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    Bring4th Bring4th Studies Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters Is Giving A Homeless Person $ For Drugs STO?

    Thread: Is Giving A Homeless Person $ For Drugs STO?


    Louisabell (Offline)

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    #31
    12-04-2020, 11:37 PM
    I've kept out of this conversation because I don't see any homeless people in my regular life, so I felt a little ill equipped to comment. (Yes shocking how things like welfare, methadone/safe-injecting clinics, public housing and public healthcare seem to cut down on the homeless population in an area). Although, I mostly exist in the suburbs and we still have a homeless population here in the metropolitan areas.

    My husband recently went to San Fran for work (before pandemic hit) and was mortified at the huge homeless population there. He noted how many of the homeless people seemed very normal, like regular people who had just hit a rough patch in life. It's sad to see that there is not much of a safety net over there, and my heart goes out to those communities. It must be rough, for both those in that position and for those that have to see others there often. 

    Personally, I like to focus my generosity on the organisational level, because the reality is, is that there are people out there that have dedicated their entire lives to learning how to serve these homeless communities the best way possible. They are able to supply the best resources, and true pathways out of certain situations (such as halfway houses, women shelters, permanent soup kitchens, etc). There are whole areas of academia dedicated to providing humanitarian aid for all types of contexts, (portions of the Creator which lovingly preoccupy themselves with this type of valuable service), and it is an honor to be able to support these organisations. I try to do research on which organisations do the best work, in my limited understanding. 

    When it comes to the money system, I also try to be conscientious of being anti-materialistic, frugal and investing my money well, so that in the future, if I am able, I will be able to support these humanitarian organisations in a more significant way. So I think balance can be found there in both giving to other-selves, while also enriching the self for STO reasons. 

    As for personal giving, one-to-one, I think whether one gives or withholds out of love, that it was the right thing to do in that situation. There are no mistakes. 

    Maybe when Jade offered marijuana to a homeless person, she didn't just "hand over drugs". I suspect she also gave the gift of acknowledgement, solidarity, empathy, perhaps even the gift of true healing. And maybe that was exactly what that homeless person needed at the time. Who could dishonor that? 

    And perhaps David, on an organisational level, it is completely inappropriate and I understand that. Yet that doesn't take away from the perfection of a single act of kindness. But I do think David that your comment, while I acknowledge the intention of high impact, should have carried a trigger warning. We cannot know the personal experiences of others, and what you said was pretty heavy. 
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      • Glow
    David_1 (Offline)

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    #32
    12-05-2020, 09:19 AM
       In the US of A there are numerous small political parties, and two major parties.
       Research into the cities that have massive homelessness would reveal that those cities are typically under the political control of the same political party.
       To understand why this is the case, one would need to research the Federal aid allocated for homelessness to learn that such cities receive roughly $40,000 per year per homeless person.
       So, imagine the thinking of a service-to-self politician.  Such a person might reason that if I make sure that the homeless stay homeless, I can use those massive funds to greatly increase what I budget for corruption.  I certainly would not want to spend that money on helping the homeless to change their situation, because then I cut off my Sugar Daddy.

      •
    Glow Away

    Over Caffeinated Wanderer.
    Posts: 2,109
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    #33
    12-05-2020, 02:13 PM
    Louisabell, I had no idea you guys had managed this issue so well. Heart

    I always think of Canada as being pretty good at social support systems but we flounder on this one.
    I know the funds have been allocated, and an attempt to set up structures has been made but a few things are missing or unaddressed.

    Certain support is only available to people with a current mailing address... how is that suppose to help those in dire need? I am sure there is a reason - to avoid people double dipping, and tracking of funds but it is an issue to getting money from institutions to those most in need here.

    Another issue I have heard from talking to people is thievery, and drug activities within shelter systems.
    If you are clean/ or recovering from addiction one is reluctant to be around addicts for obvious reason, and I hear it is common to wake up to your belongings having been lifted by others while you sleep. It is so cold here in winter, I feel for anyone having to make such choices.

