Is there more than the One?

[Stranger]

This is a thought that has bothered me for some time now, and reading Zingdad's The Ascension Papers 3rd edition Book 1 has finally crystallized the thought sufficiently for me to express it.

I don't expect an answer because I don't think there is an answer, but the question is worth considering.

Part 1 - The Question.
The One who started out as an undifferentiated whole still exists within parameters.  At the very least, the One exists; is capable of creation; capable of experiencing itself; has at least one motive - eg, the motive to explore itself and its infinite capacities.  It has capacities.  It exists in bliss rather than just "exists."

In other words: The One has a *structure* inherent in it, even at the highest level, apart from all of its creation/illusion.  It is not just an undifferentiated amorphous blob of Being - not even at its very core. 

And at this point I am way past the materialistic/mechanistic belief that things just happened to be the way they are.  That isn't true at any level of what is, and certainly even less so the higher (closer to the One, further from illusion) one goes.  So no, The One did not "just happen" to have these attributes.

And if you say to me that The One does not have attributes apart from those attributes that it chose to create and explore, then that very statement contradicts itself. Choosing to create and explore attributes within itself requires the attributes of, again, choosing, creating, wishing to explore, and ability to experience its creations. 

So then why does The One have these attributes in the first place?


Part 2 - The Hypothesis.
In The Ascension Papers Book 1 Chapter 10 - What Is Evil? - the author/entity channeled presents a very compelling account of how The One's wish to experience many-ness was taken to its logical extreme (we hope) of asking, what would it be like to be trapped in many-ness, sinking ever deeper into it?  And as a result of this inquiry, other thoughts arose which, being the One's thoughts, became manifestations rather than abstract speculations.  The Veil, ego and hatred were among the secondary thoughts that came into existence to allow this possibility to be explored, so that separation would not only be experienced but deepened further from within by the choices and creations of the veiled parts of the One. 

The veiled beings (us) have the full capacity to experience ourselves as random accidents in an impersonal Universe, with nothing beyond that.

According to The Father, The One is not aware of anything apart from itself.  Yet it has attributes inherent in it (including being itself).

What if The One is also, itself, a (hyper-)veiled part of a larger Reality?

[AnthroHeart]

I've often wondered myself, is the Creator (the One) aware of the next Octave? Because I understood that each Octave has it's own One,
because each Octave is infinite.

[Infinite Unity]

This is a thought that has bothered me for some time now, and reading Zingdad's The Ascension Papers 3rd edition Book 1 has finally crystallized the thought sufficiently for me to express it.

I don't expect an answer because I don't think there is an answer, but the question is worth considering.

Part 1 - The Question.
The One who started out as an undifferentiated whole still exists within parameters.  At the very least, the One exists; is capable of creation; capable of experiencing itself; has at least one motive - eg, the motive to explore itself and its infinite capacities.  It has capacities.  It exists in bliss rather than just "exists."

In other words: The One has a *structure* inherent in it, even at the highest level, apart from all of its creation/illusion.  It is not just an undifferentiated amorphous blob of Being - not even at its very core. 

And at this point I am way past the materialistic/mechanistic belief that things just happened to be the way they are.  That isn't true at any level of what is, and certainly even less so the higher (closer to the One, further from illusion) one goes.  So no, The One did not "just happen" to have these attributes.

And if you say to me that The One does not have attributes apart from those attributes that it chose to create and explore, then that very statement contradicts itself. Choosing to create and explore attributes within itself requires the attributes of, again, choosing, creating, wishing to explore, and ability to experience its creations. 

So then why does The One have these attributes in the first place?


Part 2 - The Hypothesis.
In The Ascension Papers Book 1 Chapter 10 - What Is Evil? - the author/entity channeled presents a very compelling account of how The One's wish to experience many-ness was taken to its logical extreme (we hope) of asking, what would it be like to be trapped in many-ness, sinking ever deeper into it?  And as a result of this inquiry, other thoughts arose which, being the One's thoughts, became manifestations rather than abstract speculations.  The Veil, ego and hatred were among the secondary thoughts that came into existence to allow this possibility to be explored, so that separation would not only be experienced but deepened further from within by the choices and creations of the veiled parts of the One. 

The veiled beings (us) have the full capacity to experience ourselves as random accidents in an impersonal Universe, with nothing beyond that.

According to The Father, The One is not aware of anything apart from itself.  Yet it has attributes inherent in it (including being itself).

What if The One is also, itself, a (hyper-)veiled part of a larger Reality?

Sounds like your describing Logos. Its weird I've done that so many times myself. Trace through the layers, and think your getting close to The Creator itself, Just to come full circle.

