Relationship Advice Regarding Love/Wisdom STS/STO

[Inkshards]

I'm stuck between balancing love/wisdom regarding my mother's behavior and if you all feel drawn to help with input that would be great!

My mother has a lot of past trauma that has caused her to distort towards a personality disorder of narcissism.  It has become much worse over the years to the point of unprovoked physical assault and destruction of property that she justifies in her own view as being necessary.  She also greatly uses emotional manipulation in the form of guilt, self pity and victim mentality to emotionally get us to bend to her will.

Everything has gotten to a head in which, in a family group text, my brother did not respond right away (due to being at a hospice to be with his friend who's father was there and he explained why he couldn't text back for 20min). This triggered her to go into a panic attack (due to her past trauma and anxiety). My brother explained why he couldn't be on the phone and recommended we do family therapy and I fully agreed since this was something we have been wanting to do for awhile.  She saw this as an attack and started to verbally attack everyone and then she decided to walk out on the family. Doing what she claimed her mom had done to her but according to my brother it was her who walked out on them and she's been saying the opposite.

So it has now been a month of no contacts even during our brother and I's birthdays.

We know that she is doing this so that we would go "no please don't leave, we love you!" so as to prove to her that we love her even though we do!!

My father and brother are not going to contact her and they recommend I don't.  My brother and I feel a bit guilty because we actually feel 'free' in a sense because we are no longer being emotionally pulled on and have fear used to control our actions and decisions in our own lives from her and we are actually emotionally more stable and are growing.

I guess the main concern I have is the polarity issue in that I feel guilty for enjoying this emotional relief and freedom from her. I worry that if I contact her, nothing will change and I'll be pulled back into her behavior but I also don't want to lose a parent and I see that her behavior stems from deep pain and trauma and I honestly don't know if she is fully aware of what she is doing to herself and those around her.

I know the wise thing to do is to not contact her since it is her own freewill to walk out and she created the world she lives in even though it's an extremely distorted view of reality. I think it's mostly guilt that I feel because It seems like I didn't do enough and it feels like I'm abandoning her (something that she has instilled in us by saying to never be like her family) even though she abandoned us.

I don't know...
What do you all think?

[tadeus]

the point of unprovoked physical assault and destruction of property that she justifies in her own view as being necessary.  She also greatly uses emotional manipulation in the form of guilt, self pity and victim mentality to emotionally get us to bend to her will.

That sounds like an unconscious inner struggle with materialism.
But i think this is only a symptom of an other deeper problem.

I guess the main concern I have is the polarity issue in that I feel guilty for enjoying this emotional relief and freedom from her.  I worry that if I contact her, nothing will change and I'll be pulled back into her behavior but I also don't want to lose a parent and I see that her behavior stems from deep pain and trauma and I honestly don't know if she is fully aware of what she is doing to herself and those around her.

It seems that you have only the choice to fulfill her control or keep your freedom.
So your last conclusion is correct and you must decide how to handle this catalyst.

From my experience there is no really decision possible, because you have to decide between the feelings to your mother and fulfilling the will of someone else (STS).
The logic choice for a being in STO is to accept that you can't be in STO by fulfilling STS.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

the point of unprovoked physical assault and destruction of property that she justifies in her own view as being necessary.  She also greatly uses emotional manipulation in the form of guilt, self pity and victim mentality to emotionally get us to bend to her will.

That sounds like an unconscious inner struggle with materialism.
But i think this is only a symptom of an other deeper problem.

I guess the main concern I have is the polarity issue in that I feel guilty for enjoying this emotional relief and freedom from her.  I worry that if I contact her, nothing will change and I'll be pulled back into her behavior but I also don't want to lose a parent and I see that her behavior stems from deep pain and trauma and I honestly don't know if she is fully aware of what she is doing to herself and those around her.

It seems that you have only the choice to fulfill her control or keep your freedom.
So your last conclusion is correct and you must decide how to handle this catalyst.

From my experience there is no really decision possible, because you have to decide between the feelings to your mother and fulfilling the will of someone else (STS).
The logic choice for a being in STO is to accept that you can't be in STO by fulfilling STS.

I do not think it is fair to bring STS and STO into a discussion which clearly is surrounded by confusion, mental confusion which is due to trauma.

