Hardest catalyst to understand

[Loki]

I believe the mental pain resulted from the physical pain of someone we love is the hardest catalyst to process.
And if the entity that suffers is 3D that pain might make some sense in the big picture of spiritual evolution.
However I cannot comprehend suffering at 2D level and certainly the catalyst is really tough to process on my side.

Can someone explain to me why the 2D physical suffering is necessary considering the fact that there is no spiritual gain for the entity that suffers? 4D, 5D, 6D don't have to deal with physical suffering why isn't 2D spared of it?

What is the "positive" (talking about big picture) a 3D gets from a 2D physical suffering?
How can I be positive about it knowing how useless that suffering is?

[Diana]

I get it totally. 2D suffering is something I find so hard to deal with.

Nature left to itself is bad enough. 

But what humans have done to all of 2D, all life on this planet and the planet itself, is intolerable. From "controlled" burns to factory farms to zoos and circuses to fracking to cutting down large swaths of rain forest and on and on—the suffering humankind has and is causing is deplorable.

I happen to think it is horrible that we as a species would gain anything from causing such suffering to creatures and entities less aware or to this planet, our home. If humans want to progress spiritually they should stick to hurting each other if they must, and leave the true innocents alone. 

[AnthroHeart]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

[Diana]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

[Ray711]

Perhaps what reconciles this is the notion that there is nothing but the Creator in existence. Both the animal and the human treating the animal badly are the one and only entity; the Creator, being both victim and perpetrator. Exploiting Itself, causing pain onto Itself.

[Loki]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I agree. If anything a killed deer misses an opportunity to evolve at its level. In fact on this planet is really hard to evolve as wild 2D these days. People always find excuses to kill. Smart native populations around the world woke up and started protecting animals they used to hunt. They understood the end is coming for this way of life.

[Diana]

Perhaps what reconciles this is the notion that there is nothing but the Creator in existence. Both the animal and the human treating the animal badly are the one and only entity; the Creator, being both victim and perpetrator. Exploiting Itself, causing pain onto Itself.

That may or may not be true, and is only a theory, and in my opinion used for the idea to continue exploiting 2D. I think it's time for humanity to step up for many reasons, one being the shift to 4D, compassion and respect for all life. 

[Loki]

My post is not about 3D treating badly 2D. it is about 2D (pet) suffering (cancer).
What is the 2D suffering for when there is no conscious evolution? Why are they not exempt from suffering like all 4,5 ,6D are?
How can I find this catalyst positive on my side?

[Kaaron]

To appreciate the perfection, the creator creates imperfection.
I've always had a problem or issue, with relativity.
The 2D entities are learning self sacrifice, as a means of teaching other selves, forgiveness of self.
3D humans are learning through the catalyst of karma. They are learning what they are not.
It is similar to the elite.
We wanted an experience of separation.
They provide fertile grounds for understanding the choice.

[Minyatur]

I believe the mental pain resulted from the physical pain of someone we love is the hardest catalyst to process.
And if the entity that suffers is 3D that pain might make some sense in the big picture of spiritual evolution.
However I cannot comprehend suffering at 2D level and certainly the catalyst is really tough to process on my side.

Can someone explain to me why the 2D physical suffering is necessary considering the fact that there is no spiritual gain for the entity that suffers?  4D, 5D, 6D don't have to deal with physical suffering why isn't 2D spared of it?

What is the "positive" (talking about big picture) a 3D gets from a 2D physical suffering?  
How can I be positive about it knowing how useless that suffering is?

I don't think there is all that much of a difference between 2D and 3D entities. I would even venture to say that pain in 3D relates a whole lot to how close we still are to 2D, we have it by extension. To find acceptance of pain in humans, I really tend to always bring it down to 2D and how it is a part of nature. Outside the human drama, there is a deer somewhere that broke its leg and died of a fever and that had nothing whatsoever to do with us as humans. So everything is not about us and to understand the way of things we have to move away from a view centered upon ourselves and our evolution.

Each density has its catalysts to propell evolution and pain in 2D should relate to be a catalyst for self-realization and moving toward 3D.

Beyond that, I believe the One seeks to experience itself in various and complex ways and for this I believe that in 2D a lot of biases are accumulated to create a unique path and journey. The reason why the highest service is merely the offering of the self is because what we are experiencing as the One experiencing the One is infinite opportunity. Tripping on a rock, meeting a predator, falling in love, etc, is infinite opportunity and meeting the Creator as the Creator. Each expression of the Creator, as a multidimensional entity, seeks to be a unique aspect of unity in its very being. So while a lot of things may seem unfair, they become understood at a later point of an entity's journey and everything is seen as bound in free will.

