What is stillness?

[Steppingfeet]

To keep the OP short, I’ll post a bit of backstory in the next post. It is not essential to my question.

I perform a breathing exercise every morning. During a period of two minutes or so when I stop all respiration following an exhale, I have recently begun asking myself "What is stillness?" … “Where is stillness?”

It’s difficult to explain. I don't make a mental project of it or begin theorizing or thinking about stillness, precisely. It’s as if I go looking for it, or summon it, or shift the attention from mental processes to the stillness that underlies all things, and it begins to manifest and become embodied.

Something about being in this particular physiological state of sustained breath retention makes stillness and silence more accessible. I find myself able to be still. That’s it, to be still. In mind and body, to be still. And silent.

The heart still beats, the blood still circulates, the neurotransmitters are still online, but I start to slip into an inner poise and one-pointedness that allows me to… be still through a single but gentle focus.

And I notice a corollary increase in my focus and concentration, and a downshifting, so to speak, in my normal daily seated meditation.

I am really drawn by this desire for perfect stillness and silence. There is peace there. And rest. And the opening of the gateways to evolution. And… something.

Wondering if you have firsthand experience and wisdom or Life Pro Tips to share about silence, stillness, and one-pointedness.

[Steppingfeet]

Backstory: I read a book called Breath last year. Highly recommend. Amazing the connection between breath and mind, well-being and vitality. Amazing also how poorly we generally breathe. In the book I was turned onto a fellow named Wim Hoff.


He is affectionately called the "Ice Man" for doing extraordinary things like swimming almost two hundred feet (66m) under ice, submersing himself in icy water for extended periods, running 13+ miles in the Artic barefoot and clad only in shorts, etc. On on the flip side, running a full marathon through a desert without drinking water, and other feats of consciously influencing the autonomous nervous system, not unlike what those Tibbetan monks do when they meditate on a snow mountaintop with wet clothes that start to become steamy as they raise their body temperature through Tummo breathing exercises.

He's an eccentric and endearing soul, from what I can gather in his videos, with incredible self-control and determination. I took his online course but got stopped halfway through due to tragedy in my family last November. At the time I was submerging and keeping my hands in ice water (no easy thing let me tell you!) and taking extended lowest setting cold showers (WOW what an energizer!). But while my course work is arrested, I have continued every morning to practice the breathing technique I learned from him, along with occasional cold showers.

Lying on my back, I do 30 or so deep and rapid inhalations and exhalations: in through the belly, chest, head, oouuuttttt. In through the belly, chest, head, outttt. After the exhale on the 30th breath, I hold the breath for about two minutes. My body is highly oxygenated but there is no air (or virtually no air) in the lungs.

If my mind is not a factory of busy bees, during these 2+ min I feel a liquid peace settle over me. There is a sort of physiological stillness and ease.

And when I sense that it is time to inhale, I quickly draw in a deep and full breath and hold it. In tandem I tense and contract my lower and upper torso and my neck, placing my hands into a prayer position while visualizing energy or light moving upward to my crown.

(The hand in prayer is my own addition. Wim Hoff says that in this stage one is sending blood up to the brain. And in his characteristic humor and Dutch accent, refers to this as being "like drugs." I suspect that more than blood is moving upward. I think that prana is as well.)

I hold the breath and the tensed muscles for 30 or so seconds, release, and then repeat the whole process another two or more rounds.

I feel charged and energized, but at rest; vital but still. My head cleared of its cobwebs. It is typically the very first thing I do each morning.

It's incredibly simple. I think you can pick it up online for free. Let me look. ... Here's a version of it, though it doesn't seem to include the tensing and contracting of the muscles I describe above in the retention following inhale. (This video is just his voice. He's great to watch doing it live.)

[Ymarsakar]

I have a similar state 24 7. I wake up with it. I go to sleep with it. Sometines human interaction interrupots it but it is aleays there if i want it. It is not the peace that surpoasses understanding orbthe joy bliss state.