[AnthroHeart]

Infinite Unity, I didn't think about the Logos being mistaken for Creator.
I have heard there are angels at the level of Creator.
As if "level" would have any meaning.

[Minyatur]

The attributes you speak of are not inherent to the One as united, but are a part of its infinite reflection through the second distortion. They are attributes of the One in the thought of separation, or you could say of the One as abstracted/distanced from the root of Itself. The core attributes of wanting to create and explore are the color of this Octave's Logos, it is a relative finite-infinite focal point upon the infinite-finite blob you spoke of, reflecting what It is through offering the feedback of what It perceives.

The attribute behind the second distortion is the first distortion, which is more like what links that Being is consciousness. It is the potential for awareness, intelligence. In the Source there is no change nor duality, yet infinite no-thing cycles into infinite every-thing and infinite every-thing cycles into infinite no-thing.

The movement is generated by the inherent intelligence of Source in perception of paradoxes. When all is seen without separation, then everything is made void, with no-thing distinguishable and there is no hold for awareness (abstraction of thought). If only a part of things is seen, then a paradox is understood by intelligence and it is sought to be resolved because of the distortion of feedback. In the sight of an empty, it is sought to be filled. In the sight of manifested fullness, the initial nature of the empty is realized and a return to it is longed for.

So why does limitless perception (absence of paradox) not disallow limited perception (intelligence stuck in paradox), because what you could call the sole attribute of the true One (amorphous blob of Being) is its non-dual nature. It does see within and without the limits, without there is no paradox and within there are paradoxes.

[Minyatur]

Sounds like your describing Logos.

Exactly what I was thinking and Logos is not what the One is but instead an intelligent principle that reflects It.

[AnthroHeart]

It's probably super easy to solve a paradox at the level of the One.
Even paradoxes are solved at like 6th density.

I don't think Ra has any paradoxes.

Is unity the same as a solution to all paradoxes. Does Unity mean no paradoxes?

[Infinite Unity]

Unity is the referencing of Infinity through Love. Light/Love is what memories are LITERALLY made up of. It literally allows for Intelligent Infinity to remember, and has large impact(s) on Intelligence. The Original Thought is the birthing of Love/Light(+memorie(s)/Infinite Intelligence (units/Sparks) and the associated effects or rather insights of Intelligence (Intelligent Infinity).

[Nau7ik]

It's probably super easy to solve a paradox at the level of the One.
Even paradoxes are solved at like 6th density.

I don't think Ra has any paradoxes.

Is unity the same as a solution to all paradoxes. Does Unity mean no paradoxes?

Above the Abyss is unity, and below the Abyss is contradiction and separation. (Seeming contradiction and separation

The Great Mystery is ever before them, as Ra has said. I don’t think we truly KNOW our Infinite and Eternal nature (which is in truth the Creator) until we have left the Octave and returned to Source, Ein Soph, Eternity.

Creation is illusion. It’s a created thing. It is not true reality. What is true reality beyond space and time and illusion? What is the reality of Infinite Intelligence? I honesty do not believe that can be answered until we realize our true nature as Creator, which is return to source. The Buddha basically said the same thing when it came to answering the question of what happens to an Arahat. One cannot say that he exists or doesn’t exist. His condition is beyond our attempts to classify it. If we want to know, then we must get there ourselves. That’s a perfectly satisfactory answer for me.

The point I’m trying to make is that our rationality is not the highest function of the mind. The Intuitive factuality is the proper functioning of the Ruach-Spirit. It “receives”. This is gotten to by spiritual work and discipline. It’s a step on the path.

[loostudent]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ein_Sof

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohr

[anagogy]

This is a thought that has bothered me for some time now, and reading Zingdad's The Ascension Papers 3rd edition Book 1 has finally crystallized the thought sufficiently for me to express it.

I don't expect an answer because I don't think there is an answer, but the question is worth considering.

Part 1 - The Question.
The One who started out as an undifferentiated whole still exists within parameters.  At the very least, the One exists; is capable of creation; capable of experiencing itself; has at least one motive - eg, the motive to explore itself and its infinite capacities.  It has capacities.  It exists in bliss rather than just "exists."

I guess I disagree with the initial premise: that the One has organized parameters (which I would define for the purposes of our conversation as planned "limitations" or "structure"). You mentioned abilities like: will, and capacities, like creating, and existing in bliss, but I don't see these as "parameters" (planned structure) so much as simply the natural state, and/or powers, inherent in not collecting into pools of illusory separation. Infinity does have natural attributes simply by virtue of being infinity. Just like a still pond is different from a rippling pond. The image reflected will be different. Unity is simply the opposite of separation or distortion. You wouldn't call the lack of separation a part of planned structure would you? It is more of a natural attribute. You experience disorder, and disharmony, in separation because there is the illusion of moving parts which builds up the illusion of friction as the very thoughtform of separation is the essence of entropy -- the tendency towards disorder rather than order.

