The Three Matrix Cards

[Plenum]

Ra offered us a thought that the archetypes could be studied in specific pairs, or triplets, for further insight and synergies.

As with any 'claim', the merit lies in being able to put it to the test, and to see the Yield.

Does it lead to further Integration and Understanding, in other words.

In the past two or three months, I've been relentlessly drawn back to the 3 Matrix Cards.  Not that this is ALL I think about - but when I take care of more pressing catalyst, then this Calling has been an underlying factor and presence.

It's offered the WAY forward in this time of my personal seeking.

/ /

So the 3 Matrix cards are thus.

Card 1 - the Magician



(Matrix of the MIND).

Card 8 - the Balance



(Matrix of the BODY)

Card 15 - the Devil



(Matrix of the SPIRIT)

/ /

In dealing with the Matrix cards, it is helpful to 'know' what a matrix is.

Going by the etymology of the word (it's word roots, and origin), it is connected to both the womb, as well as the mother.

According to etymonline:



That which 'encloses' or gives 'origin' to something.

It is a place where something is 'generated' in other words.

/ /

In the context of the three things that we are talking about - the Matrix of the MIND, the matrix of the BODY, and the matrix of the SPIRIT, we are considering the means by which the mind/mentation is generated, the means by which the body/physical is generated, and the means by which the spirit/intelligence is generated.

In trying to delve more deeply into each of these three aspects, actually means DECONSTRUCTING what the essence of each of these faculties are.

And to get to the deepest level of Clarity, means penetrating the very HEART of what the mind is, what the body is, and what the spirit is.

Given the many assumptions, preconceptions, and assumed biases we all bring culturally to the table, this is no easy feat to get to the Core of.

And so hence the many rounds of iteration that have taken place, in trying to get deeper and deeper into what the Matrix here represents.

- - -

In terms of my Understandings, this is what I have currently arrived at.

Matrix of the MIND: the essence of the mind is a meeting place.  It is like a squared off field, where all may cross the boundary line, and interact inside the square.  Crossing into the square generates the phenomena of thoughts.  Thoughts can be infinite in number, and cover all possible things.  

Matrix of the BODY: The human body is comprised of some 37 TRILLION cells.  Stop for a moment, and contemplate that number.  That is a metric that we don't normally even utilise.   Even though as a human being - we can be considered as a 'single body' - which we designate as our OWN in this lifetime, in terms of the population count of our cells, we are a vast complex and dynasty of constantly born, and constantly dying individual cells.

how and what is going on here, in terms of the Matrix?

The body is HIGHLY ADAPTIVE and RESPONSIVE to environmental circumstances.  We register the outside temperature, and then start sweating, or shivering.  Our nutrient levels are assessed, and then hunger may then ensue.

But more than that - the body is highly responsive to INTERNAL CONDITIONS of consciousness.  Notice that I did not use the terms mind or thinking. That is the domain of the Matrix of the MIND.

The internal conditions of CONSCIOUSNESS are a different factor to just thinking.  Although the body does respond to Mind, just like it does to Environment.

But the predominant means of Configuration of the Body, is how it REFLECTS the state of our consciousness.

It is like the 37 TRILLION cells of our body are like 37 TRILLION PIXELS that form of 3 dimensional picture of the state of our consciousness.

We all know that the most common computer screen is 1920x1080 pixels.  That gives you 2 million pixels.  And for most people, a screen of this resolution, gives a sharp image.  And it can portray any kind of image.

If we consider the human body as a 37 TRILLION CELL/PIXEL expression of our Consciousness, then we are talking about a vast array of personal feedback that can be felt, tuned into, made aware of.

In the same way we can look at a computer screen, and read off information: the Matrix of the Body gives us a means of READING our consciousness, if we can interpret and comprehend what those 37 TRILLION CELLS are painting for us.

The body isn't just this dumb physical lump of flesh: it is the most elaborate and sensitive means by which we can come to KNOW OURSELVES.

This is the gift of the Matrix of the BODY.

/ /

Matrix of the Spirit: the function of the spirit is the generation of new worlds.  Each time the Matrix of the Spirit is invoked, it is like a planet is born, which becomes part of our personal narrative and soul Journey.  The spirit continues to POPULATE our awareness with these planets of experience.  

In a way - we 'get' what we 'create'.  Maybe not in a lived, physical sense (that is the domain of the Matrix of the BODY), but in terms of generating continuity, perpetuation, karmic history and polarity - every time this matrix is tapped, we are creating planets that will continue to follow us around until the end of time.  This is ALSO the legacy of all that we have done before (in past lives).  We don't start with a blank slate, in other words, each time we are born.  OUR PLANETS are still present, until acknowledged, balanced, accepted, and released.

