Consciousness

[Bosphorus1982]

Consciousness is Everything and Everybody. It's another name for All That Is/One/God. However, i have difficulties relating it to matter and energy and spirit. I believe phenomena like Spirit and Energy, are all derivations of Consciousness. Am i true?

[flofrog]

Interesting question Bosphorus... Perhaps the difficulties arise from precise definition as to each word , right ?

In a way you could say that Spirit/Energy are also what existed in the conflagration of creation... So is Consciousness what precedes it all ?

[Anders]

Ra said "All of the infinite Logoi are one in the consciousness of love." (81.23) Regarding spirit I found this curious explanation: "The infinity of the spirit is an even greater realization than the infinity of consciousness, for consciousness which has been disciplined by will and faith is that consciousness which may contact intelligent infinity directly." (80.20)

So spirit, in Law of One terminology, then must be larger than consciousness. Tricky. I think it can be explained Like how Nassim Haramein describes consciousness as a feedback of information. And our manifested reality (including energy and matter) is a result of the infinite Logos.



My interpretation is that consciousness is the infinite Logos being aware of the finite manifestation of itself. And spirit contains the infinite Logos so it's therefore larger.

[Sacred Fool]

 
I think Ra's statement is clearer when viewed in context.

80.20 Questioner: Sorry about that. Can you tell me what the twentieth archetype would be?

Ra: I am Ra. That which you call the Sarcophagus in your system may be seen to be the material world, if you will. This material world is transformed by the spirit into that which is infinite and eternal. The infinity of the spirit is an even greater realization than the infinity of consciousness, for consciousness which has been disciplined by will and faith is that consciousness which may contact intelligent infinity directly. There are many things which fall away in the many, many steps of adepthood. We, of Ra, still walk these steps and praise the One Infinite Creator at each transformation.

 
The emboldened line might be an answer to the OP.  That is, the relationship of matter, energy and spirit to consciousness becomes more apparent as one becomes more intimate with spirit.

I read the above passage to say that personal realization of spirit is greater than the personal realization of consciousness (i.e., mind, body, chakras, energy bodies, etc.), not that spirit is greater than consciousness.  In other words, to encompass spirit is to no longer need it as a shuttle to contact Intelligent Infinity, as it can then be contacted directly.

By the way, this could be regarded as stupendously advanced work, not something ordinary nor casual.

  

[Anders]

Yes, on a second thought there is only one infinity as Ra explained. So ultimately the infinity of the spirit is the same as the infinity of consciousness. Actually even Georg Cantor only had one what he called actual infinity (also translated as absolute infinity) in contrast to the transfinite numbers.

And then my interpretation becomes: Consciousness is the infinite being aware of the finite manifestation of itself.

[Anders]

Regarding energy and matter that's thought according to Ra:

"The Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator has only one important statement. That statement, my friends, as you know, is “All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.”" - Law of One 1.0

Another word I use is information. Reality is information observed by consciousness. So energy and matter are "made" of information.

[Dtris]

There is a great book called The Physics of Consciousness. What is often overlooked is that in quantum physics the observer is literally the cause of the state vector collapse. Or in other words, matter only exists in a definite state when there is a conscious observer. When this is combined with Einstein's E=MC^2 we can say that all matter and energy only exists in a definite state when there is a conscious observer.

In more simple terms, physical reality is dependent on conscious observation to exist, and the only way that can be true is if consciousness exists outside of physical reality.

Whether matter and energy are derivation of consciousness is unknown. Consciousness could be creating matter and energy, or it could simply be arranging something that is already there. There are other possibilities as well. Frankly we aren't in a position to ever have true knowledge of this as near as I can tell. Not in 3rd density anyways. I think this is more the work of 5th density.

[tadeus]

Consciousness is Everything and Everybody. It's another name for All That Is/One/God. However, i have difficulties relating it to matter and energy and spirit. I believe phenomena like Spirit and Energy, are all derivations of Consciousness. Am i true?

That's the reason why i favour the Hermetic Principles - in this case the first principle:

The principle of mentalism
All is Mind; the Universe is Mental.

