Islam and Ra

[Prometheus]

Ill try to finish on a high note:
I hope the "Arab Spring" will slowly produce a more progressive form of Islam, balancing between the right things and the things that should be left in the past.
The people will need time, in Egypt for example: The Muslim brotherhood has been oppressed for decades, so its no wonder they won the election. The case is similar in many Arabic countries.
I think the people need time to go through the religious state phase.
I hope they realize this is their chance to show the world Islam isn't the satanic/barbaric religion some anti islamic westerns try to portray it as, but a beautiful one from which the whole world can learn a thing or two.

I realize this post is from 2012, but when I saw this part of OP's post I almost spit out my coffee laughing.

First of all, although the "arab spring" as it was called could have possibly been a force for good the ugly reality is that it was hijacked by western intelligence services and perverted for purposes of regime change and proxy wars.

The amount of death, murder, and killing that came out of it, especially in Iraq, Libya, and Syria, is incalculable. CIA-backed jihadists were empowered to go on a killing spree in all 3 of these countries, while of course being supported in their efforts from behind the scenes by the CIA. The United States took the most radical fanatics and armed them to the teeth with billions of $$$ in military grade equipment and sent them off to kill as many innocent people as they could in all 3 countries I just mentioned, for purposes of controlling & dominating the middle east in general. As if that weren't bad enough, the US ended up supporting the jihadists in Libya with airstrikes, with US pilots literally acting as air support for their jihadist proxies on the ground. Libya was totally destroyed and tens of thousands were killed. Don't even get me started on Syria & Iraq, because I could write a book on the subject.

Meanwhile, in other countries which were already allied with the US/Israel, and where regime change was not desirable (because these regimes were already firmly in the pocket of Uncle Sam), and where there was an attempted "arab spring", the protesters there were brutally & violently massacred by their local governments with the full backing of the US/Israel with absolutely no media coverage whatsoever. For example, Bahrain, where the government massacred thousands with the full blessing of US intelligence, and not a peep from the media about it either.

As for the muslim brotherhood, they too are very self-serving radicals with an agenda of their own. There is a reason they ended up losing power in Egypt after taking it. Primarily because they didn't actually have nearly as much support in Egypt as they claimed, but were rather, once again, being propped up by the US.

I hate to bring geopolitics into this discussion, but what I'm saying is true. We all like to look at things romantically from within the context of the Ra material. Unfortunately, reality sometimes comes along and smacks you in the face..

[Patrick]

... Unfortunately, reality sometimes comes along and smacks you in the face..

Then we present the other cheek ?

[jafar]

Ill try to finish on a high note:
I hope the "Arab Spring" will slowly produce a more progressive form of Islam, balancing between the right things and the things that should be left in the past.
The people will need time, in Egypt for example: The Muslim brotherhood has been oppressed for decades, so its no wonder they won the election. The case is similar in many Arabic countries.
I think the people need time to go through the religious state phase.
I hope they realize this is their chance to show the world Islam isn't the satanic/barbaric religion some anti islamic westerns try to portray it as, but a beautiful one from which the whole world can learn a thing or two.

I realize this post is from 2012, but when I saw this part of OP's post I almost spit out my coffee laughing.

Yeah I think the OP's is too naive and mixing up middle east politics, arabs and Islam.

There are hundreds of factions within the group called Islam.
Not all Arabs identifying themselves with Islam identity.
Not all Middle Easterners identifying themselves as Arabs.

When there's a conflict between A vs B, people tend to see A as the 'good' guys and B as the 'bad' guys or vice versa.
My observation shows otherwise, when there's a conflict between A vs B, more often both A and B are the 'bad' guys.
By 'bad' guys here mean both group have their own self-centered objective in mind, which can only be achieved when their enemies / opposition are beaten or conquered.

The Muslim Brotherhood, a.k.a "Ikhwanul Muslimin" is a right wing political group it has many enemies both within Egypt and also in the region. In the region their enemies are: The Zionists (Israel), The Wahhabis (Saudi Arabia), The Shiites and The Arab Nationalist groups.

