Was Evil invented by mistake ?

[Patrick]

Yes we are the Creator pondering these things. I already cast my vote. And you're right, it's with contrast that we can know this. So it's only while veilled that we can cast our vote on this.

The point of view we have while here is perfectly valid, just as much as the point of view we have in 7D or even in Oneness.

[Diana]

How do you know that you suffer? What is the basis for this consideration?

Further, how will you know when that suffering has ceased?

Personally, when I speak of suffering, I always mean the suffering of others—mostly others that aren't human. I am aware that this perspective is one of separation in a way (individual entities). But there is, in the Ra material, accountability and responsibility. Humans cause suffering—to each other (which I have less of a problem with because of accountability and responsibility) and to all other beings on this planet including the planet.

I can't be so cavalier about the suffering that humans cause. However, I understand there is a bigger picture. But that bigger picture is NOT KNOWN. I am not sure why so many think they actually know, or believe something particular; this is aside with what may resonate.

There is a balance to achieve here in my opinion—not get caught up in the maelstrom but not to ignore it either. Practically speaking, is it wise to have a philosophy that minimizes suffering—especially the suffering one causes to others? 

I find it extremely difficult to articulate my full meaning on this subject. I guess I don't like the attitude that suffering is just okay because it's the Creator's experience or some other cosmic view. The thing is, if anything matters everything does. Maybe nothing matters. 

On any given day I will have a different response to this subject. When I am here, reading posts, I sometimes feel that attitudes are cavalier about the suffering of others. When I am out and about I am in a more accepting mindset (about humanity). But I find it hard to accept the suffering humans cause to other life forms. And it seems to me a crappy plan to include such. 

The basis for suffering is an observation that entities are in pain, emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually. When it comes to 2D, spiritual pain (may) be left out. When one sees an old war vet on the street homeless, physically debilitated, is this not suffering (needless suffering from the perspective of human greed and folly)? I can speculate that this choice on the part of the war vet is valid. I still don't have to like the way the veil makes this possible. And, maybe I am a child spiritually who may at some point understand that this is good; but regarding accountability and responsibility, I cannot imagine it being good for any entities but humans, and that if such a plan is in place it ought to bypass the entities who are not benefitting from the veil. I am also aware that I may be speaking out of ignorance of the bigger picture. So if anyone would like to inform me based on what Ra said (please, no Q'uo or other conscious channeling), I am happy to hear it.

[Patrick]

...I am also aware that I may be speaking out of ignorance of the bigger picture...

That is the whole point of coming down here.  We can't see the big picture.  BUT that does not mean that our opinion while here does not count.  It counts a whole lot in my opinion.  I don't care that once on the other side we will all laugh about the game and the parts we played.  That does not change what is experienced here nor the opinion of the Creator (us) based on that experience.

It's important for me to believe that these experiences we have are going to be enough in this direction.  I do not like thinking that this insanity could just be pushed to infinity for all eternity.

So it comforts me thinking that, as a part of the Creator that is no more or less the Creator than any other parts, I can cast my vote on this matter, while incarnate in 3D space/time.  (Note to Self: "Do not ignore this part of the dream when you wake up on the other side!")

[Aion]

How do you know that you suffer? What is the basis for this consideration?

Further, how will you know when that suffering has ceased?

Personally, when I speak of suffering, I always mean the suffering of others—mostly others that aren't human. I am aware that this perspective is one of separation in a way (individual entities). But there is, in the Ra material, accountability and responsibility. Humans cause suffering—to each other (which I have less of a problem with because of accountability and responsibility) and to all other beings on this planet including the planet.

I can't be so cavalier about the suffering that humans cause. However, I understand there is a bigger picture. But that bigger picture is NOT KNOWN. I am not sure why so many think they actually know, or believe something particular; this is aside with what may resonate.

There is a balance to achieve here in my opinion—not get caught up in the maelstrom but not to ignore it either. Practically speaking, is it wise to have a philosophy that minimizes suffering—especially the suffering one causes to others? 

I find it extremely difficult to articulate my full meaning on this subject. I guess I don't like the attitude that suffering is just okay because it's the Creator's experience or some other cosmic view. The thing is, if anything matters everything does. Maybe nothing matters. 

