Relative Value of Money

[turtledude23]

The majority of people in "developed" countries don't like their jobs, let alone in developing countries. We work for money because we need it to buy things we need and things we want. People give us goods and services in exchange for money because they assume it has a value. Its a material equivalent of energy. But in new relatively new countries like the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. one day a central bank produced a bunch of coins and bills to replace bartering. These pieces of metal and woven cloth or paper only had value because everyone in the country agreed that they have value. Now we we have international trade with many different currencies, each is accepted as having a certain value.

So how can governments be in debt or run out of money if they create it and assign it value? The currencies initial value was arbitrarily assigned, surely any country in financial trouble like Greece could somehow change their currency. I'm not talking about just printing more, that causes inflation, I mean stepping up and saying to the domestic and foreign companies "I don't care how much money you want for your product/service, we can't provide that, take what we're offering or stop doing business in this country", then it would be possible to create even wealth distribution and low prices without socialism or communism.

And from what I've heard - though from conspiracy theory type sources - this is how central banks work: they print money and give it to banks at interest, the banks need to pay the central bank back with interest, but to pay that interest they need to take out even more money, which also has interest, thereby creating never ending debt. If this is true then its probably the biggest scandal in the world since every country does it and no media covers it. If this is true then no media coverage makes sense because big conspiracies on national and international levels are usually suppressed, but from my understanding the world is run by the exchange of money in a way that whatever government is in power makes little difference. If that's true then this scam of collecting interest on ALL money in the entire world would be the biggest conspiracy of all and the last thing "the powers that be" would allow to be mentioned in the media. I mean you hear about interest rates all the time in the news, but how many people ask "what does that really mean?". I heard a business student talking about this very issue of central banks lending with interest once so maybe it is true.

I'd like to share a quote from Julian Assange:

"The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade."

And a quote from the founder of a banking family in Europe, Mayer Amschel Rothschild:

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

Your thoughts?

[unity100]

Assange is beyond right. We are really free in speech, because, really, speech has no effect on anything. And even free speech, is not a freedom you can practice if you dont have enough money. You will be only able to speak freely with your friend circle, family, or people in your locale - your free speech wont affect anything globally or nationally. And to have enough money for your speech to be effective, you need to comply with the existing establishment. else you cant have money. Attempts at censoring wikileaks show this very well.

however this is not some issue related to central banks. it wont go away when central banks arent there. it is something related to the system - even if central banks are not there, the mass media will still be owned by big corporations. if they dont let you, you cant practice your free speech to change anything. only choice is to become a big corporation yourself, but, for doing that you need to obey the establishment.

so, its inherent to the system. the system of orange ray ownership, organized by yellow ray organization traits -> our current capitalist system. entities own, and grow, and grow (just like how a 2d entity constantly eats and grows), and eventually a power structure forms, with the biggest dogs ruling the rest.

[turtledude23]

Newspapers have always pushed the envelopes of free speech when TV news didn't, they are the one part of the mainstream media thats more difficult to corrupt because they're run by good journalists who want accurate facts and to get the story out quickly. Cablegate was published by The Guardian, The New York Times, and several other large papers. Back in the 70's The New York Times published The Pentagon Papers and The Washington Post published coverage of The Watergate Scandal. All this despite enormous government and corporate pressure to censor the papers.

[Lorna]

about 15 years ago i went to a david icke lecture and i remember him talking in a very similar way about the global financial system - he made the whole thing sound laughable

what i really came on to post though was your reference to most people not liking their jobs - it's always within your power to find the joy and the love in whatever you do. when i was around 14 my family went on a trip to london - we were having lunch at the british museum and she noticed a man who was picking up litter and cleaning the floor and doing so with such joy and pride in what he was doing - he was radiant. my mum noticed and pointed out to my brother and sister how alive he seemed compared to everyone else in the room who didn't even see him - she noticed him, respected him and made eye contact with him to thank him for his work. that man doing the most humble of jobs was a valuable lesson for 3 children. whatever you do for work there will always be opportunities to make it about far more than just money x

[Brittany]

Over the years money has seemed increasingly useless to me. When you actually take the time to stop and look at it, it is nothing- just cheap scraps of paper with little pictures posted onto them. The way our economy is going, I think more and more people are coming close to realizing that this system is standing on rusty legs and readying to topple over. I say let it topple. Things would be a mess for a while, sure, but at least then we could start rebuilding with a better system instead of pretending nothing is wrong with the increasing state of debt and inflation.