In other words: The One has a *structure* inherent in it, even at the highest level, apart from all of its creation/illusion.  It is not just an undifferentiated amorphous blob of Being - not even at its very core. 

And at this point I am way past the materialistic/mechanistic belief that things just happened to be the way they are.  That isn't true at any level of what is, and certainly even less so the higher (closer to the One, further from illusion) one goes.  So no, The One did not "just happen" to have these attributes.

And if you say to me that The One does not have attributes apart from those attributes that it chose to create and explore, then that very statement contradicts itself. Choosing to create and explore attributes within itself requires the attributes of, again, choosing, creating, wishing to explore, and ability to experience its creations.

  
I agree that oneness contains attributes (though most eastern spiritual traditions forbid speaking of them for this very reason of confusion). It is infinity though, which is all potential attributes (that doesn't mean all attributes are manifesting at once because that would be a logical contradiction). Light and dark cannot exist in the same place in equal concentrations for example. There is the unnatural (chosen caused attributes) and the super natural (latent uncaused attributes). There is an awareness in unity of that threshold at which Beingness starts to become distorted though. The threshold at which the Light of Truth (Beingness) begins to become "bent", causing a rainbow of distorted Light to occur. And it simply willed an exploration of this threshold. So to say infinity has attributes which surpass a willed limited state, like separation, doesn't contradict the idea that there are natural (again, I wouldn't call it structure) but orders to unity, or intelligent infinity. I would say unity, or intelligent infinity, is a perfect synthesis of order and chaos. It is order because is perfect harmony, but it is chaos because it was not a planned order. It is simply the natural attributes of unity. The uncaused causer. The unmoved mover.

So if I'm not speaking sufficiently clear: there are natural attributes to undistorted unity. But they are not created, they are just mathematical naturalistic qualities inherent in the essence of unity. Separation is the more unnatural attribute which is an exploration of falsity. Truth, or unity, really does have a natural order to it. The attributes we experience in the illusion are a distortion of the Original Attributes. We are perceiving the original attributes poorly, and this gives rise to the illusion. Their reality is derived from the original attributes of undistorted infinity. But the One *DID* just naturally have those attributes. Why do we find those attributes "good" (too good to be true that we must assume it can't just naturally be this way)? Because that is what Go(o)d is! Our very notions of what is good were rigged from the start! They were derived from the original substrates of unity, or nonduality. "God is good". And our concept of good is naturally derived from that unity.

"The one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole, is the macrocosm of the mystery-clad being. We are messengers of the Law of One. Unity, at this approximation of understanding, cannot be specified by any physics but only be activated or potentiated intelligent infinity due to the catalyst of free will. This may be difficult to accept. However, the understandings we have to share begin and end in mystery."

It cannot be specified by physics, but it may be specified, or clarified, by searching the heart.

It's either that or it is turtles all the way down, my friend! And you will always be looking for that next turtle until you find the uncaused causer (unity as opposed to dis-unity).

[AnthroHeart]

I tried reading Zingdad's ascension papers, but it was too long.
Though I am reading books, so eh.

I guess it didn't resonate with me then. I don't remember much of it, if any.

[Stranger]

I guess I disagree with the initial premise: that the One has organized parameters (which I would define for the purposes of our conversation as planned "limitations" or "structure"). You mentioned abilities like: will, and capacities, like creating, and existing in bliss, but I don't see these as "parameters" (planned structure) so much as simply the natural state, and/or powers, inherent in not collecting into pools of illusory separation. Infinity does have natural attributes simply by virtue of being infinity. Just like a still pond is different from a rippling pond. The image reflected will be different. Unity is simply the opposite of separation or distortion. You wouldn't call the lack of separation a part of planned structure would you? It is more of a natural attribute. You experience disorder, and disharmony, in separation because there is the illusion of moving parts which builds up the illusion of friction as the very thoughtform of separation is the essence of entropy -- the tendency towards disorder rather than order.
  