Mind is much more comprehensive then Consciousness.

[Signifyz]

There is a great book called The Physics of Consciousness. What is often overlooked is that in quantum physics the observer is literally the cause of the state vector collapse. Or in other words, matter only exists in a definite state when there is a conscious observer. When this is combined with Einstein's E=MC^2 we can say that all matter and energy only exists in a definite state when there is a conscious observer.

In more simple terms, physical reality is dependent on conscious observation to exist, and the only way that can be true is if consciousness exists outside of physical reality.

Whether matter and energy are derivation of consciousness is unknown. Consciousness could be creating matter and energy, or it could simply be arranging something that is already there. There are other possibilities as well. Frankly we aren't in a position to ever have true knowledge of this as near as I can tell. Not in 3rd density anyways. I think this is more the work of 5th density.

To add to your post I must say that QM nowhere directly suggests that it is conscious obeserver that collapses wavefunction since you can't derive such statement only from bottom-up (inductive) theory which QM is. Although I agree with you on this point, the top-bottom (deductive) thinking is required to arrive to it. We can view state collapse as a function of horizontal particle interaction where even from the viewpoint of single fundamental particle the moment of interaction with another particle will create a brief moment of near-definitive information about it. Now we can ask ourself what we are, and if we define ourself as a nervous signal (which is good but less than accurate contemplative position), we must already admit that we are agglomerate of elementary particles and interactions between them. So at this point we can factor our conscious aspect and infer that if the cluster of building blocks has such aspect, then it must be something innate to every smallest part of it. Thus, everything is consciousness.

[jafar]

Consciousness is Everything and Everybody. It's another name for All That Is/One/God. However, i have difficulties relating it to matter and energy and spirit. I believe phenomena like Spirit and Energy, are all derivations of Consciousness. Am i true?

Consciousness is the one who is experiencing while the matter, energy, spirit are virtual construct created with the objective of experiencing.

Consciousness is the gamer while the matter, energy is the element that one interact inside the game, and the spirit is the avatar inside the game.

[Margan]

Isn't it that consciousness is all there is, like was already mentioned?
So no matter what, animals, stones, plants, all are made of consciousness. And are consciousness.
The difference as I see is in the vibrational level. The slower (lower?) the vibration, the more inert and less conscious the object seems (like stones or rock for example)
Is there a direct link between consciousness and vibrational level? the higher vibrating, the more consciousness one imbues? (and if ones equals consciousness with god, or the source, then the more "godlike" the higher vibrating being would become....)
We all heard the stories about Eastern masters, who raised their vibrations to infinitesimal levels and "traveled on the wind", worked miracles and were in two places at one, to name but a few things.
That to my unscientific mind is vibrating almost at the speed of light.
Hard to explain what I mean here, I hope you get the gist of it

[Dtris]

There is a great book called The Physics of Consciousness. What is often overlooked is that in quantum physics the observer is literally the cause of the state vector collapse. Or in other words, matter only exists in a definite state when there is a conscious observer. When this is combined with Einstein's E=MC^2 we can say that all matter and energy only exists in a definite state when there is a conscious observer.

In more simple terms, physical reality is dependent on conscious observation to exist, and the only way that can be true is if consciousness exists outside of physical reality.

Whether matter and energy are derivation of consciousness is unknown. Consciousness could be creating matter and energy, or it could simply be arranging something that is already there. There are other possibilities as well. Frankly we aren't in a position to ever have true knowledge of this as near as I can tell. Not in 3rd density anyways. I think this is more the work of 5th density.

To add to your post I must say that QM nowhere directly suggests that it is conscious obeserver that collapses wavefunction since you can't derive such statement only from bottom-up (inductive) theory which QM is. Although I agree with you on this point, the top-bottom (deductive) thinking is required to arrive to it. We can view state collapse as a function of horizontal particle interaction where even from the viewpoint of single fundamental particle the moment of interaction with another particle will create a brief moment of near-definitive information about it. Now we can ask ourself what we are, and if we define ourself as a nervous signal (which is good but less than accurate contemplative position), we must already admit that we are agglomerate of elementary particles and interactions between them. So at this point we can factor our conscious aspect and infer that if the cluster of building blocks has such aspect, then it must be something innate to every smallest part of it. Thus, everything is consciousness.

