I want to explore the negative polarity.

[Louisabell]

Actually, this thread has got me thinking about the implications of STO individuals in third-density serving a STS individual by helping them graduate into 4D negative. Is this legitimate service?! Obviously this wouldn't be done by allowing one to be controlled, but potentially by giving advice? Or maybe by allowing the STS entity to believe it has controlled the STO entity (by the STO entity not feeling a need to challenge the claim of domination).

The energies of your Wanderers, your teachers, and your adepts at this time are all bent upon increasing the harvest. However, there are few to harvest.

If the above case is true, then would a STO wanderer's energy also be bent on helping those of STS polarity also be harvested, especially if that is the only way the third-density STS entity is likely to be harvested?

19.18 Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

So is it better to see-off a STS entity graduate onto their 4D planet of choice, as oppose to trying to change its mind, potentially depolarising it and thereby causing it to be one of the "helpless" who cannot graduate?

Am I missing something here? Are these questions stupid? Help(!), anyone?

[Minyatur]

So is it better to see-off a STS entity graduate onto their 4D planet of choice, as oppose to trying to change its mind, potentially depolarising it and thereby causing it to be one of the "helpless" who cannot graduate?

Am I missing something here? Are these questions stupid? Help(!), anyone?

There is no better, the question is what do you want as a self?

[Louisabell]

There is no better, the question is what do you want as a self?

Oh geez, I'm seriously drawing a blank. I'm going to have to think about that one.

[Minyatur]

There is no better, the question is what do you want as a self?

Oh geez, I'm seriously drawing a blank. I'm going to have to think about that one.

To dive into the details of if it is better.

Is it useful to the One Infinite Creator? Yes.

Is it useful to our Logos which designed this mixed polarity experience? Yes.

It is useful to the Confederation of Planets that wars the negative polarity? Not from their perspective, still does though on the long term as it goes back to higher principles of unity.

It is useful to you? Probably will require balancing throughout the development of the repercussions of this entanglement, still does though on the long term as it goes back to higher principles of unity.

It's almost like there's no mistakes.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Actually, this thread has got me thinking about the implications of STO individuals in third-density serving a STS individual by helping them graduate into 4D negative. Is this legitimate service?! Obviously this wouldn't be done by allowing one to be controlled, but potentially by giving advice? Or maybe by allowing the STS entity to believe it has controlled the STO entity (by the STO entity not feeling a need to challenge the claim of domination).

The energies of your Wanderers, your teachers, and your adepts at this time are all bent upon increasing the harvest. However, there are few to harvest.

If the above case is true, then would a STO wanderer's energy also be bent on helping those of STS polarity also be harvested, especially if that is the only way the third-density STS entity is likely to be harvested?

19.18 Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

So is it better to see-off a STS entity graduate onto their 4D planet of choice, as oppose to trying to change its mind, potentially depolarising it and thereby causing it to be one of the "helpless" who cannot graduate?

Am I missing something here? Are these questions stupid? Help(!), anyone?

If the above case is true, then would a STO wanderer's energy also be bent on helping those of STS polarity also be harvested, especially if that is the only way the third-density STS entity is likely to be harvested?

Ra is speaking of the positive polarity harvest here.
And, I think your assumption is correct that it would do any of us any good to assist an STS entity to increase their polarity although, it will happen as they use clever ways to ensnare the positive polarity. This is why I believe it is so important to have discernment or a knowing of your environment and the company you keep but also your mental company also known as your thoughts. Understanding that the negative polarity has the same freedoms as you and honoring their freedoms is paramount but, will not come without a deep understanding of the game of Life. The positive polarity will always seek to understand and forgive another's so-called shortcomings and the negative will always seek to control another's movements while the fellows that make up the sinkhole will become indifferent to The Game.

So is it better to see-off a STS entity graduate onto their 4D planet of choice, as oppose to trying to change its mind, potentially depolarising it and thereby causing it to be one of the "helpless" who cannot graduate?

Those who are not conscious are the victims Ra speaks of...they do not even know they are to do anything at all but to wake up each day, do what they do and then retire to bed at night not giving one iota to what this world is really about, what we are here for, where we came from or even if there is anything of true infinite value.

[meadow-foreigner]

Actually, this thread has got me thinking about the implications of STO individuals in third-density serving a STS individual by helping them graduate into 4D negative. Is this legitimate service?! Obviously this wouldn't be done by allowing one to be controlled, but potentially by giving advice? Or maybe by allowing the STS entity to believe it has controlled the STO entity (by the STO entity not feeling a need to challenge the claim of domination).

The energies of your Wanderers, your teachers, and your adepts at this time are all bent upon increasing the harvest. However, there are few to harvest.

If the above case is true, then would a STO wanderer's energy also be bent on helping those of STS polarity also be harvested, especially if that is the only way the third-density STS entity is likely to be harvested?

Instead of labeling a Wanderer as STO or STS, keep in mind that, as it was stated by Ra, the main advantages in re-doing the 3D is the balancing of light — information, wisdom — and love — creation, compassion.

Are there some things that can and/or should be done, and things that can and/or should not be done?
Are there certain guidelines that can and/or should be followed through, despite contrary opinion or statements of other-Selves?

Are there premisses that should not be followed through, despite general consensus or agreement towards it?

Also, could you clearly define what service is, on each occasion? Such might be the balancing that those who identify with the Wanderer label could do, in order to further refine themselves.

How do you perceive service to be? Is it necessarily the fulfillment of a request as it is requested, from another Self?

19.18 Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

So is it better to see-off a STS entity graduate onto their 4D planet of choice, as oppose to trying to change its mind, potentially depolarising it and thereby causing it to be one of the "helpless" who cannot graduate?

Am I missing something here? Are these questions stupid? Help(!), anyone?

The universe is one being. When a mind/body/spirit complex views another mind/body/spirit complex, see the Creator. This is an helpful exercise.

3D is the Density of Choice, and you are also continuously building this choice while you're incarnated here.

Should you serve or not serve the Self, in relation with other-Selves? Who has greater importance?

Isn't a denial of service to other-Selves also karmically followed by a denial of service from others to the Self, when the Self requests it?

As always, that's something that varies from individual to individual. There are no formulas when it comes to performing and living in 3D, as it has infinitely variable complexities and idiosyncrasies.

[Louisabell]

There is no better, the question is what do you want as a self?

Oh geez, I'm seriously drawing a blank. I'm going to have to think about that one.

To dive into the details of if it is better.

Is it useful to the One Infinite Creator? Yes.

Is it useful to our Logos which designed this mixed polarity experience? Yes.

It is useful to the Confederation of Planets that wars the negative polarity? Not from their perspective, still does though on the long term as it goes back to higher principles of unity.

It is useful to you? Probably will require balancing throughout the development of the repercussions of this entanglement, still does though on the long term as it goes back to higher principles of unity.

It's almost like there's no mistakes.

There are no mistakes, but choices have to be made.

On the question of what I want as a self - well I want joy and I want challenge.

Joy is an obvious choice, but challenge is the great blessing in disguise that gives the eternal gift of having learnt more about myself.

And perhaps the greatest challenge of all is the clear mirror which reflects back accurately the Self in all its glorious imperfection. So honesty is a great service in and of itself, given without any expectation of how it should be received, of course.

[throwawaynegative132]

  
All that may be so from an externalized standpoint, but there is also the option of focusing mainly on internal work.  In other words, just as one can focus the balance of one's STO efforts towards helping others externally or on inner work, those of the darker path have similar possibilities.  Ergo, committing mass atrocities is one way, and severe internal discipline is another.

Of course, one must concede that either of these can lead to complications in their own realm: imprisonment outwardly, insanity inwardly.  Everything comes with trade-offs, so it pays to choose wisely and act decisively.  What is it to choose wisely?  As mentioned above somewhere, it's to know and to harmonize with your sense of your own deep disposition.  To do otherwise is of questionable value, peregrine says.
  

