The Council of Saturn

[Infinite]

I think the informations about the Council of Saturn a bit confusing.

The follow stretch imply they are from eighth density OR live in the eighth level of 3D:

This Council is located in the octave, or eight[h] dimension, of the planet Saturn, taking its place in an area which you understand in third-dimensional terms as the rings.

(6.8)

With "eighth dimension", Ra could being talking as a synonyms of eighth density or as the eighth dimension of the third density of Saturn. The latter makes more sense to me as I explain below:

***********************************
But here, Ra imply the members of the Council are from Confederation AND from 3D time/space of Earth:

The members of the Council are representatives from the Confederation and from those vibratory levels of your inner planes bearing responsibility for your third density.

(7.9)

This stretch would indicate that there are 3D ascended masters together with Confederation's members leading the Earth evolution. Personally, they being the most illuminated, seems to me that naturally they are responsabile by us.

Including, Ra said Mark Probert is one of the less distorted sources about the Council:

The Council of Nine has been retained in semi-undistorted form by two main sources, that known in your naming, as Mark and that known in your naming as Henry. In one case, the channel became the scribe. In the other, the channel was not the scribe. However, without the aid of the scribe, the energy would not have come to the channel.

(7.10)

Well, I read some writings of him, and one of the "guardians" that was guiding Probert was Yada. Yada is an ascended master. He lived in Earth millennia ago. So, we can assume that the Council has 3D ascended entities between them.

Here Ra talks about one of the functions of the Council:

One, the duty of admitting social memory complexes to the Confederation;

(7.9)

It's seems to me that a beginner 4D entity couldn't do this. So, I assume that the Council has mixed density level entities, the 3D ascended masters responsible for us, and advanced Confederation entities, probably from higher densities.

With all this, I suppose the "eighth dimension" of Saturn quoted by Ra isn't the eight density, but the eighth dimension of the 3D level. Because I don't think that ascended masters could be support the light of the eighth density. If this would possible, the evolution would no make any sense.

What you think about?

[zvonimir]

Information is available in the book The only planet of choice ,and you can search the forum for Council of Nine there were few years ago some discussions about them .

[moyal]

...and that known in your naming as Henry.
(7.10)

After reading through all of his works, I now think this is "Henry T. Laurency".

-> https://laurency.com/introduc.htm

The core of Laurency's teaching is the 2nd Chapter of 'The Philosopher’s Stone'. It is the 'key' to understand Ra.

This pdf gives a summing up of his teachings:
-> https://www.laurency.com/Fke/Fke.pdf

I strongly recommend you all to read it.

[zvonimir]

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...ht=Council

[Infinite]

After reading through all of his works, I now think this is "Henry T. Laurency".

Nope. In the following question Ra confirms that was Henry Puharich:

7.11 Questioner: The names you spoke of, are they Mark Probert and Henry Puharich?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

But thanks by your recommendation.

[kristina]

I think the informations about the Council of Saturn a bit confusing.

The follow stretch imply they are from eighth density OR live in the eighth level of 3D:

This Council is located in the octave, or eight[h] dimension, of the planet Saturn, taking its place in an area which you understand in third-dimensional terms as the rings.

(6.8)

With "eighth dimension", Ra could being talking as a synonyms of eighth density or as the eighth dimension of the third density of Saturn. The latter makes more sense to me as I explain below:

***********************************
But here, Ra imply the members of the Council are from Confederation AND from 3D time/space of Earth:

The members of the Council are representatives from the Confederation and from those vibratory levels of your inner planes bearing responsibility for your third density.

(7.9)

This stretch would indicate that there are 3D ascended masters together with Confederation's members leading the Earth evolution. Personally, they being the most illuminated, seems to me that naturally they are responsabile by us.

Including, Ra said Mark Probert is one of the less distorted sources about the Council:

The Council of Nine has been retained in semi-undistorted form by two main sources, that known in your naming, as Mark and that known in your naming as Henry. In one case, the channel became the scribe. In the other, the channel was not the scribe. However, without the aid of the scribe, the energy would not have come to the channel.

(7.10)

Well, I read some writings of him, and one of the "guardians" that was guiding Probert was Yada. Yada is an ascended master. He lived in Earth millennia ago. So, we can assume that the Council has 3D ascended entities between them.