The problem is, most people are constantly creating more and more PLANETS via the spirit function, when they haven't taken care of ALL THE JUNK that they've already accumulated and empowered.  This is a highly fraught situation, where somone can just keep adding to their misery and pile of 'stuff'.

The Matrix of the SPIRIT is a most exihilarating faculty that a human being has access to.  But it can also be hard taskmaster, as you bear the fruit of all that you have invoked, with great power.

[flofrog]

It's pretty dazzling, Plenum. It makes you so humble and so scared to create more.

Would you say that anyway the Matrix of the Body is completely dependent though on the Matrix of the Spirit... It's just that I think so and I might so wrong.. ? I see the Matrix of the Body depending from it more directly than even from the Matrix of Mind. I could be so wrong.

Another thing, did you, or anyone here, ever have the possibility to see that very strange but very extraordinary travelling exhibition named Bodies by German anatomist Gunther Von Hagen. I remember seeing one exhibit, and inside one of a tall encased window, the whole blood circulation system of a human being had been plasticized and it looked like a red tree inside what would be a human body. It was so incredibly beautiful and fragile at the same time that you were struck with the idea how can we even think of hurting or mistreating a human body in any way, because this was just one of the exquisite facets of what is a physical human body. It was amazing to see.

Ethical concerns were raised about this exhibit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodies:_The_Exhibition

[EvolvingPhoenix]

I went to that exhibit when it was here in Tampa. It was pretty cool and interesting!

[Plenum]

Hey flofrog!

There are definitely interconnections for sure.

You can see the mind/body/spirit complex as the three tines of a fork. It depends where you put the focus on - but at the end of the day - it's the 'one fork'.

In terms of the specific question - the matrix of the body does have it's own independence. A lot of this has to do with the fact that the physical vehicle appropriate for any specific density (say - a second density vehicle, or a third density vehicle, or a fourth density vehicle) is appropriately configured for the LEARNING of that density itself.

And so the matrix is going to be experienced THROUGH that physical vehicle.

The archetype itself - of course - is unchanged - as it only refers to universal principles that a particular Logos invested in.

[Nau7ik]

Hello Plenum, It’s synchronistic that you made this thread! I had just started a meditation on the Matrices of Mind, Body, and Spirit. I-VIII-XV. On Saturday and have continued it for the past few days since. What I’m doing is laying the three cards out in my altar and contemplating them. It’s a slow process but I’m getting there.

I have an idea of the Magician and the Devil, but Justice is harder to penetrate for me. The significant parts of this concept complex that I see are: the blind-folded eyes; Justice is sitting; an Angel is behind Justice; a Lotus flower (?) above the head; the scales and sword in both hands; and the lion with a sphinx (?) on it’s back. Justice is also represented as feminine (and the Potentiator as masculine).

She is sitting because the Matrix of Body represents the balanced functioning of body as it naturally is. Just as the Matrix of Mind represents the unfed conncious mind, this would be the unfed body complex. She is blindfolded because the Matrix can’t regulate the body by itself. The Matrix of Body is therefore protected by its lower nature, represented by the lion, who has divine guidance represented by the sphinx it’s back, and the angel standing behind her.

That’s all I have for now.. I’m going to continue contemplating these cards. For me personally allowing a period of no-thought is also very helpful! This is to allow for the Intuitive mind to work.

[Plenum]

I have an idea of the Magician and the Devil, but Justice is harder to penetrate for me. The significant parts of this concept complex that I see are: the blind-folded eyes; Justice is sitting; an Angel is behind Justice; a Lotus flower (?) above the head; the scales and sword in both hands; and the lion with a sphinx (?) on it’s back. Justice is also represented as feminine (and the Potentiator as masculine).

all I can say is that I've cycled through each of these components/elements ... over time ... in my quest for Clarity!  It is one difficult archetype!

it may be for a couple of issues:

1) the more 'mental' orientation in the western mindset.  Which has led to an increasing disconnect from the physical vehicle.

2) being in a male physical body - which makes this card (a female-oriented archetype) more naturally distant, and less activated for us (on a conscious level).

so it's definitely been so hard to get to the heart of.

/ /

I can offer one piece of advice, regards the symbolism/analysis.

It's worked for me; but may or may not be appropriate for you (and others).

But when I'm struggling, I just look at the card itself, and my mind's eye will be drawn to ONE area of confusion.  It is like all the symbols you listed above ... but the mind will focus in on ONE, as being the next step in Clarification.

