Removing the veil of separation

[Anders]

Everything that we believe is only a concept of Mind, and the Mind creating answers to something that is incomprehensible.

There is a good point in this you mentioned I believe in that there is risk of endless seeking in the form of conceptual understanding. So I sometimes listen to the hardcore nonduality teachers like Tony Parsons.

[Ming the Merciful]

@Ming the Merciful We can use concepts I believe to transcend conceptual understanding, like Ramakrishna said to use a thorn to remove another thorn and then throwing them both away. Teachings like the Law of One are useful for expanding our sense of possibilities even if it's just conceptual understanding. Also, there is a risk of mistaking a partial awakening for a full awakening. As long as we are still in yellow-ray bodies I believe we still need conceptual knowledge as a tool for moving into a green-ray body. And the veil can be seen as that which blocks that transition.

Yes, I agree, we can use concepts, except do not cling to them, or see them as "Absolutes". There are no Absolutes from that perspective. A Philosophy is only created to bring an incomprehensible concept to the lower Intellectual Mind. All the Philosophies taught by the Great Teachers were only explaining the Spiritual Essence at the lowest common denominator. Their true teachings were always on a higher Spiritual level, (reading between the lines). Zen is the perfect example. In Zen we were taught that the moment we learned a new Spiritual Understanding, to destroy it. At the moment a new truth is discovered, we will cling to it, considering it as the new "Ultimate Truth". There can be nothing greater than this? Once we have an understanding of our newly found Knowledge, discard it and return to finding an even deeper meaning, (where new Truth is hidden). The fact is, we never will find the "Ultimate Knowledge", because the more we understand, the less we know. That too is part of the acceptance. Once we accept that, then Knowledge comes more easily because we have opened our Mind to other possibilities. Never think that you are at the pinnacle of your understanding, because that will never happen. Spirituality is eternal and boundless.

[Anders]

@Ming the Merciful One strategy I use is to take in all kinds of spiritual and non-spiritual information and then connect dots. So I'm quite surprised to find that much of what Ra says in the Law of One fits into that picture. That makes me think that the Law of One has genuine and advanced knowledge.

I heard that in Zen there are stages such as described as the 10 ox herding pictures. J. Krishnamurti rejected all spiritual teachings, teachers and authorities. I try to follow that (without taking Krishnamurti as an authority of course).

[Anders]

I came to think of how some people may benefit from following one particular teaching. Nonduality teacher Roger Castillo who was a student of hardcore nonduality teacher Ramesh Balsekar was asked a question about what the thought about the even more hardcore nonduality teaching of Tony Parsons.

Roger said that some teachings can fit some people and other teachings fit other people. And there are levels of teachings, Roger said. So if we look for consistency in spiritual teachings that can be a mistake. As an example he mentioned how in A Course in Miracles it first teaches one thing and then later it changes to another thing! It depends on the level of the student.

[Anders]

Something I find very important in the Law of One teachings is the vast cosmic scale of evolution. Why? Because it can remove the fear of time. Sure, religions have the idea of an eternal life in heaven, but I suspect that's a really scary idea at least on a subconscious level.

For some of us physical death may be impossible! That can be an extremely scary thought. How would you like to celebrate your 1,000,000,000,000th birthday? And to realize that you have an infinite number of birthdays still to live through. So finding peace in relation to eternal life is I think a must.

With an evolution into higher and higher densities as the Law of One teaches, and with new possibilities in the form of octaves, the idea of living forever at least becomes much more manageable than the belief in a heaven or eternal life through transhumanism.

[Ming the Merciful]

I came to think of how some people may benefit from following one particular teaching. Nonduality teacher Roger Castillo who was a student of hardcore nonduality teacher Ramesh Balsekar was asked a question about what the thought about the even more hardcore nonduality teaching of Tony Parsons.

Roger said that some teachings can fit some people and other teachings fit other people. And there are levels of teachings, Roger said. So if we look for consistency in spiritual teachings that can be a mistake. As an example he mentioned how in A Course in Miracles it first teaches one thing and then later it changes to another thing! It depends on the level of the student.

