBI's site for at least the past 7 years: http://waybackmachine.org/20041115000000...part01.pdf [waybackmachine.org]

There is a website called UFO Casebook that has it among hundreds of similar FBI documents:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/fbi.html

This particular document is in this batch: http://www.ufocasebook.com/pdf/ufo8.pdf.

There have been books about UFO with this document in it.

A reprint of the actual document? (as opposed to just mentioning the doc.)

Sure. There are actually more interesting documents that are not hearsay, like this one, such as those relating to UFOs on radar, and chases.

I guess people are happy to see any info, even disinfo as long as it fits their idea what they want for disclosure.

Are you saying you think the doc is disinfo?

No. In my opinion it's only a record of what someone interviewed someone as saying what happened. So 3rd hand? It's probably not what happened.

---

A big BS on that. The anonymous internet, or mail for that matter, is more than sufficient to massively propagate anyone's tech plans, if they existed, to the masses with zero repercussion.

I know, from a very reliable source, of people whose lives have been threatened, because they shared info of free energy on the internet. They halted their activities.

Which people had their lives threatened? Did they actually have a working free energy system or was it just one of the dozens of claims of having produced such a system but could not demonstrate due to life threats?

[unity100]

But it was already released, from the FBI, about 30 years ago along with other 'disclosure' related info.

In what form? Where and how?

The document was among several originally realeased via FIO in the 70's. The same document, scanned as a PDF, has been on the FBI's site for at least the past 7 years: http://waybackmachine.org/20041115000000...part01.pdf [waybackmachine.org]

There is a website called UFO Casebook that has it among hundreds of similar FBI documents:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/fbi.html

This particular document is in this batch: http://www.ufocasebook.com/pdf/ufo8.pdf.

what part of 'it is catching the attention of the masses just now' is eluding you ?

its not the availability that is of importance. its that its being brought to attention of those masses.

Sure. There are actually more interesting documents that are not hearsay, like this one, such as those relating to UFOs on radar, and chases.

they arent for the public. a radar image can be dodged by explanations of anything, a chase can be made appear dubious as anything.

roswell is a known famous incident in which actual saucers and aliens were told to be recovered, but heavily denied and ridiculed by government.

admittance to this event, goes beyond any kind of radar image or chase, since the government is admitting to acquiring flying saucers, and alien bodies.

No. In my opinion it's only a record of what someone interviewed someone as saying what happened. So 3rd hand? It's probably not what happened.

it is an official fbi agent, reporting what an official usaf investigator has said. not 'someone' from another 'someone'.

people have been convicted with less.

i dont know why are you arguing this hard to make this document appear unimportant. it isnt.

[Monica]

Which people had their lives threatened?

I don't know names. I just know that the person who told me this has impeccable integrity, so I trust that what he told me is true.

Did they actually have a working free energy system

Yes

---

roswell is a known famous incident in which actual saucers and aliens were told to be recovered, but heavily denied and ridiculed by government.

admittance to this event, goes beyond any kind of radar image or chase, since the government is admitting to acquiring flying saucers, and alien bodies.

Very good point! I'd say that's pretty huge.

[3DMonkey]

I know, from a very reliable source, of people whose lives have been threatened, because they shared info of free energy on the internet. They halted their activities.

That is very sad, Monica.

We largely are a confused race, in my opinion. We know what we really want, but lack the large-scale sustained cooperation, dedication, work ethic, and the personal sacrifice necessary to overcome the almost insuperable hurdles, in terms of seeing projects of STO through.

Our intellectualized cowardice and indifference to others when it really matters is the greatest ally for those on the negative side of things. I, for one, know that I can never amount to anything more than a 'keyboard warrior'. It takes some level of abnegation of self to truly serve others where and/or when it greatly matters, and sadly, most of us just stop before that line, as fear of uncertainties and the dread of the unknown overwhelm.