Here Ra talks about one of the functions of the Council:

One, the duty of admitting social memory complexes to the Confederation;

(7.9)

It's seems to me that a beginner 4D entity couldn't do this. So, I assume that the Council has mixed density level entities, the 3D ascended masters responsible for us, and advanced Confederation entities, probably from higher densities.

With all this, I suppose the "eighth dimension" of Saturn quoted by Ra isn't the eight density, but the eighth dimension of the 3D level. Because I don't think that ascended masters could be support the light of the eighth density. If this would possible, the evolution would no make any sense.

What you think about?

Just for fun...https://www.universetoday.com/38097/how-many-rings-does-saturn-have/#7s8d6f87
Saturn is just like the Earth, correct? And is moving through the densities. This could be why in many cases Don did not have the knowledge to understand the mathematics for certain locations within the universe.
I find it kind of neat that Saturn has 8 visible rings from 3rd density perspective.

[Jim Kent +]

I think the informations about the Council of Saturn a bit confusing.

The follow stretch imply they are from eighth density OR live in the eighth level of 3D:

This Council is located in the octave, or eight[h] dimension, of the planet Saturn, taking its place in an area which you understand in third-dimensional terms as the rings.

(6.8)

With "eighth dimension", Ra could being talking as a synonyms of eighth density or as the eighth dimension of the third density of Saturn. The latter makes more sense to me as I explain below:

***********************************
But here, Ra imply the members of the Council are from Confederation AND from 3D time/space of Earth:

The members of the Council are representatives from the Confederation and from those vibratory levels of your inner planes bearing responsibility for your third density.

(7.9)

What you think about?

Greetings Infinite, 

I personally interpret Ra's words to mean that The Council Of Saturn reside on the 8th level of 3rd Density, not the 8th level of this Universe, i.e the next Universe / Creation.

As they are responsible for allowing entities entry into The Confederation, it makes sense to me that those just entering 4th density - 8th Sub-Density of 3rd Density - would encounter decision-makers on entry into The Confederation at the beginning of 4th Density, not the beginning of the next Universe / Creation.

I think I remember Carla saying when we met that The Council Of Saturn were 6th Density members of The Confederation, but not necessarily those of the Ra SMC.

Regarding the second sentence you quoted above and I've re-quoted, I don't think they mean that The Council are from / of the 3rd Density, but share the same level with those responsible for 3rd Density, which I guess would be at least 4th Density or above and possibly / probably of 6th Density?

L & L

Jim     

[Infinite]

I personally interpret Ra's words to mean that The Council Of Saturn reside on the 8th level of 3rd Density, not the 8th level of this Universe, i.e the next Universe / Creation.

Yes. I think the same, despite Ra used "density" and "dimension" interchangeably.

As they are responsible for allowing entities entry into The Confederation, it makes sense to me that those just entering 4th density - 8th Sub-Density of 3rd Density - would encounter decision-makers on entry into The Confederation at the beginning of 4th Density, not the beginning of the next Universe / Creation.

I can't understand the whole of your sentence. But I suppose you meant that would not make sense eighth density entities be responsible to admit new members in Confederation. That makes sense to me. Anyway, I just think strange the Council responsible to lead a Confederation of many worlds be based justly on our solar system.

I think I remember Carla saying when we met that The Council Of Saturn were 6th Density members of The Confederation, but not necessarily those of the Ra SMC.

Are you Jim McCarty?  

Regarding the second sentence you quoted above and I've re-quoted, I don't think they mean that The Council are from / of the 3rd Density, but share the same level with those responsible for 3rd Density, which I guess would be at least 4th Density or above and possibly / probably of 6th Density?

The Council seems to me of a mixed density nature. Beginners in 4th Density (Ascended Masters from Earth ) and higher densities beings from Confederation.

[Jim Kent +]

As they are responsible for allowing entities entry into The Confederation, it makes sense to me that those just entering 4th density - 8th Sub-Density of 3rd Density - would encounter decision-makers on entry into The Confederation at the beginning of 4th Density, not the beginning of the next Universe / Creation.

I can't understand the whole of your sentence. But I suppose you meant that would not make sense eighth density entities be responsible to admit new members in Confederation. That makes sense to me. Anyway, I just think strange the Council responsible to lead a Confederation of many worlds be based justly on our solar system.

