Logos completion and individuality

[loostudent]

"Each entity is only superficially that which blooms and dies. In the deeper sense there is no end to beingness."

"The seventh-density being, the completed being, the Creator who knows Itself, accumulates mass and compacts into the One Creator once again."

"This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion." (Ra)

What is Logos completion? What happens to Logos? Is this:
a) the ultimate death of each entity of this octave,
b) some kind of resting state in unity or
c) does the journey continue?

[loostudent]

Looks like 8th density is a timeless state:

Thus the transition of the octave is a process which may be seen to enter into timelessness of unimaginable nature.

[GentleReckoning]

"Each entity is only superficially that which blooms and dies. In the deeper sense there is no end to beingness."

"The seventh-density being, the completed being, the Creator who knows Itself, accumulates mass and compacts into the One Creator once again."

"This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion." (Ra)

What is Logos completion? What happens to Logos? Is this:
a) the ultimate death of each entity of this octave,
b) some kind of resting state in unity or
c) does the journey continue?

It is the subconscious arguments about reality, life, and meaning that we play out every day of our life. Once they are consciously realized, then they are evaluated, modified, or adjusted. Balanced if you will. Doing this consciously is 7th density, otherwise the typical time for argument adjustment is simply as the larger bodies of this solar system move towards or against each-other.

It is being the puppet vs the puppet master. 7th density, and 8th density consciousness is learning to be comfortable with both as the impacts of consciously changing the fundamentals and alignments of the incarnation are experienced and balanced.

[Silk]

First:

Logos is Greek for "speech, discourse, reasoning" (see: logic, interlocutor, lecture, loquacious, the -logy suffix, etc). That is to say: a principle of outflowing organization. This is why the Bible reads "in the beginning was the Word". The faculty of "speech" or "voice" used to have much more powerful connotations millennia ago (the relative undistortedness of Hebrew, for example). Some traces of this can be readily observed in modern magical terms such as "grimmoire " (ie. grammar), "spell" (the casting of), "invocation/evocation" (to vocalize or call in/out), "enchantment" (to chant; eg. Gregorian style), etc.

Special mention should be given to the Tower of Babble (Babel) and the "confusion of tongues" (the perversion of language). Parallel this with the gargantuan levels of illiteracy exhibited today: the inability to "read" or "spell" is symptomatic of a lack of attention/care (Love), tied to basic pattern recognition, and consequently absence of wisdom in its most minimal faculties of discernment (to perceive deeply, to tell b@llshit apart from truth). This illiteracy then results in susceptibility at being manipulated by those who know how to cast a "spell" (just turn on your Tell-lie-Vision, take a look at politics, bureaucracy, legislation, mass media: soft neurolinguistic programming at work). Why are thousands of millions of people hypnotized by single speaker on a podium, after all? Witness the programming of a nation of robots.

The Logos or "Word" of God is, by its very nature, a principle of activity, and hence, creativity. These concepts (activity/creativity) are indistinguishable, as any movement, utterance or vibration is inevitably creative: it effects a change one state to another. Contrast this with inactivity, stasis or changelessness which, following the analogy, would be Silence: Infinity at rest, the pure potentiality from which the "Words" or Logoi are uttered.

And that is the Logos, in essence and function. The "second distortion", as Ra calls it: Love, the Original Thought, the focusing, organizing, ordering principle; the power of deeply-held attention.

With that in mind, the following may hopefully be more coherently addressed:

What is Logos completion? What happens to Logos?

What must inevitably happen once any eye is opened: it is, eventually, closed. "Lights on. Lights out." Except the Creator/Infinity is not limited to just one pair of eyes. As such, Logos completion merely refers to the finalization of Creation and the re-absorption of 7D's "spiritual mass" into Infinity.

a) the ultimate death of each entity of this octave,

Except there are no "entities" (ie. plural, separate, fractal little egos of apparently varied identities). There is only One, and that One is Infinity: pure, undistorted, changeless, immeasurable, absolute potential perfectly at rest "awaiting" its "next" potentiation.

Only those unwilling/incapable to "lose" their cherished (id)entity may throw tantrums of resistance or rejection at inevitability. Regardless: these too are bound to "surrender" their attachments, in time, and in so doing dispel the illusion to uncover Reality.

The ego or sense of individual "self" is only carried over and retained from 3D thru 5D (with some overlay/bleedthrough occurring very late in 2D and early portions of 6D). As such, it is neither necessary nor expected for 3D entities to grasp the concept of true selflessness (especially considering 3D is the first density/dimension whereupon the notion of self-identity is attained and asserted, so the fascination with "selfhood" is not unsurprising).

Along the course of 6D the sense of "individuality" will be completely abandoned/outgrown. This will continue until all portions of separatedness are melded/fused into a new unified amalgamation more closely reflecting the nature of the Creator (this would be, to the keen observer, the reverse opposite of what occurs along the course of 2D wherein the cellular/genetic mass splits into many separate proto-entities via asexual reproductive processes over billions of years to eventually result in the distinctively separate animal/plants lifeforms with likewise partitioned male/female functionality as commonly understood).

By 7D even that "collective singularity" of 6D will be relinquished in preparation to the re-absorption and dissolution into Infinity. No memory, no past, no future, no history, no (id)entity. At the verge of Reality.

b) some kind of resting state in unity or

Once fulfilled or exhausted of its limits, Creation is systematically consummated or re-absorbed back into Infinity to return to absolute potential perfectly at rest. In that sense, yes, a true Unity/Infinity.