On any given day I will have a different response to this subject. When I am here, reading posts, I sometimes feel that attitudes are cavalier about the suffering of others. When I am out and about I am in a more accepting mindset (about humanity). But I find it hard to accept the suffering humans cause to other life forms. And it seems to me a crappy plan to include such. 

The basis for suffering is an observation that entities are in pain, emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually. When it comes to 2D, spiritual pain (may) be left out. When one sees an old war vet on the street homeless, physically debilitated, is this not suffering (needless suffering from the perspective of human greed and folly)? I can speculate that this choice on the part of the war vet is valid. I still don't have to like the way the veil makes this possible. And, maybe I am a child spiritually who may at some point understand that this is good; but regarding accountability and responsibility, I cannot imagine it being good for any entities but humans, and that if such a plan is in place it ought to bypass the entities who are not benefitting from the veil. I am also aware that I may be speaking out of ignorance of the bigger picture. So if anyone would like to inform me based on what Ra said (please, no Q'uo or other conscious channeling), I am happy to hear it.

Hmm, well, may I venture to suggest that you are in fact describing your own suffering here? That is what it seems to me. In the sense that this is what brings you pain to experience.

Pain is an interesting concept. I think that's probably a better place to look for answers in this regard.

Don was also very interested in pain.

34.6 Questioner: Thank you. Can you give me examples of catalytic action to produce learning under each of the following headings from the last session we had… Can you give me an example of the self unmanifested producing learning catalyst?

Ra: I am Ra. We observed your interest in the catalyst of pain. This experience is most common among your entities. The pain may be of the physical complex. More often it is of the mental and emotional complex. In some few cases the pain is spiritual in complex-nature. This creates a potential for learning. The lessons to be learned vary. Almost always these lessons include patience, tolerance, and the ability for the light touch.

Very often the catalyst for emotional pain, whether it be the death of the physical complex of one other-self which is loved or some other seeming loss, will simply result in the opposite, in a bitterness, an impatience, a souring. This is catalyst which has gone awry. In these cases, then, there will be additional catalyst provided to offer the unmanifested self further opportunities for discovering the self as all-sufficient Creator containing all that there is and full of joy.

SO here is an interesting thought. Are we, as the apparently mighty spiritual entities we are, not capable of "patience, tolerance, and the ability for the light touch"?
Perhaps it's not really the soul that is learning here, but rather it is the soul that is teaching the world of bodies how to behave.
As above, so below.

83.21 Questioner: When the veiling process originally took place, then, it seems that the Logos must have had a list, you might say, of those [functions] that would become unconscious and those that would remain consciously controlled. I am assuming that if this occurred there was good reason for these divisions. Am I any way correct on this?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

83.22 Questioner: Would you correct me, please?

Ra: I am Ra. There were many experiments whereby various of the functions or distortions of the body complex were veiled and others not. A large number of these experiments resulted in nonviable body complexes or those only marginally viable. For instance, it is not a survival-oriented mechanism for the nerve receptors to blank out unconsciously any distortions towards pain.

83.23 Questioner: Now before the veil the mind could blank out pain. I assume then, that the function of the pain at that time was to signal the body to assume a different configuration so that the source of the pain would leave, but then the pain could be eliminated mentally. Is that correct, and was there another function for pain prior to the veiling?

Ra: I am Ra. Your assumption is correct. The function of pain at that time was as the warning of the fire alarm to those not smelling the smoke.

83.24 Questioner: Then let’s say that an entity at that time burned its hand due to carelessness. It would immediately remove its hand from the burning object and then, in order to not feel the pain any more, would mentally cut the pain off until healing had taken place. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

83.25 Questioner: We would look at this in our present illusion as the elimination of a certain amount of catalyst that would produce an acceleration in our evolution. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The attitude towards pain varies from mind/body/spirit complex to mind/body/spirit complex. Your verbalization of attitude towards the distortion known as pain is one productive of helpful distortions as regards the process of evolution.

83.26 Questioner: What I was trying to indicate was that the plan of the Logos in veiling the conscious from the unconscious in such a way that the pain could not so easily be controlled would have created a system of catalyst that was not previously usable. Is this generally correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

So, there's Ra's take on it.