And once you have a focus, you can apply all your efforts in comtemplation, dreamwork, and receptivity to that area of the archetype.

It WON'T reveal everything; but much like a jigsaw puzzle of 15 pieces - each piece you put in place will contribute to the greater Resolution.

So applied effort (in that fashion) can eventually bear fruit.

/ /

Ra: I am Ra. This is very close to our meaning. It was our intention to suggest that one or more of you go through the plan of study which we have suggested. The queries having to do with the archetypes as found in the tarot after this point may take the form of observing what seem to be the characteristics of each archetype; relationships between mind, body, and spiritual archetypes of the same ranking such as Matrix; or archetypes as seen in relationship to polarity, especially when observed in the pairings.

Any observations made by a student which has fulfilled these considerations will receive our comments in return. Our great avoidance of interpreting, for the first time, for the learn/teacher various elements of a picture upon a piece of pasteboard is involved both with the Law of Confusion and with the difficulties of the distortions of the pictures upon the pasteboard. Therefore, we may suggest a conscientious review of that which we have already given concerning this subject as opposed to the major reliance being either upon any rendition of the archetype pictures or any system which has been arranged as a means of studying these pictures.

[redchartreuse]

It is like the 37 TRILLION cells of our body are like 37 TRILLION PIXELS that form of 3 dimensional picture of the state of our consciousness.

Great insights!  Just something to add to this observation...

There are at least 37 trillion other lifeforms that comprise the body complex.  And from a DNA standpoint, our human DNA only represents about 10% of the total amount of genetic information stored in the body complex.

[Plenum]

that's right.  Gut flora health is a big FACTOR in one's overall health.

And a big determinant in that - is in the care (and quality) of what we choose to eat in the first place.

it all comes back around ... we live the consequences of our choices.

[anagogy]

I have an idea of the Magician and the Devil, but Justice is harder to penetrate for me. The significant parts of this concept complex that I see are: the blind-folded eyes; Justice is sitting; an Angel is behind Justice; a Lotus flower (?) above the head; the scales and sword in both hands; and the lion with a sphinx (?) on it’s back. Justice is also represented as feminine (and the Potentiator as masculine).

She is sitting because the Matrix of Body represents the balanced functioning of body as it naturally is. Just as the Matrix of Mind represents the unfed conncious mind, this would be the unfed body complex. She is blindfolded because the Matrix can’t regulate the body by itself. The Matrix of Body is therefore protected by its lower nature, represented by the lion, who has divine guidance represented by the sphinx it’s back, and the angel standing behind her.

That’s all I have for now..  I’m going to continue contemplating these cards. For me personally allowing a period of no-thought is also very helpful! This is to allow for the Intuitive mind to work.

"Each portion of the body complex is in a state of growth at all times. The reversal of this is seen as disease and has the benign function of ending an incarnation at an appropriate space/time nexus."

The growth, when this matrix is functioning properly, having been regulated by the potentiator (wisdom), is in a constant state of "healing" we might say. When the potentiator of the body (wisdom) has not been adequately tapped into, the growth is no longer balanced and even functioning -- that is to say, the growth may go out of control. For example what is cancer? Uncontrolled and imbalanced growth in most cases. The cells go rogue. What parts of the body do we discard and which parts do we keep? What cells are sloughed off, and which ones are allowed to grow? Are the invaders (enemy cells, bacterium, and viruses) being slain and the kingdom of bodily cooperative cells being protected? Is justice (balance) being realized, or has the bodily kingdom become corrupt due to a lack of properly invoking the potentiator?

The person on the square seat (which represents the physical world) holds a sword in the right hand and the scale in the left hand, but justice is blindfolded, and requires the counsel of the potentiator to coordinate the balance through the application of wisdom. The angel is not blindfolded and protects, to some extent, within the constraints of free will, the naive or innocent bodily matrix before incarnational opportunities have occurred allowing interaction with the potentiator to be explored in depth enough for true responsibility to emerge. For example, when you're young you can eat almost anything and get away with it, relatively unscathed. As you get older, and you know more about health, you have to be more careful about what you place in your body. The angel, hidden protector, gave you some leeway in your youthful ignorance. But now, that one is older and (hopefully) wiser, there is more responsibility about how to regulate the "even functioning" of the bodily matrix. As the body ages (catalyst of body known as the wheel of fate or unceasing march of time), the even functioning gets more difficult to maintain (the natural course of a limited space/time incarnation), thus more wisdom is required to maintain the balance, or justice, in the body.

I hope this helps aid your understanding brother.