This is very much true. I have chosen the latter. As expected that is much harder. I find the replies of the others very interesting. There can be no denial that STS is the path of that which is not. It is covered in lies but yet it is equally valid. My whole life I have been generally positive. Not because I wanted to but because I just was. This has led me to experience a great deal of pain and suffering which could have been avoided had I been a little more selfish. I find that if I'm suffering now it makes no difference on the path I'm on and that If I am on the STS path at least I get to experience the pleasure of power and conquest. Rather than being conquered by the negative feelings that accompany every day I will learn to discipline myself and control myself and more importantly control my fate.
I've been the outcast my whole life, I am going trough and have gone trough my fair share of trauma as many others have and eventually at some point I just fell apart. I could not bring my ideals into balance with the harsh reality. No matter how hard I believed in the way of love it never yieled me anything but more pain. The only reason I started to consider the negative path so late is that I had a great fear that perhaps I was never originally meant to be STS. Perhaps I came into this life with different expectations. I had a great deal of dreams about the world after but I lack the expertise to fully understand it.
In my view there is no way to win in this world without succumbing to STS. All my life experiences have proven me that. I have tried for a long time to believe otherwise and to be honest a part of me still struggles but I think that is to be expected as one makes the transistion.
I do fear more pain. It's just that I believe there is no way for me to believe in something I am no longer convinced of. In a way I guess you could say the world broke me and all I'm trying to do is piece myself back together. As you know fear leads to anger and anger to hatred and hatred to suffering....All my life I have felt nothing else and tried so hard to experience for even a single moment the opposite. You can imagine as being stranded in the lonely desert looking for a drop of water. Instead all you find is salt water.
Ra mentioned that this planet may seem negative but in fact most of its population is on its way towards the positive. I have felt that. I could never quite fully understand why people join a society. Being the outcast I have never really liked society as a whole. I can see that they do their best even in their distorted ways but when I compare myself to them I see that it is me who is overwhelmingly negative even though for a long time I have thought myself to be not.  As the transition towards 4th density positive increases you can actually see its effects. People are becoming more and more accepting unfourtunately for them it was all for nothing. This planet (surface at least) is on its way towards doom. Another 75k years of suffering on another mixed polarity planet for the majority of humans. I don't want that just to get to a place in the end with no suffering and the denial of STS-reality.
It is extremely difficult for me to explain but the way I see it in worlds such as these STS inevitably wins and rules and brings forth a albeit be it a very distorted order. I find that to be better than the Choas that is intended by the Creator,embraced and accepted by the STO-side.
I want to be in control of my destiny and I want to win, I don't want to suffer and I don't want to be a slave and yet I already am both of the latter things and I know that I will continue to be that in the negative hierarchy but at the very least I will have done something rather than wait endlessly for something to change or pray towards the all knowing Creator for something positive to happen in my life.  I really wish there was a way to do all that in the positive way but I have never seen that.
Faith is a kind of blind thing that no matter what happens you believe that the Creator has your best interests at heart. I can not and do not want to live that way. For me that is the way of endless and mostly pointless suffering. I have lost my faith in that and I don't want to participate any longer in that pointless suffering. I see it every day and most here do too. Good things happen to bad people and bad things to good people. Almost seems like a rule. I know that from the STO-side of things up there in heaven the angels say that the true riches lie in suffering but I never saw it that way.  STS at least uses that pain to establish more control and STO sees it as a way to learn about the distortions of man and nature. In essence both paths are essentially one and the same but I fear that is too much for my 3d density mind to understand with this being the density of choice.  
I have thought about the possibilty of being a wanderer. I have gone trough the questionaire in Carlas Book but I am still unsure. I think that that choice where one stand will reveal itself in the heart and for now I have made mine. I wonder what it feels like for the other people here? Have any of you ever felt the way I have and what came of it?
In a way I envy most people here. If you knew how easy it is nowadays to penetrate the veil you would have all done so already. I know Ra said that it is harder on the positive path at first but with the bans being lifted it is increasingly getting easier. Not to mention the etheric wave of energy that is already here waiting to be used. ( The cassiopeans mentioned that).  I have so much negative emotions, thoughts and feelings in me from years and years of suffering it is just easier to embrace that instead of doing a full reverse. That's what I believe. The irony is I believed I was on positive path without realizing I was becoming more and more the opposite. I became extremely depressed when I realized it and tried to change but I know its too late now.
If you take a really close look at Hitlers and Khans life you will see a lot of interesting things. The worst monsters are not born, they are made.

[KaliSouth]

  
All that may be so from an externalized standpoint, but there is also the option of focusing mainly on internal work.  In other words, just as one can focus the balance of one's STO efforts towards helping others externally or on inner work, those of the darker path have similar possibilities.  Ergo, committing mass atrocities is one way, and severe internal discipline is another.

Of course, one must concede that either of these can lead to complications in their own realm: imprisonment outwardly, insanity inwardly.  Everything comes with trade-offs, so it pays to choose wisely and act decisively.  What is it to choose wisely?  As mentioned above somewhere, it's to know and to harmonize with your sense of your own deep disposition.  To do otherwise is of questionable value, peregrine says.
  

This is very much true. I have chosen the latter. As expected that is much harder. I find the replies of the others very interesting. There can be no denial that STS is the path of that which is not. It is covered in lies but yet it is equally valid. My whole life I have been generally positive. Not because I wanted to but because I just was. This has led me to experience a great deal of pain and suffering which could have been avoided had I been a little more selfish. I find that if I'm suffering now it makes no difference on the path I'm on and that If I am on the STS path at least I get to experience the pleasure of power and conquest. Rather than being conquered by the negative feelings that accompany every day I will learn to discipline myself and control myself and more importantly control my fate.
I've been the outcast my whole life, I am going trough and have gone trough my fair share of trauma as many others have and eventually at some point I just fell apart. I could not bring my ideals into balance with the harsh reality. No matter how hard I believed in the way of love it never yieled me anything but more pain. The only reason I started to consider the negative path so late is that I had a great fear that perhaps I was never originally meant to be STS. Perhaps I came into this life with different expectations. I had a great deal of dreams about the world after but I lack the expertise to fully understand it.
In my view there is no way to win in this world without succumbing to STS. All my life experiences have proven me that. I have tried for a long time to believe otherwise and to be honest a part of me still struggles but I think that is to be expected as one makes the transistion.
I do fear more pain. It's just that I believe there is no way for me to believe in something I am no longer convinced of. In a way I guess you could say the world broke me and all I'm trying to do is piece myself back together. As you know fear leads to anger and anger to hatred and hatred to suffering....All my life I have felt nothing else and tried so hard to experience for even a single moment the opposite. You can imagine as being stranded in the lonely desert looking for a drop of water. Instead all you find is salt water.
Ra mentioned that this planet may seem negative but in fact most of its population is on its way towards the positive. I have felt that. I could never quite fully understand why people join a society. Being the outcast I have never really liked society as a whole. I can see that they do their best even in their distorted ways but when I compare myself to them I see that it is me who is overwhelmingly negative even though for a long time I have thought myself to be not.  As the transition towards 4th density positive increases you can actually see its effects. People are becoming more and more accepting unfourtunately for them it was all for nothing. This planet (surface at least) is on its way towards doom. Another 75k years of suffering on another mixed polarity planet for the majority of humans. I don't want that just to get to a place in the end with no suffering and the denial of STS-reality.
It is extremely difficult for me to explain but the way I see it in worlds such as these STS inevitably wins and rules and brings forth a albeit be it a very distorted order. I find that to be better than the Choas that is intended by the Creator,embraced and accepted by the STO-side.
I want to be in control of my destiny and I want to win, I don't want to suffer and I don't want to be a slave and yet I already am both of the latter things and I know that I will continue to be that in the negative hierarchy but at the very least I will have done something rather than wait endlessly for something to change or pray towards the all knowing Creator for something positive to happen in my life.  I really wish there was a way to do all that in the positive way but I have never seen that.
Faith is a kind of blind thing that no matter what happens you believe that the Creator has your best interests at heart. I can not and do not want to live that way. For me that is the way of endless and mostly pointless suffering. I have lost my faith in that and I don't want to participate any longer in that pointless suffering. I see it every day and most here do too. Good things happen to bad people and bad things to good people. Almost seems like a rule. I know that from the STO-side of things up there in heaven the angels say that the true riches lie in suffering but I never saw it that way.  STS at least uses that pain to establish more control and STO sees it as a way to learn about the distortions of man and nature. In essence both paths are essentially one and the same but I fear that is too much for my 3d density mind to understand with this being the density of choice.  
I have thought about the possibilty of being a wanderer. I have gone trough the questionaire in Carlas Book but I am still unsure. I think that that choice where one stand will reveal itself in the heart and for now I have made mine. I wonder what it feels like for the other people here? Have any of you ever felt the way I have and what came of it?
In a way I envy most people here. If you knew how easy it is nowadays to penetrate the veil you would have all done so already. I know Ra said that it is harder on the positive path at first but with the bans being lifted it is increasingly getting easier. Not to mention the etheric wave of energy that is already here waiting to be used. ( The cassiopeans mentioned that).  I have so much negative emotions, thoughts and feelings in me from years and years of suffering it is just easier to embrace that instead of doing a full reverse. That's what I believe. The irony is I believed I was on positive path without realizing I was becoming more and more the opposite. I became extremely depressed when I realized it and tried to change but I know its too late now.
If you take a really close look at Hitlers and Khans life you will see a lot of interesting things. The worst monsters are not born, they are made.