    One of my discussions I referenced above where the fellow made as much as I do and is homeless, yet not an addict has made me wonder if a true solution would require some sort of community mentorship program.

    Like big brothers/sisters only for the homeless. The assigned mentor could be the address where funds are distributed, a certain account could be set up to have an over seer to the funds so housing/food is payed for first then an allowance of sorts per 2 week period. Some sort of guidance in building a better life could be done through an organization with those basics in place.

    The discussions I have had made me see not all are addicts or mentally ill but there is a certain type of trauma that leads to poor impulse control(spending) and perhaps an inability to plan for the future. I would assume being homeless would lead to a type of CPTSD. If not a true ptsd then at minimum just staying in a near constant state of flight or flight would definitely inhibit making the best decisions. Solve the very basics maybe further healing and life development could evolve.

    I would love to see how it is done where you are because it seems we are missing something in our social programs here.

    I will keep giving when asked regardless. We are all one, that is inside them what ever is inhabiting Glow, and I sure have needed help, thankfully not that type of help but I sure hope someone would extend their hand in anyway that they could if I was experiencing being out there and found the courage to ask for anything to help in that moment.
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      • Louisabell, Ming the Merciful
    unity100 (Offline)

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    #34
    12-05-2020, 04:22 PM
    Other states - especially 'responsible' conservative ones - in US, literally export their homeless to California:

    Homeless people are offered a one way ticket to California or jail. Or worse, getting their tents confiscated and being pushed out of the city in the winter. Which means death. That takes care of the 'homeless' problem, from the perspective of such 'small government, small spending' administrations.

    We read many cases of such police actions in such states in which homeless are stripped of their belongings in the winter and left to rot outside the city. That this can happen in a developed country, i tell you, is inexplicable from the perspective of someone from another part of the world. Its murder.

    So the choice that the homeless have is to either take the ticket - if that is graciously offered - or go to the only place where the police wouldnt go out of their way to kill them - California.

    Better SF, the most humane city in US, literally.

    Hence SF has a homeless problem. Except, its not SF's homeless problem, its the homeless problem which the 'responsible' states are throwing on the shoulders of others. Because, when you export your homeless, its not your problem anymore now, is it...

    SF is literally the municipal Jesus that is suffering for all the sins of the 'responsible' states.

    ....

    The only solution for CA's problems of this kind is either shutting down the borders and not taking in the problems which it is being exported to by other states (which it legally cant), or bear with it.

    The despicable hypocrisy that persists in such 'responsible', 'small government', 'business friendly' states is really, really revealing of evil, sociopathic minds: Their administrations/politicians export their problems to California, then endlessly lambast California for their problem which they exported to California. Because, after all, how will their voter base know since they do not pay attention and even if they did, they would not want to disturb their world view with having to take responsibility and spend some some money on the problem now, do they...
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      • Glow, Black Dragon
    Aion (Offline)

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    #35
    12-05-2020, 04:48 PM
    This morning a homeless encampment of about 60 people was dismantled and destroyed by the RCMP locally. The residents were given little notice or opportunity to collect their things. Many of them will have to start "from scratch" again. We're heading in to December and the temperatures having dropped especially at night. The friends and family when asked what their loved ones will do or where they can go are greeted with shrugs. The bylaw officer stood by with a smile.

    This is most likely in response to a fire that went through an encampment last week which resulted in the explosion of a couple propane tanks. So likely the city was thinking in terms of prevention. You can therefore see the two sides to a very complex situation.

    Actually a lot of the homeless here were "exported" here from the mainland. During the 2010 Vancouver Olympics they literally sent dozens of homeless people over here to the island to "clean up the streets".
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      • Glow, Ohr Ein Sof
    sillypumpkins Away

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    #36
    12-05-2020, 08:02 PM
    I resonate with Diana's view on the matter. It wasn't always that way for me though.

    Before the pandemic hit, I used to walk to work, which was downtown in my city. My work was on a street that had a lot of homeless folk asking for money. I used to say 'no' to giving out money. Sometimes I would, though. But it would always come down to a judgement on my part, "does this person seem like they're going to spend money on drugs?"

