Animal food in diet

[llseeker]

In Oahspe, it says "Selfish behavior, low thoughts, or eating animal derived food will place a newborn angel in the lowest level, being on the earth."
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oahspe:_A_New_Bible) 
Similar saying is in other religions as well.

Ra's comment about diet is:
"The vegetables, the
fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual
metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing
respect for the self.

"
(40.14)

Ra shows positive attitude towards animal products.
And Ra mentioned Oahspe is transmitted from Confederation (14.28). 
But the two opinions are different. Any thoughts?

========= update 10/1 =========
Ra's above comment is for Carla only, not for general. I didn't find more of Ra's comments about animal food so far. If find later, will share.

[meadow-foreigner]

Consider the states that animal food is processed today and the conditions that livestock live. Consider the consciousness that they sustain, imprinted on their meat.

Compare that with an animal grown in a 'normal' ranch. You may then understand both standpoints.

[Diana]

(40.14)

Ra shows positive attitude towards animal products.
And Ra mentioned Oahspe is transmitted from Confederation (14.28). 
But the two opinions are different. Any thoughts?

That quote was not a general one and was for Carla only, which was a frequent subject in the Ra Material due to Carla's ill health. According to people who knew her, she was "addicted to" meat products like hamburgers, and she even recommends meat in her channeling handbook (which, as much as I respect(ed) Carla, I did not think was a good thing to do). This is an indication that those of Ra did not want to infringe upon her free will and instead of recommending meat in her diet (notice they do say meat, but animal products) outright, but said "to the extent needed." I would suggest to ponder that wording.

Speaking to Meadow Foreigner's comments, even from a biological and physiological point of view, the hormones released into the body of the animal during stress (torture, slaughter) are consumed by one who eats the meat. So those protein chains are even on a physical level having an effect.

While this is of course a personal matter, it has to said that using animals for food is not a necessity. Even the UN has said we need to go to a plant-based diet globally or continue down the path of planetary destruction. There are the issues of what is good for the planet we live on, the people here, and the other life forms. And considering that plant life is more geared to being consumed for food (in so many ways), it makes no sense to me to continue farming animals for food (especially the egregious factory-farm process, which, beyond its cruelty has destructive implications for this planet).

And finally, what does your heart tell you? Even the best of animal farming has to slaughter for the meat, or separate cows from their babies to be milk producers, etc. 

More threads on the subject: 

MEAT EATING V PLANT-BASED (VIDEO, BALANCED SPIRITUAL TAKE IN MY OPINION)

WHY I AM NOT A VEGAN

A FRIENDLY CONVERSATION: EXPLORING OMNIVOROUS VS. VEGETARIAN DIET which replaced the original and very involved thread "in regards to eating meat" which was closed and I can't seem to find.

[llseeker]

(40.14)

Ra shows positive attitude towards animal products.
And Ra mentioned Oahspe is transmitted from Confederation (14.28). 
But the two opinions are different. Any thoughts?

That quote was not a general one and was for Carla only, which was a frequent subject in the Ra Material due to Carla's ill health. According to people who knew her, she was "addicted to" meat products like hamburgers, and she even recommends meat in her channeling handbook (which, as much as I respect(ed) Carla, I did not think was a good thing to do). This is an indication that those of Ra did not want to infringe upon her free will and instead of recommending meat in her diet (notice they do say meat, but animal products) outright, but said "to the extent needed." I would suggest to ponder that wording.

Speaking to Meadow Foreigner's comments, even from a biological and physiological point of view, the hormones released into the body of the animal during stress (torture, slaughter) are consumed by one who eats the meat. So those protein chains are even on a physical level having an effect.

While this is of course a personal matter, it has to said that using animals for food is not a necessity. Even the UN has said we need to go to a plant-based diet globally or continue down the path of planetary destruction. There are the issues of what is good for the planet we live on, the people here, and the other life forms. And considering that plant life is more geared to being consumed for food (in so many ways), it makes no sense to me to continue farming animals for food (especially the egregious factory-farm process, which, beyond its cruelty has destructive implications for this planet).

And finally, what does your heart tell you? Even the best of animal farming has to slaughter for the meat, or separate cows from their babies to be milk producers, etc. 

More threads on the subject: 

MEAT EATING V PLANT-BASED (VIDEO, BALANCED SPIRITUAL TAKE IN MY OPINION)

WHY I AM NOT A VEGAN

A FRIENDLY CONVERSATION: EXPLORING OMNIVOROUS VS. VEGETARIAN DIET which replaced the original and very involved thread "in regards to eating meat" which was closed and I can't seem to find.

@Diana, thanks for pointing out that above Ra's comment is for Carla only!

[IndigoSalvia]

As a decades-long veg*n (vegetarian/vegan), I am very curious about how Law of One views killing/consuming 2D beings (which of course includes both animals and plants, and mine is a plant-based diet).