Your train of thought quite interesting. I find people for the most part to be quite silly, but I have made the choice to follow the STO path long before I knew about the Ra Material. It's more of a philosophy of "they know not what they do, so I can't hold it agains them" in regards to my observations of humans and their behaviour.

Perhaps your pre-incarnative choice was to suffer in order to find your way to the STS path. Others suffer to find their way to the STO path.

I don't enjoy watching the effects of STS entities actions, e.g. manipulation of people, but those who are manipulated also have to take personal responsibility for how they take in information and what they do with it.

Generally though, I would say that you are entitled to follow the path you wish to follow- it is your choice and you will have to live with it.

[Louisabell]

Hi throwaway. Sorry to hear you've had it so rough in life so far.

I think there's some confusion though. Having 'negative' emotions is not a sign of being on either path. Polarisation would mean channeling those negative emotions into either 1. a greater sense of acceptance or 2. a greater capacity/desire to control others. I don't think either path is neccessarily easier in obtaining freedom from painful emotions and mentations.

[Louisabell]

How do you perceive service to be? Is it necessarily the fulfillment of a request as it is requested, from another Self?

How do I perceive service? That is something I am currently questioning in myself, so maybe not a good time to ask. Where does inspiration end and manipulation begin? What is giving someone what they want versus giving them what they need? I just don't know. All I know is how to move towards honesty and trying not to control others.

The uses of creative love are subtle, and service to others has never been easy to penetrate. What seems to be of service is often not; what seems to be directly not of service sometimes is. What seems to be worth doing, may not be—and vice versa. Creative love has an infinite capacity and patience and may burn long after human energy has given out."

[Patrick]

...In my view there is no way to win in this world without succumbing to STS...

Ra explicitly told us exactly how to win this game.

https://www.lawofone.info/s/50#7

...This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.”...

But if you think it will be easier for you to win the game on the negative path instead, only you can know.  Maybe for some doing as Ra says here might actually be harder than going down the whole STS rabbit hole.

It's not something I can understand at the moment, I did not bring that understanding with me in this incarnation.

But right now, letting the melting influence of love have me, seems to be SO MUCH EASIER than what the negative path has to offer.

[Sacred Fool]

I have thought about the possibilty of being a wanderer. I have gone trough the questionaire in Carlas Book but I am still unsure. I think that that choice where one stand will reveal itself in the heart and for now I have made mine. I wonder what it feels like for the other people here? Have any of you ever felt the way I have and what came of it?
In a way I envy most people here.

I'm reminded of Ra's line about the picnic and how some prefer to play their games in the shadows and explore pain, etc.  This feels like a predilection of yours, however reluctant you've been to embrace it.  And yet you come to this website to share your feelings about it, seeking comfort and understanding.  It's as if you want both, triumph and caring.  Surrendering your pride hurts too much and yet soft connection feels good.

Have I ever felt this way?  Not precisely, but I recognize some of the hallmarks.  You might give this Q'uo session a squint, 14 April 2006.  The questions were posed to speak to those whose hearts are muted, but whose awareness is otherwise keen.  It might help you cut through some of the fog surrounding you in that it reframes the situation by looking at your journey in terms of consciousness.  That is, it shifts the framing away from a self-vs.-environment construct, and you might find that a useful switch for a little while.


BTW, I wonder if you're only one here who "envies most people here?"  We're all just doing the best we can under adverse conditions, in my view, and I can't say that I envy that, exactly.  Or, maybe you're not referring to our condition, but to....what, would you say?  Is it that we are not burdened with the sense of fateful doom which is haunting you?
  

[Dtris]

  
All that may be so from an externalized standpoint, but there is also the option of focusing mainly on internal work.  In other words, just as one can focus the balance of one's STO efforts towards helping others externally or on inner work, those of the darker path have similar possibilities.  Ergo, committing mass atrocities is one way, and severe internal discipline is another.

Of course, one must concede that either of these can lead to complications in their own realm: imprisonment outwardly, insanity inwardly.  Everything comes with trade-offs, so it pays to choose wisely and act decisively.  What is it to choose wisely?  As mentioned above somewhere, it's to know and to harmonize with your sense of your own deep disposition.  To do otherwise is of questionable value, peregrine says.
  

This is very much true. I have chosen the latter. As expected that is much harder. I find the replies of the others very interesting. There can be no denial that STS is the path of that which is not. It is covered in lies but yet it is equally valid. My whole life I have been generally positive. Not because I wanted to but because I just was. This has led me to experience a great deal of pain and suffering which could have been avoided had I been a little more selfish. I find that if I'm suffering now it makes no difference on the path I'm on and that If I am on the STS path at least I get to experience the pleasure of power and conquest. Rather than being conquered by the negative feelings that accompany every day I will learn to discipline myself and control myself and more importantly control my fate.

You say you were generally positive and would have suffered less had you been a little more selfish. This sounds like you are using positive in common parlance and not in the meaning of the Law of One and polarization. Western society greatly overemphasizes "positive" emotions.

Everyone suffers. That is part of being alive. No choice will change that, it is inevitable. Those who are naive or gullible may suffer more at the hands of others. Some people wish to say no but feel obligated to say yes to everything. They get taken advantage of and treated like a doormat, building anger and resentment the whole time.

Power and Conquest can certainly be pleasurable. However that also risks being powerless and conquered. Is that a risk you want to take?

You are framing the negative feelings as something which will either conquer you or you need to conquer. This is certainly a STS framing, but more importantly is that framing intentional or is that because you feel it is the only way? Do you know that STS individuals must also be disciplined and control themselves as well? Being a master of your own fate is also not limited to STS. Many people who provide tremendous service to others are only in that position because they are masters of their own fate.

I've been the outcast my whole life, I am going trough and have gone trough my fair share of trauma as many others have and eventually at some point I just fell apart. I could not bring my ideals into balance with the harsh reality. No matter how hard I believed in the way of love it never yieled me anything but more pain. The only reason I started to consider the negative path so late is that I had a great fear that perhaps I was never originally meant to be STS. Perhaps I came into this life with different expectations. I had a great deal of dreams about the world after but I lack the expertise to fully understand it.

I think you will find plenty of outcasts here. IMO it is much more likely for a STO individual to be outcast than a STS. Part of being STS is being very good at adapting to the expectations of others. Read the 48 Laws of Power if you want a better idea. Iirc one of them is "behave as others expect, but remain yourself". Or something similar. This is innate to those who pursue power IME, they naturally adapt to fit into any group they need to.

In my view there is no way to win in this world without succumbing to STS. All my life experiences have proven me that. I have tried for a long time to believe otherwise and to be honest a part of me still struggles but I think that is to be expected as one makes the transistion.
I do fear more pain. It's just that I believe there is no way for me to believe in something I am no longer convinced of. In a way I guess you could say the world broke me and all I'm trying to do is piece myself back together. As you know fear leads to anger and anger to hatred and hatred to suffering....All my life I have felt nothing else and tried so hard to experience for even a single moment the opposite. You can imagine as being stranded in the lonely desert looking for a drop of water. Instead all you find is salt water.

How do you win in the world? What does that look like? Life isn't a game to be won, it is an experience to be lived. If you have been trying to "win" at life, then what have you tried? What have you done? Where have you been and who have you been around that you believe in this definition of winning?

If life can be won, then You get to determine what winning is. Not society, not your family, friends, or anyone else.