Of course, that's describing specifically physical pain, but it's interesting to note the "pain is eliminated mentally" so I wonder if there is some connection to the mind's inability to eliminate physical pain and mental/emotional pain.
Like if the body was in constant bliss would the mind and emotions be largely joyous?

As someone who lives in chronic pain, I can tell you that moments of genuine physical pain relief bring consciousness altering relaxation of the mind and emotions, until the pain returns.

It is said that trauma is held in the body, maybe there is some key in there.

[Aion]

Oh yes, I guess the important part is here.

83.27 Questioner: Now, in some cases it seems that this use of catalyst is almost in a runaway condition for some entities; that they are experiencing much more pain than they can make good use of as far as catalytic nature would be concerned. Could you comment on our present condition in the illusion with respect to that particular subject?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last query of this working of a full length. You may see, in some cases, an entity which, either by pre-incarnative choice or by constant reprogramming while in incarnation, has developed an esurient program of catalyst. Such an entity is quite desirous of using the catalyst and has determined to its own satisfaction that what you may call the large board needs to be applied to the forehead in order to obtain the attention of the self. In these cases it may indeed seem a great waste of the catalyst of pain and a distortion towards feeling the tragedy of so much pain may be experienced by the other-self. However, it is well to hope that the other-self is grasping that which it has gone to some trouble to offer itself; that is, the catalyst which it desires to use for the purpose of evolution. May we ask if there are any brief queries at this time?

Sooo, some do it on purpose, and some are apparently so "catalyst hungry" (had to look up what esurient means - greedy or hungry) that they literally bite off more than they can chew in the hopes of achieving the most evolution.

Seems souls are still working on the wisdom thing at that point. Yet, with our body/mind/spirit totalities being aware of all at 7th, why would we do this to ourselves?

Such are the paradoxes it seems.

Now from our perspective this happening to millions or billions of creatures may seem like an immense amount of suffering, but that's cause it's on our ground level.

It's true when you start to think of planets upon planets in galaxies upon galaxies, is it not possible to imagine that there is likely less suffering than not in the universe? Is it perhaps that we project our own perspective here at ground level on to the cosmos?

Seems like this was a particular experiment by our own Logos (which we are, right?).

[Patrick]

I've read before that we are perhaps in a unique position here on this matter. Maybe we are in the place where we are testing how far we are ready to go?

[Aion]

How far are you ready to go?

It's interesting, for any question ever that is asked, we seek around for answers that "feel right" or "make sense", but really any answer can be given to any question.

I find preferences to be the most fascinating in this case.

Why is it that you prefer not to suffer?

For any question where there is a side you feel you 'cannot imagine', I would always propose that means that part of the self is repulsed and the way forward is through the repulsion.

Only when you have fully realized both your ability to inflict and experience suffering can you truly be wise in choices regarding care, just as I think that must also be balanced with the realization of the ability to inflict and experience pleasure and enjoyment. Of course, most are always trying to do their best as they are able and in truth nothing is asked of anyone.

However, if we are to take Ra's word for it, perhaps some are so eager to become wise that we have a case of many trying to run before they have gotten the walk.

Try for a day to think opposite to yourself, there is a lot you can learn about yourself by doing so I think. (Maybe best not to behave that way though, might not be what you want following you.)

[Aion]

Wow, looked outside and Venus is shining brightly above the tree. Wuddup echoes of Ra complex past.

[Diana]

Hmm, well, may I venture to suggest that you are in fact describing your own suffering here? That is what it seems to me. In the sense that this is what brings you pain to experience.

Pain is an interesting concept. I think that's probably a better place to look for answers in this regard.

This is certainly a part of it, since empathy or compassion is a connection to an other.

I think there is a difference between suffering and pain. I will try to illustrate with an analogy:

If you see a person hit by a car, and this person is lying in the street with a broken leg as a result, and you know this person is suffering physically, it doesn't seem to be devastating to know that. You may feel badly for the person, but there is not that element of "hopeless" suffering in it. The person with the broken leg will be taken to the hospital and eventually it will be better, and the person knows it (in general, I don't speak of someone so mentally handicapped they don't understand this).

If you know a person with terminal cancer, again, you feel badly for that person. You may feel more pity for this person than the one with the broken leg.