    I didn't like how I went about that. I mean, I am basing my decision based on a narrow-mind and shallow perception of the individual's look/vibe whatever. That didn't feel right to me.

    This was also around the time when I began realizing that I truly don't know what is best for others. Seriously. Like Diana said, if somebody went off to the liquor store to buy some booze with the money I gave them, that is at their discretion, and that's clearly what they "need" right now. It's just..... really gray. If that's what you need to get through the night, man, I can't judge that. I don't know what their story is. I don't know anything.

    So, instead of judging others and basing my money-giving on that, I just give money when I can. It's a gift, once it's left my hands, it's not mine anymore, and they are free to use it however they please. That feels more positively-polarizing to me.

    With that being said, I do like to offer food when I can, especially when I don't have cash.

    This topic is really enlightening for me personally, because it highlights how gray these things are, and how it's always about intentions. Love it, and all of you Smile
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      • Glow, Louisabell
    Sacred Fool (Offline)

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    #37
    12-05-2020, 09:00 PM
    (12-05-2020, 04:22 PM)unity100 Wrote: SF is literally the municipal Jesus that is suffering for all the sins of the 'responsible' states.

    The situation is not that simple.


    NY Times Nov. 6, 2019 Wrote:In San Francisco, 43 percent of the homeless said they had lived in the city for more than 10 years.

    The path to becoming homeless can start with a large medical bill that causes someone to fall behind on their rent payments, which leads to eventual eviction. More than half of the people surveyed in Los Angeles cited economic hardship as the primary reason that they fell into homelessness. In San Francisco, 26 percent of the homeless surveyed cited the loss of a job as the primary cause.

    The survey also found that nearly a quarter (23 percent) of unsheltered adults lost their housing in 2018 and were experiencing homelessness for the first time. In Los Angeles, a renter earning minimum wage ($13.25 an hour) would need to work 79 hours per week to afford a one-bedroom apartment.

    Data about migration to California from other states among the housed population showed that the largest group of transplants to the state were actually college-educated professionals, ranging from 20 to 29, from Illinois, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania. Over the past five years, California has gained 162,000 more college graduates from other states than it has lost.
      
    The inherent suffering is bound to become much more of a concern in the coming months as the economy falters.
       

      •
    Diana (Offline)

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    #38
    12-06-2020, 01:27 PM
    (12-05-2020, 09:00 PM)peregrine Wrote:   
    The inherent suffering is bound to become much more of a concern in the coming months as the economy falters.
       

    It is my sincere hope that one thing to come out of this Covid debacle is that we in the U.S. take better care of the homeless population. It's appalling as it is. And just doesn't compute to me. It is the least our taxes should provide for.
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      • Glow, sillypumpkins, Louisabell
    sillypumpkins Away

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    #39
    03-22-2021, 04:44 PM
    (03-22-2021, 03:08 PM)Bardiel Wrote: I don't think that giving a homeless person money for drugs is a good idea

    why?

      •
    Ming the Merciful (Offline)

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    #40
    03-22-2021, 05:07 PM (This post was last modified: 03-22-2021, 05:35 PM by Ming the Merciful.)
    In my quest for Self-Realization, through a series of events, (out of my control), I became homeless for a year. I loved every minute of it. In the true sense, it was "Liberation". As for giving somebody who is homeless money? Absolutely. When I observed it from the other side of the fence, any generosity from anyone is like a gift from Heaven, (not that I believe in Heaven). Although at the same time i was viewing the world from a "Zen Viewpoint", and frequently practised Still-Mind Meditation. At the time I was walking from Perpignan to Barcelona, (and beyond), along the coastal road. There was something mysterious? Most nights I slept in small public parks, and arrived in small towns a couple hours before sunset. What happened? I went into a park, and most nights on a park bench was different varieties of baguettes and soft drinks. I would had been impressed if it had happened once or twice. It happened most nights. Will somebody, (please), explain it to me, because it has always been a mystery. As I travelled south, I did encounter other people, and a couple of times I was given a bed for a night and food.