As Diana points out, Ra gives information specific to Carla due to her health issues. Here is another Carla-specific advice. 

84.2 Questioner: In the last session you mentioned least distorted complex protein in that the body complex of the instrument was capable of greatly increased distortion. Would you define the protein of which you spoke and we would like to know, increased distortion in which direction, towards health or ill-health?

Ra: I am Ra. We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible in order to avoid increasing this particular entity’s distortions which may be loosely termed allergic.

I wonder what "loosely termed allergic" means? Could one experience allergy-like distortions (symptoms) from consuming meat?

I understood Ra to be giving advice to Carla specifically here in session 84 (as in other sessions), in as non-infringing manner as possible. 

Ra's info may be applicable to the rest of us humans: plant-based, and to the extent necessary for the individual MBS complex, the least distorted complex protein. And then if deemed necessary, "fresh and best quality possible" animal proteins.  

By its very nature, if/when we consume an animal protein, slaughter of a 2D animal is a given. I know of no way in this 3D illusion to consume animal meat that does not involve killing the animal ... against its will. So it seems to be an infringement upon their free will. 

I kill and consume plants (which are 2D beings) for sustenance of my 3D body, etc. While my 3D brain perceives a seeming difference between killing an animal and a plant, is there a difference in terms of Law of One?  

Do we, as 3D beings, have any "rights" over lower-density life forms (e.g., disregard their free will) under Law of One? Does the Law of Free Will apply to us 3D beings? Or, when does the L of FW start applying? 

Has anyone found any Q'uo information on this topic? 

[Diana]

Ra's info may be applicable to the rest of us humans: plant-based, and to the extent necessary for the individual MBS complex, the least distorted complex protein. And then if deemed necessary, "fresh and best quality possible" animal proteins.  

By its very nature, if/when we consume an animal protein, slaughter of a 2D animal is a given. I know of no way in this 3D illusion to consume animal meat that does not involve killing the animal ... against its will. So it seems to be an infringement upon their free will. 

I kill and consume plants (which are 2D beings) for sustenance of my 3D body, etc. While my 3D brain perceives a seeming difference between killing an animal and a plant, is there a difference in terms of Law of One?  

Do we, as 3D beings, have any "rights" over lower-density life forms (e.g., disregard their free will) under Law of One? Does the Law of Free Will apply to us 3D beings? Or, when does the L of FW start applying? 

Has anyone found any Q'uo information on this topic? 

I don't know of any Q'uo quotes on eating animals, but I would imagine anything there would have a greater chance of being influenced by the channeler since it's conscious channeling.

I do not think humans have any rights at all over other beings. I do think there is at least inference in just the simple phrase "all is one." If all is one, how could one entity have dominion over or rights over another entity? Infringing upon the free will of another, according to the LOO material, is the left-hand path (STS). 

Regarding another inference, on the right-hand path, STO, being of service to others would include in my opinion doing the least harm to others. It isn't possible to traverse 3D as an organic being and not consume food in order to survive. Since plants have evolved to be consumed in order to propagate, they have no central nervous system, they can still live if their fruit is taken, they can still survive even when cut down, etc., simple logic will deduce that eating plants causes less harm than eating animals. 

In addition, Ra speaks of higher density beings consuming light for sustenance. Since plants photosynthesize, they are closer to consuming light than dead animals. So it seems to me eating a plant-based diet is a step forward in evolution.

43.24 ▶ Questioner: I am simply trying to trace the, you might say, the evolution of this catalyst that then, as you say, changes in fifth density. I might as well complete this and ask if there is any ingestion of food in sixth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. However, the nature of this food is that of light and is impossible to describe to you in any meaningful way as regards the thrust of your query.

[schubert]

I kill and consume plants (which are 2D beings) for sustenance of my 3D body, etc. While my 3D brain perceives a seeming difference between killing an animal and a plant, is there a difference in terms of Law of One?  

Do we, as 3D beings, have any "rights" over lower-density life forms (e.g., disregard their free will) under Law of One? Does the Law of Free Will apply to us 3D beings? Or, when does the L of FW start applying? 

Has anyone found any Q'uo information on this topic? 

i don't know if the Ra material addresses these questions, but these questions are answered in the video i linked in this thread: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=19257 (i'll quickly mention that the info comes from a channeled higher consciousness).

[IndigoSalvia]

i don't know if the Ra material addresses these questions, but these questions are answered in the video i linked in this thread: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=19257 (i'll quickly mention that the info comes from a channeled higher consciousness).

Thank you, schubert, for sharing this video. Very interesting information.

[Dtris]

As a decades-long veg*n (vegetarian/vegan), I am very curious about how Law of One views killing/consuming 2D beings (which of course includes both animals and plants, and mine is a plant-based diet).