But if you see someone who is in a state of hopeless suffering, such as the war vet I mentioned, who is on the street homeless, without food or shelter, without companionship except perhaps a beautiful dog, in real emotional and mental isolation and pain, reviled by people around him—maybe it's just me, but this suffering is harder to witness. And I do get that the man in this scenario may have chosen it. Nonetheless, it is difficult to see and since we are all veiled here, there is no way to know that the man chose it, or that there is anything beyond this life to go on to. This is not to say I think this life is all there is and poof you're gone.

And this is more to the point: when you witness the suffering of a 2d entity, who has no knowledge (presumably) of anything but the now, who has lived an entire life of torture and pain and captivity—what then? There are instances of such inhumane (which I find an interesting word) cruelty to animals the mind boggles at it. In witnessing (or knowing of) something of this nature, there is no element of self-pity, which might occur if you see the person with the broken leg and you imagine how awful it would be if it were you. It is compassion, not because what is done to an other is done to you; but because your heart has opened to all life forms and not just humans in terms of empathy. Most people get this when it comes to their pets, but pets comprise a very small portion of 2D.

34.6 Questioner: Thank you. Can you give me examples of catalytic action to produce learning under each of the following headings from the last session we had… Can you give me an example of the self unmanifested producing learning catalyst?

Ra: I am Ra. We observed your interest in the catalyst of pain. This experience is most common among your entities. The pain may be of the physical complex. More often it is of the mental and emotional complex. In some few cases the pain is spiritual in complex-nature. This creates a potential for learning. The lessons to be learned vary. Almost always these lessons include patience, tolerance, and the ability for the light touch.

Very often the catalyst for emotional pain, whether it be the death of the physical complex of one other-self which is loved or some other seeming loss, will simply result in the opposite, in a bitterness, an impatience, a souring. This is catalyst which has gone awry. In these cases, then, there will be additional catalyst provided to offer the unmanifested self further opportunities for discovering the self as all-sufficient Creator containing all that there is and full of joy.

SO here is an interesting thought. Are we, as the apparently mighty spiritual entities we are, not capable of "patience, tolerance, and the ability for the light touch"?
Perhaps it's not really the soul that is learning here, but rather it is the soul that is teaching the world of bodies how to behave.
As above, so below.

I don't know about you, but I have no patience at all. (just a joke)

It makes sense that 3rd density beings would push forward in this way—because they can. Any and all things available will be explored I imagine. Not to mention people in general prefer shortcuts, which is something religions provide, and gurus. I have no interest in that. I want to find my own way and I hope to always use wisdom (whatever I have) in doing so. I can't account for my discarnate behavior—if I am a wanderer that already makes me foolhardy.

This applies only to 3rd density. 2D entities apparently only have mind/body complexes.

83.21 Questioner: When the veiling process originally took place, then, it seems that the Logos must have had a list, you might say, of those [functions] that would become unconscious and those that would remain consciously controlled. I am assuming that if this occurred there was good reason for these divisions. Am I any way correct on this?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

83.22 Questioner: Would you correct me, please?

Ra: I am Ra. There were many experiments whereby various of the functions or distortions of the body complex were veiled and others not. A large number of these experiments resulted in nonviable body complexes or those only marginally viable. For instance, it is not a survival-oriented mechanism for the nerve receptors to blank out unconsciously any distortions towards pain.

83.23 Questioner: Now before the veil the mind could blank out pain. I assume then, that the function of the pain at that time was to signal the body to assume a different configuration so that the source of the pain would leave, but then the pain could be eliminated mentally. Is that correct, and was there another function for pain prior to the veiling?

Ra: I am Ra. Your assumption is correct. The function of pain at that time was as the warning of the fire alarm to those not smelling the smoke.

83.24 Questioner: Then let’s say that an entity at that time burned its hand due to carelessness. It would immediately remove its hand from the burning object and then, in order to not feel the pain any more, would mentally cut the pain off until healing had taken place. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

83.25 Questioner: We would look at this in our present illusion as the elimination of a certain amount of catalyst that would produce an acceleration in our evolution. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The attitude towards pain varies from mind/body/spirit complex to mind/body/spirit complex. Your verbalization of attitude towards the distortion known as pain is one productive of helpful distortions as regards the process of evolution.