I think I remember Carla saying when we met that The Council Of Saturn were 6th Density members of The Confederation, but not necessarily those of the Ra SMC.

Are you Jim McCarty?  

Hi again, 

Yes I did mean that it does not make sense, to me, for 8th density entities to be responsible for admitting newly 4th density entities into The Confederation.

It is my understanding that The Council of Saturn administer this Solar System and are not necessarily responsible for the whole Confederation, but I might be incorrect?

Perhaps, as their role is that of "Harvesters", they have councils administering all 3rd density planets within Confederation space. ( pure conjecture of course! )

No, I am not Jim McCarty. Jim Kent is my real name and I am a musician and philosopher from Britain.

Carla came to Britain in 2005 for a speaking tour and I arranged to spend a day with her and her travelling companion for a personal session with Q'uo and to get some quality samples for some of my music. 

L & L

Jim     

[Infinite]

Yes I did mean that it does not make sense, to me, for 8th density entities to be responsible for admitting newly 4th density entities into The Confederation.

I agree. So, can we suppose that this answer of Latwii was distorted due the beliefs of the medium about the answer of Ra about the density level of the Council?

I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my sister. These entities are as you have described but newly admitted to the Confederation and are not those who are of the Council. Those of th

It is my understanding that The Council of Saturn administer this Solar System and are not necessarily responsible for the whole Confederation, but I might be incorrect?

Well, I really have no idea. We would have to ask to them rsrs.

No, I am not Jim McCarty. Jim Kent is my real name and I am a musician and philosopher from Britain.

I'm sorry by my mistake.

 

[flofrog]

Yes I did mean that it does not make sense, to me, for 8th density entities to be responsible for admitting newly 4th density entities into The Confederation.

I agree. So, can we suppose that this answer of Latwii was distorted due the beliefs of the medium about the answer of Ra about the density level of the Council?

I agree with you Infinite, and with Jim

[unity100]

I find 8th of 3d a bit unlikely. An entity which is 8th of 3d should not be able to residen in rings of Saturn, in an incarnated or disincarnated state.

The members of the Council are representatives from the Confederation and from those vibratory levels of your inner planes bearing responsibility for your third density.

This seems to signal function/responsibility than nature. Entities of 8d may be responsible for activities of 3d in this solar system.

[Ymarsakar]

To address this subject, my hs recommends the spirit science video on dimensions. Essentially, kryon s musical 4s and 8ths are octaves. But octaves are not just universes. They are how the fractal of creation expands and contracts. That is why there is a sub density.


The council of saturn kind of feels like the divine counsel of gods described by psalm 82. Astrological saturn also fits. Feels like 6th to 7th density.

[Infinite]

I find 8th of 3d a bit unlikely. An entity which is 8th of 3d should not be able to residen in rings of Saturn, in an incarnated or disincarnated state.

Why not? The third density has eight levels, the eighth been a octave. But I agree the terminology of Ra sometimes creates confusion. Density and dimension were used interchangeable.

This seems to signal function/responsibility than nature. Entities of 8d may be responsible for activities of 3d in this solar system.

Read the books of Mark Probert (Ra spoke that Probert is one of less distorted sources about the Council). The Guardians of Probert are Ascended Masters (4D entities). Ra also said that earthlings who came to ascension are part of Confederation.

[zvonimir]

for those who dont have it here is Yada the magic bag book by probert....

https://easyupload.io/bipihq

[unity100]

I find 8th of 3d a bit unlikely. An entity which is 8th of 3d should not be able to residen in rings of Saturn, in an incarnated or disincarnated state.

Why not? The third density has eight levels, the eighth been a octave. But I agree the terminology of Ra sometimes creates confusion. Density and dimension were used interchangeable.

The 8th of 3d is still physical 3d. The entity in such sub-density cannot exist or survive outside what 3d provides. There is no means for a 3d entity to survive on rings of Saturn.


[quoteRead the books of Mark Probert (Ra spoke that Probert is one of less distorted sources about the Council). The Guardians of Probert are Ascended Masters (4D entities). Ra also said that earthlings who came to ascension are part of Confederation.
[/quote]

I very much have the opinion that even the sources which Ra claims 'least distorted' are quite distorted.