This only occurs once 7D has achieved a sufficient state of "spiritual gravity", however.

c) does the journey continue?

Every Creation's end is spelled the moment it is begun. The "journey" is the Creation: the evolutionary progression or transition of consciousness from the red vibratory spectrum to the violet. So yes, that which is born from the Creator must inevitably die in the Creator (beyond the rainbow, beyond the holographically kaleidoscopic Light Show).

Thus, it ends the same way it begun: in that unspeakable Reality (the true Mystery), a timeless, spaceless, changeless state of absolutely immeasurable potentiality.

The process of Creation, however, is infinitely free and bound to continue ever-presently.

[loostudent]

Salt, you are right. SMC in 6d is still a group of entities only unified - they are of one oreientation, understanding their social beingness, completely see each the other’s thoughts, feelings, and motives. In 7d the SMC becomes "one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all." Beyond space/time only the present exists.

But at the end of previous octave still something remained - a harvest for this octave. Ra said: "we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all." What does this mean? Is there a possibility that they don't reach next density in this cycle of creation?

[Louisabell]

Salt, you are right. SMC in 6d is still a group of entities only unified - they are of one oreientation, understanding their social beingness, completely see each the other’s thoughts, feelings, and motives. In 7d the SMC becomes "one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all." Beyond space/time only the present exists.

But at the end of previous octave still something remained - a harvest for this octave. Ra said: "we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all." What does this mean? Is there a possibility that they don't reach next density in this cycle of creation?

In 3D you are self-aware. In 4D you are aware of a social memory, in 5D you are aware that wisdom is light and that this light can be manipulated/distorted, in 6D you are aware that you are the light itself, and so I predict in 7D you become aware that you are all light that ever was and will be. Thereby you rest in all interaction between Creator and Itself.

There is no loss, only gain, where each step up the densities is a step up in awareness.

[Glow]

What is Logos completion? What happens to Logos?

What must inevitably happen once any eye is opened: it is, eventually, closed. "Lights on. Lights out." Except the Creator/Infinity is not limited to just one pair of eyes. As such, Logos completion merely refers to the finalization of Creation and the re-absorption of 7D's "spiritual mass" into Infinity.

a) the ultimate death of each entity of this octave,

Except there are no "entities" (ie. plural, separate, fractal little egos of apparently varied identities). There is only One, and that One is Infinity: pure, undistorted, changeless, immeasurable, absolute potential perfectly at rest "awaiting" its "next" potentiation.

Only those unwilling/incapable to "lose" their cherished (id)entity may throw tantrums of resistance or rejection at inevitability. Regardless: these too are bound to "surrender" their attachments, in time, and in so doing dispel the illusion to uncover Reality.

The ego or sense of individual "self" is only carried over and retained from 3D thru 5D (with some overlay/bleedthrough occurring very late in 2D and early portions of 6D). As such, it is neither necessary nor expected for 3D entities to grasp the concept of true selflessness (especially considering 3D is the first density/dimension whereupon the notion of self-identity is attained and asserted, so the fascination with "selfhood" is not unsurprising).

Along the course of 6D the sense of "individuality" will be completely abandoned/outgrown. This will continue until all portions of separatedness are melded/fused into a new unified amalgamation more closely reflecting the nature of the Creator (this would be, to the keen observer, the reverse opposite of what occurs along the course of 2D wherein the cellular/genetic mass splits into many separate proto-entities via asexual reproductive processes over billions of years to eventually result in the distinctively separate animal/plants lifeforms with likewise partitioned male/female functionality as commonly understood).

By 7D even that "collective singularity" of 6D will be relinquished in preparation to the re-absorption and dissolution into Infinity. No memory, no past, no future, no history, no (id)entity. At the verge of Reality.

b) some kind of resting state in unity or

Once fulfilled or exhausted of its limits, Creation is systematically consummated or re-absorbed back into Infinity to return to absolute potential perfectly at rest. In that sense, yes, a true Unity/Infinity.

This only occurs once 7D has achieved a sufficient state of "spiritual gravity", however.

c) does the journey continue?

Every Creation's end is spelled the moment it is begun. The "journey" is the Creation: the evolutionary progression or transition of consciousness from the red vibratory spectrum to the violet. So yes, that which is born from the Creator must inevitably die in the Creator (beyond the rainbow, beyond the holographically kaleidoscopic Light Show).

Thus, it ends the same way it begun: in that unspeakable Reality (the true Mystery), a timeless, spaceless, changeless state of absolutely immeasurable potentiality.

The process of Creation, however, is infinitely free and bound to continue ever-presently.

Except all this rests on a belief in there being actual time outside the illusion.
The beginning and end is both complete and just beginning a new.

This is why I find free will an issue. It's already done what ever you are going to do. You doing it may have depended on your belief in free will and choice do do so but from another place in time it had already happened. It was always going to happen.

[Louisabell]

Except all this rests on a belief in there being actual time outside the illusion.
The beginning and end is both complete and just beginning a new.

This is why I find free will an issue. It's already done what ever you are going to do. You doing it may have depended on your belief in free will and choice do do so but from another place in time it had already happened. It was always going to happen.

I tend to disagree with this.

I think there has always been a path laid out for us back to Creator as a function of evolution, but it is our freewill choices along that path that allows for the surprises, delays, shortcuts, twists and turns. It gives our journey even more uniqueness and intrigue.

