Do You Believe the Reincarnation Story

[SP1]

The reincarnation story is a recurring theme -- not just Ra.

However, how do you reconcile the idea that Infinite Intelligence needed to become a molecule of air in order to understand itself and create this process of reincarnation/karma/suffering/confusion/frustration etc.
Also consider it is quite possible that a lot of us will NEVER make it back to the source. So how does it make sense to create a game that may never ends.
And those aspects of the creator that do make it back will be very different than what they were when the left the creator -- due to a trillion years of experience.
Won't this change the essence of the creator?

Also, the karma doesn't make sense. Do we need to experience an atrocity in order to learn it's a bad thing?
Especially if we forget what happens in past lives.
So if I commit a crime in one life, the next time I am the victim, the next life I commit the crime again.
I mean, how could I learn a lesson if I can't remember the experience.

I would think that Infinite Intelligence would be more -- intelligent.

I am just suspicious if we are told this reincarnation story as a cover story for whatever the truth may be??

[Infinite]

Also consider it is quite possible that a lot of us will NEVER make it back to the source. So how does it make sense to create a game that may never ends.

The path of the one is inevitable. It doesn't matter how long it takes. After all, time is an illusion.

And those aspects of the creator that do make it back will be very different than what they were when the left the creator -- due to a trillion years of experience.
Won't this change the essence of the creator?

Evolution is in what is learned through the collection of experiences. It is not a specific identity, but a core of consciousness that feeds on the catalyst. Also remember that there are requirements for harvests at different densities. Thus, those who evolve follow a pattern predetermined by intelligent infinity and Logoi.

Also, the karma doesn't make sense. Do we need to experience an atrocity in order to learn it's a bad thing?
Especially if we forget what happens in past lives.

Whoever forgets is the third density ego, the spirit does not forget. These patterns are recorded.

I am just suspicious if we are told this reincarnation story as a cover story for whatever the truth may be??

Well, many have alternative theories. But I never saw anything that made sense.

[J.W.]

This is for your query on reincarnation.

Jim Tucker link

SP1, it is nice to see you are curious, but the core of your questioning is coming from a place of frustration and doubt...

You sound young to me, if it is not your 3d vessel, then maybe spiritually.. young. This is not to judge you, but on here, I openly let folks know that I am an observer in this life time, my ability and my words plant a note for resonance of any catalyst that may or may not come through.

You may not like what I have to say, and I do admit that from time to time, I lack the necessary patience to spend time on subjects that requires "introspection" and personal discovery. Although, I try to help as much as I can.

I applaud infinite for his consistent and thorough explanation,

but from the other posts I have seen from you SP1, these queries really requires you to start with meditation and dive deep into your current incarnation experience to fully find the "answer" that satisfy you.

Also, I sensed that you need to "let go" of something that has been clinging onto you for many years, perhaps.. pain, resentment, something...

I am not sure what, but that has to go before your "journey" can begin.

With best of luck and much light SP1,
hope this help.

[Dtris]

The reincarnation story is a recurring theme -- not just Ra.

However, how do you reconcile the idea that Infinite Intelligence needed to become a molecule of air in order to understand itself and create this process of reincarnation/karma/suffering/confusion/frustration etc.
Also consider it is quite possible that a lot of us will NEVER make it back to the source. So how does it make sense to create a game that may never ends.
And those aspects of the creator that do make it back will be very different than what they were when the left the creator -- due to a trillion years of experience.
Won't this change the essence of the creator?

Also, the karma doesn't make sense. Do we need to experience an atrocity in order to learn it's a bad thing?
Especially if we forget what happens in past lives.
So if I commit a crime in one life, the next time I am the victim, the next life I commit the crime again.
I mean, how could I learn a lesson if I can't remember the experience.

I would think that Infinite Intelligence would be more -- intelligent.

I am just suspicious if we are told this reincarnation story as a cover story for whatever the truth may be??

The reincarnation concept is older than the resurrection concept. It is common to diverse and separate groups, with remarkably similar beliefs. It is backed up by modern research using hypnotic regression, and memories of children. The phenomena is remarkably well documented, but ultimately unable to be falsified.

