Removing the veil of separation

[Anders]

Bruce Lipton said that some people drink poison in rituals without being affected by it because of their beliefs. It requires deep change of beliefs down into the subconscious, so it's more than just a change of an intellectual belief that's needed to do things like that.

Can we trust reports like that? Not 100% I think but it indicates that change of vibration changes what the human body is capable of. The placebo effect is real and it can produce quire remarkable results.

With our ordinary yellow-ray body we need to eat healthy food, physical exercise, hygiene, reduction of stress etc in order to stay healthy. However, with higher vibrations that's probably not necessary. Even the green-ray body I suspect is extremely advanced compared to the yellow-ray body.

[flofrog]

I must have been 12 or 13 when my mother explained to me the placebo effect. I remember being blown away, and thought this was magical then…. It was like you think of something and somehow the effect happens…

Then there was that funny thing with my dad. He was a rather sensitive kind of entity and had often gut/stomach issues which i thought, later, was probably due to situations he saw as deeply wrong, and on which he felt powerless.

So he had one doctor who would always prescribe for him a medicine to appease these gut issues, and my dad would bring the medicine at the family evening dinner, would read the little brochure and then would tuck the brochure inside the little package, and would say, I feel better already and then he would put away the medicine and never touch it again. We used to laugh at this, but much later, after he passed away, I thought, what about that little placebo/thinking effect… lol

[Anders]

According to Bruce Lipton many people get better on the way to the doctor. One guess I have is that it's because people have then outsourced the problem and the responsibility to the doctor/hospital. And that allows them to relax.

All is One. So we can as well outsource all responsibility to the future. And that's total relaxation! Well, in theory. I will experiment with that to see if there is some truth to it.

[Ming the Merciful]

The "Veil of Separation" only exists because we created it. What I am discovering, (and rediscovering), over recent months, and what I was taught from Zen. If we lose all the pretenses, facades and illusions and simply "Be". It is more than just existing in the "Now". It is something much deeper and beyond existing in the moment. It is an awareness in the Silence and a "Knowing", (that cannot be explained in words). Once we can learn to accept it, without the need to explain it, (because it cannot be explained), then the "Veil" dissolves into the Nothingness. Even the delusion of Enlightenment must be discarded, because that too is another barrier that is holding us back from the Truth of what lies, (supposedly), behind the Veil. When we are ready, Enlightenment will happen. We must allow everything happen in the natural order of things.

Simply Be.

[Patrick]

The "Veil of Separation" only exists because we created it...

There is no one else to do it.

...There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things....

[Ming the Merciful]

The "Veil of Separation" only exists because we created it...

There is no one else to do it.

...There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things....

Right on Patrick, (my friend). The quote is perfect. Although perfection itself is a part of the illusion. Simply, the unexplainable cannot be explained, (so why try). What I have said in the past, we must even drop all manifestations of Philosophy and Religion and dedication to any particular Treatise of Thought, because outside of our "Delusional Created Existence", a Philosophical concept is an "Alien Construct". I have also had a theory for a long time, that the various Teachers who have come and gone, and were right in their time, were only a "Spark" in a moment in time. Evolution moves on. Drop the Philosophy and become your own Teacher. You are your Greatest Advisor and Mentor.

[Patrick]

"manifestations of Philosophy" are there just for that purpose, to bring seekers to realize that these are illusion too.

[Anders]

@Ming the Merciful There can as I see it only be one creation, and we are it, so yes we and the veil are one. But I think creation in the sense of change is impossible. Because that would mean that reality would change. And something that changes turns from one state to another. The Creator is one so there can only be one state. That's why Brahman is changeless. Or as it says in the Bible:

"I the Lord do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." - Malachi 3:6

Reality is one Logos which is the Word [John 1] and a word doesn't change. And Christ is the Word made manifest. And Christ and the Father are one. This I see as nonduality.

As an analogy take a YouTube video as representing all of reality. The Father in this analogy represents the changeless string of digital information representing the video and Christ (the only begotten Son) represents the video being played. That's why Jesus said that by himself he does nothing and only does what the Father says. In the actual reality the "video" is a platonic form, it just timelessly is, and this is the one creation.

[Anders]

I now realized that the veil is the illusion! It is the path which is not. Christ is the way and the truth and the life. This can also be seen as Tao as the way. It says in the Tao Te Ching that the master does nothing yet leaves nothing undone.

The illusion is that the creation can be changed. The creation is changeless. Otherwise there is duality in the form of the Creator and the creation. The Creator and the creation are one. The Father is the Creator and creation is Christ.

"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently." - Romans 8:18-21

[Anders]

The Word as the one Logos for all of reality and the creation are one. But if the Word is timeless, then how does time come about? I think of it as the Word in its unmanifested form and in its manifested form. It's seemingly a duality, in reality the unmanifested and the manifested are one. That's the Father and Christ are one description I wrote about earlier. So the Word can be seen as a single coin with two sides, the unmanifested side and the manifested side.