Nonduality is the perfect example because the theory is, everything is complete and there is no need to search for Knowledge. I only discovered that a few months ago. It also depends on the individual evolution and their place in understanding Knowledge. If you accept everything, AS IT IS, then we have already achieved the Absolute. Although there are also different levels of Enlightenment. That too can be a diversification because it becomes a stumbling block, and not a step upwards. The point is, if you accept the AS IT IS, as complete, (and it depends on the individual), they create a different interpretation on an agreed possibility. Even in Nonduality, is not to make assumptions and conclusions, because it then becomes a clinging. Any Philosophical concept must always be viewed from the "Neutral". Or, in Zen. Accept everything, and then destroy everything. Neutrality is probably the deepest teaching in Zen. If we observe every observation, (of Philosophy), from a "Neutral Viewpoint", then we are not persuaded by a positive or negative reaction to the viewpoint. Accepting and not accepting, and the neutrality of neither. All three aspects are correct, and also not correct. Meanwhile, we remain in the Neutral Viewpoint, because we are not clinging to association.

[Anders]

@Ming the Merciful The hardcore nonduality teachings say that there isn't anybody who can do anything, not even accept or not accept what is. I think they have a point. However my own approach is to expect that the Creator is infinite intelligence, and we are the Creator! So things will get better is my belief. And that's consistent with the Law of One which says that third density in which humanity is at the moment is a very tough yet short evolutionary stage seen from a cosmic perspective.

[Ming the Merciful]

@Ming the Merciful The hardcore nonduality teachings say that there isn't anybody who can do anything, not even accept or not accept what is. I think they have a point. However my own approach is to expect that the Creator is infinite intelligence, and we are the Creator! So things will get better is my belief. And that's consistent with the Law of One which says that third density in which humanity is at the moment is a very tough yet short evolutionary stage seen from a cosmic perspective.

I agree Anders. We are stranded inside a "Goldfish Bowl", looking out to something strange and unfamiliar. If we believe in the principles of the Law of One, then we are already the Creator, (or a sheep in wolf clothing). By design, we decided to return to Earth to rediscover our Consciousness, and Self-Awareness. Or as it says in the Bhagavad-Gita, our return to the Godhead, and passing through countless incarnations until we reach perfection. The thing I discovered from Eastern Philosophy, (Hinduism and Buddhism), is that the statement of "Perfection" does not have the same connotations in the West as it has in the East. From the Eastern perspective Spirituality is not something that is to be perceived as special. The fact of a Higher State of Consciousness is only that. Not placed on a pedestal as in the West.

We were put in the goldfish bowl, We better get used to it, because there is nothing we can do until we find a way out.

A one-way ticket to the Transmutation to Fourth Density please.

[Anders]

As an example of hardcore nonduality teachings, here is a recent video by Kenneth Madden:

At first I found teachings like that too extreme, but I have started to appreciate them as useful for anchoring one end of the spiritual spectrum.

[Ming the Merciful]

Mooji. Also another Enlightened Teacher.

[Anders]

@Ming the Merciful Yes, I have listened a lot to Mooji. I find him similar to Eckhart Tolle in terms of nonduality.

Ra also basically teaches nonduality, such as:

"Questioner: [The question was lost because the questioner was sitting too far from the tape recorder to be recorded.]

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.

That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.

In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

May we enunciate this law in more detail?" - Law of One 1.7

[Anders]

Ra saying that there is no right or wrong can be explained I think by how Leo Gura makes a distinction between Truth and true/false. The Truth is absolute and is the direct awareness of reality, whereas true and false are relative concepts.

So with that kind of pattern, one can say that there is only what is Right in an absolute sense and that right and wrong are relative concepts. The veil traps us into only being aware of the relative right vs wrong worldview, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

[Ming the Merciful]

@Ming the Merciful Yes, I have listened a lot to Mooji. I find him similar to Eckhart Tolle in terms of nonduality.

Ra also basically teaches nonduality, such as:

"Questioner: [The question was lost because the questioner was sitting too far from the tape recorder to be recorded.]

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.

That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.

In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

May we enunciate this law in more detail?" - Law of One 1.7

Thank you Anders, what a quotation. Not only is it Law of One, it is pure Zen. On the other hand, since i discovered the "Law of One", I simply thought that it was another sheep wearing a new set of clothes. It is the same, (and identical). Zen has the same connotations. Are they both not Universal? Trying to explain Zen, is no different than explaining Law of One. On a basic level we can understand. It is like a child in kindergarten trying to comprehend String Theory or Dark Matter and Dark Energy. They do not have the capacity to do it because it is beyond anything they comprehend. Once we accept the pure "Oneness", then everything, (naturally), falls into place.