The concept of the why the universe was created, is really distinct from the concept of reincarnation. By distinct, I mean that you can be a believer in reincarnation, even if you do not believe in a creator or infinite intelligence whatsoever. While it is common among mystical traditions to posit the reason for creation being so that the creator can experience itself, that is also unable to be falsified. We really cannot know the reason for the creation. I am partial to the Kabbalah tradition myself on that question.

Karma is once again a separate concept from the other two and appears to be the one you really have an issue with. Karma is not so simple as retribution or reward. It is not so simple that it should be used as an excuse for the circumstances or events of your present life. I do not believe Karma is something that is possible for us to understand in 3rd density, or even 4th.

Now what I think is the most important part of your questions. Won't the parts that return to the creator change the essence of the creator after millions of years of experience? I think the answer is yes. That is the purpose as far as I can tell. All parts will eventually return to the creator, all experience will then change the creator, and a new creation will begin. How else can an infinite intelligence grow? In an infinite creation perhaps everyone has their own universe in the infinite rivers of time.

[jafar]

Also consider it is quite possible that a lot of us will NEVER make it back to the source. So how does it make sense to create a game that may never ends.

My additional questions to this are:
1. Who is or are "us" in this case?
2. Why do you even think that some of the (1) above will never make it back to the source?
3. What is it that's being 'incarnated'?

The similitude is like a webforum avatar, I can kill my current web avatar (disabling it) and create another avatar, and for the new avatar I adopted different personality. Thus it's not the 'avatar' that's being incarnated but the consciousness behind the avatar. The avatar itself will not be re-incarnated.

Also, the karma doesn't make sense. Do we need to experience an atrocity in order to learn it's a bad thing?
Especially if we forget what happens in past lives.
So if I commit a crime in one life, the next time I am the victim, the next life I commit the crime again.
I mean, how could I learn a lesson if I can't remember the experience.

As per my understanding 'karma' is an attachment / a bonding.
It's not a 'punish' and 'reward' game...
It's neither good or bad.

And good and bad is subjective, it need a point of reference.
Experiencing as the receiver side of an atrocity will enriched one with a perspective.
Experiencing as the giver/performer side of an atrocity will also enriched one with a perspective as well.

When you have a desire, you have a karma.
When you have a curiosity, you have a karma. A driver for you to know or experience the thing that you're curious about.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

The reincarnation story is a recurring theme -- not just Ra.

However, how do you reconcile the idea that Infinite Intelligence needed to become a molecule of air in order to understand itself and create this process of reincarnation/karma/suffering/confusion/frustration etc.
Also consider it is quite possible that a lot of us will NEVER make it back to the source. So how does it make sense to create a game that may never ends.
And those aspects of the creator that do make it back will be very different than what they were when the left the creator -- due to a trillion years of experience.
Won't this change the essence of the creator?

Maybe there's no difference between the "becoming" and the "thinking" needed to understand at the level of the All. That would resolve the first item. A finer point to the whole metaphysics is that everything simultaneously exists as "the One" and as the infinite numbers of limited roles inside the creation, time itself only coming into being inside the game being played, and therefore there's no need to "wait" on the outside to make it all sync up and add up in the end.

A possible metaphor, it may be useful but I think also in part misleading, would be: the cosmos is a little like the contents of RAM in a computer running a system which deals with "understanding" all the things in existence. The most misleading part of the metaphor may be that the consciousness of a being is not actually something in the RAM, but rather the whole thing pretending to be something inside of it.

It would seem logically impossible for the creator to change as a result of the creation. Because change can only take place inside of a structured system governed by laws in which several possible states exist and transitions between states is possible. That kind of system is what the creation is, while the formless unity of everything means the absence of any surrounding structure, laws, and limitations, and thus the absence of any states between which transition is possible. To put it differently, in unity there logically can't be things between which the creator can change.

Also, the karma doesn't make sense. Do we need to experience an atrocity in order to learn it's a bad thing?
Especially if we forget what happens in past lives.
So if I commit a crime in one life, the next time I am the victim, the next life I commit the crime again.
I mean, how could I learn a lesson if I can't remember the experience.

I don't really believe in karma in that way. The idea that it may be more like inertia in physics, things which are given movement energy in a direction continuing until stopped by something counteracting that, makes more sense. (Meaning: a pattern of bad stuff being done and happening tends to perpetuate itself until either resources are exhausted or the needed efforts are made to rise above the pattern and change the paradigm.) More generally, there's a lot about popular ideas of reincarnation that begin to seem questionable when looked at more carefully, I think.