It was actually born as an opposition to the conception of "Pan Arabism" prevalent in early 20th century, through a conception of "Pan Islamism". Within Egypt their enemies are: The Military, The Egyptian Nationalist, The Pan Arabism (Albeit very few people left in this group) and The Copts. As an example, harassments to the Coptic churches increases when they're in power, as the Copts do not subscribe to the idea of "Pan Islamism". The MB / IM is basically yet another group who uses religion to grab power in politics.

But wait, isn't The Wahabbis (Saudi Arabia) also an Islamic political group?
Well yes... but Pan Islamism doesn't fit to the agenda of The Saud family, as Pan Islamism mean that their kingdom will be abolished. As thus The Saud and it's supporters (The Wahabis) see MB/IM as a threat thus declare them as "terrorist organization".

And how about Iran and The Shiites? Aren't they Islam too? Well "Pan Islamism" as envisioned by MB/IM actually mean "Pan Sunniism" which of course exclude the "Non Sunnis" such as The Shiites as they're considered to be "Non Muslim" an "Infidel" a "Kuffar" by the Sunnis.

I better stop here, as telling the story about conflict in middle east will need a dedicated forum on it's own due to it long history of animosity and complexity.

Basically every group hates every other group in middle east.
I guess it has been as such since at least 3000 years ago.
Yet it offer many rich case studies for those who want to study STS path or group.

[Ymarsakar]

There's something seriously wrong with the black cube thing at Mecca or Medina.

[sillypumpkins]

well.... today I learned about about the islamic concept Tawhid "holds that God as per Islam is One and Single"

[flow]

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._1217.aspx

this session covers Koran and Islam a little bit. in short, Q'uo says Mohammed was a 6-density positive wanderer, but his message - surprise, surprise - was corrupted by sts influence.

[Ymarsakar]

Yes, Mohammed was a legit "prophet" (psychic channeler), but his uncle's clan took over. The Sunni line. They used the Koran and redid the teachings in the Suras, to preach a path of war and conquership. They expanded the clan's territory over Persia, Arabia, and North Africa.

Basically Temujin's path.

[zedro]

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._1217.aspx

this session covers Koran and Islam a little bit. in short, Q'uo says Mohammed was a 6-density positive wanderer, but his message - surprise, surprise - was corrupted by sts influence.

That was the balancing act at the time, and is why 'wandering' with effect comes at a price. I'm always curious if those wanderers knew what consequences would be sowed, and if it was part of a greater plan (that they were aware of), or if this was truly a spiritual war at their experience level, a card game where one side gets to lay down a power card and the other gets to respond accordingly.

[Ymarsakar]

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._1217.aspx

this session covers Koran and Islam a little bit. in short, Q'uo says Mohammed was a 6-density positive wanderer, but his message - surprise, surprise - was corrupted by sts influence.

That was the balancing act at the time, and is why 'wandering' with effect comes at a price. I'm always curious if those wanderers knew what consequences would be sowed, and if it was part of a greater plan (that they were aware of), or if this was truly a spiritual war at their experience level, a card game where one side gets to lay down a power card and the other gets to respond accordingly.

The White side initiates a move, and the black yin side has to respond by hijacking/converting the piece to black.

This however, as in Go, creates a situation where entire regions of black pieces can be flipped. White is one step ahead because they can create the initiative, they can create out of the ether. Black can respond, hijack it, and repurpose it.

The only density that the lowest dark cannot see past into, is the 7th density or late 6th density. The very fact that the most powerful dark is capped at 6th density, is a major clue. All one has to do is to "trump" it. Thus it is possible that the 7th density can see even farther into the future than the 6th density can. By cheating. It is easy to see the future... when they make it happen.

[zedro]

Yes but were these early 6th density (and earlier) wanderers just taking a gamble with their teachers just nodding knowing full well the game they were unleashing? Could they be that naive in their learning in service, or was it a long game knowing short term loss (tragedy) was worth the final power move into the end zone? Guess we'll find out when the curtain is pulled.

[jafar]

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._1217.aspx

this session covers Koran and Islam a little bit. in short, Q'uo says Mohammed was a 6-density positive wanderer, but his message - surprise, surprise - was corrupted by sts influence.