The human mind is under a control system some call red spider threads. Meditation and stillness uses the will to temporarily wake up from this net, allowijg one to pull the threads off. Which i went through such a process yes.

Until the threads are pulled out like neo in matrix 1, the moment you lose focus you are back to normal and lose that state. Every person before they were born, had these threads in the aura fields. Moksha is called final liberation for a reason.

Those who have achieved it and samadhi, have a lot easier time but it still requires effort. Just not 21 years of effort one life time.

By controlling the breath to stop, your spirit fuloy merges with the mijd and body momentarily. This was supposed to be the default state. But now it is a state that requires mortals to fast and consciously strive for.

I know of wim the ice man. I linked a video of a female student sigging a hole in norway sweden ice lake and daily ice full submerge there. His method is notbwhat i used but it is very easy for westerners to get the feeling of due to how extreme it is.

I used chi gong s yang ming s embryonic breathing since 2006 or 9 something. Like many things i forgot.

I notice you used the term cobwebs. That is your intuition giving a hint.

I used to have intrusive thoughts and worries and other stuff going in my head. The higher the iq and memory the wose it is.

It is quite different when you have enough oxygen to power the full mind body spirit complex link. You are technically really awake now. With this awareness your will power is very high. This opportunity can be used to reprogram your body... or learn divine truths or break free of the control network. Powered by your true will, the universe obeys much faster.

[LeiwoUnion]

Interesting

[jafar]

This is a good quick explanation about 5 layer of virtual sheathings (a.k.a bodies) and how breath correlate with it.



The less activity that you perform the more you will perceive.
The more stillness that you're able to maintain the more you will perceive.

[Doomchief]

The topic has infinite depth but without going into personal experience (intuition tells me it may be unwise) I think a possibly fruitful approach to finding the stillness is to consider the Archetypical mind. I which certain elements are capable of movement or constant movement (like the Matrix of the body) and some are still (like the Matrix of the mind and the Matrix of the spirit). So there may be found dynamics in the mind that is happening within total stillness.
Another point is that some Archetypes are used by both polarities being as a common ground.
For some perhaps more advanced level of meditation is the notion that this silence ends nowhere. Ein Sof

[Doomchief]

The breathing if viewed metaphysically is filling the body with the intelligent energy of the Creator. Through the feet to the red ray and upwards. While breath retention is a viable way to get closer to the Father. The longer the retention the more intense may be the meditation. Resulting in accessing roots of the Mind and doing substantial work.
I'm positive there's a channeling session where Hatonn describes what can be called Wom Hof method as a means to get in communion with the Creator.

[Ymarsakar]

Hatonn is like a big spoiler

It may be unwise to see doomchief s personal xp.... i see i see. We might be doomed haha

[Doomchief]

All experience carefully stored within the Social memory complex
I view this communication as the dialogue with the One Who is All knowing my actions probably better than myself. So talking about the past may be seen as repetition and talking in general about the evolution of the Mind can be a more useful catalyst.
I feel some personal responsibility for the information I want to share. My intention is be of service and if someone may have a terrible experience trying to replicate some of the magic work without proper intentions that wouldn't be the case.

[Ymarsakar]

All experience carefully stored within the Social memory complex
I view this communication as the dialogue with the One Who is All knowing my actions probably better than myself. So talking about the past may be seen as repetition and talking in general about the evolution of the Mind can be a more useful catalyst.
I feel some personal responsibility for the information I want to share. My intention is be of service and if someone may have a terrible experience trying to replicate some of the magic work without proper intentions that wouldn't be the case.

So anyone that wants to know, pm doom.

[LeafieGreens]

There is a synchronicity occurring right now around Wim Hof -- he has recently been mentioned in multiple threads. We should take notice.

He has many free videos available on Youtube.

I have now been doing the Wim Hof method for over a year and have experienced intense growth and I strongly believe it has helped me attain my awakening faster. And also it helps me to integrate the tons of information I am taking in from all levels.