Ra mentioned that this planet may seem negative but in fact most of its population is on its way towards the positive. I have felt that. I could never quite fully understand why people join a society. Being the outcast I have never really liked society as a whole. I can see that they do their best even in their distorted ways but when I compare myself to them I see that it is me who is overwhelmingly negative even though for a long time I have thought myself to be not.  As the transition towards 4th density positive increases you can actually see its effects. People are becoming more and more accepting unfourtunately for them it was all for nothing. This planet (surface at least) is on its way towards doom. Another 75k years of suffering on another mixed polarity planet for the majority of humans. I don't want that just to get to a place in the end with no suffering and the denial of STS-reality.
It is extremely difficult for me to explain but the way I see it in worlds such as these STS inevitably wins and rules and brings forth a albeit be it a very distorted order. I find that to be better than the Choas that is intended by the Creator,embraced and accepted by the STO-side.

Society is not really something you choose to join. It is something you are born into and you can choose to withdraw from as you get older. This has been the choice of mystics and sages thru out the ages.

Once gain you say that you are seeing society as being positive while you are overwhelmingly negative. Once again this feels more like the colloquial usage of the meaning of positive and negative emotion and not the Law of One polarity usage. I agree that some levels of society are becoming more accepting, but there is also less acceptance in others. Have you considered that what you see as being this positive emotional drama that most people are showing the world might be just a front? With the rise of social media it has incentivized many people to play a game of projecting their best side to the world. Whether that be in looks, wealth, fancy food pictures, etc. Similarly the news has always been incentivized to sell bad news, if it bleeds it leads so they say.

You say the last 75k years was all for nothing. Why? Even if the cycle needs repeating for the majority of humans on earth so what? Lack of a choice is still a choice. If they desire to continue the illusion for another cycle then good for them.

Why do you think there is no suffering in 4th density? What is STS reality and why do you think it would be denied? What part of STO 4th density are you intellectually rejecting? I know there are parts I am not so keen on myself.

I want to be in control of my destiny and I want to win, I don't want to suffer and I don't want to be a slave and yet I already am both of the latter things and I know that I will continue to be that in the negative hierarchy but at the very least I will have done something rather than wait endlessly for something to change or pray towards the all knowing Creator for something positive to happen in my life.  I really wish there was a way to do all that in the positive way but I have never seen that.

You seem to have a misconception about STO in thinking that it is passive acceptance of everything going on and that if you just think happy thoughts everything will change for the better. I understand the thought since it is peddled by so many new age snake oil salesmen but frankly that is a bunch of crap.

If you want to be in control of your destiny then be so. There is nothing positive or negative IMO about that. If you feel you are a slave then stop being one. Only you can enslave yourself. There is a reason native americans were not taken as slaves, they refused to submit. They were always looking to escape, or kill their captors, even the children.

The positive way of getting something positive to happen in your life is to go out and do positive things. It takes discipline and work, just like the negative does. There is a saying that God only helps those who help themselves. I don't care how devout you are, if you just sit around waiting for god to save you, or heal you, or fix your life, it will never happen. You must get up and fix your life, heal yourself, and be your own savior. You are the creator, whether STS or STO that does not change.

Faith is a kind of blind thing that no matter what happens you believe that the Creator has your best interests at heart. I can not and do not want to live that way. For me that is the way of endless and mostly pointless suffering. I have lost my faith in that and I don't want to participate any longer in that pointless suffering. I see it every day and most here do too. Good things happen to bad people and bad things to good people. Almost seems like a rule. I know that from the STO-side of things up there in heaven the angels say that the true riches lie in suffering but I never saw it that way.  STS at least uses that pain to establish more control and STO sees it as a way to learn about the distortions of man and nature. In essence both paths are essentially one and the same but I fear that is too much for my 3d density mind to understand with this being the density of choice.  

Who told you the Creator has your best interests at heart? In religious philosophy this is called Omnibenevolence, the belief that God is all Good. This concept by itself has pissed off and turned more people away from God then just about anything else I have seen. The philosophers have jumped thru every hoop imaginable to try to rationailize why God lets good people suffer, why children starve and die, why genocides occur and all the other evils in the world.

You are the Creator. So is everything you see. Everything that exists is the Creator. All the evil and all the good are also the Creator. Suffering is being created every moment by ourselves. It is inevitable. It is up to each person to experience that suffering and learn from it, and to put that in perspective. You create your own reality. One of the ways this is done is by your own perception. What you put your attention on is what you will see and experience. If you focus on suffering you will see it everywhere and experience it everywhere. If you focus on something else you will see and experience that as well. It is like getting a new car and all of the sudden you see that same model everywhere. If you want to experience something else you have to seek it, then you will find it.

I have thought about the possibilty of being a wanderer. I have gone trough the questionaire in Carlas Book but I am still unsure. I think that that choice where one stand will reveal itself in the heart and for now I have made mine. I wonder what it feels like for the other people here? Have any of you ever felt the way I have and what came of it?
In a way I envy most people here. If you knew how easy it is nowadays to penetrate the veil you would have all done so already. I know Ra said that it is harder on the positive path at first but with the bans being lifted it is increasingly getting easier. Not to mention the etheric wave of energy that is already here waiting to be used. ( The cassiopeans mentioned that).  I have so much negative emotions, thoughts and feelings in me from years and years of suffering it is just easier to embrace that instead of doing a full reverse. That's what I believe. The irony is I believed I was on positive path without realizing I was becoming more and more the opposite. I became extremely depressed when I realized it and tried to change but I know its too late now.
If you take a really close look at Hitlers and Khans life you will see a lot of interesting things. The worst monsters are not born, they are made.

I am almost certain I am not a wanderer. I have also felt very similar to you at times. I am not sure why you would envy anyone here. I myself just this year dragged myself out of a 10 year or so depression. I do mean dragged myself in a fairly literal way.

You sound like you have been depressed for a long time too, and are more sick of the world and sick of life beating you down than you actually want to be STS. That is just my take after reading your posts. If I am right then I suspect you will not find your end to suffering in that path either.

At the beginning of this year I just got tired of feeling nothing. I couldn't even remember what it felt like to be happy, or much of anything else. I was tired of escaping life. I read probably 300 novels a year for several years straight. Ostensibly since I enjoy reading, but I realized I was just escaping life. Just thru a book instead of a drug. My only real drug was nicotine and alcohol. I smoked hookah for years until I started vaping. A nicotine rush can be quite enjoyable when you feel nothing else. I would smoke so much I would get a headache every day from burning out the nicotine receptors in my brain.

So I revisited the early material for this forum. The Channeling archives and Hatonn kept saying meditate. Over and over and over again. I have done meditation off and on for decades and have a very skilled teacher as well, but I had never been able to keep it up for long. It is hard to sit and face yourself. But I was tired of being tired, tired of feeling nothing, tired or pretending to be ok. So I started meditating every night. Just a couple minutes at first. 3-5 minutes. Then longer as it went. Every time I wanted to stop I would tell myself I can just do it for a few seconds. Then once I had started I would go awhile.

After meditating for a couple months I quit vaping and smoking. I knew it was bad, I was not enjoying getting bronchitis once or twice a year either. I just put it down and quit. I kept meditating and when things are particularly hard I ask for help. There is help out there for you too. I know because I have felt it. You are loved. Its up to you what you want to do. But it isn't easy and it takes work. I am finally feeling things again, thanks to Ra and Hatonn and the Carla and Jim and Don and all the others, as well as my teacher, and friends and family. Whatever you decide, I hope you succeed.

[flofrog]

BTW, I wonder if you're only one here who "envies most people here?"  We're all just doing the best we can under adverse conditions, in my view, and I can't say that I envy that, exactly.  Or, maybe you're not referring to our condition, but to....what, would you say?  Is it that we are not burdened with the sense of fateful doom which is haunting you?
  

Your last question is so interesting , peregrine.

Throwawaynegative132, if such is the case for you, you have all my sympathy.

We all of us, at some point feel this sense of doom. Not easy. I found that if I start to feel gratitude for the very small things offered, this feeling starts to lift.

[Sacred Fool]

There is a reason native americans were not taken as slaves, they refused to submit. They were always looking to escape, or kill their captors, even the children.

One small historical note: many First Nations tribes commonly raided one another and took slaves.  Of course, they had no plantation system and commerce, so the scale was personal and quite moderate compared to mercantile slavery.


