Depression

[sillypumpkins]

hello

I recently was hit with some pretty intense depression after a while of not experiencing it (at least not this intensely.)

Since the last time I experienced depression, my perspective on illness in general has shifted. I no longer view it as a "defect", I don't need to be "fixed", and anyways, I planned for this to be a part of my experience for a reason. That reason, to me, is to encourage me to accept those parts of my self that I haven't yet.

With that being said, I've been spending some time reading old posts on here about depression, CTRL+Fing 'depression' on that megatranscript of L/L channellings. I am attempting to further refine my understanding of 'depression', why it occurs, how it functions as a catalyst, etc.

So in this thread, I am going to be riffing off some thoughts/questions I've had about depression, and if anyone wishes to engage in conversation, perhaps we can learn something together..

Anyways, I still sort of view depression as an indication that one has "gone off their path" somehow, and that there are behaviors, thoughts, that the individual engages in that might need to be corrected. However, this doesn't really resonate with me much anymore, I mean, can one really go "off" their path? Are we not always walking it?

What is depression? Well, in my experience, it's like one's "aura" becomes gluey. My sense of self becomes blurry, and it becomes hard to function in everyday life. I have no energy, and I actively isolate myself because often times it pains me to be around others. I no longer enjoy doing the things I once enjoyed, and everything feels sort of "hopeless."

What is depression, according to Q'uo?:

"The state of mind you call depression is simply the realization consciously, that the self has no been accepted."

Ahhh okay, that makes sense.

I suppose it can sort of be viewed like, a part of you hasn't been accepted, and just like, say, if you were in a family and one member hasn't been "accepted", then oftentimes that "unaccepted" member will often become depressed.

So what's the best way to go about handling depression? Well, I would say that providing a safe space internally for that "unaccepted" part of yourself, so it can express itself is important. Not getting upset about feeling "negative" is important too, because let's face it, you've been ignoring this part of yourself for god knows how long, it must be heard if one wishes to accept themselves.

Another thing: lots of people suggest things like exercise, meditation, social interaction, as activities that will help alleviate depression. My question is, would these activities help the individual accept the part of the self that hasn't been accepted, or do they simply help stave off the "feeling" of being depressed?

Would anyone like to add anything? So far that's all I've got, but if someone would like to add to it then I'd appreciate that.

thanks all

[AnthroHeart]

I think depression is not being in line with your higher self and who you truly are.

Have you seen this emotional guidance scale?
You don't have to go for joy. Just go for the next best emotion if you can.

[Diana]

A thought comes to mind from the Castaneda books. And I paraphrase:

There was a moment well into his apprenticeship when Carlos was really despondent and he told don Juan. And don Juan started laughing. Carlos was offended and asked what was so funny. Don Juan answered that he was happy, because Carlos was starting to learn.

This had to do with the depression or discomfort experienced when one realizes the world is more than a cozy human construct and one is faced with sheer vastness of existence—and the scope of the unknown and unknowable. 

This context may be quite different than another situation or typical depression, as Carlos was on a particular path with his "teacher." But I wanted to add it as a possibility for the experience of depression.

[ada]

Thank you for coming forward in creating this discussion and sharing openly about yourself.
I've been depressed for a while, or I think I have cause I'm not sure how others feel. But one day I've been so depressed, that when it climaxed I suddenly felt very empty and desireless.. but soon afterwards I felt a surge of creativity and purpose again. It almost felt like it became the complete opposite, which reminded me of a concept someone had shared with me, it is called Enantiodromia. From wiki:

Enantiodromia (Greek: ἐνάντιος, enantios, opposite + δρόμος, dromos, running course) is a principle introduced by psychiatrist Carl Jung that the superabundance of any force inevitably produces its opposite. It is equivalent to the principle of equilibrium in the natural world, in that any extreme is opposed by the system in order to restore balance.

I think this feeling and experience is very unique to us here right now, and perhaps in time/space we and all else aren't as seperate and lonely that this kind of perspective is very valuable.

It has also reminded me of a passage I've read in dao de jing:

Under Heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness.
All can know good as good only because there is evil.

Therefore having and not having arise together.
Difficult and easy complement each other.
Long and short contrast with each other;
High and low rest upon each other;
Voice and sound harmonize each other;
Front and back follow one another.

Therefore the sage goes about doing nothing, teaching no talking.
The ten thousand things rise and fall without cease,
Creating, yet not possessing,
Working, yet not taking credit,
Work is done, then forgotten.
Therefore it lasts for ever.