83.26 Questioner: What I was trying to indicate was that the plan of the Logos in veiling the conscious from the unconscious in such a way that the pain could not so easily be controlled would have created a system of catalyst that was not previously usable. Is this generally correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

So, there's Ra's take on it.

Of course, that's describing specifically physical pain, but it's interesting to note the "pain is eliminated mentally" so I wonder if there is some connection to the mind's inability to eliminate physical pain and mental/emotional pain.
Like if the body was in constant bliss would the mind and emotions be largely joyous?

As someone who lives in chronic pain, I can tell you that moments of genuine physical pain relief bring consciousness altering relaxation of the mind and emotions, until the pain returns.

It is said that trauma is held in the body, maybe there is some key in there.

I take your point on chronic pain. I haven't had it, other than few days of say my neck being out with pinched nerves, but even then it wears you down quickly. I can imagine how much worse it is with something chronic. It seems to me that pain in this case would be a message, as is mentioned in the quote. And if it is a message, then why would it be efficacious to mentally eliminate it before the message was heard and processed? It seems to me it would be more to the point to heal the pain through understanding the message than to cover it up with mental discipline like a medication would do. Just speculating here, and I absolutely do not mean to diminish the challenges of such pain.

I also take your point on the contrast of pain and joy. I don't know if constant bliss would even be known if that's all there was. I can look back on a long period of my life when everything was really good, and at a point you get really used to that. You forget that anything was ever bad. You laugh all the time and float around in a state of happiness for lack of a better word. I don't think this state was created in contrast to something else, but I can't prove that. It is more a state of lack of stress, so that anything you might want to do is uninhibited by blocks of any kind. It is more like, that state is the natural way to be. I could be entirely wrong about this, and would like to hear what anyone else thinks about it.

I come here often to think out loud so to speak. So it may seem like I harp on the same old stuff (I'm sure many are tired of me talking about 2D entities), but it is because like everyone else here I imagine, I am trying to sort out the veiled 3D existence.

[Aion]

Talking about "witnessing suffering" I think is really much more about your own feelings than any objective measure of suffering.
I still don't really see any difference even with your analogy. The suffering in each case is still based in pain of the individual, you're only talking about one's impression of seeing that.
I'm not really sure how you can have suffering without some form of pain or vice versa. (Not getting in to the phenomena of BDSM lol)

However, I do identify in a manner, in that I have a bias towards protection of trees and old growth and any time I see clear cutting or huge ancient trees chopped down it fills me with rage.
I understand your bias towards animals and such, although for me I think a lot of humans that are victims of other humans are just as scared and defenseless as animals.
My grandparents on my Dad's side come from WW2 Germany, I don't think I need to get in to the horror stories there.

I guess my approach to suffering is along these lines.

42.5 Questioner: In the illusion that we now experience it is difficult to maintain this response especially if the entity’s attack results in physical pain, but I assume that this response should be maintained even through physical loss of life or extreme pain. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and further is of a major or principal importance in understanding, shall we say, the principle of balance. Balance is not indifference but rather the observer not blinded by any feelings of separation but rather fully imbued with love.

42.6 Questioner: In the last session you made the statement that “We, that is Ra, spent much time/space in the fifth density balancing the intense compassion gained in fourth density.” Could you expand on this concept with respect to what we were just discussing?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density, as we have said, abounds in compassion. This compassion is folly when seen through the eyes of wisdom. It is the salvation of third density but creates a mismatch in the ultimate balance of the entity.
Thus we, as a social memory complex of fourth density, had the tendency towards compassion even to martyrdom in aid of other-selves. When the fifth-density harvest was achieved we found that in this vibratory level flaws could be seen in the efficacy of such unrelieved compassion. We spent much time/space in contemplation of those ways of the Creator which imbue love with wisdom.

42.7 Questioner: I would like to try to make an analogy for this in third density. Many entities here feel great compassion toward relieving the physical problems of third-density other-selves by administering to them in many ways, bringing them food if there is hunger as there is in the African nations now, bringing them medicine if they believe they require administering to them medically, and being selfless in all of these services to a very great extent.