[zenmaster]

With the crowd-sourcing capability of the internet, bartering could be facilitated. Services could be infinitely more efficient and customizable than they are now.

[unity100]

what i really came on to post though was your reference to most people not liking their jobs - it's always within your power to find the joy and the love in whatever you do.

then how about finding joy while working as a slave in a negative 4th density planet ?

With the crowd-sourcing capability of the internet, bartering could be facilitated. Services could be infinitely more efficient and customizable than they are now.

someone commented very aptly regarding the subject in some other board :

'in a dog eat dog environment, you eventually end up with one very fat dog'.

as long as profit and ownership concepts remain, even the barter system will end up creating entities or groups who hold much more power than others through their wealth.

there were wealthy merchants influencing the fate of events back before lydians invented coins (hence money) before 600 BC too.

[Lorna]

unity i don't understand your response to my post - we're not in a 4D negative planet?

and anyway regardless of that:

Ra: I am Ra.

Exercise One. This is the most nearly centered and useable within your illusion complex. The moment contains love. That is the lesson/goal of this illusion or density. The exercise is to consciously see that love in awareness and understanding distortions. The first attempt is the cornerstone. Upon this choosing rests the remainder of the life-experience of an entity. The second seeking of love within the moment begins the addition. The third seeking empowers the second, the fourth powering or doubling the third. As with the previous type of empowerment, there will be some loss of power due to flaws within the seeking in the distortion of insincerity. However, the conscious statement of self to self of the desire to seek love is so central an act of will that, as before, the loss of power due to this friction is inconsequential.

[unity100]

unity i don't understand your response to my post - we're not in a 4D negative planet?

i meant, it is not possible to find joy, or, to find joy in similar levels, in any/all circumstances. had it been as such, there would be no need for different densities - an entity would be able to manifest 8d energy in 1d easily, or 6d energy in 2d easily. so, conditions, matter.

and anyway regardless of that:

Ra: I am Ra.

Exercise One. This is the most nearly centered and useable within your illusion complex. The moment contains love. That is the lesson/goal of this illusion or density. The exercise is to consciously see that love in awareness and understanding distortions.

a positive entity, placed in a negative environment, or forced to function like a negative entity, would experience discomfort. this is the problem with our current society. entities are inherently positive or neutral, however, our social system forces negative functioning through social rules and constructs of orange ray-yellow ray. an entity working for 10+ hours to make ends meet, constantly devoid of various vital energies, and therefore having issues in his various chakras, will be hard pressed to be able to manifest any kind of joy.

this is what im saying.

[turtledude23]

Lorna I like your example, its inspiring. But janitor is a good job in some ways: you go at your own pace, you're alone, you can think to yourself, the act it self of cleaning up garbage could be done like a meditation excercise. Jobs like some kind of bureaucrat or fast food worker would be harder to enjoy. I think unity's point was that alot of the world now are virtual slaves, like children in running shoe factories in asia, but I'm not what 4th density STS has to do with 3rd density in transition to 4th denstity STO.

[Aaron]

i meant, it is not possible to find joy, or, to find joy in similar levels, in any/all circumstances. had it been as such, there would be no need for different densities - an entity would be able to manifest 8d energy in 1d easily, or 6d energy in 2d easily. so, conditions, matter.

I would say that is entirely possible for an entity to find joy in whatever situation they're in, directly proportional to their amount of contact with Intelligent Infinity they obtain, and variable in intensity in regards to their history (soul age). Joy doesn't necessarily mean 8d energies in 1d, or 6d energies in 2d. It means finding one's-self in sync with all that is around them, no matter what form everything around them is taking at the time.

a positive entity, placed in a negative environment, or forced to function like a negative entity, would experience discomfort. this is the problem with our current society. entities are inherently positive or neutral, however, our social system forces negative functioning through social rules and constructs of orange ray-yellow ray. an entity working for 10+ hours to make ends meet, constantly devoid of various vital energies, and therefore having issues in his various chakras, will be hard pressed to be able to manifest any kind of joy.

this is what im saying.