In the Law of One they actually have the Bible opened to John 1 in a session! In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Nothing has been created except through the Word. And when the Word is manifested, time is produced. Ra says that creation started as one original thought:

"Ra: I am Ra. ... The Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator has only one important statement. That statement, my friends, as you know, is “All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.” ..." - Law of One 1.0

The Word can then be seen as what Ra calls the one original thought. And all of creation is a part of the original thought, Ra says. The veil is therefore also a part of the original thought. The veil is kind of like a cosmic trick for the purpose of growth and development of seemingly separate individuals and things.

[Anders]

Jnana yoga is the path of the intellect. In Law of One terms this can be boiled down to identifying oneself as the one original thought. And to me this means that what we call our personal thoughts are a part of the one original thought. Everything is!

The original thought is constructed as Intelligent Infinity if I have connected what Ra says correctly. Yoga means to unify. And the veil causes us to experience ourselves as separate from the original thought. Identifying oneself as the original thought heals the seeming separation.

[Anders]

The materialistic worldview is a result of the veil. So what's wrong with the materialistic belief system? Someone made an analogy of a kid watching a sunset and thinking that the sun is moving down behind the horizon. Meanwhile you are on the moon watching the earth. From your perspective it's obvious that the sun isn't moving down below the horizon.

Similarly, the materialistic view is that physical matter went from particles to molecules and then through evolution, life became more complex, from single-celled organisms to multicellular organisms leading up to humans with a brain which produces thoughts. From Ra's perspective all that is a result of the one original thought. And from that perspective, the belief that the brain produces thoughts is like the kid's belief that the sun is moving down below the horizon during the sunset.

[Anders]

How do we know that materialism is a false perspective? What if the idea of oneness and mind as reality is just a spiritual fantasy? Rupert Spira said that with the materialistic worldview we overlook consciousness and focus only on the material things. That's true, but what if consciousness is just an epiphenomenon produced by the brain?

I have started to get a sense that everything is interconnected and at the deepest level of reality there is no separate "stuff", it's all relations. But it's still mostly an intellectual idea for me. I will take a look at Leo Gura's video about how the brain is not a separate thing again to get a deeper sense of the consciousness perspective.

[Margan]

Anders you might be interested in watching this :



Swamiji talks about consciousness from a nondual advaita perspective but he also mentions current universitarian studies on the subject.
And in the second comment Glen has put the time stamps so that should make it easier to scroll to the themes that interest you

[Anders]

@Margan I have watched some of the Swami's videos (I always forget his name, haha). For example one interview with him and Rupert Spira. Really great! I will take a look at the video.

[Ming the Merciful]

@Ming the Merciful There can as I see it only be one creation, and we are it, so yes we and the veil are one. But I think creation in the sense of change is impossible. Because that would mean that reality would change. And something that changes turns from one state to another. The Creator is one so there can only be one state. That's why Brahman is changeless. Or as it says in the Bible:

"I the Lord do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." - Malachi 3:6

Reality is one Logos which is the Word [John 1] and a word doesn't change. And Christ is the Word made manifest. And Christ and the Father are one. This I see as nonduality.

As an analogy take a YouTube video as representing all of reality. The Father in this analogy represents the changeless string of digital information representing the video and Christ (the only begotten Son) represents the video being played. That's why Jesus said that by himself he does nothing and only does what the Father says. In the actual reality the "video" is a platonic form, it just timelessly is, and this is the one creation.

Anders I can easily accept your quote from the Bible. It correlates with quotes from the Bhagavad-Gita, where Krishna tells Arjuna that he is the "Creator and Destroyer of Worlds and is Eternal". As much as I accept the Bible, Koran, Bhagavad-Gita, Upanishads, Mahabharata and other Treatises of Wisdom. In the final result we must see them as only guidelines, (not Absolutes within themselves). The "Ultimate Knowledge", (hidden behind the Veil), is at a deepness and anything beyond our imagination and comprehension. By accepting the point, and crossing Realities the "Ultimate Wisdom" exists in the Nothingness. Once we discover the Nothingness, (without concept), then we are seeing and observing another level of Spiritual Awareness. When we accept that we cannot comprehend the Ultimate, and accept it AS IT IS. Then comes understanding without the need to understand. It is unimportant if we cannot comprehend on the Intellectual level because Spirituality is not Intellectual. As I have mentioned in other Threads. Until our observation is observed from Intuitive Knowledge, our understanding will always be limited.

[Anders]

@Ming the Merciful You bring up an important point about experiencing reality without concepts. Spiritual teacher Shunymurti has mentioned that there is a trans-conceptual state of awareness possible. I think in theory that's possible, even to the point of being able to perform practical tasks without thinking yet still being aware.