    If you want to find Self-Realization and Liberation, become homeless. When you restart your life with nothing, you gain everything with a new set of values. I had never considered myself as "Materialistic", (however), when you begin again, and less than nothing. Materialistic desires do not exist. I now live a "Minimalistic" lifestyle, and I only own what I need. I didn't go online until six months ago, because I considered it as a luxury I did not need. Then the "God(s) of Technology" taunted me. Go online, or else? Or else what? You don't argue with the God(s). Live a little, (why don't you)? Enough, (already). Go online, (already). So, here I am. So, if you encounter somebody who is homeless, honour him as any other person. Because one day it could happen to you. I, (literally), became homeless overnight, and I decided it would be better to flee to Europe than living where I was. That was the start of the adventure. So ends the discourse and the beginning of the Path to Liberation...

    Peace.


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      • flofrog
    flofrog (Offline)

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    #41
    03-22-2021, 05:11 PM
    How interesting Ming. I had a friend who was homeless and related the same type of curious little things as your bench... Wink

    Nothing like being minimalistic...
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      • Ming the Merciful
    Ming the Merciful (Offline)

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    #42
    03-22-2021, 05:48 PM
    (03-22-2021, 05:11 PM)flofrog Wrote: How interesting Ming. I had a friend who was homeless and related the same type of curious little things as your bench... Wink

    Nothing like being minimalistic...

    When I, (finally), returned and started living inside again. I, (literally), felt like a "Caged Animal". Do you know how good it feels to be outside twenty-four hours a day? What made it more interesting, I had never been to that area of Europe before, so everyday was a new adventure. Most people do not believe me, (but), I loved it. If the situation had not changed, I could have happily continued living like that. The fact was, it was "Self-Realization". The longest I went without the "Food from the God(s)" was three days. What was even more amazing, the food and drink I found was always unopened and untouched. Meanwhile, as I travelled south, I had no expectation finding food at the end of day. Or, I remained neutral about it, and not trying to influence it. That was part of the "Self-Realization". I actually considered it as the most enjoyable part of my life, and nothing has matched it.

      •
    flofrog (Offline)

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    #43
    03-23-2021, 02:08 PM
    (03-22-2021, 05:48 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote:
    (03-22-2021, 05:11 PM)flofrog Wrote: How interesting Ming. I had a friend who was homeless and related the same type of curious little things as your bench... Wink

    Nothing like being minimalistic...

    When I, (finally), returned and started living inside again. I, (literally), felt like a "Caged Animal". Do you know how good it feels to be outside twenty-four hours a day? What made it more interesting, I had never been to that area of Europe before, so everyday was a new adventure. Most people do not believe me, (but), I loved it. If the situation had not changed, I could have happily continued living like that. The fact was, it was "Self-Realization".  The longest I went without the "Food from the God(s)" was three days. What was even more amazing, the food and drink I found was always unopened and untouched. Meanwhile, as I travelled south, I had no expectation finding food at the end of day. Or, I remained neutral about it, and not trying to influence it. That was part of the "Self-Realization". I actually considered it as the most enjoyable part of my life, and nothing has matched it.

    I am not surprised.
    Exactly what my friend described. I am so happy for you Ming, and... mmm,... sorry you are back to a 'lesser' state ? BigSmile

    Fact is many, many years ago I was lucky enough to go to India. I went through the south inside the country very far from the ocean beaches. It was such a cleansing time, I had always thought I had lived in India in other lives, and suddenly I was totally at home, finding places to stay in small villages and living a very minimal life. Nothing like what you lived though, but each day and some nights spent outside too. Very nostalgic for it.
    [+] The following 1 member thanked thanked flofrog for this post:1 member thanked flofrog for this post
      • Ming the Merciful
    Ming the Merciful (Offline)

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    #44
    03-23-2021, 03:44 PM
    (12-05-2020, 02:13 PM)Glow Wrote: Louisabell, I had no idea you guys had managed this issue so well. Heart

    I always think of Canada as being pretty good at social support systems but we flounder on this one.
    I know the funds have been allocated, and an attempt to set up structures has been made but a few things are missing or unaddressed.