This is creating a polarization or a vibration that is in harmony with green ray or fourth density. However, it is not balanced with the understanding of fifth density that these entities are experiencing catalyst and a more balanced administration to their needs would be to provide them with the learning necessary to reach the state of awareness of fourth density than it would be to administer to their physical needs at this time. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. To a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body. You may extrapolate from this.
On the other hand, however, you are correct in your assumption that the green ray response is not as refined as that which has been imbued with wisdom. This wisdom enables the entity to appreciate its contributions to the planetary consciousness by the quality of its being, without regard to activity or behavior which expects results upon visible planes.

42.8 Questioner: Then why do we have the extreme starvation problem in, generally, in the area of Africa at this time? Is this, is there any metaphysical reason for this, or is it purely random occurrence?

Ra: I am Ra. Your previous assumption was correct as to the catalytic action of this starvation and ill health. However, it is within the free will of an entity to respond to this plight of other-selves, and the offering of the needed foodstuffs and substances is an appropriate response within the framework of your learn/teachings at this time which involve the growing sense of love for and service to other-selves.

So we have a situation arising where the need for compassion is created and yet it is by free will that help is offered.

My take from this whole situation is that this planet is a dirty house and Creator was like "okay, you guys gotta do the dishes, take out the trash, make the beds, etc" and we're all like "OKAY" but then nobody can agree on how it should be done so every time someone cleans something someone else makes a mess again and the cycle goes on.

Also this is a pertinent quote.

77.17 Questioner: Now, would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, there was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function only of this positive polarization evolving from our original creation of sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true-color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

This last bit is interesting, that Logoi like, compare themselves to eachother?

[Patrick]

...
Why is it that you prefer not to suffer?
...

Yeah well, the more I think about it and the less I believe my issues are with suffering per se.

What gets to me is our financial system and how nearly everyone believe it's ok like that.  My life is going so well at the moment that the contrast with the greater portion of society, especially during a crisis, is hard for me to accept.  Everyone could have abundance of everything!  We had Star Trek for decades showing people how it could/should be.  But nope they still cannot imagine it.  I believe a great success of the negatives was to associate socialism/communism with dictatorship.  Now people see these two concepts as being inseparable.  Of course, socialism is not the answer to the money system anyway, but still...  The solution is clearly a money-less system.

But we did not come here to fix this world.  We came here to love it.  So I guess I should worry less and love more.

[Aion]

I agree with you on the point of abundance, however I would suggest that the issue in this case is still about suffering, because isn't the contrast there that you feel that others are suffering more than you due to the nature of this system?

[Patrick]

I agree with you on the point of abundance, however I would suggest that the issue in this case is still about suffering, because isn't the contrast there that you feel that others are suffering more than you due to the nature of this system?

Yeah ok.  It makes me suffer to see others needlessly suffer.  The needless part is what I should probably work on.  Who am I to say that it's needless for them?  I know that I should let go and this might be related to me working on blue-ray issues at the moment.  Like, once I've given my opinion on how the system could be better, I should let go.  There is nothing else I can do to help.  I can just spend the rest of my life pointing out how we could all resolve this mess and that will have been my work down here.

This way I can just be happy all the time and let the L/L of the Creator pass through me to this world.  People are asking for help.  They are in sorrow and we are the sisters and brothers of sorrow, so we answer, but like Ra said: "...our very being is hopefully a poignant example of both the necessity and the near-hopelessness of attempting to teach...".

Our help is both necessary and near-hopeless!  If I can accept that it is enough that I am answering the call for help by incarnating here and teaching just by the example of my life and by saying my piece over and over again.  And maybe let the butterfly effect do its thing.   But even without the butterfly effect it's more than enough, because to help one is to help all.

"...This wisdom enables the entity to appreciate its contributions to the planetary consciousness by the quality of its being, without regard to activity or behavior which expects results upon visible planes..."

[flofrog]

Quan in the Q’uo thread was citing this from Ra....

"Therefore, we shall briefly iterate that to the balanced entity no situation has an emotional charge but is simply a situation like any other in which the entity may or may not observe an opportunity to be of service. The closer an entity comes to this attitude the closer an entity is to balance."

[Patrick]

Well then I've got a long way to go still.

[Aion]

Some great thought here, for sure.