If I am following your logic correctly, everything is consciousness does not logically follow from your statements. Since consciousness is necessary to cause the state vector collapse, and as you say that this something which causes the collapse is innate to even the smallest part of it, we cannot infer that all IS consciousness, only that all things may exhibit consciousness or have consciousness/be conscious.

Physics and philosophy are in the ironic position of consciousness being necessary for existence, yet unable to define consciousness adequately.

Isn't it that consciousness is all there is, like was already mentioned?
So no matter what, animals, stones, plants, all are made of consciousness. And are consciousness.
The difference as I see is in the vibrational level. The slower (lower?) the vibration, the more inert and less conscious the object seems (like stones or rock for example)
Is there a direct link between consciousness and vibrational level? the higher vibrating, the more consciousness one imbues? (and if ones equals consciousness with god, or the source, then the more "godlike" the higher vibrating being would become....)
We all heard the stories about Eastern masters, who raised their vibrations to infinitesimal levels and "traveled on the wind", worked miracles and were in two places at one, to name but a few things.
That to my unscientific mind is vibrating almost at the speed of light.
Hard to explain what I mean here, I hope you get the gist of it

Consciousness may be all that their is, but we cannot logically or in any other way prove that. It is also not necessarily a conclusion that can be drawn from esotericism either. My instinct is actually that consciousness is not all that their is. However that is also not in any way able to be proven.

As near as I can tell, at best we can say we don't know. What you actually believe is up to you, and I am not sure it makes a difference much either way in the long run for where we are at.

[Infinite]

Based on the LOO, it seems to me that energy is the work produced by free will touching the potential of this cosmic consciousness. Matter is a result of the intelligent infinity imprinting this energy upon a distortion that Ra called Light.

Your second assumption seems true to me, as everything is derived from intelligent infinity.

[Anders]

Something that nonduality teachers need to defend is when they say that consciousness is everything then how come we are unaware in deep dreamless sleep? My proposal is that reality is the difference between everything and nothing. And consciousness is that difference being aware of the infinite expansion of itself. So there can be awareness of something and there can also be awareness of nothing like in deep dreamless sleep and in anesthesia during for example surgery.

[tadeus]

January 17, 1974, Thursday Meditation

The mind of man is not created so that it is isolated. It is created to be in contact with all consciousness at all times. It is possible through understanding, which is not intellectual in form, to realize the single truth that allows man of Earth to remove this limitation or separation from the infinite mind.

February 11, 1974, Monday Meditation

However, it is quite possible to insulate one’s consciousness from these infringements of thought and realize the truth of one’s origin. The one known to you as Jesus was able to do this. Do not believe that this man was unique in his ability. He was demonstrating to you that this was possible. He was demonstrating that each of the Father’s children could do the same thing that He did. It is only necessary that you meditate to realize this, and then it is only necessary that you demonstrate your knowledge of it through your thoughts and your actions.

February 18, 1974, Monday Meditation, First Meeting

There are people in this universe. They are infinite. They do many things. They speak to you. You listen. They come to you. Into your consciousness come thoughts. What comes into your consciousness is what you desire. You are limited because of your desire to be limited. Everything that you think is possible, if you desire it. Many things have occurred.

[jafar]

we cannot infer that all IS consciousness, only that all things may exhibit consciousness or have consciousness/be conscious.

Tend to agree that not all is consciousness, but consciousness is in all.
Using the metaphor of a game, the game will not exist without the gamer and the programmer.
The game and every things / events happening inside it, is a projection / product of the programmer and the gamer.

[Ming the Merciful]

Consciousness is Everything and Everybody. It's another name for All That Is/One/God. However, i have difficulties relating it to matter and energy and spirit. I believe phenomena like Spirit and Energy, are all derivations of Consciousness. Am i true?