[sillypumpkins]

@ GreatCentralSun:

I think depression is not being in line with your higher self and who you truly are.

I sort of view it similarly as mentioned in my post (the "going off the path" bit.) Though, I'm not sure. It doesn't feel 'right' to me anymore...

And thanks for sharing the chart, sun !

@Diana:

Thank you for sharing that excerpt/ perspective.... I can certainly relate to that discomfort one feels when faced with the "sheer vastness of existence." In my experience w/ depression, it often feels like I am being pointed toward that vastness..... it just hurts to look at it sometimes...

@ada:

Thank you for sharing your experience and that Jungian phrase.... I had never heard it before. It reminds me of the Buddhist concept of the Arising and Passing Away...

Great little poem as well.... thanks for that too :-)

[Sacred Fool]

What is depression? Well, in my experience, it's like one's "aura" becomes gluey. My sense of self becomes blurry, and it becomes hard to function in everyday life. I have no energy, and I actively isolate myself because often times it pains me to be around others. I no longer enjoy doing the things I once enjoyed, and everything feels sort of "hopeless."

What is depression, according to Q'uo?:

"The state of mind you call depression is simply the realization consciously, that the self has no[t] been accepted."

That energy which created all that there is may be seen to be the center of all that there is. This field of love is of a nature which is reproduced and is the stuff of all levels of vibration which stem therefrom.  This nature is an essence or a fullness of field. The energy is saturated, that is, there is fullness of love. You seek in understanding cycles to better understand healing. However it is an understanding, shall we say, of fields and of the amount of saturation or fullness of love in the fields, in field strength, shall we say, that aids in the efficacy of healing. That is, the more saturated the awareness of love is, the more fullness of health there is.

The non-acceptance referred to in your Q'uo quote would be something potent enough to gum up your field and would be antithetical to love.  A deep seated unconscious hatred might be one possibility: something so sinister, you dare not look it in the face, yet you would halt your own internal energy flow in order to draw your attention to the general problem. 

What, for instance, could you fiercely hate, yet be ashamed of acknowledging?  On what level of consciousness might you have stowed away this radio-active cargo?

Another approach would be to observe where you are most weakened and wounded and how much storage of anti-love emotions are squirreled away there.


And, oh, by the way, doing such work is surely a service to us all and to our tortured little planet.  The more anti-love which is put to rest, the better off we all are, in my view.
  
  

[sillypumpkins]

Thank you peregrine, your posts are always so insightful and eloquent

The non-acceptance referred to in your Q'uo quote would be something potent enough to gum up your field and would be antithetical to love.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Would you be willing to elaborate?

What, for instance, could you fiercely hate, yet be ashamed of acknowledging? On what level of consciousness might you have stowed away this radio-active cargo?

I certainly have an unconscious hatred of myself.... stowed away on the level of.... unconsciousness.....

also I am curious about your use of the phrase radio-active in this context specifically...

And, oh, by the way, doing such work is surely a service to us all and to our tortured little planet.

thanks for this reminder

[Asolsutsesvyl]

These mentions of non-acceptance make me think of my own journey, and one possibility of what such non-acceptance can mean. Judging things unacceptable is about closing off movement in particular directions. What if unconsciously, more directions have been closed off than one believes? Then one may become unable to move at all.

My idealism, connected to what I think of as positively-polarizing striving, used to be very black and white. In the past, it grew more rigid the more it grew, perhaps. And eventually, I first had a great personal breakthrough, but then ended up unable to move in any particular direction in life.

It took a few depressed inner roller-coaster years to loosen up that rigid structure, creating room for life and "movement" on a freer foundation. I still have much more to do in terms of becoming more self-accepting, regarding some things I have begun to perceive. Perhaps until then, it is in part still as if my subconscious mind holds me in a straitjacket of my own making.

Looking back, maybe one can get away with such self-judging for a time, as long as it is possible to move in the other directions which remain open. It may even be easier, through some extra self-galvanizing. But afterwards, an imbalance remains and the wall needs to be broken down. And the more is built on a false foundation inside, the more painful it usually becomes to go through what ends up being needed to break it down and reach balance and a new and fuller clarity.

[Sacred Fool]

Thank you peregrine, your posts are always so insightful and eloquent

Yeah, maybe now and then in recent years.  If go back further, you'll see some freely idiotic and obnoxious posts to balance out the recent ones.  In other words, it's been a journey.