In Zen there is the symbology of the Yin-Yang symbol. When it is folded in half, and onto itself, opposites no longer exist and are destroyed. The destruction. Simultaneously, it is also recreation in the moment. Existing and not existing simultaneously. The Law of One is the same, in the effect of the Veil. The Veil exists and does not exist simultaneously. Once we cross the divide, we have crossed the Veil, (in the context of Unity). The all-encompassing Oneness and Nothingness. The Zen of no Zen.

[Anders]

Is it arrogant hubris or delusion of grandeur of the Catholic Church to claim that the Pope is infallible? No, because we are all infallible! Haha. It's the veil that causes us to believe that we can make mistakes, or that accidents can happen etc.

And Jesus said that we should be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Well, excuse me Jesus, but we are already perfect. Or more seriously, what Jesus meant I think is that we should realize that we already are perfect. Very difficult thing to do in today's messy world.

[Ming the Merciful]

Is it arrogant hubris or delusion of grandeur of the Catholic Church to claim that the Pope is infallible? No, because we are all infallible! Haha. It's the veil that causes us to believe that we can make mistakes, or that accidents can happen etc.

And Jesus said that we should be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Well, excuse me Jesus, but we are already perfect. Or more seriously, what Jesus meant I think is that we should realize that we already are perfect. Very difficult thing to do in today's messy world.

I would be a bad Catholic. My Path started in Pentecostalism, and then I rebelled and discovered ISKCON. There is too much radicalism in me to believe anything. Okay, I do believe in Zen, except I reach my own conclusions. Is that not the point of Zen? There is nothing I enjoy more than a good Philosophical argument, and disproving something. There are those that say, that Jesus was the reincarnation of Krishna and there, (somewhere), is evidence, (supposedly), in India. I also follow the theory that the "God(s)" are Alien Beings. In some schools of thought, there are those that say that the Vedas were Alien inspired.

Who are we to argue. Pay homage to the Alien God(s)

.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Is it arrogant hubris or delusion of grandeur of the Catholic Church to claim that the Pope is infallible? No, because we are all infallible! Haha. It's the veil that causes us to believe that we can make mistakes, or that accidents can happen etc.

And Jesus said that we should be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Well, excuse me Jesus, but we are already perfect. Or more seriously, what Jesus meant I think is that we should realize that we already are perfect. Very difficult thing to do in today's messy world.

I would be a bad Catholic. My Path started in Pentecostalism, and then I rebelled and discovered ISKCON. There is too much radicalism in me to believe anything. Okay, I do believe in Zen, except I reach my own conclusions. Is that not the point of Zen? There is nothing I enjoy more than a good Philosophical argument, and disproving something. There are those that say, that Jesus was the reincarnation of Krishna and there, (somewhere), is evidence, (supposedly), in India. I also follow the theory that the "God(s)" are Alien Beings. In some schools of thought, there are those that say that the Vedas were Alien inspired.

Who are we to argue. Pay homage to the Alien God(s)

.

....or to the alien god in the mirror?

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Is it arrogant hubris or delusion of grandeur of the Catholic Church to claim that the Pope is infallible? No, because we are all infallible! Haha. It's the veil that causes us to believe that we can make mistakes, or that accidents can happen etc.

And Jesus said that we should be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Well, excuse me Jesus, but we are already perfect. Or more seriously, what Jesus meant I think is that we should realize that we already are perfect. Very difficult thing to do in today's messy world.

"Well, excuse me Jesus,"
Lol this made me laugh so hard.....cute.

[Anders]

The Veil exists and does not exist simultaneously. Once we cross the divide, we have crossed the Veil, (in the context of Unity).

I guess one can say that. It's similar to Leo Gura's absolute Truth vs true/false. One can use the same principle for everything being absolute Perfection which includes the relative perfection/imperfection duality.

There is absolute Unity without a veil which includes the relative veil/unveiled duality.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

You guys (girls? who cares, anyway,) have excellent points and some funny twist of words. True and funny.

[Anders]

Spiritual teachers often say that there is a difference between suffering and pain. And I can see that adding mental and emotional agony to physical pain increases the suffering, but I don't see how removing the mental suffering will remove the physical pain.