I think that's why 3d is so powerful a density, you can change timelines that stretch out eons of time just by making conscious choices throughout your day.

[Glow]

Except all this rests on a belief in there being actual time outside the illusion.
The beginning and end is both complete and just beginning a new.

This is why I find free will an issue. It's already done what ever you are going to do. You doing it may have depended on your belief in free will and choice do do so but from another place in time it had already happened. It was always going to happen.

I tend to disagree with this.

I think there has always been a path laid out for us back to Creator as a function of evolution, but it is our freewill choices along that path that allows for the surprises, delays, shortcuts, twists and turns. It gives our journey even more uniqueness and intrigue.

I think that's why 3d is so powerful a density, you can change timelines that stretch out eons of time just by making conscious choices throughout your day.

Maybe that is your journey. We have to believe our decision matter to make the appropriate choice but set in stone and freewill(at eternal now) aren’t actually mutually exclusive. Outside of time we can move back to the past and make the same freewill decision that was always made and it can still just be happening.

No worries if we don’t agree.

[Louisabell]

Maybe that is your journey. We have to believe our decision matter to make the appropriate choice but set in stone and freewill(at eternal now) aren’t actually mutually exclusive. Outside of time we can move back to the past and make the same freewill decision that was always made and it can still just be happening.

No worries if we don’t agree.

I thought you were making a case for determinism, but I can see now that you weren't. I think we probably mostly agree, it's just hard to convey these thoughts in language.

[loostudent]

There is no loss, only gain, where each step up the densities is a step up in awareness.

The whole evolution process is meaningles if all is just an illusion and after being born (many times) in 3d and all the strguggle and evolving through densities you are annihilated in "nirvana". It is as you haven't existed. It seems nihilistic.

[Louisabell]

There is no loss, only gain, where each step up the densities is a step up in awareness.

The whole evolution process is meaningles if all is just an illusion and after being born (many times) in 3d and all the strguggle and evolving through densities you are annihilated in "nirvana". It is as you haven't existed. It seems nihilistic.

I think it seems nihilistic because it is a nihilistic point of view! I love this quote from Ra:

18.5 Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”

Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

I think Ra is saying here that we are to become fully self-actualized individuals before we proceed to another density. Our native density is what intensity of light we are comfortable with because of all the knowledge and skill we've gained, not lost.

[Silk]

Ra said: "we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all." What does this mean? Is there a possibility that they don't reach next density in this cycle of creation?

There are "apertures" or "windows of opportunity" for all such things. Cycles within cycles, if you will. Not unlike rigorously-tuned clockwork mechanisms. Or the seasons, if you prefer: although some flowers may sprout in winter, it is far more common for flowers to sprout more profusely and successfully during spring. Thus, when the clock strikes the hour, advancement into the next dimension/density is most readily attainable.

Ra is/are in 6D. Unless "they" manage/wish to graduate during the cycle, 7D will be properly "activated" at some later point (no different than this sphere undergoing full 4D activation presently, facilitating transition on a massive scale). Those of Ra may still have some "karmic ties" to untangle, so to speak. Their evolution may very well be (more or less) predicated upon some such small mishap(s). Hence, their "humble efforts" remark.

Either way: everything reaches 7D at "sooner" or "later". All of Creation consolidates at that point before the Grand Illusion is over.

Except all this rests on a belief in there being actual time outside the illusion.

There is no time, except in the illusion of separetedness as experienced by evolving beings (whether pre-ego, with ego, or post-ego) across the dimensions/densities. Without such illusory limitations (time or space) there could be no experiential measurement of growth or progression and the ultimate realization of Infinity would be unattainable.

This is why I find free will an issue. It's already done what ever you are going to do

Freewill, as commonly (mis)understood, is only possible within an illusion of separatedness. This should be self-evident. Within this (limited) context, you are "free" do do what you will.

However, there is ultimately, obviously, only One Will: the Creator/Infinity's.

This is difficult enough to accept for those who cherish their apparent individuality (especially in a world which worships and glorifies identity and self-expression to the point of unbridled extravagance and maniacal obsession—from music/film "celebrities" and other such "idols" of practically deified status, down to the more mitigated but not any less widespread "selfie" phenomenon of recent years).

Most 3D planetary civilizations (despite being similarly veiled) don't suffer this affliction. This one ("Earth") finds itself in categorically distinct situation in that you have a hodge-podge of mismatching 3D races (from completely different planetary origins) thrown together in the same bowl, so to speak. The added fact that most of these races are 3D-grade repeaters (the Denebian/Lemurian/Mongoloid race being the noted exception) doesn't particularly help in terms of stimulating graduation/harvestability. These are too "stuck" in their orange and yellow considerations, to the point of severe blockage.

The whole evolution process is meaningles if all is just an illusion and after being born (many times) in 3d and all the strguggle and evolving through densities you are annihilated in "nirvana". It is as you haven't existed. It seems nihilistic.

This is because "you" haven't yet realized there is no "you", only Infinity.

And yes, it is nihilistic. But not in a butthurt-Nietzche sense (who perverted the true significance of this word the same way some Freud perverted the "ego"). It may be more eloquently articulated by the Latin saying:

Creatio ex Nihilo

"Creation from Nothing."

This No-Thing being, of course, Infinity itself: the Uncreated Creator resting in absolute potential only "periodically awakened" by Its own Willpower/Volition to Love/Focus, manifesting as Light, from which material the "Creation of Limits" is systematically articulated and the illusory foundation of separatedness laid out for "you" to, eventually, arise. And likewise, eventually, dissolve.