Anyhow, I think you are already conceptually hip.  The two things which puzzle you might be (1) the layout of your ugly, veiled internal content and (2) a planned approach to enter upon the quest, not in general terms, but specific to your particular distortions.
To wit, I'm sure you can easily conceive of how--in general--you could be harboring such an incredibly fierce hatred of self that it has become self-crippling.  I would guess that there are very few of us who do not do this to one extent or another.   But you already know all this, don't you?
Taking (2) above first, I might suggest beginning by sniffing around and coming up with an inventory of energies within and around you which, rather than being full of love, actually suck love.  For instance, places of dread and fear, perhaps tied to pivotal early childhood experiences.  Or maybe areas of home or work or social life where you suck love, or others do so from you.  Then, having noted these, you'll want to begin working to balance them out somehow so that these "fields" become more healthy, that is, full of love.
After becoming somewhat comfortable with that, then you might go deliberately diving into the stinky, dark recesses of the lower chakras.  It's beyond belief how much raw sewage a person can be carrying around with them.  And it, for instance, can come as quite a blow to discover that the outward architecture of one's entire life has been crafted a around pathetic misunderstanding called self-hatred which conduced to mis-guided self punishment and consequent crippling of one's energetic experience and potential for consciousness.  Take from one who's been there, it takes a lot of help and a strong desire to grow to be able to ask your internal self-protection apparatus to allow you into repository where such yuckiness is held.  It's not a simple task.  Ergo, items (1) and (2) above are not gained through the expression of casual interest, nor by posting in the internet.  But you already know that, don't you?  The depression of your energy system is telling you, "You've got mail."  It's up to you to pick up the letter and open it.  That's where the adventure begins.
  
  

[ricdaw]

I suppose this is an odd answer for a spiritual place, but I recently had some bouts of depression that were chemical imbalances.  I was going through andropause and it was quite . . . unpleasant at times.  


Depression can be a catalyst.  But sometimes it's your body not functioning right.  Not as a spiritual lesson or motivation, but just being imbalanced.


I saw my dad go into a form of psychosis with some weird potassium imbalance that the doctors had to find.  No reason.  Scary.


So there's that.  Give yourself permission to let these bouts be temporary malfunctions that you do not need pierce through to find a bigger spiritual meaning.  The body will correct itself.  That is the meaning of that Justice Card in tarot.  The body in balance.  (And if the body needs help, ask for it.  From a doctor.  These people are big hearted healers and are here for a reason.)

In these covid times I brush by the depression when I realize the tension between what I want to be happening and what I have.  Like eating out.  Hugging family and friends.  Doing.  When what I have is a modified shelter-in-place.  For months at a time.

Hugs to you!

[sillypumpkins]

@peregrine - your replies have encouraged me to inquire more deeply within myself, and to find the courage within so that I can carry out this journey. i'm still having a little bit of a hard time getting started (it feels daunting) but today I made a point to sit down and sort of write down why I'm feeling depressed (there's a discrepancy between how I want to live and how I am living, for one thing,) and what reactions/responses I act out in my daily life circumstances. I listed some of the few times I've been especially "triggered" (felt the most wounded, in other words) and further elaborated on why these instances might have been so triggering for me. It's a small step but I can feel that it's been a positive one. That is, positive in the sense that it's bringing me closer to that which I desire

@ricdaw - thanks for your response and I appreciate the tarot connection you made. however, can't all catalyst be considered 'lessons?' like, if it's just my body being imbalanced, is there not a lesson embedded in there either way? I suppose it's all perspective, lol. I don't know, I just sort of view every single thing as an opportunity to learn, grow.... try to at least, lol.

[Aion]

A lot of good insight here, I think that it is definitely a unique experience for each person. I can't speak for anyone but myself but there may be shared touchstones.

I was first diagnosed with depression when I was 7 years old. There are various situations that were happening at the time, but ultimately I later realized that they had left me feeling powerless. This powerlessness caused me to create a huge ego, to bridge the abyss beneath it. Still, at the age of 30, I find myself on that bridge but it is tattered and frayed, it is no longer strong or supportive. I precariously look over in to the darkness and wonder when it will give out under my feet.

Down in that darkness is all the parts of myself that I never wanted to look at, never wanted to acknowledge. The desires, the feelings, the hurts, the loves, all that content.

Knowing that the darkness itself is an illusion created by a separation I've created in my own consciousness I can see the wall of fear through which I have to pass in order to reconnect the pieces. Yet, I hesitate, because the fear tells me so many things, tries to deter me, tells me who will be hurt by my transformation and that I am not worth it.

I feel I have been in a stand off with this wall for many years and I am tired of arguing with a wall. Probably time to move through it soon.