Not a surprise isn't it?
Is it 'corrupted' or is it 'completed' by sts influence?
As the 'message' will be 'missing' without the other part?

Quo uses the word "loyal opposition" for this which is for me quite amusing.
With the contrast in place, one can learn the 'thing' through differentiating it with the 'other thing'.

What's also interesting is that Quo described Mr Gabriel and Mr Mohammed are one of the 'same kind'.
Where the later played the role of being 'incarnated' into 3rd density being.

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. We will attempt to respond. The entity, Gabriel, was one of a number of entities that assisted in this transmission, being the focus of the effort, was one which worked with the entity known as Mohammed as this entity had dedicated its life purpose previous to the incarnation to working with those of its own kind, shall we say. Thus, the effort was put forth by those of the density of love and light in balance, that being six, working with those of the same vibratory level who had taken incarnation for the purpose of such a mission.

P: When you say those of the same vibratory level do you mean then that Mohammed was a sixth-density entity who incarnated as a third-density entity?

I am Q’uo, and this is correct, my sister.

Is there a further query?

[Ymarsakar]

Jafar, it is like multi boxing. 2 computers running 4 different mmo accounts all raiding together, run by one person.

[Ymarsakar]

Yes but were these early 6th density (and earlier) wanderers just taking a gamble with their teachers just nodding knowing full well the game they were unleashing? Could they be that naive in their learning in service, or was it a long game knowing short term loss (tragedy) was worth the final power move into the end zone? Guess we'll find out when the curtain is pulled.

Iamraw kind of gave the game away when they said that the Law of One does not favor the dark or the light. Essentially balanced mid or late 6th density, arch angel class type 3 civs...

They are like a dungeon master. Playing both sides at once. To make it more interesting a game.

[Raukura Waihaha]

... Unfortunately, reality sometimes comes along and smacks you in the face..

Then we present the other cheek ?

I understand the intent but the concept is born in Martyrdom, IMO.
It seems to be love at the cost of wisdom.
If someone is running at you with a chainsaw, wisdom would dictate removing yourself from their vicinity.
I believe Jesus was an example of unconditional love, not wisdom.

If we look at Muhammad we can see that he wasn't campaigning for the "turn the other cheek" philosophy.
He took over with an army and this is someone spoken of as "spreading more intelligible distortion of the Law of One".
To me it means that it was in a form that people of that time, could comprehend. It doesn't mean it was perfect or even STO. It means people could grasp the Law of One better.
We all know the Law of One applies to both STO and STS...I feel it's likely, given the context of Muhammad's methods of implementation, that there was mixed STS and STO information, like most religion.

[zedro]

Yes but were these early 6th density (and earlier) wanderers just taking a gamble with their teachers just nodding knowing full well the game they were unleashing? Could they be that naive in their learning in service, or was it a long game knowing short term loss (tragedy) was worth the final power move into the end zone? Guess we'll find out when the curtain is pulled.

Iamraw kind of gave the game away when they said that the Law of One does not favor the dark or the light. Essentially balanced mid or late 6th density, arch angel class type 3 civs...

They are like a dungeon master. Playing both sides at once. To make it more interesting a game.

True in the 'ultimate' long run certainly, but positive 4d planet evolution is not a garantie, and going back to pre-LoO days of higher density prophet wanderers and Ra in Egypt times, I wonder if that outcome was known yet, or if it was a necessary long term strategy, or a gamble that could have gone either way. I really wish Don asked, but I have a feeling the answer may not have been given. The lack of questions surrounding Jesus was frustrating.

[Patrick]

... Unfortunately, reality sometimes comes along and smacks you in the face..

Then we present the other cheek ?

I understand the intent but the concept is born in Martyrdom, IMO.
It seems to be love at the cost of wisdom.
If someone is running at you with a chainsaw, wisdom would dictate removing yourself from their vicinity.
I believe Jesus was an example of unconditional love, not wisdom.

If we look at Muhammad we can see that he wasn't campaigning for the "turn the other cheek" philosophy.
He took over with an army and this is someone spoken of as "spreading more intelligible distortion of the Law of One".
To me it means that it was in a form that people of that time, could comprehend. It doesn't mean it was perfect or even STO. It means people could grasp the Law of One better.
We all know the Law of One applies to both STO and STS...I feel it's likely, given the context of Muhammad's methods of implementation, that there was mixed STS and STO information,  like most religion.