    Certain support is only available to people with a current mailing address... how is that suppose to help those in dire need? I am sure there is a reason - to avoid people double dipping, and tracking of funds but it is an issue to getting money from institutions to those most in need here.

    Another issue I have heard from talking to people is thievery, and drug activities within shelter systems.
    If you are clean/ or recovering from addiction one is reluctant to be around addicts for obvious reason, and I hear it is common to wake up to your belongings having been lifted by others while you sleep. It is so cold here in winter, I feel for anyone having to make such choices.

    One of my discussions I referenced above where the fellow made as much as I do and is homeless, yet not an addict has made me wonder if a true solution would require some sort of community mentorship program.

    Like big brothers/sisters only for the homeless. The assigned mentor could be the address where funds are distributed, a certain account could be set up to have an over seer to the funds so housing/food is payed for first then an allowance of sorts per 2 week period. Some sort of guidance in building a better life could be done through an organization with those basics in place.

    The discussions I have had made me see not all are addicts or mentally ill but there is a certain type of trauma that leads to poor impulse control(spending) and perhaps an inability to plan for the future. I would assume being homeless would lead to a type of CPTSD. If not a true ptsd then at minimum just staying in a near constant state of flight or flight would definitely inhibit making the best decisions. Solve the very basics maybe further healing and life development could evolve.

    I would love to see how it is done where you are because it seems we are missing something in our social programs here.

    I will keep giving when asked regardless. We are all one, that is inside them what ever is inhabiting Glow, and I sure have needed help, thankfully not that type of help but I sure hope someone would extend their hand in anyway that they could if I was experiencing being out there and found the courage to ask for anything to help in that moment.

    The one point that everybody is missing? When you offer money to a homeless person, the moment you have offered it to the individual, it is out of your control. The act has been done, and what the person does with the money no longer concerns you, (or your need to know). The act has been done. What the person does with the money, (good is bad), does not concern you, (or affect you). You are judging something which you have no right to judge. What you are implying, here is the money, (but) only use it for good. Indirectly, you are placing an infringement and prejudging a situation. Which is morally wrong. When you give money to a homeless person, it should be done in a neutral state, and no prejudgement.
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      • Patrick, sillypumpkins
    Ming the Merciful (Offline)

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    #45
    03-23-2021, 03:52 PM
    (03-23-2021, 02:08 PM)flofrog Wrote:
    (03-22-2021, 05:48 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote:
    (03-22-2021, 05:11 PM)flofrog Wrote: How interesting Ming. I had a friend who was homeless and related the same type of curious little things as your bench... Wink

    Nothing like being minimalistic...

    When I, (finally), returned and started living inside again. I, (literally), felt like a "Caged Animal". Do you know how good it feels to be outside twenty-four hours a day? What made it more interesting, I had never been to that area of Europe before, so everyday was a new adventure. Most people do not believe me, (but), I loved it. If the situation had not changed, I could have happily continued living like that. The fact was, it was "Self-Realization".  The longest I went without the "Food from the God(s)" was three days. What was even more amazing, the food and drink I found was always unopened and untouched. Meanwhile, as I travelled south, I had no expectation finding food at the end of day. Or, I remained neutral about it, and not trying to influence it. That was part of the "Self-Realization". I actually considered it as the most enjoyable part of my life, and nothing has matched it.

    I am not surprised.
    Exactly what my friend described.  I am so happy for you Ming, and... mmm,... sorry you are back to a 'lesser' state ?  BigSmile

    Fact is many, many years ago I was lucky enough to go to India. I went through the south inside the country very far from the ocean beaches. It was such a cleansing time, I had always thought I had lived in India in other lives, and suddenly I was totally at home, finding places to stay in small villages and living a very minimal life. Nothing like what you lived though, but each day  and some nights spent outside too.  Very nostalgic for it.

    True, it was nothing like I lived through, (but), India suffers from extreme poverty. Did you see any when you were there? What I have seen on TV, some of the worst places are around railway bus stations. When I was in ISKCON it was my dream to go to India. Then I moved on. The countries I want to see now are Russia, China and Japan. Because of my ancestral roots, and the Philosophy.

