Is there a need for death in fourth density?

[Ohr Ein Sof]

I find it a bit hard to decode this, but I will give it a biased try.

"Questioner: You are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

We may respond to the heart of your questioning by noting that the purpose of such combined activation of mind/body/spirit complexes is that such entities, to some extent, consciously are aware of those fourth-density understandings which third density is unable to remember due to the forgetting. Thus fourth-density experience may be begun with the added attraction, to an entity oriented towards service to others, of dwelling in a troubled third-density environment and offering its love and compassion." - Law of One 63.14

The text "fourth-density experience may be begun with the added attraction" could possibly mean entering fourth density directly from a third density body without having to die first.

Yeah this has been talked about at length in the forum before. I cannot remember the name of the thread but both bodies must die and think of this....you get a brand new body in 4th density! You really don't want to keep this one as there is no real need for it because you get an upgrade when you leave here so as long as we can make it to 4th density.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

@ Anders...the earth that you reside right now will go into potentiation and a new earth will be birthed which will be in a new locus within, I assume, this solar system (someone will have to correct me or add to this is I am off or incorrect here), we are now experiencing 4th density ***vibrations***. Some will say we have entered the Aquarian Age and others will say we haven't yet. I believe we have since around the year 1900. I have no proof for this except for what I have read however.
When we die and leave 3rd density (if we have reached this point of becoming more dense with light) we will go to the higher astral planes which some may call "heaven", we call it here, 4th density, the density of love and understanding meanwhile 3rd density earth goes into what is known as potentiation. I know you are hopeful for a different outcome but the truth is, you must pass away, go to the astral planes, walk the steps of light and then you will be in a place that is conducive to your healing needs within the astral planes and then to plan once more another space/time or time/space location (ugh, words) that is beneficial for your paticular needs as an evolving entity who seeks the Creator. I know dying sounds like a drag. You must be young.... jk though you may be....when you get older and have dealt with the body being sick and lacking, you will beg to just be done with this yellow ray body.
Look, it may be what you have said...in a flash, suddenly we are out of these bodies. Would that be great? If all of a sudden you could walk and walk for miles never feeling tired and just enjoying the beautiful landscape? Is that not better than your feet screaming at you to sit down, and you lower back aching so badly you cannot even think about the beautiful butterfly that entered into frame? Lol. It is true! We must learn that all things must die and hopefully it will come about in a natural way and not by what the negative power hungry elites threaten which is nuclear war.

[Anders]

@ Anders...the earth that you reside right now will go into potentiation and a new earth will be birthed which will be in a new locus within, I assume, this solar system (someone will have to correct me or add to this is I am off or incorrect here), we are now experiencing 4th density ***vibrations***.

I haven't checked with the Law of One but my idea is that the new earth is the same as this earth! Because our current earth is already in fourth density. And it's "just" that the material world still operates in third density.

So what will happen I assume, or has already happened, is that physical matter and energy on this earth will start to vibrate at a higher density. Maybe the Law of One doesn't mention it. In the Bible I think of "the kingdom of God is within you" as meaning that the higher densities are already here and in us behind the fallen world / third density veil. So the kingdom of God is not out there somewhere else.

"Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”[c]

c. Luke 17:21 Or is within you" - Luke 17:20-21 (NIV)

[Anders]

... it may be what you have said...in a flash, suddenly we are out of these bodies. Would that be great? If all of a sudden you could walk and walk for miles never feeling tired and just enjoying the beautiful landscape?

It's the Bible that talks about how our bodies will change in the twinkle of an eye. But even if that's the case I believe to begin with our bodies will more or less be the same as our third density bodies, and then it will take many years to learn how to use fourth density skills. I assume that's why the Bible says that unless we become like little children we cannot enter the kingdom of [the first] heaven / fourth density. And that's why the meek are blessed, because we need to be meek in the beginning before we have more experience and skills of how to use fourth density capacity.

[Anders]

As an example to illustrate my idea, can a person who is say 90 years old enter fourth density without having to die first? My idea is that yes, that's possible. If the shift into fourth density happens suddenly, then the body of the 90 year old person will still look the same and then gradually start reverse in aging. And the reverse of the effects of aging I predict will happen much quicker than the process of aging in third density, for example reversing 10 years in one year.

Much later, or at least decades later the person will be able to teach/learn more advanced skills such as levitation and teleportation.

"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." - John 14:12

[Anders]

If reality has infinite intelligence then why can't we shift into the 7th density or even into next octave right away? Because that would be a limited form of creation. And that's why fourth density has less capacity than the fifth and higher densities.