[Ray711]

That may or may not be true, and is only a theory, and in my opinion used for the idea to continue exploiting 2D. I think it's time for humanity to step up for many reasons, one being the shift to 4D, compassion and respect for all life. 

The idea is to move past it, of course. Some parts of the Creator learning how to be in higher communion with other parts. I just feel that even though the process may be painful, the end result is always well, when we consider that even death itself is only an illusion.

My post is not about 3D treating badly 2D. it is about 2D (pet) suffering (cancer).
What is the 2D suffering for when there is no conscious evolution?  Why are they not exempt from suffering like all 4,5 ,6D are?
How can I find this catalyst positive on my side?

While animal's can feel great pain, they have an advantage over us. By lacking self-awareness and the capacity for complex abstract thought, they don't have the kind of mind that amplifies their pain. We humans tend to be so dominated by our minds, that any pain we feel is greatly amplified by letting our minds over-indulge in all of the narratives created around such pain. These mental discourses create more negative emotions, which in turn create more and worse negative thoughts, which then create even more and worse negative emotions... and on and on and on. Animals don't have to deal with this at all.

Ra also mentions that 3rd density is the only density with the veil, and Q'uo goes as far as saying that having no veil gives animals a sense of inner-knowing, or intuition, about the inter-connectedness and harmony of all that there is.

[Loki]

This is the understanding that I missed. Does this suffering before passing give a 2D some sort of spiritual evolution or may conscious evolution? If yes I gladly accept my share of pain. At the end of the day consciousness must evolve somehow in species to move from 2D to 3D without the help of another 3D to be inspired from. Maybe a death which is not sudden is that intense lesson that causes the conscious evolution in any 2D wild or domesticated.

[Kaaron]

This is the understanding that I missed. Does this suffering before passing give a 2D some sort of spiritual evolution or may conscious evolution? If yes I gladly accept my share of pain. At the end of the day consciousness must evolve somehow in species to move from 2D to 3D without the help of another 3D to be inspired from. Maybe a death which is not sudden is that intense lesson that causes the conscious evolution in any 2D wild or domesticated.

I was watching a video of Pamela Aaralyn.
She was channeling Heylel and said that 2D will often leave their bodies, when inevitable pain or imminent death approaches.
The creator will not let senseless pain occur.
The same applies for all physical densities.

[Diana]

I was watching a video of Pamela Aaralyn.
She was channeling Heylel and said that 2D will often leave their bodies, when inevitable pain or imminent death approaches.
The creator will not let senseless pain occur.
The same applies for all physical densities.

That may be true in the natural world. But if you have ever seen factory farms, or animals going to slaughter and being slaughtered, you will know that pain and suffering do happen. Even if were true, that animals going to slaughter leave their bodies, is it compassionate to kill them for no good reason? And what about the animals kept penned all their lives in horrific conditions—when do they leave their bodies?

There is no getting around the needless human use and abuse of animals, no matter how anyone might sugarcoat it.

[Diana]

That may or may not be true, and is only a theory, and in my opinion used for the idea to continue exploiting 2D. I think it's time for humanity to step up for many reasons, one being the shift to 4D, compassion and respect for all life. 

The idea is to move past it, of course. Some parts of the Creator learning how to be in higher communion with other parts. I just feel that even though the process may be painful, the end result is always well, when we consider that even death itself is only an illusion.

Everything you said above is theory only. I personally don't see any of it as justification for torturing, enslaving, and killing animals.

My post is not about 3D treating badly 2D. it is about 2D (pet) suffering (cancer).
What is the 2D suffering for when there is no conscious evolution?  Why are they not exempt from suffering like all 4,5 ,6D are?
How can I find this catalyst positive on my side?

What you are suggesting above, and what the LOO says and Ra has communicated, is only conjecture no matter how much one might resonate with it. What we do know is what is, now, here. Sadly I see no sensible answer to your question. All I can say is—and I have had pets whom I loved dearly—is to love your pet as much as you can, and try not to think of yourself. In other words, try to stay focused on being of service to your pet.