      •
    flofrog (Offline)

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    #46
    03-23-2021, 09:55 PM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2021, 11:56 AM by flofrog.)
    (03-23-2021, 09:53 PM)flofrog Wrote:
    (03-23-2021, 03:52 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote:
    (03-23-2021, 02:08 PM)flofrog Wrote:
    (03-22-2021, 05:48 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote: [quote='flofrog' pid='291754' dateline='1616447475']
    How interesting Ming. I had a friend who was homeless and related the same type of curious little things as your bench... Wink

    Nothing like being minimalistic...

    When I, (finally), returned and started living inside again. I, (literally), felt like a "Caged Animal". Do you know how good it feels to be outside twenty-four hours a day? What made it more interesting, I had never been to that area of Europe before, so everyday was a new adventure. Most people do not believe me, (but), I loved it. If the situation had not changed, I could have happily continued living like that. The fact was, it was "Self-Realization".  The longest I went without the "Food from the God(s)" was three days. What was even more amazing, the food and drink I found was always unopened and untouched. Meanwhile, as I travelled south, I had no expectation finding food at the end of day. Or, I remained neutral about it, and not trying to influence it. That was part of the "Self-Realization". I actually considered it as the most enjoyable part of my life, and nothing has matched it.

    I am not surprised.
    Exactly what my friend described.  I am so happy for you Ming, and... mmm,... sorry you are back to a 'lesser' state ?  BigSmile

    Fact is many, many years ago I was lucky enough to go to India. I went through the south inside the country very far from the ocean beaches. It was such a cleansing time, I had always thought I had lived in India in other lives, and suddenly I was totally at home, finding places to stay in small villages and living a very minimal life. Nothing like what you lived though, but each day  and some nights spent outside too.  Very nostalgic for it.

    True, it was nothing like I lived through, (but), India suffers from extreme poverty. Did you see any when you were there? What I have seen on TV, some of the worst places are around railway bus stations. When I was in ISKCON it was my dream to go to India. Then I moved on. The countries I want to see now are Russia, China and Japan. Because of my ancestral roots, and the Philosophy.

    You know if you are from the west, you see poverty, immediately,   and poverty is in your eyes overwhelming. If  you live in the country, in very rural areas,  poverty is different because most everyone lives practically in the same state but it's different because everyone is more or less dependent on each other. It's like normal instant compassion and even compassion is not the right word.  Needs are small, things are shared.  It happens in city slums too but there is way more a sense of peace about it outside cities. Although, this is not quite right. There is also a strange peace in city slums. Needs are small.  Also,  things are more seen as a very temporary state, and everyone participates in a sense, things being natural. There is also a great, how shall I say, dignity.  I dont know. I find even words are difficult to really give the sense  of it. It's just a different place, different mind, different everything.  I am very nostalgic for it, still after all those years.

    I wish you the best Ming for your travels to the East.  Wink

      •
    sillypumpkins Away

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    #47
    03-24-2021, 11:02 AM
    i remember once when i was in the desert getting gas, i saw a couple on the side of the gas station who were clearly roughin' it.... it was really hot, and i had been really enamored by karma yoga and the idea of acting without expectation of anything in return.

    so i ended up giving them a $20 bill, and as I gave it to them i let it slip out, "here's some money......... for food or something" gosh!! that haunted me for a good part of the drive
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    Ming the Merciful (Offline)

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    #48
    03-24-2021, 11:16 AM
    (03-24-2021, 11:02 AM)sillypumpkins Wrote: i remember once when i was in the desert getting gas, i saw a couple on the side of the gas station who were clearly roughin' it.... it was really hot, and i had been really enamored by karma yoga and the idea of acting without expectation of anything in return.

    so i ended up giving them a $20 bill, and as I gave it to them i let it slip out, "here's some money......... for food or something" gosh!! that haunted me for a good part of the drive

    Whenever we do a good deed, it should be done without attachment. Or, I am giving some money to a beggar, it makes me feel good. That is attachment to the act. When you give, do not expect anything in return, (your just reward). That is the true spirit of "Serving Others".