I feel the same sentiment occasionally. Sometimes I feel that sadness.
Other times... If I had the knowledge of free energy, I would certainly take risk to expose it. Stealthily. Word of mouth could be a start. Planting seeds in peoples minds as to how to achieve it. But is free energy really free? Does it cost nothing to set up whatever it is? Is energy a necessity? Isn't electricity less than 300 years old? We've certainly been polarizing for longer. Food is energy, is it free?

That's an example of how I feel other times. My only real job is to accept things for what they are. This job is difficult for the majority on this planet, electricty spoiled or sustenance rice farmer.

What I'm feeling now is a joy to be alive. It's not my resposibility to change the world. If I love just one, I love all.

---

@ Unity100 and Monica

I never got the impression zenmaster was trying to discredit the letter for it's ability to turn heads. It was my impression that zenmaster was broadening the topic to discuss the effect letters like these have as a solid, long term or far reaching disclosure on society. Part of this includes the idea that individuals have digested this information before, and how such a digestion eventually lies dormant. This is an interesting point of discussion, in my opinion.

Again, from my perspective, zenmaster was not arguing a myopic view on this singular letter. Then again, from my perspective, unity100 was not defending the release of this letter to the masses this entire thread either.

On the case of Roswell, I think we are the only ones interested. The rest just roll their eyes in boredom or shout blasphemy from their invisible box.

I think this letter linked by Unity100 is terrific, and I hope we all keep it up. But on the full scale of disclosure, I think this one is tiny.
For some of us, when it comes to any idea of disclosure, seeing is believing. .... one of my personal tests would be, "has my wife heard about it?". If not ... Meh

[Confused]

If I love just one, I love all.

Yes, technically, that is very right, in my opinion. And it fulfills the requirements for evolution.

And cleverly, most of us will choose our spouse or our offspring(s) or who we perceive to be extensions of our immediately recognizable and personal self.

Nothing wrong with it per se, and it is within the completely legitimate scheme of creation. But if spiritual technicality is all that we care for, the same impersonal universal technicality that sustains or guards us one moment may turn a blind eye to our immense suffering the next. Then, can we accuse the world of being indifferent and apathetic, if someone who could help us did not do so, because he/she was technically fulfilling the laws of evolution elsewhere?

I am not putting the question to you personally at all, 3DM. It is something that I am musing around with, on a personal level, and I am just trying to share my thoughts with a kindred LOO student. Please do not see this as an attack on what you said, because it is not by any stretch of imagination.

[3DMonkey]

I understand. (thank you for disclaimer. I am prone to be sensitive)

I do understand. Completely. When I go down that road, I always wind up at the place where I am responsible for me. It becomes a situation where I must accept the idea that my thoughts are what determine my outlook, and in so doing, all others are under the same scope. Helping others see themselves is what we truly long for. This is the "home" we seek, as I'm seeing it right now. What do we desire more than for every Other to see themselves, and in so doing, escape this darn veil thingy. Alas, we have no power over other individuals. It happens within the individual. Deep down, we struggle with desires of power ourselves. The idea of overpowering the suppressing factions is enticing, but it is not how we would do it, really. If given the chance to sit down with a person in "power", our instinctual tactics would be empathy and compassion. If they won't listen, it's on them, not us.
We do make a difference by loving our family. No job is too small for a collective effort to love. Don't sell yourself short. You are making an impact. You are making an impact.

You are making a positive impact.

[Confused]

I understand. (thank you for disclaimer. I am prone to be sensitive)

I do understand. Completely. When I go down that road, I always wind up at the place where I am responsible for me. It becomes a situation where I must accept the idea that my thoughts are what determine my outlook, and in so doing, all others are under the same scope. Helping others see themselves is what we truly long for. This is the "home" we seek, as I'm seeing it right now. What do we desire more than for every Other to see themselves, and in so doing, escape this darn veil thingy. Alas, we have no power over other individuals. It happens within the individual. Deep down, we struggle with desires of power ourselves. The idea of overpowering the suppressing factions is enticing, but it is not how we would do it, really. If given the chance to sit down with a person in "power", our instinctual tactics would be empathy and compassion. If they won't listen, it's on them, not us.
We do make a difference by loving our family. No job is too small for a collective effort to love. Don't sell yourself short. You are making an impact. You are making an impact.