[Kaaron]

I was watching a video of Pamela Aaralyn.
She was channeling Heylel and said that 2D will often leave their bodies, when inevitable pain or imminent death approaches.
The creator will not let senseless pain occur.
The same applies for all physical densities.

That may be true in the natural world. But if you have ever seen factory farms, or animals going to slaughter and being slaughtered, you will know that pain and suffering do happen. Even if were true, that animals going to slaughter leave their bodies, is it compassionate to kill them for no good reason? And what about the animals kept penned all their lives in horrific conditions—when do they leave their bodies?

There is no getting around the needless human use and abuse of animals, no matter how anyone might sugarcoat it.

Well it would be needless if there weren't humans involved.
The ones keeping them and slaughtering are definitely learning something.
To assume it is being done against the will of the animals, is to misunderstand catalyst and how we learn.
I don't like having people attack me for forgiving them. Projecting issues onto another is part of duality though and pain is part of growth.
I don't know when they leave their bodies...maybe they go into a place of zen at such times. Maybe they don't. The universe has a wide range of diverse learning mechanisms.
Alot seem f***** up n unnecessary to me. But I'm going through it...so I guess hindsight n perspective are the point.
We go through pain. We get to assess the meaning at the time but unless we are balanced and see all as love, as Ra suggests, the events make little sense.
Post incarnation is where we seem to arrange the experiences into a cohesive lesson.
There is no sugar coating it...cos it's not bad.
There is simply what is.
The creator is a narcissistic a****** who let's itself go through subjective hell, to appreciate itself.
We obviously chose this...so we are just as self serving as the entire creation...and then we get all cut up like "why do we do this to ourselves?"
Answer: We are an extension of the self serving creator.

[kristina]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals

I totally agree Diane. If a "Native American" hunter said I am so hungry and so is my family and then suddenly a deer walks up and says, "well shoot me", is just silly and not even logical or spiritually sound. I am giggling as I type this because I can see this in my head and it makes no sense. A 3rd density entity has self awareness and individuality. Part of third density is "the choice" so we have that also. If someone chooses to give their life for another then they are making a conscious choice to do so. Game animals do not generally behave this way even if they are headed for third density consciousness.
Further, it is very sad when we watch any "one" suffer and die at the hands of another. This is the way of third density Earth. Welcome to Earth where life is a living paradox! Get me outta here A.S.A.P!

[kristina]

Perhaps what reconciles this is the notion that there is nothing but the Creator in existence. Both the animal and the human treating the animal badly are the one and only entity; the Creator, being both victim and perpetrator. Exploiting Itself, causing pain onto Itself.

That may or may not be true, and is only a theory, and in my opinion used for the idea to continue exploiting 2D. I think it's time for humanity to step up for many reasons, one being the shift to 4D, compassion and respect for all life. 

Yeah we are all for it but what about the rest of the inhabitants of Earth? If you want that kind of peace you will have to wait unti 4th density because it will never happen here, never.

[kristina]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I agree. If anything a killed deer misses an opportunity to evolve at its level. In fact on this planet is really hard to evolve as wild 2D these days. People always find excuses to kill. Smart native populations around the world woke up and started protecting animals they used to hunt. They understood the end is coming for this way of life.

I believe that is not true, it will reincarnate with a new vehicle that serves it better, if it dies, it was time for a new opportunity.

[Kaaron]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals

I totally agree Diane. If a "Native American" hunter said I am so hungry and so is my family and then suddenly a deer walks up and says, "well shoot me", is just silly and not even logical or spiritually sound. I am giggling as I type this because I can see this in my head and it makes no sense. A 3rd density entity has self awareness and individuality. Part of third density is "the choice" so we have that also. If someone chooses to give their life for another then they are making a conscious choice to do so. Game animals do not generally behave this way even if they are headed for third density consciousness.  
Further, it is very sad when we watch any "one" suffer and die at the hands of another. This is the way of third density Earth. Welcome to Earth where life is a living paradox! Get me outta here A.S.A.P!

I feel like most don't understand life.
If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.
2D has elements of hive mind.
This is important to realize.
They sacrifice themselves for the good of another. This is pure love from the creator.
They are reincarnated...perhaps as a member of the tribe.
The same philosophy exists in Maori culture.
There is no past or future...only now.
The warriors do not fear death...as we understand the reincarnation process and when we die...it is not the end.
We put our lives on the line and die...knowing we did so, protecting the family we will return to.
I feel like alot of the western thinking, places far too much importance on the act of living and not enough on the lessons learned, doing so.
Life is just a canvas.
We are the paint and artist.
How one enters and exits is of little significance. How we respond to catalyst and lifes circumstances, is where the lessons lie.
Just like the animal who gives up its hive mind...to be reborn.