I haven't found yet what the Law of One says about shapeshifting the physical body other than Ra says that the fifth density body is made of light, something like that, and that it can take any physical form which means shapeshifting capability.

Will we be able to shapeshift our bodies even in fourth density? I think so, but to a lesser degree. We may be able in fourth density to change our physical appearance, maybe even at later fourth density stages shapeshift between male and female form, but I suspect that the shapeshifting capacity in fourth density will be limited to human body forms.

[Sacred Fool]

As an example to illustrate my idea, can a person who is say 90 years old enter fourth density without having to die first? My idea is that yes, that's possible. If the shift into fourth density happens suddenly, then the body of the 90 year old person will still look the same and then gradually start reverse in aging. And the reverse of the effects of aging I predict will happen much quicker than the process of aging in third density, for example reversing 10 years in one year.

Well, that's an interesting guess, but in Ra's view, as 4D settles in, for some period of time 3D bodies will not be viable, and death will be a necessary means of transition.

63.20 Questioner: OK. Now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

  

[Anders]

As an example to illustrate my idea, can a person who is say 90 years old enter fourth density without having to die first? My idea is that yes, that's possible. If the shift into fourth density happens suddenly, then the body of the 90 year old person will still look the same and then gradually start reverse in aging. And the reverse of the effects of aging I predict will happen much quicker than the process of aging in third density, for example reversing 10 years in one year.

Well, that's an interesting guess, but in Ra's view, as 4D settles in, for some period of time 3D bodies will not be viable, and death will be a necessary means of transition.

63.20 Questioner: OK. Now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

It says in the Bible that the body of flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That's similar to how a third density body cannot survive in fourth density form. Is then reincarnation necessary in order to move into fourth density? My guess is that it's actually a more natural process to transform the body (like spiritual alchemy) from third to fourth density while still being alive, because in fourth density we remember our past life, and if we are reincarnated as a baby then it seems to me that remembering the past life will be more complicated than shifting the body directly from third to fourth density. So I interpret going through death as also meaning death of the third density body of flesh when it's transformed into a fourth density body.

[Anders]

I have an idea that the past is real, yet that all the past is compressed into the eternal now. This is a radical perspective compared to the usual mainstream view, for it means that there is no past outside the now! So nobody has actually ever died, and that's probably why Ra calls our experienced reality an illusion. I think our reality is the real reality but that the belief in a past separate from the now is an illusion.

"Questioner: Thank you very much. In previous material, before we communicated with you, it was stated by the Confederation that there is actually no past or future… all is present. Would this be a good analogy?

Ra: I am Ra. There is past, present, and future in third density. In an overview such as an entity may have, removed from the space/time continuum, it may be seen that in the cycle of completion there exists only the present. We, ourselves, seek to learn this understanding. At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all." - Law of One 16.22

And without a past separate from the now, past death, then, truly is an illusion.

[Ymarsakar]

"It says in the Bible that the body of flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That's similar to how a third density body cannot survive in fourth density form. Is then reincarnation necessary in order to move into fourth density?"

The body as Saul thought of it, was like a piece of clothing. You can put it on and take it off. Or get in and out of it, like a vehicle. So the Body of Glory Saul/Paul was talking about was likely a 4th or 5th density body. A green or blue ray existence.

And the body of flesh or the natural man would be the Orion/Draconian genetics vs the Divine DNA (Junk DNA as it is called by humans), i.e. 3rd density or yellow ray body.

[Anders]

"It says in the Bible that the body of flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That's similar to how a third density body cannot survive in fourth density form. Is then reincarnation necessary in order to move into fourth density?"

The body as Saul thought of it, was like a piece of clothing. You can put it on and take it off. Or get in and out of it, like a vehicle. So the Body of Glory Saul/Paul was talking about was likely a 4th or 5th density body. A green or blue ray existence.

And the body of flesh or the natural man would be the Orion/Draconian genetics vs the Divine DNA (Junk DNA as it is called by humans), i.e. 3rd density or yellow ray body.

And also Jesus, after his resurrection, teleported into his disciples' house and said to Thomas "put your finger here" to show him that Jesus' resurrection body was solid and had material reality.

"A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." - John 20:26-27

[Ymarsakar]

The "glory" stuff Saul talked about is physical, but not the same type as flesh and blood carbon. Likely crystaline or silicon.

[Patrick]

Anders, I don't know about you, but for me it's not a problem to die in 3d.

There is no need to fear this.

Our bodies are just physical vehicles. It's like getting out of a car. We are not afraid of getting out of cars. So you get out of your 3D car and all around the car is time/space. Then you move into another car, but this one is better in every way (a 4D car).