[loostudent]

Justice is commonly known as Lady Justice (Iusticia)



https://thewestologist.wordpress.com/tag/symbol/

Lady Justice (Latin: Iustitia) is an allegorical personification of the moral force in judicial systems. Her attributes are a blindfold, a balance, and a sword /.../

The scales represent the weighing of evidence, and the scales lack a foundation in order to signify that evidence should stand on its own /.../

The blindfold represents impartiality, the ideal that justice should be applied without regard to wealth, power, or other status /.../

The sword represented authority in ancient times, and conveys the idea that justice can be swift and final /.../

(Wiki)

Justice applies to society. It's the regulatory system. Keeping things in order and stability. If we apply this to body - I think it's homeostasis:

Homeostasis, any self-regulating process by which biological systems tend to maintain stability while adjusting to conditions that are optimal for survival. If homeostasis is successful, life continues; if unsuccessful, disaster or death ensues. The stability attained is actually a dynamic equilibrium, in which continuous change occurs yet relatively uniform conditions prevail.

https://www.britannica.com/science/homeostasis

https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...meostasis/

https://opencurriculum.org/5385/homeosta...uman-body/

[Nau7ik]

Very insightful anagogy and loostudent!

The stability attained is actually a dynamic equilibrium, in which continuous change occurs yet relatively uniform conditions prevail.

This! This resonates to me what Ra said regarding the Matrix of Body: unrestricted motion.

[Taralie Peterdaughter]

It's pretty dazzling, Plenum.  It makes you so humble and so scared to create more.

Would you say that anyway the Matrix of the Body is completely dependent though on the Matrix of the Spirit... It's just that I think so and I might so wrong.. ? I see the Matrix of the Body depending from it more directly than even from the  Matrix of Mind.  I could be so wrong.

Another thing, did you, or anyone here,  ever have the possibility to see that very strange but very extraordinary travelling exhibition named Bodies by German anatomist Gunther Von Hagen.  I remember seeing one exhibit,  and inside one of a tall encased window, the whole blood circulation system of a human being had been plasticized and it looked like a red tree inside what would be a human body. It was so incredibly beautiful and fragile at the same time that you were struck with the idea how can we even think of hurting or mistreating a human body in any way,  because this was just one of the exquisite facets of what is a physical human body.  It was amazing to see.

Ethical concerns were raised about this exhibit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodies:_The_Exhibition

[Taralie Peterdaughter]

I am interested in how mind, body, spirit relate. I like how you wrote that you think the body might be depending more directly from spirit than mind. I have had this thought as well. I see the body as more pure, like spirit. Whereas I see the mind more corrupt. However the mind is somehow at the forefront of our evolution and will power, which also seems essential to spirit. So not sure exactly what spirit is, but I do know I do not put the mind in higher regard over body, as a lot of people/ great thinkers do. I think it is through the purity/experience of the body that we access the idea of god's will. But it's the mind where free will is harnessed but then ultimately like sublimated?? Not sure.or let me try this another way. The mind gives us access to the choice and the experience of the body's lead of helping find that choice??? I don't know!! Any thoughts???

[anagogy]

I am interested in how mind, body, spirit relate.  I like how you wrote that you think the body might be depending more directly from spirit than mind.  I have had this thought as well.  I see the body as more pure, like spirit.  Whereas I see the mind more corrupt.  However the mind is somehow at the forefront of our evolution and will power, which also seems essential to spirit.  So not sure exactly what spirit is, but I do know I do not put the mind in higher regard over body, as a lot of people/ great thinkers do.  I think it is through the purity/experience of the body that we access the idea of god's will.  But it's the mind where free will is harnessed but then ultimately like sublimated?? Not sure.or let me try this another way.  The mind gives us access to the choice and the experience of the body's lead of helping find that choice???  I don't know!! Any thoughts???

In my opinion, spirit and body are essentially opposites. The nature of spirit is to unify, just as the nature of the body is to segregate. The mind is the mediator between those two. The spirit sees all as one, and the body sees all as separate. All three are forms of consciousness. The mind reflects the in pourings of spirit and the up pourings from the body complex. Just a like a mirror inverts the image being reflected upon it, so does the mirror of the mind invert the image of spirit into it's perfect opposite (the physical world reflects the spiritual world in opposite). So the physical world acts as a way for us to see what still needs to be balanced in our spirit complex. The mind isn't just a mirror, it is a mirror than can bend and distort as well. It can turn into a sort of "fun-house" mirror if it becomes extremely distorted, resulting in a correspondingly distorted physical world manifestation (because spirit cannot reflect properly). This is the case for most humans. This is why the mind must be initiated first, so the body can be a true reflection of the spirit, and then with both body and mind balanced, the spirit can be gradually worked upon (or rather, fully manifested) until a perfect reflection is obtained that is undistorted. This is when one sees the great way of the spirit, with all elements working in harmony. You might call that a vision of god, so to speak. Contact with intelligent infinity.