[RitaJC]

"Evil comes from man's own "vain imaginings." Withdraw all power from evil and it is powerless to hurt." ~ Florence Scovel Shinn

[David_1]

   “Was evil invented by mistake?”
   I think “invented” is an interesting word choice.  Free will was given to all living creatures.  So, each human has the choice of actions of behavior.
   It seems to me that evil begins with the thought that, “I will behave is a way that benefits me or gives me power, even though my action takes advantage of someone else.”
   I don’t think the Creator ever chooses evil, nor invents evil.  It seems to me that evil can result from free will choices of created individuals who choose actions that cause separation rather than intended union.

[AnthroHeart]

I had a sort of nightmare that the next Octave was helpful/harmful instead of love/light.

[Patrick]

...I don’t think the Creator ever chooses evil...

Who is making that choice then?  There is no one else...

[Aion]

Well that's a funny idea.

Free Will is the first "distortion", so it is the first instant of the Creator separating from itself.

Choice is literally the aspect of the Creator flowing through multiplicity.

The fun thing is that "before first distortion" so from the pure view of Creator, there is no Free Will, it is the first illusion it pulls over itself.

However, through doing so, the Creator makes EVERY choice simultaneously, so it cannot ever be said that the Creator chooses one thing or another, or has any preferences, for it chooses all things at all times for all time.

At least that's how it appears to me.

[Patrick]

According to Ra, Infiniti became the Creator after the first distortion. So it is the Creator that chooses evil. It is us, there is no one else.

[Aion]

Yes but it also equally chooses good, so when two opposing choices have been equally made what is the result?

[Patrick]

Yes but it also equally chooses good, so when two opposing choices have been equally made what is the result?

I thought it was said that the part of us choosing evil is much smaller then the part choosing good.  So it's not equal.  But the weird thing about STS is that it removes choices from others.  Not remove the choice of STS or STO, because it actually creates that choice.  But there was still a choice in 3d before the veil.

[Glow]

Aion I really appreciate your use of quotes and insight.
Seems I should do a reread.

[Glow]

...
Why is it that you prefer not to suffer?
...

Yeah well, the more I think about it and the less I believe my issues are with suffering per se.

What gets to me is our financial system and how nearly everyone believe it's ok like that.  My life is going so well at the moment that the contrast with the greater portion of society, especially during a crisis, is hard for me to accept.  Everyone could have abundance of everything!  We had Star Trek for decades showing people how it could/should be.  But nope they still cannot imagine it.  I believe a great success of the negatives was to associate socialism/communism with dictatorship.  Now people see these two concepts as being inseparable.  Of course, socialism is not the answer to the money system anyway, but still...  The solution is clearly a money-less system.

But we did not come here to fix this world.  We came here to love it.  So I guess I should worry less and love more.

I’m there with you but instead of feeling it’s one faction perpetrating I see the unhealed wounds of all people drive this(fear, and pain beneath it all) even at the extreme ends of greed and to mere survival.

This unhealed shadow is what drives so many issues of pain for both 3D and 2D life. It sucks knowing all are beloved and stuck blind in this cycle or can see but are unable to help in a significant way.

I guess though for us it’s our catylist to develop patience, tolerance and the light touch. I’m pretty good at tolerance, not great at patience and sort of hit or miss at the light touch.

I guess instead of just tolerating others actions I have to work on tolerating my dis.ease with the situation so maybe I do not have tolerance licked either.

Thanks for this very helpful conversation everyone.

[Glow]

Quan in the Q’uo thread was citing this from Ra....

"Therefore, we shall briefly iterate that to the balanced entity no situation has an emotional charge but is simply a situation like any other in which the entity may or may not observe an opportunity to be of service. The closer an entity comes to this attitude the closer an entity is to balance."

Same session to elaborate
2.3 Questioner: I will attempt to make an analogy. If an animal, shall I say a bull in a pen, attacks you because you have wandered into his pen, you get out of his way rapidly but you do not blame him. Or, you do not have much of an emotional response other than the fear response that he might damage you. However, if you encounter another self in his territory and he attacks you, your response may be more of an emotional nature creating physical bodily responses. Am I correct in assuming that when your response to the animal and to the other-self seeing both as the Creator and loving both and understanding their action in attacking you is the action of their free will then you have balanced yourself correctly in this area? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, the balanced entity will see in the seeming attack of an other-self the causes of this action which are, in most cases, of a more complex nature than the cause of the attack of the second-density bull as was your example. Thus this balanced entity would be open to many more opportunities for service to a third-density other-self.