"You" were never that thing, after all.

"You" are No-Thing: immeasurable, unbound, absolute Oneness/Infinity.

[loostudent]

If all ends in the One Creator, then free will lies in deciding how will you travel. You can delay or you can stick to the narrow path. "Thus all entities learn, no matter what they seek. All learn the same, some rapidly, some slowly."

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't imagine that creation/separation is not real. I can't accept that Creator and creation is like Tom Hanks with a ball named Wilson in the movie Cast Away. It was relationship with that ball that kept him alive despite being illusory substitute until he returned back to society. Or the story of Narcissus having a crush on his own reflection in the water, or the suicidal lemmings, or the story of Sisyphus ...

If everything is illusion then everything falls - ethics, progress, perfection. I am a piece of nothing and you are a piece of nothing. Nothing matters and it doesn't matter what you do. Everything is the same - equaly piece of s*** (sorry).

All ends in mystery but I believe that creation is real and we can at least anticipate where it is going. There is entropy but everything is striving for preservation, closer connection, more unified relationship. Social complex --> smc --> one with all (includes relationship with things we now percieve as inanimate). I think this is what gaining in spiritual mass means. It seems the end is a plenum (we are back to the old paradox of plenum/void infinity). I imagine it (metaphoricaly) like a big heavenly family, integrathing everything (noone and nothing is expelled). Light is intensified with each next density. More the light, more wee see. So creation will appear richer, more varied, more full of life ...

[Stranger]

Except all this rests on a belief in there being actual time outside the illusion.
The beginning and end is both complete and just beginning a new.

This is why I find free will an issue. It's already done what ever you are going to do. You doing it may have depended on your belief in free will and choice do do so but from another place in time it had already happened. It was always going to happen.

Glow, everything happens instantaneously because there is no time, so you are correct that all that you will ever do as an entity has already been done by you. But it was done by you, as a choice made in every one of those moments.

To use a metaphor, if each moment of your existence as a soul is a single pixel on a giant screen - it was still you who chose the precise color of each pixel; to you it appeared to happen one pixel at a time; to God it seemed to happen instantly/timelessly - but it was still your free will that created the whole picture.

[Stranger]

loostudent, you are right - the Creation is what the Creator pours his "heart and soul" into, metaphorically speaking. The Creator is the Creation's beloved, but also vice versa: the Creation is the Creator's beloved. It is the Creator's principal activity, as far as we know. It's important.

I think it's also essential to distinguish between the meanings of illusion and hallucination.

A hallucination is a false perception of something that is not actually there, does not exist.

An illusion is a perception of something that exists - but in such a way that it appears to be something else.

Illusion best describes what we see around us. It has been meticulously and lovingly crafted to appear to be a self-contained world of multiplicity, where, as Quo says, what is ultimately real appears the least real, and vice versa. It's a marvel.

[Glow]

Except all this rests on a belief in there being actual time outside the illusion.
The beginning and end is both complete and just beginning a new.

This is why I find free will an issue. It's already done what ever you are going to do. You doing it may have depended on your belief in free will and choice do do so but from another place in time it had already happened. It was always going to happen.

Glow, everything happens instantaneously because there is no time, so you are correct that all that you will ever do as an entity has already been done by you.  But it was done by you, as a choice made in every one of those moments.  

To use a metaphor, if each moment of your existence as a soul is a single pixel on a giant screen - it was still you who chose the precise color of each pixel; to you it appeared to happen one pixel at a time; to God it seemed to happen instantly/timelessly - but it was still your free will that created the whole picture.

Exactly! And once you know this in your bones life gets so much better doesn't it! Whats to worry about? Everything is exactly as its meant to be, stop struggling, unless of course you are still supposed to be struggling, always a rabbit hole.

[loostudent]

An illusion is a perception of something that exists - but in such a way that it appears to be something else.

Illusion best describes what we see around us.  It has been meticulously and lovingly crafted to appear to be a self-contained world of multiplicity, where, as Quo says, what is ultimately real appears the least real, and vice versa.  It's a marvel.

"So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." (2 Cor)

[rva_jeremy]

There is no loss, only gain, where each step up the densities is a step up in awareness.

The whole evolution process is meaningles if all is just an illusion and after being born (many times) in 3d and all the strguggle and evolving through densities you are annihilated in "nirvana". It is as you haven't existed. It seems nihilistic.

It is a bit nihilistic to think of our lives, our personalities, what we care about, etc. as important only insofar as it advances the Creator's understanding of itself. I, too, struggle with the fact that most of my life has no inherent import but is simply instrumental towards ends I can barely fathom. There is certainly a built-in tension between the waking ego 3d personality and the more totalizing self, the Creator whom those of the Confederation see us as. It's tough to think that who we are in this world is not really who we are; that's the flip side to your characterization of soul evolution as annihilation in nirvana, since you can't lose something that isn't real in the first place.

I tend to think that a large part of our personalities and sense of self is a construct that we adopt and plan just like our life experiences, family, etc. We have been all things, I believe: the mean guy, the nice guy, the shy one, the flirt, the creep, etc. The roles we play in society are not who we are, and the personalities which allow us entry into these roles are much less us than we think (as if our social self or personality is really a vehicle, an interface our deeper selves use to tap into the social matrix). This prioritizes all the much more urgently this central task of finding out who we really are and what is real and intransient about us.