[Taralie Peterdaughter]

I am interested in how mind, body, spirit relate.  I like how you wrote that you think the body might be depending more directly from spirit than mind.  I have had this thought as well.  I see the body as more pure, like spirit.  Whereas I see the mind more corrupt.  However the mind is somehow at the forefront of our evolution and will power, which also seems essential to spirit.  So not sure exactly what spirit is, but I do know I do not put the mind in higher regard over body, as a lot of people/ great thinkers do.  I think it is through the purity/experience of the body that we access the idea of god's will.  But it's the mind where free will is harnessed but then ultimately like sublimated?? Not sure.or let me try this another way.  The mind gives us access to the choice and the experience of the body's lead of helping find that choice???  I don't know!! Any thoughts???

In my opinion, spirit and body are essentially opposites. The nature of spirit is to unify, just as the nature of the body is to segregate. The mind is the mediator between those two. The spirit sees all as one, and the body sees all as separate. All three are forms of consciousness. The mind reflects the in pourings of spirit and the up pourings from the body complex. Just a like a mirror inverts the image being reflected upon it, so does the mirror of the mind invert the image of spirit into it's perfect opposite (the physical world reflects the spiritual world in opposite). So the physical world acts as a way for us to see what still needs to be balanced in our spirit complex. The mind isn't just a mirror, it is a mirror than can bend and distort as well. It can turn into a sort of "fun-house" mirror if it becomes extremely distorted, resulting in a correspondingly distorted physical world manifestation (because spirit cannot reflect properly). This is the case for most humans. This is why the mind must be initiated first, so the body can be a true reflection of the spirit, and then with both body and mind balanced, the spirit can be gradually worked upon (or rather, fully manifested) until a perfect reflection is obtained that is undistorted. This is when one sees the great way of the spirit, with all elements working in harmony. You might call that a vision of god, so to speak. Contact with intelligent infinity.

[Taralie Peterdaughter]

Well I guess I'm not convinced the body is the one separating. To me the body picks up a lot of unifying information and is intrinsically connected to the quantum matrix which is a unified field. Is it not shown that in quantum physics? To me it's the mind that separates, the immature undeveloped mind. When one meditates one focuses the energy of consciousness into the field of sensation, be it vippassana or anapana style, and the understanding of unification is channelled through the body with a calm, present, focused mind. I see the body as a radio antennae of spirit.

[AnthroHeart]

Is it possible to be consciously and directly aware of the spirit? Or is it always filtered through the mind?

[anagogy]

Well I guess I'm not convinced the body is the one separating.  To me the body picks up a lot of unifying information and is intrinsically connected to the quantum matrix which is a unified field.  Is it not shown that in quantum physics?

I guess I'm not quite sure what a "quantum matrix" is? Perhaps you could describe it? And can you give me an example of this unifying information?

To me it's the mind that separates, the immature undeveloped mind.  When one meditates one focuses the energy of consciousness into the field of sensation, be it vippassana or anapana style, and the understanding of unification is channelled through the body with a calm, present, focused mind.  I see the body as a radio antennae of spirit.

I would say the immature mind defaults to the information channeled through the body complex, which naturally separates information in a linear and structured way. For example, your eyes can only see what is present in front of your body complex, and only if there is light. Your ears can only hear sounds that are within tangible hearing distance. Both senses are dependent on the forms around it. Form itself, is an example of separation. Form could not exist without separation. I would say the fence of the skin between bodies is one the greatest and most tangible examples of bodily separation. I think that an "initiated" body can potentially become an "antennae" for the intuition present in the spirit complex, but I would say for the most part, the information of the body is the information of the physical senses which are limited by the linear structure by which they deliver information to the brain. The body has a place in space and time. The spirit has a deeper connection that transcends space and time.