[Anders]

Anders, I don't know about you, but for me it's not a problem to die in 3d.

There is no need to fear this.

Our bodies are just physical vehicles. It's like getting out of a car. We are not afraid of getting out of cars. So you get out of your 3D car and all around the car is time/space. Then you move into another car, but this one is better in every way (a 4D car).

If growing old, getting sick and then die is the best infinite intelligence can do I think that sucks. I believe reality can do much better than that.

[Patrick]

If growing old, getting sick and then die is the best infinite intelligence can do I think that sucks. I believe reality can do much better than that.

For those experiencing this, there is a value and a meaning to it. For others, they might exit this incarnation quite suddenly.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0316.aspx

...The suffering, the questioning, the doubting, the pain, and the suffering and agony of all that you experience is for one thing: to hollow you and to focus that emptiness so that it is ready to receive. For those upon the service-to-others path, those to whom we wish to speak, what is being received is infinite love and as it flows through you into a channel that you have cleared it radiates into all of your Earth world. It is for this that you came...

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Excellent quote from Q'uo Patrick. Thanks for sharing it. I appreciated it as it applies to a current situation of my own.

Anders, everything will die in 3rd density. Your cells die and new ones are "born" everyday.
This is a natural process in Creation. Death and rebirth both containing the same power, both coming from the same place of power just at opposite poles; like positive and negative in electricity. There is no fear found in the positive poles like the should be no fear found in the negative pole. As one without the other there would be no creation.

These lovely Biblical quotes must be compared with other volumes of ancient texts to get the truer interpretations correct. The Kingdom of Heaven is found within but before we can know it, we must allow the eogocentric self to die. The Kingdom that is spoken of here is not a literal place.
In some instances the Kingdom can also be referring to Malkuth.

I have said before and will say it here again, the Bible is wildly misinterpreted and much of it's meaning has been lost due to the literal teachings by some religions. I love this Holy book when it is placed into context. I am not saying you have misinterpreted the Bible but maybe another fresh look could be taken to gleen information from this book? Many of these passages from the Bible are not meant in a literal way.

[Anders]

Anders, everything will die in 3rd density. Your cells die and new ones are "born" everyday.
This is a natural process in Creation. Death and rebirth both containing the same power, both coming from the same place of power just at opposite poles; like positive and negative in electricity. There is no fear found in the positive poles like the should be no fear found in the negative pole. As one without the other there would be no creation.

These lovely Biblical quotes must be compared with other volumes of ancient texts to get the truer interpretations correct. The Kingdom of Heaven is found within but before we can know it, we must allow the eogocentric self to die. The Kingdom that is spoken of here is not a literal place.
In some instances the Kingdom can also be referring to Malkuth.

I have said before and will say it here again, the Bible is wildly misinterpreted and much of it's meaning has been lost due to the literal teachings by some religions. I love this Holy book when it is placed into context. I am not saying you have misinterpreted the Bible but maybe another fresh look could be taken to gleen information from this book? Many of these passages from the Bible are not meant in a literal way.

Yes, the Bible uses a lot of metaphors I think. For example even the story about Jesus returning after resurrection may be a metaphor rather than a historical fact, but I believe it points to truth. And everything is a natural process, yet third density is a limited stage of evolution. And I include death in that limitation. And my question is whether one must die in order to enter fourth density or if it can be done within one's current lifetime. Sure, it's possible that physical death is inevitable in third density and that one must reincarnate in order to enter fourth density. Still, I'm exploring the possibility to enter fourth density within this lifetime, and I want to it in a grateful way even if I'm wrong. I'm aware of death being a totally integrated part of third density, so much so that I suspect that the Law of One describes death even in higher densities because many people would be scared of the idea of no death.

[Anders]

Why the need to speculate about conquering death? My answer is that I'm uncertain about death! So it would be hypocritical for me to just adopt a view of inevitable death. I would feel insincere.

At the same time I want my idea to be consistent with the Law of One and even with other spiritual texts. Because I have come to feel that they contain truth and that there is a common spiritual picture that can be found among all spiritual teachings and religions.

And like many spiritual texts, the Law of One can be interpreted is different ways. For example, contrary to many people probably I take the Law of Confusion to literally mean that, haha. So for example free will, the first principle of the Law of Confusion, is to me an illusion but it's very important that the illusion remains intact until the ego is ripe for being transcended. And in this way I make the Law of One compatible with the nonduality teachings. The same with "necessity to die in third density" as I mentioned earlier, that in Law of Confusion terms my interpretation is that if we remain in third density the body will die, not that we must reincarnate.