As Diana points out, Ra gives information specific to Carla due to her health issues. Here is another Carla-specific advice. 

84.2 Questioner: In the last session you mentioned least distorted complex protein in that the body complex of the instrument was capable of greatly increased distortion. Would you define the protein of which you spoke and we would like to know, increased distortion in which direction, towards health or ill-health?

Ra: I am Ra. We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible in order to avoid increasing this particular entity’s distortions which may be loosely termed allergic.

I wonder what "loosely termed allergic" means? Could one experience allergy-like distortions (symptoms) from consuming meat?

I understood Ra to be giving advice to Carla specifically here in session 84 (as in other sessions), in as non-infringing manner as possible. 

Ra's info may be applicable to the rest of us humans: plant-based, and to the extent necessary for the individual MBS complex, the least distorted complex protein. And then if deemed necessary, "fresh and best quality possible" animal proteins.  

By its very nature, if/when we consume an animal protein, slaughter of a 2D animal is a given. I know of no way in this 3D illusion to consume animal meat that does not involve killing the animal ... against its will. So it seems to be an infringement upon their free will. 

I kill and consume plants (which are 2D beings) for sustenance of my 3D body, etc. While my 3D brain perceives a seeming difference between killing an animal and a plant, is there a difference in terms of Law of One?  

Do we, as 3D beings, have any "rights" over lower-density life forms (e.g., disregard their free will) under Law of One? Does the Law of Free Will apply to us 3D beings? Or, when does the L of FW start applying? 

Has anyone found any Q'uo information on this topic? 

I tried vegetarianism and it was unsustainable. I have also tried 0 carb keto, and lasted for nearly two years that way, and sustainably low carb 20-100 carbs per day for even longer.

My view of this, which is based largely on the Ra material, is that any life form used for food should be sincerely thanked for its service, be raised or farmed is the most humane way as possible, and harvested or slaughtered in the manner which causes the least pain or harm as possible. As to morality, the nature of 2nd density life according to Ra is such that animals and plants are part of the group, and do not have individual consciousness. They are attempting to learn individual consciousness and many animals which are raised as pets I believe do so during their life.

I also have done extensive research on diet over the years and health and I am 100% certain that humans evolved to eat meat, and I do not believe it is optimal to go against nature.

Interestingly there has been a growing number of people who have highly allergic reactions who have ended up to a full carnivore diet after following an elimination protocol. The most outspoken is Mikaela Peterson, who had such severe arthritis that she had to have her ankle replaced at the age of 17. She only was able to eliminate her symptoms by eliminating ALL plant based foods and even a lot of meats.

There is also an increase in things like celiac disease and diverticulitis which are caused by grain and seed consumption. Many people achieve relief by eliminating grains and eating more meats and vegetables.

Fundamentally though an allergic reaction is your body reacting with an immune response to what should be a benign substance. Since our thoughts create our reality I can see many people who believe meat eating is immoral, or otherwise wrong creating that type of reaction in themselves. It should also be considered that the 80s and 90s were the height of factory farming and inhumane farming in the US. It wasn't until around 2k when people started looking for humane and naturally raised foods and the organic food movement began.

I don't think we have rights over lower density life forms. I also believe that infringement of this nature is unavoidable. All we can do is to make this as small an infringement a possible. I do not believe that plant based eating is the way to do so. I believe that is largely pushed by the giant agribusiness companies who make more money from selling plants, than meat.

[pat19989]

As a decades-long veg*n (vegetarian/vegan), I am very curious about how Law of One views killing/consuming 2D beings (which of course includes both animals and plants, and mine is a plant-based diet).

As Diana points out, Ra gives information specific to Carla due to her health issues. Here is another Carla-specific advice. 

84.2 Questioner: In the last session you mentioned least distorted complex protein in that the body complex of the instrument was capable of greatly increased distortion. Would you define the protein of which you spoke and we would like to know, increased distortion in which direction, towards health or ill-health?

Ra: I am Ra. We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible in order to avoid increasing this particular entity’s distortions which may be loosely termed allergic.

Has anyone found any Q'uo information on this topic? 

I tried vegetarianism and it was unsustainable. I have also tried 0 carb keto, and lasted for nearly two years that way, and sustainably low carb 20-100 carbs per day for even longer.

My view of this, which is based largely on the Ra material, is that any life form used for food should be sincerely thanked for its service, be raised or farmed is the most humane way as possible, and harvested or slaughtered in the manner which causes the least pain or harm as possible. As to morality, the nature of 2nd density life according to Ra is such that animals and plants are part of the group, and do not have individual consciousness. They are attempting to learn individual consciousness and many animals which are raised as pets I believe do so during their life.

I also have done extensive research on diet over the years and health and I am 100% certain that humans evolved to eat meat, and I do not believe it is optimal to go against nature.