I think what you say is true about positive entities in negative environments. It's that state of being hard pressed to find the self and manifest joy that we as the Creator seek outside of incarnation. It's the challenge we offer to ourselves. If that person that you describe is able to find the will to manifest joy, it will be all the more rewarding. Although it is possible for an entity to, as Q'uo would say, become mired in the experience working many hours a week and being completely at the worst whims of the carelessness of our inherently negative society. It's true in that case that we have extreme inefficiency. But it's not like it wasn't deliberately constructed by Infinite Intelligence to offer the most efficiency in another dimension, at another time, or from another angle.

[unity100]

I would say that is entirely possible for an entity to find joy in whatever situation they're in, directly proportional to their amount of contact with Intelligent Infinity they obtain, and variable in intensity in regards to their history (soul age). Joy doesn't necessarily mean 8d energies in 1d, or 6d energies in 2d. It means finding one's-self in sync with all that is around them, no matter what form everything around them is taking at the time.

had that been an actuality, there would be no need to create more than one density with their original environments to manifest inside them.

I think what you say is true about positive entities in negative environments. It's that state of being hard pressed to find the self and manifest joy that we as the Creator seek outside of incarnation. It's the challenge we offer to ourselves. If that person that you describe is able to find the will to manifest joy, it will be all the more rewarding. Although it is possible for an entity to, as Q'uo would say, become mired in the experience working many hours a week and being completely at the worst whims of the carelessness of our inherently negative society. It's true in that case that we have extreme inefficiency. But it's not like it wasn't deliberately constructed by Infinite Intelligence to offer the most efficiency in another dimension, at another time, or from another angle.

actually it is a more general formula.

in order to vibrate in, and manifest the meaning of any given ray, you need to be, well, able to vibrate in that ray.

so basically, the environment you are in needs to be able to support those vibrations. else, you wont be able to maintain that vibration there, for so long.

see, some planets are passing from 1std at the moment, we are told. cant these planets support 2d bacterial life ? why arent they ?

some are 2d planets. like earth was, 80,000 years or so ago. why wasnt it able to support 3d life ?

quo says, thankfully the need for a catastrophic removal of population on this planet has been averted, due to a lot of lightworker groups, disincarnate entities and other sources helping and storing/replenishing the yellow ray on this planet.

so, that means, had it been otherwise, the amount of yellow ray manifested by this planet wouldnt be able to support those entities in yellow vibration, DESPITE the planet would be able to fully support a 4d life ...

so, as you can see, in order to manifest and maintain a certain energy model, environment needs to be susceptible.

one can easily apply this to other factors. like, you wont be able to field sufficient energy or high vibration, if your mind, body or spirit is not able to do, due to any factor. (tiredom, expiration, this that). by looking at various difficulties ll team encountered while trying to maintain Ra contact, one can easily come up with this conclusion.

---

Anyway, back to the thread,

http://www.bitcoin.org/

bitcoin is a p2p currency project that aims to liberate the money system from central controlling agencies, and inflation and whatnot. so far, its gaining traction.

[Aaron]

That bitcoin thing is really interesting... If everyone jumped on the bandwagon, we'd be free of having to use government controlled currency. That is, assuming the system could be upgraded fast enough to handle it, and resisted government efforts to take it down.

[fairyfarmgirl]

It takes time to learn a new way of doing things and relating. There will be a time of adjustment and displacement. This is unfortunately due to the Social Ordering and Controllers that currently are in power. It is not just about someone not being "good" enough at manifestation... it also has to do with understanding and applying the steps to actively and effectively using the Law of Manifestation.

Humans have many habits that also impede this process of transformation... myself included: creating from past experience and Anger. Anger diminishes the creative process. Anger against self (depression, sadness, blame/shame. hatred, destructive tendencies) contract energy building and the creation process. This is where most creation becomes bogged down.