One thing I try to keep in mind is that this thoroughly impersonal cosmology is impersonal only to the extent that our personalities are illusory constructs. To the extent that we tap into our deeper selves and use polarization as a way to efficiently employ the personality self in lessons and service, it is highly personal--but it appeals to a different kind of personality than our waking third density personality.  We are real and we exist and we have a uniqueness to us, but the more we reject the illusion, the more we will be forced to confront that existence on metaphysical, emotional, unprovable terms.  This is what I think it means to "wake up"; not necessarily to consciously acknowledge the whole confederation cosmology, but to think and act more from your true self than from the bundle of habits, reactions, and beliefs that constitute our third density ego personality.

[Minyatur]

There is no loss, only gain, where each step up the densities is a step up in awareness.

The whole evolution process is meaningles if all is just an illusion and after being born (many times) in 3d and all the strguggle and evolving through densities you are annihilated in "nirvana". It is as you haven't existed. It seems nihilistic.

It is a bit nihilistic to think of our lives, our personalities, what we care about, etc. as important only insofar as it advances the Creator's understanding of itself. I, too, struggle with the fact that most of my life has no inherent import but is simply instrumental towards ends I can barely fathom. There is certainly a built-in tension between the waking ego 3d personality and the more totalizing self, the Creator whom those of the Confederation see us as. It's tough to think that who we are in this world is not really who we are; that's the flip side to your characterization of soul evolution as annihilation in nirvana, since you can't lose something that isn't real in the first place.

You'd rather and find less nihilistic that it was a paradox and absent of existence?

I don't think our lives are important only insofar they advance the Creator's understanding of itself. Your life simply reflects your own will and in this you gain understanding of yourself (Creator). The Creator only knows itself through experiencing its own will, so what you're saying is like that you find nihilistic that the only gain you find in experiencing your will is to realize yourself through doing so.

Whom have you been in any moment of this life that felt so strong you can even say it's what you've been across all this life? Maybe at 9 years old you went like "how I see myself at this moment is all I will ever be in time"?

I tend to think that a large part of our personalities and sense of self is a construct that we adopt and plan just like our life experiences, family, etc. We have been all things, I believe: the mean guy, the nice guy, the shy one, the flirt, the creep, etc. The roles we play in society are not who we are, and the personalities which allow us entry into these roles are much less us than we think (as if our social self or personality is really a vehicle, an interface our deeper selves use to tap into the social matrix). This prioritizes all the much more urgently this central task of finding out who we really are and what is real and intransient about us.

One thing I try to keep in mind is that this thoroughly impersonal cosmology is impersonal only to the extent that our personalities are illusory constructs. To the extent that we tap into our deeper selves and use polarization as a way to efficiently employ the personality self in lessons and service, it is highly personal--but it appeals to a different kind of personality than our waking third density personality.  We are real and we exist and we have a uniqueness to us, but the more we reject the illusion, the more we will be forced to confront that existence on metaphysical, emotional, unprovable terms.  This is what I think it means to "wake up"; not necessarily to consciously acknowledge the whole confederation cosmology, but to think and act more from your true self than from the bundle of habits, reactions, and beliefs that constitute our third density ego personality.

I think the entire concept of having 3D veiled is to offer an extension of free will to our 3D personalities. Here and now in this world, the cosmology is extremely personal to your waking 3D personality more than would be the default of this density without the usage of a veil, because your 3D waking personality would be stuck to be confronted by the awareness of in what it is rooted in and everything you are would be much more blended together at all times disallowing a more personal expression from moments to moments. This is even the usefulness of wandering and advancing your higher density progression, there's many aspects of yourself that are held quiet by your too great awareness of unity and the Universe, just as merely all the aspects of yourself being known, and these aspects are so much denied their expression when blended that you have to go into a 3D veiled experience to gain a strong enough focus on them that they even find actual expression and resolve.

I don't think there's any single thing in your life that was not what you are. Maybe it was not the whole of yourself in every single way you can be shaped through all potentials of living, obviously, but it clearly partially was what you are whole into a finite focus.

[AnthroHeart]

I think we all had some part in creating the veil.

[Minyatur]

I think we all had some part in creating the veil.

While this is so, I think it is much more than just the veil. As a relative-focus (individualization), you even had part in shaping everything that was, and is and will ever be, because this is what interconnection is.

[Minyatur]

What is Logos completion? What happens to Logos? Is this:
a) the ultimate death of each entity of this octave,

If you equate it with the birth of each entity of this octave, not that anything is so much native to it than it knows crossing through it.

b) some kind of resting state in unity or

If you see this way passive-activity.

c) does the journey continue?

If you see this way active-passivity.

---

Completion is just a point of view, it does not deny the rest of the point of views and instead holds them in what they are. The Logoic completion is literally every moment and individualization of themselves joining in unity and knowing love as alike white light, but this white light is composed of everything that can be felt in finite focuses of aspects of what makes love. It's all emotions you can have in synergy, all this in parallel to their separate sense of intelligent expression.

Completion is just the point where the circle of free will is complete and all things are accepted to birth and be birthed from within and without the idea of them. It's where all things touch, the Source.

[AnthroHeart]

What is Logos completion? What happens to Logos? Is this:
a) the ultimate death of each entity of this octave,

If you equate it with the birth of each entity of this octave, not that anything is so much native to it than it knows crossing through it.