42.4 Questioner: Would a perfectly balanced entity feel an emotional response when being attacked by the other-self?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The response is love.

[Aion]

Yes but it also equally chooses good, so when two opposing choices have been equally made what is the result?

I thought it was said that the part of us choosing evil is much smaller then the part choosing good.  So it's not equal.  But the weird thing about STS is that it removes choices from others.  Not remove the choice of STS or STO, because it actually creates that choice.  But there was still a choice in 3d before the veil.

You are thinking purely quantitatively, trying to compare the "numbers of positive vs the numbers of negative" and I'm not sure that's actually reflective of the balance of Choice.
Of course, not that those numbers are meaningless, I just think the numbers are a manifestation of the current phase of "mixing", as it were.
The end of the perfectly balanced universe will be when all that has been positive has been negative and vice versa, I think.
To suggest that the Creator has a bias means that Creator itself would have some kind of preference, but it does not, it gleefully moves in whatever direction choice allows.
That is to say, it moves towards both choices with the same fervor and dedication. It does not hesitate on one or the other.

So that's what I mean by chooses both equally.

In the eyes of the One there is no good or evil, no right or wrong, only unity. The Creator is both the victim and the perpetrator in all situations.
Anyways, that's how it all appears to me.

19.15 Questioner: Then the newest third-density beings who’ve just made the transition from second are still strongly biased towards self-service. There must be many other mechanisms to create an awareness of the possibility of service to others.
I am wondering, first— two things. I’m wondering about the mechanism and I am wondering when the split takes place where the entity is able to continue on the road towards service to self that will eventually take him to fourth or fifth density.
I would assume that an entity can continue— can start, say, in second density with service totally to self and continue right on through and just stay on what we would call the path of service to self and never ever be pulled over. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The second-density concept of serving self includes the serving of those associated with tribe or pack. This is not seen in second density as separation of self and other-self. All is seen as self since in some forms of second-density entities, if the tribe or pack becomes weakened, so does the entity within the tribe or pack.

The new or initial third-density entity has this innocent, shall we say, bias or distortion towards viewing those in the family, the society, as you would call, perhaps, country, as self. Thus though a distortion not helpful for progress in third density, it is without polarity.

The break becomes apparent when the entity perceives other-selves as other-selves and consciously determines to manipulate other-selves for the benefit of the self. This is the beginning of the road of which you speak.

A key component to this idea of STS is being "conscious", and even by Ra's expression a lot of the negatively happening on the planet is "misplaced positivity" rather than genuine negative polarization.

Thus, we have an individuated portion of the Creator becoming aware of itself as individuated and choosing to benefit itself first and foremost.

On the other side, we would have an individuated portion of the Creator becoming aware of itself as individuated and choosing to benefit others first and foremost.

To those who have chosen the reasons for each may seem obvious, but I think there is a very deep and rich exploration to be seen in asking the question, "why?"

Ra says that most people are well along their path before becoming consciously aware of it which means there are other biases that go in to this beyond just being consciously aware.
What are the things that could perhaps cause someone to lean one way or the other?

[Aion]

However, I think that this is the hardest but most pertinent quote to this whole discussion?

19.17 Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?

Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

You see, the exploration of evil is just another exploration of pleasure, for those who love the taste of suffering are certainly not bothered by it.

Yet, they too are the Creator.

I think the idea that the Creator explores pain "for fun" is definitely a disturbing idea for most people.

[Glow]

I find the word evil has so many underlying connotations which maybe aren’t helpful or truly reflective.

Perhaps it’s easier to see it with less bias when it’s called seperation or perhaps that’s me wanting to dilute/sugar coat the extremes the experience of separation can be.

Either way since the one separated into two, each carry a loss of unity and that is more than enough wound/loss/shadow to fuel any experience of STS or STO exploration. It does all come back to a shadow of a wound. That’s why all goes back to 1, reunion. The path of separation ends.