Homosexual sexual energy transfer?

[Nau7ik]

Is it possible? This is a question I've had ever since first reading the Law of One. I was disappointed to think that because I'm gay that I can't experience sexual energy transfers.

Ra says,

31.10 Questioner: Roughly how many previous incarnations, shall we say, would a male entity in this incarnation have had to have had in the past as a female to have a highly homosexual orientation in this incarnation? Just roughly.
Ra: I am Ra. If an entity has had roughly 65% of its incarnations in the sexual/biological body complex, the opposite polarity to its present body complex, this entity is vulnerable to the aura infringement of your urban areas and may perhaps become of what you call an homosexual nature.

It is to be noted at this juncture that although it is much more difficult, it is possible in this type of association for an entity to be of great service to another in fidelity and sincere green-ray love of a nonsexual nature thus adjusting or lessening the distortions of its sexual impairment.

So I take it that only green ray sexual energy transfers are possible for those in a homosexual mated relationship. But Ra says "nonsexual nature"...

Usually in a homosexual relationship, one takes on the active masculine role, that reaches, and the other takes on the feminine passive role, that which awaits the reaching.

Jim McCarty was asked about this in an interview, which is contained in Tilting at Windmills by Gary Bean in Appendix A:

What role does gender or biological sex play? And, in your opinion, can spiritual seekers of the same gender/sex experience the same energy ex- change and reach the same potentials?

That’s a really good question. Hypothetically I think that it would be possible for the same-sex entities to achieve sexual energy transfers if one of them identified with masculine energy and the other one identified with feminine energy. There would still have to be a sexual polarity for there to be an exchange of sexual energies.

From my personal experience as a gay man, I recall one experience with a partner who I cared a great deal for. The asbolute best sex I've ever had was with him. We achieved orgasm at the same time and the energy was palpable. You know what I'm talking about if you've ever had orgasm at the same time with your partner. We both felt it and it was beautiful and joyful. This is not an experience I've had with other men though.

What do you think? Is it possible for sexual energy exchange between two same-sex entities? I hope I'm posting this in the right section.

[rva_jeremy]

I absolutely think it's possible due to the fact that what we're talking about is an energetic phenomenon and not simply a bodily phenomenon. But I will warn you that there are many in our community who, at the very least, think it's impossible for same sex couples to achieve the degree of transfer that opposite sex couples do, and that perfect, magical transfers are unlikely or impossible in a homosexual context. While I think this might be true, the bottom line is that precious, precious few of any of us have perfect transfers, no matter with whom we're coupling! So I think it's more about dealing with your situation as it is, less about conforming to some ideal sexual template. But, as I said, opinions vary here.

[smc]

-removed-

[smc]

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[Jeremy]

[quote='smc' pid='229765' dateline='1499786789']
[size=medium]hey - after re-read - to make it clear - I don't mean that Ra as an SMC is ignorant about human sexuality - or gives wrong information - I mean that to conclude conforming to 'heterosexuality' is the one and correct way - a supposed truth - is actually shown to be a questionable idea when you remember that the whole context it's being discussed in

- is one of 'otherness' 'alien-ness' etc

and the very existence of 'Ra' is the actual PROOF !

if we can acknowledge an SMC - we can acknowledge same sex alchemy/energy transfer !! right???

and btw: straights DON'T get to say if it's possible or not - because they ain't qualified to determine that !!

I'm not questioning the validity of whether the homosexual union can achieve the same level of fusion as I'm sure it's possible but what piques my interest when this topic comes up is that everyone is so quick to condemn Ra or make excuses as to the invalid nature of the response which i find odd considering there isn't another topic that I know of that's outright labelled as wrong. 
It has a hint of internal biases or struggles and even catalyst involved for those affected by the comments. 
The entire material could be considered socially unacceptable and so out there, that many of the comments by Ra could have had huge social implications so to single out this particular subject is a bit odd. 

You also stated that Ra is beyond the idea of genders which is true. They look from a viewpoint beyond ours yet still made concise points regarding this. Why would they outright lie to appease a potential bias by Don? 

If it was due to some sort of bias stemming from don, why wouldn't Ra simply state the law of confusion or ot potentially violating their free will as they did in so many other questions? They refused to answer many questions so why not this one? 

Why is this one subject considered questionable yet the rest of the material not? 

[smc]

I don't say they "outright lie".....

I don't say the response is "invalid".....

I don't "outright label as wrong"...

I don't find their reply "questionable" either....