I once had the experience of climbing the densities to 8th, and kept trying to keep balanced. It was more a metaphorical experience.
At the top of a narrow mindset, I tried to look into the next Octave and was blocked by a shield of light as I can best describe it.
Then I looked into what I felt was the previous Octave. The feeling is hard to describe. It seemed like particles moving around slowly.
The thing felt like when you exhale deeply. There was this feeling of emptiness.

Ra said the previous Octave was mover and moved. I just got the sense that things were moving, albeit more slowly and with purpose it seemed.
But they were no more profound than particles it seemed. Like white particles in darkness. Particles the size of billiard balls it seemed.

I couldn't stay there long though because of keeping balanced.

But that was sort of a mental exercise. But seemed very real.

This song gives me the same emotion as what I felt in the previous Octave experience.

[AnthroHeart]

I think we all had some part in creating the veil.

While this is so, I think it is much more than just the veil. As a relative-focus (individualization), you even had part in shaping everything that was, and is and will ever be, because this is what interconnection is.

Through this interconnectedness I saw an image of Creator creating a new One Original Thought.
Maybe Creator does that for each Octave.

[anagogy]

"Each entity is only superficially that which blooms and dies. In the deeper sense there is no end to beingness."

"The seventh-density being, the completed being, the Creator who knows Itself, accumulates mass and compacts into the One Creator once again."

"This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion." (Ra)

What is Logos completion? What happens to Logos? Is this:
a) the ultimate death of each entity of this octave,
b) some kind of resting state in unity or
c) does the journey continue?

[I may not have completely read every post in the thread, if I repeated something someone else said, my apologies]

Well, we know that there are "refinements" on the One Original Thought from octave to octave.

We also know that there are mysterious travelers from the island of the previous octave and the octave to be. The beings from the "future" octave apparently come to assist our Logos in its "Logos completion".

Speaking from what has been imparted to me, my understanding is that awareness is eternal. The Light of Spirit can be nigh infinitely distorted (which results in the phenomenon we call "matter", but it cannot be snuffed out or annihilated. As in all distortions, the source is the limit of the viewpoint. So distortion is the limiting of viewpoint. This is the distortion of the Light of Spirit.

Logos completion, to my limited understanding, is having totally passed through, as thoroughly as is possible in the given constructed illusion (which I prefer to call the "Grand Pyramidal Prism", the seven rays of being (the types of identification one may have in infinity).

In each octave the Prism, or Archetypal Pyramid, is created. And the white light of creator is poured through it and the seven densities are manifested, and then refined into the structure, or classroom, that most efficaciously facilitates the pure experience of each one of those types of identification.

When all consciousness complexes have been through the school, the Great Central Sun is formed again (which is Logos completion), and this 7D Logos rises into the unpotentiated plenum of 8D, to construct another Grand Prism, to pour the Light through. This 7D Logos is not completely dissolved into the 8D plenum of all potentiality. As stated before, some refinements are kept, if they enhanced the experience of one or more of the aforementioned rays of identification.

Rather, the Logos is bathed, rinsed, chills out for a few eternities (this is not terribly unlike our process of harvest when our indigo bodies are transferred into violet ray to appraise our readiness for harvest), and steps back out of the "Father/Mother 8D aspect", to create some more, because infinite potential is always eventually called to create some more. So 8D choice-less freedom awareness (a strange but true statement) naturally, inevitably we might say, reaches for the kinetic aspect: the Logos manifestation. The Chooser.  

Why does a painter paint?

No individuals are forced to give up their identities, but are trapped within a given illusion, or classroom, until they make the choice to be reformed into a new kind of identification (the next density). As you can imagine, 3rd grade might get boring after a few thousand years, though it might become very familiar and comfortable. Rather than a given personality being annihilated, they are simply expanded away from. Like taking off a pair of clothes, and putting on a new pair of clothes. The clothes still exist, you just aren't wearing them. I don't know if the "old clothes" still exist across the boundary of the octave. I suppose in some sense they must, since travel between octaves is apparently possible, given Ra's statements about the travelers.

But then, are we upset that we aren't still playing with our kids toys? I still have many of my childhood toys, in a box in a closet somewhere, though there is little desire to play with them. I still look at them with fondness however. In another incarnation, I may well enjoy playing with similar toys again.

"Why then be concerned with the grass that blooms, withers and dies in its season only to grow once again due to the infinite love and light of the One Creator? This is the message we bring. Each entity is only superficially that which blooms and dies. In the deeper sense there is no end to beingness."  

[hounsic]

Like taking off a pair of clothes, and putting on a new pair of clothes. The clothes still exist, you just aren't wearing them. I don't know if the "old clothes" still exist across the boundary of the octave.



Could this be similar to when i go and visit family i see only once a year ----- i tend to fall back into my old personality from 20 years ago.

[rva_jeremy]

It is a bit nihilistic to think of our lives, our personalities, what we care about, etc. as important only insofar as it advances the Creator's understanding of itself. I, too, struggle with the fact that most of my life has no inherent import but is simply instrumental towards ends I can barely fathom. There is certainly a built-in tension between the waking ego 3d personality and the more totalizing self, the Creator whom those of the Confederation see us as. It's tough to think that who we are in this world is not really who we are; that's the flip side to your characterization of soul evolution as annihilation in nirvana, since you can't lose something that isn't real in the first place.

You'd rather and find less nihilistic that it was a paradox and absent of existence?

It's a paradox, so it is uniquely unsatisfying to the third density intellect. From either your vantage point or mine, it's still unfathomable and cannot be resolved, and therefore it will constitute a tension in one's experience.