But, to your larger effort, you give a good listing of various catalyst which would upset any sensible being, truly.  This drives you to look inside and you arrive some particular conclusions which lead you to search for the sun behind the clouds.  But the same stimulus leads others to seek even darker clouds. 
 
William Blake:
Both read the Bible day and night,
But thou read'st black where I read white.

Some chase violent storms, some seek beautiful sunsets.  One thing I'll say for our disguised friend, he comes across as a sincere seeker, and I appreciate that.  The essence of sincerity is to be what one is, to act according to what one knows within, is it not?
  

[unity100]

.... I wrote a whole thread only for it to be lost when my computer crashed. Anyways, throwaway account...I don't want anyone who knows me too see this and pretty much just want to hear people's opinion whether or not this is a viable choice....wish I could have said more but I'm mentally too tired to write down all of my thoughts again

Just go join a religious cult (Jehovah Witnesses or some Evangelist American groups are good candidates), an extremist right wing group, or a major corporation (better American, better one of those investment funds which plunder everyone and everything).

You will have your negative polarity experience so fast and so hard before you can even spell 'negative'.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

  
All that may be so from an externalized standpoint, but there is also the option of focusing mainly on internal work.  In other words, just as one can focus the balance of one's STO efforts towards helping others externally or on inner work, those of the darker path have similar possibilities.  Ergo, committing mass atrocities is one way, and severe internal discipline is another.

Of course, one must concede that either of these can lead to complications in their own realm: imprisonment outwardly, insanity inwardly.  Everything comes with trade-offs, so it pays to choose wisely and act decisively.  What is it to choose wisely?  As mentioned above somewhere, it's to know and to harmonize with your sense of your own deep disposition.  To do otherwise is of questionable value, peregrine says.
  

This is very much true. I have chosen the latter. As expected that is much harder. I find the replies of the others very interesting. There can be no denial that STS is the path of that which is not. It is covered in lies but yet it is equally valid. My whole life I have been generally positive. Not because I wanted to but because I just was. This has led me to experience a great deal of pain and suffering which could have been avoided had I been a little more selfish. I find that if I'm suffering now it makes no difference on the path I'm on and that If I am on the STS path at least I get to experience the pleasure of power and conquest. Rather than being conquered by the negative feelings that accompany every day I will learn to discipline myself and control myself and more importantly control my fate.
I've been the outcast my whole life, I am going trough and have gone trough my fair share of trauma as many others have and eventually at some point I just fell apart. I could not bring my ideals into balance with the harsh reality. No matter how hard I believed in the way of love it never yieled me anything but more pain. The only reason I started to consider the negative path so late is that I had a great fear that perhaps I was never originally meant to be STS. Perhaps I came into this life with different expectations. I had a great deal of dreams about the world after but I lack the expertise to fully understand it.
In my view there is no way to win in this world without succumbing to STS. All my life experiences have proven me that. I have tried for a long time to believe otherwise and to be honest a part of me still struggles but I think that is to be expected as one makes the transistion.
I do fear more pain. It's just that I believe there is no way for me to believe in something I am no longer convinced of. In a way I guess you could say the world broke me and all I'm trying to do is piece myself back together. As you know fear leads to anger and anger to hatred and hatred to suffering....All my life I have felt nothing else and tried so hard to experience for even a single moment the opposite. You can imagine as being stranded in the lonely desert looking for a drop of water. Instead all you find is salt water.
Ra mentioned that this planet may seem negative but in fact most of its population is on its way towards the positive. I have felt that. I could never quite fully understand why people join a society. Being the outcast I have never really liked society as a whole. I can see that they do their best even in their distorted ways but when I compare myself to them I see that it is me who is overwhelmingly negative even though for a long time I have thought myself to be not.  As the transition towards 4th density positive increases you can actually see its effects. People are becoming more and more accepting unfourtunately for them it was all for nothing. This planet (surface at least) is on its way towards doom. Another 75k years of suffering on another mixed polarity planet for the majority of humans. I don't want that just to get to a place in the end with no suffering and the denial of STS-reality.
It is extremely difficult for me to explain but the way I see it in worlds such as these STS inevitably wins and rules and brings forth a albeit be it a very distorted order. I find that to be better than the Choas that is intended by the Creator,embraced and accepted by the STO-side.
I want to be in control of my destiny and I want to win, I don't want to suffer and I don't want to be a slave and yet I already am both of the latter things and I know that I will continue to be that in the negative hierarchy but at the very least I will have done something rather than wait endlessly for something to change or pray towards the all knowing Creator for something positive to happen in my life.  I really wish there was a way to do all that in the positive way but I have never seen that.
Faith is a kind of blind thing that no matter what happens you believe that the Creator has your best interests at heart. I can not and do not want to live that way. For me that is the way of endless and mostly pointless suffering. I have lost my faith in that and I don't want to participate any longer in that pointless suffering. I see it every day and most here do too. Good things happen to bad people and bad things to good people. Almost seems like a rule. I know that from the STO-side of things up there in heaven the angels say that the true riches lie in suffering but I never saw it that way.  STS at least uses that pain to establish more control and STO sees it as a way to learn about the distortions of man and nature. In essence both paths are essentially one and the same but I fear that is too much for my 3d density mind to understand with this being the density of choice.  
I have thought about the possibilty of being a wanderer. I have gone trough the questionaire in Carlas Book but I am still unsure. I think that that choice where one stand will reveal itself in the heart and for now I have made mine. I wonder what it feels like for the other people here? Have any of you ever felt the way I have and what came of it?
In a way I envy most people here. If you knew how easy it is nowadays to penetrate the veil you would have all done so already. I know Ra said that it is harder on the positive path at first but with the bans being lifted it is increasingly getting easier. Not to mention the etheric wave of energy that is already here waiting to be used. ( The cassiopeans mentioned that).  I have so much negative emotions, thoughts and feelings in me from years and years of suffering it is just easier to embrace that instead of doing a full reverse. That's what I believe. The irony is I believed I was on positive path without realizing I was becoming more and more the opposite. I became extremely depressed when I realized it and tried to change but I know its too late now.
If you take a really close look at Hitlers and Khans life you will see a lot of interesting things. The worst monsters are not born, they are made.

There is a lot to say and I don't want to cover everything that you wrote here. I also feel you have legitimate concerns. No one wants to suffer but, not everyone wants to do whatever it takes to avoid it either. The positive is not a path where you can't have anything you desire and live as a pauper the rest of your life powerless against the shanging scenery, but you do have to be conscientious of your dealings with #1 yourself and #2 the other self which requires honesty, mindfulness (which is difficult to do in our world so requires concentration), and dedication to doing the right thing not because you are somehow forced but because it is in your heart to do. If loving another inspite of their shortcomings is difficult, well, it is difficult, but the power in forgiveness is immence as it fortifies your Will thus it creates a pattern of movement.
I feel as though you are hurt and somewhat bewildered by the behavior of this world because of it profound levels of icy coldness. Neither path is easy. The STO people in your life will support you, guide you and love you; while you will have no friends upon the path of separation; it will further intensify your lonliness and the feelings of being hurt by the most savage of individuals.
Either path will take you home, ok?

[BrotherInWaiting]

Perhaps many angels reach the end of their path and, looking back, realise that they only explored half of the 'palace' they were born into. Rather then move out to start their own heavenly kingdom, they turn back and 'fall' so to speak, exploring a bit longer while they're still there.

[Sacred Fool]

...This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.”...

But right now, letting the melting influence of love have me, seems to be SO MUCH EASIER than what the negative path has to offer.

Maybe, maybe not.  I love you above can mean, "I wish you to be so much more beautiful than you are now.  Just allow me to reform you in the image that pleases me."

Chances are, Patrick, you live in either an urban or suburban area which was utterly denatured to create housing for you.  You would be the beneficiary, in that case, of the prostituting of nature in a STS manner, would you not?  Is that not easy for you?  Would it not be easy, as well, to go one step further, then another step and another towards lovingly reforming your environment, and then maybe your social setting and so forth to suit your personal needs?

I'm, of course, not typing this to pester you, but to make the point that the "left hand path" can really be about as close to us as our left hand, as it were.  Adherents needn't all be thugs; some would be far more "civilized."  And this can make the path "easier," to be sure.
   