[AnthroHeart]

Exactly Kaaron. You said it better than I could.

[kristina]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals

I totally agree Diane. If a "Native American" hunter said I am so hungry and so is my family and then suddenly a deer walks up and says, "well shoot me", is just silly and not even logical or spiritually sound. I am giggling as I type this because I can see this in my head and it makes no sense. A 3rd density entity has self awareness and individuality. Part of third density is "the choice" so we have that also. If someone chooses to give their life for another then they are making a conscious choice to do so. Game animals do not generally behave this way even if they are headed for third density consciousness.  
Further, it is very sad when we watch any "one" suffer and die at the hands of another. This is the way of third density Earth. Welcome to Earth where life is a living paradox! Get me outta here A.S.A.P!

I feel like most don't understand life.
If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.
2D has elements of hive mind.
This is important to realize.
They sacrifice themselves for the good of another. This is pure love from the creator.
They are reincarnated...perhaps as a member of the tribe.
The same philosophy exists in Maori culture.
There is no past or future...only now.
The warriors do not fear death...as we understand the reincarnation process and when we die...it is not the end.
We put our lives on the line and die...knowing we did so, protecting the family we will return to.
I feel like alot of the western thinking, places far too much importance on the act of living and not enough on the lessons learned, doing so.
Life is just a canvas.
We are the paint and artist.
How one enters and exits is of little significance. How we respond to catalyst and lifes circumstances, is where the lessons lie.
Just like the animal who gives up its hive mind...to be reborn.

If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.

Then why does the deer take flight? If it knows it is food for us? It is not under the veil of forgetting like 3rd density is. So, then why does it take flight if it already knows what it is there for?

[Kaaron]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals

I totally agree Diane. If a "Native American" hunter said I am so hungry and so is my family and then suddenly a deer walks up and says, "well shoot me", is just silly and not even logical or spiritually sound. I am giggling as I type this because I can see this in my head and it makes no sense. A 3rd density entity has self awareness and individuality. Part of third density is "the choice" so we have that also. If someone chooses to give their life for another then they are making a conscious choice to do so. Game animals do not generally behave this way even if they are headed for third density consciousness.  
Further, it is very sad when we watch any "one" suffer and die at the hands of another. This is the way of third density Earth. Welcome to Earth where life is a living paradox! Get me outta here A.S.A.P!

I feel like most don't understand life.
If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.
2D has elements of hive mind.
This is important to realize.
They sacrifice themselves for the good of another. This is pure love from the creator.
They are reincarnated...perhaps as a member of the tribe.
The same philosophy exists in Maori culture.
There is no past or future...only now.
The warriors do not fear death...as we understand the reincarnation process and when we die...it is not the end.
We put our lives on the line and die...knowing we did so, protecting the family we will return to.
I feel like alot of the western thinking, places far too much importance on the act of living and not enough on the lessons learned, doing so.
Life is just a canvas.
We are the paint and artist.
How one enters and exits is of little significance. How we respond to catalyst and lifes circumstances, is where the lessons lie.
Just like the animal who gives up its hive mind...to be reborn.

If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.

Then why does the deer take flight? If it knows it is food for us? It is not under the veil of forgetting like 3rd density is. So, then why does it take flight if it already knows what it is there for?

Perhaps it hasn't learned its lessons.
Perhaps the one who offers up its life, is 2D harvest ready.
Why does a monk meditate as he faces certain death, while the taxi driver screams as he is repeatedly stabbed?
It is a matter of awareness.

[Loki]

I disagree in that I think that suffering of 2D accelerates them towards 3D.
At least when the animal chooses to give its life.
I think that when a deer dies to feed a native american hunter, that can be a positive spiritual
benefit to the animal.

I don't believe it's positive for the 3D to hurt a 2D, so I can't say for sure.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals

I totally agree Diane. If a "Native American" hunter said I am so hungry and so is my family and then suddenly a deer walks up and says, "well shoot me", is just silly and not even logical or spiritually sound. I am giggling as I type this because I can see this in my head and it makes no sense. A 3rd density entity has self awareness and individuality. Part of third density is "the choice" so we have that also. If someone chooses to give their life for another then they are making a conscious choice to do so. Game animals do not generally behave this way even if they are headed for third density consciousness.  
Further, it is very sad when we watch any "one" suffer and die at the hands of another. This is the way of third density Earth. Welcome to Earth where life is a living paradox! Get me outta here A.S.A.P!