You are making a positive impact.

Very true, 3DM. You have articulated it rather well. Things are as they are. And you put the sting where it lies - personal responsibility.

And thanks for taking my question in a positive light. I was afraid that you might think I was sort of attacking what you said. My only intention is to learn as much as possible from the wonderful, intelligent, and devoted people that populate this forum. In that process, I may ask a few naive, stupid or even apparently arrogant questions.

But without the questions, how can we attempt to share? I hope I develop the healthy habit of asking and receiving questions with poise and balance.

[3DMonkey]

As the laws of nature go, it's not a good thing to help a butterfly out of it's cacoon. Likewise, it's not the best idea to skip stages in our evolution. It's not the worst idea either, but we might find we were stepping on toes when we see it from time/space.

"How can this be! I must do more! This isn't right!", probably the words Hitler started with .

"Aw, look, a little one in need. I will help her in this moment", probably the words Mother Theresa started with.

---

(I'm not sure who Theresa is, but I imagine she helped orphans. Hehe)

[Confused]

"How can this be! I must do more! This isn't right!", probably the words Hitler started with .

"Aw, look, a little one in need. I will help her in this moment", probably the words Mother Theresa started with.

---

(I'm not sure who Theresa is, but I imagine she helped orphans. Hehe)

3DM, you really have lifted a great burden off my chest, which has been pestering me for a long time. I was shocked actually to read your statements on Hitler and Mother Theresa. I was sort of going down the Hitler route of things, in terms of my mentality and thought processes. Thanks for rescuing me from becoming a Hitler of some sort

Incidentally, Mother Theresa made my country, India, her own farm of service harvest, though she originally hailed from Macedonia (in Eastern Europe/Balkans, I suppose). She was appalled by what she saw here, and thus decided to do something within her power. The rest, as they say, is history.

[zenmaster]

But it was already released, from the FBI, about 30 years ago along with other 'disclosure' related info.

In what form? Where and how?

The document was among several originally realeased via FIO in the 70's. The same document, scanned as a PDF, has been on the FBI's site for at least the past 7 years: http://waybackmachine.org/20041115000000...part01.pdf [waybackmachine.org]

There is a website called UFO Casebook that has it among hundreds of similar FBI documents:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/fbi.html

This particular document is in this batch: http://www.ufocasebook.com/pdf/ufo8.pdf.

what part of 'it is catching the attention of the masses just now' is eluding you ?

its not the availability that is of importance. its that its being brought to attention of those masses.

Not eluding me, I was answering Monica, not even trying to challenge or drive a point.

Sure. There are actually more interesting documents that are not hearsay, like this one, such as those relating to UFOs on radar, and chases.

they arent for the public. a radar image can be dodged by explanations of anything, a chase can be made appear dubious as anything.

But it's on record as an actual event, not hearsay.

roswell is a known famous incident in which actual saucers and aliens were told to be recovered, but heavily denied and ridiculed by government.

admittance to this event, goes beyond any kind of radar image or chase, since the government is admitting to acquiring flying saucers, and alien bodies.

But it's not. I think we see what we want to see, we create the context we want to promote the outcome we want.

No. In my opinion it's only a record of what someone interviewed someone as saying what happened. So 3rd hand? It's probably not what happened.

it is an official fbi agent, reporting what an official usaf investigator has said. not 'someone' from another 'someone'.

The air-force investigator was not the eyewitness. In the course of his investigations, he happened to have interviewed someone that claimed what was written down.

people have been convicted with less.

That's for sure.

i dont know why are you arguing this hard to make this document appear unimportant. it isnt.

In the long run it is. It's really what emphasis we put on it that makes it important, regardless of the actual facts of the case, after all.