[Sacred Fool]

Perhaps many angels reach the end of their path and, looking back, realise that they only explored half of the 'palace' they were born into. Rather then move out to start their own heavenly kingdom, they turn back and 'fall' so to speak, exploring a bit longer while they're still there.

When you put it like that, it seems downright wasteful to use half the thing and throw the rest away, doesn't it?
   

[Louisabell]

Ok - serious question ... doesn't anyone think that there may be some "trickery afoot" when it comes to progressing on the STS path?

Example - you live your 3D existence busting your butt to build up this godly ego, only then to graduate as a pleb into a 4D negative social-memory-complex with a 5D entity at its head. You go from being Genghis Khan, greatest warlord that ever lived, to ... a shipping clerk  

11.15 ... Ra: I am Ra. ... He is, as you would term this entity, a shipping clerk.

Like it has to be some kind of joke right?

Is all this talk of "well the STS path is technically a path back to the Creator" akin to also saying "all infinite parts of the Creator will coalesce back into the whole eventually"? Kind of like we're philosophically zooming out here so very very far to the point that it doesn't have that much relevance to 3D entities discussing whether the STS path is a viable choice in the here and now? Maybe not screwing with your Karma is your best bet, whoever you are, considering we're literally swimming in it.

And yes, I admit to totally projecting my own fears onto this equation. I hate the concept of a STS path, I wish it was never mentioned in the LOO, which was supposed to be a philosophy of unity, not duality. All this focus on duality has given me this ridiculous irrational fear that I'll somehow graduate to 4D negative, unwittingly. I have no idea why I can't shake this irrational fear, as I actually do really love people, that's never been all that hard for me.

[Patrick]

Yes Peregrine, we collectively created a society that is based a great deal on negative teachings. I take my share of responsibility and consequences for it. I live indeed in such a neighbourhood.

I love my house, I thank the Universe for it. I thank all the resources used to build it that sacrificed themselves and those to make space for it. Their opinion was not requested since I did not build it myself, but we can always act retroactively in such matters.

But if all of us were to put in practice what Ra is suggesting, our way of life would change so much that within a couple generations the way we house ourselves would completely shift.

I do not live in that future world, but I do speak to how we can get there if we want to. I often talk about the monetary system and all other subjects that requires our attention in shifting to the positive.

All those perceived issues would all completely melt away in the influence of Love if enough of us were to follow Ra's advise.

Maybe in the end this is as hard to do as it is to enslave the whole world instead?

[throwawaynegative132]

I have thought about the possibilty of being a wanderer. I have gone trough the questionaire in Carlas Book but I am still unsure. I think that that choice where one stand will reveal itself in the heart and for now I have made mine. I wonder what it feels like for the other people here? Have any of you ever felt the way I have and what came of it?
In a way I envy most people here.

I'm reminded of Ra's line about the picnic and how some prefer to play their games in the shadows and explore pain, etc.  This feels like a predilection of yours, however reluctant you've been to embrace it.  And yet you come to this website to share your feelings about it, seeking comfort and understanding.  It's as if you want both, triumph and caring.  Surrendering your pride hurts too much and yet soft connection feels good.

Have I ever felt this way?  Not precisely, but I recognize some of the hallmarks.  You might give this Q'uo session a squint, 14 April 2006.  The questions were posed to speak to those whose hearts are muted, but whose awareness is otherwise keen.  It might help you cut through some of the fog surrounding you in that it reframes the situation by looking at your journey in terms of consciousness.  That is, it shifts the framing away from a self-vs.-environment construct, and you might find that a useful switch for a little while.


BTW, I wonder if you're only one here who "envies most people here?"  We're all just doing the best we can under adverse conditions, in my view, and I can't say that I envy that, exactly.  Or, maybe you're not referring to our condition, but to....what, would you say?  Is it that we are not burdened with the sense of fateful doom which is haunting you?
  

Knowing that the end is near I just fear not making the harvest and not knowing exactly how much time is left just increases that fear. I meditate sometimes not regularly because of all the negative emotions and thoughts. I know I have a lot to work on but I feel that most here don't have that. I sometimes notice my psychic powers increasing a bit and then falling and my mind breaking apart and I can't help but wonder that for most here it would be very very easy to gain that psychic power. It is all a matter of time spent in meditation and intensity. In a way meditation is like weightlifting and with a broken back it takes time to heal and a lot of time. I wish I didn't have to heal and could just skip that for I fear that in doing so I miss out on the harvest. The events on this planet are accelerating and with everything being in flux it is nearly impossible to make out a timeline. It could be this decade, the next five years or 3 centuries. Who knows really...
I have severe mental illness. I guess its probably a negative entity attachment or something like that. I think most here don't have that so they have it a lot easier. That's what I think. I might be wrong given that a lot seem to go trough a very harsh dark knight of the soul or something in that direction.

All that may be so from an externalized standpoint, but there is also the option of focusing mainly on internal work. In other words, just as one can focus the balance of one's STO efforts towards helping others externally or on inner work, those of the darker path have similar possibilities. Ergo, committing mass atrocities is one way, and severe internal discipline is another.

Of course, one must concede that either of these can lead to complications in their own realm: imprisonment outwardly, insanity inwardly. Everything comes with trade-offs, so it pays to choose wisely and act decisively. What is it to choose wisely? As mentioned above somewhere, it's to know and to harmonize with your sense of your own deep disposition. To do otherwise is of questionable value, peregrine says.

This is very much true. I have chosen the latter. As expected that is much harder. I find the replies of the others very interesting. There can be no denial that STS is the path of that which is not. It is covered in lies but yet it is equally valid. My whole life I have been generally positive. Not because I wanted to but because I just was. This has led me to experience a great deal of pain and suffering which could have been avoided had I been a little more selfish. I find that if I'm suffering now it makes no difference on the path I'm on and that If I am on the STS path at least I get to experience the pleasure of power and conquest. Rather than being conquered by the negative feelings that accompany every day I will learn to discipline myself and control myself and more importantly control my fate.

You say you were generally positive and would have suffered less had you been a little more selfish. This sounds like you are using positive in common parlance and not in the meaning of the Law of One and polarization. Western society greatly overemphasizes "positive" emotions.

Everyone suffers. That is part of being alive. No choice will change that, it is inevitable. Those who are naive or gullible may suffer more at the hands of others. Some people wish to say no but feel obligated to say yes to everything. They get taken advantage of and treated like a doormat, building anger and resentment the whole time.

Power and Conquest can certainly be pleasurable. However that also risks being powerless and conquered. Is that a risk you want to take?

You are framing the negative feelings as something which will either conquer you or you need to conquer. This is certainly a STS framing, but more importantly is that framing intentional or is that because you feel it is the only way? Do you know that STS individuals must also be disciplined and control themselves as well? Being a master of your own fate is also not limited to STS. Many people who provide tremendous service to others are only in that position because they are masters of their own fate.

I've been the outcast my whole life, I am going trough and have gone trough my fair share of trauma as many others have and eventually at some point I just fell apart. I could not bring my ideals into balance with the harsh reality. No matter how hard I believed in the way of love it never yieled me anything but more pain. The only reason I started to consider the negative path so late is that I had a great fear that perhaps I was never originally meant to be STS. Perhaps I came into this life with different expectations. I had a great deal of dreams about the world after but I lack the expertise to fully understand it.

I think you will find plenty of outcasts here. IMO it is much more likely for a STO individual to be outcast than a STS. Part of being STS is being very good at adapting to the expectations of others. Read the 48 Laws of Power if you want a better idea. Iirc one of them is "behave as others expect, but remain yourself". Or something similar. This is innate to those who pursue power IME, they naturally adapt to fit into any group they need to.

In my view there is no way to win in this world without succumbing to STS. All my life experiences have proven me that. I have tried for a long time to believe otherwise and to be honest a part of me still struggles but I think that is to be expected as one makes the transistion.
I do fear more pain. It's just that I believe there is no way for me to believe in something I am no longer convinced of. In a way I guess you could say the world broke me and all I'm trying to do is piece myself back together. As you know fear leads to anger and anger to hatred and hatred to suffering....All my life I have felt nothing else and tried so hard to experience for even a single moment the opposite. You can imagine as being stranded in the lonely desert looking for a drop of water. Instead all you find is salt water.

How do you win in the world? What does that look like? Life isn't a game to be won, it is an experience to be lived. If you have been trying to "win" at life, then what have you tried? What have you done? Where have you been and who have you been around that you believe in this definition of winning?