I feel like most don't understand life.
If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.
2D has elements of hive mind.
This is important to realize.
They sacrifice themselves for the good of another. This is pure love from the creator.
They are reincarnated...perhaps as a member of the tribe.
The same philosophy exists in Maori culture.
There is no past or future...only now.
The warriors do not fear death...as we understand the reincarnation process and when we die...it is not the end.
We put our lives on the line and die...knowing we did so, protecting the family we will return to.
I feel like alot of the western thinking, places far too much importance on the act of living and not enough on the lessons learned, doing so.
Life is just a canvas.
We are the paint and artist.
How one enters and exits is of little significance. How we respond to catalyst and lifes circumstances, is where the lessons lie.
Just like the animal who gives up its hive mind...to be reborn.

If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.

Then why does the deer take flight? If it knows it is food for us? It is not under the veil of forgetting like 3rd density is. So, then why does it take flight if it already knows what it is there for?

I think this can be explain by space/time time/space duality. At metaphysical time/space level animals know maybe better what is the world intended for but at space/time level their understanding has limits given by their own chemical vehicle. This is why they run because the red ray is paramount and the scent of danger is part of their DNA. But also higher self o a deer is aware about the limitation of this phase in evolution. I guess creation used this process to provide food and some level of experience of the entities that are to become food. However factory farms and hunting for pleasure are abominations and this is one of the factors that causes the planet warming. Humanity is obsessed with the word "more"

[kristina]

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals. They have a strong instinct for survival, and, a nervous system that registers pain.

Because humanity wants (not needs) to consume animals at this point, why cause this suffering? Why wouldn't it be just okay for our 2D animal brothers and sisters to advance through love, not pain, suffering, and the death resulting from that? I sincerely doubt a cow would choose to live out its life in a factory farm. I have many deer friends, who have come to my property. Some of them, I can tell, have advanced awareness possibly from interaction with 3D entities. Would it be better that they advanced instead because a bow hunter shot them, they died suffering and in pain? Would a prayer over the deer make this into a transition of love? Certainly, it has more respect and reverence for life when indigenous peoples hunted this way. But it is no longer necessary in today's world to eat animals. So why not let them be, and let them find love not painful death.

I seriously doubt a deer would want to give its life to a hunter, Native American or not. That is the point, to me. No animal "wants" to die, as they are driven by an instinct for survival. A human might give his or her life for others, but it doesn't seem likely in the case of 2D animals

I totally agree Diane. If a "Native American" hunter said I am so hungry and so is my family and then suddenly a deer walks up and says, "well shoot me", is just silly and not even logical or spiritually sound. I am giggling as I type this because I can see this in my head and it makes no sense. A 3rd density entity has self awareness and individuality. Part of third density is "the choice" so we have that also. If someone chooses to give their life for another then they are making a conscious choice to do so. Game animals do not generally behave this way even if they are headed for third density consciousness.  
Further, it is very sad when we watch any "one" suffer and die at the hands of another. This is the way of third density Earth. Welcome to Earth where life is a living paradox! Get me outta here A.S.A.P!

I feel like most don't understand life.
If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.
2D has elements of hive mind.
This is important to realize.
They sacrifice themselves for the good of another. This is pure love from the creator.
They are reincarnated...perhaps as a member of the tribe.
The same philosophy exists in Maori culture.
There is no past or future...only now.
The warriors do not fear death...as we understand the reincarnation process and when we die...it is not the end.
We put our lives on the line and die...knowing we did so, protecting the family we will return to.
I feel like alot of the western thinking, places far too much importance on the act of living and not enough on the lessons learned, doing so.
Life is just a canvas.
We are the paint and artist.
How one enters and exits is of little significance. How we respond to catalyst and lifes circumstances, is where the lessons lie.
Just like the animal who gives up its hive mind...to be reborn.

If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.

Then why does the deer take flight? If it knows it is food for us? It is not under the veil of forgetting like 3rd density is. So, then why does it take flight if it already knows what it is there for?