Interestingly there has been a growing number of people who have highly allergic reactions who have ended up to a full carnivore diet after following an elimination protocol. The most outspoken is Mikaela Peterson, who had such severe arthritis that she had to have her ankle replaced at the age of 17. She only was able to eliminate her symptoms by eliminating ALL plant based foods and even a lot of meats.

There is also an increase in things like celiac disease and diverticulitis which are caused by grain and seed consumption. Many people achieve relief by eliminating grains and eating more meats and vegetables.

Fundamentally though an allergic reaction is your body reacting with an immune response to what should be a benign substance. Since our thoughts create our reality I can see many people who believe meat eating is immoral, or otherwise wrong creating that type of reaction in themselves. It should also be considered that the 80s and 90s were the height of factory farming and inhumane farming in the US. It wasn't until around 2k when people started looking for humane and naturally raised foods and the organic food movement began.

I don't think we have rights over lower density life forms. I also believe that infringement of this nature is unavoidable. All we can do is to make this as small an infringement a possible. I do not believe that plant based eating is the way to do so. I believe that is largely pushed by the giant agribusiness companies who make more money from selling plants, than meat.

I am curious as to why vegetarianism was unsustainable for you? I have found it to be quite easy to maintain even when I am expending a lot of calories

[zedro]

I've been living for the past year on a mountain side with cows as my literal neighbours (fence around my camp in the middle of a pasture). I enjoy their company, and they are very curious and seem to want to hang around, despite being skittish sometimes. They live a nice life (not much different from mine right now actually), and eventually they will be harvested into a tasty life sustaining steak that I eat nightly along with my vegetables. The creatures hanging around my camp would not exist otherwise without this purpose, they would not be grazing all day in the fields, they would not huddle together under the trees together when it rains, the calves would not be running around and playing together, they would not experience their own yellow ray hierarchy as the matriarch bellows at them to join in the next pasture, or enjoy the protection of their bull, they would not have the experience of human interactions, for better or for worse. You could claim their existence is that of slavery, to only be productive for the use of humans. You could also claim that of most humans trapped in the same economy of consumption.

Just like with people, there are some environments that are more negative and hostile to their existence, and results in suffering. And that vibrational suffering spreads directly and indirectly to others around them in circumstance. We can try and moralize a difference between 2d and 3d creatures, but I don't think this is a healthy spiritual outlook in general, just as it isn't between humans alone. Everything has a purpose, and to make one thing more 'sacred' or 'innocent' than other to me is the same morality trap that cause undo distortions of self. Awareness is always the main key, and to do you what you can do.

For me, eating meat is still as necessary as it was for my northern ancestors trying to survive the winters, or the elder cultures surviving the ice age, granted that the stakes are much lower thus the hyperbolic statement, but it is the fuel my body is still attuned to, and the service of these creatures is being made available to me for this purpose.

We should know better than to moralize into narrow solutions, and the quote from Oahspe reeks of a control paradigm, even if not intentional.

My neighbour, he stares at me in the evenings.

[IndigoSalvia]

Interestingly there has been a growing number of people who have highly allergic reactions who have ended up to a full carnivore diet after following an elimination protocol. The most outspoken is Mikaela Peterson, who had such severe arthritis that she had to have her ankle replaced at the age of 17. She only was able to eliminate her symptoms by eliminating ALL plant based foods and even a lot of meats.

There is also an increase in things like celiac disease and diverticulitis which are caused by grain and seed consumption. Many people achieve relief by eliminating grains and eating more meats and vegetables.

Fundamentally though an allergic reaction is your body reacting with an immune response to what should be a benign substance. Since our thoughts create our reality I can see many people who believe meat eating is immoral, or otherwise wrong creating that type of reaction in themselves. It should also be considered that the 80s and 90s were the height of factory farming and inhumane farming in the US. It wasn't until around 2k when people started looking for humane and naturally raised foods and the organic food movement began.

To respond to some of Dtris's points - and after watching the video that schubert offered - could one's life choice(s) about what one consumes for sustenance be an integral part of our 3D journey, perhaps even pre-incarnative plan? Is it a distortion that we may gaze upon, and make choices about? 

I don't see that there could be (in this vast, infinite creation) a one-size-fits-all diet for each and every individual MBS complex here on Earth. Further, each individual may experience varying nutritional needs throughout each individual's 3D life span. So, there's not even a one-size-fits-all for each individual, as it grows from conception until its death. 

For me personally, veg*nism is simply my nature. Although, plenty of catalyst has arisen around it, I have never strayed from it because it is so central to me. 

I know and adore many others whose choices are different than mine, whatever they may be. These are their responses to catalyst which have specific meaning to them, and are integral to their own journey. 

Then, I see that all of us beings are indeed, One. I look at all of Us 3D brothers and sisters - and Our 2D plants and animals, which are a part of Us (the one/infinite creator/creation) and also sustain our 3D bodies - and I feel great love for all of Us, and admire each for their own unique journey.