I give context/interpretation/impressions of it

[Jeremy]

Could it be possibly that Ra wanted to invoke the law of confusion so that not only Don but those who were of the homosexual nature could find out for themselves that they are indeed not what Ra had claimed? I could possibly see that as a reason

[rva_jeremy]

I think it's important to distinguish social norms from spiritual principles. None of us achieve our highest potential as humans, and yet we are still all worthy of dignity and respect. Similarly, vanishingly few couples, homosexual, heterosexual, or otherwise, achieve optimal energy transfer in the act of sex. That has nothing to do with the validity of those experiences in and of themselves. So to me it seems like if we're going to talk about ideals of spiritual energy, it's important to depersonalize it and depoliticize it.

Those of Ra describe homosexuality as a "sexual impairment". I have heard it argued that this impairment lies in the two bodies' incapacity for a perfect, ideal, maximal sexual energy transfer. That has nothing to do with the justice or dignity of the coupling. It likewise doesn't mean that heterosexual couples necessarily achieve maximal transfer simply by virtue of being of opposite sexes. It is merely an acknowledgement that anatomy is a factor among many in sex, and that when it is lacking it inhibits the full potential of energy exchange from being realized.

To me it's not an important issue how to achieve perfect sexual exchange in the first place; we're all muddling through this. But I think it is interesting to contemplate the body's role, especially in light of Ra's comments about "impairment", which at first seem sort of pejorative.

[Jeremy]

Trust me, I'm hoping that it's not true. I'm beginning to grasp empathy so I would feel horrible for those affected if it were true. I couldn't imagine what it would feel like. But I just find it odd that they would say something so contradictory but I guess that's a law of confusion.

[Jeremy]

This would be an excellent question for Q'uo since they operate more from the heart since Latwii is involved

[rva_jeremy]

I really don't think it's that big of a deal either way. Everybody can transfer energy sexually to anybody else. Everybody can love and serve anybody else. Just about none of us do any of it to our fullest potential. That imperfection is part of the experience of being embodied in phenomenal reality. The limitations track precisely with the advantages.

Just to be clear, I see the specific question here as: what role does the body's sexual polarity play in the exchange of sexual energy? Since those of Ra never really went into detail about the specifics of intercourse, and I find it hard to believe that Q'uo would, I'm not sure this is something we'll ever get a definitive Law of One answer on.

[Glow]

I think SMC is pretty right on. In the time of Ra contact women were very much in denial of their masculine energy and men were very much in denial of their feminine energy. It was in the dark, the polarity of the sexes of each soul was very one sided, we sought separateness through the sexual identity so you would need an equally imbalance being of the other sex/ polarity to enlighten, or balance each others energy.

As we evolve and we become more excepting of all our energy masculine/feminine positive/negative and move away from either edge to balance it makes logical sense you would no longer need entities on the edge of their energetic polarity to find balance but two who simply balance each others imbalances.

Also I think its obvious the "sexual impairment" is the lack of ability to procreate. If Ra at the time had said love is love or made light of the taboo of the time it would have been infringement because there was lots of heavy catalyst to work through by the entire population over homosexual coupling.

[Diana]

I will begin with: I think all things are possible. 

What I want to add to this conversation are two things:

1. If you were teaching a kindergarten class, how difficult would it be to impart complex philosophical ideas? We, here in veiled 3D, have this relationship with Ra. There are things beyond our intellects because of simply being human. We can't imagine I don't think, how difficult it was for Ra as a teacher imparting this high level, and complex beyond human understanding, knowledge. So to limit ourselves would mot be a good direction to go in, and I daresay Ra would agree with that. 

2. As SMC pointed out, we must bear in mind that no channeling is perfect due to the humans it must filter through. I think the Ra material is of the purest and highest, as the 3 involved took very careful care to prepare on every level they knew of for, and they were as accountable and responsible as they knew how to be. Even so, all 3 have (had) their own distortions. Ra seemed to tread very carefully when approaching subject matter which could potentially affect those distortions. The classic example, and one canvassed many times here, is Ra's advice to Carla as to what to eat for her health, which would include more than a physiological aspect.

So, the bottom line for me is: Don't follow anything with dogmatic beliefs as no information could be perfect and dogma creates stagnation. If you believe, you close the doors on new information coming in. And, consider that anything is possible. Inherent in this idea would be that since all things are possible, one thing isn't more possible than another but for our limited thinking and beliefs. This aligns with the wave/particle duality. Particle: collapsed into one outcome (beliefs); wave: all outcomes possible.

[Diana]

In the time of Ra contact women were very much in denial of their masculine energy and men were very much in denial of their feminine energy.