I think this can be explain by space/time time/space duality. At metaphysical time/space level animals know maybe better what is the world intended for but at space/time level their understanding has limits given by their own chemical vehicle. This is why they run because the red ray is paramount and the scent of danger is part of their DNA. But also higher self o a deer is aware about the limitation of this phase in evolution. I guess creation used this process to provide food and some level of experience of the entities that are to become food. However factory farms and hunting for pleasure are abominations and this is one of the factors that causes the planet warming.  Humanity is obsessed with the word "more"

This is why they run because the red ray is paramount

exactly there are only two rays that are activated in nearly all second density beings and the rest are in potentiation.
The red and orange ray is activated whole all others are in potentiation.
And this is why the do run.
Also, only an invested 2nd density creature (by a 3rd density being) would have the possibility of having it's yellow ray activated unless it were to make efficient use of experience which is rare and a lot more common with household pets.

Humanity is obsessed with the word "more"

Let us all remember here that we are humanity before we cast judgements around. The hunting of animals (though I disagree with hunting), are engaged by many and is good catalyst for the rest of us who do not agree with it. Hunting is an option just as non-hunting is an option. We call this free will. You may or may not use it as you like. I am not being ugly, I am merely stating the facts. Maybe someone disgrees with the way you think, perhaps it is highly offensive to them but you are under the Law of Free Will and you may make your choices as you please whether another likes them, hates them or however it makes them "feel". This is according to the Law of One.

You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

[Diana]

If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.
2D has elements of hive mind.
This is important to realize.
They sacrifice themselves for the good of another. This is pure love from the creator.
They are reincarnated...perhaps as a member of the tribe.

How do you know the deer made that choice? How do you know an animal would sacrifice itself for the good of another? That is not what I see in nature at all. It may be true, but it is still an assumption, in my opinion, to rationalize taking animal life—that it helps them or they help us.

The statement, "If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival," is skewed from what I can observe. Animals only take what they need to survive. Humans take more than they need and that is an understatement. Why would 2D entities agree to be food for 3D entities who don't need the food? Doesn't it sound egocentric/humancentric to think animals on the whole have agreed to help us learn by allowing their lives to be tortured, enslaved, or just cut short because a hunter wanted to kill something (hopefully to eat, but a lot of hunters kill for the sport). What kind of system would allow for such sacrifice? 

The same philosophy exists in Maori culture.
There is no past or future...only now.
The warriors do not fear death...as we understand the reincarnation process and when we die...it is not the end.
We put our lives on the line and die...knowing we did so, protecting the family we will return to.
I feel like alot of the western thinking, places far too much importance on the act of living and not enough on the lessons learned, doing so.
Life is just a canvas.
We are the paint and artist.
How one enters and exits is of little significance. How we respond to catalyst and lifes circumstances, is where the lessons lie.
Just like the animal who gives up its hive mind...to be reborn.

You can say all you want about humans, but let's not pretend to know what the animal kingdom has chosen, especially if that choice serves humans, who are not in a very evolved place in regard to respect for all life.

[kristina]

Deer do not have social memory complexes this does not happen until the fourth density.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

Has the animal kingdom chosen anything, in a larger sense? Only if it has consciousness which is able to do so, which could potentially be the case at another level, but not at this one.

Growth towards 3D is growth towards becoming able to choose as an independent being. Perhaps 2D can be understood in a larger sense as a large number of beings existing in a system in the hope that some of them can grow to a new way of being. The physical world is highly mechanical in its basic way of functioning, and 2D life is likewise. Perhaps the thought behind it all is this: "Let this system run for billions of years, and we'll see what comes out of it." Some growth into 3D may happen, but the overall meaning and purpose is more collective and long-term than it is individual and life-span-term.

For many individual beings in more than one density, catalyst does not succeed in bringing about growth, and suffering and s*** simply happens because it inevitably comes about as a result of the constraints of large, mechanistic systems which mercilessly grind on. I'm convinced that that's a very large part of what the reality of life on Earth is about.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

2D looks to me a great deal like the world of computer software, with the difference that 2D beings are aware, and experience what they are involved in. The physical biosphere is like algorithms on parade, with each "process" given awareness - but for the most part, little choice in what it does and is aware of; it simply unfolds like the logic in a computer program does.