I agree that oneness contains attributes (though most eastern spiritual traditions forbid speaking of them for this very reason of confusion). It is infinity though, which is all potential attributes (that doesn't mean all attributes are manifesting at once because that would be a logical contradiction). Light and dark cannot exist in the same place in equal concentrations for example. There is the unnatural (chosen caused attributes) and the super natural (latent uncaused attributes). There is an awareness in unity of that threshold at which Beingness starts to become distorted though. The threshold at which the Light of Truth (Beingness) begins to become "bent", causing a rainbow of distorted Light to occur. And it simply willed an exploration of this threshold. So to say infinity has attributes which surpass a willed limited state, like separation, doesn't contradict the idea that there are natural (again, I wouldn't call it structure) but orders to unity, or intelligent infinity. I would say unity, or intelligent infinity, is a perfect synthesis of order and chaos. It is order because is perfect harmony, but it is chaos because it was not a planned order. It is simply the natural attributes of unity. The uncaused causer. The unmoved mover.

So if I'm not speaking sufficiently clear: there are natural attributes to undistorted unity. But they are not created, they are just mathematical naturalistic qualities inherent in the essence of unity. Separation is the more unnatural attribute which is an exploration of falsity. Truth, or unity, really does have a natural order to it. The attributes we experience in the illusion are a distortion of the Original Attributes. We are perceiving the original attributes poorly, and this gives rise to the illusion. Their reality is derived from the original attributes of undistorted infinity. But the One *DID* just naturally have those attributes. Why do we find those attributes "good" (too good to be true that we must assume it can't just naturally be this way)? Because that is what Go(o)d is! Our very notions of what is good were rigged from the start! They were derived from the original substrates of unity, or nonduality. "God is good". And our concept of good is naturally derived from that unity.

"The one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole, is the macrocosm of the mystery-clad being. We are messengers of the Law of One. Unity, at this approximation of understanding, cannot be specified by any physics but only be activated or potentiated intelligent infinity due to the catalyst of free will. This may be difficult to accept. However, the understandings we have to share begin and end in mystery."

It cannot be specified by physics, but it may be specified, or clarified, by searching the heart.

It's either that or it is turtles all the way down, my friend! And you will always be looking for that next turtle until you find the uncaused causer (unity as opposed to dis-unity).

anagogy, you have understood precisely what I was saying.

Your claim is that although infinity has attributes, those attributes are inherent in the definition of infinity rather than created. My point is that this may be so, but it's an assumption and therefore may also not be so.

What we seem to be a part of here is a consciousness of infinite creative capacity that does not understand itself and therefore has to create to make sense of itself. If we consider that this is "the whole story", it sounds absurdly suspicious. It implies a lack that this being has to work to remedy! It sounds just like what happens when we are born in 3D and don't know our true nature, having therefore to fumble around creating this and that and experiencing our creations, until we figure out the larger story.

As humans, we are so focused outwards that we miss the real story, which we discover when we finally turn inwards. What if it's the reverse for the Infinite One?

I also don't think that the choice is between "this is all there is" and "turtles all the way down." All I'm suggesting is that there may be another layer of turtles of which the One is not aware, busy as it is focusing inwards on its own creations. Beyond that layer - who knows? But even the existence of that one additional "layer" would recast the entire story into a different perspective. (Not that it would have any impact on us little sparks!)

[Minyatur]

I think the Logos knows Itself to be a microcosm of true infinity, that beyond its focus lies infinite potential harvested. It knows that all that it is not and knows not exists.

The hierarchical play of distortion and manifestation can be infinite ways. There is no limit and the true nature of the One as non-dual can, and is, expressed as every side of every possible thought.

The honor/duty of the Logos is the same as sub-Logoi, it is to resolve what makes its focus separate.


Anyhow, I suggest you connect with the Logos in meditation for these things. There are no right words to convey them. It is your other-self and active principle of your reality, you can interact with it.

Another way to put it, each nexus is always held by infinity. There is no finite manner in which any thought or potential is held, always but the infinite. Attributes and qualities then are a notion of the relativeness of separation across a spectrum, like how red is red and orange is orange, the Logos has its color as part of an infinite spectrum as a relative focus. Every distortion creates an infinite spectrum reflecting the limitless, spacelessness becomes infinite space, timelessness becomes infinite time and so on. Relative perception is what yields a color, like how warm is warm only if it warms you, otherwise you would perceive it as cold. Love is the feedback of infinity observing infinity, the illusions make love complex through having layers of abstraction upon the unified eternal observation. These abstractions are born from the observation perceiving paradoxes, like how hate is born of love confused, yielding more of the potentials of love. This is so because awareness is a construct that cannot hold truth, only abstract it, as such it yields separation that needs to be resolved. In the end though there is no paradox, the One is unchanging, unmoving, little more than a constant across all thoughts that infinitely reflect it. Think of how everything on your computer works with merely 0s and 1s ordered in an intelligent manner, there are no limits to the potentials of unity because relative interpretation is what signifies any of the many things that can be made with it.