I don't think our lives are important only insofar they advance the Creator's understanding of itself. Your life simply reflects your own will and in this you gain understanding of yourself (Creator). The Creator only knows itself through experiencing its own will, so what you're saying is like that you find nihilistic that the only gain you find in experiencing your will is to realize yourself through doing so.

I find it a bit nihilistic that we inhabit ego personalities that are impossible to satisfy. They're often all we know, and the spiritual paths largely encourage their renunciation and abnegation. This is all to underline that the point of spiritual evolution is not a person's happiness.  The ego seems designed to facilitate a drama of attachment. It's nihilistic to me to declare that the self most of us know ourselves as is merely an instrument and that its satisfaction, its enjoyment is not paramount. I'm not saying there's no happiness or enjoyment in third density; only that there often is not and this seems to be a big element of its essential character.

All of that is to interpret the consequences of the thesis for which you're advocating: that we are instruments of the Creator by which It better knows Itself.  It just does seem like the negative spectrum constitutes a lot of the field research the Creator is engaged in in third density, wouldn't you say?  If we were only limited, separate personality egos, the harshness of life might lead one to conclude that there's no essential meaning. I'm suggesting the opposite conclusion: that it is only in an expanded sense of identity that the ego, one's own waking personality, can be appreciated as a tool for learning lessons. From the ego's point of view, it seems awful cruel and arbitrary, and that is sort of a common tenet of most nihilist's outlooks.

I think the entire concept of having 3D veiled is to offer an extension of free will to our 3D personalities. Here and now in this world, the cosmology is extremely personal to your waking 3D personality more than would be the default of this density without the usage of a veil, because your 3D waking personality would be stuck to be confronted by the awareness of in what it is rooted in and everything you are would be much more blended together at all times disallowing a more personal expression from moments to moments. This is even the usefulness of wandering and advancing your higher density progression, there's many aspects of yourself that are held quiet by your too great awareness of unity and the Universe, just as merely all the aspects of yourself being known, and these aspects are so much denied their expression when blended that you have to go into a 3D veiled experience to gain a strong enough focus on them that they even find actual expression and resolve.

Totally agree, and I think you put it rather well. The veil has utility in what it produces in the total entity. That doesn't mean the portion that is incarnate can appreciate it on its own terms. This is what I mean by instrumentality: perhaps the third density ego is a kind of epiphenomenon of spiritual evolution, a construct that arises at a certain level of awareness to teach lessons. What this means to me is that this plan owes no allegiance to the third density ego, which will be the instrument through which the entity may suffer and despair greatly. To put it succinctly: the ego is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

I don't think there's any single thing in your life that was not what you are. Maybe it was not the whole of yourself in every single way you can be shaped through all potentials of living, obviously, but it clearly partially was what you are whole into a finite focus.

Right there with you. I think we're taking two different perspectives on the same thing. The point is that the third density self, the self that is attuned to the illusion, is transient to the extent it is invested in its own separateness from others.  That self demands to be defended against, and held apart from, anything that threatens it as the primary focus of attention. So to lose this, to sacrifice it, is not to sacrifice anything of value, as Ra said, but instead to manifest an understanding that expanding one's identity need not incur any loss of identity except insofar as one is entangled in worldly attachments of various kinds.

[Sacred Fool]

The whole evolution process is meaningles if all is just an illusion and after being born (many times) in 3d and all the struggle and evolving through densities you are annihilated in "nirvana". It is as you haven't existed. It seems nihilistic.

First, you might consider that to take seriously the consequences of what happens in 7d is like a 1st grader worrying about his exams in graduate school.  Maybe you should focus more on the situation closer to home?

Otherwise, it might take some of the pressure off to think of it all as an artistic endeavor which is continually refined, yet never completely accomplished.  Each time a great singer sings a song it is a new refinement based upon the previous times it was sung and upon other experience gained in the interim time.  A sculptor or painter may revisit a theme again and again throughout her lifetime, each time refining her touch.  Each theme visited and refined in 3d comes around again in the succeeding densities and is further refined.  The descriptions of 7d & 8d can be viewed as interpretations of refinement of consciousness and being so intense as to be indescribable to the 3d denizen.

The point is that the third density self, the self that is attuned to the illusion, is transient to the extent it is invested in its own separateness from others.  That self demands to be defended against, and held apart from, anything that threatens it as the primary focus of attention. So to lose this, to sacrifice it, is not to sacrifice anything of value, as Ra said, but instead to manifest an understanding that expanding one's identity need not incur any loss of identity except insofar as one is entangled in worldly attachments of various kinds.

Can we refine the first line to say that in 3d as experienced mainly in chakras 1, 2 & 3, the self experiences itself as separate? 

To experience life here and now including the higher energy centers does not necessarily entail a sacrificing of worldly attachments, as you call them.  I rather like Ra's analogy of the flute whereby one is eventually free to sound each or any note (of the seven chakras) as may be required by the given circumstances.  Thereby one can express separateness or oneness as an authentic experience of self as one pleases in a given situation.  (Hard to do that in the higher densities, I would imagine.)

 

[Minyatur]

It is a bit nihilistic to think of our lives, our personalities, what we care about, etc. as important only insofar as it advances the Creator's understanding of itself. I, too, struggle with the fact that most of my life has no inherent import but is simply instrumental towards ends I can barely fathom. There is certainly a built-in tension between the waking ego 3d personality and the more totalizing self, the Creator whom those of the Confederation see us as. It's tough to think that who we are in this world is not really who we are; that's the flip side to your characterization of soul evolution as annihilation in nirvana, since you can't lose something that isn't real in the first place.