In essence, Steppingfeet and others are onto something.

It is in that breathless stillness that I have been able to receive direct messages from my higher self / star friends. I also can feel the higher vibrational energy buzzing in my entire body and out my fingertips when doing the Wim Hof method.

It is in this place that one has access to Intelligent Infinity, and if you have an open heart and a clear intention, you can tap into this energy to do some really neat things.

I am just beginning to figure this all out but I think perhaps it is beneficial to share more.

Wim Hof is a great way for a Western mind to gain access to a greater understanding of the 'S' part of the whole 'M/B/S' system.

[Doomchief]

So anyone that wants to know, pm doom.

And get redirected within and to meditation

[Diana]

I will add that this stillness may be the letting go of past and future—being "in the now" as Eckhart Tolle puts it.

Concerns that are with us constantly in this life are based on the past (regrets, successes, loss, mistakes, triggers from trauma, familial origins, etc.) and the future (what will happen, what can I do differently, how can I plan for a good life, how will I survive, what will I make for dinner, etc.). When we are able to transcend those phantoms, and be present, so much of the baggage we carry is dropped and unimportant, leaving energy and focus and availability to that which is beyond those 3D concerns. 

This is one reason why creative pursuits are so effective—they allow for at least some immersion into the now, and thus the opening into intelligent infinity. I imagine the breathing you speak of Steppingfeet, is the same—an adventure away from left-brained, linear, accounting of tasks, concerns, background noise and internal dialogue, into the right-brain space of creativity and wordlessness where one is limitless and free to float around in any direction unencumbered by the physical—but one finds at a certain point there is no desire to even adventure, as the space one is in is everything (all possibilities) all at once. It is accessing the wave function where all possibilities are suspended, and leaving the particle function where all is collapsed into one outcome—which is really hard to do since there is a strong collective agreement on that collapsed version of reality. This is me trying to articulate the indescribable out of a very limited comprehension.

A lot has beed written about prana. So perhaps there is something inherently magical in breath itself, in guiding us away from the physical into the realm of the spirit. When you (Steppingfeet) described the body still functioning, it made me think of the Matrices of the Archetypes (especially the body), and in doing the breathing accessing the Potentiators.  

[native]

I read Nestor's book too (and have done the Wim stuff), which finally spurred me to actually formally read about yoga, the classic texts etc., since yoga is the system those two were coming from, as well as considering that so much of the esoteric comes from yoga. There are various schools of yoga that cross-pollinate and have all kinds of opinions, techniques, and conclusions, but you might be interested in reading the Mandukya Upanishad (I recommend Enlightenment without God by Swami Rama. Swami Rama is one of the yogis mentioned in Nestor's book). For many yogis, the goal is samadhi, the ultimate stillness that you're talking about which is described in various Upanishads but summarized succinctly in the Mandukya.

The Mandukya says there are 3 states of consciousness, culminating in the fourth. There is the waking state (realm of the senses), the dreaming state, and deep sleep (which isn't really sleep but pure stillness/transcendent awareness). We enter this state each night but don't remember it. One can access it various ways, but one technique is called yoga nidra. It's explained in Rama's book, but I also recommend Yoga Nidra by Saraswati. I could keep going but it would be long. The Mandukya explains how AUM (Om) represents these three states, what they mean, how everything is made of sound/vibration etc.

Yoga is interesting but I don't like to commit to any one teaching in particular these days. Although I would like to explore yoga nidra further.

[Louisabell]

I don't know if what I can offer is of any use really. I'm not the best at the practice of stillness for the sake of it. Stillness for me is opening up to the possibility of going deeper. Going deeper into the moment, which really for me is going deeper into the mind that is perceiving the moment. As I go further in, I seem to always find something within that I get enamoured with. Something of great interest to me. Usually this is when I reach the point where thought is pre-conceptual and mostly impressional

(even before I consciously embarked on any spiritual practice I would try to "catch" a thought before it turned into an inner dialogue, and just sit with it, allowing the "information" contained within it to impress on me without words, this was my idea of fun, causing in me total wonderment as to where these magical packets of "information" sprung from!)