[Diana]

I feel I have been in a stand off with this wall for many years and I am tired of arguing with a wall. Probably time to move through it soon.

I love this. It really gets to the bottom line. Well said.

[Aion]

Thanks, something just clicked for me, I was on the train of thought and then checked this post.

For so long, I think I haven't been able to understand what acceptance means. I don't know how to 'do' it, or so I thought.
It is just leaving things where they are. The conscious mind is tethered to every experience it ever had only because it attempts to bring them in to the present.
Leaving things in the past means accepting they are exactly as they are, unchangeable.
I think I have striven for so long to be better than my past self, I haven't been able to recognize my present self.
That is the self that the wall surrounds, a wall built of ghosts and demons from my memory.
All along I've only been haunting myself, go figure.

Again, only referencing myself to offer an imperfect mirror.

[Sacred Fool]

  
I wish to add a somewhat different perspective on this state of separation from Love buried deep in the energy body which we are calling depression.

I've discovered (or uncovered) the fact that the "little man behind the curtain" who projects a constructed organization of the elements of reality so as to constrict my flow of being down at the root level is, in fact, myself.  The little thing which projects the barrier preventing me from knowing myself there, and prevents others from assisting me, is me.  Indeed, I've discerned that this little person is also a projection.  What actually appears to be real is that seat of creative power in which it sits.

In my particular case, I've traced this distortion back to a time in utero when my mother fully felt the force of my father's internalized abandonment complex projected at her which fully ignited her own internalized abandonment complex.  This caused her to emotionally reject the pregnancy for a period of time, and this, in turn, caused the foetus (moi) to feel utterly abandoned and to reject itself in the sense that it (I) cast off all hope of having loving connections with humans or with this planet in general.  This distortion somehow found its way to that creative seat of power and created a very powerful energy construct which has been tilting me towards feeling rejection and disconnection for my entire incarnation to date.

As I have been slowly working with this, that seat of creative power has become less strictly guarded and I have begun to apply the basic Q'uo cliche to this situation.  Paraphrasing: "Where is the Love in this hot mess?"  I've begun hanging out down there, not expecting pain, but expecting love because, if one can poise oneself with enough determination and resonance of truth to approach the zone of the seat of creative power, one can just as easily commune with Love there as project defensiveness, fear, etc.

I'm just beginning on this particular pathway.  I expect I'll eventually need to approach similar distortions in each energy center ad seriatim, which sounds like a lot of work, but maybe not so bad considering we're looking at a lifelong distortion.  We'll see how far along in that direction I can wander.
  
  

[sillypumpkins]

thanks for sharing aion and peregrine. i love reading other's shared experiences......

[Ralib1]

I think what OP is saying makes a lot of sense. Depression is really a deep-repression of some part of yourself which causes you to lose touch with reality and your purpose. In my case I’ve been hiding who I really am (especially my sexual orientation and spiritual beliefs) since childhood and because of all the “masks” I wore I forgot who I really was inside. I also think there’s a lot of physical factors in play too. Lack of sleep, poor diet, exercise, etc

[sillypumpkins]

hey everyone, I want to bump this post because I've been experiencing some new things that coincide with my depressive tendencies

so I've been experiencing depressive episodes for like, most of my life. Sometimes it's been a "low-grade" depression, sometimes it's been really intense. I've always sort of like a "depressed" person. Like, I always tend to go to that side of things. Perhaps that has had to do with my perspective on life up until now? Not sure. Joy isn't something I have experienced as much as depression.....

but anyways, for the last month or so I've been experiencing some really potent depression. But it's been, ummmm, different. Lately I have been having really, really dark days. Usually, this feeling would knock me out for the day. Stay in bed. Don't eat. Try to forget the feeling. And that has sort of been there still. I'm still not feeding myself properly, been knocking myself out with Zzquil before bed because the feeling feels overbearing. All that stuff.

But at the same time, I've been experiencing more joy in the midst of these depressive episodes than I have in well..... a long time I guess.

It's really been very jarring for me.... it almost feels like I am balancing out a little bit.

The only thing I can think of that may have catalyzed this, was my recent contemplation on the topic of non-duality and the paradoxical nature of all things. I've just been resting easier in the confusion, I suppose. And that seems to have initiated some processes in my mental space.

Idk, just wanted to share with y'all!

much love

[Graemett]

"We cannot be more sensitive to pleasure without being more sensitive to pain." - Alan Watts

As long as there is resistance to a certain feeling or group of feelings, they will persist. Remember there are no wrong feelings, even though wrong actions in a social context may be taken based on certain feelings, on the strictly sensate level, it is impossible to have an incorrect feeling.