All good points.

In this particular instance, which Prometheus was talking about, it is life or reality that smacks you.  It's your catalysts that smacks you.  So then it's presenting the other cheek to fate. But even that could be an unbalanced action depending on your intent.

Questioner: I will attempt to make an analogy. If an animal, shall I say a bull in a pen, attacks you because you have wandered into his pen, you get out of his way rapidly but you do not blame him. Or, you do not have much of an emotional response other than the fear response that he might damage you. However, if you encounter another self in his territory and he attacks you, your response may be more of an emotional nature creating physical bodily responses. Am I correct in assuming that when your response to the animal and to the other-self seeing both as the Creator and loving both and understanding their action in attacking you is the action of their free will then you have balanced yourself correctly in this area? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, the balanced entity will see in the seeming attack of an other-self the causes of this action which are, in most cases, of a more complex nature than the cause of the attack of the second-density bull as was your example. Thus this balanced entity would be open to many more opportunities for service to a third-density other-self.

So depending on what life throws at you, presenting the other cheek could be a reasonable response. But if the catalyst is a bull chasing you, a wiser action could be of great benefit.

[Ymarsakar]

I read that as learning how to tame wild 3rd density other selves.

[jafar]

So depending on what life throws at you, presenting the other cheek could be a reasonable response. But if the catalyst is a bull chasing you, a wiser action could be of great benefit.

Yes.. either flee, which supposedly what Mohammed and friends have done by migrating.

And even after fleeing the bull keep chasing you, thus you have no other choice now but to try disabling the raging bull, which supposedly what Mohammed and friends also have done.

After the bull has been disabled and pacified an STO will not seek to drive the bulls into extinction but try to sympathize and understand the perspective of the bull, why is he raging? why is he chasing?
And try to solve the 'problem' as seen by the bull and not keeping any hatred and vengeful intention towards the bull, regardless of the damage that the bull had done.
Which perhaps what Mohammed and friends also have done as they apparently have reached a kind of agreement with the 'chaser' and include the once 'chaser / attacker' into their own group.
But this action can be seen as 'weakness' or 'exploit' from STS perspective.

Thus unlike fairy tale where the story ends with 'and they lived happily ever after', the dynamic push and pull between STS & STO in close interaction with each others resulted in the next following chapters where the STS managed to took the dominant role and formalized the 'control mechanism' in a form of 'yet another organized religion'. Following the example of neighboring Byzantium Roman Empire and Persian Empire.

It doesn't mean that the STO's ceased to exist, it just their presence are not well recorded and easy to detect as the one who wrote history are usually those who has control over resources and media (ie: Scrolls/Stone Tablet) . That is a consistent pattern that still ring true even up until today.

[Patrick]

I think it is important to remember that STS could not make such inroads so easily without a good deal of the population being seduced by their concepts.

Even nowadays we can see all the negative aspects that people accepts as a given of human nature. All the while their intuition telling them there is something "wrong" in that picture.

[jafar]

I think it is important to remember that STS could not make such inroads so easily without a good deal of the population being seduced by their concepts.

Even nowadays we can see all the negative aspects that people accepts as a given of human nature. All the while their intuition telling them there is something "wrong" in that picture.

Why are they behaving as such?
It's because they're identifying themselves with things that they're not.

Something is true just because my holy book said so, my priest / imam said so, my prophet said so, my god said so, my alien said so, my channeler said so, my political figure said so, this is also known as herd mentality.

There is no fast solution to this, yet the lasting solution will be "Individual Empowerment".
You are not your religion, you are not your holy book, your are not your Imam / Priest, you are not your church, mosque, temple, alien, chaneler, political figure etc..

Make them 'experience things' which can lead them to the path of finding who they really are.
Again telling them directly 'what is true' will not help on 'individual empowerment' as it will only cause them to adopt yet the same attitude of 'something is true because you said so'. Don't give the answer, let them seek the answer themselves, show them only the path. Then they can answer confidently that "This is true because I know it myself, I experienced it myself, I seek it myself, I found the answer myself".