I suppose this interest draws me in, and I easily lose myself in the act of observing the inner movements of my own mind.  This interest is most conducive to maintaining a single pointed attention, for I could do this for long periods of time, if only my lifestyle would allow it. But perhaps I'm simply entertaining myself and I'm just an addict to insight. Either way, it feels good.

Sorry, this was all unrelated to breathwork, which admittedly, I've never tried.

[Ymarsakar]

There is a synchronicity occurring right now around Wim Hof -- he has recently been mentioned in multiple threads. We should take notice.

He has many free videos available on Youtube.

I have now been doing the Wim Hof method for over a year and have experienced intense growth and I strongly believe it has helped me attain my awakening faster. And also it helps me to integrate the tons of information I am taking in from all levels.

In essence, Steppingfeet and others are onto something.

It is in that breathless stillness that I have been able to receive direct messages from my higher self / star friends. I also can feel the higher vibrational energy buzzing in my entire body and out my fingertips when doing the Wim Hof method.

It is in this place that one has access to Intelligent Infinity, and if you have an open heart and a clear intention, you can tap into this energy to do some really neat things.

I am just beginning to figure this all out but I think perhaps it is beneficial to share more.

Wim Hof is a great way for a Western mind to gain access to a greater understanding of the 'S' part of the whole 'M/B/S' system.

His method is rather close to Bellows breathing, Shaolin chi gong conditioning, iron shirt, cold/heat elemental conditioning, and the Yoga nostril breathing methods.

While Eastern practices have penetrated to some degree the zeigeist of the West, it eventually just crashes against the ice wall of Western materialism and mental barriers. The barrier of "if it works, then prove it". Strangely enough, it is going in the reverse in the East. China/India is becoming enamored of Western education and prosperity, to the point of abandoning the ancient lineages. Often family lines no longer have blood heirs. They have to go invite in foreigners, North Americans even, who are interested in the ancient Nordic I mean internal Asian arts like Tai Chi, Xing Yi, Bagua. Ironically, sometimes this makes the children of the blood line holders, envious that these Westerners would spend mega bucks to go live in a rural dump that is inferior to the cities, who pay close attention and even worship the ancient knowledge. A kind of reverse open eye situation.

Wim Hoff, thus "proved it", even though his methods are not much different from the Yogic/Chan Buddhism methods of bone marrow washing and chi cultivation.

[Steppingfeet]

Whether or not replying directly to me, thank you Ymarsakar, Jafar, Doomchief, LeafieGreens, Diana, native, and Louisabell.

Doomchief - "For some perhaps more advanced level of meditation is the notion that this silence ends nowhere."

I love this thought. Silence is dimensionless. Just as with infinity, there are no boundaries to discover. And how much of our attention and indeed identity is spent flitting on the noisy surface, consciously unaware of the infinite silent depths.

LeafieGreens: - "Wim Hof is a great  way for a Western mind to gain access to a greater understanding of the 'S' part of the whole 'M/B/S' system."

I didn’t realize that he had appeared in multiple places on Bring4th. Indeed for a Western audience I think he is a much easier entrance point into breath work.

In fact, I was taking his course last year with the intention of using it as a stepping stone for deeper exploration of pranayama. His work seems to explore psych-physical aspects, but doesn't explicitly explore the spiritual realm, at least in my limited taste of it. Naturally one can use his work for those means.

I think that breathwork in general can be one of the most profound disciplines for working with, as you said, the “S” part of the mind/body/spirit complex system.

Would be interested in hearing more about your experience with Hoff’s system.

Diana:
"When we are able to transcend those phantoms, and be present, so much of the baggage we carry is dropped and unimportant, leaving energy and focus and availability to that which is beyond those 3D concerns."