This isn't true. In the late 80's, the general mindset as far as I could ascertain was one of outward unlimited expression and acceptance. This is the time many gay men "came out." It was fashionable to dress in a wild way crossing gender boundaries (which was so much fun). I looked at a video some time ago of Van Halen in the 80's and they all looked and were acting the opposite of masculine (not sure how else to put that without potentially and unintentionally offending someone). It made me sad when I saw it, because the world then seemed to be going in the direction of acceptance and embracing diversity. In the 90's, things seemed to close up due to attempts to control the masses. Now, the sheer number of Christians in this country (US) tells me things are not as openminded as they were in many respects.

Of course, beside this is another layer, because evolution will out. So while the consciousness of embracing all expressions has been limited by societal and controlling influences, there is still a forward thrust toward freedom (free will). The dynamics are just different.

[Infinite]

Well, it's not preconception or judgment. But this question is very clear. Sexual energy transference is about energy polarity. In a dualistic universe all things are "divided" and "fight" to back to unity. The sex is one of these process. To try to transfer sexual energy between two equal poles is like try use a pile with one only pole. But, everything is possible and in an infinity universe all possiblities exist. My point is about the "default nature" of sexual energy transmission .

And I always read here that Ra was wrong about homossexualism but the informations are the same of occultism/esoterism, etc. Ra would never go lie because Law of Confusion. It's just a question of accept the reality of this. I'm sorry if my words sound aggressive.

[Glow]

Wasnt true.... for you, for wanderers, for the artistic community.. but for most even now people outside the more open minded communities are in denial, as in activily deny having a masculine side if a woman and a feminine side if male. Things have been changing but it isn't like a switch was flicked.

[Cyclops]

Questioner: What is the function of homosexuality?

It is a difficulty of your language that we have trouble overcoming in that homosexuality is not understood as a type of sexuality, but is considered to be, in your language, a type of emotionally strong word.

The function of sexuality is to teach service. One is drawn to another of your species and forms a relationship and in that relationship, there are opportunities for service, or disservice, and gradually, as the spirit grows through this association, you begin to learn how to be of service. Were it not for the drive of sexuality, it is likely that there would not be these intense relationships, and therefore these strong stimulants or catalysts to learning. Those who are homosexual have had a personality difficulty which drives then in a sexual way towards their own charge, much like a positive charge being attracted to a positive charge. This is due to confusion between incarnations, the previous incarnation being of one sex, this incarnation being of another. But the function of homosexuality is the function of any type of sexuality: it is to enable a person to form an intense enough relationship that he may learn how to serve and how to love; to love others more than himself, or shall we say, to love others more than his personality, but as much as the Creator.

I don't know anything about electrical fields, or charges but I googled it, same charges repel each other, maybe sexual energy transfers aren't actually available when the basic birth body complex is considered, regardless of the being enspirited in the body complex or it's chosen gender/identity. However if its true it could be an advantage, the end result/goal being said to be exactly the same and that extra catalyst could be in play. More questions than answers really.

[YinYang]

The classic example, and one canvassed many times here, is Ra's advice to Carla as to what to eat for her health

I don't agree with you on this, Diana. Don asked a very simple and straight-forward question, and Ra gave a very simple and straight-forward answer. Naturally any vegan won't love the answer Ra gave, but alas, there it is, in black and white. I agree that the Ra material shouldn't be taken as gospel, but you can't take something that straight-forward and say "people interpret it erroneously", simply because it contradicts the vegan point of view.

I'm sorry, I don't really want to open a can of worms again on the meat eating business... but this just bugs me. I'm happy with someone saying "I'm vegan because of compassionate reasons", and I feel the same as you, I also lost my appetite for red meat after watching factory farming videos, but I won't attempt to "reinterpret" Ra's words to complement my own sentiments on the matter. It's a personal thing for me, for which I don't require external validation.

[Jeremy]

Questioner: What is the function of homosexuality?

It is a difficulty of your language that we have trouble overcoming in that homosexuality is not understood as a type of sexuality, but is considered to be, in your language, a type of emotionally strong word.

The function of sexuality is to teach service. One is drawn to another of your species and forms a relationship and in that relationship, there are opportunities for service, or disservice, and gradually, as the spirit grows through this association, you begin to learn how to be of service. Were it not for the drive of sexuality, it is likely that there would not be these intense relationships, and therefore these strong stimulants or catalysts to learning. Those who are homosexual have had a personality difficulty which drives then in a sexual way towards their own charge, much like a positive charge being attracted to a positive charge. This is due to confusion between incarnations, the previous incarnation being of one sex, this incarnation being of another. But the function of homosexuality is the function of any type of sexuality: it is to enable a person to form an intense enough relationship that he may learn how to serve and how to love; to love others more than himself, or shall we say, to love others more than his personality, but as much as the Creator.