[Spaced]

OAHSPE is a very weird book. Ra talks about how OAHSPE "veils and partially unveils" aspects of the Law of One.

Ra: I am Ra. This was transmitted by one of Confederation social memory complex status whose idea, as offered to the Council, was to use some of the known physical history of the so-called religions or religious distortions of your cycle in order to veil and partially unveil aspects or primal distortions of the Law of One. All names can be taken to be created for their vibrational characteristics. The information buried within has to do with a deeper understanding of love and light, and the attempts of infinite intelligence through many messengers to teach/learn those entities of your sphere.

Having read OAHSPE  I can tell you there is a lot of contradiction with the Ra material. For one thing, Ra is described in OAHSPE as being "the flesh evil" and is used in a few instances in reference to evil, death and materialism.

Take that as you will.

[Dtris]

I am curious as to why vegetarianism was unsustainable for you? I have found it to be quite easy to maintain even when I am expending a lot of calories

Constant feeling of lethargy, intense cravings for meat, dreams of eating meat nightly, weight gain, and generally just being unhappy with my food.

When I went over a year eating 0 carb, the only real issue was occasionally dreaming of potatoes and that there was some exercise that was more difficult due to the diet.

Also it is interesting that it is much easier to be a vegetarian than it is to avoid carbs. Almost everything has sugar of some kind added to it unless you cook it yourself.

[Diana]

Just like with people, there are some environments that are more negative and hostile to their existence, and results in suffering. And that vibrational suffering spreads directly and indirectly to others around them in circumstance. We can try and moralize a difference between 2d and 3d creatures, but I don't think this is a healthy spiritual outlook in general, just as it isn't between humans alone. Everything has a purpose, and to make one thing more 'sacred' or 'innocent' than other to me is the same morality trap that cause undo distortions of self. Awareness is always the main key, and to do you what you can do.

I, personally, am not trying to moralize anything. I leave that to religions. 

What you say above does not scan for me. There is a difference between 2D and 3D creatures. If we proceed from the LOO and what Ra says about densities, 2D beings are not here to make a polarity choice which would include service to others; they are here to individuate in order to graduate to 3D where then the choice is made from that reality. When humans cause suffering to other humans, they are on a level playing field, where seeking to come to terms with polarity choice is the point. When humans use animals and other life forms to play out their lives here in that seeking, it is not consensual. And even though some people justify this to say that animals are agreeing to be of service to us in this way, it does not line up with Ra's descriptions of densities since animals are not choosing polarity (service to others).

And with no reference to Ra or the LOO, still, humanity is like a bully in this world, because we can be due to our developed brains and neocortex. We endeavor to control and manipulate the environment and the life on it for our own purposes. The other life forms on this planet are literally our victims and have no say in the matter. And just look where that control and manipulation have gotten us to at this point. We have nearly destroyed the very planet we live on in our stupidity.

For me, eating meat is still as necessary as it was for my northern ancestors trying to survive the winters, or the elder cultures surviving the ice age, granted that the stakes are much lower thus the hyperbolic statement, but it is the fuel my body is still attuned to, and the service of these creatures is being made available to me for this purpose.

Just because things were the way they were in the past is not justification for how things might be now, or evolution, mutation, change would never move forward. 

Meat may be fuel, but it is your choice to feed your body this type of fuel. There are ramifications to everything we do. I agree that it is really important to honor the body. But that is one aspect of the whole picture of reality.

People are used to eating meat which gives the impression they need it. Habit and addiction might also be considered.

[Dtris]

And with no reference to Ra or the LOO, still, humanity is like a bully in this world, because we can be due to our developed brains and neocortex. We endeavor to control and manipulate the environment and the life on it for our own purposes. The other life forms on this planet are literally our victims and have no say in the matter. And just look where that control and manipulation have gotten us to at this point. We have nearly destroyed the very planet we live on in our stupidity.

I quoted this part because I believe this exemplifies a common theme in many spiritual circles. This theme is basically viewing humanity as some sort of evil as a whole. I completely disagree with this. Leaving out anything else, if you view humanity as a whole as evil, you view yourself and all your family and friends as evil by extension. This is just another version of original sin, just with an environmentalist or conservationist garb.

[Diana]

And with no reference to Ra or the LOO, still, humanity is like a bully in this world, because we can be due to our developed brains and neocortex. We endeavor to control and manipulate the environment and the life on it for our own purposes. The other life forms on this planet are literally our victims and have no say in the matter. And just look where that control and manipulation have gotten us to at this point. We have nearly destroyed the very planet we live on in our stupidity.