If life can be won, then You get to determine what winning is. Not society, not your family, friends, or anyone else.

Ra mentioned that this planet may seem negative but in fact most of its population is on its way towards the positive. I have felt that. I could never quite fully understand why people join a society. Being the outcast I have never really liked society as a whole. I can see that they do their best even in their distorted ways but when I compare myself to them I see that it is me who is overwhelmingly negative even though for a long time I have thought myself to be not. As the transition towards 4th density positive increases you can actually see its effects. People are becoming more and more accepting unfourtunately for them it was all for nothing. This planet (surface at least) is on its way towards doom. Another 75k years of suffering on another mixed polarity planet for the majority of humans. I don't want that just to get to a place in the end with no suffering and the denial of STS-reality.
It is extremely difficult for me to explain but the way I see it in worlds such as these STS inevitably wins and rules and brings forth a albeit be it a very distorted order. I find that to be better than the Choas that is intended by the Creator,embraced and accepted by the STO-side.

Society is not really something you choose to join. It is something you are born into and you can choose to withdraw from as you get older. This has been the choice of mystics and sages thru out the ages.

Once gain you say that you are seeing society as being positive while you are overwhelmingly negative. Once again this feels more like the colloquial usage of the meaning of positive and negative emotion and not the Law of One polarity usage. I agree that some levels of society are becoming more accepting, but there is also less acceptance in others. Have you considered that what you see as being this positive emotional drama that most people are showing the world might be just a front? With the rise of social media it has incentivized many people to play a game of projecting their best side to the world. Whether that be in looks, wealth, fancy food pictures, etc. Similarly the news has always been incentivized to sell bad news, if it bleeds it leads so they say.

You say the last 75k years was all for nothing. Why? Even if the cycle needs repeating for the majority of humans on earth so what? Lack of a choice is still a choice. If they desire to continue the illusion for another cycle then good for them.

Why do you think there is no suffering in 4th density? What is STS reality and why do you think it would be denied? What part of STO 4th density are you intellectually rejecting? I know there are parts I am not so keen on myself.

I want to be in control of my destiny and I want to win, I don't want to suffer and I don't want to be a slave and yet I already am both of the latter things and I know that I will continue to be that in the negative hierarchy but at the very least I will have done something rather than wait endlessly for something to change or pray towards the all knowing Creator for something positive to happen in my life. I really wish there was a way to do all that in the positive way but I have never seen that.

You seem to have a misconception about STO in thinking that it is passive acceptance of everything going on and that if you just think happy thoughts everything will change for the better. I understand the thought since it is peddled by so many new age snake oil salesmen but frankly that is a bunch of crap.

If you want to be in control of your destiny then be so. There is nothing positive or negative IMO about that. If you feel you are a slave then stop being one. Only you can enslave yourself. There is a reason native americans were not taken as slaves, they refused to submit. They were always looking to escape, or kill their captors, even the children.

The positive way of getting something positive to happen in your life is to go out and do positive things. It takes discipline and work, just like the negative does. There is a saying that God only helps those who help themselves. I don't care how devout you are, if you just sit around waiting for god to save you, or heal you, or fix your life, it will never happen. You must get up and fix your life, heal yourself, and be your own savior. You are the creator, whether STS or STO that does not change.

Faith is a kind of blind thing that no matter what happens you believe that the Creator has your best interests at heart. I can not and do not want to live that way. For me that is the way of endless and mostly pointless suffering. I have lost my faith in that and I don't want to participate any longer in that pointless suffering. I see it every day and most here do too. Good things happen to bad people and bad things to good people. Almost seems like a rule. I know that from the STO-side of things up there in heaven the angels say that the true riches lie in suffering but I never saw it that way. STS at least uses that pain to establish more control and STO sees it as a way to learn about the distortions of man and nature. In essence both paths are essentially one and the same but I fear that is too much for my 3d density mind to understand with this being the density of choice.

Who told you the Creator has your best interests at heart? In religious philosophy this is called Omnibenevolence, the belief that God is all Good. This concept by itself has pissed off and turned more people away from God then just about anything else I have seen. The philosophers have jumped thru every hoop imaginable to try to rationailize why God lets good people suffer, why children starve and die, why genocides occur and all the other evils in the world.

You are the Creator. So is everything you see. Everything that exists is the Creator. All the evil and all the good are also the Creator. Suffering is being created every moment by ourselves. It is inevitable. It is up to each person to experience that suffering and learn from it, and to put that in perspective. You create your own reality. One of the ways this is done is by your own perception. What you put your attention on is what you will see and experience. If you focus on suffering you will see it everywhere and experience it everywhere. If you focus on something else you will see and experience that as well. It is like getting a new car and all of the sudden you see that same model everywhere. If you want to experience something else you have to seek it, then you will find it.

I have thought about the possibilty of being a wanderer. I have gone trough the questionaire in Carlas Book but I am still unsure. I think that that choice where one stand will reveal itself in the heart and for now I have made mine. I wonder what it feels like for the other people here? Have any of you ever felt the way I have and what came of it?
In a way I envy most people here. If you knew how easy it is nowadays to penetrate the veil you would have all done so already. I know Ra said that it is harder on the positive path at first but with the bans being lifted it is increasingly getting easier. Not to mention the etheric wave of energy that is already here waiting to be used. ( The cassiopeans mentioned that). I have so much negative emotions, thoughts and feelings in me from years and years of suffering it is just easier to embrace that instead of doing a full reverse. That's what I believe. The irony is I believed I was on positive path without realizing I was becoming more and more the opposite. I became extremely depressed when I realized it and tried to change but I know its too late now.
If you take a really close look at Hitlers and Khans life you will see a lot of interesting things. The worst monsters are not born, they are made.

I am almost certain I am not a wanderer. I have also felt very similar to you at times. I am not sure why you would envy anyone here. I myself just this year dragged myself out of a 10 year or so depression. I do mean dragged myself in a fairly literal way.

You sound like you have been depressed for a long time too, and are more sick of the world and sick of life beating you down than you actually want to be STS. That is just my take after reading your posts. If I am right then I suspect you will not find your end to suffering in that path either.

At the beginning of this year I just got tired of feeling nothing. I couldn't even remember what it felt like to be happy, or much of anything else. I was tired of escaping life. I read probably 300 novels a year for several years straight. Ostensibly since I enjoy reading, but I realized I was just escaping life. Just thru a book instead of a drug. My only real drug was nicotine and alcohol. I smoked hookah for years until I started vaping. A nicotine rush can be quite enjoyable when you feel nothing else. I would smoke so much I would get a headache every day from burning out the nicotine receptors in my brain.

So I revisited the early material for this forum. The Channeling archives and Hatonn kept saying meditate. Over and over and over again. I have done meditation off and on for decades and have a very skilled teacher as well, but I had never been able to keep it up for long. It is hard to sit and face yourself. But I was tired of being tired, tired of feeling nothing, tired or pretending to be ok. So I started meditating every night. Just a couple minutes at first. 3-5 minutes. Then longer as it went. Every time I wanted to stop I would tell myself I can just do it for a few seconds. Then once I had started I would go awhile.

After meditating for a couple months I quit vaping and smoking. I knew it was bad, I was not enjoying getting bronchitis once or twice a year either. I just put it down and quit. I kept meditating and when things are particularly hard I ask for help. There is help out there for you too. I know because I have felt it. You are loved. Its up to you what you want to do. But it isn't easy and it takes work. I am finally feeling things again, thanks to Ra and Hatonn and the Carla and Jim and Don and all the others, as well as my teacher, and friends and family. Whatever you decide, I hope you succeed.

You are mostly correct. I am sick of this world and confused. I haven't decided yet.. For the moment I'm just trying to find the right path. Thank you.

Perhaps many angels reach the end of their path and, looking back, realise that they only explored half of the 'palace' they were born into. Rather then move out to start their own heavenly kingdom, they turn back and 'fall' so to speak, exploring a bit longer while they're still there.