Beautifully written, this post. All that baggage, all those concerns, all of it: the passions, positions, intellectualizations…. all the noise obscures the silence and promotes total unconscious identification with the mind. This results in the ultimate phantom: the individual self, insofar as the individual is perceived as something which exists independently and apart or separate from the All.

Not to make an enemy of the mind and its passion play. It's just estranged and imbalanced and even pathological when not grounded in silence.

native -  "you might be interested in reading the Mandukya Upanishad (I recommend Enlightenment without God by Swami Rama. Swami Rama is one of the yogis mentioned in Nestor's book). For many yogis, the goal is samadhi, the ultimate stillness that you're talking about which is described in various Upanishads but summarized succinctly in the Mandukya."

Thanks native for the recommendation of Mandukya Upanishad. I’ve added it to my list.

“Dhyana” is the term I’ve heard applied to this ultimate, one-pointed stillness. An absorption so total that it becomes the chief practice for one seeking self-realization.

You mentioned Saraswati. I get lost in the names and offices of various yogis. I don’t know if that is the same author as Prana and Pranayama. f so, then I have read most of the non-exercise portion of that book and I love it.

His explanation of the primal formation and operation of the universe is the single closest parallel to the Primal Distortions that I’ve discovered outside of the Law of One. It could be mapped onto the Free Will, Logos, and Light fairly efficiently.

I had been practicing nadi shodhana for a period, and I really want to make a discipline of using the practices in that book, but as with participating in the forum, time is just so damned short.

Louisabell: - "(even before I consciously embarked on any spiritual practice I would try to "catch" a thought before it turned into an inner dialogue, and just sit with it, allowing the "information" contained within it to impress on me without words, this was my idea of fun, causing in me total wonderment as to where these magical packets of "information" sprung from!)

I suppose this interest draws me in, and I easily lose myself in the act of observing the inner movements of my own mind.  This interest is most conducive to maintaining a single pointed attention, for I could do this for long periods of time, if only my lifestyle would allow it. But perhaps I'm simply entertaining myself and I'm just an addict to insight. Either way, it feels good."

That is fascinating, Louisabell. I’ve read about people with sufficient presence of mind (typically through disciplined practice) that they can operate in such a high state of relaxed alertness that they are present for the inception of each thought.

I mean, I’ve meditated long enough to notice when a thought has arisen as I inhabit greater presence, but I don’t have this type of mental control and detachment you’re describing. Given that this seems to be a native ability for you, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn about considerable work in past incarnations (irrelevant though that point may be).
In the second paragraph quoted above you point to what is key both to the insight addict’s exercise and the entrance into consciously experienced silence: single-pointed attention.

That’s what I feel coming online more when I practice this extended breath retention as described in the OP. Attention and stillness are two strands in the same rope, so far as I can see. And I really want to spend more time there, as it were.

[Doomchief]

I think an observation may be made that while meditating one can "loosen up" the awareness and be a bit "amorphous" or the mind can be "centered" and "composed" while at the same time relaxed on the waves of the Creator. And I feel that in a sense stillness enjoys the latter. Because after all it is your own silence and paying attention is appreciated

[Ymarsakar]

I think people should aim for 24 samadhi state. Easier that way. I listed 3 types elsewhere.

Time distortion matrix effect.

Bliss unification state.

No emotion objective state. Very crude summaries.

[flofrog]

Thank you Native for mentioning yoga nidra with Nirajananda Saraswati, it's indeed wonderful. I love Saraswati too.. she is my favorite archetype.

[native]

You mentioned Saraswati. I get lost in the names and offices of various yogis. I don’t know if that is the same author as Prana and Pranayama. f so, then I have read most of the non-exercise portion of that book and I love it.

His explanation of the primal formation and operation of the universe is the single closest parallel to the Primal Distortions that I’ve discovered outside of the Law of One. It could be mapped onto the Free Will, Logos, and Light fairly efficiently.