This is a very difficult subject because this is a trauma that is being replicated and being passed from mother to child. Living with a narcissist can literally be a living hell and will likely injure the entire family. Generally speaking, it is a generational mental/emotional disorder. The narcissist gets worse over time as the narcissist sees that the children are growing up and getting ready to leave the home or have left the home and so they need to maintain a strong level of control at a distance. The healing involved for the children can take literal years of work while they uncover one trauma at a time. So, with that being said...perhaps you are to consider yourself and your personal mental health. Having her gone for a moment has given you all a much needed break. The stress the entire family has been under due to her illness has been no doubt great. Perhaps you could take this much needed time and do some self discovery? Ask yourself, why not have a small break? It does not mean you do not love her and worry for her. She is an adult and trust me, she is fine. They have no intention of self harm if she is a true narcissist. She will be back in one form or another. Please consider your guilt for wanting this time of rest and quiet.
Living with someone like this distorts our thinking and clouds our judgement. Our thoughts will be forever turned toward what the narcissist wants and needs and we will continually forget about our own needs. This leads to us feeling very unworthy of anything that would considered to be "deserving" like love, care, rest and even something simple like eating. This is time that your family has been gifted to you. Hopefully you can see it this way.
-much love

[tadeus]

I do not think it is fair to bring STS and STO into a discussion which clearly is surrounded by confusion, mental confusion which is due to trauma.

The question was formulated in context to the STS/STO.

Maybe Inkshards will make further comments on this thread, because he has to decide which answers are helpful for him?

[Inkshards]

the point of unprovoked physical assault and destruction of property that she justifies in her own view as being necessary.  She also greatly uses emotional manipulation in the form of guilt, self pity and victim mentality to emotionally get us to bend to her will.

That sounds like an unconscious inner struggle with materialism.
But i think this is only a symptom of an other deeper problem.

I guess the main concern I have is the polarity issue in that I feel guilty for enjoying this emotional relief and freedom from her.  I worry that if I contact her, nothing will change and I'll be pulled back into her behavior but I also don't want to lose a parent and I see that her behavior stems from deep pain and trauma and I honestly don't know if she is fully aware of what she is doing to herself and those around her.

It seems that you have only the choice to fulfill her control or keep your freedom.
So your last conclusion is correct and you must decide how to handle this catalyst.

From my experience there is no really decision possible, because you have to decide between the feelings to your mother and fulfilling the will of someone else (STS).
The logic choice for a being in STO is to accept that you can't be in STO by fulfilling STS.

I do not think it is fair to bring STS and STO into a discussion which clearly is surrounded by confusion, mental confusion which is due to trauma.

This is a very difficult subject because this is a trauma that is being replicated and being passed from mother to child. Living with a narcissist can literally be a living hell and will likely injure the entire family. Generally speaking, it is a generational mental/emotional disorder. The narcissist gets worse over time as the narcissist sees that the children are growing up and getting ready to leave the home or have left the home and so they need to maintain a strong level of control at a distance. The healing involved for the children can take literal years of work while they uncover one trauma at a time. So, with that being said...perhaps you are to consider yourself and your personal mental health. Having her gone for a moment has given you all a much needed break. The stress the entire family has been under due to her illness has been no doubt great. Perhaps you could take this much needed time and do some self discovery? Ask yourself, why not have a small break? It does not mean you do not love her and worry for her. She is an adult and trust me, she is fine. They have no intention of self harm if she is a true narcissist. She will be back in one form or another. Please consider your guilt for wanting this time of rest and quiet.
Living with someone like this distorts our thinking and clouds our judgement. Our thoughts will be forever turned toward what the narcissist wants and needs and we will continually forget about our own needs. This leads to us feeling very unworthy of anything that would considered to be "deserving" like love, care, rest and even something simple like eating. This is time that your family has been gifted to you. Hopefully you can see it this way.
-much love

Thanks for the clarification! I struggle with the guilt that she has instilled in us the most and that's what was causing me pain. She isn't bad or a monster. it's just her disorder that makes it hard. I think what is truly at the root of my pain is that I want an emotionally functional family who is there for their children. Seeing her break away is just more of a sign of the unit falling away even more so then it already was. And I know that my desire for functional parents has made me gravitate to relationships that mimic the behavior of one of my parents and/or as a surrogate parent to the detriment of myself.

[Inkshards]

I do not think it is fair to bring STS and STO into a discussion which clearly is surrounded by confusion, mental confusion which is due to trauma.

The question was formulated in context to the STS/STO.

Maybe Inkshards will make further comments on this thread, because he has to decide which answers are helpful for him?

The question would have been if my choice to not chase after my mom after she officially walked out of the family was a STS move because I would be free of her emotional manipulation and pull.

If I chose to chase her down, most likely nothing would change and I would just be putting myself in the martyr position to please her and show her that I love her which would be a binding of myself.

I know taking care of the self is STO and STS is control, manipulation and placing your will above another. And there is concurrency with Love/STO and wisdome/STS.