[Ymarsakar]

Or maybe if enough hammers drop on them, they can figure out that the sky is falling.

[Patrick]

Oh I agree with you Jafar.

Yet why so many people believe it's a good idea to have poverty for example? When the idea is shared that poverty does not need to exist, too many people reacts in a way that rejects those ideas and prefers to keep the structures in place that enables poverty to endure.

It's not even a question of believing that anything could fix poverty, but believing that the attempt should be made or not. When given the choice to try something that could eradicate poverty, they prefer to vote for what will maintain poverty.

These kind of choices that we make empowers STS to provide even more of their teachings based on the Law of Squares. We are doing this to ourselves.

BUT it is starting to change now. It's subtle, but it's moving.

[jafar]

Yet why so many people believe it's a good idea to have poverty for example? When the idea is shared that poverty does not need to exist, too many people reacts in a way that rejects those ideas and prefers to keep the structures in place that enables poverty to endure.

It's not even a question of believing that anything could fix poverty, but believing that the attempt should be made or not. When given the choice to try something that could eradicate poverty, they prefer to vote for what will maintain poverty.


These kind of choices that we make empowers STS to provide even more of their teachings based on the Law of Squares. We are doing this to ourselves.

Poverty is a different issue, there are:
A. people who choose to be in poverty / who choose he/she actually lacks nothing.
B. people who feel trapped in poverty / who feel he/she always lacking.
C. people who has the need to feel superior in wealth compared to other people.

People who are in B and C is actually two sides of the same coin.
The examples on the edge of each polarity might be:
-People who do not feel enough even though he has million dollars in assets might fell into B and/or C.
-People who feel enough even though he earn $0 month fell into A.

Example of people in A might be: Jesus, Siddharta, Jon Jandai
Jon Jandai is a good example of people who initially in B and then come into realization and turn towards A.

For people in B and C no matter how much that they earn they will always wanted more, because they always feel lacking. Usually it's more of relatively lacking (compared to other people).

Choose Happiness, Gelong Thubten
https://youtu.be/b0wg1Pv0pfM

[Dtris]

Oh I agree with you Jafar.

Yet why so many people believe it's a good idea to have poverty for example? When the idea is shared that poverty does not need to exist, too many people reacts in a way that rejects those ideas and prefers to keep the structures in place that enables poverty to endure.

It's not even a question of believing that anything could fix poverty, but believing that the attempt should be made or not. When given the choice to try something that could eradicate poverty, they prefer to vote for what will maintain poverty.

These kind of choices that we make empowers STS to provide even more of their teachings based on the Law of Squares. We are doing this to ourselves.

BUT it is starting to change now. It's subtle, but it's moving.

Why do you think that poverty is something that needs to be solved? And what makes you so arrogant to think that it would be solved if people "just listened".

"It is easier for a camel to walk thru the eye of the needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

Many children in first world countries would gladly trade all their wealth and toys for the family to still be intact.

While wealth can free you from struggling to survive, that doesn't help people who have incarnated to learn lessons about survival. We choose the manner and environment and major life events before incarnation, if this experience was no longer desired on earth, it would already be solved.

[Patrick]

Poverty is a different issue, there are:
A. people who choose to be in poverty / who choose he/she actually lacks nothing.
B. people who feel trapped in poverty / who feel he/she always lacking.
C. people who has the need to feel superior in wealth compared to other people.
...

I would say those in A are not poor, B is poverty and C is greed. I disagree that B and C are the same. I was poor years ago yet at some point I came to have enough and became satisfied with my level of abundance. We each have a different balance of red-ray that we consider to be balanced for ourselves.

What we can solve now in our current post-scarcity society is B. What bugles my mind is not that STS wants the status-quo, it's the number of people that let themselves fall for C greed (based on STS teachings). So in that sense we are not really victims, those falling for greed in one incarnation, probably suffers poverty in the next and on it goes.

But at the end of the day, it's still on us. People can feel the truth of this in their heart and if they chose greed nonetheless well that just opens the door even more for STS to come teach and we end up with how society was in the not too distant past. It's getting better now, but it could go much faster.

[Patrick]

Why do you think that poverty is something that needs to be solved?...