    Peace.

    :idea:
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    Nau7ik (Offline)

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    #49
    03-25-2021, 09:58 AM
    There is a major difference, which was touched upon in the Ra Material, between “pleasing” and “serving.” What you asked falls under the category of “pleasing.” It’s not helpful to your growth or the other’s to aid in another’s self-destruction. Now, that person would love for you to give them money for drugs, however it will perpetuate the problem.

    And what if they overdose and/or die? You would incur that karma, even though it wasn’t your intention. You would still be partly responsible for what happened.

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    EvolvingPhoenix (Offline)

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    #50
    03-26-2021, 06:24 AM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2021, 06:25 AM by EvolvingPhoenix.)
    I remember some part in the L/L channelings where the subject of someone giving their money to a loved one to help resolve financial issues they were struggling with came up. Ra used a phrase that I quite liked to describe the situation: "inappropriate use of compassion"

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    Patrick (Offline)

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    #51
    03-26-2021, 07:19 AM
    Giving money can incur a bit of Karma. But your intent in giving it is the most important consideration for Karma.

    It's the same with paying taxes. A part of your money/energy will be used by the army to kill others. There is a bit of Karma. But so small that it can be balanced in higher densities than 3d.

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    Diana (Offline)

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    #52
    03-26-2021, 02:32 PM
    (11-16-2020, 08:09 AM)Patrick Wrote: That money being a gift can be used however they like. For instance, I pay my taxes and very often I do not agree how it is spent. Yet I do not feel responsible for how my taxes are misused.

    There is a difference between giving money to the homeless and paying taxes. Giving money to the homeless is a free choice. Paying taxes is mandatory and whether or not we agree with how it is being spent, we are coerced into supporting things like war and killing.

    I personally do feel responsible to a certain extent in paying taxes which support cruelties. I could choose to fight the system, but I don't choose to do that, so I must be responsible for what choice I do make. I do not think I can be separated from the atrocities and corruptions I support with my taxes; whereas I can be detached from an individual's choices of what to do with money I gift them. I have no right to assign a path to an individual; but we as citizens have the right and obligation to be a part of and create our own governments. The problem is that the governments are corrupt and the system does not work the way it was intended. So I might be detached from the human drama, but I cannot be absolved of responsibility to a system I actually have an obligation to as a citizen, and that I agreed to be part of when I came into this life (on whatever level that happened).
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    Patrick (Offline)

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    #53
    03-26-2021, 02:47 PM
    Thanks Diana for the distinction, I don't know why I did not see it. Also, I made the same argument twice, completely forgot I had already made it in this thread. Angel

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    Ming the Merciful (Offline)

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    #54
    03-27-2021, 03:38 PM
    (03-26-2021, 02:47 PM)Patrick Wrote: Thanks Diana for the distinction, I don't know why I did not see it.  Also, I made the same argument twice, completely forgot I had already made it in this thread.  Angel

    Once again, paying taxes is out of your control. What the Government does with the money, (morally or immorally), can no longer be controlled by you. The only way to change how they spend the money, is by voting for a moral Government. As far as I know, there is not a moral Government anywhere on Earth? Sooner, (or later), the "Karmic Responsibility" will bring its just rewards. Perhaps it is happening now, when "Gaia" and the "Universe" has had enough of the immature Humanity? Evolve, (or else). It is time to become responsible and mature. What the problem is, (and I have argument this point for years). Until all the governments stop being corrupted by Materialism, nothing will change. Most Politicians are only in Politics because of "Egotistic Desires" and "Social Climbing". They are not in Politics for moral reasons, or to improve society. All the wars around the world were started by Politicians. The average person just wants to live in peace, and most people will happily associate with anyone.

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    Patrick (Offline)

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    #55
    03-27-2021, 04:06 PM
    Nowadays, their power, their towers, all stands on their favorite toy/tool... the concept of money.  If we want to fix the way our leadership is working, we need to address the root cause.  The root cause is people still under the spell that money is a valid tool for energy exchange.  It is not a valid tool.  It exists only to steal our energy and haul it up their towers.  It will take nearly 80% of the population realizing this before we can even think of changing anything for the better externally.