[Ymarsakar]

I feel you are on the right path. The answers will come from inside not outside.

As for yeshua aka jesus, a near death experi3nce is what people call it in modern day.

[Anders]

As for yeshua aka jesus, a near death experi3nce is what people call it in modern day.

Early in the Law of One they describe how during a session they had the Bible opened to John 1. That's an amazing chapter.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." - John 1:1-3

Ra talks about how our planet is a logos, and our galaxy a larger logos and so on. The Word can be seen as the total logos! And Christ is the Word made manifest, hence he said something like: "Truly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I am." Very nondual, and Christ is God's "only begotten son" since there is only one manifestation of the Word.

[Sacred Fool]

If growing old, getting sick and then die is the best infinite intelligence can do I think that sucks. I believe reality can do much better than that.

You might have a point there.  But on the other hand, isn't Intelligent Infinity more real than reality?

One way of looking at it is that 3D is much shorter than the other densities, and at the same time it is perhaps the roughest and most challenging to endure, especially on a planet like this one.  So, in that sense, moving through it relatively quickly might be a useful plan in that we sooner reach another, more accommodating classroom for learning.

This brings to mind an inspiring and optimistic Russian observation: Life is hard, but fortunately, also short.  
  

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Why the need to speculate about conquering death? My answer is that I'm uncertain about death! So it would be hypocritical for me to just adopt a view of inevitable death. I would feel insincere.

At the same time I want my idea to be consistent with the Law of One and even with other spiritual texts. Because I have come to feel that they contain truth and that there is a common spiritual picture that can be found among all spiritual teachings and religions.

And like many spiritual texts, the Law of One can be interpreted is different ways. For example, contrary to many people probably I take the Law of Confusion to literally mean that, haha. So for example free will, the first principle of the Law of Confusion, is to me an illusion but it's very important that the illusion remains intact until the ego is ripe for being transcended. And in this way I make the Law of One compatible with the nonduality teachings. The same with "necessity to die in third density" as I mentioned earlier, that in Law of Confusion terms my interpretation is that if we remain in third density the body will die, not that we must reincarnate.

I'm with Ymar. I think you are onto something and I believe when we discover the Ra Material it literally opens up within us and makes things not previously found, found. It seemingly explodes within us a life we had previously forgotten.
This is what I can offer as I do not have much to offer except for this...read the Ra Material in it's entirety, ask questions along the way, do tiny meditations on the passages not well understood, don't eat the elephant in one bite, allow the Material to ruminate and then, because of all these things, this will "lead you" to the proper texts, possible teachers or fellow seekers to team up with. Just allow things to unfold as slow as it wishes while you absorb your new information.
I hope that we all can provide help to you. Things can get a little messy in here at times but keep in mind that we are all people, human beings that are still learning and still processing just like yourself. It's good to meet you Anders.

[Anders]

It can be useful to contrast it with another channeled work called A Course in Miracles:

"M-27.1. Death is the central dream from which all illusions stem. 2 Is it not madness to think of life as being born, aging, losing vitality, and dying in the end? 3 We have asked this question before, but now we need to consider it more carefully. 4 It is the one fixed, unchangeable belief of the world that all things in it are born only to die. 5 This is regarded as "the way of nature," not to be raised to question, but to be accepted as the "natural" law of life. 6 The cyclical, the changing and unsure; the undependable and the unsteady, waxing and waning in a certain way upon a certain path,--all this is taken as the Will of God. 7 And no one asks if a benign Creator could will this.

M-27.2. In this perception of the universe as God created it, it would be impossible to think of Him as loving. 2 For who has decreed that all things pass away, ending in dust and disappointment and despair, can but be feared. 3 He holds your little life in his hand but by a thread, ready to break it off without regret or care, perhaps today. 4 Or if he waits, yet is the ending certain. 5 Who loves such a god knows not of love, because he has denied that life is real. 6 Death has become life's symbol. 7 His world is now a battleground, where contradiction reigns and opposites make endless war. 8 Where there is death is peace impossible.

M-27.3. Death is the symbol of the fear of God. 2 His Love is blotted out in the idea, which holds it from awareness like a shield held up to obscure the sun. 3 The grimness of the symbol is enough to show it cannot coexist with God. 4 It holds an image of the Son of God in which he is "laid to rest" in devastation's arms, where worms wait to greet him and to last a little while by his destruction. 5 Yet the worms as well are doomed to be destroyed as certainly. 6 And so do all things live because of death. 7 Devouring is nature's "law of life." 8 God is insane, and fear alone is real.