Consciousness is the all-encompassing, all-pervasive state of the "I AM" within the Universe. Although we, (as individuals), only reflect a minuscule facet of the Overall-Whole, and therefore, there are limitations, (and limits), between what is known, (and unknown). The theories state, that in our individual Universal-Consciousness, we are the ONE, (and the same). I am myself, (I AM the I AM). The question is, what is the boundary between the two aspects? Intellectual Mind is the reflection of the Gross Physical State, while Intuitive Mind is the reflection the Spiritual Universal State. The Greater Consciousness. The answer is, we are both. Depending on where we are grounded in the moment. We intellectualize on the Physical Level, (yet), we can also communicate with the Higher Source on the Intuitive Level within the State of Inner Stillness. Meanwhile, in either State, our cognition, (and Consciousness), is both simultaneously.

[flofrog]

Ming, I think key is as you say,

depending where we are grounded in the moment.

but the possibility of being in that state of combining both is there so cool even if brief at first…

[Ming the Merciful]

Ming, I think key is as you say,

depending where we are grounded in the moment.

but the possibility of being in that state of combining both is there so cool even if brief at first…

Basically, it is gaining the skills on how to do it. Living, (and being aware), of both States. I mentioned in another Thread, that if we can encompass the "Art of Being", (or), living in the moment, although remaining detached from the meditative state. Not that I am denying meditation, (per se), and it should be used as a separate tool. Simple awareness of the "Now", and a reflection of the Universal Consciousness. There is detachment on the Gross Physical Level, (and yet we remain in it), and a part of the Universal State. The "I am" as the individual, and the "I AM" of the Universal State are the same thing, it is only how it is perceived in the moment. The more we become detached from our "Self" and physical possessions, the closer we become to the Universal Consciousness.

[flofrog]

Ming, I so agree. I wonder if it is not because of having my life mostly done, it’s much easier to stay in the moment. When you are young it’s more if a challenge not to project in mind the future while. Living in the present. with its ongoing expectations
Maia is much more of a temptress,

[Dtris]

Something that nonduality teachers need to defend is when they say that consciousness is everything then how come we are unaware in deep dreamless sleep? My proposal is that reality is the difference between everything and nothing. And consciousness is that difference being aware of the infinite expansion of itself. So there can be awareness of something and there can also be awareness of nothing like in deep dreamless sleep and in anesthesia during for example surgery.

I don't know if you have ever been put under anesthesia, but it is qualitatively not the same as deep dreamless sleep. When you get put under there is not awareness of nothing, there is no awareness. I have my speculation on what is going on in these cases but it is just that.

[Ming the Merciful]

Ming, I so agree. I wonder if it is not because of having my life mostly done, it’s much easier to stay in the moment. When you are young it’s more if a challenge  not to project in mind the future while. Living in the present. with its ongoing expectations
Maia is much more of a temptress,

The advantage I had over most people. I was already studying Zen Buddhism, and after my mother died. I was denied possession of the house, (it was left to other people). Meaning, I had to leave the house after the funeral, (and the aforementioned trip to Europe, (and Liberation)). I had nothing, (literally), and so I could concentrate on my "Self-Realization". Not that I considered myself as "Materialistic", because part of my training in Zen was non-attachment, and that came easy. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. During my time in Europe, Realization came naturally. The "Concepts" change. If you have no attachments at the beginning, that changes everything. I considered the European trip as a "Walkabout". When I returned from Europe and started living in an apartment, I felt like a "Caged Animal". Not so much because I was living inside, (our of the cold), but the freedom of "Spiritual Liberation". Although now, I live a "Minimalist Lifestyle" and only buy what I need, (not what I want).

Mother Maya, is an untamed temptress that needs to be trained. She can be tamed, although it takes time and patience.

I decide my fate, (thank you). Not Mother Temptress.

[tadeus]

Hihi - what a fascinating contradictory discussion.