The very 'ascended master' concept is a questionable concept from the start - it harkens to Christian spiritual tradition of ascension. If the original 200~ entities from Earth who were harvestable at the end of 2nd density is mentioned by 'ascended masters', these entities are merely early 4d yet - which is not so greatly different from late 3d.

[Infinite]

The 8th of 3d is still physical 3d. The entity in such sub-density cannot exist or survive outside what 3d provides. There is no means for a 3d entity to survive on rings of Saturn.

In the really, I see the sub-densities of 3D as the planes described by esoteric sources. Physical, astral, mental, etc. The eight dimension being a state beyond the seventh dimension (which I call buddhic plane) where the awareness is in total oneness with intelligent infinity. So, the Council doesn't exist in the three-dimensional region of the Saturn's rings, but in a kind of "eight-dimensional" area.

The very 'ascended master' concept is a questionable concept from the start - it harkens to Christian spiritual tradition of ascension. If the original 200~ entities from Earth who were harvestable at the end of 2nd density is mentioned by 'ascended masters', these entities are merely early 4d yet - which is not so greatly different from late 3d.

An ascended master is someone who harvested himself, not through the harvest. It's the summit of 3D beings.

[unity100]

The 8th of 3d is still physical 3d. The entity in such sub-density cannot exist or survive outside what 3d provides. There is no means for a 3d entity to survive on rings of Saturn.

In the really, I see the sub-densities of 3D as the planes described by esoteric sources. Physical, astral, mental, etc. The eight dimension being a state beyond the seventh dimension (which I call buddhic plane) where the awareness is in total oneness with intelligent infinity. So, the Council doesn't exist in the three-dimensional region of the Saturn's rings, but in a kind of "eight-dimensional" area.

However one sees subdensities of 3d, they are still not at a level which they could enable an entity to exist in rings of Saturn, be it in physical plane, be it in astral plane. Astral existence also requires an environment.

Even if in time/space, the complementary astral portion of a subdensity would reflect the nature of the nature of its complementary physical portion.

An ascended master is someone who harvested himself, not through the harvest. It's the summit of 3D beings.

Depends on the resulting density of the harvested entity which harvested itself. A 3d entity which harvested itself may end up in 4d vibration. A 5d entity which harvested itself may end up in 5d vibration, or a higher vibration. It totally depends.

[Infinite]

However one sees subdensities of 3d, they are still not at a level which they could enable an entity to exist in rings of Saturn, be it in physical plane, be it in astral plane. Astral existence also requires an environment.

Even if in time/space, the complementary astral portion of a subdensity would reflect the nature of the nature of its complementary physical portion.

I'm not really understanding your doubt. For example, even in astral plane someone can survive in outer space without problems. The time/space portion of 3D has not the same laws of space/time.

Depends on the resulting density of the harvested entity which harvested itself.  A 3d entity which harvested itself may end up in 4d vibration. A 5d entity which harvested itself may end up in 5d vibration, or a higher vibration. It totally depends.

Of course. I was talking about a 3D entity ascended to 4D.

[flofrog]

Forgive me for small aside question, would you consider the Confederation mainly of 6th density or a mix with members of higher dimensions ?

[Infinite]

Forgive me for small aside question,  would you consider the Confederation mainly of 6th density or a mix with members of higher dimensions ?

I really don't know if there are 7D entities in Confederation. But, Ra used the term "our teachers". I suppose they are from 7D.

[Sacred Fool]

The Council appears to made up of "Guardians."

In number, the Council that sits in constant session, though varying in its members by means of balancing, which takes place, what you would call irregularly, is nine. That is the Session Council. To back up this Council, there are twenty-four entities which offer their services as requested. These entities faithfully watch and have been called the Guardians.

These Guardians have also been called "gardeners."

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially incorrect. The incorrectness is as follows: those entities whose third-density experience upon your Red Planet was brought to a close prematurely were aided genetically while being transferred to this third density. This, although done in a desire to aid, was seen as infringement upon free will. The light quarantine which consists of the Guardians, or gardeners as you may call them, which would have been in effect thus was intensified.