[sillypumpkins]

i love that quote graemett, thank you for sharing.

it does feel like the way I am now experiencing my emotions was preceded by a degree of acceptance towards the "negative" emotions I so often find myself experiencing. and so... the scales must balance! now I am beginning to feel those positive emotions as much as I am the negative..... and while it's often jarring and confusing, having not been used to experiencing my emotions in this way, I have found it easier to rest within the paradox of feeling like there is no point, and, knowing that there is one.

i am for sure in a state of utter confusion these days, however..... I am surprisingly okay with that

thanks again

[flofrog]

Mmm, Silly, much awe and gratitude for what you are feeling. Beginning to feel the same amount of both emotions means that what feels like the deep hard work is creating much progress... do not give up, the hard part might suddenly appear much easier.

On edit : Silly you might wish to visit the daily thread and particularly Quan post #1,854...

[MrWho]

Strength comes with accepting weakness and pushing forward regardless.

Sadness pain weakness failure. These are not oppositions, they are realities. Hold onto them, "flip the script". Use them as fuel to choose the alternative!

True strength is knowing your weaknesses, and not letting them define you. It is not proper to ignore or defeat these parts of ourselfs.

You should honor your pain and all the effort you make to be self actualized.

All is well.

[sillypumpkins]

@flo - thank you so much for your words flo, you always make me blush..... and thanks for referring me to the q'uote... love it

@mrwho - thank you kindly mr who!! I resonate very much with what you said..... 'encouraging' is one way I'd describe what you wrote

[meadow-foreigner]

Excellent feedbacks on this topic throughout time, so far. May I add the following:

Human beings (as any living being, actually) are social.

Lack of optimal performance — that is, harmonized and congruent with The Creation as a whole — often befalls an individual throughout a social and circumstantial, systematic, joint, disruptive effort with entropic ends.

It (usually) takes two people to give birth to a child, and most often than not the depressing patterns stem from a position of hopelessness — lack of support — and isolation.

Be such a position empowered by an individual's action or lack thereof, there may be the consequence of an unsettling sense of a mismatch in the sensation of fullness of love.

Such fullness may be more prevalent amongst peers and within a congruent social interaction between kindred souls — a healthy and supportive social environment.

If there's a discrepancy between the energetic profile of an individual and their social cell, for instance, there may come an unsettling sense of a mismatch in the sensation of fullness of love — for it is more abundantly expressed amidst more harmonized living beings.

The thing is — sometimes the effort required to overcome such a counterproductive obstacle (which is, sufficeless to say, deliberately put there by the current entropic social structure) may be too high or too demanding on any given individual.

The cognitive conflict that may come upon the struggling individual may, much like in the Joule Heating effect (a loss of intended energy output in a system — such as electric energy — throughout a conductor, expressed in the form of the output of another type of energy, such as thermal), cause the organic body to lose efficiency in its manifestation in the world.

To treat the effects and not the causes is not only counterproductive — for such treatments don't cease the conflict, merely suppressing it whilst at the same time preventing the individual to perform optimally — but also pointless.
The effects manifest in the physical body. The causes, however, are mental, for mind precedes matter.

So, when the subject is health, contrary to the current social consensus that is mostly body-centric, it really is a matter of mind.

Acceptance, in the context of the Q'uo channelings, may be seen as the halting of a contrary force to a given movement; such as ceasing to resist the downwards flow of a river. However, nothing really worthwhile is downwards, for sedimentation is a characteristic of inertial bodies, destitute of their own volition, and fully subject to environmental forces.
In other words, acquiescence is a characteristic of mindless cattle, not human beings with volition.

Notwithstanding the above, it is useful to cease the mental resistance in an undesired situation (throughout acceptance as a first step), for such resistance is entropic when causing movementless vectorial friction.

In order to really treat the causes of mental patterns such as depression and anxiety, one should detect the thought patterns that have been ingrained throughout one's life by various types of subconscious programming, wherefrom may manifest itself through the conscious mind unconsciously.

Therefore, self-awareness and self-knowledge are paramount. From there, one may understand the circumstantial reasons of such entropic programming, thus beginning the process of healing, also via awareness to turn hitherto unconscious actions into conscious decisions, so one may shape and create one's own life more desirably.

The social aspect of the healing process is absolutely important. One should always surround oneself with like-minded people, so one can benefit oneself and also everyone else in the social system by offering different perspectives of consonant topics and issues, thus effectively creating a better world for the generations to come.