So here one additional opinion of Rudolf Steiner:

Consciousness (lat. conscientia, συναίσθησις, synaisthesis, "co-perception" and φρόνησις skrt. चित् Chit) is based, according to Rudolf Steiner, "not on the fact that a being shows a certain counter-effect to an effect, but that the being experiences something in its inner being which is added to the mere counter-effect as a new thing." (Lit.:GA 13, p. 59f) According to the anthroposophical view, consciousness unfolds and develops in a sequence of seven stages of consciousness, of which our present earthly waking consciousness represents the fourth and middle stage. If consciousness sinks below the level of dream consciousness, one commonly speaks of a state of unconsciousness. Nevertheless, dull degrees of consciousness are still present.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Brandon Gwinn]

I do think that everything is consciousness. I believe consciousness is the ground of all being which enables all being and is all being. In trying to explain the basics of confederation philosophy to others I often use the word consciousness instead of love because love is such an overused, limited and variously interpreted word in our society and world.

[Ming the Merciful]

I do think that everything  is consciousness. I believe consciousness is the ground of all being which enables all being and is all being. In trying to explain the basics of confederation philosophy to others I often use the word consciousness instead of love because love is such an overused, limited and variously interpreted word in our society and world.

The more I am understanding the new consensus that is evolving. I also have an interest in Shinto, and the basic concept is, "Everything" that is a lifeform is "Consciousness". At one time I even believed that inanimate objects such as rock had some form of self-awareness, although I now question that theory. There are those who are now saying, that an operating system, such as a solar system could have a form of consciousness, (not to be confused as a single rock or mountain). The entity of consciousness incorporating the solar system as a whole. Then we take it to the next stage of the galaxy, and then the universe. I watched a video on YouTube last night that speculated that fact. I believe a tree has some form of self-awareness, (although not as we know it). We only have self-awareness from the five senses. A tree does not have senses, (as we know it), although they could in other forms. You will have no argument from me. I am, (therefore I AM).

[Dtris]

I do think that everything  is consciousness. I believe consciousness is the ground of all being which enables all being and is all being. In trying to explain the basics of confederation philosophy to others I often use the word consciousness instead of love because love is such an overused, limited and variously interpreted word in our society and world.

The more I am understanding the new consensus that is evolving. I also have an interest in Shinto, and the basic concept is, "Everything" that is a lifeform is "Consciousness". At one time I even believed that inanimate objects such as rock had some form of self-awareness, although I now question that theory. There are those who are now saying, that an operating system, such as a solar system could have a form of consciousness, (not to be confused as a single rock or mountain). The entity of consciousness incorporating the solar system as a whole. Then we take it to the next stage of the galaxy, and then the universe. I watched a video on YouTube last night that speculated that fact. I believe a tree has some form of self-awareness, (although not as we know it). We only have self-awareness from the five senses. A tree does not have senses, (as we know it), although they could in other forms. You will have no argument from me. I am, (therefore I AM).

Each of the seven densities represents a step in evolution and has an overarching theme or set of lessons to be learned.

Elemental matter being 1st density is learning the lessons of red ray, which is the development of awareness and life.

Second Density is the lesson of orange ray which is learning to become self aware as an individual part of the creator.

Third density is the yellow ray refinement of self awareness and the making of the choice, embroiled in interactions with other selves.

Technically to have self awareness and be of the nature of evolving thru the densities requires third density at a minimum, or able to graduate from second. This does not mean that inanimate objects like rocks and air do not have some type of consciousness, just one which we have trouble understanding because it would be a rudimentary form of awareness.

Similarly there is no reason that planets cannot have their own consciousness and even solar systems and galaxies. These are the Sub Logos of creation and exist in all densities and decide the parameters of the creation within their bounds.

[tadeus]

Each of the seven densities represents a step in evolution and has an overarching theme or set of lessons to be learned.

Elemental matter being 1st density is learning the lessons of red ray, which is the development of awareness and life.

Second Density is the lesson of orange ray which is learning to become self aware as an individual part of the creator.

Third density is the yellow ray refinement of self awareness and the making of the choice, embroiled in interactions with other selves.