[anagogy]

anagogy, you have understood precisely what I was saying.

Your claim is that although infinity has attributes, those attributes are inherent in the definition of infinity rather than created.  My point is that this may be so, but it's an assumption and therefore may also not be so.

Of course no one knows with absolute certainty (and I would advise running from anyone if they say they do). I'm simply offering my bias of beliefs based on what I've explored.

What we seem to be a part of here is a consciousness of infinite creative capacity that does not understand itself and therefore has to create to make sense of itself.  If we consider that this is "the whole story", it sounds absurdly suspicious.  It implies a lack that this being has to work to remedy!  It sounds just like what happens when we are born in 3D and don't know our true nature, having therefore to fumble around creating this and that and experiencing our creations, until we figure out the larger story.

I think Ra was being overly simplistic when they said the creator was trying to "know itself". A more accurate way of thinking about it, from my perspective, is that it was trying to "express itself". The painter wants to paint. The creator wants to create. That is also one of the inherent natures of infinity (in my opinion). This coincides with knowing itself, however. This is not possible in the undistorted unity, so it must contract in illusion, allowing a space in which to create. A blank canvas if you will. It is the one desire that arises not from lack, but from the plenum of abundance that is infinity. So each octave is the creator making the ultimate extension of itself by, in a sense, trying to create the "perfect snowflake" which is like the perfect crystallization or picture of itself. An attempt, by the nonphysical, to purely materialize itself. Being infinite, there are infinite variations. As Ra said, the creator does not properly create, it merely experiences itself. Infinity cannot become more infinite, and it cannot become less infinite. But it can explore potential expressions, within its own substrate, which contains all potential attributes.

As was discussed in the Ra material, the construction of the archetypes was not created at once. It was like the creator was trying to paint a structure of its own self, but it was not yet a perfect representation. So there may be further refinements on the one original thought. But I think even the archetypes existed, in latent potential, before they were properly known, or articulated. It just took a lot of experience of different consciousness complexes and in various states of limited perspective for them to be exposed in bright contrast. And when they were discovered they were sown in a more tangible way into the spiritual psychology of the racial and cosmic mind. More finishing touches on the creation. There may be more yet to come. But in every octave, the creator is like: what detail could we add to this picture to make each one of these beautiful peacock feathers more distinguished (in the form of experience).

So, in each octave, there is process of infinity attempting to manifest itself as purely, exquisitely, and in as high a definition as possible within the constraints of finity. Of course an infinite being cannot do this finitely 100%, so the process of creation is free to continue forever in an eternal present (as Ra also stated). There are an infinity of finite configurations.

I also don't think that the choice is between "this is all there is" and "turtles all the way down."  All I'm suggesting is that there may be another layer of turtles of which the One is not aware, busy as it is focusing inwards on its own creations.  Beyond that layer - who knows?  But even the existence of that one additional "layer" would recast the entire story into a different perspective.  (Not that it would have any impact on us little sparks!)

Anything is possible I suppose. Thanks for sharing your views, and providing an opportunity for me to share mine.

[loostudent]

The ‎Book of Glory deals with this question through an imaginary three-sided debate between ‎Jewish philosophers concerning the nature of God, in response to the questions of a Spanish ‎king who wished to convert to Judaism. The first philosopher expressed the classic rationalist ‎position – God was totally invisible and unknowable and whatever any prophets claimed to ‎have ‘seen’ or ‘envisioned’ was a grand illusion. The second philosopher’s explanation, which ‎is taken from the writings of the 12th century Spanish Bible commentator, Abraham Ibn Ezra, ‎is the one that concerns us in this essay. ‎
‎ ‎
‎‘The highest aspect (literally ‘goodness’) of the Glory is attached to the Creator, and it is not ‎a creation. But the aspect of the Glory that faces the creations – the angels and the prophets – ‎they can see it when they direct the human mind to it…And Moshe requested from the ‎Creator to show him the highest aspect of the Glory that faces towards the Creator, which is ‎the absolute highest essence of the Creator – to see (it) And God said: For one who is alive it ‎is not appropriate to see...’ ‎
‎ ‎
The third philosopher agrees with the second on everything except one crucial point. This ‎third opinion is that of Saadia Gaon- that the Glory is a created entity and not an uncreated ‎intermediary between God and the creation. This is possibly, even likely, the crucial point of ‎disagreement between the philosophers and the mystics. ‎
‎ ‎
Analysis ‎
‎ ‎
This idea of the non-created Glory is expanded in the rest of the explanation of the second ‎philosopher. It seems to be taking a middle path in between the two opposing schools of ‎rationalist (Saadia Gaon) and literalist (the Biblical and rabbinic view in which God takes an ‎almost physical form). In this middle path, the Glory is the form God takes, but the Glory is ‎neither identical to God nor is it a creation. So what is it? ‎

More: http://fourquestionsofjudaism.com/5726828727631872

Hasidei Ashkenaz: 'Debate on the Glory of God'

King: Tell me what you think about the Creator--may God be blessed.