    With the censure tools coming online all over the place, any talks against the concept of money will be deleted from public view.  All the conspiracy nonsense is just them giving themselves, via us, a good reason to put these censure tools in place.  So those pushing the nonsensical conspiration narrative are helping the Elites very much.  They think their helping get rid of the Elites and waking people up, but in reality it's just accomplishing the contrary.

    Which will leave us with a single way of passing this information in the future.  Making it so that people can realize this by themselves, since we won't be able to tell them.  We can help enable this possibility by teach/learning about opening the heart center and intuition.  Hence all the fluffy love and light posts I am making all the time.  It's the only thing they cannot and will never be able to misuse against us.

    They'll never succeed in convincing the general population that censoring love and light is a good idea.  These messages will always be available to those who are seeking truth.
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    #56
    03-27-2021, 05:00 PM (This post was last modified: 03-27-2021, 05:09 PM by Ming the Merciful.)
    Once again this comes back to who controls your Mind? Hence, why I opened the other thread about overcoming "Intellectualism". When you go into Intuitive Mind, you are in your "Higher State" of thinking. The majority of people are distracted by programs on TV, promoting useless singing or dancing contests, (which I never watch). Or, even the mainstream news, because it is used as tool for "Sentimentality" and "Misinformation". Now they are promoting the same thing on the Internet, making it impossible for people to think for themselves. We are in a minority. The "Resistance". Or, we still have the ability think for ourselves, and will not be "Brainwashed". I know Brainwashing when I see it, and I, (either), watch it, (and rollover in hysterical laughter, (or)), ignore it.

    To give you an example. A few months ago a Russian warship was sailing from somewhere in the Black Sea, to somewhere in Siberia for maintenance. The warship sailed through the North Sea, (which it had every legal right to do as it was in International Water). A local TV station heard about the warship, and reported on the incident. How the story was presented, you would had thought that we were on the brink of nuclear war with Russia. I sided with the Russians.  It was the fact the way it was presented. Obviously, for anti-Russian propaganda, misinformation and disinformation. From that point, I stopped watching that TV channel. All the TV channels are the same and you cannot trust any of them.  

    Where I live most of the people are terrified about the Pandemic. What Pandemic is this, (I ask inquisitively). As I stated in another Post, I remain in that "Stillness" and feel unaffected by it. The same thing applies with the propaganda and misinformation, detached from it. When you know the Truth, you have nothing to fear. The Truth will set you free. Basically, if we continue within the "Neutral State", nothing in the Outside World can affect us. I did not even believe in the Pandemic when the story broke on the news the first time, because it didn't feel right, (Intuition), and I still don't. You cannot take my Mind, (thank you), I am not gullible. Try somebody else.

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    Ymarsakar (Offline)

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    #57
    03-27-2021, 05:22 PM
    I am not using patrick s strategy. I will just burn down the economic system and replace it.
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    #58
    03-27-2021, 05:37 PM
    Right on Brother.

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    Ohr Ein Sof Away

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    #59
    03-27-2021, 07:52 PM
    I say, give the guy some change. We don't know if he will use it to buy a crack pipe or a hamburger and why does it matter?
    I do not believe it is misplaced compassion either. Perhaps it is for some other guy, but what about the guy that is always wise and needs to balance his wisdom with unbridled compassion? Without examining the motives of another and without digging into his blue ray?
    I mean, we aren't putting our homes up for a second mortgage, are we? We are literally talking about pocket change.
    If someone tells you they need heroin or they think they will go through the withdrawal and die due to the withdrawal symptoms, I am going with a hard NOPE. NO MONEY; but are they hungry? Are they thristy? Do we have $5.00?
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    Ymarsakar (Offline)

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    #60
    03-27-2021, 07:58 PM
    Why dont i just buy a chik fil sandwitch and give it to em. Then i dont need to worry about what the money is used for.

    If they are hungry, feed them. If they need shelter from rain, give them a coat.
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