I don't know anything about electrical fields, or charges but I googled it, same charges repel each other, maybe sexual energy transfers aren't actually available when the basic birth body complex is considered, regardless of the being enspirited in the body complex or it's chosen gender/identity. However if its true it could be an advantage, the end result/goal being said to be exactly the same and that extra catalyst could be in play. More questions than answers really.

Yea I think if this statement by Ra actually is true, it's only true while incarnated. I'm led to think that maybe those who incarnate with preincarnative plans to be attracted to the same sex, do so so that they can work upon a specific set of catalysts that one can't experience otherwise. 

Please know I'm simply being devil's advocate here and going off of what Ra stated. 

So if this is all true, I would actually think it may be some sort of gift or blessing so that the one who experiences the incarnation can work upon lessons no other self which is attracted to the opposite sex woukd experience. I'd even go so far into wondering if it allows one to polarize that much more and faster. 

[rva_jeremy]

Also I think its obvious the "sexual impairment" is the lack of ability to procreate.

Maybe… but Ra discusses the energetic aspects of sex much more than the reproductive ones. I always considered the impairment to be the lack of attraction to the opposite sex that would create the polarized condition necessary for transfer. I mean, it's not a physical impairment--a homosexual otherself has the capacity to procreate with the opposite sex. What he or she lacks is the attraction that energizes the exchange.

[YinYang]

I don't have the answers on this, just wanted to share this:

Ra: I am Ra. The entire creation is of the One Creator. Thus the division of sexual activity into simply that of the bodily complex is an artificial division, all things thusly being seen as sexual equally, the mind, the body, and the spirit; all of which are part of the polarity of the entity. Thus sexual fusion may be seen with or without what you may call sexual intercourse to be the complete melding of the mind, the body, and the spirit in what feels to be a constant orgasm, shall we say, of joy and delight each in the other’s beingness.

[Diana]

I don't agree with you on this, Diana. Don asked a very simple and straight-forward question, and Ra gave a very simple and straight-forward answer. Naturally any vegan won't love the answer Ra gave, but alas, there it is, in black and white. I agree that the Ra material shouldn't be taken as gospel, but you can't take something that straight-forward and say "people interpret it erroneously", simply because it contradicts the vegan point of view.

I'm sorry, I don't really want to open a can of worms again on the meat eating business... but this just bugs me. I'm happy with someone saying "I'm vegan because of compassionate reasons", and I feel the same as you, I also lost my appetite for red meat after watching factory farming videos, but I won't attempt to "reinterpret" Ra's words to complement my own sentiments on the matter. It's a personal thing for me, for which I don't require external validation.

The above bolded is not what I'm doing.

I'm not trying to justify some agenda I have. I also need no validation. Neither do I have a need to make anyone agree with me.

Please refrain from pointing fingers at someone you obviously know nothing about, and blaming them for words and intentions they don't have.

Judgmental statements like the above make me want to leave this forum, as many before me have done for similar reasons.

Not to mention I think you are wrong. But that's another conversation, and one that was canvassed extensively already. I think it goes without saying, at least if any logic is applied, that channeled material must be influenced by the channel. And the concerns and motives of Ra, may not always be as straightforward as you seem to think.

[Jeremy]

Pretty sure trance channeling has no influence coming from the channel as they took full control of Carla's faculties and motor functions

[Stranger]

We're both male and female. Jung recognized that we all have both animus and anima in our psyche. I recall seeing something from Quo saying that we are both male and female. I don't know why, but I am absolutely certain that there is still an energy transfer, regardless of physical gender.

[Glow]

It's funny how much the dogma can burry the actual message. We are all one. There is no polarity it is an illusion. The walls of your home are as much you as the birds and your neighbor.

The separation is the darkness of the veil, our oneness is constant and the truth so while we will never while incarnated have a full understanding, limiting our capacity to perform any energy transfer with ourselves or each otherselves is just further veiling and illusion.
At the base of it all we are one ball of energy moving about telling itself a storey acting out parts.

[unity100]

Energy exchange in between anything is possible. Ultimately, entire existence is a constant chain of energy transfers.

However as mentioned, exchange in between two sexes of the same kind would be hampered at the physical level to a great extent due to the physical bodies being of the same sex.

Is it not possible to achieve a high-frequency energy exchange in between the two sexes?

Surely it could happen, under specific circumstances - the potential in between two people and the compatibility of their potential energy difference could be great enough to overcome the impediment same sex bodies would bring.

However for this to happen, there would need to be potential difference and compatibility strong enough to effect that.