It's just a painful situation due to it being a parent who you love who is choosing to leave the family after you have tried your best to bring, heal and build some semblance of a loving and functional family. It's more so a war between my love and desire for a family that never was and the truth of the reality.

[tadeus]

So I don't think i have misunderstood your question.

The question would have been if my choice to not chase after my mom after she officially walked out of the family was a STS move because I would be free of her emotional manipulation and pull.

When you want to have a simple and clear answer from my side then: Yes.
(I know this sounds heartless.)

But the painful situation will remain, because the contradiction cannot be solved.
We can only ask why we are getting such catalyst.

[flofrog]

Inkshards, I find your posts showing incredible courage, wisdom and kindness. Really kudos to you.

As an STO continuing your work, I would really, in your shoes, honor myself first, if I were you.

Keeping to yourself is the right attitude, in a way your mother has called this catalyst on herself and has to go through it. Perhaps solitude will help her see clearly faster. Somehow, we all know, internally what we are doing.

Hypothetically, if she has chosen in awareness an STS path then solitude is part of it, if she is unsure, then again solitude would create space for her to see things differently. I had someone close, who exhibited narcissistic traits, due also to trauma, and only lots of love and some firm standing against it managed to create some changes. It is such a difficult thing to improve.

Best wishes. Again you show so much wisdom and so much kindness, I hope you honor yourself

[Ohr Ein Sof]

the point of unprovoked physical assault and destruction of property that she justifies in her own view as being necessary.  She also greatly uses emotional manipulation in the form of guilt, self pity and victim mentality to emotionally get us to bend to her will.

That sounds like an unconscious inner struggle with materialism.
But i think this is only a symptom of an other deeper problem.

I guess the main concern I have is the polarity issue in that I feel guilty for enjoying this emotional relief and freedom from her.  I worry that if I contact her, nothing will change and I'll be pulled back into her behavior but I also don't want to lose a parent and I see that her behavior stems from deep pain and trauma and I honestly don't know if she is fully aware of what she is doing to herself and those around her.

It seems that you have only the choice to fulfill her control or keep your freedom.
So your last conclusion is correct and you must decide how to handle this catalyst.

From my experience there is no really decision possible, because you have to decide between the feelings to your mother and fulfilling the will of someone else (STS).
The logic choice for a being in STO is to accept that you can't be in STO by fulfilling STS.

I do not think it is fair to bring STS and STO into a discussion which clearly is surrounded by confusion, mental confusion which is due to trauma.

This is a very difficult subject because this is a trauma that is being replicated and being passed from mother to child. Living with a narcissist can literally be a living hell and will likely injure the entire family. Generally speaking, it is a generational mental/emotional disorder. The narcissist gets worse over time as the narcissist sees that the children are growing up and getting ready to leave the home or have left the home and so they need to maintain a strong level of control at a distance. The healing involved for the children can take literal years of work while they uncover one trauma at a time. So, with that being said...perhaps you are to consider yourself and your personal mental health. Having her gone for a moment has given you all a much needed break. The stress the entire family has been under due to her illness has been no doubt great. Perhaps you could take this much needed time and do some self discovery? Ask yourself, why not have a small break? It does not mean you do not love her and worry for her. She is an adult and trust me, she is fine. They have no intention of self harm if she is a true narcissist. She will be back in one form or another. Please consider your guilt for wanting this time of rest and quiet.
Living with someone like this distorts our thinking and clouds our judgement. Our thoughts will be forever turned toward what the narcissist wants and needs and we will continually forget about our own needs. This leads to us feeling very unworthy of anything that would considered to be "deserving" like love, care, rest and even something simple like eating. This is time that your family has been gifted to you. Hopefully you can see it this way.
-much love

Thanks for the clarification!  I struggle with the guilt that she has instilled in us the most and that's what was causing me pain. She isn't bad or a monster. it's just her disorder that makes it hard.  I think what is truly at the root of my pain is that I want an emotionally functional family who is there for their children.  Seeing her break away is just more of a sign of the unit falling away even more so then it already was.  And I know that my desire for functional parents has made me gravitate to relationships that mimic the behavior of one of my parents and/or as a surrogate parent to the detriment of myself.