Technically to have self awareness and be of the nature of evolving thru the densities requires third density at a minimum, or able to graduate from second. This does not mean that inanimate objects like rocks and air do not have some type of consciousness, just one which we have trouble understanding because it would be a rudimentary form of awareness.

Similarly there is no reason that planets cannot have their own consciousness and even solar systems and galaxies. These are the Sub Logos of creation and exist in all densities and decide the parameters of the creation within their bounds.

That's a good summary.

The reason why i always bring Rudolf Steiner into the game here is, that he is explaining the same in another way and more detailed.
Specially the evolution of our beings and our mind. He defined this evolution steps as planets.
There is a description of him, how to explore this tings for yourself, but this is really for an enthusiastic adept.

[flofrog]

I agree tadeus, about the very good summary,

And in fact I liked a lot, as a different perspective your quote :

Consciousness (lat. conscientia, συναίσθησις, synaisthesis, "co-perception" and φρόνησις skrt. चित् Chit) is based, according to Rudolf Steiner, "not on the fact that a being shows a certain counter-effect to an effect, but that the being experiences something in its inner being which is added to the mere counter-effect as a new thing." (Lit.:GA 13, p. 59f)

@ Dtris, your quote

Physics and philosophy are in the ironic position of consciousness being necessary for existence, yet unable to define consciousness adequately.

made me smile, because in a way the discovery of the 'observer of the particle' changing the particle shows somehow that consciousness is shared, lol

[Brandon Gwinn]

What  about the Backster Effect where when a plant's leaf was hooked up to a polygraph and Backster had the thought to burn it, the leaf's electrical activity went off the charts. The same thing happened when a person who mowed lawns for a living came into the room. Effects like this appear to be common to all types of life, showing that the energy of our thoughts affect the life around us within one unified field of consciousness. And what about the Global Consciousness Project's work where moments that significantly affect humanity such as 9/11 or the following worldwide prayer for peace on Sept. 14 actually caused random number generators placed around the world to show statistical anomalies in different proportions related to how close they were to the tragedy, and the earth's geomagnetic field was also significantly affected as well. This shows that all life and even the components of technology and the physical earth are all tied to consciousness and are affected by our thoughts, emotions, and intentions- probably because everything is consciousness. This is real science that could change the world if widely known, causing all of us to mind our thoughts and intentions and remain positive in order to affect positive change, but sadly like many other things of this revolutionary nature, vested  interests  keep it from receiving the publicity it deserves.

[Ming the Merciful]

What  about the Backster Effect where when a plant's leaf was hooked up to a polygraph and Backster had the thought to burn it, the leaf's electrical activity went off the charts. The same thing happened when a person who mowed lawns for a living came into the room. Effects like this appear to be common to all types of life, showing that the energy of our thoughts affect the life around us within one unified field of consciousness. And what about the Global Consciousness Project's work where moments that significantly affect humanity such as 9/11 or the following worldwide prayer for peace on Sept. 14 actually caused random number generators placed around the world to show statistical anomalies in different proportions related to how close they were to the tragedy, and the earth's geomagnetic field was also significantly affected as well. This shows that all life and even the components of technology and the physical earth are all tied to consciousness and are affected by our thoughts, emotions, and intentions- probably because everything is consciousness. This is real science that could change the world if widely known, causing all of us to mind our thoughts and intentions and remain positive in order to affect positive change, but sadly like many other things of this revolutionary nature, vested  interests  keep it from receiving the publicity it deserves.

I totally agree with you Brandon. I am moving closer to the theory that the Earth is a living entity. In effect, the rock is like the bone structure, water is the blood and the air is the breath. Fire. is the outbreath. Which then encompasses the four elements of the "Primordial Magic", (wrong description). Earth, Air, Fire and Water. Does the Earth have a Conscious State? If the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle are fitting into place, then that is only logical. Perhaps our own Consciousness comes from the Earth, and not from the Universe directly. We are not ready to be grounded in the Universal Consciousness. It remains in the future Evolution.