Here is a quote from llresearch:
Naturally, you have emphasized those parts of your personality which seem good to you. Yet those sides of the personality which seem dark are just as worthy, and just as worthy of respect, shall we say. They are a part of you and they need to be loved and honored. And this is where you come into accepting yourself. It often takes a long time to see yourself fully—the self that is the murderer, the rapist, the thief, the liar, all of those things you would never be, you would never act out. Yet you see them coming to you through the eyes, the actions, the thoughts of other people. And you say, “That couldn’t be me. That’s very disturbing.” And yet, my friends, you have those aspects within you. And they need to be acknowledged and loved and accepted. And then they need to be given orders from the daylight side, for they have their part to play in your service here.

If you take the thief and the rapist and the murderer and all of those anarchic elements, what they have in common is a kind of strength that sometimes is missing from the sweeter and more angelic side. And you need to have that grit, that perseverance, that ability to be bloody-minded for the good, to hold your ground, to hold the light and to remain yourself. Those shadow sides of personality are the elements that give you the depth of ability to stand your ground. They give teeth to your ideals. They give you a toughness that you would not otherwise have. And these are good things.

Consequently, we ask you as you look at yourself, as you get to know yourself, as you find these non-integrated portions of your shadow side, and to lift them up into your arms and to love them, to cradle them to you and to say, “Come work with me for the light. Come with me into the light.”

I couldn't find the other quotes but as far as I know know the shadow has to be accepted and loved and more importantly integrated and used. Even in the positive polarity. That work is often done at the end in 6th density when both polarities are integrated. The strength of an STS individual can also be built and used for good. It is that lesson that many fail to see. I think Ra or the others spoke about this that many postpone these lessons and over time a charge is built up. Many wanderers seem to come here to deal with that since that for some is faster.(Slow and fast wave ,Cassiopeans?) Starting in fourth density positive I can imagine it must be quite difficult to build up a sort of strenght that is mostly associated with STS-principles especially when everything around you is perfect. Fourth density is the kingdom of heaven that Jesus spoke about and once you're there why focus on anything but love and harmony? Why face the difficult , why built up strength, why not focus on the love and multiply it? Isn't that a delusion? For me it seems that kind of strength has to be wanted and willed into existence by the individual. A wanderer here mentioned how everyone in 4th density is blinded by love and forgets wisdom. They seem to have a difficult time moving into the density of wisdom for all they can see is oneness and love in each and everyone. It is as difficult as it is for people here on earth to learn unconditional love.

That strength I spoke of I believe it comes with wisdom for the STO-beings in fifth density and in fourth density negative it comes even earlier in 4th density negative. I have read about someone who has met angels and he described their strength comparable only to a sort of spiritual superman. They seem to be able to deal with demons with ease. I base my opinion only from what I have heard from others so take it with a grain of salt and I hope someone can maybe enlighten, correct, or help me understand it better.

[Sacred Fool]

And yes, I admit to totally projecting my own fears onto this equation. I hate the concept of a STS path, I wish it was never mentioned in the LOO, which was supposed to be a philosophy of unity, not duality. All this focus on duality has given me this ridiculous irrational fear that I'll somehow graduate to 4D negative, unwittingly. I have no idea why I can't shake this irrational fear, as I actually do really love people, that's never been all that hard for me.

This is a textbook example of what Jung calls "the shadow."  That which you cannot accept/love you hide in a dark place, and it grows there until it sneaks around and nibbles on your soft parts in the middle of the night!

This seems quite apropos to this thread.  Is acceptance really mightier than fear?  If so, why does that very often not seem to be the true?  If not, then how could we possibly move forward, except by chance? 

Is this not the crucial dividing line between midnight and noonday?  Are we just hoping we draw a lucky number before the end of the world?  Or does the light of our heart offer us an wholly different place to stand and embrace the entirety?
    


I report, you decide!
  

[Louisabell]

The strength of an STS individual can also be built and used for good. It is that lesson that many fail to see.

Well, I think going towards the STS path in hopes that it can be used for good sounds like ... a precarious situation.

I find a common thread with people considering the STS path is that they assume they'll only need to contend with themselves. You must acknowledge that there will be far stronger beings already on the STS path, and you will need to compete with them. So, any 'hopes', 'dreams' or 'wishes' that aren't all bent on out-competing your opponents will just be used against you, in order to control you. So yeah, you'll have to quit all that.

As for 4D positives only experiencing love and harmony in heaven. Well, imagine having full empathy with full omniscience of what happens here on Earth... yeah, they're not called the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow for nothing. I'm sure that'll toughen you right up, if that's what you're worried about.  

[flofrog]

Knowing that the end is near I just fear not making the harvest and not knowing exactly how much time is left just increases that fear.  I meditate sometimes not regularly because of all the negative emotions and thoughts. I know I have a lot to work on but I feel that most here don't have that. I sometimes notice my psychic powers increasing a bit and then falling and my mind breaking apart and I can't help but wonder that for most here it would be very very easy to gain that psychic power. It is all a matter of time spent in meditation and intensity. In a way meditation is like weightlifting and with a broken back it takes time to heal and a lot of time. I wish I didn't have to heal and could just skip that for I fear that in doing so I miss out on the harvest. The events on this planet are accelerating and with everything being in flux it is nearly impossible to make out a timeline. It could be this decade, the next five years or 3 centuries. Who knows really...
I have severe mental illness. I guess its probably a negative entity attachment or something like that. I think most here don't have that so they have it a lot easier. That's what I think. I might be wrong given that a lot seem to go trough a very harsh dark knight of the soul or something in that direction.

Throwawynegative132,

I just had that little thought reading this passage you typed above.

First I think its very difficult to evaluate whether one can be on harvest or not, and perhaps it is worth not considering it so much, trusting that perhaps, because we tend to judge ourselves very harshly ( Ra said it was a common trait to us humans in 3 D ) so... considering less the harvest, and whether we meditate enough or not, since perhaps some our actions are somehow a meditation in themselves of love towards Creator, would you in fact perhaps take the time to sit a few minutes and look at yourself as if stepping away, and perhaps say to you, ' here you are, incarnated entity. you suffer and yet you are resilient, you are in fact courageous, and I embrace you. You are good and ok.'

I know it sounds terribly cheesy but somewhere I think we all deserve this, you do too.

[Louisabell]

And yes, I admit to totally projecting my own fears onto this equation. I hate the concept of a STS path, I wish it was never mentioned in the LOO, which was supposed to be a philosophy of unity, not duality. All this focus on duality has given me this ridiculous irrational fear that I'll somehow graduate to 4D negative, unwittingly. I have no idea why I can't shake this irrational fear, as I actually do really love people, that's never been all that hard for me.

This is a textbook example of what Jung calls "the shadow."  That which you cannot accept/love you hide in a dark place, and it grows there until it sneaks around and nibbles on your soft parts in the middle of the night!

This seems quite apropos to this thread.  Is acceptance really mightier than fear?  If so, why does that very often not seem to be the true?  If not, then how could we possibly move forward, except by chance? 

Is this not the crucial dividing line between midnight and noonday?  Are we just hoping we draw a lucky number before the end of the world?  Or does the light of our heart offer us an wholly different place to stand and embrace the entirety?
    


I report, you decide!
  

The brighter the light, the sharper the shadow, as they say. There is no end to shadow work (as far as I can see, it only gets more intricate, subtle). Potential by itself has no direction, and the Choice must be made again and again as we continue to inhabit this 3D plane of Choice.

Saying all that, I still don't want to graduate to 4D negative, even if it seems extremely unlikely at this point. I may be able to balance such a fear with a more "come what may" (whatever it may be) attitude. Still working on that one

[BrotherInWaiting]

Your most prized possession is stolen, hidden deep inside the fortress tower of a 'rebel alliance'. The community is incensed at this terrible injustice -- offers to help recover it pour in from every corner of the cosmos...

How would you feel about an offer from a former demon, nowadays the most fervent worshipper of the light you can conceive of, who happens to have a conscience to clear and a profound knowledge of the way rebel fortresses are built?
What about the loving offer from a high priest, whose entire life has been spent worshipping the creator every single day?

Who is best equipped to infiltrate the fortress and enter into the demonic game of fighting and blasting at others without hesitation..?

Who would you select?

[jafar]

Welcome.. to the path of the winners...

Nobody is more superior other than me.

As I AM after all God, others are created to be my servant.

But always be wary, others are always envious of ME thus trust no one.

Strike fear to them so they will know who's the boss here.. ME

Life is a continuing struggle, everybody want to become the winner, I need to fight my way to the top to become the ultimate winner.