I quoted this part because I believe this exemplifies a common theme in many spiritual circles. This theme is basically viewing humanity as some sort of evil as a whole. I completely disagree with this. Leaving out anything else, if you view humanity as a whole as evil, you view yourself and all your family and friends as evil by extension. This is just another version of original sin, just with an environmentalist or conservationist garb.

I never said I view humanity as evil. And I am not any other label either. Nor do I single out myself, friends, family and people I know as more worthy of consideration than anyone or anything else, so the argument that I might inadvertently lump them in as evil too would hold no sway with me, even if humanity being evil in nature was what I meant. I just observe and make conclusions or suppositions. If you don't think we have made bad choices as a species regarding the stewardship of our environments then we have no common ground from which to converse. Certainly the 2D life forms on this planet aren't responsible.

[Dtris]

And with no reference to Ra or the LOO, still, humanity is like a bully in this world, because we can be due to our developed brains and neocortex. We endeavor to control and manipulate the environment and the life on it for our own purposes. The other life forms on this planet are literally our victims and have no say in the matter. And just look where that control and manipulation have gotten us to at this point. We have nearly destroyed the very planet we live on in our stupidity.

I quoted this part because I believe this exemplifies a common theme in many spiritual circles. This theme is basically viewing humanity as some sort of evil as a whole. I completely disagree with this. Leaving out anything else, if you view humanity as a whole as evil, you view yourself and all your family and friends as evil by extension. This is just another version of original sin, just with an environmentalist or conservationist garb.

I never said I view humanity as evil. And I am not any other label either. Nor do I single out myself, friends, family and people I know as more worthy of consideration than anyone or anything else, so the argument that I might inadvertently lump them in as evil too would hold no sway with me, even if humanity being evil in nature was what I meant. I just observe and make conclusions or suppositions. If you don't think we have made bad choices as a species regarding the stewardship of our environments then we have no common ground from which to converse. Certainly the 2D life forms on this planet aren't responsible.

You was being used in the universal sense. I meant to add that to the post but was at work and got distracted.

However, with that caveat, your language indicates that you view yourself, and everyone else, as being just as culpable for whatever shortcoming you are assigning to something as nebulous as humanity. The portions which lead me to that conclusion are bolded.

As a rule I try not to post things that are targeted at individual posters and was not attempting to do so before. I have indicated your own language as this is an example of the type of language that is used in many spiritual circles which can be hard to notice but subtly influence your belief structure . Your view is of the same type as the one I was referring to, individual nuances aside. I am in no position to say your beliefs are accurate or inaccurate. It is obvious we disagree on this, but if we all agreed on everything life would be very boring.

If you think we have no common ground to converse, we are on a forum with a very specific focus after all, there is at least some common ground to work with.

[IndigoSalvia]

What happens to this conversation when we view ourselves (everything 1D-3D that we can perceive as we gaze around us which reside on this marvelous Earth) as One, infinitely-faceted being?

Our seeming (illusory) distinctions fall away. Then, we see that one part of Ourself eats (uses or consumes in some way) another part of Ourself? We all do this because our 3D bodies would cease to exist otherwise.

We are both the consumers and the consumed; we are both the life-giving properties and the life-taking properties. Thich Nhat Hanh shares this notion much more beautifully than I can in his poem, "Please Call Me By My True Names" (see below).

How do we walk through this 3D incarnation as both the illusory, distinct individuals that we are, as well as the One that We are (as the veil slowly starts to evaporate and we continue to transition to 4D)? How do we reconcile our seeming differences?

I propose that there is much common ground here, if for no other reason: We are One.

Here is another patch of common ground: when we look deeper, we may see that both ourselves and others care about ourselves very much; thus, we want to take the best care of our physical bodies, so we may thrive. The specifics of how we "take care of ourselves" may be different, but the love is common. 

This is one of my favorite poems. To listen to Thay read it himself: https://plumvillage.org/articles/please-...song-poem/

Please Call Me by My True Names by Thich Nhat Hanh

Don’t say that I will depart tomorrow —
even today I am still arriving.

Look deeply: every second I am arriving
to be a bud on a Spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with still-fragile wings,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.

I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
to fear and to hope.

The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death
of all that is alive.

I am the mayfly metamorphosing
on the surface of the river.
And I am the bird
that swoops down to swallow the mayfly.

I am the frog swimming happily
in the clear water of a pond.
And I am the grass-snake
that silently feeds itself on the frog.

I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks.
And I am the arms merchant,
selling deadly weapons to Uganda.

I am the twelve-year-old girl,
refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean
after being raped by a sea pirate.
And I am the pirate,
my heart not yet capable
of seeing and loving.

I am a member of the politburo,
with plenty of power in my hands.
And I am the man who has to pay
his “debt of blood” to my people
dying slowly in a forced-labor camp.

My joy is like Spring, so warm
it makes flowers bloom all over the Earth.
My pain is like a river of tears,
so vast it fills the four oceans.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and my laughter at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart
can be left open,
the door of compassion.