Yeah I get confused too! I have that book you mention but haven't dug too deep into it..this is the one I was referring to but they're of the same Saraswati lineage. It's short but it's worth a read. Regarding yoga nidra, the technique is that you scan your body mentally through various points on your body, while listening to audio or the noises around you so that it anchors your consciousness and remains aware when it breaks from the waking state, zipping past the dream state landing in that primordial awareness. It works surprisingly easy but I have yet to be able to remain there..I always wake up.

Interestingly, the Bon indigenous tradition of Tibet which gave birth to Dzogchen was also aware of this state. They even developed postures and pranayama independently of the Indian yogis although they're not necessary. So Dzogchen is a non-dual teaching all about realizing this state as well. I've just started reading Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's books on Dzogchen..they're awesome and he was a great teacher.

[native]

Thank you Native for mentioning yoga nidra with Nirajananda Saraswati, it's indeed wonderful.  I love Saraswati too.. she  is my favorite archetype.

You're welcome I actually didn't know that about Saraswati herself..thanks for mentioning it.

[flofrog]

Saraswati is the Indian goddess of arts, music, speech and wisdom. She appears in the Rigveda. She is also linked to water, lakes and ponds and is often painted with a luth sitting next to a lake. I always liked her because she is also very witty, she is a fun goddess. I have an image of her and I often start a mediation with it and there's always a blissful feeling, perhaps it's all that water...

[Ming the Merciful]

You want stillness, I have stillness. I was browsing the Internet, (as one does), and happenstance and Chaos, (the Mother of the God(s)), led me to this website, and there is an extremely good book on the subject of "Stillness". In a related search, has anyone read the books by Eckhart Tolle, (recommended reading).

Chaos is playing tricks with me, and it will not allow me to paste the address. I shall find it again.

https://www.perfectbrilliantstillness.org/book/

[Patrick]

I learned how to remain untriggered while remaining myself from Tolle.

[Ming the Merciful]

I learned how to remain untriggered while remaining myself from Tolle.

Stillness is a "State of Mind"?

The old metaphor, "Stillness as in a still pond".

[Patrick]

I learned how to remain untriggered while remaining myself from Tolle.

Stillness is a "State of Mind"?

The old metaphor, "Stillness as in a still pond".

"While remaining myself" means that this stillness is present even while I am interacting with someone that is turbulent emotionally. The more obvious stillness state is the one we normally experience in meditation. But having this inside you while interacting with others takes a different type of presence. You are basically witnessing your mental body react to the turbulent interaction, instead of thinking that this mental body is you. So you can reach a type of detachment.

[Ming the Merciful]

I learned how to remain untriggered while remaining myself from Tolle.

Stillness is a "State of Mind"?

The old metaphor, "Stillness as in a still pond".

"While remaining myself" means that this stillness is present even while I am interacting with someone that is turbulent emotionally. The more obvious stillness state is the one we normally experience in meditation. But having this inside you while interacting with others takes a different type of presence. You are basically witnessing your mental body react to the turbulent interaction, instead of thinking that this mental body is you. So you can reach a type of detachment.

Well said Patrick. The "Key" is to cultivate Stillness, so it becomes the natural order of things. Whereby, Stillness is the natural state, while thinking and interacting with the outside world becomes secondary. We are Still first, and then interaction. Once you have achieved that, everything changes, (literally). Do you control the Mind, or does the Mind control you? I am Master of my own thoughts. Did you know, that when you are in "Controlled Stillness", you can hear the subconscious thought before it develops into the thought? With practice, even Subconscious Mind can be controlled.

[Patrick]

I would substitute controlled with disciplined.

[Ming the Merciful]

I would substitute controlled with disciplined.

Controlled, Disciplined? Words are words. The outcome is the same. I shall throw a stone into the still pond and watch the waves ripple.

Then that would disturb the evolving wildlife within the pond, and the frog would become a mouse in its next incarnation. Beware of the "Self-Realized Frog". It is also a potential Buddha.

One step at a time, my friend, (one step at a time).

Patience is a virtue and we do not have many virtues left.

Sometimes I am too philosophical for my own good, it will be my downfall.