[unity100]

But it's on record as an actual event, not hearsay.

let me cast doubt on any random recorded radar image or chase like a professional debunker would : "It was a new secret aircraft in development by usaf"

But it's not. I think we see what we want to see, we create the context we want to promote the outcome we want.

there is a limit to perception. the entities using their brain to make choices, will drop resistance at a certain point. the entities who reverted to orange ray identification behavior, will doggedly deny it, and find ways to deny it. just like the ones who say 'disinfo' about this document out of the blue.

The air-force investigator was not the eyewitness. In the course of his investigations, he happened to have interviewed someone that claimed what was written down.

that is only correct about the last paragraph where the reason for the crash is reported. for the first paragraph, notice the usage of words : "air force investigator STATED that". not 'heard' or 'was reported' or 'has been told'.

[Monica]

I would certainly take risk to expose it. Stealthily. Word of mouth could be a start. Planting seeds in peoples minds as to how to achieve it.

This person did that. He passed on the seeds to someone else. But he had to remove himself from the project because his family was threatened. He had children.

Food is energy, is it free?

Food is free. It just takes some education and work. Each family could easily produce enough food for themselves. Food needn't be an issue.

It's the modern society - needing energy for air conditioners, cars, computers, etc. that is the problem.

We wouldn't need 'free energy' if we had simpler lifetstyles. But how many of us would want to go back to pre-industrial era?

I think this letter linked by Unity100 is terrific, and I hope we all keep it up. But on the full scale of disclosure, I think this one is tiny.
For some of us, when it comes to any idea of disclosure, seeing is believing. .... one of my personal tests would be, "has my wife heard about it?". If not ... Meh

'New' ideas have to start somewhere, before they reach the masses.

[3DMonkey]

I'm sorry, Monica. Anyone who has tried to grow food or raise livestock knows that it is no easy task. It requires more work and effort than working a cash register for forty hours a week, and the reward is much less. It would be virtually impossible for me to grow food to provide everday sustenance for my family. It takes a community. Communities have toiled with this aspect of existence for millenia. Any convenience brightens our existence. Toiling is not what I would call free, anymore than my freedom to work for money.

My thoughts are free. I find value in not looking out into the world and finding "this is a problem."

[@ndy]

It made it's way into the main stream media in the Uk today http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/new...Files.html

On there home page too.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I'm sorry, Monica. Anyone who has tried to grow food or raise livestock knows that it is no easy task. It requires more work and effort than working a cash register for forty hours a week, and the reward is much less. It would be virtually impossible for me to grow food to provide everday sustenance for my family. It takes a community. Communities have toiled with this aspect of existence for millenia. Any convenience brightens our existence. Toiling is not what I would call free, anymore than my freedom to work for money.

My thoughts are free. I find value in not looking out into the world and finding "this is a problem."

This is a very important point. It might be possible for some families to completely sustain themselves with the right knowledge and resources. But it is not realistic for every family

This is where I see myself working in the future...helping communities start sustainable community gardens. Moving into 4D vibes, spreading ideas like community gardens will hopefully become easier, and will be the foundation for a 4D society.

Of course, if you can supplement your family's diet with homegrown food even in the smallest way it will start to relieve pressure from the current system, allowing things to change.

Although, 3DM, I respect and agree with your value of not looking for problems in the world, we must make strides for change to make our society 4D compatible. If we don't try to change anything, especially regarding the systems of financial wealth and food distribution, then we will be caught in 3D concepts that will not sustain us as a planet. We're here at this time because on the other side of the veil, we hoped we would realize this and make the changes.

[Monica]

I'm sorry, Monica. Anyone who has tried to grow food or raise livestock knows that it is no easy task.

Nothing to be sorry for - it's ok to disagree!

I agree that raising livestock is 'no easy task' but I wasn't referring to that since I don't really consider that food.

I was referring to plant foods. There is a movement sweeping across the world right now, teaching people how to grow large amounts of food in small, urban yards.