[zedro]

I, personally, am not trying to moralize anything...

...When humans use animals... it is not consensual.....some people justify this....humanity is like a bully in this world.... We endeavor to control and manipulate ... The other life forms on this planet are literally our victims ... look where that control and manipulation have gotten us .... We have nearly destroyed the very planet we live on in our stupidity...the past is not justification ...There are ramifications to everything we do...People are used to....the impression they need it...Habit and addiction...

[MonadicSpectrum]

Personally, I believe the best diet is the intuitive diet that specifically meets the unique needs of each individual. That said, I believe that humanity is evolving towards a state in fourth density that only requires light and air, and I see veganism as a stepping stone on that path. If one cannot even refrain from eating meat, one is unlikely to learn to refrain from eating in general.

Eat everything -> vegetarian -> vegan -> fruitarian -> liquidarian -> breatharian

I believe a small group of people (order of tens) today have already mastered breatharianism although it will probably take on the order of hundreds of years for the collective to fully transition. I also see it as a significant choice in service-to-other polarization to minimize the harm caused by the self to at least choose to not purchase factory farmed meat. I recommend the book Lessons From a Living Lemuria if you want to learn more about the relationship between nutrition, karma, and ascension to fourth density.

[schubert]

people eat a diet that aligns with their frequency. when you raise your frequency, you naturally become more attracted and compatible with higher vibrational foods such as fruits and vegetables. it goes both ways as well. if someone is actively developing along a spiritual path (not necessarily learning a bunch of stuff but healing, releasing suppressed energy, forgiving, developing more compassion and unity), they're more likely to feel a pull to transition their diet, and if someone transitions their diet, they're more likely to feel a pull to spiritual things (if they're ready and open to that).

[Dtris]

Personally, I believe the best diet is the intuitive diet that specifically meets the unique needs of each individual. That said, I believe that humanity is evolving towards a state in fourth density that only requires light and air, and I see veganism as a stepping stone on that path. If one cannot even refrain from eating meat, one is unlikely to learn to refrain from eating in general.

Eat everything -> vegetarian -> vegan -> fruitarian -> liquidarian -> breatharian

I believe a small group of people (order of tens) today have already mastered breatharianism although it will probably take on the order of hundreds of years for the collective to fully transition. I also see it as a significant choice in service-to-other polarization to minimize the harm caused by the self to at least choose to not purchase factory farmed meat. I recommend the book Lessons From a Living Lemuria if you want to learn more about the relationship between nutrition, karma, and ascension to fourth density.

I personally think almost every case of breatharian is a scammer. A lot of fruitarians binge eat non fruits, then feel guilty and go back to fruit only. This is my first time seeing liquidarian.

I do think there are rare cases of people who are either blessed or have developed the self enough to need little to no food, I also don't see these people going around espousing how their diet is good or telling people to follow them.

I don't personally think that humanity will transfer to breatharianism at all. Ra said that 4th thru 6th density still eats foodstuffs appropriate for that density. My view is that once 4th density quantum leap truly happens 4th density humanity will naturally eat the food they need to eat.

The cases of people not needing food and water I believe are a case of rare wanderers and adepts who are helping to polarize the world by their example.

[MonadicSpectrum]

I personally think almost every case of breatharian is a scammer. A lot of fruitarians binge eat non fruits, then feel guilty and go back to fruit only. This is my first time seeing liquidarian.

I do think there are rare cases of people who are either blessed or have developed the self enough to need little to no food, I also don't see these people going around espousing how their diet is good or telling people to follow them.

I don't personally think that humanity will transfer to breatharianism at all. Ra said that 4th thru 6th density still eats foodstuffs appropriate for that density. My view is that once 4th density quantum leap truly happens 4th density humanity will naturally eat the food they need to eat.

The cases of people not needing food and water I believe are a case of rare wanderers and adepts who are helping to polarize the world by their example.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I definitely believe there are scammers out there regarding breatharianism so it's wise to be discerning with the information and never push yourself beyond what is healthy. A liquidarian would be someone who uses juice as the primary method of sustenance. Personally, I think it's not necessarily best to view these labels as identity as much as general patterns of eating where one can move back and forth based on one's desires and needs. I've definitely had much success with improving my health by experimenting with eating mostly a vegan diet as well as fasting periodically, but I occasionally eat meat or eggs that are prepared by friends and family.

You inspired me to look into Ra's description of nutrition in higher densities, and there are some interesting insights.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

https://www.lawofone.info/s/16#50

The fourth-density being desires to serve and the preparation of foodstuffs is extremely simple due to increased communion between entity and living foodstuff. Therefore, this is not a significant catalyst but rather a simple precondition of the space/time experience. The catalyst involved is the necessity for the ingestion of foodstuffs. This is not considered to be of importance by fourth-density entities and it, therefore, aids in the teach/learning of patience.

https://www.lawofone.info/s/43#18

Questioner: I’m guessing that it is not necessary to ingest food in fifth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. However, the vehicle needs food which may be prepared by thought.