However, I now heard Vernon Howard saying that when we win or we lose it's the same kind of emotional thrill! If he is correct then psychological suffering is indeed dependent on our mental interpretation of situations and events.

[Anders]

The veil causes fear. I recently felt fear in my heart area, maybe because of contemplating time in scary ways, and then later the fear was gone! I found that suspicious, when the fear was replaced by something more like numbness than a feeling of peace.

What happens with fear I now suspect is that it becomes numbed out over time and pushed down into the subconscious. So the fear is still there only that it has become hidden from conscious awareness. That's even worse than the fear that can be felt, since numbness is dangerous when prolonged of chronic. I will try to come up with some technique to reverse that process and heal the fear instead of making it subconscious.

[Anders]

The veil is a form of illusion based on the belief in separation. It's like for example money which gets its value just because we humans agree that it has value. It's essentially an illusion.

There is a saying that FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real. I think there is truth to that statement. Our current human civilization runs on fear, like a 'Matrix' turning us into fear-batteries and then sucks energy from us in the form of loosh.

Fear it seems to me is low entropy, meaning order. So isn't that good? Isn't order better than disorder? Yes, but it's society that wins at the expense of us humans struggling against an increase of entropy (disorder) through fear as a way of bringing order. So it's an incomplete and lopsided form of order. Low entropy is cold temperature and high entropy is warm temperature. And I can actually feel my fear as a cold temperature! So the trick then is to melt the coldness of fear and turn it into inner peace. This requires transcending entropy, which I believe can be done through realization of wholeness and unity.

[Anders]

I see our human civilization as an artificial overlay. A form of illusion. A necessary and useful illusion for producing creativity and uniqueness. Yet since it's an illusion detached from the unity of reality is also produces a lot of suffering. Ra says:

"Questioner: How have they been able to keep this a secret? Why aren’t these craft in use for transport?

Ra: The governments of each of your societal division illusions desire to refrain from publicity so that the surprise may be retained in case of hostile action from what your peoples call enemies." - Law of One 8.8

It goes even deeper than that. What we call natural is also a part of the illusion. Also this one useful and valuable. And Ra has a similar description:

"Ra: I am Ra. The principle of crystal healing is based upon an understanding of the hierarchical nature of the structure of the illusion which is the physical body, as you would call it." - Law of One 2.3

So the veil goes deep down into our history. Here I found one of Ra's answers about the veil.

"Questioner: I would like to carry that on to find out what specific functions of the mind were most effectual and the three or four most effective changes brought about to create the polarization.

Ra: I am Ra. This is an interesting query. The primary veiling was of such significance that it may be seen to be analogous to the mantling of the Earth over all the jewels within the Earth’s crust; whereas previously all facets of the Creator were consciously known. After the veiling, almost no facets of the Creator were known to the mind. Almost all was buried beneath the veil.

If one were to attempt to list those functions of mind most significant in that they might be of aid in polarization, one would need to begin with the faculty of visioning, envisioning, or far-seeing. Without the veil the mind was not caught in your illusory time. With the veil space/time is the only obvious possibility for experience.

Also upon the list of significant veiled functions of the mind would be that of dreaming. The so-called dreaming contains a great deal which, if made available to the conscious mind and used, shall aid it in polarization to a great extent.

The third function of the mind which is significant and which has been veiled is that of the knowing of the body. The knowledge of and control over the body, having been lost to a great extent in the veiling process, is thusly lost from the experience of the seeker. Its knowledge before the veiling is of small use. Its knowledge after the veiling, and in the face of what is now a dense illusion of separation of body complex from mind complex, is quite significant.

Perhaps the most important and significant function that occurred due to the veiling of the mind from itself is not in itself a function of mind but rather is a product of the potential created by this veiling. This is the faculty of will or pure desire.

We may ask for brief queries at this time. Although there is energy remaining for this working, we are reluctant to continue this contact, experiencing continual variations due to pain flares, as you call this distortion. Although we are unaware of any misgiven material we are aware that there have been several points during which our channel was less than optimal. This instrument is most faithful but we do not wish to misuse this instrument. Please query as you will." - Law of One 85.19

[Anders]

One example of the artificial results of the veil is the belief that taking risks is necessary in life. Except that those in power themselves have strategies for how to outsource the risk to the masses. It's almost cartoonish how hard and rigid control the power structures have, and the higher up in the power pyramid, the more control and elimination of risks.