They protect the free will of entities and watch over the spiritual growth of entities in this star system and perform such functions as supervising souls' walking along the stairs of light, defining and enforcing the quarantine, etc.

Questioner: I didn’t quite understand. How does the Confederation stop the Orion chariot from coming through the quarantine? What actions do…

Ra: I am Ra. There is contact at the level of light-form or lightbody-being depending upon the vibratory level of the guardian. These guardians sweep reaches of your Earth’s energy fields attempting to be aware of any entities approaching. An entity which is approaching is hailed in the name of the One Creator. Any entity thus hailed is bathed in love/light and will of free will obey the quarantine due to the power of the Law of One.

I don't see 3d or 4d entities performing these roles, and here's the clincher.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light-bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

  

[kristina]

Forgive me for small aside question,  would you consider the Confederation mainly of 6th density or a mix with members of higher dimensions ?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth-density Confederation entity looks variously depending upon the, shall we say, derivation of its physical vehicle.

From 41.26

Our sixth-density work was also accelerated because of the harmony of our social memory complex so that we were able to set out as members of the Confederation to even more swiftly approach graduation to seventh density.

It seems there are 4th density members and 6th density as well and I am unsire about 5th density members.
Hope this helps Flo!

[flofrog]

Thank you Infinite, Peregrine and Kristina, for taking the time and sending all those quotes !

you are lovely friends !

[kristina]

Thank you Infinite, Peregrine and Kristina, for taking the time and sending all those quotes !

you are lovely friends !  

Anything for you!

[Infinite]

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light-bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

These guardians of another octave don't seem to be the same of Council. 

[Sacred Fool]

These guardians of another octave don't seem to be the same of Council. 

The way I read the text, the membership of the gardener group of nine is fluid--that is, any of the helpers can move into council seats as needed ("...varying in its members...")--and they are all higher octave guardians.  What indicates to you that they are actually of this octave?
   
  

[Infinite]

What indicates to you that they are actually of this octave?

The Council are formed by ascended masters (4D entities who harvested themselves) and Confederation members, as this excerpt shows:

The members of the Council are representatives from the Confederation and from those vibratory levels of your inner planes bearing responsibility for your third density.

(7.9)

In the answer about the harvest, Ra spoke about three levels. Confederation and the Guardians are stated as different levels:

There are those of three levels watching over harvest.

[...]

The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their higher self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light-bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

(51.1)

**********

I really don't know if there are 7D entities in Confederation. But, Ra used the term "our teachers". I suppose they are from 7D.

I forgot that answer:

Firstly, we do not have complete knowledge of this octave. There are portions of the seventh density which, although described to us by our teachers, remain mysterious.

(81.16)

That confirms the teachers of Ra are from seventh density.

[Sacred Fool]

 
Well, you are infinitely free to believe whatever you like, but I don't see that your interpretation is 100% verified by the text.  "Guardians" from the octave are in our inner planes because this is where they are doing there gardening work, that is, here in our inner planes.  The fact that they are working in our inner planes does not make them ascended 3d masters any more than angels working in our inner planes are ascended masters, it seems to me.

Also, just because Ra's teachers explained 7d to them doesn't mean they understand it all, any more than we understand all of 4d just because we have read some teachings about it.  Much of 4d remains mysterious to us, I would suppose.
 
 

[Infinite]

 
"Guardians" from the octave are in our inner planes because this is where they are doing there gardening work, that is, here in our inner planes.  The fact that they are working in our inner planes does not make them ascended 3d masters any more than angels working in our inner planes are ascended masters, it seems to me.

My view is based in two things.

First, the use of the word "from" by Ra. That indicates an origin. If the entity is not from outside the Earth (confederate), is earthling.

In second place, Ra said one of less distorted sources about the Council is Mark Probert. If you read his channelings, the Guardians he channeled were historical personalities which evolved on Earth. These beings have been called by many names. Masters of Wisdom, Mahatma, White Brotherhood, etc. I call them Ascended Masters.

Also, just because Ra's teachers explained 7d to them doesn't mean they understand it all, any more than we understand all of 4d just because we have read some teachings about it.  Much of 4d remains mysterious to us, I would suppose.

That's another question. I was answering flofrog about her doubt. I just suppose Ra's teachers can be from 7D or higher density. Thus, Confederation could have members beyond 6D.