In the world of insects, researchers have discovered stunning simplicity behind complex behavior. It is now known that ants do not communicate in order to schedule who goes to work on what, e.g. to make sure a road is clear and functional, but instead each ant is equipped with a stimulus-response pattern which, when each individual has it, results in the collective behavior. And a type of wasp can be "looped" in its behavior, by re-inserting an obstacle which it had removed; then it repeats, exactly, the complex sequence of behavior it did last time it had removed the obstacle.

In mammals, the "algorithms" are much more complex, and a supercomputer can not yet run something as complex as a mouse brain in real time.

Genetic mutation is much easier to simulate, and virtual "organisms" can both change to maximize their reproduction and even grow new abilities. In the 00's, I read on allegro.cc (a hobbyist game programming forum) about a hobby programmer's "progranisms". Copying themselves with small, random changes, with periodic reboots and deletion of all but the newest, they grew capable of deleting one another.

It seems absurd, but basically the case, that 3D is like an algorithmic being with something "larger" extending in the realm of the psyche.

But compared to 4D consciousness, 3D consciousness - which lacks what in 4D is understood as understanding - is basically like self-aware and self-modifying software.

[Kaaron]

If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival.
2D has elements of hive mind.
This is important to realize.
They sacrifice themselves for the good of another. This is pure love from the creator.
They are reincarnated...perhaps as a member of the tribe.

How do you know the deer made that choice? How do you know an animal would sacrifice itself for the good of another? That is not what I see in nature at all. It may be true, but it is still an assumption, in my opinion, to rationalize taking animal life—that it helps them or they help us.

The statement, "If you are part of the deer memory complex, on some level, you made the choice to exist as food for the 3D beings living within the illusion of hard survival," is skewed from what I can observe. Animals only take what they need to survive. Humans take more than they need and that is an understatement. Why would 2D entities agree to be food for 3D entities who don't need the food? Doesn't it sound egocentric/humancentric to think animals on the whole have agreed to help us learn by allowing their lives to be tortured, enslaved, or just cut short because a hunter wanted to kill something (hopefully to eat, but a lot of hunters kill for the sport). What kind of system would allow for such sacrifice? 

The same philosophy exists in Maori culture.
There is no past or future...only now.
The warriors do not fear death...as we understand the reincarnation process and when we die...it is not the end.
We put our lives on the line and die...knowing we did so, protecting the family we will return to.
I feel like alot of the western thinking, places far too much importance on the act of living and not enough on the lessons learned, doing so.
Life is just a canvas.
We are the paint and artist.
How one enters and exits is of little significance. How we respond to catalyst and lifes circumstances, is where the lessons lie.
Just like the animal who gives up its hive mind...to be reborn.

You can say all you want about humans, but let's not pretend to know what the animal kingdom has chosen, especially if that choice serves humans, who are not in a very evolved place in regard to respect for all life.

We are all one.
Why does anyone agree to be catalyst for another?
Trees make the commitment to being food. They have seeds in fruit which are consumed and then redistributed in faeces.
If we come from animals...maybe we have chosen a particular incarnation as food.
Did the native Americans choose hard survival? Yes.
Do we know why? Perhaps.
I would say that the native Americans philosophy is very STO and about being one with nature.
I'd trust their application of the Law of One, over most westernized thinking, anyday.
That being said...its just as presumptuous to assume things happen to us, that weren't agreed upon, pre-incarnation.
Everything happens perfectly, as an experience of the creator knowing itself.
To say it isn't ethical...is to miss the point.
The creator doesn't give a f*** about what we do.
Why do we feel the right to judge how it learns?
I mean the hive mind may have agreed before it came...that it would be food, in a barren area with little vegetation. There may be some kind of symbiotic relationship, in which they are the food and are thus taken in as new 2D-3D family members.
They treat the animal with love and respect. That the animal dies...could be a blessing.
Some people are still born...do they not learn something?
The length of an incarnation means nothing.
The value of each experience is equal, when speaking in objective terms.
So tell me...why would an animal need more time here? Like they are cutting their experience short.
It's quite feasible that their existence is that of oneness with the native Americans and their transition into 3D, is part of the symbiotic cycle.
To me...it seems human centric to propose that we would even begin to understand this level of free will mechanics.
If it is, it is for a reason.
Perhaps in a perfect world...all would have what they need and no consumption of animals would occur.
But in that world...people wouldn't kill each other. That's seen as catalyst and part of learning...why can't the service of the deer to the hunter and hunter to deer, be viewed in the same light?
You consume fruit and assume it's ok...why? Because you can't hear screams of pain?