I have an idea of the Nothingness as meaning that reality is made of only relations. So there is no substance at the fundamental level of reality. I have a sense of being able to get a more direct and practical experience of it. It's still mostly only intellectual understanding I have. Concepts are like pointers that may or may not be true. Nonduality teacher Ramesh Balsekar said that everything he said, everything any teacher has said at anytime, everything in scriptures, are concepts.

I believe concepts can be useful as pointers, as a guiding tool towards actual realization of what the concepts point to. And it's also useful I think when or if a breaking through the veil happens, it allows a smoother adjustment to the new level of consciousness than without spiritual conceptual knowledge.

[Ming the Merciful]

@Ming the Merciful You bring up an important point about experiencing reality without concepts. Spiritual teacher Shunymurti has mentioned that there is a trans-conceptual state of awareness possible. I think in theory that's possible, even to the point of being able to perform practical tasks without thinking yet still being aware.

I have an idea of the Nothingness as meaning that reality is made of only relations. So there is no substance at the fundamental level of reality. I have a sense of being able to get a more direct and practical experience of it. It's still mostly only intellectual understanding I have. Concepts are like pointers that may or may not be true. Nonduality teacher Ramesh Balsekar said that everything he said, everything any teacher has said at anytime, everything in scriptures, are concepts.

I believe concepts can be useful as pointers, as a guiding tool towards actual realization of what the concepts point to. And it's also useful I think when or if a breaking through the veil happens, it allows a smoother adjustment to the new level of consciousness than without spiritual conceptual knowledge.

Nothingness is that, and nothing more. At some point we must decide whether we accept the teachings of others, or, the "Eternal Truth" that already lies within us. I am not condemning the Ancient Masters because they brought Wisdom and Knowledge and much can be learned from them. As the Buddha said, at one point we must find our own Path, or in other words learn the Eternal Knowledge from our own experience and Wisdom. No matter what Philosophy we follow, it is from another person. Their Enlightenment can never be our Enlightenment, because we did not have their experience. Learn from the Spiritual Masters from the past, but do not cling to them.

I will learn from any Enlightened Master and thank him for his teachings and Wisdom. If he is a true Spiritual Master he will not be offended when you decide he does not have the Ultimate Knowledge to offer you. That can only be found within yourself. As a former member of ISKCON I have discovered many Enlightened Masters in India, and I will do a search of Shunymurti later. I am curious? Although if he is a true Spiritual Master, then his Knowledge will be the same. UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE is UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE.

[Anders]

The materialistic worldview takes death for granted as a fact. I take death to be an illusion caused by the veil. And I think we need to start with dealing with the issue of death. Not "accepting" it or something horrible like that.

And by taking death as an illusion 99% of all spiritual teachings and teachers go out of the window. Not as charlatans, nor as being ignorant, but as veiled information, like telling kids that babies are delivered by a stork. Does Ra in the Law of One take physical death for granted? Maybe not! Just as I suspect that Law of Confusion means veiled language and that Ra means that there is actually no free will, so too may death of the physical body mean transformation of the yellow-ray body into a green-ray body.

"Questioner: Upon our physical death, as we call it, from this particular density and this particular incarnative experience, we lose this chemical body. Immediately after the loss of this chemical body do we maintain a different type of body? Is there still a mind/body/spirit complex at that point?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The mind/body/spirit complex is quite intact; the physical body complex you now associate with the term body being but manifestation of a more dense and intelligently informed and powerful body complex." - Law of One 30.3

But then what about all people who have died a physical death? My theory is that all the past is only in the now, and then nobody has ever died in some past separate from the now! It's a radical shift of perspective, not only compared to the materialistic worldview but also compared to basically all surface level spiritual and religious teachings.

[Anders]

Even more fundamental than the question about physical death is the nature of time. To believe that time started from no time billions of years ago as in the materialistic worldview or to believe that time stretches back an infinite number of years is illogical in my opinion.

The only logically valid view of time I have found is that time is only now, in the present moment. The past is real I think yet all the past is squeezed as timeless information into the present moment. Time has a beginning, but only as an information structure beginning now and expanding endlessly into the future.

[Anders]

Interestingly, Leo Gura has already mentioned that the past is a manifestation now, and only that. In a video he said: "You didn't click play on this video." Meaning, we have never actually done anything in the past. Then what about Leo Gura himself, did he make that video? No, the video appears instantly in the now.

It's the same with all of reality of course. The internet for example pops into existence instantly in the now. The same with our physical bodies. As Leo said, we were never born in the way we believe we were. All of us pop into existence instantly in the now.

[Anders]

Notice that Ra in the Law of One often points out our mistaken idea about time. I believe that's the core meaning of Ra saying that our world is an illusion. My guess is that space/time means our mistaken view about time and time/space means the correct understanding of time in Ra's terminology.