This sort of family dynamic is very common and extremely damaging. If I were to give my opinion based on the little that I know...you did the correct thing by allowing her to have her way which was to leave and by allowing respite for you and your family. Definitely this family dysfunction is a recipe for making children become martyrs because they generally are more responsible for the unit than the parent is able to be and this responsibility is so definite that they "fix" the broken parts of the family. It sounds as if you see this in yourself, the ability to have some actions that are akin to being a martyr. No problem. I feel this is half the battle, the knowing of your own capabilities. It sort of sounds like you will have to create your own sense of unity within yourself as your hoped for family will not be able to provide this for you. Again, I think you know this even though your heart yearns for some healing within your family. I feel you have a lot of really strong qualities and are self realized.
Your mother will probably return, ok? And if she does not, nothing "made her leave", as always, it is our choice. Aw, your Mother is in pain but please know that their pain will have to be repaired by them and all you can do is work on your own strength and love her (while remaining safe from manipulation).
She manipulates because she feels she is not worthy of love "just because", she feels she has to coherse people into loving her.

[Dtris]

Some problems are best left without consideration of STS vs STO.

When a person we love is in pain or has a negative behavior pattern, it can be very very hard to watch. We want to help. The best you can do is to be completely honest and open in a non-judgemental way about what you believe to be the situation and your willingness to help make the situation better, and the love for all involved.

The person who you are attempting to help, may not accept help at this time, or be willing or able to see the situation thru the eyes of those close to them.

Once the person has denied help, then you have to make a choice, what is in your own best interest. Not for you, but so you can be there again in the future to offer an opportunity for healing. If you allow yourself to be caught in the chaos which certain individuals seek out and bring with them, then it will stagnate your own growth and potential to be who you truly are.

One aspect which can be hard to accept, is that since we create our own reality, then your mother, and everyone else with distortions commonly labeled mental illness, is creating that reality for themselves. This means at some level there is a lesson they are attempting to learn in that reality. It is not for us to try to figure out the lesson and learn it for them. All we can do is love and accept them and their distortions and forgive them for the pain they bring into your life and others. This pain may, or may not, be deliberate, but it doesn't matter either way. You can forgive and love them all the same, and be ready to help when they are willing to accept it.

Just prepare yourself that as much as you desire to help, they may not be ready in this life for it. That is ok too.

[Sacred Fool]

 
I would add to what's above that it could be helpful to think of the spiritual lessons you are learning here.  First, you're getting an intense and intimate view of what an energy blockage can look like.  Tons of energy are being poured into your mother's situation, yet it all goes round and round in circles, never moving upwards towards the heart.  The energy applied is being spent, I would guess, on survival concerns and it simply gets burned up without anything productive coming from it.  If in your future you see signs of something like this again, you'll have a way of viewing it from what you've experienced here.
 
Also, there's an element of power vs. love vs. wisdom.  Should you use whatever power you have in the service of love when that power is just going right up the chimney?  That's a lesson for you to ponder.  In this situation, what is the best use of your energy?
 
It can be hard to think about spiritual growth when your own thoughts and energies are being pulled to the level of personal and family coherence and rectitude.  But it's situations like this which can afford you the space to consider the spiritual aspects of your own existence.  I would say that your posting about this points to your own own inclination to do this, and I heartily support your efforts to do so.

 

[Fuse]

The question would have been if my choice to not chase after my mom after she officially walked out of the family was a STS move because I would be free of her emotional manipulation and pull.

I absolutely DO NOT feel that the choice to allow her to go was in any way an STS choice on your part. Quite the contrary.

First, her actions in leaving were an attempt to manipulate and control you, as you rightly identified. But you didn't cut off contact with her, SHE chose that. If anything you are honoring her free will to choose that route for herself. Further, your sense of relief is only a natural response to the reduction of threat in your immediate surroundings. The sudden absence of a situation of long-term abuse is naturally quite freeing. Enjoying the freedom that she granted you is in no way an STS action, and I feel STRONGLY that you needn't feel guilty for it. Allowing yourself to feel guilty about that is exactly what she wants, and only places you back within the STS structure that she creates around her. As it stands now you are freed from that. That is cause for celebration, if understandably a somewhat melancholic one.

Even if you had chosen to protect yourselves by proactively cutting off contact with her, it would not be an STS choice on your part. Lots of people are unfamiliar with NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), but it is a heartbreaking condition, and devastating to have to witness firsthand. It sounds like you and your family are doing your research, but your brother and father are correct that there is no hope for her, and that you shouldn't strive to maintain contact. NPD is a terminal condition, in that people who develop it DO NOT get better. Tragically, it is very unlikely that someone suffering from it can ever be trusted. In fact, once she determines that this current effort to manipulate you all into placing yourselves back under her power has failed, she will very likely try to come up with some new approach. At that point, it will become even more difficult to protect yourselves, but you absolutely should.