You'd rather and find less nihilistic that it was a paradox and absent of existence?

It's a paradox, so it is uniquely unsatisfying to the third density intellect. From either your vantage point or mine, it's still unfathomable and cannot be resolved, and therefore it will constitute a tension in one's experience.

Well understanding is the paradox somewhat, truth is not understanding of truth but itself. I think the end of all paradoxes lie in letting go, which I guess is the initial aspect that was disliked in the thread in regard to completion.

Also, I don't think the third density intellect cannot grasp it, I think it just needs to do so in silence and sincere openness to what it is. So the 3D being has all tools to connect to truth, and that's why we see countless use dual-thoughts to voice the wordless in an attempt to paint it.

I don't think our lives are important only insofar they advance the Creator's understanding of itself. Your life simply reflects your own will and in this you gain understanding of yourself (Creator). The Creator only knows itself through experiencing its own will, so what you're saying is like that you find nihilistic that the only gain you find in experiencing your will is to realize yourself through doing so.

I find it a bit nihilistic that we inhabit ego personalities that are impossible to satisfy. They're often all we know, and the spiritual paths largely encourage their renunciation and abnegation. This is all to underline that the point of spiritual evolution is not a person's happiness.  The ego seems designed to facilitate a drama of attachment. It's nihilistic to me to declare that the self most of us know ourselves as is merely an instrument and that its satisfaction, its enjoyment is not paramount. I'm not saying there's no happiness or enjoyment in third density; only that there often is not and this seems to be a big element of its essential character.

I think the only point in which the Creator finds satisfaction is in completion, so this impossible to satisfy is not as much of 3D as it is what drives infinity whole.

You could've just been a void, but love and intelligence implied to seek more.

All of that is to interpret the consequences of the thesis for which you're advocating: that we are instruments of the Creator by which It better knows Itself.  It just does seem like the negative spectrum constitutes a lot of the field research the Creator is engaged in in third density, wouldn't you say?  If we were only limited, separate personality egos, the harshness of life might lead one to conclude that there's no essential meaning. I'm suggesting the opposite conclusion: that it is only in an expanded sense of identity that the ego, one's own waking personality, can be appreciated as a tool for learning lessons. From the ego's point of view, it seems awful cruel and arbitrary, and that is sort of a common tenet of most nihilist's outlooks.

I think things get awful and arbitrary based on how deeply you contain polarized contradictions. I think if everyone had all their thought and associated power of emotion mapped in time, they'd see events of their life as making a whole lot more sense under this analysis. But who will remember how deeply they cursed themselves and wished themselves misery when it comes? Who will remember that they deeply desired to become something when catalyst come to help to transform what blocks them from it?

But I get your point that no 3D being is just a single lifetime's being because they were born from get go as already more than that. Can be hard to face and accept what we contain as also the self.

I think the entire concept of having 3D veiled is to offer an extension of free will to our 3D personalities. Here and now in this world, the cosmology is extremely personal to your waking 3D personality more than would be the default of this density without the usage of a veil, because your 3D waking personality would be stuck to be confronted by the awareness of in what it is rooted in and everything you are would be much more blended together at all times disallowing a more personal expression from moments to moments. This is even the usefulness of wandering and advancing your higher density progression, there's many aspects of yourself that are held quiet by your too great awareness of unity and the Universe, just as merely all the aspects of yourself being known, and these aspects are so much denied their expression when blended that you have to go into a 3D veiled experience to gain a strong enough focus on them that they even find actual expression and resolve.

Totally agree, and I think you put it rather well. The veil has utility in what it produces in the total entity. That doesn't mean the portion that is incarnate can appreciate it on its own terms. This is what I mean by instrumentality: perhaps the third density ego is a kind of epiphenomenon of spiritual evolution, a construct that arises at a certain level of awareness to teach lessons. What this means to me is that this plan owes no allegiance to the third density ego, which will be the instrument through which the entity may suffer and despair greatly.

How do you define the ego, the potential to be a sense of identity or the one it has been?

To put it succinctly: the ego is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

What I find very amusing here is how it totally contrasts my own seeking and experiences. I found within myself the ego to be so very deeply cherished, and I also found that each step of the path is the sole actual end.

Completion is little more than all steps finding harmony together to be each their own thing, in this the Universe is equally a mean to that you have your moment of now, as that your moment of now is a mean to its ending. They're one beingness.

I don't think there's any single thing in your life that was not what you are. Maybe it was not the whole of yourself in every single way you can be shaped through all potentials of living, obviously, but it clearly partially was what you are whole into a finite focus.

Right there with you. I think we're taking two different perspectives on the same thing. The point is that the third density self, the self that is attuned to the illusion, is transient to the extent it is invested in its own separateness from others.  That self demands to be defended against, and held apart from, anything that threatens it as the primary focus of attention. So to lose this, to sacrifice it, is not to sacrifice anything of value, as Ra said, but instead to manifest an understanding that expanding one's identity need not incur any loss of identity except insofar as one is entangled in worldly attachments of various kinds.

The thing here is that loss is the ability to be open to more, and it needs to be self driven. It's liberating your potential, why forever remain traumas of particular events? Seems natural that lessons drive you to realize you are not just that.

I think the main issue across everything written, is more like the innate 3D personality's lack of sincerity with itself. Or perhaps the harshness of attaining it.