M-27.4. The curious belief that there is part of dying things that may go on apart from what will die, does not proclaim a loving God nor re-establish any grounds for trust. 2 If death is real for anything, there is no life. 3 Death denies life. 4 But if there is reality in life, death is denied. 5 No compromise in this is possible. 6 There is either a god of fear or One of Love. 7 The world attempts a thousand compromises, and will attempt a thousand more. 8 Not one can be acceptable to God's teachers, because not one could be acceptable to God. 9 He did not make death because He did not make fear. 10 Both are equally meaningless to Him." - A Course in Miracles – Manual for Teachers – 27. What Is Death

[Ymarsakar]

Acim is sananda s book. Basically channeled via yeshua

Ohr, there are no cat girls here non human style kemono mimi?

Zan nen

[Anders]

I like how radical ACIM's message about death is. No beating around the bush. ACIM absolutely bashes death. I think death has a purpose though, and it's just that ACIM is coming from a higher density perspective than third density, our current fallen world, the world of the separate ego.

It's tricky to try to unify all kinds of different spiritual teachings, but I believe it can be done. The truth is unshakeable, and remains unchanged regardless of our own beliefs. I can see that ACIM has a point. If I believe that Gaia will kill me then I consciously and/or subconsciously will have fear and anger in me.

[Doomchief]

A few thoughts to ponder.
Presumably at this here and now we are a part of the One consciousness. I which there's the archetypical mind. This tool is a part of the experience in the third density and chances are it can be used in the fourth density as well.
One of the archetypes is the Transformation of the body (Death or The Reaper). By that I think it is safe to assume that death is a part of fourth density experience.

The fourth density is already here for quite some space/time if you wish to live in it. People incarnated at this moment on planet Earth may have transitional bodies (yellow and green activated). Given that you may not wait until the death of you current physical vehicle to experience lessons of love and understanding. Though being an early fourth density at present and having quite a bit of third density population, at the surface it may look familiar. But if you vibrate with love and compassion - the possibility to live the new life in the Creation of the Father rather than in the World of Men is ever present.
Just as the social memory complex already exists with the potential for communication (for the unconscious mind).
We're limited only by our desire. But to know this true desire is a quest.

[Anders]

One of the archetypes is the Transformation of the body (Death or The Reaper). By that I think it is safe to assume that death is a part of fourth density experience.

Death in fourth density makes even less sense to me than in third density. I think Ra even talks about necessity for death in fifth density? How? By aging? Does sound dubious to me.

My guess is that the Law of One is targeting a more mainstream audience than A Course in Miracles, hence the use of Law of Confusion language. The Bible targets an even more mainstream population and needs to used an even heavier layer of confusion. ACIM targets more hardcore spiritual nonduality seekers and can sometimes be more raw in its language.

[Anders]

Yikes, maybe death literally is an illusion. And that Jesus actually meant by letting the dead bury the dead that our current third density world is a false reality.

Even the more extreme New Age ascension teachings I have seen start with the assumption that our current reality is real and that ascension is necessary in order to transcend death. Ra calls even higher densities levels of illusion but that could be a Law of Confusion explanation to more gently lead us to realize that we are now living in kind of a Plato's cave.

In short, my new idea is that third density is an illusion and that the higher densities are the actual reality. And it's like in the movie A Beautiful Mind where [spoiler alert] the agents in the beginning of the movie interacted with the main character and later the agents start to look more and more cartoonish until it's revealed that the agents are just illusions in the main character's mind.

[Anders]

The idea of a harvest resonates with me. I see a purpose of third density development, which is to make us unique individuals and to create a unique human civilization. If higher density beings would have given us too much information at the dawn of our human history we would just have become a clone/copy of already existing civilizations. Not good.

So from the really big perspective it's the uniqueness created by the illusion of separation and the struggle to return to oneness that is the valuable result that needs to be preserved during a harvest. I did a quick search and found that Ra starts to talk about harvest already in the first session! I plan to listen to the Ra material with focus on the teachings about harvest. And also to check what Ra says about the need for reincarnation.

[Anders]

Aha! Ra said in Session 1: "We do not concern ourselves with the conditions which bring about harvest." I want to document my findings here to learn/teach. Ra is not concerned about the conditions which bring about harvest because that's a part of the uniqueness of our civilization which relates to the preservation of free will. Preserving free will is analogous to preserving and maintaining uniqueness.

This if fun, I will listen to some more of the Ra material to see if I can get further ideas about the harvest and reincarnation.