[Taralie Peterdaughter]

Well the classic double slit experiment shows the observer affects the results of subatomic particles. Easy to find on you tube. This is one example of many in quantum physics that show that perception is not proof of separation. After all everything is in your head. Everything outside and inside. There is literally no way to absolutely prove the outside world even exists in its own right. Buddhist meditative practices have revealed there is no self or other that all is one. Ithat these concepts fall away with an intensely focused meditative practice or through sudden realization. Ive never experienced it but I believe them that write and spoke of it. Meditation is a very physical practice. Only mental in the way that the mind is focused and awareness is concentrated. Like a magnifying lens channelling the sun shine to create fire. The lens is awareness, the sun is spirit and the fire is the purification of the physical into a purer being. Ha! I just made that up but sounds fun. But aside from that process. I just feel the body picks up on information from spirit that the mind is too stupid to understand. So I suppose I see them as prongs in a fork like someone wrote earlier, rather than one higher than the other. Hierarchy in general is probably illusion. Everything is synergistic.

[Jade]

The way we read the emotions of others is by experiencing them in our own body. If someone comes upon us scowling, our facial muscles subtly respond and mirror that scowl, which sends that information to the brain to process the emotions of the other that is being interacted with. Of course, this goes the same for a smile - our bodies mirror the expressions of others before our brains actually process and understand the input. Our 2nd density species spent a lot of time developing social hierarchies and working in groups, so we have evolved to harmonize social structures for the benefit of the group at large through instinctual bodily communication - body language, pheromones, vocal expression. It's my understanding that separation occurs much more in the mind, and also maybe the spirit in some ways. In the mind cycle, 5/7 of the cards have the entities facing to the left, captured by the left hand catalyst. In the spirit cycle, we are accepting more and more light into our beings, having been able to reject the darkness in the mind.

The body cycle is about linking the mind cycle and the spirit cycle in third density. There is the personal body vehicle, the experiences of the sense, and then there is also the collective body of the planetary entity that we live upon, much like the trillions of cells and microbes that live upon our body. There is separation in the body, it is the separation of instinctual 2nd density "will", and the will of the 3rd density aware entity who is striving for more light. Understanding the instinctual desires of the body - the Wheel of catalyst, the cycles and rituals and habits that our bodies and wills conform to, and unifying it with the desires of the mind complex (service to self vs. service to others) and also hopefully spirit complex (seeing the creator in all). Fear starts in the first and second chakras, and we do many unconscious things based upon fear of survival, or fear of others. Yet the mind and the spirit cannot properly function without the cooperation of the body. So, in that way, the body can be seen as a unifier or a separator. If the body becomes too distorted, then it becomes almost impossible to work with the mind or the spirit. However, it is the catalyst of the body that often gets us to begin that work with the mind and the spirit.

The Matrix of the Mind can only be used if the mind is single-pointed. This requires an elimination of unconscious and instinctual fears that undermine the conscious will of the entity. Maybe you want a new job, but if you are afraid of losing your current job, well, you are sending two requests - "I don't want to lose my current job" and "I want a new job" are incompatible. If you can properly soothe your second density vehicle into the understanding that all is well, it will be fed, it will be housed and warm, even without the current job, you can more properly unlock the bird from the cage to let the spirit fly into manifestation.

[anagogy]

Well the classic double slit experiment shows the observer affects the results of subatomic particles.  Easy to find on you tube.  This is one example of many in quantum physics that show that perception is not proof of separation.  After all everything is in your head.

I'm very familiar with the double slit experiment. The only problem is that if you were to ask a mainstream physicist like Sean Carroll, Neil Degrasse Tyson, or Michio Kaku for example whether consciousness is what causes the wave-particle-collapse in these experiments they would answer to the negative. A mainstream physicist is going to say that it is "measurement" that causes particle collapse, not observation. Sort of like when you drop your keys behind your car seat and try to reach for them, the act of reaching for them moves them into a new position (because it interferes with it). I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this explanation, just that this is the defacto materialist explanation, so generally I think resorting to these types of mainstream physicalist ideas to explain spiritual things really just ends up hurting the actual metaphysical narrative or explanation (but that is just my opinion).

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that is necessarily correct, or incorrect, just pointing out that "quantum" is the word that new age "woo" adopts into their vocabulary when they are trying to make their somewhat "wobbly" explanations sound more "believable" and "scientific". I think it is ultimately self defeating to use it as a bridge to explanation of how the physical and the metaphysical relate. Every new age author basically just tacks on the word "quantum" to whatever they write, and BAM, instant pseudo credibility (for a large group of people anyway). And then the materialists tear it apart on mainstream media programs, thereby supporting their agenda to "physicalize" everything.

Everything outside and inside.  There is literally no way to absolutely prove the outside world even exists in its own right.  Buddhist meditative practices have revealed there is no self or other that all is one.  Ithat these concepts fall away with an intensely focused meditative practice or through sudden realization.  Ive never experienced it but I believe them that write and spoke of it.   Meditation is a very physical practice.  Only mental in the way that the mind is focused and awareness is concentrated.  Like a magnifying lens channelling the sun shine to create fire.  The lens is awareness, the sun is spirit and the fire is the purification of the physical into a purer being.  Ha! I just made that up but sounds fun.    But aside from that process.  I just feel the body picks up on information from spirit that the mind is too stupid to understand.  