Its quite unlikely in daily life that this would occur, and when it occurs it would be rare and be the product of extra ordinary circumstances.

Otherwise there wouldnt be any worry regarding same sex bodies' energy exchange.

Exchange in between people inhabiting same sex bodies therefore, would have bigger difficulty in manifesting increasingly higher frequencies, having a tendency to stay in non-adept energy levels.

Polarization is possible through practice of love and understanding as Ra explains, however it requires more effort.

[AnthroHeart]

I don't know if there are genders in the afterlife, or in time/space, but I imagine doing sexual energy exchange with my guide who I imagine to be a male anthro. Though we probably don't have any specific form either.

[smc]

2. As SMC pointed out, we must bear in mind that no channeling is perfect due to the humans it must filter through.

no... I wasn't saying this at all

I think the Ra material is of the purest and highest, as the 3 involved took very careful care to prepare on every level they knew of for, and they were as accountable and responsible as they knew how to be.

I agree with this - but they did this to ensure quality/veracity - not content. Content (in the reply) was always determined by Ra. (Actually Ra also helped monitor/ensure quality/veracity.)

Even so, all 3 have (had) their own distortions.

which determined the type, tone and content of their questions to Ra - but did not distort or compromise Ra's replies; but may have limited the extent of/depth of replies.

Ra seemed to tread very carefully when approaching subject matter which could potentially affect those distortions.

I agree with this - NOT to the point of incorrect information - but of a more 'diffident' expression of information which could be interpreted by readers/listeners incorrectly due to individual word interpretation/decade of transmission/etc

and the wish to avoid modifying and/or removing catalyst

the interesting thing is that people are particularly able to interpret on this issue according to their own biases/distortions with this - which may have been Ra's intention... (not infringing is a constant and delicate dance...)

[YinYang]

The above bolded is not what I'm doing.

I'm not trying to justify some agenda I have. I also need no validation. Neither do I have a need to make anyone agree with me.

Please refrain from pointing fingers at someone you obviously know nothing about, and blaming them for words and intentions they don't have.

Judgmental statements like the above make me want to leave this forum, as many before me have done for similar reasons.

Not to mention I think you are wrong. But that's another conversation, and one that was canvassed extensively already. I think it goes without saying, at least if any logic is applied, that channeled material must be influenced by the channel. And the concerns and motives of Ra, may not always be as straightforward as you seem to think.

I enjoy your contribution to the forum, Diana, you have made many posts which made me sit back in contemplation. I apologise for upsetting you.

[Nau7ik]

Questioner: What is the function of homosexuality?

It is a difficulty of your language that we have trouble overcoming in that homosexuality is not understood as a type of sexuality, but is considered to be, in your language, a type of emotionally strong word.

The function of sexuality is to teach service. One is drawn to another of your species and forms a relationship and in that relationship, there are opportunities for service, or disservice, and gradually, as the spirit grows through this association, you begin to learn how to be of service. Were it not for the drive of sexuality, it is likely that there would not be these intense relationships, and therefore these strong stimulants or catalysts to learning. Those who are homosexual have had a personality difficulty which drives then in a sexual way towards their own charge, much like a positive charge being attracted to a positive charge. This is due to confusion between incarnations, the previous incarnation being of one sex, this incarnation being of another. But the function of homosexuality is the function of any type of sexuality: it is to enable a person to form an intense enough relationship that he may learn how to serve and how to love; to love others more than himself, or shall we say, to love others more than his personality, but as much as the Creator.

I don't know anything about electrical fields, or charges but I googled it, same charges repel each other, maybe sexual energy transfers aren't actually available when the basic birth body complex is considered, regardless of the being enspirited in the body complex or it's chosen gender/identity. However if its true it could be an advantage, the end result/goal being said to be exactly the same and that extra catalyst could be in play. More questions than answers really.

Excellent. I think you cut to the heart of the matter; the opportunity for service. I've purified my desires enough to realize what I want. I'm looking for a committed partner to share in this life journey with. Sex is an added bonus but not the focus. It doesn't phase me that the transfer of sexual energy may not be possible. I'm not attached to a specific answer, I want to know the truth! I think high sexual magic is properly done in the male and female configuration.

Because that's been my perspective, that the energetic pole of a male is charged positive. Another male is charged positive. The transfer of physical energy is unnecessary as men have plenty of physical energy. The gateway to intelligent infinity can be opened other ways. In fact high sexual magic is not a common means of making contact with intelligent inifinity, especially here on this planet as sexuality is heavily distorted. It is a rare couple who is making use of the vast potential of sex.

So I would agree cyclops, more questions than answers