First Sage: What our first teacher said is true: there is a Creator who is not visible, and the things and images (DiMyonot) that the prophets saw are in [their] thoughts, for the Creator causes a thought to enter into their hearts, so that [God] is visible and is imagined (niDMeH) in a particular way, like an illusion. There is a barrier [placed] on humanity so that its eyes cannot see; hence [God] allowed this wondrous thing to be done by magicians, so that [people] should believe this thought. (131)

Second Sage: Truly, we know with our intelligence that there is a Creator, who has no end or measure, but the Glory (kavod) does have an end, and its attachment (devekut) is to the Creator. No creature has the power to see into the place of [that] attachment. Concerning this it says: 'You cannot see My Face' (Exodus 33:20)--which looks toward the Creator's essence. Therefore it does not say: 'A human cannot see My Face and live' but '[A human] cannot see Me [and live],' for the 'Face' looks toward the essence. (133-4)

Thus the Face appeared to the prophets and the Glory [looks] toward the creatures--just as it [looks] toward the essence, and towards [all] creatures, the prophets, the angels and those that ascended to their secret [Enoch, Elijah & the Riders of the Chariot?]. But in the [messianic] future, 'the Glory will appear' and 'they will see' (Isaiah 40:5)--that which [looks] towards the prophets, and the like; and the angels [will see that which looks] towards the Glory that [looks] towards created beings. (134-5)

However, [God] gave the prophets [permission] to see Him, and when they realised that He is the Glory, the greatest level, they fell on their faces, heard the words, and knew that the words [came] from before the Creator--may God be blessed--and not [from] another [being] nor [from] an angel. Thus [the divine] Name and the Face do not [look] towards the essence of the Creator, [but] towards the creatures. (135)

And when it appears (meDaMMeH) to the prophets like this, it is thus like the pupil of the eye and encompasses what it is like(?); and so in a place with windows [and] a shadow [or, a reflection] the shadow/reflection of everything the sun rises over, in water, milk or on a wall, everything is the same (DoMeH leDoMeH). Thus does the Face, and the Glory that [looks] towards [all] Creatures which is like that which [looks] towards the essence, appear to the prophets. Therefore, a person's heart turns upwards, like a person standing and speaking to a friend face to face. (136)

When a person's soul leaves the body, it bears evil corresponding to its sin. If [the person] was perfectly righteous, the soul ascends to the Throne of Glory and adheres to the Upper Throne, 'and may the soul of my lord be bound up (TZRuRah) in the bundle (biTZRoR) of life' (II Samuel 25:29). [The word] biTZRoR has the same numerical value as [the phrase] bakisse' hakodesh ('on the Holy Throne'). [Both equal 498.] And it is written 'God sits on His Holy Throne' (Psalm 47:9). (137)

Third Sage: Then the third sage said: Surely this is so, except that I differ regarding what you say about the Glory in relation to the Creator. This is not so; rather it [the Glory] is created, just as the angels were created, except that the Glory is much more wondrous and distinguished than all the angels. (137-8)

Said the third sage: the Glory is not able to adhere to the Creator. Every creature is created, and the Creator--may God be blessed--does not allow any creatures to see Him. So what the prophets saw was [something] created, a wondrous splendour. (140)

And the heart of the worshipper, with all the heart's substance, should consider the One who is supernal over all, but not consider nor imagine (yiDMeH) any sight in his heart. It is written: 'I will exalt You, O my God, O King' (Psalm 145:1); the Creator--may God be blessed--is above His blessing: 'His Glory is over the heavens' (Psalm 113:4), in order that the thought of the heart be [directed] upwards. Moreover, 'I will exalt You,' 'You are supreme over all gods' (Psalm 97:9). (140-141)