43.21 ▶ Questioner: What type of food would this be?

Ra: I am Ra. You would call this type of food nectar, or ambrosia, or a light broth of golden white hue.

https://www.lawofone.info/s/43#20

It's difficult to understand what food means exactly in a physical vehicle that is not heavy chemically based, but I can imagine a transformation to the point where what we call food consumption is entirely different than how we currently perceive it especially in fifth density where it is created with thought. It sounds like in fourth density, the food that we need to eat is grown directly by the organisms such as plants all around us without much labor needed to process the food we need. I could also see it as eating is only necessary when there are imbalances to correct in our bodies and needing to consume foodstuffs at a much lower rate than we do in third density.

[zedro]

The mention of space/time is the giveaway, just as we need celestial bodies to operate/represent as the clockwork mechanisms to create "randomness" or "patterns" (i.e. there is no such thing as a true random number generator), we need a "physical mechanism" to maintain "life". In the higher densities it seems to be more symbolic (conscientious intention) to remain alive. If you think of it as a computer simulation, you need specific relevant code input to maintain the avatar. The mechanism of the logos to maintain higher order life is to absorb lower order life, i.e. 1st density elements (earth, air, fire, water) create 2nd density elements (fauna or flora) to be consciously absorbed by 3rd density beings. This juxtaposition would seem to transform slightly at the 4th density divide.

[pat19989]

Fruits are the only forms designed to be eaten. Every animal has evolved over millions of years, getting better at not being eaten.

As a being who is conscious of myself, and of other individual entities belonging to the collective consciousness of our planet, I find it difficult to consistently eat meat in good conscious, especially if I do not know where it came from.

I do still eat meat occasionally, especially when I am with my family of meat-eaters.

Eat meat or don't eat meat, but I really love how much consideration is being put into our food these days. My parents grew up eating canned food and carcinogens and never questioned a thing. The conscious consideration by increasingly more of us about our nutrition and ethical consumption is a huge step toward unity with the collective.

My digestive system has been giving me great trouble these past couple weeks, feel like I need to fast, but am a little afraid to go all in with it. I'd like to go at least a couple days on the lemon juice, cayenne, water, and maple syrup mixture. Does anyone have any experiences with these types of fasts or similar? My main goal is to give my digestive system a break and to challenge my ego.

[schubert]

My digestive system has been giving me great trouble these past couple weeks, feel like I need to fast, but am a little afraid to go all in with it. I'd like to go at least a couple days on the lemon juice, cayenne, water, and maple syrup mixture. Does anyone have any experiences with these types of fasts or similar? My main goal is to give my digestive system a break and to challenge my ego.

hello i have a few resources you might find helpful regarding fasting and ways to give your digestive system a break. https://www.medicalmedium.com/blog/truth-about-fasting | https://www.facebook.com/medicalmedium/v...6094776670 (this is a long video from a livestream but you can look into mono eating cleanses in general). for something less intense than a mono eating cleanse yet still extremely powerful, you could also consider the 'morning cleanse' https://www.medicalmedium.com/blog/medic...ng-cleanse

[flofrog]

I second schubert on medical medium...

[Diana]

My digestive system has been giving me great trouble these past couple weeks, feel like I need to fast, but am a little afraid to go all in with it. I'd like to go at least a couple days on the lemon juice, cayenne, water, and maple syrup mixture. Does anyone have any experiences with these types of fasts or similar? My main goal is to give my digestive system a break and to challenge my ego.

I have done the lemonaide diet for a couple of weeks at a time few times. I felt fine while on it. I even traveled once while on it to Seattle for a long weekend, and brought containers of the mixture with me. I have to admit that I did have coffee while there, as the the hotel I was in was on a city block, and that block had a coffee cafe on every side of the block wafting delicious coffee smells.

I have done many cleanses as well while eating and fasting. The most important foods to avoid while doing a cleanse are meat and dairy (due to the toxic reaction the human body has to these foods). These cleanses—I can highly recommend Robert Gray and Arise and Shine as I have done both and they both work really well—include herbal supplements to soften trapped materials in the digestive tract, such as sludgy or blocked ducts as well as clearing out the intestines, etc., and psyllium to pull out those materials, and more things to optimize the cleanse such as bentonite clay and probiotics afterwards to replenish flora. 

Another idea from a friend as part of her spiritual practice is to give the digestive tract a rest by water fasting one day each week.

[flofrog]

Fasting one day a week was pretty prevalent in Europe in the past centuries. At least for those who had food to eat..

I like your report Diana, thank you

It's all about plumbing really.