I don't disagree that sometimes the body picks up on intuitive information (like hair standing up on ends) but I don't think it is picking up on bodily information, which is limited to space and time, but rather translating information from the spirit, which is where all becomes one.

I think it is the mind that chooses. As to whether the choice leans to the spiritual or the physical is a completely separate question (how catalyst is used). I think the body helps reflect the development of the spirit (that is when it starts to act like an "antennae").

So I suppose I see them as prongs in a fork like someone wrote earlier, rather than one higher than the other.  Hierarchy in general is probably illusion.  Everything is synergistic.

I agree that they are not hierarchical. As Ra said, the mind, body, and spirit "are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other. Thus we refer to the mind/body/spirit complex rather than attempting to deal with them separately, for the work, shall we say, that you do during your experiences is done through the interaction of these three components, not through any one."

[AnthroHeart]

Anagogy, do you think the movie What the Bleep do we Know is accurate? It goes into quantum extrapolations into the classical world.

[anagogy]

Anagogy, do you think the movie What the Bleep do we Know is accurate? It goes into quantum extrapolations into the classical world.

No, real physicists cringe when they watch it. That doesn't mean it is all wrong though.

That is is my point really, things like that repel as many people from spirituality as they attract. But hey, an analogy is an analogy, even if it isn't perfect, I guess. Sort of like fairy tales, sometimes they contain half truths.

[AnthroHeart]

Yeah, the concept of "thoughts create your reality" has made me cringe. Just because every thought has a frequency doesn't mean it affects the macro world.
In the energy work I do, I honestly don't know how much of an effect it has. Though I have healed a dog with Reiki before.
And I've seen QHHT heal a guy's back.
I studied Physics in undergraduate, though I don't remember much of it.

I justified weak thoughts affecting reality by thinking it was like a relay, which takes only a small amount of current to close a switch and allow a large current to pass. But I don't know if that is even accurate.

[flofrog]

This requires an elimination of unconscious and instinctual fears that undermine the conscious will of the entity. Maybe you want a new job, but if you are afraid of losing your current job, well, you are sending two requests - "I don't want to lose my current job" and "I want a new job" are incompatible. If you can properly soothe your second density vehicle into the understanding that all is well, it will be fed, it will be housed and warm, even without the current job, you can more properly unlock the bird from the cage to let the spirit fly into manifestation.

Thank you Jade, this suddenly clears out many things for me.
I started thirty two years ago on a whim to write letters to Creator or the universe, if you wish. So I establish a little ritual and somehow whatever I write, seems to happen, it take 2 weeks, weirdly... lol But the thing is I really make it very detailed, sort of imagining things like a child, and so many details that it defies, shall we say, the law of statistics or probabilities.

It works for everybody else, or if I write it for my family, as a group. Not for myself, I have to say I only tried twice, but I think only in my case it doesn't seem to agree with me, I bet I had some sort of instinctual doubt that you are speaking about. Mmm, many thanks, that clears things for sure !! lol

[Nau7ik]

I consider the mind to come first, then body, and then spirit. All exists in potentiation though even before the universe is created. (The possibilty / idea of manifestation exists as the Limitless Light-Ein Soph Aur.) To express the Mind of God, manifestation is necessary. This is reflected in us.

97.10 ▶ Questioner: Thank you. Card Number Five, the Significator of the Mind, indicates, firstly, as I see it, simply a male within a rectangularly structured form. This suggests to me that the Significator of the Mind in third density is well-bounded within the illusion, as is also suggested by the fact that the base of the male is a rectangular form showing no ability for movement. Would Ra comment on that?

Ra: I am Ra. O student, you have grasped the barest essence of the nature of the Significator’s complete envelopment within the rectangle. Consider for the self, O student, whether your thoughts can walk. The abilities of the most finely honed mentality shall not be known without the use of the physical vehicle which you call the body. Through the mouth the mind may speak. Through the limbs the mind may effect action.

[anagogy]

I consider the mind to come first, then body, and then spirit. All exists in potentiation though even before the universe is created. (The possibilty / idea of manifestation exists as the Limitless Light-Ein Soph Aur.) To express the Mind of God, manifestation is necessary. This is reflected in us.

I suppose it depends on what context you are talking about it in.