So what the prophets saw is [something] created, a wondrous thing, and what one says he saw, someone next to him would not see. For example, Elisha saw, but [his] servant did not see (cf. II Kings 5:15ff.).... Do not be surprised about this, for we also see that a person cannot look into a book until he bends his head and fixes his eyes on the book, and something that is not near to him seems merely like air to him. But '[God] made His wonders to be remembered' (Psalm 111:4); the one who is highest in [God's] memory sees and the one who asks hears. Yet do not be surprised at the voice that entered the ears of [God's] prophets, while those around them did not hear. When a person puts one end of a straw into the ear of a friend and speaks into the other end, [the friend] hears, but no one else hears. [Thus] one [person] may see visions, while another does not see. Thus some people see [visions] in thumbnails and in the 'archons of the cup', while another person does not. Thus do not be surprised about the prophets. (141)

from Oxford ms. 1567, fols. 8b-9a, in Joseph Dan, Torat HaSod Shel Hasidut Ashkenaz (The Esoteric Theology of Ashkenazi Hasidism) (Jerusalem: Mossad Bialik, 1968), pp.131-141.

http://www.tabick.abel.co.uk/hasidei_ashkenaz.html

[AnthroHeart]

If there is something beyond the One, even sixth-density Ra didn't know, or didn't talk about it.

[Minyatur]

If there is something beyond the One, even sixth-density Ra didn't know, or didn't talk about it.

I think the position of the material on this is found here and was a bit a part of what I was poorly trying to convey:

1.7 ▶ Questioner: [The question was lost because the questioner was sitting too far from the tape recorder to be recorded.]

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.

That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.

In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

To think of qualities and other qualities, or of one and another one, is to think in terms of many-ness, of the potentials of one same unity and that is not what the true infinite One is. The infinite has no limit and is  unbound to any thought.

All that is separation is illusory and not what the One is. The One is across all dimensions as without separation. It is a whole. The One is not a creature of time, as time merely reflects It in true-simultaneity.

What enables all seeking, all movement and all color of things is the intelligence of the finite aspect of focus, the limit of view point of separation. You could say that because of the nature of focus, to see is to be the whole seeing unwhole and this yields a seeking toward the One's inherent wholeness. The Octave harvest is to release focus, because however much focus leans toward infinity, it is a limit and to leap into true infinity it needs to release its abstraction of it. Each focus is like the thought of a dot in an infinite circle, an Octave is living the heartbeat of the thought of distancing and rejoining with the Source of Oneself. Each Octave is only something by not being something other, each generates a somewhen/somewhere in the thought of not being other relative somewhens/somewheres. The One as the Infinite always creates an infinite spectrum when reflected through the prism that are thoughts, It can only find infinite opportunity. From true timelessness, only everywhenness can be touched, because somewhen is a notion of relativity just like somewhere is. Remove all relativity to something and you have the absence of the thing, because each thing is signified by contrast.

There is One Infinity. Never less, but the infinite reflection of the thought of as if less than something as an intelligent principle. Never more, but the infinite reflection of the thought of as if more than something as an intelligent principle. The One is the absolute, the illusion/mirror is relativity.

[Nau7ik]

If there is something beyond the One, even sixth-density Ra didn't know, or didn't talk about it.

This is a quote from a meditation I recently did on the Hebrew letter Heh ה :

Creation hath its origin in life unlimited,
Yet for the sake of manifestation
Doth that life descend into the appearance
Of Time and Place,
And that which hath neither end nor beginning
Appeareth to be born,
And to be brought at last to death.
Deluded by this appearance are those ignorant ones
In whom the light of my wisdom hath not yet dawned.
From their delusion springeth a false desire,
And from that false desire is generated unrighteous action.
Yet nothing is performed save by my power,
And I am the real Actor in these deluded ones,
As truly as in any sage.

From the fires of pain and suffering
Kindled by their ignorance,
In my good time shall they come forth,
Cleansed from the dross of illusion,
Resplendent images of my golden self.

9 My creative power is the projection of myself,
And produceth the semblance of another;
But know, O Israel,
That besides me there is none other.
I only am the Knower and the Actor,
The one I AM,
Whether alone and unmanifest,
Or appearing in the multiplicity of created things.

—The Book of Tokens by Paul Foster Case

[Patrick]

 
To answer your question... yes.  There is more than the One that anyone from any densities can perceive as the One.

Within Infinity exists the set of all possibilities.  The great mystery is that Infinity is also "more" than the set of all possibilities.  All possibilities could also be called "the potential for everything".

It's not possible for us to understand what it is to be "more" than everything.  Yet that is what each of us are.
 

[flofrog]

So love this, Patrick, thank you

[unity100]

The One who started out as an undifferentiated whole still exists within parameters.  At the very least, the One exists; is capable of creation; capable of experiencing itself; has at least one motive - eg, the motive to explore itself and its infinite capacities.  It has capacities.  It exists in bliss rather than just "exists."

In other words: The One has a *structure* inherent in it, even at the highest level, apart from all of its creation/illusion.  It is not just an undifferentiated amorphous blob of Being - not even at its very core. 

