Tarot, The Choice, and the Veiling

[sillypumpkins]

I inquired about this in another thread but wanted to start a discussion in a more appropriate section of the forum (and not in someone elses thread!)

79.31 Questioner: Then at this point, would the Choice exist at this point, the creation of the first service-to-self polarity? Is there a choice at that point or is it a non-choice?

Ra: I am Ra. Implicit in the veiling or separation of two archetypes is the concept of choice. The refinements to this concept took many experiences.

I am a new student of Tarot and so my knowledge is quite limited. I am just going to express my understanding.

So, the Veil (or separation) exists between any two archetypes, and implicit in that veiling is the concept of choice. The choice to "uncover" what is behind the veil, so to speak. Is that about right?

With that being said, I am only aware that the Veil exists between the Matrices and Potentiators.

My inquiry however is this: Does the Veil only exists between each sequential archetypes of either the Mind/Body/Spirit(- symbolizing the veil) Matrix-Potentiator-Catalyst-Experience-Significator-Transformation-Great Way? Or can it exist, for example between the Matrix of Mind-Experience of Body, or Experience of Body-Great Way of Spirit? Or perhaps between Matrix of Mind-Matrix of Body?

Intuitively, it seems that any combination could potentially have the Veil between each of them. I still want to get a discussion going on it though.... interesting stuff!

Thanks all

[Navaratna]

All is one, no distortion in Ra's message

[sillypumpkins]

Navaratna, I'm having a hard time relating your response to anything I mentioned in the original post..... care to elaborate a bit?

[Navaratna]

Navaratna, I'm having a hard time relating your response to anything I mentioned in the original post..... care to elaborate a bit?

So, the Veil (or separation) exists between any two archetypes, and implicit in that veiling is the concept of choice. The choice to "uncover" what is behind the veil, so to speak. Is that about right?

Choice=Bias=
Dualism=mental projections[ego]
Illusion of separateness=
Truth is experience=Infinite oneness of mind/universal oversoul

Sahaj Samadhi the 8th limb of Yoga in Eastern traditions [Yoga means "union with the divine" in this context]
is the merger of subject/object observation

[ricdaw]

79.31 Questioner: Then at this point, would the Choice exist at this point, the creation of the first service-to-self polarity? Is there a choice at that point or is it a non-choice?

Ra: I am Ra. Implicit in the veiling or separation of two archetypes is the concept of choice. The refinements to this concept took many experiences.

I am a new student of Tarot and so my knowledge is quite limited. I am just going to express my understanding.

So, the Veil (or separation) exists between any two archetypes, and implicit in that veiling is the concept of choice. The choice to "uncover" what is behind the veil, so to speak. Is that about right?

I would say rather, that the veiling is a characteristic of being incarnate.  The "Choice" that Ra speaks of (with a capital "C") is always a polarity choice.  Whether to become a person with a STS orientation, or a STO orientation.  A small "c" choice would be whether or not to try and explore the veiling and to see what's "behind the veil" but that is akin to all of life's choices.  Why capital "C" Choice is implicit between Magician and High Priestess is that we don't remember we are Eternal.  We think we are finite Beings who turn to dust when dead.  So being confronted with a lifetime of opportunity, and the need to spend the time somehow, knowing that it will always end in a seemingly permanent Death; how do you choose to spend the time?  From a spiritual perspective, the perspective of your Afterlife Self, the lifetime only "works" or is "productive" to Soul Growth if you first choose a polarity and then live according to that choice.  Choose STS and then actively be STS.  Choose STO, then actively help others.  But if you make no choice at all, if you muddle around the unproductive middle, you gain no traction at all and the life is . . . wasted.  The veiling obscures not only the two paths: STS and STO.  It obscures even the EXISTENCE of the fundamental need to Choose in the first place.  It is a devilish thing, this veiling.

With that being said, I am only aware that the Veil exists between the Matrices and Potentiators.

I agree.

My inquiry however is this: Does the Veil only exists between each sequential archetypes of either the Mind/Body/Spirit(- symbolizing the veil) Matrix-Potentiator-Catalyst-Experience-Significator-Transformation-Great Way? Or can it exist, for example between the Matrix of Mind-Experience of Body, or Experience of Body-Great Way of Spirit? Or perhaps between Matrix of Mind-Matrix of Body?