Because they are crying for help. Poverty is not a lack of wealth. It is an imbalance in red-ray. It is a perceived lack as well as a real lack.

If you cannot sleep because you are too cold. You need a blanket. It would be very surprising that you would manage to change your perception enough to be ok with that situation. It's not impossible, but it is unlikely. It is more likely that you will want a blanket until you get one.

There is a big perception component to poverty. But I think we can work on both aspects: the perception of lack AND the proper distribution of resources too.

...And what makes you so arrogant to think that it would be solved if people "just listened"...

When a politician comes along and proposes real solutions for this, they are not elected and are barely taken seriously. Yet voting for these people would change our world for the better. In order for this to happen, people just needs to listen to their heart. The answers are there. It's not arrogance from my point of view, it's just compassionate-wisdom.

...
"It is easier for a camel to walk thru the eye of the needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."
...

This talks of greed which is not the same type of imbalance. Greed is not red-ray imbalance. It's a blockage in orange and yellow.

...
Many children in first world countries would gladly trade all their wealth and toys for the family to still be intact.

While wealth can free you from struggling to survive, that doesn't help people who have incarnated to learn lessons about survival. We choose the manner and environment and major life events before incarnation, if this experience was no longer desired on earth, it would already be solved.

You seem to be forgetting that people like me are answering the call from those entities whom are ready to move past those type of lessons.

Or are you proposing that it would be solved magically in an instant as soon as it's no longer needed?

If so then I wouldn't be here talking about it and instead we would be discussing stuff like what is the best way to organize the future internal memory structure of our nascent social memory complex. But we can't skip any steps and we need to address stuff like how to properly distribute resources first.

[Ymarsakar]

"You seem to be forgetting that people like me are answering the call from those entities whom are ready to move past those type of lessons."

What are you doing that answers this call?

[Patrick]

"You seem to be forgetting that people like me are answering the call from those entities whom are ready to move past those type of lessons."

What are you doing that answers this call?

Inspiring people on the concept of money being obsolete and talking about reverse accounting and resource based economics. Among other things.

[meadow-foreigner]

Amusing.

[jafar]

Poverty is a different issue, there are:
A. people who choose to be in poverty / who choose he/she actually lacks nothing.
B. people who feel trapped in poverty / who feel he/she always lacking.
C. people who has the need to feel superior in wealth compared to other people.
...

I would say those in A are not poor, B is poverty and C is greed. I disagree that B and C are the same. I was poor years ago yet at some point I came to have enough and became satisfied with my level of abundance. We each have a different balance of red-ray that we consider to be balanced for ourselves.

What we can solve now in our current post-scarcity society is B. What bugles my mind is not that STS wants the status-quo, it's the number of people that let themselves fall for C greed (based on STS teachings). So in that sense we are not really victims, those falling for greed in one incarnation, probably suffers poverty in the next and on it goes.
But at the end of the day, it's still on us. People can feel the truth of this in their heart and if they chose greed nonetheless well that just opens the door even more for STS to come teach and we end up with how society was in the not too distant past. It's getting better now, but it could go much faster.

Bhutan did proposed a new metrics for 'well being', from GDP/Capita (commonly used today) to something called 'happiness index'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness

And it seems you have different definition for 'poverty', called Red-Ray Balance.

If we put Jon Jandai as case study, his personal story goes something like this.

1. I was living in a village and people told me that I'm poor.
2. In order to become 'not poor' they told me I need to find work in the city to earn some money.
3. I'm working in Bangkok, I earn much money, I can buy many things, but I'm not happy.
4. I decided to return back to the village.
5. In the village I'm happy, I'm living a simple life which does not require many things, I don't earn much money but I'm happy, if people now tell me that I'm poor or in poverty, then so be it. I'm happy and that's what matter.

Jon Jandai: Life is easy. Why do we make it so hard?
https://youtu.be/21j_OCNLuYg

"Poverty" doesn't translate directly to less well-being or less happiness.
Well being and happiness is more of a 'mind set', when one need less it will be easier for one to become happy.
When one need more it will be harder for one to become happy.
Both are choice of life, there's no good and bad, there's only consequences...