The One did not "just happen" to have these attributes.

So then why does The One have these attributes in the first place?

What if The One is also, itself, a (hyper-)veiled part of a larger Reality?

This may be one of my important posts... Here goes:

- 'The one', or intelligent infinity as we call it, for starters, is not 'one'. Its also many. All the finite fragments that are observed in lower stages come from that 'one'.

- Intelligent infinity does not have structures or attributes. Intelligent infinity is the collection of all things, including what we call structure and what we call attribute, along with all their variations.

- Intelligent infinity exists. It does not do anything in particular to 'experience itself' or, 'discover' itself or 'experience bliss' or this or that. It exists.

- It exists, because it is separated from something that completes it to infinity. What is that thing, is uncertain. The separation of intelligent infinity from infinity, causing infinity to gain potential and become intelligent, is the 1st thing in creation that is below infinity.

- If intelligent infinity can be told to be 'discovering' something, it can possibly be that other thing. Which is separated from it. Which can be a lack of potential, or a lack of intelligence, judging from how infinite intelligence is differentiated from infinity. The simple reason is that infinite intelligence and its counterpart must complete each other to become infinity.

- Things do not happen. Everything that 'happens' is the perception of change which a finite observer experiences while moving through different states of infinite intelligence. Infinite intelligence has infinite states. And moving through these states as a finite observer is not unlike seeing different picture frames passing by in front of one's eyes, creating the illusion of a film. If the finite observer goes back to a different point in the states of infinite intelligence which it just passed before, it will see that things are still the same in that particular state of infinite intelligence, just as how they were 'back in time'. In short, time itself is an illusion. Its a comparison of the rate of change of the observance of the states of infinite intelligence, to rate of change of observance of states, again, of the infinite intelligence.

- Therefore from the point infinity, nothing is happening, everything is happening, and everything has happened. It is not a perception of happening at this point, its just a state. This is why some people who have higher experiences or convey advanced spiritual knowledge through channels or other means, describe the point infinity as 'you have always been there, you never left'. It is a state of being which has that impression. And the impression is correct.

- Whereas actually point infinity is not point infinity, because nothing finite can ever be infinite. It will take an infinite amount of time. So these experiences of point infinity are experiences of near-infinity which can be experienced in between this (or any) given creation, and the next one. Inside a black hole. But whether this infinity point and the temporary merge to infinity happens on the event horizon, or inside the black hole, is a bit unclear.

- Which makes existence an infinite journey. The finite entity will never fully merge to infinity. But it will experience infinite time intervals in which it is 'temporarily' merged with infinity. Which are, temporary, but infinite at the same time.

- Which makes it a proposition that infinity itself is totally inert, a null factor when comparing to everything that exists. It is a null state that is even higher than infinite intelligence and its counterpart, totally being inert in relation to everything that exists (and dont exist). That is why it is named as eternal mystery, and all things being and end in mystery. Including in Ra material. But then again, per its nature, infinity cannot be mysterious only - it has to be also obvious, otherwise it would not be infinite by lacking one attribute. Therefore, again an contradiction and duality which must complete itself is encountered while probing infinity, causing the investigation to end up, again, in unresolved mystery.

[Stranger]

Very nice summary, unity100! The lucidity of your answer makes me wonder: who are you when you are not incarnated on Earth? (it's OK if you don't want to share, I'm just curious).

Much appreciation for the beautiful narrative.

I think what I was referring to as being beyond "the One" is what you described as the distinction between Infinity and Intelligent Infinity. The former I believe is what had been described to me as "the Ground of Being - it is not a mind, it is not a consciousness, it just is. No one understands it."

The aspect of all of this that seems to me so difficult to accept as the ultimate truth is: the existence of a consciousness, of infinite creative capacity, that does not fully comprehend itself. It's the same thing I believe you're referring to when you say

"If intelligent infinity can be told to be 'discovering' something, it can possibly be that other thing. Which is separated from it. Which can be a lack of potential, or a lack of intelligence, judging from how infinite intelligence is differentiated from infinity. The simple reason is that infinite intelligence and its counterpart must complete each other to become infinity."

It is clear that "a consciousness of infinite creative capacity" does in fact exist - we're a part of it, that much is not at all in doubt. But then, the fact that a consciousness of that unfathomable capacity is unclear about something strikes me very much as not being accidental. There must be more to the story, even if intelligent infinity does not know what that is. Do you know what I mean?

[kristina]

The One is creation. The One is experiencing itself. The One is experiecing itself by motivation of It's will. Bliss is a state of balanced beingness. All is One, the One is All.

[Cyan]

No, but its a very convincing simulation you should believe in.