I would think that Infinite Intelligence would be more -- intelligent.

I am just suspicious if we are told this reincarnation story as a cover story for whatever the truth may be??

I think a lot of spiritual ideas are more like placeholders than cover stories. Sometimes superstitions have filled a gap until scientific knowledge has advanced. I think it's the same with spiritual knowledge: wherever there's a gap, or vacuum, ideas will spring up, and some will be more popular than others, but over time it may become possible to discern which ideas match reality better and which don't. But in spiritual areas, a lot of old ideas, sometimes at odds with one another, have simply simmered around with minor variations for millennia, in the absence of a more reliable knowledge being built. It was the same with knowledge of the physical world for millennia until science suddenly began to progress enormously over a period of centuries.

[Sacred Fool]

I would think that Infinite Intelligence would be more -- intelligent.

I don't have much to add, really, but would offer this thought.  Perhaps your frustration (which I certainly understand) will become the impetus for your delving deeply into the heart of the matter to find your own experience of transcendent truth?  That heart, of course, being the one you carry.
  

PS: Perhaps you meant "Intelligent Infinity?"  Infinite Intelligence could be the name of a security agency run by an unnamed consortium of covert operatives in a secret parallel reality.

   

[flofrog]

I would think that Infinite Intelligence would be more -- intelligent.

I don't have much to add, really, but would offer this thought.  Perhaps your frustration (which I certainly understand) will become the impetus for your delving deeply into the heart of the matter to find your own experience of transcendent truth?  That heart, of course, being the one you carry.
  

PS: Perhaps you meant "Intelligent Infinity?"  Infinite Intelligence could be the name of a security agency run by an unnamed consortium of covert operatives in a secret parallel reality.

   

Love the first comment peregrine,

but... covert operatives, Peregrine ? And  I thought you were not into conspiracy theories.    

[Patrick]

He was making a joke.

[flofrog]

One has to kid him too...

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Reincarnation=the same energy reconfiguring and giving Life over and over again. This is why it makes so much sense. To think there are multiple energies racing about, making and taking forms for this and that in a chaotic manor makes no sense.
Think of the rain; it is the ocean, then the clouds filled with water from the ocean causing the rain to form and fall, then travels along the riverways back to the ocean. It was always the ocean that expressed itself as the rain. We are the Creator expressing ourselves as "this" but always traveling the riverway to go home and many times we gather then fall each time having a different personality but we are always the living agent for the One who sent us.
The process of reincarnation allows us the opportunity to perfect the Spirit of Man. To live once would cut ourselves short from the opportunities in growth and Understanding.

[Sacred Fool]

but... covert operatives, Peregrine ? And  I thought you were not into conspiracy theories.   

I wonder, flofrog, prior to the beginning of your next incarnation, if your Higher Self and guides will review your soul stream and decide they need to balance your profile with some covert experience?  You might end up being a founding member of Infinite Intelligence.  We'll see.  I expect you would take to it more quickly than you might expect............  <evil laughter>
   

[flofrog]

You might end up being a founding member of Infinite Intelligence.  We'll see.  I expect you would take to it more quickly than you might expect............  <evil laughter>
   

oh no, no, no, peregrine, not a founding member it has already been founded.

********


Exactly Ohr Ein Sof , imagine if we had only one incarnation, in particular case for myself, a slow frog !

[Patrick]

Without reincarnation, none of this would make sense.

That is the single thing that was bugging me the most in my Catholic upbringing, that we have only one life on Earth and after that you go to HELL forever and ever and ever and ever... or in Heaven if you somehow manages to die without sin.

But with reincarnation in the picture, it changes everything.

[AnthroHeart]

I believe the Tibetan Book of the Dead said that when you're offered the light to go into, to realize that you are the light. You don't have to go anywhere.
That light is the reincarnation trap.

[flofrog]

Interesting Sun, I have a feeling you might mean the light is a trap as in like it is so attractive ? Let me know if I am correct...

Among other things, one of the most interesting things about reincarnation is that, as for Christianity, it sorts of frees the entity from the hierarchical power of the church, you dont need someone to intercede for you, you speak directly with Creator. I have a feeling that is why the Council of Nicaea in 326 probably eradicated reincarnation from Jesus' teachings.. Of course I could be so wrong.