It is only through transforming these patterns that true creation can begin. It is a process of self discovery, connection and empowerment to Self and Others and the asking for assistance and empowering the Divine to assist (some call these Emissaries, Angels, the Dakini, Goddesses etc of if I may be so bold as to say Ra) through intention, meditation and/or prayer that creation on the scale that is required to transmute and create a new way of life for Self and others is possible.

Otherwise it is simply a continual repetition of what feels like unfortunate financial events, being "stuck" at a dead end job, and being unable to shift into doing what one is called to do and still be financially supported is what results. It is not enough to just intend. There is more to this that just intending. Expection is also part of this creation of the new.


fairyfarmgirl

[JoshC]

The majority of people in "developed" countries don't like their jobs, let alone in developing countries. We work for money because we need it to buy things we need and things we want. People give us goods and services in exchange for money because they assume it has a value. Its a material equivalent of energy. But in new relatively new countries like the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. one day a central bank produced a bunch of coins and bills to replace bartering. These pieces of metal and woven cloth or paper only had value because everyone in the country agreed that they have value. Now we we have international trade with many different currencies, each is accepted as having a certain value.

So how can governments be in debt or run out of money if they create it and assign it value? The currencies initial value was arbitrarily assigned, surely any country in financial trouble like Greece could somehow change their currency. I'm not talking about just printing more, that causes inflation, I mean stepping up and saying to the domestic and foreign companies "I don't care how much money you want for your product/service, we can't provide that, take what we're offering or stop doing business in this country", then it would be possible to create even wealth distribution and low prices without socialism or communism.

I dunno about conspiracy theories since I don't pay them much heed. This post will address part of your OP

On the first paragraph, that's basically right. It started out as we agreed on certain items having more inherent worth, such as things like gold, silver, bronze, stones, salt, and other useful materials. Then, because barter has several problems with it (like how there's no uniform currency, items can expire, people have to have what other people want, etc), we moved to a system where currency represented those items; in the case of the United States (and most of the world) that is paper money representing gold. We now operate on a system of "fiat money" - that is, money does not represent gold and gets its value from the masses agreeing that it has worth and trusting that it will keep its worth.

Governments can be in debt or run out of money because there are more than one of them. If there were a single government, there couldn't be debt (Edit: wrong, there could be debt - see next post). Because government a owes government b something, government b will hold that debt against government a. If government a thinks it can't pay back that debt and it defaults on the debts, then it loses respect and trust in the international community and the value of its money plummets.

:idea:

[unity100]

government still could owe to its citizens even if there was only one govt., through public debt.

[JoshC]

government still could owe to its citizens even if there was only one govt., through public debt.

Oh yea of course Actually I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed that, cuz I was thinking government-to-government while positing there's only one government... lol.

:idea:

[Ali Quadir]

Unity, I saw bitcoin before, do you know how they plan to avoid people just making their own new bitcoins? I don't see how anything digital and decentralized could be impossible to duplicate. Why would I not be able to give the same bitcoin I bought milk with yesterday to the baker today?

[unity100]

Unity, I saw bitcoin before, do you know how they plan to avoid people just making their own new bitcoins? I don't see how anything digital and decentralized could be impossible to duplicate. Why would I not be able to give the same bitcoin I bought milk with yesterday to the baker today?

check their faq. it is a very high level encryption scheme, in which the network also knows how much you have.

you actually can create bitcoins, the system actually creates you bitcoins. this is a payback for you allowing the network use your computer power to run it. but, it is proportional to participants. if there are few participants in networks (as it was before) and therefore few cpu power to run the network, your cpu would generate much more coins. but now there are a lot of people and huge processing power available, and generating 1 bitcoin takes more than 704 hours with a decent computer.

technically you can create a server farm, do parallel computing and generate bitcoins. but you would pay more for electricity than the potential value of the bitcoin you generate.

system is rather based on that. it assumes the power of electricity is a factor in this. and rather right too, because if electricity becomes widely available and free, it is possible that we may actually not need any coin or money for anything, in that abundance.