It requires more work and effort than working a cash register for forty hours a week, and the reward is much less. It would be virtually impossible for me to grow food to provide everday sustenance for my family. It takes a community. Communities have toiled with this aspect of existence for millenia. Any convenience brightens our existence. Toiling is not what I would call free, anymore than my freedom to work for money.

Well I don't really want to derail this thread with a discussion about the merits or practicality of sustainable living. My main point was that the need for free energy is to meet the needs of modern society. We wouldn't need free energy if we had simpler lifestyles and a more efficient food system. The present food system is very inefficient and is polluting the planet.

Whether we actually want to live in a simpler way, is debatable!

By 'simpler' I'm not referring to primitive. We already have technology for sustainable living by utilizing solar, wind, etc. Regarding food, growing fruit trees is easy. A few fruit trees, nut trees, and a vegetable garden is all you need. The extra tomatoes can be traded for the neighbor's extra peaches.

Personally, I would much rather spend 2 hours per day watering my garden, harvesting the produce, etc., and then another 1/2 hour putting the excess fruit in the dehydrator, than work in an office for 8 hours + spend another hour or more stuck in traffic. I find working in the garden pleasant, but working in an office or being stuck in traffic, unpleasant. But that's just me!

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This is a very important point. It might be possible for some families to completely sustain themselves with the right knowledge and resources. But it is not realistic for every family

It would be more difficult for those living in colder climates, to be sure.

This is where I see myself working in the future...helping communities start sustainable community gardens. Moving into 4D vibes, spreading ideas like community gardens will hopefully become easier, and will be the foundation for a 4D society.

I feel very drawn to this vision, and am actively working towards it.

Of course, if you can supplement your family's diet with homegrown food even in the smallest way it will start to relieve pressure from the current system, allowing things to change.

Yes. And you'd be amazed at the huge amount of food that can be grown on even a very tiny yard, once we let go of our attachment to lawns!

we must make strides for change to make our society 4D compatible. If we don't try to change anything, especially regarding the systems of financial wealth and food distribution, then we will be caught in 3D concepts that will not sustain us as a planet.

There is no need to look for problems. They are already completely obvious.

We're here at this time because on the other side of the veil, we hoped we would realize this and make the changes.

Agreed!

[Bring4th_Austin]

This is a very important point. It might be possible for some families to completely sustain themselves with the right knowledge and resources. But it is not realistic for every family

It would be more difficult for those living in colder climates, to be sure.

Remember some don't have any sort of yard to grow in, some without even a balcony to grow potted plants on. Some families, even some communities as a whole, lack the resources to grow their own food.

I absolutely see where you are coming from though, because I can only imagine that the tiniest fraction of families that DO have the resources take advantage of the fact. If we can spread the mindset of working with what we have, we can make a real energetic push in the right direction. I grow more hopeful of this every day.

[Eddie]

This is where I see myself working in the future...helping communities start sustainable community gardens. Moving into 4D vibes, spreading ideas like community gardens will hopefully become easier, and will be the foundation for a 4D society.

I see myself in this role too. I already have one large garden (fortunately, I have a large yard), and am turning new ground for a second one; and I have planted 7 pear trees, 2 apple trees, and 5 peach trees, along with a blackberry bed. Chicken coop may come this summer. One of my friends, who at the age of 51 has never raised a garden, is helping me periodically this spring, in hopes of learning how to raise food. I enjoy teaching people how to do this.

I recycle or re-use just about everything in my yard; grass clippings and hardwood leaves go to mulch, which conserves water and suppresses weeds, in addition to adding some fertility to the garden plot. I cut trees from my hedgerow for firewood, and spread the ashes on the yard and garden as a source of Calcium, Potassium, and Magnesium. If I end up raising chickens, I'll feed excess vegetables from the garden to the chickens, and spread the chicken litter around my fruit trees as fertilizer.

Right now I'm just leading by example, but I will be happy to organize a neighborhood-scale food production effort, should the need ever arise (and it might if food and energy prices keep skyrocketing )