My theory is that in reality there are zero risks. And that all of reality is always in perfect order. So if that's true then the apparent risks in life are an illusion. The same with things like accidents, randomness and natural disasters which are real phenomena in our experience yet at the most fundamental level even these are illusions of "shakiness" and uncertainty I predict.

[Anders]

Ironically, the veiled mind seeks certainty and at the same time it has bought the hoax idea of risks being necessary, hook, line and sinker. So the veiled mind is shooting itself in the foot all the time and tries to protect the foot at the same time. I got this idea when I heard certainty discussed from around 29 minutes into this video with nonduality teacher Paul Hedderman:

[Anders]

I found Paul Hedderman's video useful. One major result of the veil is confusion. That confusion is an illusion. That's my idea. And to test it one can simply observe the confusion in one's own mind. And as Paul said instead of relying on thinking to deal with the future to trust that the right thoughts will be there when they are needed.

Confusion leads to fear which leads to numbness which leads to anger and conflict. That whole chain of suffering is uprooted when the confusion dissolves.

[Anders]

The idea of impermanence in Buddism is wrong I think. The impermanence is just a result of the veil. But Buddhism has other amazing concepts such as dependent origination, the interconnectedness of all things, emptiness, and Indra's net (which is just a web of relations hence emptiness).

Instead reality is like Brahman in my view, eternal and changeless. And the appearance of change is because the manifestation of Indra's net is expanding all the time. So the past is permanent. Reality is permanent! That's something I'm contemplating at the moment as a way of seeing through the veil.

[Anders]

Another even more radical idea I have, which at first might appear boring, is that reality is changeless. Compare with a YouTube video. What is a YouTube video made of? The answer is that a YouTube video is a changeless string of information.

However, the Youtube video analogy is way too limited. Reality is not like a video being played. The information in reality is expanding all the time. A lot! And that produces evolution and reality moving into higher and higher densities. The motion is because the expanding "video" of reality manifests now yet has no end so the expansion and time are endless.

I have a sense that this view of a changeless yet in time improving reality brings tremendous inner peace. Reality is done already one might say. Reality is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning (of time) and the end (the present moment). And the end is endless.

"He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children." - Revelation 21:6-7

[Anders]

Another thing I find interesting, and almost funny is the continuation of the Bible quote in my previous post. It's about the second death. The first quote I see as being freed from the veil. And this second quote is about remaining trapped in the veil. The second death then means being trapped in the veil forever. Can't happen since the veil is a temporary cosmic trick for the purpose of growth and development.

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." - Revelation 21:8

And the "lake of burning sulfur" can be seen as the first stage in esoteric alchemy, the blackening stage where the veiled self is burnt to ashes.

[Ming the Merciful]

Another thing I find interesting, and almost funny is the continuation of the Bible quote in my previous post. It's about the second death. The first quote I see as being freed from the veil. And this second quote is about remaining trapped in the veil. The second death then means being trapped in the veil forever. Can't happen since the veil is a temporary cosmic trick for the purpose of growth and development.

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." - Revelation 21:8

And the "lake of burning sulfur" can be seen as the first stage in esoteric alchemy, the blackening stage where the veiled self is burnt to ashes.

Beware of Veils. They may become curtains, and then walls. It is time to remove the Veils, (of discontent). What if we approach this from another angle? They do not exist. Or, they do, only if we create them. As an advocate of Nonduality, (and everything is perfect and in its rightful place). The Veils, (of our own making), are nothing more than stumbling blocks and are there to deceive us. It is the natural, AS IT IS. For years I wondered about the subtitle of the ISKCON edition of the Bhagavad-Gita, (AS IT IS). It is indirectly relating to Nonduality, (not in so many words). So, how many words are there in AS IT IS? The natural order of everything. The problem with Philosophy, it is too Philosophical, (and that is the problem). Then this brings us back to Zen, (of which I am also an advocate). In Zen, the "Nothingness" is the "Everything", (and the "Absolute Neutral State"). Within the "Neutral State", Veils cannot exist. That place before even the Nothingness existed, before the "God(s)" spat out the Universe.

Beware of spitting God(s), worse than Cobras. You can read the mind of a Cobra, although you can never read the minds of the God(s).