Intuitively, it seems that any combination could potentially have the Veil between each of them. I still want to get a discussion going on it though.... interesting stuff!

Thanks all

The veil appears explicitly and implicitly in other cards, yes.  But I would suggest looking to the primary meanings and pairing of the other cards, before exploring the veiling concept between them.  A cook would be wise to bake the cake according to the recipe, rather than imagining substitutions and alterations for the first attempt.    

[sillypumpkins]

Great, thank you ricdaw for the response!! I've enjoyed reading your older posts as I've been sniffing out old topics on this subforum.....

[Aion]

Here's another quote that helps to elucidate what Ra is talking about here:

92.25 Questioner: There seems to be a book on the Priestess’s lap which is half hidden by the robe or material that covers her right shoulder. It would seem that this indicates that knowledge is available if the veil is lifted but is not only hidden by the veil but hidden partially by her very garment which she must somehow move to become aware of the knowledge which she has available. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. In that the conceit of the volume was not originated by Ra we ask that you release the volume from its strictured form. Your perceptions are quite correct.

The very nature of the feminine principle of mind which, in Ra’s suggestion, was related specifically to what may be termed sanctified sexuality is, itself, without addition, the book which neither the feminine nor the male principle may use until the male principle has reached and penetrated, in a symbolically sexual fashion, the inner secrets of this feminine principle.
All robes, in this case indicating the outer garments of custom, shield these principles. Thusly there is great dynamic tension, if you will, betwixt the Matrix and the Potentiator of the Mind.

This is where the idea of "veiling" first comes up in the order of the Tarot, this veiling of knowledge associated with the High Priestess. In old traditions this was usually depicted as the Torah, but for Ra I feel like the knowledge the book is supposed to symbolize is self-knowledge. Thus, the idea that we are "bisexual beings" in that we each have a masculine and feminine aspect, and one of the keys to penetrating self knowledge is the unification of these two principles in embrace.

In this case, the veil is referring to all the robes or garments, which suggests that nudity would be the opposite symbol for something unveiled. You can see this is in the tradition of the Descent of Ishtar in to the Underworld where at each of the 7 levels she has to remove one of her protective garments until she is completely exposed. The journey in to the underworld is an old symbolic tradition of ego-death and rebirth.

Also, something that is often forgotten in these discussions is the effect of the veiling on 'magical abilites'.

79.33 Questioner: Now, let me be sure I understand you: prior to the change and the extension of free will, let’s take specifically the end of fourth density, magical potential for the condition when there was only service-to-others polarization, magical ability or potential was much greater at the end of fourth density than at the end of fourth density immediately after the split of polarization and the extension of free will. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious. Therefore, there was maximal ability prior to the innovation of sub-Logoi’s free will.

79.32 Questioner: I’m sorry that I have much difficulty in asking these questions, but we’re on material that I find somewhat difficult.
I find it interesting that the very first experiment of veiling Matrix from the Potentiator and vice-versa created service-to-self polarity. This seems to be a very important philosophical point in the development of the creation and possibly the beginning of a system of what we would call magic not envisioned previously.
Let me ask this question. Prior to the extension of first distortion was the magical potential of the higher densities as great as it is now when the greatest potential was achieved in consciousness for each density? This is difficult to ask. What I am saying is at the end of fourth density, prior to the extension of free will, was the magical potential, what we call magic, as great, or the ability, or the effect as great as it is now at the end of fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. As you understand, if we may use this misnomer, magic, the magical potential in third and fourth density was then far greater than after the change. However, there was far, far less desire or will to use this potential.

I've always found this to be a profound statement and one which reflects my intuition. The idea that there was perhaps a time when humans had a much greater magical capability due less veiling. However, this is interesting in this light in that the veil seem to spurn more desire for people to actually pursue the use of such abilities.

It maybe also explains why so many people remember past lives where they were capable of things which seem impossible now.

Personally, I'm not convinced that the 'laws of reality' are static.