And also, the mistaken idea about time is the main trick caused by the veil. So to remove the veil is about recognizing that the past is only now, and that we have never done anything in the past, never even lived in a past outside the present moment.

[Anders]

One practice about time, probably very unpopular among most people since we usually think of the past as real and precious, is to start recognizing all the past as a motionless picture appearing now.

Then what if I'm wrong? What if there is a past outside the now? Well, in that case the practice is probably detrimental and a waste of time, pun intended. On the other hand, if our usual idea about time is wrong as Ra indicated, then the practice can be effective.

[Anders]

To be fair, many spiritual teachers, especially the nonduality teachers, have said that there is only the present moment. The reason for why I have overlooked their teachings in the "past" is because they still behave as they have lived in the past, so my mind has kept the identification with the past strong. And even that is just information appearing now!

And most people have an incredibly strong connection with their past, and we all basically identify ourselves immensely with the past. I came up with a new idea of time alchemy, to harvest the past. To keep the past and burn up or putrefy (as in the blackening stage in alchemy) the sticky personal connections and identifications with the past.

[Anders]

Excellent! Ra has this excellent explanation of there being only the present moment:

"Questioner: Can you give me some kind of history of your social memory complex and how you became aware of the Law of One?

Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light, or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb." - Law of One 16.21

The quote is excellent from my point of view since it makes the Law of One very consistent with my own view. A bit self-biased haha, but I see it as another dot connection making the whole picture I have put together stronger.

[Anders]

Even if I'm not sure yet I believe that Ra's view of the past and of our history is the same as mine. Which is that the past is real yet that all the past is only information in the present moment. I don't know what Ra meant by a circle. I see the alpha and the omega Ra mentioned as the beginning of time (alpha) up to the present moment (omega).

It's still possible to use the past as usual. If I say that I posted a comment on a YouTube video yesterday, then that statement is still true even with the past only existing now. Because all the past is real and has a timeline as usual and it's just that the past is only now and is not stretching back away from the now.

[Ming the Merciful]

Excellent! Ra has this excellent explanation of there being only the present moment:

"Questioner: Can you give me some kind of history of your social memory complex and how you became aware of the Law of One?

Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light, or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb." - Law of One 16.21

The quote is excellent from my point of view since it makes the Law of One very consistent with my own view. A bit self-biased haha, but I see it as another dot connection making the whole picture I have put together stronger.

Once we accept that everything is "One" and a single unified force, there is no need to observe it from an abstract Intellectual Mind. Everything that we believe is only a concept of Mind, and the Mind creating answers to something that is incomprehensible. When we accept that the incomprehensible cannot be understood, by not analyzing it, we are not ignoring it, (but embracing it). Or, we are acknowledging that "IT" already exists. The various questions, (above), are only your Intellectual Mind trying to discover answers, which will never be answered. Realistically, the "Nothingness" is even beyond the concepts of Intuitive Mind, because we cannot question the overall Whole, as it will always remain incomprehensible. In other words, we are already creating the "Veil" because we do not accept the barrier we have created.

When you stop looking for it, you will find it. Paraphrasing the Buddha and Jesus Christ, they both said the same thing. Once you stop looking for the Knowledge, the Knowledge suddenly appears. Not an Intellectual Knowledge, but an Intuitive Knowledge. Although when observing IT in Intuitive Mind there must be caution, because the IT is still elusive and disappears as we approach it. We must simply accept IT exists. It cannot be described Philosophy, and the moment you try, it will disappear. The "Veil" only disappears the moment that we accept there is no Veil, (which we already created). The snake eating its tail.

[Anders]

@Ming the Merciful We can use concepts I believe to transcend conceptual understanding, like Ramakrishna said to use a thorn to remove another thorn and then throwing them both away. Teachings like the Law of One are useful for expanding our sense of possibilities even if it's just conceptual understanding. Also, there is a risk of mistaking a partial awakening for a full awakening. As long as we are still in yellow-ray bodies I believe we still need conceptual knowledge as a tool for moving into a green-ray body. And the veil can be seen as that which blocks that transition.

[Anders]

In this new video Aaron Doughty says that the harvest in the Law of One in the form of a Great Awakening is happening now (started some year ago he said). I believe a global harvest will happen later although the coronavirus disaster is a huge global event, which may indicate the end of one stage of consciousness for humanity and the beginning of a higher state of consciousness collectively.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

In this new video Aaron Doughty says that the harvest in the Law of One in the form of a Great Awakening is happening now (started some year ago he said). I believe a global harvest will happen later although the coronavirus disaster is a huge global event, which may indicate the end of one stage of consciousness for humanity and the beginning of a higher state of consciousness collectively.

We are nearing "or IN" the era of the 5th spiritual stage of development of humanity. It is hard to say of we are there or not but perhaps very, very close.