In terms of the development of the archetypes of the adept, they proceed in the order you described (though I don't believe they were necessarily constructed by the Logos in that order, because some archetypes were added later, though, since this occurred outside of time that line of inquiry, due to the complex components of causality, becomes even more of a nebulous undertaking to discover of what import that is or is not).

In terms of the intelligent infinity, I would say they are unified, and indistinguishable (they become integrated at the gateway). Thus, in that sense, I wouldn't call them hierarchical, since they existed always in latent potential. I think they all serve equally important functions. But I think the mind is the chooser. It is also equivalent, in my opinion, to the Logos manifestation. The focusing of intelligent infinity, Love, the creator.

In terms of encompassing one another, I would say the spirit is broader than the mind, and the mind is broader than the body. Again, that doesn't make one necessarily better or anything, just that there is a fundamental distinction of general to specific. They serve different functions. Imagine a circle within a circle within a circle.

"The infinity of the spirit is an even greater realization than the infinity of consciousness, for consciousness which has been disciplined by will and faith is that consciousness which may contact intelligent infinity directly."

So again, it really just depends on context. For example, there are some archetypes of spirit which are opposite of body, and yet some others are not. There are some archetypes of mind that are opposite the body, and yet some others are not. The interrelationships are many and complex (just like the subtle bodies and their relationship to our day to day experience). So there are a lot of things that are true in one context, and yet not true in another context.

So it requires quite a bit of discernment.

[flofrog]

In terms of encompassing one another, I would say the spirit is broader than the mind, and the mind is broader than the body. Again, that doesn't make one necessarily better or anything, just that there is a fundamental distinction of general to specific. They serve different functions. Imagine a circle within a circle within a circle.

"The infinity of the spirit is an even greater realization than the infinity of consciousness, for consciousness which has been disciplined by will and faith is that consciousness which may contact intelligent infinity directly."

So again, it really just depends on context.

So it requires quite a bit of discernment.

For some reason it's for me really difficult to envision the mind as not tributary to the spirit. I feel it's my own limited view and really difficult to let it go. But I would agree that in third density the mind being the chooser, reigns in major way. Absolutely it depends on context.

[Foha]

I am interested in how mind, body, spirit relate.  I like how you wrote that you think the body might be depending more directly from spirit than mind.  I have had this thought as well.  I see the body as more pure, like spirit.  Whereas I see the mind more corrupt.  However the mind is somehow at the forefront of our evolution and will power, which also seems essential to spirit.  So not sure exactly what spirit is, but I do know I do not put the mind in higher regard over body, as a lot of people/ great thinkers do.  I think it is through the purity/experience of the body that we access the idea of god's will.  But it's the mind where free will is harnessed but then ultimately like sublimated?? Not sure.or let me try this another way.  The mind gives us access to the choice and the experience of the body's lead of helping find that choice???  I don't know!! Any thoughts???

In my opinion, spirit and body are essentially opposites. The nature of spirit is to unify, just as the nature of the body is to segregate. The mind is the mediator between those two. The spirit sees all as one, and the body sees all as separate. All three are forms of consciousness. The mind reflects the in pourings of spirit and the up pourings from the body complex. Just a like a mirror inverts the image being reflected upon it, so does the mirror of the mind invert the image of spirit into it's perfect opposite (the physical world reflects the spiritual world in opposite). So the physical world acts as a way for us to see what still needs to be balanced in our spirit complex. The mind isn't just a mirror, it is a mirror than can bend and distort as well. It can turn into a sort of "fun-house" mirror if it becomes extremely distorted, resulting in a correspondingly distorted physical world manifestation (because spirit cannot reflect properly). This is the case for most humans. This is why the mind must be initiated first, so the body can be a true reflection of the spirit, and then with both body and mind balanced, the spirit can be gradually worked upon (or rather, fully manifested) until a perfect reflection is obtained that is undistorted. This is when one sees the great way of the spirit, with all elements working in harmony. You might call that a vision of god, so to speak. Contact with intelligent infinity.

Wow, thank you anagogy!

This really helped me on a fundamental level. I can't thank everyone in this thread enough.
I really am glad I found the Ra Material as well as this forum. I am blessed to be able to listen to some of what is talked about here.

[Foha]

Anagogy, do you think the movie What the Bleep do we Know is accurate? It goes into quantum extrapolations into the classical world.

No, real physicists cringe when they watch it. That doesn't mean it is all wrong though.

That is is my point really, things like that repel as many people from spirituality as they attract. But hey, an analogy is an analogy, even if it isn't perfect, I guess. Sort of like fairy tales, sometimes they contain half truths.

Is an anagogy an anagogy?