NPD is not like other mental health conditions. In fact, my own theory on this is that only souls very dedicated to the STS path will ever choose an incarnation as someone who suffers from it. It's the only thing I've been able to come up with that explains the well-documented fact that basically 100% of NPD sufferers fail to ever change their patterns or experience healing of any kind related to it.

I speak, sadly, from painful personal experience, having also been raised by a vulnerable narcissist. In my case, it was a stepmother who my father married when I was 7. She was physically violent, mostly to me, though occasionally to my younger brother as well. She liked to hit me with kitchen implements employed as weapons, blows always carefully aimed at my head so my hair would hide any bruising. She also manipulated my poor father, and he believed her lies about us hating her so much that we made up stories about her. (My brother and I are more or less okay now. My father still carries a lot of guilt about failing to protect us, though I think he's doing okay too. All three of us now have happy lives and healthy romantic relationships, and none of us seem to have carried the cycle forward, thank goodness.)

Eventually we grew up and got out of there, but that didn't stop her efforts to control us. Once we kids were out of the house, she found my father to be an unsatisfying victim, so she left him. She moved on to other victims for a while, and we thought we were free. But since we weren't fully aware of her diagnosis yet, she was able to successfully develop new tactics to rope us back in. And this is where things get insidious, and where I share a warning for you.

Vulnerable narcissists, sadly, often keep a nuclear option in their back pocket for situations when all other methods of control fail to achieve the desired result: threats of suicide. Over the subsequent twenty years, she has used suicidal threats to get us to do what she wants, even getting me to move in with her for months-long stretches on several occasions in order to be her "caregiver." Looking back now, it's rather shocking to realize that that "caregiving" mostly involved checking things off of her to-do-lists for her, or otherwise engaging in activities that involved ceding my freedom and self-determinative power to her. In the last few years those efforts even turned to trying to get us to pay for things for her, even though she is the only one of us who isn't a renter, who actually owns her home outright, and has more money than any of us. The STS life can be profitable, after all, at least in those 3D terms.

Thankfully, though, my brother got into therapy himself, and was quickly diagnosed as the child of a vulnerable narcissist. That led us, finally, to the information we needed in order to realize that we had to protect ourselves from her. Eventually she forced a confrontation about it with me, and I ended up telling her everything we had learned about her. It did not go particularly well, as you might imagine. But after that argument, none of us are under any further illusions about the nature of our relationships, including her. This is healthy, and I think it's the greatest (if possibly the last) act of service that I can do for her, not to mention myself and the rest of my family. That said, I would be surprised if she doesn't try again someday. I guess we'll see.

Should I have let her maintain that power over me, power to manipulate and control me? Would remaining in the STS structures that she builds around her everywhere she goes have been an STO choice from my perspective? I guess it's possible. But there are plenty of other opportunities for me to serve others in this world, and I avail myself of them. And in those relationships, all of our individual cups of blessing overflow back and forth into each others' lives in ways that are beautiful and healthy...exactly the kind of heavenly structures of collective consciousness that all of us here are hoping to see form more broadly in our world.

[Margan]

It is not STS to protect yourself from an unhealthy situation. I know what you speak about, being prone to feelings of guilt myself (we have a narcissist in our extended family who was good at those tactics, thank god there is no contact anymore I have not seen her for more than two years now)
Know that it is not you, it is them.... and if at all a narcissist learns it is the hard way. Like when people around them leave, and are not playing along with their game etc.
You are actually doing them a favor that way.
I wish you well! stay strong and remember to say "thank you for your service and the catalyst you provided" and then let them go.
I know it is hard since it is your mum in this case.
You can also check for forums or websites about narcissism - or support groups. You will see you are not alone in this.
Much love and light to you!

[Anders]

Notice that service-to-self can also involve collective egos. One example of the smallest collective egos is a marriage. Why do we need a license for a personal relationship between only two people? It's completely absurd from a higher density perspective.

I haven't checked what Ra says about it in the Law of One but in a A Course in Miracles it's called special relationships. And in ACIM terminology the word special here doesn't mean valuable or precious, it means that it sucks, haha.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:43-48

[Anders]

Then what about family relationships? Many Christians supposedly promote family values. And it's true that a level below family values is barbaric, but notice that even animals in nature form families, so it's a very low level of social intelligence. That's why Jesus came with a sword to break up the family unit in order for us to evolve into higher densities:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

“a man against his father,
   a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’" - Matthew 10:34-36

[Inkshards]

Thank you all for your help and advice! It has helped with my guilt about my decision!

I'm going to be steadfast and continue to not contact her since she is the one who made the choice to leave.

I think deep down I needed consolation in my choice, and I thank you all for helping me in that!